1650: AI Leadership and Decision Speed for Business with Jason M. Riggs

Robert Plank 0:00 Jason M. Riggs is here to talk to us about AI. He's been an AI business leader with over 25 years of experience building and scaling products across software, hardware, cloud, and applied AI. And mr. Jason and I were just talking before we hit the record button about how execution is a lot easier to come by than even a couple years ago. It's really cheap, and that human judgment layer, especially taking place outside of AI, is where we really have to adapt, right? Really have to move faster and do things better. And he has an amazing book called "The Mach 10 PM and the Mach 10 Leader: AI native leadership at decision speed. So we are going to be chatting about so many things: what's possible with AI, what Jason M. Riggs does with AI in his nine to five, and to speak to those executives, founders, product leaders, operators, managers, consultants, and transformation leaders who are kind of in the driver's seat here, changing how these fast decisions get made, how work gets done, and consequences arrive. So, Mr. Jason M. Riggs, how the heck are you today?

Jason Riggs 1:11 I'm doing well. Thank you very much for having me on, Robert. Appreciate it.

Robert Plank 1:14 Appreciate you as well. And so, yeah, AI-it's taken over everything, and it feels like nuclear weapons, right? How they have all these countries in the world, and they could all fight with each other, and then you know five or seven countries are like, hey, now we have the nukes, now we're in charge, and it kind of upends the whole entire world. So now it's like everyone now has has nuclear weapons, and we have to kind of like adjust and adapt. And some people will will use it and kind of destroy themselves, and kind of not have a a good business path, and others will put it for the right use. So I'm excited to hear about your take on it and figure out how we can just like use these amazing tools in our lives and our businesses.

Jason Riggs 1:51 Yeah, it's a really good point. AI is probably the most powerful enabling technology that any of us have seen since you know the internet sort of made its its presence known. You know, back in the '90s, it really does enable us to leverage the intelligence and the knowledge of the world to create things much more quickly, and maybe even things we couldn't have created even a few years ago. I mean, I know I built my share of web pages with it, and even apps, and you know, written stuff in Python and stuff I could have definitely never imagined doing, even just a few years ago, so you know, I think it's interesting, and AI is kind of the current, I think, you know, accelerator in the mix, if you will, when it comes to execution. But it's not the only one now, and it won't be the only one in the future. There'll be others, and that's really the premise of the new book, The Mach 10 Leaders, just talking about how when decision time gets you know shorter because execution is easier. How do you then modify your decision system so that you can move faster to accommodate the faster execution? Because you and I could build all kinds of stuff all day long, but are we building the right stuff? Does it get you know if we're in a corporate environment, does it get approved by the CFO? Do we have to wait for alignment meetings? Do we have to you know have this coordination tax? I call it. So I think that that's really the premise of the book, and I think that's really an important concept, regardless of whether or not AI is that accelerator.

Robert Plank 3:07 Ooh, interesting. So do you think before AI, do you think there was some kind of like subconscious judging going on that we maybe took for granted, like when it took you know months to build an app or to build a software product versus now we can have it happen really quickly. It's like I wonder if there was some like subconscious planning or decision making that was there that was necessary that now we just kind of skip over.

Jason Riggs 3:34 Yeah, I think absolutely. I think there was definitely sort of a built-in structure. Like everyone knew that you know apps or or websites or anything really on the technical side takes a certain amount of time to create. So you had you definitely wanted to go in with a with a fully robust business model upfront, but you had time to then sort of question things as it progressed. You had more maybe customer feedback time. You had more just time in general to get you know to the right decision along the way, so you had what I would say are different decision milestones or points. Now you can build those things and execute so quickly that you have to kind of rethink that whole process that most of us have come up in. You know, it's just I think we're used to these approval meetings, and we all got to get aligned, and nobody wants to make a decision because if you make a decision, you're accountable, and you have sort of this group accountability, which means nobody's accountable. Now it's important to really have ownership and accountability and decision making be the most important part of the process. But not only just decision making, but figuring out ways that you can execute those decisions more quickly. And some of that does involve using AI. Like I can pull up a whole addressable market analysis of any product I want or any service I want, just to see how many customers might be out there in the world, and that was something that you know used to take. It's not several days, sometimes weeks, depending on how in depth it was. So you know, again, that all that information is very accessible and very and comes very quickly. So you know, it's just a matter of like how do we then handle that from a decision.

