1659: Children’s Book Self-Publishing and Strong Heroines with Amy Hawk

Robert Plank 0:00 Amy Hawk is here, and she's here to discuss her very amazing children's book called *The Tales of Rumpus* Are you ready for an epic adventure? Well, I hope you are, because Princess Caitlyn sets out to prove that she is ready to rule the kingdom, and along the way, she makes new friends and stumbles into fun and challenges that will forever change her life, and Princess Caitlin sees amazing things and realizes that maybe there is more to life than she could have imagined. So, if you are someone that wants to give your kids an amazing book about independence, earned confidence, equality, chosen family, curiosity, human connection, and becoming capable while actually going out into the world and making decisions for yourself, as opposed to being absorbed in those tablets or phones. This is the exact children's book for you, The Tales of Rumpus. Amy Hawk, how are you, Miss Amy?

Amy Hawk 0:55 I'm wonderful. How are you today?

Robert Plank 0:56 I am very fabulous. It has been a long, productive day, and I'm here to chat with you because you know sometimes we get so caught up in that day to day and the the numbers and the spreadsheets and the AI and the remote work we say hey maybe it's time to relax and let that creativity loose and enjoy a fun adventure which perhaps could be this book.

Amy Hawk 1:16 Yep and a little human conversation would be nice.

Robert Plank 1:19 Oh yeah, yes just throw some of that in for good measure. And so, what's this book all about?

Amy Hawk 1:24 Ultimately, it's about kind of like a coming of age, finding your inner strength, knowing what you want, and then having the courage to go for it.

Robert Plank 1:34 Oh, very good. So, very much needed in this day and age, right? It's it's so easy to get lost in the crowd and afraid to express yourself, afraid to take those risks, and sometimes it's time to be brave and bold and courageous.

Amy Hawk 1:47 Yeah, and I mean, really, just knowing what you want out of life, and of course, that perspective changes with every new challenge you face or new road you walk. But standing true to who you are, you know, believe in who you are and believe in what you want, and then going for it.

Robert Plank 2:02 Very good, and so this book with all these lessons, that it's great because with any kind of fiction, we kind of come to our own conclusions, and it's not like you know literally told but we kind of get these lessons. My understanding is you wrote this for your niece many years ago, so, so why did you create this?

Amy Hawk 2:21 Many, many years ago, 1998 to be exact was when she was born, and I love all the traditional fairy tales. You know, Cinderella, Snow White, all of those good ones. I grew up on them, and she did too. However, I wanted her to have a true female hero that she could look up to. So all of the classic fairy tales are waiting for someone to come along and save you, or lead you on the path you're supposed to be on. And I wanted her to have somebody who was super strong, who knew what she wanted, was going to go get it, and who was a female character. We didn't have any of that when I was growing up, and we certainly didn't until the invention of Brave and Moana and you know females like that. So I wanted her to have somebody to look up to that looked like her and sounded like her.

Robert Plank 3:07 Very good, so you're an innovator, and I hear that sometimes, right? They say to like write the book that you wish you had years ago, or that you you know you wish you had to to read for your information or for your enjoyment. So you said, "Hey, it didn't exist, and I'll make it. And so, what was that process like? Because I'm sure there's like writing and editing and illustrating. So, how does someone go from just having an inkling of an idea to having a fully published book?

Amy Hawk 3:34 I probably write different than most people, I don't have an outline. I just I knew the main characters, who they were going to be, and kind of their roles, and then they lived in my head for a while, so I knew their voices and their appearance. And then I just started the chapter, and then I followed it where it went. And so ultimately, the book had a different ending in my head. But when I actually did the story and went through it with them. I was like, "Oh, well, this makes more sense as an ending, and I think we kind of all grew along the way. But for me, it's just a matter of knowing kind of what I wanted out of them and how I wanted them to be, and then let them live their life. And so I wrote along with it, and so that was kind of exciting for me because I didn't know where we were going to end up or what we were going to do. Of course, I had those kind of benchmark moments, and you know what I wanted out of it. But I don't follow an outline, and I don't put it down and then stick to it rigorously. I'm more free flowing as far as that goes.

Robert Plank 4:38 Wasn't that so cool when the characters kind of like live in your head, right? It's it's like there's a whole universe in here, and even you don't know what they'll do, and when they interact and they go and do things and go off on adventures, and so you had the kind of the the story beats, it seems, but you didn't really quite know where it would end up or like the ending changed.

