1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:06,240 Robert Plank: Music. Welcome back. It's the marketer of the 2 00:00:06,240 --> 00:00:09,540 day podcast, Wilson Zehr is here, and Wilson is an 3 00:00:09,540 --> 00:00:13,080 experienced technology entrepreneur and an academic. 4 00:00:13,200 --> 00:00:17,430 He's the founder of sendix, but their front end service is 5 00:00:17,430 --> 00:00:22,200 called zair mail. You can send postcards, letters, snack packs, 6 00:00:22,380 --> 00:00:25,980 zero. Mail is the fastest, easiest and least expensive way 7 00:00:26,070 --> 00:00:30,450 to grow your business, using the US postal mail. And Wilson has 8 00:00:30,450 --> 00:00:34,890 also been around the block, you say a few times, but like 1020 9 00:00:34,890 --> 00:00:37,320 times, right? He's seen some stuff going back to the 10 00:00:37,320 --> 00:00:40,830 beginning of the internet, he's launched six tech startups. He's 11 00:00:40,830 --> 00:00:45,600 raised over $60 million in venture capital. He teaches, he 12 00:00:45,630 --> 00:00:49,590 goes on podcasts. He builds companies. He accomplishes so 13 00:00:49,590 --> 00:00:52,080 many amazing things that we're going to find out from Wilson 14 00:00:52,080 --> 00:00:56,280 himself about the secrets to his success, how he has so much time 15 00:00:56,280 --> 00:01:00,570 and energy to continually get educated and make these business 16 00:01:00,570 --> 00:01:04,290 accomplishments and what we can learn from him, as far as using 17 00:01:04,290 --> 00:01:08,190 direct mail, as far as growing companies, as far as avoiding 18 00:01:08,190 --> 00:01:11,160 mistakes, achieving greatness, so many other things. So Wilson, 19 00:01:11,160 --> 00:01:12,210 glad to be speaking with you. 20 00:01:13,020 --> 00:01:14,970 Wilson Zehr: Well. Thank you, Robert, it's great to see you. 21 00:01:15,000 --> 00:01:18,960 Thanks for having me on. Looking forward to sharing more 22 00:01:19,470 --> 00:01:21,630 Robert Plank: And I look forward to it as well. So we introduce 23 00:01:21,630 --> 00:01:24,330 you, but in your own words, what are you currently passionate, 24 00:01:24,330 --> 00:01:25,590 excited, fired up about? 25 00:01:27,630 --> 00:01:29,130 Wilson Zehr: Today, I'm running a company called xermail. 26 00:01:29,160 --> 00:01:33,870 Xermail is the fastest, easiest and most reliable way to send 27 00:01:33,900 --> 00:01:38,730 direct mail and direct mail, even though, I mean, for a lot 28 00:01:38,730 --> 00:01:41,970 of entrepreneurs, there's more focus on digital tools these 29 00:01:41,970 --> 00:01:47,460 days, which is, which is great. Direct Mail still has a place, a 30 00:01:47,460 --> 00:01:50,580 very powerful place, in the ecosystem. It does some things 31 00:01:50,580 --> 00:01:54,780 that the digital tools we might use aren't able to do, and so 32 00:01:54,780 --> 00:01:58,500 the combination of those things is really powerful. 33 00:01:59,610 --> 00:02:02,340 Robert Plank: And I agree completely that that it's some 34 00:02:02,340 --> 00:02:04,680 people write it off or discount it because it's like an old 35 00:02:04,680 --> 00:02:07,470 technique, but it's, it's been around for decades. Some say 36 00:02:07,470 --> 00:02:11,070 old, others say established. And I what I like about what you 37 00:02:11,070 --> 00:02:14,460 just said there is how it's useful with a combination of 38 00:02:14,460 --> 00:02:18,150 other techniques. And I'm always at the mindset of, well, I don't 39 00:02:18,150 --> 00:02:21,660 really care if it's a popular technique or not. Like, what 40 00:02:21,660 --> 00:02:25,440 gets attention, what gets some results, what gets customers 41 00:02:25,440 --> 00:02:29,010 reactivated, what makes my sequence even better? And so 42 00:02:29,100 --> 00:02:32,910 just what do you hear these days about direct mail? Like, what? 43 00:02:33,000 --> 00:02:37,710 Why don't people do it? What are the the best ways? What's the 44 00:02:37,710 --> 00:02:39,990 exciting happenings in direct mail lately? 45 00:02:40,590 --> 00:02:43,620 Wilson Zehr: Well, I think that. I mean, this is a big question. 46 00:02:44,430 --> 00:02:50,280 Maybe I'll slice it into pieces. You know that the if we look at 47 00:02:50,280 --> 00:02:53,730 mail today, the volume of mail is actually declined over the 48 00:02:53,730 --> 00:02:58,800 last 10 years or so, for sure, and that, but mail is not all 49 00:02:58,800 --> 00:03:02,010 homogenous. I mean, we have transactional mail, which is 50 00:03:02,010 --> 00:03:05,520 like billing statements, things like that. And obviously, lots 51 00:03:05,520 --> 00:03:07,770 of people are going online to pay bills these days, which 52 00:03:07,770 --> 00:03:11,640 makes sense if you've got a relationship with your you know, 53 00:03:11,670 --> 00:03:14,670 electricity provider, then paying your bill monthly online 54 00:03:14,670 --> 00:03:19,830 makes a lot of sense. It saves a lot of money for for both people 55 00:03:19,830 --> 00:03:25,470 and it also it's better for the environment. If you look at 56 00:03:25,470 --> 00:03:28,020 marketing mail, though, it's been relatively steady, and one 57 00:03:28,020 --> 00:03:30,930 of the reasons for that is that it works. I mean, direct mail is 58 00:03:30,930 --> 00:03:35,160 traditionally driven by return on investment, ROI. And as the 59 00:03:35,160 --> 00:03:38,100 Marketing Association, American Marketing Association, points 60 00:03:38,100 --> 00:03:42,390 out, on average, returns $13 for every dollar spent. You know, if 61 00:03:42,390 --> 00:03:45,990 we look at the industry average overall. So if you, if you know 62 00:03:45,990 --> 00:03:50,970 how to use the tool, it tends to be very effective. Now, if they, 63 00:03:51,000 --> 00:03:55,050 when we think about direct mail, well, the backup, think about 64 00:03:55,050 --> 00:03:58,860 the problem and the word marketing to people, there's an 65 00:03:58,860 --> 00:04:01,380 old saying that if all you have as a hammer, then everything 66 00:04:01,380 --> 00:04:05,700 looks like a nail. You know, there's, I mean, the solution to 67 00:04:05,700 --> 00:04:08,970 every problem can't be a web page or an email. I mean, 68 00:04:08,970 --> 00:04:12,210 instead, if we look at the problem first, and you know this 69 00:04:12,210 --> 00:04:14,490 from software engineering, right? We don't, we don't 70 00:04:14,550 --> 00:04:17,010 necessarily pick the language first. We look at the problem 