1655: Healing After Abuse and Betrayal with Margaret Mearns-Bass

Robert Plank 0:00 We are here, and we are chatting with Margaret Mearns Bass, who faced the trauma of childhood abuse and the heartbreak of betrayal, yet found healing through God's grace. And she explains it in *Broken Forgiveness* and *The Journey to Reconciliation* And it's a book and a message of healing for anyone longing to rise above the painful past and embrace the transforming power of God's love, so Maggie, how are you?

Margaret Mearns-Bass 0:30 I'm doing just fine, looking forward to our interview.

Robert Plank 0:35 I am as well. So, what are you all about, and what's this book about?

Margaret Mearns-Bass 0:39 What this book? This book actually is about the two most important men in my life who broke my heart and let me down: my father and my husband, and how God was able to rescue me from the pain that I've carried for a long, long time.

Robert Plank 1:02 Oh wow! Well, what happened?

Margaret Mearns-Bass 1:04 What happened in my childhood? Since I was three years old, I was sexually abused by my father for 14 years until I joined the Royal Air Force to get away from home. I was the eldest of 11 children, and I didn't want to report him because I didn't want my siblings to end up in foster homes. Then, in the in the Royal Air Force, I met my husband, got married, and after seven or eight years, unfortunately, there was a betrayal in our marriage, which brought all my pain back again.

Robert Plank 1:42 Oh no!

Margaret Mearns-Bass 1:43 And actually, one of the key things from the book is it can take one to forgive, but it takes two to reconcile. Meaning that we have neglected to teach people how to seek forgiveness, we only teach them how to forgive. I've done it myself as a pastor, but it is so important to have those two parts before there can be genuine reconciliation. And in the middle of the book, I do have several chapters only on forgiveness, so that I could share this with people to make them understand. Just because you've forgiven someone doesn't mean everything is going to be fine. But if the other person with brokenness asks for forgiveness, then there can be reconciliation, and I show this in my story because although I had written and talked to my father about forgiveness, he never offered his forgiveness. So there really wasn't a true reconciliation. There was a very shallow, shallow relationship. But over the years, my husband became broken and shared genuine forgiveness with me. In fact, he's written a chapter in the book called "When a Man Hurts a Woman, and that showed me his genuine, genuine forgiveness because there's such a thing as cheap seeking forgiveness. Like when you say to someone, "I'm sorry for everything. What is everything? Whatever has to be, it's accountable. Yes, not specific enough. Yeah, but you should be accountable because that will help heal the wound of the person you have hurt.

Robert Plank 3:43 Excellent.

Margaret Mearns-Bass 3:44 And the book the book ends as a very redemptive story, because this year we are celebrating our 62nd wedding anniversary.

Robert Plank 3:55 Wow!

Margaret Mearns-Bass 3:55 So with God's help, we certainly made it through, and I want to encourage marriages who are suffering from adultery, and let them know that it is possible to mend that hurt and to mend that marriage.

Robert Plank 4:13 Great, that's reassuring. And this word forgiveness, I think, it gets thrown around so much that we don't even know what it it means, and as you were talking about it, I looked it up real quick, and I was shocked because I even it's it's such a common word, but I didn't realize it means to stop feeling anger or resentment towards someone who has done wrong. And so there's a lot built into that, right? And it seems like if I'm understanding correctly, there's like a three-step process here, right? It's like step one to give your forgiveness, and step two to get your forgiveness back, and then there's reconciliation. But it seems like a lot is out of your control, isn't it? All you can do is just give your forgiveness, but the other person might not give it back, and then it just the progress, there, which.

Margaret Mearns-Bass 5:00 Correct, correct, yes. Yes, it does because it's very, you know, the the Bible. You know, as a pastor, I quote scripture quite a bit, and the the Bible tells us in Corinthians, God has given us the ministry of reconciliation, and we always think it's just forgiveness, but it is not.

Robert Plank 5:20 Okay.

Margaret Mearns-Bass 5:21 He's wanting us to be able to reconcile.

Robert Plank 5:25 So now I you have me looking up another definition here. So reconciliation is the process of restoring friendly relations, making inconsistent ideas fit together, and so and becoming friendly again after an argument or fight, so it seems like these. So you say there's these two scenarios, right? There's there's your father; it only goes so far, and then there's the infidelity with your husband. And what did you have to go through to get all that figured out?

Margaret Mearns-Bass 5:56 They get that all figured out. Well, obviously studying the word and realizing that I I gave my father forgiveness and there's nothing more I could do if he didn't offer his repentance for what he did to me and I mean I don't hate my father but I do hate what he did to me

Robert Plank 6:21 Yeah.

Margaret Mearns-Bass 6:22 Yeah, so, so there was a shallow relationship, but there was no depth to it whatsoever.