Robert Plank 5:01 Ooh, interesting. And I, you wonder if in the future websites won't exist, or we'll just interact with our AI, which will then interact with the website, right? It's like they talk about how because of like like Star Trek, we have flip phones and tablets and like all these technologies, and you know on Star Trek they don't say, "Oh, I'll go to this website and I'll look this up. They just like ask the computer and just you know figures it out for them. So you wonder if that's where it will be headed. And you know, with AI, the big joke of it is like it just it gives you so much stuff, right? You ask to do like this kind of research, like you're mentioning, and it gives you like 20 pages. And when people like write full books with AI or write LinkedIn posts with AI or make the AI slop the content, it's like the people even making it didn't read it or look at it, and then the people like who are supposed to watch it don't even watch it. So then it's like, then who was it really for? And then you get into like dead internet theory. It becomes a whole kind of a a bad a bad outcome that we want to fight, don't we? And I know that that you know you're not just making this stuff up. You work in real life with AI, right? You work with like AI order taking, and I I don't think I've come across like AI voices in a drive-through, or maybe it's so good I haven't even noticed. So I'm I'm curious I'm fascinated about how the like the AI order taking is working in the real world.

Jason Riggs 6:27 Yeah, so it's interesting. So the first version of AI order taking was really human in the loop assisted. So you had a lot of AI assisted really products out there, and a lot of them started off as phone answering services. So it was easy because the sound profile is pretty consistent on a phone, and you could take these orders, and you could have humans sort of correct the orders as they went. And that really was, I think, from an operational efficiency perspective, not great because you have humans that have to then interpret those things, and then you also have cost associated with those humans. So it was not very cost effective. It also wasn't very accurate. It didn't learn on its own like AI should, and now you're getting into the Gen Two version of this product, which is AI-native, which is very different, right? It's really using those AI models, those LLMs, to actually generate the answers and make sure you've got the right information feeding it, menu data and so forth from these QSR establishments. And it sounds like an easy problem space on paper. I think most people go like, "What? You go up and you order a hamburger, and it gives you a hamburger. Big deal, right? But it really is complex. Every brand has different, you know, unique words for them. Every brand has different unique modifiers, different ways that they, you know, will will serve things in combos and so forth. And then there's coupons and limited time offers, and it really gets complex. And then injecting all of that into a point of sale is also a completely other facet of the whole thing that also is complex because it has to be injected correctly into the point of sale and actually work to you know process that order. So so that's the space I work in, and I have seen AI actually you know a while back it got to the point where you know you put something in let's say Claude Code or something like that, and it gives you this this result, and maybe even injects it directly into some sort of work ticket. And then the people reading it, it wasn't written in English; it was written in what I would call AI English or Clodlish. Sometimes I call it, and then you would have to almost put it back into AI to figure out what it was asking, because it's like there's a question buried in there somewhere. I'm just not sure what it is. So you know, I think there was at one point there was a thought that like, hey, we could just really automate this process. We don't really need a lot of human judgment here. This thing can sort of figure it out itself and then inject the code almost directly into what we're doing. Again, I don't think that was an intentional outcome. I think there were gatekeepers along the way, but I do think there is a peril there without human judgment, at least in terms of how you make the product. Now, having said that, once the product's out in the wild, there's no reason why you need a human in the loop at that point, because that's the whole point. Is you've created this model that should be able to interpret and understand and process everything correctly. But but there are points where you're actually building the product where you do have to understand the customer. You have to understand things they will and won't accept. It definitely makes recommendations that it thinks you made a mistake, maybe at times, like oh, you shouldn't have automatically upsold this thing or what have you. But actually, that is what the brand wants, and so it is an automatable. Like you really do need the human judgment to make sure you're building the right thing and you're solving the right problems the right way. And I have seen it go off the rails, but we got it reined in very quickly. But it really can if you let it go, you know I find it it's wrong quite a lot actually. When you just talk about raw LLMs, they really don't care if you wasted money because they suggested you invest in a stock, or if you're spending your entire day chasing down some minute thing that could have been easily accomplished in some other process. You know they don't care about your time, they don't care about your money, and so you really have to be cognizant of what you have there, and and and you know, again, use your own judgment.