71 00:04:17,010 --> 00:04:19,980 we're trying to solve and say, what tools do I have available 72 00:04:19,980 --> 00:04:25,950 to solve that problem. The same is true in marketing. Direct 73 00:04:25,950 --> 00:04:30,090 Mail does some things that no other medium does. One is the 74 00:04:30,090 --> 00:04:34,170 idea that I can reach every consumer and business in America 75 00:04:34,170 --> 00:04:39,630 seven days a week. So I have that kind of ability to reach 76 00:04:39,630 --> 00:04:43,680 people. Secondly it's it's proactive. I don't have to wait 77 00:04:43,680 --> 00:04:46,590 for people to find me. I can reach out and I can touch them. 78 00:04:46,590 --> 00:04:50,010 I can interrupt them, give them a message, save them time. Save 79 00:04:50,010 --> 00:04:53,880 them money. I you know, I can have an impact on people when, 80 00:04:54,090 --> 00:04:56,970 when I want to have an impact, not necessarily when they want 81 00:04:56,970 --> 00:05:01,560 to come find me. Thirdly, the. Lists are, are very well 82 00:05:01,560 --> 00:05:06,060 developed. If I wanted to market to Jewish dentists in New Jersey 83 00:05:06,060 --> 00:05:09,150 who bought a car in the last six months, I could probably find 84 00:05:09,150 --> 00:05:13,350 that list. Not so with with any other with a lot of other 85 00:05:13,350 --> 00:05:17,730 mediums. You know, the targeting is very limited. I think the 86 00:05:17,730 --> 00:05:21,780 other thing that that is powerful as it's just kind of 87 00:05:21,780 --> 00:05:24,990 built into the American psyche. I don't know if you've tried to 88 00:05:24,990 --> 00:05:28,350 do any telemarketing recently, but if you call consumers, 89 00:05:28,350 --> 00:05:30,660 they're just angry, right? They don't want to talk. They don't 90 00:05:30,690 --> 00:05:32,520 they don't want somebody to interrupt their day, especially 91 00:05:32,520 --> 00:05:35,910 if it's on their smartphone. And only 30% of households in 92 00:05:35,910 --> 00:05:38,910 America even have a landline anymore. So if you're calling 93 00:05:38,910 --> 00:05:42,210 somebody, you're likely to get them on their smartphone and 94 00:05:42,240 --> 00:05:47,850 mag, maximize the frustration. But not so in direct mail. I 95 00:05:47,850 --> 00:05:50,580 mean, you come home, or mail in general, people come home, they 96 00:05:50,580 --> 00:05:53,280 get the mail out of the mailbox, they sort through it, so they 97 00:05:53,280 --> 00:05:56,340 keep some of the set aside for later, and then they move on 98 00:05:56,340 --> 00:05:59,760 with their evening. The Postal Service likes to call that the 99 00:05:59,790 --> 00:06:03,720 mail moment that the, you know, the family looks forward to. And 100 00:06:03,720 --> 00:06:08,250 I think they, they romanticize it a little bit, but I think 101 00:06:08,250 --> 00:06:12,000 it's, it's true in my household that when I come home, the first 102 00:06:12,000 --> 00:06:14,460 thing I do is I get the mail sorted through it. I mean, it's 103 00:06:14,460 --> 00:06:17,280 just part of my daily ritual. And I think that's true for 104 00:06:17,280 --> 00:06:21,990 millions of other Americans as well, certainly as a consumer 105 00:06:21,990 --> 00:06:25,740 businesses takes a little different path. But same thing, 106 00:06:25,740 --> 00:06:31,800 most businesses are set up to receive and deal with mail. So 107 00:06:31,800 --> 00:06:39,480 that's a lot, I mean. But to give you an example of this, we 108 00:06:39,480 --> 00:06:44,400 did a campaign for a local school bond initiative in 109 00:06:44,400 --> 00:06:49,290 Eastern Oregon. And so the question is, how do we you know, 110 00:06:49,290 --> 00:06:52,350 the the school, local school board, done a very good job of 111 00:06:52,350 --> 00:06:55,740 managing the finances refinance the debt when the interest rates 112 00:06:55,740 --> 00:06:58,260 were low, but they have an opportunity to get matching 113 00:06:58,260 --> 00:07:01,650 funds from the state and bait using those matching funds, they 114 00:07:01,650 --> 00:07:06,570 could do a local bond, and they could get a replace, replace an 115 00:07:06,630 --> 00:07:10,320 athletic facility, an aging athletic facility, and but the 116 00:07:10,320 --> 00:07:13,380 last bond was really close, so they, they brought us in to help 117 00:07:13,380 --> 00:07:18,660 with that. And so basically what we did is we, you know, like a 118 00:07:18,660 --> 00:07:23,760 lot of other programs, we, we created a website. The website 119 00:07:23,760 --> 00:07:27,720 explained the bond and how it worked. We got videos of people 120 00:07:27,720 --> 00:07:30,420 who used to go to the school, but generations of people who 121 00:07:30,420 --> 00:07:37,290 went to school with those videos online. We did, you know, we, we 122 00:07:37,290 --> 00:07:40,740 went out and met. Did parent teacher meetings? We had coffee 123 00:07:40,740 --> 00:07:46,920 meetings, and of course, did all traditional stuff, door hangers, 124 00:07:47,070 --> 00:07:52,860 Milan signs, things of that nature. But we also brought in 125 00:07:52,860 --> 00:07:55,800 social media, got people to reach out to their friends and 126 00:07:55,800 --> 00:07:59,880 talk to their friends. And then when we come to the direct mail, 127 00:07:59,880 --> 00:08:02,970 you say, how does that fit? Well, you know, in this in this 128 00:08:02,970 --> 00:08:06,030 county, what we can do, like a lot of counties, is we can buy 129 00:08:06,030 --> 00:08:08,790 the voter file. So we buy a file of everybody who can, who can 130 00:08:08,790 --> 00:08:13,680 vote. We sliced that into four pieces. We looked at homeowners 131 00:08:13,680 --> 00:08:16,680 versus non homeowners, because homeowners have to pay the tax 132 00:08:16,770 --> 00:08:21,240 non homeowners don't. And then we divided those two into 133 00:08:21,480 --> 00:08:23,550 households with children, households who didn't have 134 00:08:23,550 --> 00:08:26,580 children, the households who have children, we have a very 135 00:08:26,580 --> 00:08:30,060 special pitch for them, because they may pay additional money on 136 00:08:30,060 --> 00:08:32,850 the bond, but their kids are going to enjoy the benefits of 137 00:08:32,850 --> 00:08:37,470 that. For the folks at OMA homes that don't have children in 138 00:08:37,470 --> 00:08:40,170 school, it's more about community. You know, bringing a 139 00:08:40,170 --> 00:08:44,010 community together, doing things, you