Amy Hawk 4:56 Yeah, it makes them human, really, and I don't know. That's good or bad to have all those people in my head. However, they are there, and so you know. I mean, I knew their personalities, but I just didn't really know what to expect out of them. And that's the beauty of life, right? Everything's spontaneous, and we may have expectations on what we want or where we want it, but we may not get there the same way. And so that was fun for me to kind of live the story with them, and then I edit it. I wrote it in '98, and and then I kind of tucked it aside, and then I edited. I revisited it probably about every 10 years, and every decade that I visited, I was like, "Oh, okay, well that's relevant, and that still has meaning, and it still has meaning to my life, and still the same lessons we're learning, and you know. Then I was like, okay, this is a story that really has longevity and has stuck through for now almost 40 years. And so I thought, well, it's time to share it. If it's really been valid that long for me, it's got to be relevant to everybody else. So that's when I went to publishing.

Robert Plank 6:00 Oh yeah, if it keeps coming back, you're like, well, hey, this this is something that keeps revealing itself to me. And do you wish you'd put it out decades ago, and that maybe it had like five or six sequels, or was it a good thing that you like had time to develop and revisit?

Amy Hawk 6:16 I think publishing is really different today, we can all self publish. So we can put out books that probably would have never been seen before. You know, it's very hard to reach out to a publishing company and then submit a manuscript and then get it to go anywhere other than a desk. And so I don't know if it if anybody would have picked up on it back then or if it would have just died in a basket. So I'm a firm believer in things happening how they're supposed to, so I think it was a story that was meant to be shared when it finally was meant to be shared.

Robert Plank 6:47 Oh yes, very cool. And I've heard stories like that, right? Where and less so nowadays now that self-publishing's there, but like things where it sometimes takes like 10 years from start to finish, and there's 20 different people getting their fingerprints on it, and by the time it gets to the end, it's nowhere close to what you originally wanted. So, hey, this way you did it your way, and so there's like the the writing aspect, and then also the the the illustration, the graphics, and so did you illustrate, or did you find an artist, or how did that piece of it come about?

Amy Hawk 7:16 I went through Page Publishing, and they have a fantastic group of illustrators. I worked really closely with them because, as I said, they lived in my head, so I knew what they should look like, and so you know, just communicating with them, and it was a lot of back and forth. But I think they came really close to the image that's in my brain, and that's nice, it's really nice. My next book, I'm illustrating on my own, and boy, that's a double-edged sword because it's AI, you know. So we have that tool now, and it's harder. I mean, you're knocking out an actual illustrator pen to paper, but the image is definitely more what it is for me, you know, in my brain because I can finesse it and stuff. But yeah, I think the illustrators. I think it's fantastic what they did, I think it turned out really, really good.

Robert Plank 8:02 And it's good to know that these different options exist, right? That if you have this in your head, and maybe if you say, "Well, I can illustrate it, I can draw the rough sketch, but I really want some professional solution, like humans can do it, AI can do it, and but it seems like the the key to the writing and the illustrating is to kind of go back and forth with it, right? Like you have this picture in your head, and and we all have like a a kind of an imaginative outcome of what we wish would be, but our brain plays tricks on us, doesn't it? And what's in our in our head is very vague. And once you see it, then you can get it slowly dialed in and closer to what that end outcome should and would be.

Amy Hawk 8:41 Yeah, and it's hard to do when you're you know communicating my email you know and I'm like well okay you know the dragon needs to look more like this or like I had a lot of trouble you can see the bullfrog back here I had a lot of trouble getting them to make it as big as it is because I wanted it as big as a mountain and they just couldn't comprehend how Bill Frank could be that big, and I'm like, oh, trust me, it needs to be that big, and so that was a little challenging sometimes trying to get him to truly translate what I was saying. But I think we got there in the end.

Robert Plank 9:12 Well, very good. And do you sometimes struggle with? I mean, like I know, like sometimes I know what I want, right? And I'm, I'm like, okay, I know I'm not being like a perfectionist, and I'm not spending like six months on one little thing. But I feel like throughout my life, I sometimes butt heads with people that maybe they just want to settle, right? And they're like, "Oh, let's just get it out. Let's just get it done. So, do you ever struggle with that? Because on one side of the spectrum, there's like complete perfectionism, and the others, there's just get it out no matter what. So, like, how do you know if it's good enough or if you're just wasting time?

Amy Hawk 9:44 I mean, that's that's tricky because the true the castle in my brain is it's like a big hot air balloon. It's round, and the description in the book is no corners. It's round, so that nobody gets. To sneak out and jump out and you know scare you-it's round. So it's-I have a very-it's very descriptive in the book, and I, I just couldn't get it to translate, and I couldn't get it to translate, and finally I said, "Okay, it just has to be good enough because I'm hung up on this one little thing, and you know, and it just wasn't translating at all, and so I just, I said, "Okay, the color scheme is great, you know that's everything. But yeah, you have to compromise, and that's what life is. You're not gonna nobody's gonna win every time, and so you you do compromise, and you hope that it it still showcases the best of the work. I mean, musicians go through that. Everybody goes through that when you're an artist, and so some of it I flat refuse to compromise on. Like everybody wants to change my princess to have dark hair or red hair, and I'm like, absolutely not. She's the image of my niece, and my niece is blonde haired and blue eyed, and so it it has to be her. And so I fight with that a lot, a lot. But mostly, yeah, you know, I'm extremely happy with it. If I wasn't happy with it, it wouldn't be in print, so.