Robert Plank 9:44 And it really feels like it's like kind of like minimizing the percentage of wrongness, and like kind of like inching it closer and closer, and and getting it there. And you mentioned about human judgment, and what that makes me think of is like a lot of when when I use. AI and like this fight you're mentioning about avoiding the like the runaway logic is I'll be like well you know I'm writing a book and I've written the book and I need a better title than what I have so give me 10 choices well I don't like any of those give me 10 more well I like that one give me 20 more or I like that other one and it's like I I'm worried about maybe my decision muscle atrophying because I'm fighting all the the wave of AI. So I'm like, okay, well, I'm always I'm always making sure that I I think because I don't want to just become somehow stupider with what's in front of us. And and you know sometimes we see these. I'm seeing a lot more of these like web pages where it like it has that AI look, right? The same way the AI images have the look in these web pages. I'm like, I can barely. I know it's in English, but I can barely real. I guess I get bored looking at it because it's like made like by AI for AI. It feels like. And so, how does all this relate to maybe like the solutions out there? Because you have you know the Mach 10 leader, and you see what's happening and what's coming. So, like, what should we be on the lookout for as far as just like the future and using this tool right?

Jason Riggs 11:10 Yeah, I mean, it's those are great observations, and I know in the early days of AI, you could always identify it in a in a LinkedIn post, which I think is like 80% AI now. It feels like everyone thinks they're a thought leader in the LinkedIn in the theater. I guess I would call it. And there's a lot of m dashes. They don't use a lot of contractions. The paragraphs are all the same length. There's a lot to it in terms of like the sameness of the thinking and the output, which is really interesting because you're right. Like I think that stuff does tend to sort of culminate in a common theory, common thinking, without anyone really doing their own thinking, and I think that's a really, really good point. Is you and I have grown up in an age where we didn't have AI to do the thinking for us, and I feel like the new generation maybe is going to become more dependent on that. And so I think it's going to take some deliberate effort on the part of everyone that's maybe got kids today to make sure that they aren't critical thinkers because critical thinking is a really important human skill. And even then, if you use AI again, I always question the results. A lot of times, if I'm looking for you know, like you said, a title or a you know a paragraph rewrite or something, you know, I'll rewrite it and run it through maybe five different models. Like I'll use them all and I'll actually kind of pit them against each other, and this one said that. Why are you saying this? And and I'll eventually distill it into something that I then put in front of humans to say, does this still resonate with you? Because AI again doesn't care if it does or doesn't resonate. It can sometimes gives you the picture perfect, you know, scholastic answer. But in the in the real world where humans actually have to consume it and read it and understand it. It's not always the best answer, you know. So I think, you know, again, it just kind of goes back to that. Don't let your human judgment atrophy, because it will. The less time you spend thinking, you know, the less I think you get really good at thinking. And you know, it also is one of those things where, even if you're using AI as an enabling technology, it should never become the only thing you use to create or or really drive anything in your life. If it's a budget, you know, personal budget, whatever it is, you have to question it. And and I believe me, I've caught it being wrong more times than I care to admit. When I push back on it and go, "You just said this, you know, two answers ago. Why are you changing your position? Oh, good call out. You know, it does that all the time. That's on me, but it doesn't really care because there's no consequence for it. Yeah, I think people really need to start thinking that way.