Robert Plank 6:30 And did it take you a while to figure, like, to get come to these conclusions? Were there any, like, you know, extended anger or false starts, or, or did you, you know, was this all figured out by you?

Margaret Mearns-Bass 6:43 Well, sometimes you know you get told off, or your friends will even say, you know, let it go. It's in the past, and don't be so angry. But actually, it's not anger; it's pain that's shouting out. But it's not necessarily anger, you know, because broken just within this past few years, the medical establishment have discovered there's such a thing as broken heart syndrome. And I, through all this, I ended up with atrial fibrillation within my heart and had two heart surgeries, but my family doctor he agreed that no, you are suffering from broken heart syndrome, which is similar to aphid and be confused. So when people say a broken heart, it's a lot more deeper than we realize.

Robert Plank 7:44 Yeah, that it's connected. That the the emotional leads to physical.

Margaret Mearns-Bass 7:48 Absolutely, absolutely. And I write quite a bit about that in the book. Yeah, so people will understand. You know, it's not that you're just being dramatic. It's because you're nursing a broken heart.

Robert Plank 8:04 Okay, well, it's I'm getting a lot of value in you're you're big on the words and the concepts and the definition, and when you're a pastor and you're speaking and you're quoting scripture, like you have to be precise. So I'm curious about maybe what people misunderstand about these concepts about pain, about anger, about forgiveness. Where do we go wrong many times?

Margaret Mearns-Bass 8:29 We go wrong because we're no longer teaching biblical forgiveness, which also includes seeking forgiveness. The church is only in general. I'm not saying any particular church, in general, is only teaching half the gospel. You know, in fact, there is a scripture in Luke when Peter asked Jesus, "How many times shall I forgive? and he says, "70 times seven. But in the book of Luke, that's not what Jesus says. He actually says, "If your brother has offended you and he comes and he seeks your forgiveness, then you shall forgive him. Isn't that interesting? But you don't hear that very much in churches, you know. And I mean, that doesn't bring reconciliation between you know family or other believers if there's not that true reconciliation. Even with God, there has to be genuine reconciliation. And in genuine reconciliation with God, you ask God to forgive you, then he will forgive you.

Robert Plank 9:43 Oh, nice! And and why is this not taught more?

Margaret Mearns-Bass 9:48 Why is it not taught more? I think the church has fallen into apathy, and perhaps you know a lot of believers. You know they'll do something and they'll think well. Oh, that person's a Christian, so they have to forgive me, and they leave it at that, you know. And in John's chapter on when a man hurts a woman, that was preached at a church where the pastor did talk about seeking forgiveness, and he asked all the men who had ever heard a woman to come to the pulpit, and the place was packed. But they'd never been challenged with that before. And I know it can be the other way, but usually in infidelity, it is normally the man. But women also can commit that too. I understand that.

Robert Plank 10:41 Yes, no one's perfect, we're mortal.

Margaret Mearns-Bass 10:44 Correct, all of sin then comes short of the glory of God, yes, yeah.

Robert Plank 10:51 And and what inspired you to take on this career and be a pastor? Did you always want to do it, or did you have some kind of event?

Margaret Mearns-Bass 11:00 I know, I have wanted to be a pastor. I won a scholarship to a private girls' school in Belfast, Northern Ireland. That's where I was raised, and I remember the headmistress asking me questions, and she said, "What do you want to do when you go up, and just out of the blue, I just said, "I want to be a missionary. 11 years old, you know, and I think some of that came from my safety that I felt when I was in church when I was a little girl, and you know, my father would say, "You might as well take your bed there and sleep there. Undo, boy, did I ever wish I could have done, you know. So I had this faith in God. Maybe didn't understand it obviously the way I do today, but I always clung to that. You know, and I I will always say to people, God's calling is important, but his timing is important because I was much older, obviously in my 60s before I went to the mission field.

Robert Plank 12:11 Okay,

Margaret Mearns-Bass 12:12 Yeah, before, and I'd always wanted to go to Russia when I was growing up. I was, you know, into politics at that time, but I think it was because of all the James Bond movies at that time. It made it look so glamorous, you know. But I never did get to go. But the first place God sent me to as a missionary, guess what, was Russia.

Robert Plank 12:35 Good.

Margaret Mearns-Bass 12:36 So yes, so you know, instead of from Russia with love, I was going to Russia with love.

Robert Plank 12:44 How cute!

Margaret Mearns-Bass 12:45 So it's really, it's really amazing. It is important, no matter what you're called to do in life. If God has you know created you and made that purpose for your life, He will fulfill it sooner or later. And I encourage my readers not to allow their past or what cards they've been dealt with to rob them of their purpose in life.

Robert Plank 13:11 Yes, inspiring. We all have those struggles, sometimes we feel beat down. But life is not easy, and sometimes we have to continue on our mission.