know, for the 140 00:08:44,010 --> 00:08:48,390 greater good. And then for those folks who aren't homeowners, 141 00:08:48,420 --> 00:08:53,190 they still get the benefits. And we can, you know, we can tune 142 00:08:53,190 --> 00:08:56,940 the message to what works best for them. We went out with a 143 00:08:56,940 --> 00:09:01,320 first postcard early in the campaign in Oregon, we've been 144 00:09:01,320 --> 00:09:04,290 doing vote by mail the last 25 years. I mean, you can't even 145 00:09:04,290 --> 00:09:09,600 find a polling place, but that actually works out good in this 146 00:09:09,600 --> 00:09:13,710 case, because we can we know from the state when the ballots 147 00:09:13,710 --> 00:09:17,670 will be measured, when they be mailed, excuse me, and so we can 148 00:09:17,670 --> 00:09:20,910 target our mail so that the postcard arrives just when 149 00:09:20,910 --> 00:09:23,730 people are going to vote, because some people get their 150 00:09:23,760 --> 00:09:26,880 ballot in the mail. Some people vote right away, and just to get 151 00:09:26,880 --> 00:09:30,120 it off their table or their desk, some people hang on to it 152 00:09:30,120 --> 00:09:33,960 till the due date. So we will go out with one postcard just 153 00:09:33,960 --> 00:09:38,460 before the ballot is delivered. We go out with a second one just 154 00:09:38,460 --> 00:09:44,760 before the date to vote, and it was an overwhelming success. I 155 00:09:44,760 --> 00:09:48,690 mean that while the earlier bond measure was just barely passed, 156 00:09:48,990 --> 00:09:53,940 we passed with overwhelming support. And so it's a, you 157 00:09:53,940 --> 00:09:56,490 know, there were other elements as well, but an example of 158 00:09:56,790 --> 00:10:00,060 looking at the problem and, you know, understanding. The 159 00:10:00,060 --> 00:10:02,910 demographic and the offer, and then using the right tool to 160 00:10:02,910 --> 00:10:05,970 reach the, you know, the people we're trying to persuade. 161 00:10:07,320 --> 00:10:09,630 Robert Plank: I love that this is an amazing thought process 162 00:10:09,630 --> 00:10:12,450 you have. Like, you say, well, here's this big, scary problem, 163 00:10:12,540 --> 00:10:16,050 but then here's kind of these, these, the shape of which our 164 00:10:16,050 --> 00:10:19,260 solution will fit into it, right? You say, well, here, like 165 00:10:19,260 --> 00:10:22,950 the marketing channels, and then here's like, how we'll slice and 166 00:10:22,950 --> 00:10:27,390 dice our mailer lists. And then here's like, these customized 167 00:10:27,390 --> 00:10:32,490 messages we'll send for each like subset. And then here's the 168 00:10:32,520 --> 00:10:35,850 follow up sequence. I mean, this is amazing, and you're reminding 169 00:10:35,850 --> 00:10:39,270 me that, just the other day, me and my wife remarked that some 170 00:10:39,270 --> 00:10:41,970 postcard came in the mail because, you know, as we're 171 00:10:41,970 --> 00:10:46,200 recording this, it is kind of election day just passed. But 172 00:10:46,200 --> 00:10:49,260 then there's a lot of things to vote on an election day. And, 173 00:10:49,260 --> 00:10:52,470 and you and I both know, in America, people are uninformed, 174 00:10:52,470 --> 00:10:55,410 right? And we just, even if you get the little postcard in the 175 00:10:55,410 --> 00:10:58,080 mail about, especially, like, the local stuff, right? And so 176 00:10:58,080 --> 00:11:01,860 there was, like, some city measure that needed to, like, 177 00:11:01,860 --> 00:11:06,000 you know, tax an extra half a penny to pay for such and such. 178 00:11:06,030 --> 00:11:09,090 And the postcard came in the mail, like, a week before the 179 00:11:09,090 --> 00:11:12,870 election. And me and my wife, we got our mail in ballots send 180 00:11:12,870 --> 00:11:16,860 them back the same day. We were like, they missed it. And so by 181 00:11:16,860 --> 00:11:19,620 hearing you it's like, it's like, in that situation, if 182 00:11:19,620 --> 00:11:22,500 they'd set a postcard at the beginning, like, right before we 183 00:11:22,500 --> 00:11:25,080 got the ballots. And then, like you said, maybe some people 184 00:11:25,200 --> 00:11:29,010 vote. I mean, in other places, we vote in person too, but then 185 00:11:29,460 --> 00:11:33,690 if we waited until, like just before to mail it back, I mean, 186 00:11:33,690 --> 00:11:36,600 just that small little tweak could have made such a 187 00:11:36,600 --> 00:11:38,880 difference. And I have no idea what their effectiveness is, but 188 00:11:38,880 --> 00:11:42,060 just our impression was, I don't care about this postcard. It's 189 00:11:42,060 --> 00:11:44,790 too late. And so do you sometimes see this, like, when 190 00:11:44,790 --> 00:11:48,300 you, I mean, you, you just laid out, like, a really great way to 191 00:11:48,300 --> 00:11:51,750 do it, but I'm sure you, you see it being done incorrectly. And 192 00:11:51,750 --> 00:11:54,270 so is there, are there, like, these little tweaks? Are some 193 00:11:54,270 --> 00:11:58,200 people, like, so close to the gold, as far as making their 194 00:11:58,200 --> 00:11:59,520 marketing campaigns work? 195 00:12:01,560 --> 00:12:04,440 Wilson Zehr: Yeah, no, timing does turn out to be important. I 196 00:12:04,440 --> 00:12:07,230 mean, that's why the speed around the platforms. Air Mail 197 00:12:07,230 --> 00:12:14,400 platform is a key, you know, key benefit. I mean, so if you for 198 00:12:14,400 --> 00:12:17,190 us, I mean, if you you just upload a document, upload a 199 00:12:17,190 --> 00:12:20,880 diff, a list, you see a proof in real time, and you're in the 200 00:12:20,880 --> 00:12:24,240 mail tomorrow and and if it's first class mail, we're seeing, 201 00:12:24,660 --> 00:12:27,720 you know, three days delivery nationwide, wide, next day 202 00:12:27,720 --> 00:12:32,040 delivery, about 94% of time in the local area. So it's very 203 00:12:32,040 --> 00:12:34,860 fast. The turnaround is very fast, especially using this 204 00:12:34,860 --> 00:12:38,040 platform, because it's done in a commercial production facility. 205 00:12:38,310 --> 00:12:40,860 We do a lot of mail. Everything's properly addressed, 206 00:12:40,860 --> 00:12:44,340 properly bar coded, packaged and pre sorted and sent to the 207 00:12:44,340 --> 00:12:47,580 Postal Service, and so it can be delivered as sufficiently as 208 00:12:47,580 --> 00:12:50,940 possible. The other thing is that xeromil is a software 209 00:12:50,940 --> 00:12:54,450 solution. We're software company, and we do production 210 00:12:54,450 --> 00:12:58,350 and mailing through a network of production partners nationwide. 