1 00:00:00,300 --> 00:00:03,960 Robert Plank: Marketer of the Day episode 712 get attention 2 00:00:03,960 --> 00:00:12,120 from viral videos with Adam Lundquist. Hey everyone, and 3 00:00:12,120 --> 00:00:15,060 welcome back to the marketer of the day podcast. We are here 4 00:00:15,060 --> 00:00:19,800 with Adam Lundquist, from nerds do it better.com and Adam is a 5 00:00:19,800 --> 00:00:23,960 Harvard educated agency owner. He's a former radio shock jock 6 00:00:23,960 --> 00:00:28,280 from Santa Barbara radio. And if you do some digging, if you look 7 00:00:28,280 --> 00:00:31,700 into Adam's history, he was responsible for one of the very 8 00:00:31,700 --> 00:00:35,900 first viral videos on YouTube. So we'll unpack some of that. He 9 00:00:35,900 --> 00:00:38,180 has all sorts of accomplishments. He is a 10 00:00:38,180 --> 00:00:42,220 featured author in Search Engine Journal PPC hero word stream. 11 00:00:42,280 --> 00:00:46,000 His company is called nerds do it better, and they consistently 12 00:00:46,000 --> 00:00:50,020 deliver paid search campaigns utilizing advanced statistical 13 00:00:50,020 --> 00:00:53,740 analysis that he developed at Harvard. So we are going to talk 14 00:00:53,800 --> 00:00:57,340 about how Adam and his team can remove inefficiencies in your 15 00:00:57,340 --> 00:01:01,020 marketing, how they can generate more customers for you in a 16 00:01:01,020 --> 00:01:04,320 consistent basis and in a cost effective way, ticks all the 17 00:01:04,320 --> 00:01:07,020 boxes. Adam, glad to be talking to you 18 00:01:07,020 --> 00:01:09,180 Adam Lundquist: same here. I couldn't have, Couldn't have 19 00:01:09,180 --> 00:01:11,760 said it better if I wrote it myself. Cool, yeah, 20 00:01:11,820 --> 00:01:14,520 Robert Plank: yeah. And that's a little inside joke there. So, so 21 00:01:14,520 --> 00:01:17,220 yeah, like right off the bat, hearing about you're reading 22 00:01:17,220 --> 00:01:21,560 your bio, so you are responsible for one of these first viral 23 00:01:21,560 --> 00:01:25,040 videos on YouTube. So can you tell us about that? Can you tell 24 00:01:25,040 --> 00:01:27,380 us, like, what it's called, where to find it? What happened 25 00:01:27,380 --> 00:01:27,680 there? 26 00:01:28,820 --> 00:01:31,880 Adam Lundquist: Yeah, definitely. So, um, growing up, 27 00:01:31,880 --> 00:01:34,340 I grew up in Boston, Massachusetts, and, uh, we 28 00:01:34,760 --> 00:01:37,040 didn't have, like, movie stars there, and it was before, like, 29 00:01:37,040 --> 00:01:39,440 Ben Affleck and stuff. I you kind of had two options. If you 30 00:01:39,440 --> 00:01:42,040 wanted to do something kind of big. You either did a radio or 31 00:01:42,040 --> 00:01:46,360 sports, and sports wasn't gonna happen for me. Let's just put it 32 00:01:46,360 --> 00:01:49,960 that way. So I knew I wanted to be a radio person, so I moved to 33 00:01:49,960 --> 00:01:52,720 Santa Barbara, and eventually got my own morning show. And 34 00:01:52,720 --> 00:01:57,160 this was around like 2006 or 2007 when this, this part of the 35 00:01:57,160 --> 00:01:59,920 story is taking place. So I had a morning show in the morning, 36 00:01:59,920 --> 00:02:03,540 like a like a shock jock, and I could kind of see the writing on 37 00:02:03,540 --> 00:02:07,200 the wall that radio is going to go down because radio is ad 38 00:02:07,200 --> 00:02:10,620 supported, right? So the only reason you can listen to your 39 00:02:10,620 --> 00:02:14,280 favorite shows are because the ads are paying for them. And as 40 00:02:14,280 --> 00:02:16,920 a side note, for millennials, a radio is what we used to listen 41 00:02:16,920 --> 00:02:19,920 to, to to hear music, but it doesn't, doesn't seem to be a 42 00:02:19,920 --> 00:02:24,920 thing anymore. But around that time, YouTube was