Robert Plank 13:28 Yeah, yeah. That's that's kind of. I I never even a few years ago before AI, I never imagined that we'd have this tool that like it wants to make you happy, and then if you tell it, hey, try again with that; it'll change a wrong answer to a right answer. Or if you say like, "Well, if you don't answer this correctly, you're fired, or "I'll find you $10,000, somehow that makes it work harder to like pursue the truth versus pleasing you. And it's like, just what a weird. And it's and it's not even alive. It's not even sentient, but it still like has these weird goofy behaviors. And and so it's like you know what a time to be alive and you have this this job in AI and you have all this experience but you also kind of go above and beyond don't you have these extracurriculars you have your book and you appear on podcast and so what's that all about like you could be content with just your job but you do other things so like what's what started that and why do you kind of pursue the extracurriculars?

Jason Riggs 14:26 That's a good question. I think for me, you know, especially when I was, yeah, I'd spent a lot of my time, most of my career, 25 years in product management. I just realized that there wasn't just sort of a simple book for saying, "Hey, I understand AI. I don't necessarily need to build out a whole army of agents to do all my work for me, but I know it can make my my day to day I think more efficient. It can increase my velocity of output. It can increase the quality of my output. So I just kind of was wondering like, what's a simple way to to use it without necessarily getting deep in the technical ins and outs of LLMs and all that stuff? And so to me, that manual just didn't really exist, at least for. Managers, and it was a passion that I just said, you know, I wish I had this book a few years ago because it would have, I think, really given me a good, you know, sort of position in the space, and also given me the ability to use these tools that are at our disposal. So that was the reason I wrote the first book, and then I think the second book, for me, it was like, okay, great, I'm moving really quickly at the product management level, but I've got this corporate decision structure that's not keeping pace. So what's the point, right? Like you and I could put something together super quickly at the execution slash builder level, but if you can't get it through the approval loops and actually bring it to market because finance hasn't signed off on something, or you know some some CFO or CEO or whatever has to have you know a round of meetings to discuss it, then it really makes the bottom layer pointless, and that's why I wrote the second book. And now, if you actually ask me why it's built out to this whole ecosystem with a website and podcast and all this other stuff, I guess that's just the product manager in me. Like I couldn't imagine just launching a book and then being like, "Okay, I did my vanity project with this book. I hope it does okay. So for me, it's about like okay, now I have to figure out you know Amazon ads, and now I have to figure out organic search, and like that's just how I'm wired. Like I actually liked learning all this stuff along the way and solving all these what I would consider for me at the time were problems I didn't have a lot of knowledge in, and so I learned a bunch about publishing, ISBN numbers, you know Amazon algorithms, and so every time I learned something, I wanted to apply it, and that's why I built out really what is I would say is a whole platform slash ecosystem around the book. Really, that started off as a passion project.

Robert Plank 16:30 Oh, nice! Well, you're living life correctly, doing business correctly, and I think you've probably seen that it's so common for people to just say, "Hey, Amazon, here's my book. Where's my sales? Where's my money, please? And they they wonder like what happened, and then they just kind of they'll either like kind of give up or they'll just like move on to the next book and they'll just keep cranking them out without like you said the ecosystem, the infrastructure in place, or kind of like focusing on what's fun or what's easy. Like I just I'll make some more of those LinkedIn posts, and it's like well you have to actually like solve the problem and as you put it like you solve the problem and it requires like learning and then that opens up new problems but that's how you like get a multi-step project finished and completed and the I think the the biggest like the the secret hiding in plain sight with AI that I kind of I remember when I forget it on a weekly basis is that you can just ask AI like to help you with what you're doing and like you say you still have to like apply judgment but if you if you say hey well I want to get more visibility on on what I do right want to get more speaking gigs want to get a a better a paying job better position but want to have a book then like what else will this entail? And if you say, "How do I format? How do I do Amazon ads? Like, it'll help you. It'll recommend you solutions. It'll help you decide between the solutions. Like, and it's all there for you. It's like we just have to apply it properly. And so, I just, I'm, I'm telling you, Jason. Every single week, I forget that lesson and I remember it again that it can actually help you with whatever plan you have. You don't have to add complexity. You can use it to simplify. Right? Answer your LinkedIn messages like by pasting in like, hey, here's what I usually reply. Here's the new messages. Here's what my goal is. How do I approach this? Like it's all there, but we have to like actually think, as you're saying. What a concept, right?