211 00:12:58,680 --> 00:13:02,340 So we route the piece electronically as far as it can 212 00:13:02,340 --> 00:13:06,360 go, and then turn it into paper. So you know, the portion of the 213 00:13:06,360 --> 00:13:08,520 trip that it makes electronically is going to be a 214 00:13:08,520 --> 00:13:11,670 lot faster and a lot better for the environment. Frankly, 215 00:13:13,350 --> 00:13:16,110 Robert Plank: that is cool that it it's not like they're all 216 00:13:16,170 --> 00:13:18,900 mailing out from one single location. You're saying like, 217 00:13:18,900 --> 00:13:22,920 hey, if, if we're on the the East Coast, and someone on the 218 00:13:22,920 --> 00:13:26,040 West Coast needs, needs this, then we'll route it 219 00:13:26,040 --> 00:13:28,980 electronically and then mail it from somewhere closer. So it 220 00:13:28,980 --> 00:13:31,620 seems like the the timing is very important when it comes to 221 00:13:31,620 --> 00:13:36,000 this whole direct mail thing. And what also interests me as 222 00:13:36,000 --> 00:13:38,700 far as some of these systems, because I sometimes use them in 223 00:13:38,700 --> 00:13:42,120 my business, how they can, they have APIs, right? You can hook 224 00:13:42,120 --> 00:13:46,560 up with your existing CRM, so you say, you can kind of run 225 00:13:46,560 --> 00:13:49,500 your existing data and say, Hey, here's my list. I'll blast this 226 00:13:49,500 --> 00:13:53,760 to this group. Or, even better, if they click on this link or 227 00:13:53,760 --> 00:13:56,550 open this email, then I'll fire off something like that. And so 228 00:13:56,610 --> 00:14:00,510 what kind of amazing, like use cases have you seen with the Air 229 00:14:00,510 --> 00:14:02,970 Rail. As far as people doing that, like connecting it to 230 00:14:02,970 --> 00:14:04,170 their existing systems, 231 00:14:06,750 --> 00:14:10,770 Wilson Zehr: we do have APIs in place, and we have a number of, 232 00:14:10,800 --> 00:14:14,430 you know, we have some response portals, so Indian solutions 233 00:14:14,430 --> 00:14:19,170 that people use for mortgage marketing. You could we've had, 234 00:14:19,170 --> 00:14:23,460 in the past, we've had some mortgage brokers use, you know, 235 00:14:23,460 --> 00:14:27,420 connect our system to their CRM and use it both for outbound and 236 00:14:27,420 --> 00:14:32,010 inbound fulfillment. So we have a lot of applications like that. 237 00:14:32,250 --> 00:14:34,530 The interesting, that's one of the things that's interesting 238 00:14:34,530 --> 00:14:38,730 about Sarah mail, not only the speed. I mean, traditionally, if 239 00:14:38,730 --> 00:14:42,060 you're thinking about direct mail, people plan seven to 10 240 00:14:42,060 --> 00:14:45,030 days. I mean, you know, they're thinking way out for us. You 241 00:14:45,030 --> 00:14:47,400 could, you could come up with an idea this afternoon, be in the 242 00:14:47,400 --> 00:14:51,600 mail tomorrow. And so that, you know, it gives you a lot more 243 00:14:51,600 --> 00:14:54,150 flexibility in terms of planning. It gets a lot more 244 00:14:54,150 --> 00:14:57,660 precision in terms of timing. And then, as you say, you can 245 00:14:57,660 --> 00:15:01,200 tie that to other applications as needed. It using something 246 00:15:01,200 --> 00:15:07,680 like an API. We could do more that, but, but the advantages 247 00:15:07,680 --> 00:15:11,340 that we because we're a digital platform, we have we it's really 248 00:15:11,340 --> 00:15:14,850 easy for us to tie applications into it. We can do all kinds of 249 00:15:14,850 --> 00:15:18,570 interesting things, like, for example, if you, if you uploaded 250 00:15:18,570 --> 00:15:21,630 a very large mailing we could slice it. We can cut it into 251 00:15:21,630 --> 00:15:25,380 pieces and put do pieces at different production facilities, 252 00:15:25,620 --> 00:15:29,100 everything it's we we mails tracked so you get tracking 253 00:15:29,100 --> 00:15:32,370 links, and we don't charge anything extra for that. You get 254 00:15:32,370 --> 00:15:39,480 email confirmation when things have been delivered. We do, I 255 00:15:39,480 --> 00:15:41,760 don't know. We have all kinds of interesting applications, 256 00:15:41,760 --> 00:15:45,930 because we have, because we, you know, we have software, and we 257 00:15:45,930 --> 00:15:50,610 have our content, and, you know, the the mail piece you upload is 258 00:15:50,640 --> 00:15:54,210 digital, so we have a lot of flexibility with how we format 259 00:15:54,210 --> 00:15:56,910 it, how we deliver it, and what kind of transformations we can 260 00:15:56,910 --> 00:15:57,240 make. 261 00:15:58,590 --> 00:16:01,230 Robert Plank: So we thought of a lot of cool things. 262 00:16:01,800 --> 00:16:03,840 Wilson Zehr: Yeah, I saw an application the other day. We've 263 00:16:03,840 --> 00:16:08,370 we've worked on a couple times that each each postcard that 264 00:16:08,370 --> 00:16:11,640 goes out has a personalized QR code, and that QR code, when you 265 00:16:11,640 --> 00:16:14,940 scan it, will go to a specific website, but because the 266 00:16:14,940 --> 00:16:19,110 information is encoded in the URL, in the QR code, the person, 267 00:16:19,110 --> 00:16:21,750 when the person goes to the website, that website content is 268 00:16:21,750 --> 00:16:24,630 personalized to the recipient, that is 269 00:16:25,640 --> 00:16:29,240 Robert Plank: and a lot easier to do these days. And it was 270 00:16:29,240 --> 00:16:32,300 maybe 1520, years ago, right? There's all these systems where 271 00:16:32,360 --> 00:16:36,380 you can perform this kind of personalization, and it's 272 00:16:36,380 --> 00:16:39,020 sometimes fun to do like I remember I used to do a thing. I 273 00:16:39,020 --> 00:16:42,400 have to have a sequence where, when someone bought we would 274 00:16:42,400 --> 00:16:45,040 look them up on social media and, like, send them a postcard 275 00:16:45,040 --> 00:16:47,200 with their picture on it, and it's like, they're going to look 276 00:16:47,200 --> 00:16:49,840 at that, right? Who would throw that in the garbage? So it's 277 00:16:49,840 --> 00:16:52,660 like, it's cool to think about the possibilities as far as the 278 00:16:52,660 --> 00:16:56,260 hyper personalization there, including the link tracking the 279 00:16:56,260 --> 00:17:00,480 scan a QR code, and you know that they the post card or the 280 00:17:00,480 --> 00:17:04,140 letter ended up there. And so, you know, since it's a podcast, 281 00:17:04,140 --> 00:17:07,620 it's always fun to talk about mistakes. And so when, like, 282 00:17:07,620 --> 00:17:11,700 what kind of mistakes have you made, or have you seen in all 283 00:17:11,700 --> 00:17:14,820 your travels, right? You've built this amazing company with 284 00:17:14,820 --> 00:17:18,480 send Dick since Air Mail, you've done startups, you you've 285 00:17:18,480 --> 00:17:20,960 taught, you've been around for decades. Like, is there, like, a 286 00:17:20,960 --> 00:17:24,980 number one mistake that you see business owners, entrepreneurs 287 00:17:25,280 --> 00:17:27,080 make all the time, repeatedly? 