1649: Unresolved Grief and Anxiety Relief with Michele Mariscal

Robert Plank 0:00 Stress, burnout, and anxiety may be carrying a hidden name: unresolved grief. After 30 years in health and wellness, Dr. Michelle Mariscow helps people move from emotional chaos toward clarity using heart math and using the grief recovery method. And we're here to talk all about it. We're here on the Marketer of the Day podcast with Robert Plank. We are brought to you by dfypodcast.com, where we handle the editing, publishing, and promotion, so you can focus on the interview. And today's interview is all about that grief isn't limited to death that might come from divorce, career change, lost trust, health challenges, unmet hopes, and so much more. So we're here to navigate these crazy emotions that we might have that maybe hold us back, that we can then use to move us in a more positive path in life. So, Dr. Michelle, how are you?

Michele Mariscal 0:57 Great. I always appreciate being able to speak on these topics because I find in our world today there just seem to be so many more opportunities to have anxiety. So I'm here with the tools.

Robert Plank 1:14 Yeah, and it seems like yeah, there's more opportunity to get access to the the doom scrolling and the news overwhelm, but it's a a tool that we can use, right? We can either let it destroy us and overwhelm us, or use it as a positive force for change. And so, yeah, what's a good jumping off point? Like, what do you see in the world today, especially like maybe what's current and relevant that maybe wasn't true 510, years ago?

Michele Mariscal 1:40 Well, I'll tell you, and this has been a part of my life just within the past three years is devastating effects of natural disaster, and so I live in the part of Florida that well, several parts of Florida have had some devastating hurricanes in 2024. My little town was flooded out, and thankfully my property wasn't damaged. I live up on the fourth floor, but 11 of the buildings in my community, my condo community, flooded out on the first floor. So, so, and and that is happening in so many different ways all over the world with fires, with earthquakes, just a lot more loss of security. That's you know a lot. Yes, the physical loss of belongings we talk about, and those for sure are losses. And then, what settles into us as the intangible losses, and I think is important for people to recognize, is that feeling of loss of safety and loss of security, and how that can lead to anxiety, unchecked anxiety. In the way that I saw it show up for me was I suddenly realized getting into the car to drive I didn't feel safe and that wasn't because suddenly driving wasn't safe it was because my nervous system was so still in in like a trauma I call it the trauma body and I hadn't processed the emotions and settle down my nervous system. Yeah,

Robert Plank 3:26 that's that's deep and that's powerful. That and you always hear about how our mind and body is there to keep us safe, but maybe not necessarily to make us happy, and not necessarily for us to like achieve great things. So there's a lot to navigate there, right? Like kind of overriding your original caveman programming.

Michele Mariscal 3:46 Yeah, and and I think you make a good point that I I always think is important to understand that our body is designed to keep us safe, so those alert systems are really beneficial for us, and when they have been on hyper hyper alert, we want to have the tools to just remind ourselves, "I'm safe in this moment. I'm safe in this moment. And there's there's lots of different ways that we can achieve that. Yeah,

Robert Plank 4:21 and especially with your help, right? With the the tools that you have, such as heart math and others, and this term grief being thrown around, I don't think I. I mean, I think you know I knew the the word, right? Like I, you know, I went to grammar school, but then as far as it being like kind of used in more everyday terms, I hadn't really had it presented until maybe about 10 years ago, and it's it's so simple, isn't it? Because you can like use all all the psycho babble and all the keywords to try to like process this and trauma that, but oh hey, grief! That kind of there's a lot attached to that, and it's like when you put a label on something, you can. Begin to like understand it and like take pick it apart into smaller pieces and begin making steps towards it. And so, as far as like this this term grief, just to make sure we're all on the same page, like what does it even mean? Like what's what's the definition? What is grief all about?

Michele Mariscal 5:17 So there's a couple of definitions that I use out of my work with the grief recovery method, the first one being grief is the normal and natural reaction to loss of any kind. So again, we speak of about over 40 different losses that are common in our lives, both tangible and intangible. And then the second definition that we speak about is grief. Is the any time that we have a change in a routine or pattern or habit that creates a feeling of loss. A good example of that right now at this time of year is when kids are going off to college, and suddenly mom and dad are facing this loss of their identity as mom and dad in the way that it has been with a child in the house. So that can crop up on people, and it's good to just acknowledge that and be with it. Don't push it away. Just recognize, oh, this this is feeling like a loss, and there's some grief associated with that. So it can be the mixed feelings. It can be feelings that feel almost in conflict to one another. Of course, we're so proud of our child going off to college, and oh my goodness, they're not going to be in the house anymore. So you can see how those conflicting feelings that come over any change in the pattern or routine. Yeah.