Jason Riggs 18:22 Yeah, and and honestly, AI was my was definitely my my partner in figuring out the indie publishing world. I mean, it's really complicated. Like, I don't know if people understand if you if you want to do something more than just publish a book on Amazon, which, by the way, even that has its own share of challenges. You know, you got to have it formatted correctly and all the different checks and balances they do, and all the different search terms you can use within Amazon. But it's really complicated, like in terms of understanding, you know, Google Ads and Amazon Ads, and and even organic search. And and how do I even lay out the book? By the way, what are some good tools I can use as an independent author to just lay out my book so it looks like a book, and I can make sure the images look correct, and and it would recommend you know items for that, and I would compare the cost and which one was the most cost effective. And I mean, I hammered a lot of AI questions throughout that process, and it helped me. I mean, there's no way I could have done most of it. In fact, even my website, I pretty much rebuilt using AI, saying, "Hey, I wanted, I want more of this feel. I need these images inserted. Like, what's the best way to do this? What do I need to optimize? So it's constantly there to essentially take a learning curve. That, quite honestly, if you think about, I don't want to go into like self congratulations too much, but if you think about all the things I learned that I executed along the way, that was probably like 10 jobs in terms of writing, editing, laying it out, getting cover art, like you know standing up a website, getting the search terms out there, you know getting a presence in all these different places. That was you know publicity. It helped me write press releases, like all that stuff was a number of jobs rolled into sort of one experience. And the book's been out just about a year now, a little less than a year. Actually, yeah, a little less than a year. And I think I've. Actually, been able to make amazing traction just in general because of the knowledge I was able to acquire from AI and then apply that. And to your point, have new questions that would open up. Okay, now Google Ads has suspended me for some reason. I have no idea why, and it was you know was some stupid reason. And then it helped me sort of word the answer, the the appeal to get out of that. And you know, I'm just saying it's like it's insane if you leverage it specifically for a purpose and you insert judgment along the way, how you can take these learning curves and really just flatten them to almost nothing, and and ask it questions as you go. And I've I've taken pictures of plumbing stuff in my house and said, "What kind of valve is this? I'm trying to find it. It'll tell you, and I'm still constantly telling my wife the same thing. You know, I'm like, just ask, you know, do a quick query in in ChatGPT or whatever, and just see what comes back. And it's amazing. Again, you have to use your judgment because the answer isn't always right. It's not always even the correct answer to the correct question, but it's insane. Like the amount of knowledge you can derive from it. But again, it should never be the only thinking you do. It should never be the only pressure testing you do on price models or any of that kind of stuff. It should just be considered an enabling technology and a resource, as are people, as are everything else that you have access to the network. You know, all that stuff should it should just be considered another resource in your in your toolbox.

Robert Plank 21:14 Yeah, like it was helpful once when a friend when it was like I guess new new in the mainstream, and a friend told me it's like a calculator for language. I'm like, hey, that's such a helpful analogy because I'm like, okay, well, you know, I have have have a calculator sitting on the desk, so to speak, right? Or like a belters on the phone. So we, it's something you push buttons and then you have the inputs and the outputs. I was like, okay, that that makes sense. It's not this magic box. It might feel like it, but it's just another tool that we can use and have to use it properly. And and at some point, I feel like I'm the bottleneck, right? Because I'm like, well, I I take the picture, or I take the screenshot, or I talk into it long enough to have or have it make sense, and I go back and forth. And so it's like, yeah, there's a lot to figure out, and it's a crazy world. But we have guys like you and your your thought leadership, to use that term, and your books to help us get there. And so, with all this craziness that's out there and that you've accomplished that we've discussed, it's in these final few minutes of our conversation. Do you think there might be a missing question about you, this company you work for, AI, anything-a missing question in our conversation that I should be asking you. I just don't know what to ask you.

