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Robert Plank: Hey and welcome
back. It is the marketer of the

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day podcast. Courtney Baker is
here. She is the CMO of known

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well, and she is the host of the
AI know how podcast, and

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Courtney has led the
transformation from a company

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called full focus, from a
personality driven to a product

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led brand, and now Courtney
deploys her craft and impact on

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how AI gets deployed in
business. Her website is known

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well.com. She has an excellent
podcast, and we are going to

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find out some secrets about AI
client intelligence, so much

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more So Courtney, glad to be
speaking with you.

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Courtney Baker: Yeah, thanks for
having me. I'm really excited to

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be here, excited to have you.

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Robert Plank: And so we speaking
of excitement, we hyped you up a

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little bit for the audience.
Read your bio, but in your own

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words, what has you fired up?
What are you super excited about

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lately?

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Courtney Baker: Well, I mean,
obviously AI is all the hype is

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about AI, but I think some of
that hype is very legitimate. I

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think we are at a point in
history that is a really special

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time to be in business and
really having to figure out how

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we're going to deploy AI in a
really way that elevates

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humanity, that really elevates
humanity and elevates our

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businesses. And so I think
that's a really exciting thing.

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Of course, we've got to do it
well, but it's one of those

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moments. It's kind of like at
the end of the game in a tight

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basketball match, you know, I
want to have the ball in my

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hands to go make that last shot.
And I think for a lot of

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business leaders, we're thinking
about AI that way as well of

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okay, we can. We've learned over
the last couple decades of other

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digital transformations to kind
of prepare us for this time. And

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I, I personally think it's an
exciting time.

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Robert Plank: I agree it is a
tool to be used properly,

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especially when you think about
like chat GBT took up all of the

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the attention about the
possibilities of AI, even though

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AI's been around for years,
right? Amazon's been using it

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voice recognition. But, like,
chat GBT stole the spotlight,

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and those first year or so, it
sure put out some garbage text,

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didn't it? And you can almost,
like, see if it's chat GBT

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generated. And like, you know,
we're both podcasters, I'm sure

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you get pitches for guests, and
I get all these, like, AI

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written pitches, and I'm just
like, okay, I can tell it's AI.

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I'll skim it, I guess. I guess
I'll still take the person,

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because I get what they meant to
say. And then I'm also excited

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about, for example, like
following up with guests, right?

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I have 1200 guests, and I just
go and get all this stuff

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cranked out, get all these sort
of personalized messages, but I

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still say, like, Okay, well,
I'll go and I'll, I'll add my

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humanness to it and then, but
I'll still the end result will

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be like, 10x 20x productivity in
the end. So, but I'm always

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like, kind of navigating this
very delicate balance between,

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well, I don't want to get left
behind. I want to be productive,

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but I also don't want to just
crank out a bunch of garbage

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articles, garbage follow ups. I
wanted to use this tool

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properly, and so to help us
understand what this known well

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tool is my understanding. Is it
like helps you deal with your

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customers and clients? Is that
right?

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Courtney Baker: That's exactly
right. We, when we launched,

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known well, we had hundreds of
conversations with professional

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service leaders. And you know,
if you think about a really

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small, let's just say a
marketing firm or small

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technology service firm, you
usually have somebody in that

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company that is just really good
at sitting in the middle of all

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of the customer interactions.
You know, they're in the

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meetings, they see the emails,
but they're really good at just

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intuitively being like, Hey, I
think something's up with the

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frost account. And I think we
should get our CEO to go have a

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conversation with their CEO. The
problem is with professional

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service companies. You know,
it's high touch, relates lots of

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relationships with lots of
relationships on the other side.

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And as a professional service
company, starts to scale that

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person sitting in the middle of
all those different

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interactions, and being able to
intuit what needs to happen

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starts to break down. It becomes
impossible as you scale. And so

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what we started to build at
known well was, well, now we

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have AI that can actually sit in
the middle of all of that

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communication, exhaust all the
structured data, the external

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data, and actually help prompt
as humans like, hey, there's

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something going on with this
account that you need to be

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aware of and really spur that
action that way. And so we think

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it's going to be game changing
for professional service

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companies, because unlike SaaS
or E commerce, that have all

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that rich transactional data,
you just don't have that on the

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professional service side, you
have rich. Relationships. And so

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we're really excited to deploy
our technology into those

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companies. And again, the whole
premise is using the technology

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to actually elevate what only
the human can do, which is be in

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relationship with other humans.