starting, so 43 00:02:24,920 --> 00:02:27,260 it was very easy for me to get whoever I wanted on the show, 44 00:02:27,260 --> 00:02:29,660 because in Santa Barbara, all the celebrities came through. We 45 00:02:29,660 --> 00:02:32,480 had like Hillary Clinton on Clint Eastwood. I just didn't it 46 00:02:32,480 --> 00:02:36,440 was just relatively easy for me to get them. And I started to do 47 00:02:36,440 --> 00:02:39,680 a video interview to see what would happen. So I went down to 48 00:02:39,680 --> 00:02:44,200 the local the local gym, like the local sports gym, and it's 49 00:02:44,200 --> 00:02:47,560 where the LA Clippers did their their summer practice. So the 50 00:02:47,560 --> 00:02:51,160 Clippers did it in City College. The Lakers did at UCSB. So you 51 00:02:51,160 --> 00:02:53,560 were just all around sports people. And I did an interview 52 00:02:53,560 --> 00:02:56,500 with this guy, Sam Cassell, who, at the time was a pretty big 53 00:02:56,500 --> 00:02:59,260 basketball player, but more importantly, was known for 54 00:02:59,260 --> 00:03:03,720 mainly looking like an alien. So I asked him a bunch of 55 00:03:03,720 --> 00:03:06,960 questions, basically all regarding him looking like an 56 00:03:06,960 --> 00:03:10,200 alien. And you can imagine how that interview went very well. 57 00:03:10,860 --> 00:03:15,600 And the next day, I posted on YouTube, and literally nothing 58 00:03:15,600 --> 00:03:19,560 happened, nothing. I left it there for a week or two, and I 59 00:03:19,560 --> 00:03:22,400 was just like, oh, well, maybe this isn't as easy as I thought 60 00:03:22,400 --> 00:03:26,420 it was going to be. So I started learning and seeing, like, what 61 00:03:26,420 --> 00:03:29,720 could I do to get more video views on this video? So I 62 00:03:29,720 --> 00:03:32,300 started to reach out to blogs that I liked at the time. I 63 00:03:32,300 --> 00:03:36,140 think Barstool Sports was pretty big. Sports Illustrated was 64 00:03:36,140 --> 00:03:39,980 pretty big, I guess probably still is, and seeing what it was 65 00:03:39,980 --> 00:03:43,240 that got people to actually put my video on their blog. Because 66 00:03:43,240 --> 00:03:45,460 if you just say, Hey, I got a video we put on a blog, like, 67 00:03:45,460 --> 00:03:49,240 people are gonna be like, no. But if you instead say, hey, 68 00:03:49,240 --> 00:03:51,280 look, this is good for your audience, you know, this is 69 00:03:51,280 --> 00:03:54,160 different. This is outrageous, like, whatever I started to 70 00:03:54,160 --> 00:03:58,060 learn and just like, basically stumbled into AB testing, so I 71 00:03:58,060 --> 00:04:01,440 would be testing headline versus headline, just to see what kind 72 00:04:01,440 --> 00:04:05,700 of got reactions. And the video, it blew up. It was a Sports 73 00:04:05,700 --> 00:04:08,700 Illustrated. It's number seven viral video of all time. It got 74 00:04:08,700 --> 00:04:12,780 me on best the best damn sports show, Best Week Ever, all sorts 75 00:04:12,780 --> 00:04:16,140 of stuff. And that was kind of I got into the whole like, whoa. 76 00:04:16,140 --> 00:04:20,360 The internet's amazing thing. It was just so much better and so 77 00:04:20,360 --> 00:04:24,680 much more profitable than radio was. And then when I left radio, 78 00:04:24,680 --> 00:04:29,300 we got fired on Friday the 13th, I got hired to run six other 79 00:04:29,300 --> 00:04:32,180 radio stations, internet presence that just kind of took 80 00:04:32,180 --> 00:04:32,540 off from 81 00:04:33,320 --> 00:04:35,060 Robert Plank: there. Nice. Well, I mean, there's so much to 82 00:04:35,060 --> 00:04:38,300 unpack there. And one thing that I'm hearing from you is that 83 00:04:38,300 --> 00:04:41,860 you're, you seem like a pretty curious person, right? That 84 00:04:41,860 --> 00:04:44,740 you're not just the kind of person to keep on going through 85 00:04:44,740 --> 00:04:48,220 the motions, and even if the writing's on the wall and things 86 00:04:48,220 --> 00:04:51,280 like radio might be going downhill there, you're not just 87 00:04:51,280 --> 00:04:54,880 one to sit and wait for things to happen to you. You go out and 88 00:04:54,880 --> 00:04:57,940 see what you can do. And then I'm also hearing kind of like 89 00:04:58,000 --> 00:05:00,540 that logical side there where you say, well, you. You kind of 90 00:05:00,540 --> 00:05:03,180 did, like the AB testing sort of thing, right? Like you said, let 91 00:05:03,180 --> 00:05:06,480 me try sending out these cold emails with this headline or 92 00:05:06,480 --> 00:05:10,200 that headline, just to, just to sort of see what happens. And 93 00:05:10,200 --> 00:05:14,280 then also, I think a really important lesson in here is that 94 00:05:14,340 --> 00:05:17,280 you're not doing it on your own, right. You're involving other 95 00:05:17,280 --> 00:05:21,560 people. You had, you reached out to these celebrities who were 96 00:05:21,560 --> 00:05:23,900 going through town to have on your show. You were trying to 97 00:05:23,900 --> 00:05:26,780 get more views. You weren't just playing around with ads or 98 00:05:26,780 --> 00:05:29,840 trying to tweak the system. You were actually reaching out to 99 00:05:29,840 --> 00:05:33,440 people who already had audiences. So that way you can 100 00:05:33,440 --> 00:05:36,140 just kind of tap into their their network, tap into their 101 00:05:36,140 --> 00:05:38,540 traffic, which, I mean, these are all kind of marketing 102 00:05:38,540 --> 00:05:41,380 fundamentals, really simple things here. But, I mean, 103 00:05:41,380 --> 00:05:45,700 they're super important, right? That we need to be curious. And 104 00:05:45,700 --> 00:05:48,640 instead of just kind of hammering away at the content or 105 00:05:48,640 --> 00:05:52,300 the interviews, look for what the goal is, right? Look where 106 00:05:52,300 --> 00:05:55,120 the views are, and then involve other people. So, I mean, I love 107 00:05:55,120 --> 00:05:57,880 the story. I mean, I think there's all kinds of little fun 108 00:05:57,940 --> 00:06:00,300 nuggets people can get out of this. Yeah, 109 00:06:00,300 --> 00:06:02,220 Adam Lundquist: people do like it. And one thing that I think 110 00:06:02,220 --> 00:06:04,980 is the, probably the most valuable thing i'll see on the 111 00:06:04,980 --> 00:06:08,520 show is that the internet isn't magic. I thought it was. I was 112 00:06:08,520 --> 00:06:11,280 like, put this up on YouTube and it'll go viral. Definitely. 113 00:06:11,880 --> 00:06:16,440 There is so much content, so many ads, so many things that I 114 00:06:16,620 --> 00:06:19,260 kind of run into every day, where people are like, hey, you 115 00:06:19,260 --> 00:06:21,620 know, if I put up this web page? Is it gonna be the next eBay? 116 00:06:22,220 --> 00:06:26,060 Probably not, definitely not, if you don't work at it. So a lot 117 00:06:26,060 --> 00:06:29,180 of what I try to do with people is think about things 118 00:06:29,180 --> 00:06:32,840 systematically, in an organized kind of way that's really 119 00:06:32,840 --> 00:06:36,560 important for me and for anyone like same not just like getting 120 00:06:36,560 --> 00:06:39,980 views. I mean, even to the point where you know what a lot of I 121 00:06:39,980 --> 00:06:43,240 do is generate leads for people. You still have to close the 122 00:06:43,240 --> 00:06:47,080 leads. Like, the nature of it is like, yes, the internet's 123 00:06:47,080 --> 00:06:50,860 amazing. It can scale. You can target people very, really, 124 00:06:51,040 --> 00:06:54,760 minutely, granularly, whatever you wanna call it. But at the 125 