Jason Riggs 22:29 That is actually that's a good question. The missing question question is a good question. I guess I would, I would respond with, I think you know when as we look to the future and we think about AI becoming increasingly intelligent. I think again, increasing dependency on it could generate a number of problems. Really, and that's one of the things. Even at the AI company I work at, one of the questions that you could ask is, "What do successful AI companies do best? And I guess I can rhetorically ask it because I have an answer. And so the answer is use less AI because AI is a cost component that you can't control in a business model. And as they introduce new models, they deprecate the old ones, so seemingly the price point doesn't doesn't go down. If anything, it'll probably go up at some point because data center scarcity and all that other stuff. So you want to reduce your dependency on that third party variable, and I think that's true just in life in general. Like use it in a way that's meaningful and with intent, but don't use it to replace thinking, judgment, all that stuff. You know, I just think it's it's so important, especially as we evolve with it. And I think there was a thought not too long ago that it would replace a lot of jobs and was going to everyone would be out of a job because AI is doing their jobs. And I think that quickly has changed back to it makes sense in some cases, but I've actually done a whole analysis on is it worth replacing a human with some kind of AI product? And it's not the the cost analysis, especially based on the current cost of tokens and so forth. You'd be surprised it doesn't pan out as often as people think it does. And now you're seeing a lot of big companies even realizing that and bringing humans back in the loop because without judgment, it's just like a runaway train. You know, it's going to take you down whatever path it wants to, and if you're not there to watch it, that path could propagate throughout all your systems, and you could end up six months from now in a really bad spot if you don't manage it correctly.

Robert Plank 24:14 But if it's augmenting an existing job, it makes a lot more sense, right? You have a human attorney, but they also have this tool at their disposal. Or like when you see the the articles about like Waymo or the self driving cars, when like they've they've tested it like I don't know how many like millions of miles, and it still is kind of not quite yet there. So it's like some of these seems like a lot of these problems that are out there, and even that you've discussed, are maybe like deceptively simple, right? And you almost feel dumb because you're like, "Well, I can't make this web page. I can't publish this book. It seems so simple. And it's like there's that middle space, isn't there, between well, I have this idea and it's just in my head and it seems so simple, and then I want to just jump to the end where it's it's out there and it's it's simple again. Because I've accomplished it, but in the meantime, you know, as you say, one little issue can derail you, right? Amazon ads got rejected, can't figure out formatting, and so it just seems like there's there's all these kind of sub skills that are needed, aren't there? There's the the curiosity factor, there's the patience, there's the problem solving, the project management, and so it's like, yeah, it's it's it's quite quite quite a lot more than maybe we we thought we were in for, right? When we thought AI could solve things, or putting out a book is so easy. Well, maybe sometimes there's there's more to be figured out.

Jason Riggs 25:33 Yeah, absolutely. I think you nailed it. And and yeah, I mean, you know, again, I think it's applying. It's like any technology, any enabling technology, you apply it to the right problem with intent, and accept it for what it is. It's not perfect. It's not for every problem. I actually worked at a company not too long ago where the CEO is constantly imploring everyone in the company to use more AI and come up with creative reasons for using AI, and that used to drive me crazy because that's like saying, "Here's a solution. Go find some problems. You should always think about it the other way, especially from a product management standpoint. You find a market problem, and then you find a solution. Well, first you figure out if it's even worth solving that problem, because not all problems are worth it. And then you you map that to a solution. And I would tell my team start with that. And if a solution is AI, but there's other solutions, we should look at those too. And I think that's really the way you have to trade it just in general day to day.

Robert Plank 26:22 Yeah, instead of just slap some AI on it, like there was the what Jensen Huang, the Nvidia CEO. There there was he was at he was speaking at something maybe like a year ago, and he said, you know, every company out there should use more AI, and all these people were sharing it like it was some big revelation. And one of the comments somewhere said, "This is like if the CEO of Frito Lay said you should eat more potato chips. Like it's like when you're saying just use more AI just because it's something I've heard. Like it just it seems really backwards. And so yeah, it's like use it for to actually solve a problem and improve what you do, not just because it's the fun thing. And so if we're trying to navigate this, and we you have your website and your book, I mean, what are some next steps if we're fascinated and curious by what you have to offer? How do we find out more about you?