Margaret Mearns-Bass 13:22 Yes, we do. Yes, yeah, because that's when we'll be really happy, because that's what God created you to do.

Robert Plank 13:31 Wonderful.

Margaret Mearns-Bass 13:32 So, so often we want to do something someone else is doing, you know, and I always say, if God wanted you to be to be a rose. Don't want to be a daffodil, yeah, yeah.

Robert Plank 13:50 Well, I ,I like the insights that you've been sharing with us. And what's really cool about whenever you write any book and you figure out what fits and what doesn't, and in what order? Sometimes you discover things about yourself. So I'm curious: when you wrote this book, did you discover anything new?

Margaret Mearns-Bass 14:08 Oh yes, absolutely, absolutely. I felt that all those years I had just buried it and didn't think about or try not to think about it, but it was always there. It was chasing me. You can't run away from your past because it's part of you. But God can take that and make something good from it. You know, so many people when I talk about pedophilia, I haven't done it very often, but I will be doing it more now because of the book. But everyone wants to know why would a God of love allow that to happen to me as a little child, and I've been done that why road many many times myself. And then I realized it wasn't God's fault, but what God did do was give my father free will, and with that free will, the word free, we are free to do whatever we choose to do, but we're not made to do it. But my father will be held accountable. We are accountable for that free will, you know. And even though I went through that, I mean, usually it's a stepfather and a family, but this time it was a biological father, which made it worse, if possible, you know. And I wrote a letter to my father in the book. He's dead now, but I still read wrote it. And writing that letter and telling him how I really felt seemed to set me free.

Robert Plank 16:05 Wow!

Margaret Mearns-Bass 16:06 And to forgive him, and at the end end of the the letter, I say, in memory of that happy child I could have been, I commit you to God's grace, and may He have mercy on your soul.

Robert Plank 16:25 Okay, so you found your your own freedom.

Margaret Mearns-Bass 16:28 Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. No, absolutely. But it's sometimes hard to do that, you know. And even within my marriage, I, I. used to be a painter in Wales, but this time I was using a pen instead of a brush, and I wanted to paint a broken heart. What does a broken heart look like, you know? And I think the greatest artist would find it hard to do that without his brush, but I did do that, and I asked three of my friends actually to do the same thing, and it it was amazing the comparisons, and they didn't know what each other was writing, but they did say that it really helped them. be free because they'd never really looking at their broken heart before. So I would self inspective. Yeah, I would recommend people who are listening who have been through these really. I mean, some hurts are just a scratch, but then some are so deep they break your heart. And I would recommend to them to sit down and pick up their pen and write what their broken heart looks like. It's like the road less traveled. People don't particularly want to do it, but it will help them.

Robert Plank 18:00 Great advice. Well, it seems like you've you've helped people at both past and future, right? You help people in in your work, and you also have this amazing book. And in this conversation we're having, Maggie, do you think there might be a missing question that I should be asking you? I just don't know to ask you.

Margaret Mearns-Bass 18:19 Missing question, but, how was I inspired to write the book?

Robert Plank 18:28 Okay, how were you?

Margaret Mearns-Bass 18:29 The beginning, the beginning of my inspiration was quite a while ago. This book has been a long time in the process, and it was when I watched the movie Forrest Gump. Everybody's seen Forrest Gump.

Robert Plank 18:42 Oh yeah.

Margaret Mearns-Bass 18:42 And when I saw Jenny running through the the cornfields, it struck something in my memory, and I became Jenny. And in the movie, it doesn't actually tell you what her dilemma was. It leaves it to your imagination,

Robert Plank 19:03 Yeah.

Margaret Mearns-Bass 19:03 And as you know, Jenny's life was so broken because she was broken.

Robert Plank 19:11 Yeah.

Margaret Mearns-Bass 19:12 And when I look back on my own life, because most women who are abused sexually as children, go to different types of lifestyles and hate men, and you know things. In fact, I have a friend who works in the prison ministry, and she says 80% of the women there were abused as children.

Robert Plank 19:36 Wow!

Margaret Mearns-Bass 19:37 So it doesn't stop when the actual abuse stops because you carry that into your life with you. There is effect because it breaks you inside. Yeah, yeah, you know. And as I say, so I can thank God that He spared me going astray. The way Jenny went astray, it was only through his grace and mercy, you know. And when I look for a purpose of that part of my life, I think the purpose probably was to write this book, because if I hadn't have experienced it, it wouldn't be authentic.

Robert Plank 20:23 Yes, you turned it back into it.

Margaret Mearns-Bass 20:26 Yeah, I can say to to other women, I know how you feel. I know how you feel. I've been there, and it's the same with infidelity and marriage. I can say to the women, "I know how you feel, and many have not been able to find words to explain how they feel. So I hope the words in my book, in that chapter, will help to validate their pain when they couldn't find words to explain it.