288 00:17:29,180 --> 00:17:31,220 Wilson Zehr: Well, if you're talking particularly about 289 00:17:31,220 --> 00:17:36,140 direct mail, I mean, there's the there's a formula we use. You 290 00:17:36,140 --> 00:17:38,540 know, basically, if you think about what makes a direct mail 291 00:17:38,540 --> 00:17:45,940 campaign effective, it's about 70% lists, 70% list, you know, 292 00:17:46,000 --> 00:17:50,800 20% offer and 10% creative. So the creative, especially in a 293 00:17:50,800 --> 00:17:54,580 postcard, helps get people's attention. But if you want 294 00:17:54,580 --> 00:17:57,940 people to actually buy something, you know, either go 295 00:17:57,940 --> 00:18:00,780 to a website or pick up the phone and call then you have to 296 00:18:00,780 --> 00:18:04,620 have the right offer, and that offer has to be the right offer 297 00:18:04,620 --> 00:18:07,740 for the person you're reaching out to. So, you know, just like 298 00:18:07,740 --> 00:18:12,480 any, any kind of sales, I mean, you need to identify the right 299 00:18:12,480 --> 00:18:16,380 prospect and then figure out what you know, what benefit 300 00:18:16,380 --> 00:18:19,500 you're going to provide, what benefit you you can provide that 301 00:18:19,500 --> 00:18:22,880 they can't do without. And if you do that, good things happen. 302 00:18:22,880 --> 00:18:26,480 So sometimes we see people with the you know, that aren't 303 00:18:26,480 --> 00:18:29,060 targeting the right audience, or if they are targeting the right 304 00:18:29,060 --> 00:18:32,900 audience, the what they're asking for is either not 305 00:18:32,900 --> 00:18:36,320 attractive or not feasible. And then, of course, I've seen some 306 00:18:36,620 --> 00:18:40,280 some really wild stuff where there's actually no response 307 00:18:40,940 --> 00:18:45,160 mechanism. So either the phone number doesn't, nobody put a 308 00:18:45,160 --> 00:18:49,300 phone number on it, or the phone number is wrong, or though the 309 00:18:49,660 --> 00:18:54,160 Earl that's on the piece doesn't go to a live page. So I mean, we 310 00:18:54,160 --> 00:18:57,460 have to make sure that people can respond to it as if we're 311 00:18:57,460 --> 00:19:02,040 asking for them to respond. I actually had one high profile 312 00:19:02,220 --> 00:19:06,240 thing years and years ago, and when we first started Sarah mail 313 00:19:06,960 --> 00:19:14,580 and 1999 where we had a very large Association based in 314 00:19:14,580 --> 00:19:20,180 Washington DC, send out a direct mail campaign to 1000s of 315 00:19:20,180 --> 00:19:23,240 people, and they put the wrong phone number on it. And 316 00:19:23,240 --> 00:19:26,900 unfortunately for the marketing manager who sent this out, he 317 00:19:26,900 --> 00:19:30,860 actually put his boss's phone number on it, so everybody that 318 00:19:30,860 --> 00:19:36,980 called back called his boss. And needless to say, he wasn't very 319 00:19:36,980 --> 00:19:40,660 happy with that. But I mean, we can only produce what you give 320 00:19:40,660 --> 00:19:44,080 us. So that was unfortunate 321 00:19:46,060 --> 00:19:49,120 Robert Plank: due to the permanency of physical mail. I'm 322 00:19:49,120 --> 00:19:53,320 sure that happens a lot, right? You make a mistake, you don't 323 00:19:53,320 --> 00:19:57,040 check it, and then 1000s of letters postcards go out that 324 00:19:57,040 --> 00:19:57,340 way. 325 00:19:59,020 --> 00:20:03,180 Wilson Zehr: It can happen. I mean, I think we try, we try to 326 00:20:03,180 --> 00:20:06,060 check everything we see come through. So, I mean, we try to 327 00:20:06,060 --> 00:20:09,960 do our best to mitigate that. And in fact, we'll prove things, 328 00:20:09,960 --> 00:20:13,860 we read things and try to help our customers everywhere we can. 329 00:20:14,400 --> 00:20:19,800 But I mean, there are some cases where, well, let me say this, so 330 00:20:20,100 --> 00:20:24,860 a lot of times, one of the questions that comes up is, how 331 00:20:24,860 --> 00:20:27,920 do you track your email campaigns or your direct mail 332 00:20:27,920 --> 00:20:30,860 campaigns? Maybe you're sending out multiple campaigns, and the 333 00:20:30,860 --> 00:20:33,620 way a lot of people do that is they'll use a pool of toll free 334 00:20:33,620 --> 00:20:36,620 numbers and to put a different toll free number on each piece. 335 00:20:36,800 --> 00:20:39,860 So that way you can attribute, you know, you can do the 336 00:20:39,860 --> 00:20:44,920 attribution, you know, from the response to the piece. But I've 337 00:20:44,920 --> 00:20:47,800 seen people a number of times where they'll have a list in 338 00:20:47,800 --> 00:20:52,060 Excel, and they'll grab the top cell, you know, grab the corner 339 00:20:52,060 --> 00:20:54,580 of it, and just pull down like they're going to copy and all 340 00:20:54,580 --> 00:20:57,820 those cells, of course, what the default in Excel when you do 341 00:20:57,820 --> 00:21:02,760 that is what it doesn't it just it just increments every cell. 342 00:21:03,000 --> 00:21:05,400 So you start with a number, do you get? The next one and the 343 00:21:05,400 --> 00:21:09,000 next one, next one, and so every record but the first one is 344 00:21:09,000 --> 00:21:16,560 wrong. That's the kind of thing we usually catch for customers, 345 00:21:16,560 --> 00:21:16,680 too. 346 00:21:18,720 --> 00:21:21,860 Robert Plank: Well, funny, well, and I had a friend once where, 347 00:21:21,920 --> 00:21:24,980 decades ago, he sent out postcards, and he got the the 348 00:21:24,980 --> 00:21:28,460 mail merging wrong, and he sent 1000s to one