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Robert Plank: I love it. Clone
yourself, in a way, and looking

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at the parts of your business
that would not normally scale

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without AI and using it to do a
better job. And so when you talk

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about professional service
companies, what industries are

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that? Because I feel like I
might know what that means, but

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I want to be sure,

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Courtney Baker: yeah. For our
for our company, the the ideal

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fit is really those professional
service companies that have a

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reoccurring structure and are
really focused on executing on

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behalf of a company. You know,
they're an extension of the

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company that they're serving. So
it's marketing firms, it's

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accounting services, financial
services, technology services,

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those types of companies within
that broader bucket of

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professional services are the
ones that we've built this

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product for

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Robert Plank: wonderful and so
my next kind of item in the

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mental agenda is understanding
the user story. And so say you

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have some accounting firm,
marketing firm, and they're

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using your tool. Where does the
data come from? Is it like

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looking at the email, the
communication like, what are the

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inputs and outputs?

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Courtney Baker: Exactly as a
great question. And so a lot of

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times, we don't think of our
email or Zoom calls as data, but

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they actually are. They're
actually incredibly rich data

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sources for our companies and so
for known well, what we do is we

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bring in all of your email, all
of your slack, whatever your

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communication channels are, as
well as any video technology

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that you're using with your
meetings with your clients, and

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then all of your structured data
that already exists today, like

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your CRM, and then external data
to really feed the intelligence.

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You know, we believe that in the
future, our companies will

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really have an intelligence that
sits in the middle of the

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organization. You know, a lot of
times now, you might think of

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your CRM being the hub of the
organization and really being

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the record keeper of what's
happening with clients, but in a

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lot of ways, it is just a record
of what has happened. And what

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we're moving to is these
intelligence that can actually

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help us see what might happen
based on all the inputs. It's,

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again, what a human does in that
small firm of just being able to

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intuit from all these different
pieces and say, Hey, I

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something's going on with that
account. We're really moving

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towards this more proactive
intelligence at the hub of our

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organizations.

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Robert Plank: Very nice. You're
onto something. You're onto a

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fun mission. So instead of using
the CRM to look at the past, you

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have AI to predict more of the
future. And any of us that has a

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roster of clients understands
the pain of 8020 where you have

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that 20% of clients that are
just kind of problematic in one

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way or another, and it would be
good to know where to focus our

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attention, what to work on, what
to fix that way, like the look

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alike of our ideal clients is
replicated in that way, and so

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help us understand, like, who's
using this like, do you have,

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like, a fun case study of
someone that, like, plug in all

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this data, email, Zoom calls,
structured data, CRM, all that

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Put it together and gave them
some kind of insights to change

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their trajectory?

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Courtney Baker: Yeah,
absolutely. And matter of fact,

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one thing that we've built this
for is not just account managers

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on the ground, which it
certainly will help them, you

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know, like you said, not just
let email dictate what they're

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doing today or which customer is
yelling the loudest. It really

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helped them prioritize what
actions they should take, but

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all the way up to the very
senior leaders in the

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organization, of actually being
able to get that those insights

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and that intelligence across the
entire portfolio. So some of

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those, sometimes it's hard to
see through the forest. Actually

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see, oh, man, there are
connection points across the

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organization, that, hey, if we
fix this thing operationally, we

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could really get we could really
move the needle in our business,

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and those things we're really
excited about as well.

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Robert Plank: And what kind of
missing connections are showing

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up?

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Courtney Baker: Yeah. Well,
here's that one great example,

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one use case from one of our
customers. They have an existing

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company. They've acquired a new
business. So right now, when you

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talk to professional service
firms, even highly successful

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ones, what's happening is their
account managers are going

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customer by customer and marking
it red, yellow, green. I've

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heard it over and over. For
again, and that is highly

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subjective and manual and
delayed, you know, it's

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basically a subjective outcome
of what they feel like is

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happening in the relationship.
But they have acquired another

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company, and there's a lot, you
know, even with it being

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subjective, you've now got a
different company that you know

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the way that they Intuit
different things, their red,

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yellow, green may be highly
different than the existing

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company. And so having known
well across all of those

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individuals, across those two
companies that are coming

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together, has been a huge win
for them, because they are able

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to see very quickly how they're
doing in one side of the

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organization versus the other
side of the organization. It

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basically gives this objective
real time look at what's

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happening and where they need to
deploy resources.