Jason Riggs 27:10 Yeah, so I do have a website. It's mach10pm.com. Actually, you know, around my first book, even though I have a second book now, so I think mach 10 leader actually maps to that as well, so it's pretty easy to remember, and and and I have all kinds of resources on there. There's a whole blog. I've written a ton of blog articles, if you will, about all these concepts from both books, actually. So you can kind of get a feel for it. It's all free. I do have a newsletter where people can subscribe, and I don't I don't spam out newsletter stuff all the time. I send out one every couple of weeks, and I always have substantive content in it, and maybe just some information about book releases and stuff. But it's pretty pretty low key, and I try to make it worth people's time because I get a lot of newsletters and emails. So so there's that, and then I like I said, I've got various podcasts out there, and you know you can go to my Amazon page, obviously, there's plenty of information there, not only about me as an author, but also the books themselves and the series. Actually, you know, as far as like what the series is trying to accomplish. So, those are probably the best paths to learn more.

Robert Plank 28:11 Very cool. So that is mach10pm.com, and that is the hub where you can find out about the present and even the future books, right? So there's the Mach 10 Leader, Mach 10 PM. There's that newsletter that you mentioned, and there's the different podcasts that you're on. So that way we can stay up to date about Mr. Jason M. Riggs, who writes for Builders and Leaders, award-winning author. He's launched category defining products. He hosts the True Velocity podcast focused on judgment, clarity, and decision making. Decision making rather in high velocity environments. So mach10pm.com is that hub to find out about this mach 10 leadership series and get a handle on the future and what we need to do as far as AI leadership operating system practical operating model for product leaders and so much more. So mach10pm.com is the place to go. But before I let you go, Mr. Jason M. Riggs, it's time for the scary part of the podcast where I try to stump you. I try to put you on the spot by asking about a fun or interesting quote or lesson that has served you. So, what comes to mind as far as a fun or interesting quote or lesson?

Jason Riggs 29:27 I appreciate the question. I should probably also specify. A lot of people think it's M O C K. It's M A C H, as in like Mach 10 speed. So, just if anyone's looking it up, you know, you've seen Top Gun, you know what I'm talking about. I think for me, one of the things that I've learned through this whole process, because I really thought going into writing the book that it was all about speed, and that speed was important for the sake of speed, because we had all these tools that could make all the things we used to do, even writing requirements or whatever as a product manager, so much faster and. Could really accelerate velocity, and I realized somewhere in that process that speed without clarity just creates chaos. So you're telling everyone to move fast, you're telling everyone to move faster. You've got all these tools to move fast, but if you don't have the clarity and intent to back it up, then you could be driving really quickly into a wall. So speed without clarity creates chaos is something that you know. To me, I think about a lot as I as I write these books because even in the new book, I there's something that I you know I hope I can convey in the book itself, which is the goal isn't speed for the sake of speed, it's decision speed with human judgment. So human judgment to me is such an important part of this whole thing, and I hope it doesn't get lost as we evolve and and work alongside AI. That you know, really, human judgment is what it's all about at the end. And hopefully, everyone resonates with that. And we're still a really important part of this equation. You know, we're not we're not an we're not an anecdotal thing. So don't ever forget that.

Robert Plank 30:57 I like it. That's powerful. We're not obsolete and clarity or no speed without clarity creates chaos. Is that right?

Jason Riggs 31:04 That's correct, yeah.

Robert Plank 31:06 Well, let's think about that as we head to mach 10 p.m. As we said, it's mach like Top Gun M A C H 1 0 p m.com to check out these books. And thank you, Mr. Jason M Riggs, for taking the time, being very helpful. I'm very grateful that you showed up and we had this fun conversation, so thank you.

Jason Riggs 31:24 Thank you for having me on, Robert. I really enjoyed it as well. Appreciate it.