Robert Plank 11:04 Nice, well, you pick your battles, and so yeah. And a big part of publishing any kind of book is the promotion, right? There's like social media and getting on podcasts, like we're doing here, and so and it seems like a lot of authors they kind of they think like the finish line is cool, the book is published, but as you know, it's like, hey, now it's the real grind begins, right? And it's like so much work just to get a little bit of attention. And so, what's that been like for you? How has the marketing been?

Amy Hawk 11:32 It's been incredibly painful. That's that's the one thing that you're missing with those great big publishing houses. They they're behind you. They do your productions? They do your promotions. They do everything, but they take a big chunk of it. And so, self-publishing is not that way. I mean, it is. I've gone through a lot of really bad promoters. You know, everybody on the internet professes to be something that they aren't. I've gone through marketing teams. You know, I've given a lot of money to things that just probably were scams. You know, so it's been really challenging to find that right groove where you're getting people who are truly legitimate, like in your case, you know. And Atticus Publishing has been really great in that because they've connected me with the right people, and then I have two marketing teams that are finally right. I still struggle with the promotion side because everybody says, "Oh, I can make you more visible on Amazon, or you know, "I can do this for you, I can do that for you, and it's all a bunch of malarkey. So, still struggling with that. And I mean, I think once you really get true traction and there's real people behind it, then it starts taking care of itself. But it's been very difficult, very very difficult.

Robert Plank 12:42 But that's good, setting expectations, right? No one said it would be easy, and if it was so easy, everyone would do it. And so we're here doing like the podcast. And what else has been working for you? Because I know sometimes people do like talking to bookstores, book signings, press releases. But what's been working for you?

Amy Hawk 12:59 Yeah, I've done a little bit of everything. My marketing team has done several like magazine newspaper articles, which has been a lot of fun. And then I've done several radio interviews and things like that. I like the podcast part of it the best because I like looking at somebody. It's hard when you do the radio stuff because you're looking at a black screen, so you don't really know where to look. You know, so you're kind of confused. But I'm more of a. I mean, I work in a field where I interact with people every day, so that's kind of where I really feel the most comfortable. So I really enjoy the podcast side of it. But I've done some book signings, and it's just it's hard to get people out and interested because you know I grew up in Missouri. I wrote the book in Missouri, and so I had a pretty good fan base there. But now I live in Florida, so you know I went back to Missouri, and then everybody's things conflict, and so you know that's challenging. But I love a book signing because I love to meet people and just look them in the eye because people can't lie to you when they look in the eye, so you know. Did you like the book? Yeah, you know, or yeah, I loved it, and and you know, so I love that human part of it. So book signings are always a blast, in my opinion.

Robert Plank 14:11 Oh yeah, that's got to be so cool to meet your readers face to face. And do you ever have any like nervousness or imposter syndrome, or have you have you just seen so much with your ER nurse stuff that you're just like nothing phases you.

Amy Hawk 14:24 Nothing phases me. However, if I ever become a huge novelist, you know, best-selling author, then I will definitely have imposter syndrome for sure. Because I mean, you know, I'm I'm an avid avid reader, and I know if I met any of the people who wrote books that truly are important to me, I I would just freak out. So I'm definitely going to have the imposter syndrome if that ever happens, for sure.

Robert Plank 14:49 But that would be a good problem to have, right? If you have this, if the only trade off is that, I'll take it.

Amy Hawk 14:54 Yeah, right. Yes, I think it's always challenging, you know, with fame comes a whole lot of, pain. So yeah, I think you have to be really grounded in life to be able to handle any of it. And I'm certainly grounded.

Robert Plank 15:08 Well, great, and yeah, and life sure throws you a lot of things. So you have to like you know have some defenses, have some skills and techniques. And I know that what's great about you and and what you're doing is you also have a whole ecosystem planned, right? You have the Queen Riley origin story planned. Daniel spinoff footprints in the same adult book. So, what's to come in the future for you?

Amy Hawk 15:29 Daniel The Dragon is done, he's in final edit. So, hopefully, he will be going to print in the next month, that's my hope. I hope he's out in three months.

Robert Plank 15:40 Okay.

Amy Hawk 15:40 So yeah, he's come out really well, and I'm really happy with the way it turned out. And so, just doing that final edit.