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Robert Plank: And do you have
any sort of fun surprises to

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share along these lines? Because
that's always where the fun is,

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right? As you say, well, I feed
it in my data, and I have my

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expectations about where to
deploy my resources or what to

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do differently, but sometimes
the AI, it has like a kind of a

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magic black box effect on it. So
what have you seen, or what have

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your customers seen, about just
the unexpected surprises using

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this tool.

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Courtney Baker: You know one
thing that it may not be exactly

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what you're asking, but I've
seen it multiple times where

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mainly CEOs in this these
organizations, when they get in

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and they see what known well is
producing these insights, it's

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almost immediate that they're
like, oh, man, we need to do

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something about that. We can fix
that by x, y and z. But because

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the it wasn't ever surfaced to
them, they just weren't able to

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see it in a way that they could
problem solve it. And so over

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and over again, things as simple
as basically a process issue

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with something not getting there
in delayed time, the CEO is able

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to see that really quickly and
problem solve it in real time,

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which has been incredible to
see. That's happened multiple

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times against multiple use cases
of just seeing the intelligence

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in a really objective way has
helped them really look at, how

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am I going to drive this
business forward and drive their

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strategy differently?

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Robert Plank: And that seems to
be a recurring theme in our

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conversation here, the human
bias of the well, you have your

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judgment. Someone else has this
judgment. You acquire some

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company, and whatever was
brought along. They have their

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own kind of judgment. It helps
to have that objectivity. And

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then also, I mean, people are
weird about receiving advice and

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who the advice comes from. And
you have to be careful about

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like, presenting and selling
your idea, getting someone on

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board. But if you say, hey, the
cold, hard tool, the computer,

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cloud machine, says, here's our
conclusions, that in a way

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that's a little easier to take,
because you're saying, Well,

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it's, it's data driven, not
necessarily on feelings or

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opinions. That might be a little
better way to get the message

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across, to act differently. And
you're also mentioning about

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acting in a timely fashion,
right, using this real time data

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doing making the change before
the problem is bigger, before

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you lose the client, before the
budget's wrong. And that's some

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really exciting stuff. And so as
you know, being a business owner

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is hard, right, and building
something and getting people to

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use it. So I'm curious about
your awkward growing pains. So

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has there been difficulty in
getting the product work or

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getting the word out? Like, what
sort of struggles have you

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personally gone through, getting
known well, on board with people

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and companies?

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Courtney Baker: Yeah, that's a
great question. And I mean, at

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someone this was actually my
first time in a startup, from

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zero to one, and it's a unique
season. So if you've never

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experienced it, well, I you
know, even as I say, that it's

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not for everyone, because it is
a unique journey, and some

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people might call it throwing
spaghetti at the wall, but in so

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many ways, it's so experimental,
of really trying to hone in on

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who your ICP is, and then that
constant experimental mindset of

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developing messages and really
understanding your customer in a

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way, to find things that
resonate or not, and that or not

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is Really powerful as well. And
so you know that is, it's hard.

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It's hard going from zero to
one. That's why it's a fun

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journey. But it's not for
everybody, and I would say

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experiencing that for the first
time, it is that mental

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resiliency over and over again,
of when something doesn't work

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the way that you thought. It
would to have the stamina to

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keep pushing ahead. And so, yes,
certainly times that we've tried

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things that didn't work, times
that we've thought something

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didn't work, that all of a
sudden, you know, a new, you

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know, change in the audience,
all of a sudden it does work,

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and just sticking with it over
time and really keeping track of

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those adjustments that we're
making until we get to the point

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that we start to see traction.
And we've been in a really great

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season of of selling new
customers right in our ICP that

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we're really excited about.

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Robert Plank: Well, you're
you're mentioning something here

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that I probably forget about
once a month, and then remember

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again and forget again, which is
this idea of that your customers

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are people, and that they have
their own needs, and we need to

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kind of recurringly think about
their fears and frustrations and

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what interests them and what
gets them to take action? And

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it's it's really easy to fall
back on making your product

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really good, which is important,
but like, that's not the focus

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right? Or on your marketing,
your messaging, but sometimes

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that's hit or miss. And so
you're saying that sometimes, if

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it's maybe, like, this feature
that really excites you, doesn't

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excite them, or maybe it needs
to be developed better or

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presented better, or the
timing's not right. And so

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instead of driving ourselves
crazy, you think, well, who are

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these people that I'm trying to
help? And perhaps that helps to

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motivate you through the
frustrations when things don't

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always go the way you want. And
let's let's be real. It's life.