person, and every 349 00:21:28,460 --> 00:21:30,920 day, the mailman was bringing in, like, bags of the same 350 00:21:30,920 --> 00:21:34,520 postcard. He's like, okay, fine, I'll buy I get the hit. It's 351 00:21:34,520 --> 00:21:36,860 like, no, like, you're supposed to get one. They're supposed to 352 00:21:36,860 --> 00:21:39,980 got the 1000s and so. But so, yeah, it's and it seems like 353 00:21:39,980 --> 00:21:42,020 it's just important to have common sense, right? You 354 00:21:42,020 --> 00:21:43,900 mentioned some of the mentioned some of these things, like 355 00:21:43,900 --> 00:21:47,140 marketing copywriting fundamentals. Make sure there's 356 00:21:47,140 --> 00:21:51,340 a call to action. Make sure that it kind of explains what the 357 00:21:51,340 --> 00:21:56,140 offer is. Make sure that what the link or the QR code, 358 00:21:56,140 --> 00:21:59,320 website, phone number, whatever it is, actually exists, like 359 00:21:59,440 --> 00:22:02,700 basic testing and that can, it's not, doesn't solve all your 360 00:22:02,700 --> 00:22:06,900 problems, but it sure takes down a lot of the headaches that may 361 00:22:06,900 --> 00:22:09,360 exist. And so, you know, we don't have a lot of time here. 362 00:22:09,360 --> 00:22:12,060 We're just here on a podcast to have a blip on our radar, to 363 00:22:12,060 --> 00:22:15,480 give people some awareness about you and direct mail and their 364 00:22:15,480 --> 00:22:19,200 mail. So in our final here minutes, here, Wilson, is there 365 00:22:19,320 --> 00:22:22,400 a missing, hidden question that I should be asking you. 366 00:22:26,180 --> 00:22:32,780 Wilson Zehr: There's probably a lot of time limited. You 367 00:22:32,780 --> 00:22:37,520 mentioned something before about a tip, or some, you know, maybe 368 00:22:37,640 --> 00:22:40,300 piece of advice, and I was thinking about that. And I 369 00:22:40,300 --> 00:22:42,880 think, you know, this comes up a lot. We talk about 370 00:22:42,880 --> 00:22:47,440 entrepreneurship. There's always this idea of or a distinction 371 00:22:47,440 --> 00:22:51,280 between working on the business and working in the business. And 372 00:22:51,280 --> 00:22:55,360 so often we get consumed with working in the business, and we 373 00:22:55,360 --> 00:22:59,380 we forget to work on the business. But, you know, time 374 00:22:59,380 --> 00:23:03,240 moves on, and technology, especially if we're not moving 375 00:23:03,240 --> 00:23:05,820 forward, we're sliding backwards. I mean, there's no 376 00:23:05,820 --> 00:23:12,300 stay there's no staying in one place. So the trick, but for us 377 00:23:12,300 --> 00:23:17,520 becomes, you know, executing in the moment, but still planning 378 00:23:17,520 --> 00:23:20,120 for the future. But you know, because the stuff that we're 379 00:23:20,120 --> 00:23:24,440 going to do tomorrow. Oftentimes we have to build it today. It's 380 00:23:24,440 --> 00:23:30,500 not we can't just wait until tomorrow and react so but they 381 00:23:30,500 --> 00:23:33,860 have the same tendency. You get so focused on this customer, 382 00:23:33,860 --> 00:23:36,800 this list, that's paying this bill, that that it's hard 383 00:23:36,800 --> 00:23:42,340 sometimes to to remain, you know, focused on the future as 384 00:23:42,340 --> 00:23:46,540 well, and planning or building for the future. And you have to 385 00:23:46,540 --> 00:23:49,180 be in order to be successful. I think you have to be able to do 386 00:23:49,180 --> 00:23:49,600 both. 387 00:23:50,860 --> 00:23:53,320 Robert Plank: And is there a secret to doing both? Is it a 388 00:23:53,320 --> 00:23:56,680 matter of discipline to have those dual mindsets, or like 389 00:23:56,740 --> 00:24:00,120 building a team that way there's enough horsepower to get it all 390 00:24:00,120 --> 00:24:04,140 done. How do we do the present, putting out the fires, to the 391 00:24:04,140 --> 00:24:06,240 clients, but also build for the future? 392 00:24:07,260 --> 00:24:10,260 Wilson Zehr: That's a great question. I and I wish I had all 393 00:24:10,260 --> 00:24:13,860 the answers. I don't think I do yet. I mean, I work on it every 394 00:24:13,860 --> 00:24:17,220 day, but it reminds me of, you know, I coach football, fields 395 00:24:17,220 --> 00:24:20,780 football for years and years and and one of the things I you 396 00:24:20,780 --> 00:24:24,380 know, I know, is that when you, when you run a play and you're 397 00:24:24,500 --> 00:24:26,840 like, you're passing the ball, you can't pass it to where the 398 00:24:26,840 --> 00:24:29,720 player is. You have to pass it to where they're going to be. 399 00:24:30,260 --> 00:24:33,260 And if, if that's well orchestrated, the player is 400 00:24:33,260 --> 00:24:35,960 going to be there to catch the ball, but sometimes they won't. 401 00:24:35,960 --> 00:24:39,500 So a lot of stuff we do for the future, too, is we make our best 402 00:24:39,500 --> 00:24:42,400 guess at what that's going to look like and what's important, 403 00:24:42,580 --> 00:24:46,300 and try to put the right pieces out there that we can use, 404 00:24:46,480 --> 00:24:49,960 knowing that some of those pieces we won't use. I mean, 405 00:24:49,960 --> 00:24:54,460 they, you know, some stuff, sometimes we guess wrong, right? 406 00:24:54,580 --> 00:24:57,580 But that's okay, because, you know, if we didn't guess at all, 407 00:24:57,580 --> 00:25:01,560 then we'd be totally flat footed. So I. I think that's, I 408 00:25:01,560 --> 00:25:05,580 mean, it has to be okay to sometimes, to to, you know, to 409 00:25:05,580 --> 00:25:09,780 be close once in a while, but certainly we'd like to maximize 410 00:25:09,780 --> 00:25:12,780 the amount of time where we get it right. And I think the more 411 00:25:12,780 --> 00:25:15,600 time you spend in your industry, the more time you're thinking 412 00:25:15,600 --> 00:25:18,660 about these problems and your customers, I think the more 413 00:25:18,660 --> 00:25:19,920 frequently you get it right. 