Robert Plank 15:48 Well, very good. And it seems like that's the world we're living in, right? In this whole like streaming world, they say, well, there's not just one Star Wars show. There's 10. There's not just one Yellowstone. There's 25. And so it's like, if those people like something, then why not give them a lot more of what there is? How how many Law and Orders, CSIS are there? So why not more of the Amy books? And you have the footprints in the Sans adult book plan. So what's that all about?

Amy Hawk 16:15 You know, I'm excited for it to come to fruition. Now, will I be able to pull off an adult novel, I'm hopeful, but you know that's a whole other form of writing. But virtually, it's going to be a year in the life of a nurse practitioner in the ER, and that's me, obviously. And it's going to end up being a murder mystery. So it's going to be encounters in the ER. I'm going to give you little. They're going to be true stories that I've dealt with over my career, and so it's going to be just to like focus on the day of the life, and then what I do to decompress, and that's go and sit on the beach and watch the world go by, and so there's going to be conversations woven in and out that I'm hearing on the beach, and then ultimately it's going to coalesce into this big thing, so.

Robert Plank 17:02 Really cool, they say write what you know, don't they?

Amy Hawk 17:05 Yeah, it's really good in my brain. So we'll see if that translates into paper, but yeah, yeah.

Robert Plank 17:10 And it's worked for you so far, right?

Amy Hawk 17:12 Yeah, we'll see, yeah.

Robert Plank 17:14 Yeah, well, exciting, and and so we've heard about The Tales of Rumpus and about the authoring journey and about what you have plans. You have these major themes about your chosen family and finding your tribe. And I know that like this connects to your own being adopted experience. So it's like there's all the all the subconscious connections, right? There's the things that you know that are connected in the final work. But there's so much where we could go in this conversation, but we only have a few minutes left. So in this conversation we're having here, Miss Amy Hawk, do you think there might be a missing question that I should be asking you? I just don't know to ask you.

Amy Hawk 17:54 You know, a lot of times I get questions if I'm a mom and I'm not. So I have little people in my life. I have godchildren, and then I've got a niece and nephew, obviously. So you know, people want to know, well, how can you write to children so well when you don't have children? But you know, I chalk that up to my experience. I do work in the emergency room, so I'm around little people all the time. You know, and all my friends have kids. It's not like I'm never around kids. So that's a question a lot of people are surprised about when they find out I don't have kids.

Robert Plank 18:21 Oh yeah, that yeah, like you you know what the kids would like. You know how to talk to them, and it's just because of the the proximity, the friends, and the ER. But it doesn't exclude you from being in that children's book club.

Amy Hawk 18:32 Nope, not at all.

Robert Plank 18:34 Well, very nice. And so we want to find out how to get this book, The Tales of Rumpus, and we know that your author website is AmyHawkBooks.com, correct?

Amy Hawk 18:44 Correct.

Robert Plank 18:46 Well, very good. And so you can find about that book at AmyHawkBooks.com, and then The Tales of Rumpus, and there's all kinds of things that you can read about and get yourself educated and go check out the book if you ever want to invite Amy on your radio show or your podcast or your book signing. Then her contact details are at the bottom of that page, that's info@amyhawk.com, and the phone number if you want to call or text 573-280-7448. Amy Hawk is a family nurse practitioner by day and a storyteller by heart, thriving under the Florida sun, she runs her own practice and crafts inspiring fantasy tales, including the one that we've been mentioning, which is the Tales of Rumpus, where fairy tales get a bold new twist, and you can join Princess Caitlyn as she discovers her strength, makes unlikely friends, and learns that being a leader means more than wearing a crown. So that is The Tales of Rumpus by Miss Amy Hawk, and you can find out all about that and more at amyhawkbooks.com. But before I let you go, Miss Amy, it's time for the scary part of the podcast. Where I try to stump you, I try to put you on the spot by asking you about a fun or interesting quote or lesson that has served you. So, what comes to mind as far as a fun or interesting quote or lesson?

Amy Hawk 20:10 So, when I went to nurse practitioner school, it was pretty brutal, and I had to remind myself. And I had my mom do a painting, and it looked like a chalkboard, and it simply said, "Will it be easy? No. Will it be worth it? Yes.

Robert Plank 20:24 Nice, like many achievements in life, right? We shouldn't back out just because there's some difficulty. It thins the herd and it toughens us up, and we can get to some amazing conclusions and results. So, if you want to similarly be inspired and find out what all the fuss is about with this book, *The Tales of Rumpus* go right now to AmyHawkBooks.com. Read it, order it for your little one, and you'll be so glad you did. And I'm so glad that we had this conversation here, Amy, about what you've achieved, what you accomplished, what you have coming up soon, and all about the the messy middle in between. So thanks for being here and discussing it.

Amy Hawk 21:00 Thanks for having me. I really appreciate it.