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You always have unexpectedness
happening all the time, but

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you're like, Well, who am I
seeking to help and serve? And

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where are they stuck without me?
And now my solution can get them

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there, and everyone will be
happy once we solve some of

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these hard problems. But there's
a reward after we're getting to

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the other side. And so speaking
of getting to that other side,

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what are you working on now?
What's the current, like,

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personal challenge, or what's
your business striving to as far

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as, like, new customers, new
features is what's happening

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headed towards the future?

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Courtney Baker: Yeah, we're
really we just closed our seed

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round in September, and so we're
really excited about having that

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influx of funding and really
being able to build out the

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product to the next level. And,
you know, unlike a lot of AI

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tools, and there's so many right
now, and they're great, but most

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of them are for individual
productivity, and hopefully, as

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you've probably caught on, what
we're building at known well is

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not at that execution level,
it's at the operation level of

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the organization. And so it
really hits on, how do we work

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together? And I think there's
going to be more and more tools

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that you'll see Native AI
technology at that level, which

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is exciting, but I think we're
one of those companies, and so

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we're really excited about
deploying more of our

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Operational Insights within
organizations, and deploying

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more of turning those
intelligence, those insights,

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into action inside these
companies. And so that's that's

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what we're building right now,
and working with our Early

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Access customers on and I would
say, for me personally, in and I

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think this is good for all of
us, marketers, when things get

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tough or we get stuck, getting
with our customers can unlock so

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much. Matter of fact, when you
were talking just a moment ago,

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I there's a piece of our product
that is a relationship map. It's

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kind of almost like a heat map
for your relationships and the

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the customer, all the
relationships within your

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customer. And it just shows the
health of each one of those

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different connections. And I
honestly, when I saw it in our

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product, I was like, Oh, this is
cool, but our customers loved

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it, because they are so mindful
and professional services people

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is what, what their business is?
You know, it's people serving

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companies and so. But had I not
been on that call with a

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customer to see them like, oh,
wow, this is amazing. I wouldn't

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have known that. So just a note
for all of us, like, it's so

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helpful to get with our
customers and just hear from

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them specifically to help us
drive and get get unstuck, get

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to the next level.

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Robert Plank: That's powerful
too. Because, like, yeah, I was

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thinking about the like
motivation terms, but you're

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saying also, just to get those
insights and to see what makes

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your customers come alive, and
in in tech and programming,

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that's huge, right, looking over
your customers shoulder and just

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seeing what what they do, or if
they're trying to find some

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menu, or you're like, hey, I
don't even know, people. Use

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that feature, and that's huge.
And it's, these are some great

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insights. And just it's, it's
easy to not know or forget or to

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ignore some of this fundamental
advice, but that's what will get

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us through and get us to some of
these goals and and, you know,

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have us build the company of our
dreams. And so in our last few

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minutes here, I'm always looking
for, okay, like my guests came

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here, and they have all these
things. They have all these

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interesting stories and advice,
but sometimes I don't know

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exactly the right question to
ask. So in our conversation

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here, Courtney, is there, like a
missing, hidden, invisible

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question, is there something
that you wish I would ask you,

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but I just don't know to ask it?

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Courtney Baker: Um, you know, I
will phrase it like this. I

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think there is having an
understanding of where we are in

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the AI journey, where we are at
with the technology, where in

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whatever business you're in at
whatever level, is incredibly

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powerful. And so I would that's
more the answer to the question

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you you that I think might be
helpful for people is just to

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understand we are at the very
beginning and really starting to

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understand where the technology
is going to go. For example, you

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know, I mentioned earlier of
moving up to that operations

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level in a business, you know,
we've been in the, really the

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execution level with things like
chat, GBT and coding tools. I

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mean, there's innumerable at
this point, but understanding

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the levels of business and how
AI is going to be deployed as as

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the technology progresses is
incredibly powerful.

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Robert Plank: I agree that's
helpful to think about what are

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those marketplace cycles? What
is it going to evolve into?

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Where is it going to be used?
How is it going to mature? It's

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enough to drive someone crazy,
but that's why we need to be

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informed over time and not have
to play catch up. It's never fun

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to cram for a test, but if you
just do a little bit of studying

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over time and seeing what
interests you, what your

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competitors are doing, what you
can tap into. Then that's a

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helpful dose over time to just
help us to stay informed, to

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stay up to date, so that way our
companies don't get left behind

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with AI. That way we know that
these amazing tools, such as

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known well exist and that we can
tune into your podcast as well.