414 00:25:22,920 --> 00:25:26,540 Robert Plank: I that's very reasonable, that it's important 415 00:25:26,540 --> 00:25:30,560 to stay educated all the time, and you know this with all your 416 00:25:30,620 --> 00:25:34,940 education, teaching degrees and to listen to podcasts, read 417 00:25:34,940 --> 00:25:39,500 books, talk to people and the soak up the intuitiveness that 418 00:25:39,500 --> 00:25:43,720 way when it comes time to make that best guess to figure out, 419 00:25:43,720 --> 00:25:47,740 well, what what company will I build, what feature or what 420 00:25:47,740 --> 00:25:52,540 software we try to market of what people will want soon? Then 421 00:25:52,600 --> 00:25:57,220 you are doing it based not just on random chance or not just on 422 00:25:57,220 --> 00:26:01,500 emotion, but based on data and also your own intuition that you 423 00:26:01,500 --> 00:26:04,500 have soaked up. So this, like you said, there's not an easy 424 00:26:04,500 --> 00:26:08,700 answer, but it's a deep question for us to think about, and it's 425 00:26:08,700 --> 00:26:11,520 good just to have this awareness on this kind of problem that we 426 00:26:11,520 --> 00:26:14,220 have and what we need to have on our minds. And speaking of the 427 00:26:14,220 --> 00:26:17,520 future, what are you excited about? What's up and coming with 428 00:26:17,520 --> 00:26:21,320 you in your business adventures with xermale? What's on the 429 00:26:21,320 --> 00:26:21,800 horizon? 430 00:26:24,080 --> 00:26:26,600 Wilson Zehr: That's a great question we have. We're working 431 00:26:26,600 --> 00:26:32,420 on a number of enhancements for Xero mail, where, if the newest 432 00:26:32,420 --> 00:26:35,420 product we just rolled out is something called speedy, you can 433 00:26:35,420 --> 00:26:39,200 download it on the website at WWW dot zair mail. So that's our 434 00:26:39,200 --> 00:26:44,020 service. Is air mail with a Z on the front. So www, dot Sarah 435 00:26:44,020 --> 00:26:50,320 mail.com/speedy, S, P, E, D, y, and there you can download the 436 00:26:50,320 --> 00:26:53,920 application for free. Basically, what it does is it gives you a 437 00:26:53,920 --> 00:26:56,920 desktop icon, and then, if you want us, you know, if you have a 438 00:26:56,920 --> 00:27:00,120 document, you can drop it on that icon. It'll ask you for an 439 00:27:00,120 --> 00:27:03,720 address, and you can address it, it'll send it out as mail, as 440 00:27:03,720 --> 00:27:08,880 you as post mail, even one piece, so it makes it faster, 441 00:27:08,880 --> 00:27:11,760 easier, less expensive, but, you know, just completely 442 00:27:11,760 --> 00:27:14,160 convenient. You don't have to find a stamp, you don't have to 443 00:27:14,160 --> 00:27:18,420 find an envelope, and if you download it, try right now, the 444 00:27:18,420 --> 00:27:20,600 first two letters are free, so it doesn't cost anything, 445 00:27:20,600 --> 00:27:26,180 either. So I think that's a really powerful tool today, and 446 00:27:26,180 --> 00:27:29,180 I know for most consumers, they never see something. There's 447 00:27:29,180 --> 00:27:31,760 something called a postal meter, and it's used in a lot of 448 00:27:31,760 --> 00:27:35,240 businesses, especially larger businesses. And you slide, when 449 00:27:35,240 --> 00:27:37,400 you have a letter to mail, you slide your letter through it, 450 00:27:37,580 --> 00:27:42,880 and it puts postage on it. But with, you know, in the industry, 451 00:27:45,040 --> 00:27:47,920 a lot of people despise those machines because they have a lot 452 00:27:47,920 --> 00:27:51,700 of they they cost money. And then this is another piece of 453 00:27:51,760 --> 00:27:54,100 hardware to maintain. You need to have space for it. You need 454 00:27:54,100 --> 00:27:58,540 to maintain it, etc. But with a tool like speedy, you don't need 455 00:27:58,540 --> 00:28:02,040 to do that anymore. You can just drop a letter or a series of 456 00:28:02,040 --> 00:28:07,260 letters on this desktop icon, and out they go and and we just, 457 00:28:07,260 --> 00:28:11,880 when we get them, we, you know, we commingle them, we barcode 458 00:28:12,000 --> 00:28:14,700 them, we ship them. We're going to give you tracking on it, and 459 00:28:14,700 --> 00:28:16,920 we'll send you an email confirmation when it's actually 460 00:28:16,920 --> 00:28:22,700 delivered. So complete, end to end, the solution, we're also 461 00:28:22,700 --> 00:28:26,900 looking at different ways of pulling a list, getting 462 00:28:27,020 --> 00:28:32,000 additional list and demographics so we can target more precisely, 463 00:28:33,200 --> 00:28:35,840 and we're always looking to speed the process through 464 00:28:35,840 --> 00:28:40,120 automation. I mean, a lot of if you're a consumer today and you 465 00:28:40,120 --> 00:28:44,560 want to send out direct mail. You had 500 postcards. It's 466 00:28:44,560 --> 00:28:47,140 actually not easy to do that. I mean, you have to. You would 467 00:28:47,140 --> 00:28:50,200 have to print the postcards, put labels on and put a stamp on it, 468 00:28:50,380 --> 00:28:52,720 maybe take it to post office. They probably charge you full 469 00:28:52,720 --> 00:28:56,200 retail on that with a tool like sermon, because we're automated. 470 00:28:56,200 --> 00:28:59,500 It's really easy for us. I mean, we just, you just upload the 471 00:28:59,500 --> 00:29:02,880 postcard in the list, and we take care of it everything. You 472 00:29:02,880 --> 00:29:05,880 get advantages as long as 500 piece or more, you get the 473 00:29:05,880 --> 00:29:08,760 advantage of the pre sort and the speed of delivery and the 474 00:29:08,760 --> 00:29:13,680 tracking. So we continue to refine that solution. And then, 475 00:29:13,680 --> 00:29:16,320 as you talked out, there's other applications that we can 476 00:29:16,320 --> 00:29:20,480 integrate external applications. So we do that with customers. 477 00:29:20,480 --> 00:29:23,060 And in particular, we've been looking at the international 478 00:29:23,060 --> 00:29:26,180 market too, because there's still a lot of countries where 479 00:29:26,180 --> 00:29:30,440 people are send mail to the US, US. And you know, if you're 480 00:29:30,440 --> 00:29:33,440 buying international postage from Europe and sending to send 481 00:29:33,440 --> 00:29:36,680 a letter to us, that's expensive, and that letter, when 482 00:29:36,680 --> 00:29:39,980 you send it, you know it may make it on a plane or it might 483 00:29:39,980 --> 00:29:42,820 make it on a boat. It may show up in two weeks, but if you're 484 00:29:42,820 --> 00:29:45,880 sending it with their mail, it'll be there this week. You 485 00:29:45,880 --> 00:29:47,500 know, yeah. 486 00:29:49,000 --> 00:29:52,000 Robert Plank: I mean, so they're on that's a cool innovation 487 00:29:52,000 --> 00:29:55,540 that, like, you kind of like, teleport most of the way there 488 00:29:55,540 --> 00:29:58,360 and then send the letter the remainder. It's a cool idea. 489 00:29:58,660 --> 00:29:58,780 Yeah. 490 00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:02,340 Wilson Zehr: Yeah, super fast, and once again, it's better for 491 00:30:02,340 --> 00:30:03,240 the environment too. 492 00:30:04,500 --> 00:30:07,260 Robert Plank: Well, you definitely are an innovator. 