Robert Plank 6:58 Oh yeah, it's a lot to figure out, and it's it's such a huge problem to try to tackle it on your own without some of this kind of understanding, right? Like even the way that you're describing this, it's like well, there's like our emotions are telling us things, and they might feel kind of really exaggerated, or we might not fully understand them, but I like just some of these scenarios that you're talking about, where it's like, well, I'm feeling all these things in conflict, and and it's like larger than life. But it's like if we can maybe like it's like almost feels like like dream interpretation or something, right? It's like if I decode what these feelings are, it's like okay, well, here's the information, and even though just my you know, my my emotions kind of might might swell up, and if I kind of take it literally, or if I take the catastrophizing the way that it presents itself, like that's not helpful. But if I can maybe like translate or or simplify or kind of like tone down the raw feelings, maybe I can be productive about

Michele Mariscal 8:01 it. Yeah, and both of the modalities that I use, both heart math and the grief recovery method, are very first of all they're both evidence based and have decades of research behind them, so we know that they work. So that's always I I always appreciate that and have and that's when I was looking for tools to use in my own life. I kind of start there because then I know, okay, this is time tested, is research based, and oh my goodness, it's going to help me get in my heart this squishy area of emotion. I'm a thinker. I I want to fix this problem, but in fact, what we need to do is be able to move down into our heart and get our heart and brain connected. And both of these modalities are are very I call them templates. There's stepwise action steps that you can take that move you through processing emotions, and that's really when I think about my own life and and how there was so much grief at one point that I wanted to leave the planet, and I was 15. How can you have that much grief in your life? But the problem was, I didn't know it was grief. I didn't know I was grieving. I had been in a military family, and we moved 10 times by that time. And so the constant leaving friends, leaving schools, leaving churches, leaving homes, leaving all my belongings mostly. I got a pillowcase full each time. No one ever took me by the hand and said, "Oh, honey, I know this this is a loss, and let's you know let's see what we can do with those feelings. And especially in the military, it is it is really kind of this requirement. To this is what we're doing, and we're moving ahead, and this is where we're moving to. And so these the aftermath of that for me was so profound, and I never realized that was a whole childhood of grieving that I could actually process, and I didn't do that until I found the grief, the grief recovery method. So it was it was a powerful recognition. And again, the heart math work equally as strong at getting us focused in our heart and being able to observe how how am I really feeling? What what am I really feeling? I think one of my greatest success stories was a client who just moved through that whole pandemic time in healthcare and toward nearing the end of it, went out on a stress claim. I mean, I can imagine. And her working with me just eight to 10 weeks allowed her to not only go back to work and feel very grounded and successful, and being able to move through the day, managing what was coming up, and the other sort of the side benefits of doing these kind of process pieces is that very often relationships have been fractured, and in her family, she had a couple of relationships that improved profoundly for her. Also, so yeah, when we're able to get into our heart and have then the tools to to move through things. It's very efficient.

Robert Plank 12:05 Of course, it's reassuring that there is a science to it. That it's something that we can train ourselves to do. We we can like learn this, and with the the goal of processing the emotions and getting out on the other side. And so, as far as the like this this process, the grief recovery method, like you kind of told us some of what is involved, and like there's like a number of weeks, but like, what's it all about? Like, is there a way to like explain in in simple terms like what the method