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That way we can just stay up to
date on what's happening with AI

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and so speaking to that, we're
at the point on the show where

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we're saying, Okay, well,
Courtney had some great advice,

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known Well, sounds amazing. She
gave me a little bit of some

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homework assignments. Seem to
think about in my own business.

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But that only gets us so far,
right? That only gives us a

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little bit of a taste. So to
find out more about you and your

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company and your podcast and
known well, and just any other

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00:22:48,070 --> 00:22:53,800
next steps, what should an
eager, engaged podcast listener

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do at this point? Where should
they go to find out more about

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00:22:56,650 --> 00:22:57,850
you and what you have going on?

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Courtney Baker: Yeah, well, you
ca n find us @knownwell.com and

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specifically, I'd love to point
you towards a demo of what we're

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building, of our platform, our
team would love to talk to you,

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if nothing else, to get your
feedback on what we're building.

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So again, you could do
that@knownwell.com and our

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podcast is called AI, know how
it's really for executives and

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helping break down how to think
about AI in your business. And

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you can find me personally at
LinkedIn, @courtbaker,

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Robert Plank: very nice. So that
is known well.com. K, N, O, W,

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N, W, E, L, L.com. I'm sure
you're a podcaster. You spell

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00:23:40,650 --> 00:23:43,320
things out once I start spelling
like, I hope I don't mess a

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00:23:43,320 --> 00:23:49,080
letter here, known well.com and
then the AI, known AI know how

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podcast, and then Courtney Baker
on LinkedIn. And so as we're

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00:23:53,640 --> 00:23:56,430
checking out those resources, as
we're going there again,

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podcasting inside baseball, it's
always nice to have the reels,

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00:24:01,620 --> 00:24:05,280
the clips, and so this is where
I asked my guest about a fun

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00:24:05,280 --> 00:24:09,090
quote or lesson that has helped
them in their life or their

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business that they can pass on
to us. So for viral clip, real

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00:24:13,920 --> 00:24:18,450
purposes, Courtney Baker, what
is a fun quote or lesson that

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has served you that you can pass
on to us,

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Courtney Baker: I would say,
whatever level of the

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organization you're in right
now, you need to be setting time

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aside to get your hands on these
AI tools. And this is probably

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specifically for executives,
because if you're on the ground,

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you may be already doing that,
but if you're an executive, make

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sure that you're also setting
time each week to get your hands

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on these tools so that as the
technology progresses, you

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understand the capabilities.

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Robert Plank: Very nice advice,
stay informed, get your hands on

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00:24:52,500 --> 00:24:55,200
these tools. Experiment, play
around, get some results,

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00:24:55,260 --> 00:24:58,440
because another tool will come
along in a few weeks or months,

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00:24:58,560 --> 00:25:01,500
and that way you can just. Just
get in this good habit,

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00:25:01,500 --> 00:25:04,830
especially as you said, at the
executive level, of knowing

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00:25:04,830 --> 00:25:07,920
what's possible, knowing what
your business should be doing,

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00:25:08,070 --> 00:25:11,790
and the next step to get
informed is, as we said, Go to

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00:25:11,790 --> 00:25:16,020
known well.com, go there, get
that demo scheduled. That way

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00:25:16,020 --> 00:25:19,050
you can play around, use that to
watch a video, see how it's

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00:25:19,050 --> 00:25:23,790
done. And then the A, I know how
podcast, because AI has changed

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00:25:23,790 --> 00:25:27,060
so much in these last few years.
Who knows where it's going? Who

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00:25:27,060 --> 00:25:31,140
knows what will be possible in
the coming decades? Our brains

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00:25:31,140 --> 00:25:35,610
can't even imagine, but you can
find out from Courtney and her

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00:25:35,610 --> 00:25:39,450
company and her team known
well.com. AI know how podcast,

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00:25:39,480 --> 00:25:41,730
very nice speaking with you
today. Courtney, you too.

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00:25:41,730 --> 00:25:42,600
Courtney Baker: Thanks for
having me.

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00:25:45,760 --> 00:25:47,560
Robert Plank: I really
appreciate you being a listener

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00:25:47,560 --> 00:25:50,560
of the marketer of the day
podcast. The place to go right

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00:25:50,560 --> 00:25:53,560
now, if you want to know more
about running your own podcast,

419
00:25:53,560 --> 00:25:59,560
is d f y podcast.com/free, go
there right now. Claim your free

420
00:25:59,560 --> 00:26:03,960
gift. D f y podcast.com/ dot
com, slash, free, you.