493 00:30:07,260 --> 00:30:11,160 You're a creator. And you just have me thinking about all these 494 00:30:11,160 --> 00:30:14,640 possibilities, right, all these things that could be done. And 495 00:30:14,640 --> 00:30:17,760 what I'm getting also near the end here is just this idea that 496 00:30:17,820 --> 00:30:21,380 you know you you could waste time, or you could do a lot of 497 00:30:21,380 --> 00:30:26,780 the DIY yourself, but it gets so old and you make mistakes, it 498 00:30:26,780 --> 00:30:29,960 wastes time. And if you say, Oh, well, it's just a few postcards, 499 00:30:29,960 --> 00:30:33,200 but it's like, how many hours to print it and mess it up and 500 00:30:33,200 --> 00:30:35,480 reprint it? Oh, it's just going to the post office. Well, how 501 00:30:35,480 --> 00:30:39,620 many more hours is that? There's definitely this value in saying, 502 00:30:39,620 --> 00:30:43,300 Hey, I run this kind of business, and I want to send 503 00:30:43,300 --> 00:30:46,180 some postcards. I want to send some letters. Let me just click 504 00:30:46,180 --> 00:30:49,180 a button and have the people at zero mail do it. Let me just 505 00:30:49,180 --> 00:30:52,960 drop that, that document into the speedy icon on my desktop 506 00:30:53,080 --> 00:30:56,380 and go about my day and go back to my business and do what I do, 507 00:30:56,380 --> 00:31:00,240 well, what I excel at, and then let the people at zarem do what 508 00:31:00,240 --> 00:31:04,320 they do so you're definitely, uh, this person that has created 509 00:31:04,320 --> 00:31:07,500 this amazing service and this amazing desktop app. We said 510 00:31:07,500 --> 00:31:14,640 that the website is Z, a, I R, M, a, I l.com/speedy, just send 511 00:31:14,640 --> 00:31:18,300 those first two letters free to check out speedy and then zero 512 00:31:18,300 --> 00:31:23,900 mail.com to use this service where you can send your postal 513 00:31:23,900 --> 00:31:27,680 mail. You can integrate it with your systems. It's really cool 514 00:31:27,680 --> 00:31:30,740 to have this awareness of this marketing channel, which at the 515 00:31:30,740 --> 00:31:33,320 at the beginning here of our discussion, here, Wilson, you 516 00:31:33,320 --> 00:31:35,900 were kind of saying that mail is on the decline, right? Some 517 00:31:35,900 --> 00:31:39,320 people do the paper lists, and you know, you definitely don't 518 00:31:39,320 --> 00:31:42,340 get the same amount of like junk and catalogs you used to in the 519 00:31:42,340 --> 00:31:46,240 mail. So it seems like this is something worth pursuing when 520 00:31:46,240 --> 00:31:49,060 people are always bragging about this, like omnichannel marketing 521 00:31:49,060 --> 00:31:52,780 idea, right? Market on different platforms. What about one of the 522 00:31:52,780 --> 00:31:56,740 oldest platforms that predates TV, predates everything else? 523 00:31:56,740 --> 00:32:00,160 Right? The postal mail and send that marketing message, wake 524 00:32:00,160 --> 00:32:03,840 some people up, make it a part of your overall campaign, and 525 00:32:03,840 --> 00:32:07,200 you can get enthused and excited about all the possibilities, 526 00:32:07,200 --> 00:32:10,260 like you mentioned about like, cutting up the list to different 527 00:32:10,260 --> 00:32:13,860 demographics, and unless the follow ups so many amazing 528 00:32:14,160 --> 00:32:18,840 possibilities and opportunities their mail.com and as we're 529 00:32:18,840 --> 00:32:21,260 closing the door in our conversation here, Wilson, do 530 00:32:21,260 --> 00:32:24,740 you have any final parting words of advice, anything to encourage 531 00:32:24,740 --> 00:32:28,580 people to go to zero mail or just inspire the next generation 532 00:32:28,580 --> 00:32:29,660 of entrepreneurs? 533 00:32:31,100 --> 00:32:33,920 Wilson Zehr: I would say, if you've got an idea, you know, 534 00:32:35,000 --> 00:32:37,880 get off the couch and make it real. I mean, that's the only 535 00:32:37,880 --> 00:32:41,080 difference between successful entrepreneurs and everybody else 536 00:32:41,080 --> 00:32:45,100 is entrepreneurs get in the game, and then they put some 537 00:32:45,100 --> 00:32:48,160 points on the board. I mean, so I would encourage everybody, you 538 00:32:48,160 --> 00:32:53,200 got a great idea, you know, just pursue it and make it real 100% 539 00:32:53,860 --> 00:32:55,780 Robert Plank: just do it. Take some action. Take that 540 00:32:55,780 --> 00:32:59,560 calculated risk, and the very first step in you pursuing it 541 00:32:59,620 --> 00:33:03,900 and marketing your idea. Go to zair, mail.com, watch the video. 542 00:33:03,900 --> 00:33:07,380 Start now. Create an account, start using it. Make it a part 543 00:33:07,380 --> 00:33:09,960 of your business, your marketing, your customer, follow 544 00:33:09,960 --> 00:33:13,620 up, your awareness, whatever you have as far as a marketing 545 00:33:13,620 --> 00:33:19,740 problem to solve, Z, a, I R, M, a, I l.com, zero mail.com, and 546 00:33:19,740 --> 00:33:23,060 Mr. Wilson there. It's been fabulous and enjoyable speaking 547 00:33:23,060 --> 00:33:23,360 with you. 548 00:33:24,080 --> 00:33:25,820 Wilson Zehr: No, it's been great. Thank you, Robert, thank 549 00:33:25,820 --> 00:33:29,060 you so much for having me on. It's gonna it's been a blast. Do 550 00:33:32,120 --> 00:33:35,180 Robert Plank: you wish you had a podcast just like this one? Do 551 00:33:35,180 --> 00:33:38,120 you wish you did more with your podcast, like getting more 552 00:33:38,120 --> 00:33:41,920 traffic, being active on social media, getting more guests, 553 00:33:41,980 --> 00:33:45,580 better guests, or you being a guest on other podcasts, or 554 00:33:45,580 --> 00:33:48,880 maybe you just want your podcast to say the same, but you don't 555 00:33:48,880 --> 00:33:52,300 want the time commitment you currently put into your podcast. 556 00:33:52,300 --> 00:33:55,780 If any or all of that sounds great to you, go right now to D, 557 00:33:55,780 --> 00:34:02,140 F, y, podcast.com/free to claim your 12 podcast boosters. You.