Michele Mariscal 12:37 is? Sure. So we actually call it a psychoeducational program with therapeutic benefits, and so the first part of the method. So it's typically eight weeks, seven weeks if you work privately, eight weeks in groups, and that first part is really an opportunity to learn about grief, grief in our culture. So we look at what we just talked about, the definitions of grief, what makes it hard to grieve, and what are the myths and some of the misinformation around grief. And a lot of times, that really brings aha's for people to feel they start feeling safe and realizing, oh, so this actually is normal and natural. So we normalize it first, and then the method part of it are the action steps that people can take, and they're learning a template, a set of tools that they can use for the rest of their life to process a like, if there is a one significant loss that they want to work on, we start there, and they learn the template and action steps to complete their relationship to the pain. And one of the things I often hear from grievers is that really a part of why they don't step into processing their grief is that they have a feeling that they're going to forget their person. They're going to forget their loved one. They don't want to. So much in our culture, we have the sense of, in their terrible words, we need to get over and move on, and those are those are words that are scary because this is this is my loved one. I will never forget my loved one. So what we're able to do is give people the steps to finish the and work with the relationship to the pain, so that the relationship to your loved one is now intact in a way that, if a sad, for instance, my little brother died 34 years ago, and just a couple weeks ago, I had a memory again come up for. Particular reason because I was having a birthday and and sometimes I just miss him so I'm able to be with that and process it and not go open a bottle of wine and drink that feeling away I'm really able to stay present to oh man it is this this kind of hurts I wish he was still here, like be able to feel it. Sometimes crying, you know, depending on the emotion. But the point is, once you're able to go through and have this tool set, you're not going back into maybe addictive ways in which you tried to just stuff that emotion down, you feel safe experiencing the emotion and and processing it. Yeah,

Robert Plank 15:51 that's great. So having a better relationship with that memory, it's still not you know not maybe pleasant, but doesn't lead to some negative outcomes for you there, and so you you say that there's there's like myths about grief, and you've helped different people and given them different perspectives. Is there anything that's like surprised you about your journey? Like anything that was like new information for you about grief, or just you know what what kind of woke you up?

Michele Mariscal 16:22 Yeah, for me. Well, first of all, in in my own journey with grief, I think realizing what things in my life have actually been significant losses, like I was telling you about my childhood, being able to realize that that I was grieving. It's just nobody told me that. So to to I think that's one of the big eye openers when people go through this this coursework is oh right grief isn't just when someone dies in my life or when I get divorced or lose a very significant relationship. It's all these other things too. So that that is very eye opening. Just just that. And then a couple of the myths I think that people begin to really relate to because we're all. I I mean I'm I'm like this. I'm not sure I would have a Ph.D. if I weren't operating in the midst of stay busy, that was my way. Like I'll just do some more school. I'll just have three jobs and the like. And so, to my detriment, I stayed busy. I was very. I I gained levels of success here and there and everywhere, but in my heart I was suffering, and so, so that's a big one I think because in you know in the world I I work a lot with busy professionals and that that is kind of it we you know we put our game face on when we walk in the door to work and leave our emotions at the door, and really we need to ask ourselves when when not if when is that going to affect my health because it will. And time heals is the other one. I think that people really become aware of that-that's really not true at all. This is settling in. And if you speak to body workers, individuals who do body work, they tell me all the time, and I've had my own experience when someone has been working on my knee, and I'll just burst out In tears, so we store these emotions in our body in different ways. So people begin to realize the the level of our emotional health at all levels of the rest of their health. Their mental ability to be clear thinking. That's a big one. Yeah,

Robert Plank 19:05 and I feel like the the common thread I'm getting from our conversation is how important the self awareness is. Right, like you say, we have to we have to push ourselves. Right, we have to make the time to do all these things. But then when it stops working, then maybe we should take alert of that and take a break, or do something new, or apply some of these techniques, as opposed to just like burying the feeling, as you say, like destructive behaviors, drinking it away, ignoring it, like that. None of that is is helpful, and so it helps to just get an education about this. And so you've you've helped these high achievers, these entrepreneurs, these people to like make their emotions work for them and deal with grief. And there's so much more we could discuss, but it's a podcast. So what we want to do is get people interested, thirsty, excited, and wanting to know more about you. But you're still the star of the show, so I'm curious about if there might be in the. Final minutes of our discussion, a missing question that I should be asking you. I just don't know to ask you. So, what do you think? What might be our missing question?