Robert Plank 21:03 Oh yes, that's valuable. I can imagine when if we're stuck in a bad situation, bad things happen, we can't let go of that. It pays to get educated, and being educated doesn't always mean learn a step by step process. It can just mean hearing about your story, getting a new perspective, and then getting a handle on the labels and the words, and then it's not fast, but eventually we get just a better handle of the shape of our situation by hearing about what you experienced.

Margaret Mearns-Bass 21:36 Yeah, and it's it's telling them, both children and women, it's telling them that they're not alone, you know. When I was growing up and going through this horrendous childhood, I wish someone had have written a book like this to let me know I'm not alone and it's not my shame to carry. But unfortunately, that silence that that we that most children have lock them in a prison, and the only key to open that prison is truth, is by speaking. I, you know, but many are warned like I was. If you tell anyone, you'll break up his family. You know, many many are told that. You know, and that was why I went into the military, went into the Royal Air Force in the UK, because I didn't want to report him. Because my younger brothers and sisters may have ended up in foster care, I didn't want that to happen to them.

Robert Plank 22:36 Right.

Speaker 1 22:37 Yeah, yeah, to find my way of escape, you know, yeah.

Robert Plank 22:43 Yeah, but you still turned it into something productive, right? Served in the Royal Air Force. You became a a pastor, a speaker, an author. You've you've channeled, you've funneled in a great way.

Margaret Mearns-Bass 22:57 But I do write the book. I give I give glory to God, and you know God wants to heal the people who are broken, but He can't heal them if they shy away from His presence, yeah.

Robert Plank 23:17 We need to step up and do those right things. And so, if someone says Pastor Maggie has a lot figured out, I'm moved and inspired by what she had to say. How can we find the book, and what are some next steps?

Margaret Mearns-Bass 23:30 Okay, the book is in Amazon and all places where books are sold. Obviously, you know, and they can follow up on my website, Maggie'sHiddenManna.com. where we're putting stuff on every day to help people challenge them, challenge them. You know, like one of my challenge people to write this letter of forgiveness, even if they don't know where they live or they they've since passed on, but still write it because it's it's going to make you feel better. It's going to make you free, you know, and because you hear many people say, if you don't forgive, you're hurting yourself inside. But I would also say, if you haven't sought forgiveness from someone that you should have done, you'll also feel bad inside. Your conscience will continually bother you.

Robert Plank 24:34 So it's time to clear the clutter and get to catharsis. Is the word they use for that kind of thing, right? If you write the letter to the person that they're not able to access it, but it still helps you because that's the point.

Margaret Mearns-Bass 24:46 Yes, yes, absolutely, absolutely. I mean, forgiveness is the message of the Bible from Genesis to Revelation. Reconciliation, you know, that's the whole story of the Bible. So. In my appendix of the book, I challenge pastors to share this, you know, and I hope they will, because I think, yeah, yeah, yeah, and because it it would reconcile so many people.

Robert Plank 25:24 Yes, I agree. This is very much needed, and you can find out all about this at Maggie'sHiddenManna.com. That's manna with two ends, and you can go there and read all about the book about her, and you can click and get to it on Amazon. And the book is called "Broken: The Healing Power of Forgiveness After Abuse and Betrayal. And before I let you go, Pastor Maggie, it's time for the scary part of the podcast where I try to stump you. I try to put you on the spot by asking about a fun or interesting quote or lesson that has served you. So, what comes to mind as far as a fun or interesting quote or lesson?

Margaret Mearns-Bass 26:06 As I said, you the book is really like four books in one: my childhood, my marriage, forgiveness, and redemption. Okay, and on the first one, on my childhood, on part one, I say I am not opening a can of worms. I'm opening a can of truth.

Robert Plank 26:31 I like that.

Margaret Mearns-Bass 26:33 Yeah.

Robert Plank 26:34 it's a can that should be opened. If I open that can of worms, oh, I wish I could close it. But the truth is something we want to come out.

Margaret Mearns-Bass 26:40 Yes, because truth, you know, the Bible says truth will set you free. And so many people in silence, so many people chained up because they they can't speak or they don't want to speak or they want to hide it or they want to bury it, thinking perhaps they're living in shame. If they use that key of truth, it will open that cell door, as it did for me.

Robert Plank 27:10 Very great. So it's time to use that key of truth, open that cell door, and if you say, "Well, I'm limited by my own thinking, and I don't see a way through, well, check out this book. It's called "Broken: The Healing Power of Forgiveness After Abuse and Betrayal" by . You can find her at Maggie'sHiddenManna.com. And it's been such a joy and pleasure speaking with you, getting these insights. I'm very glad we have this conversation, so thank you.

Margaret Mearns-Bass 27:37 Good, I hope we'll have more conversations.