Michele Mariscal 20:10 Well, I think everyone should be asking themselves: Is there unresolved grief in my life, and I just haven't realized it. And the reason I think that's a missing question is because 100% of us are grievers, and so in asking that question, you know, you can answer it if you are because for sure I call grief recovery of buffet, and maybe you have been someone who has had a lot of tools. Again, lots of different ways: art therapy, body work, lots of different ways. But by and large, I find people people don't realize some of what is going on for them is related to earlier losses in life that they thought were completed, and you know they may not have an acute presentation in their emotional life at the moment. But again, if they look back and realize they just kind of skipped over it and never did process those emotions. It very likely is showing up in other patterns that they just don't realize.

Robert Plank 21:32 Ooh, that's huge. That's deep. So things might be triggering me, or I might be acting in a way that's counter to my self-interest, just because I hadn't processed that other, you know, past event, and so I was really intrigued and curious earlier when you said like there's there's all these like subcategories of grief and all these ways that we like the 40 different ways it might manifest, and I'm sure that people are saying, well, I need some next steps now that I my curiosity is piqued a little bit about grief and all that it's attached to. I want to find out more about Miss Michelle, the the woman, the myth, the legend. And so, what are some next steps here? How can someone find out more about their grief journey? Find out more about you, their websites. Where should we go?

Michele Mariscal 22:16 michellemariscal.com. If you go onto my website, I actually have two different downloads. One of them is if you feel like you're in emotional overwhelm, I have a checklist that you can download there, and it it helps you recognize mental and emotional, physical, behavioral patterns. And the other free download is six clues that you may have unresolved grief, and I do have several blog posts out there that may be helpful around different topics of grief, grief in the workplace, but also maybe around the holidays. So yeah, take a look at the blog page as well. Yeah. All

Robert Plank 23:00 right. So that is MichelleMariscal.com. That's Michelle with 1l, last name M A R I S C A L.com, and you're doing everything right for the good old AI SEO, aren't you? They say, well, who's this expert on grief? And you have all these freebies, have the blog posts. So if you want to get educated about navigating these emotional tides, and Michelle has figured out a lot, but it's not all made up, right? Everything she's been telling us has been backed by science. So you can go to michellemariscal.com and get those six clues to know if you have unresolved grief, and you can click around, get educated, check out those other blog posts. She says there's the myths about grief, and even so much more that you can find to kind of overcome those those myths, those misconceptions about grief, and and make some progress, right? And just and figure out what can be done. And like there's there's so many just interesting subtopics here, right? There's like the postpartum grief. There was pet loss, and so it seems ridiculous to try to just go it alone or leave it to random chance because your your your mind kind of sometimes plays tricks on you. So why not learn the the proven techniques and strategies that have helped others that you can then use to help yourself out because life is too short, right? It's no, there's no point in keeping yourself miserable for all these years. You have that that old brother passed away, or old friend, or family member, whatever. And if you those bad memories keep coming back and affecting your present day, that's no way to live. There are things that you can do to help yourself, and the first step to doing that is by going to michellemariscal.com and filling out a form there, and you can even book a free consultation with Miss Michelle herself, and just make some progress on this. And so, before I let you go, Miss Michelle, it's time for the scary part of the podcast, where I try to stump you, I try to put you on the spot. By asking about a fun or interesting quote or lesson that has served you, so what comes to mind as far as a fun or interesting quote or lesson?

Michele Mariscal 25:08 Fun or interesting quote or lesson? Well, an interesting lesson in in my life happened many years ago when I was 28, and it's a book, and it's a book I've read over several times. It's the road less traveled, and I think it was the first time that I learned about and really felt in my bones self responsibility. Like my life is about the choices I make, and I'm self responsible, and it all of that kind of plays into what you talked about, where the really the most important point is awareness and self-awareness. So that has served me all these years.

Robert Plank 25:52 Very nice. The road less traveled. Who writes that?

Michele Mariscal 25:54 Scott M. Peck. He's a psychiatrist who was working with Vietnam. That's quite extensively. Yeah,

Robert Plank 26:04 very good. We'll have the the link to that underneath this podcast. That way, you can find it on Amazon and also all those resources from Miss Michelle Mariscal. I'm so grateful that you stopped by today, Miss Michelle, and told us what we need to know because, as you said, 100 of us are grievers, so we need to know about these techniques. So, thank you for being here and sharing those.

Michele Mariscal 26:25 Thank you, Robert, and thank you, everyone. I look forward to hearing from you.