00:06:54,760 --> 00:06:57,220 end of the day, it's still the real world. You still have to 126 00:06:57,220 --> 00:07:01,080 close the leads. You still have to close the sales. And you 127 00:07:01,080 --> 00:07:03,180 know, it's still business, yeah. 128 00:07:03,180 --> 00:07:05,160 Robert Plank: And even, like, you know, going back to the 129 00:07:05,160 --> 00:07:08,640 marketing fundamentals again, it's like my mind was blown a 130 00:07:08,640 --> 00:07:11,340 little bit when someone said, like, think about the path 131 00:07:11,340 --> 00:07:14,100 someone takes to get to your website. And, like, it seems 132 00:07:14,100 --> 00:07:16,620 like a really dumb moment, but it's easy to get caught up in. 133 00:07:16,620 --> 00:07:19,440 Well, let me just put up web pages and think, Well, someone 134 00:07:19,440 --> 00:07:23,300 had this, this specific problem. Someone went to this Google 135 00:07:23,300 --> 00:07:26,360 search, someone checked out these YouTube videos, maybe they 136 00:07:26,360 --> 00:07:30,020 saw your ad, or maybe some affiliate link to something, 137 00:07:30,020 --> 00:07:32,660 but, I mean, that's just one of those things that kind of like 138 00:07:32,660 --> 00:07:36,380 you're saying, the internet is not magic. People still exist. 139 00:07:36,380 --> 00:07:39,920 It's just there's a lot of noise, a lot of competition, and 140 00:07:39,920 --> 00:07:43,120 so maybe we need to tap into that. So kind of speaking to 141 00:07:43,120 --> 00:07:47,740 like you're saying here that you you help businesses get leads. 142 00:07:47,860 --> 00:07:50,860 Do you have any fun like, kind of client stories that help us 143 00:07:50,920 --> 00:07:53,380 wrap our heads around this? Like, is there any specific 144 00:07:53,380 --> 00:07:56,500 client or business that you've worked with at some point where 145 00:07:56,800 --> 00:07:59,140 they came to you and they said, You know, I need some leads. And 146 00:07:59,140 --> 00:08:02,460 you kind of developed a plan and implement some stuff. Any fun, 147 00:08:02,460 --> 00:08:04,020 case studies like that come to mind? 148 00:08:04,739 --> 00:08:06,719 Adam Lundquist: Yeah. So a really good thing to think about 149 00:08:06,779 --> 00:08:10,079 is, how does someone become a lead? First they have to kind of 150 00:08:10,139 --> 00:08:14,219 become comfortable with you. So my favorite kind of funnel is, I 151 00:08:14,219 --> 00:08:17,279 guess I'll call it a multi step funnel, where the first step is 152 00:08:17,279 --> 00:08:19,559 either they download an ebook or they take a quiz, and then the 153 00:08:19,559 --> 00:08:21,719 next step is they get a consultation, because that's 154 00:08:21,719 --> 00:08:24,199 what most of my clients want. My clients want, whether it's a 155 00:08:24,199 --> 00:08:26,899 lawyer, hormonal therapy, doctor, whatever. And the reason 156 00:08:26,899 --> 00:08:29,479 that works so well is because it's something called compliance 157 00:08:29,479 --> 00:08:33,499 psychology. So a good real world example, because I do like take 158 00:08:33,499 --> 00:08:35,959 this in the real world, is I was in Santa Barbara recently 159 00:08:35,959 --> 00:08:39,259 celebrating my wife's birthday, and there are those guys in the 160 00:08:39,259 --> 00:08:41,619 street with the clipboards, right? They're annoying, so I'm 161 00:08:41,619 --> 00:08:44,019 gonna want to be confused with them, but they come up to you, 162 00:08:44,019 --> 00:08:46,419 and they say, Hey, like, do you care about the environment? So 163 00:08:46,419 --> 00:08:48,999 that's step one. Is you just saying, yeah, yeah, doesn't care 164 00:08:48,999 --> 00:08:51,639 about the environment. And then they say, Hey, will you sign 165 00:08:51,639 --> 00:08:56,559 this? Will you sign this? Just to basically petition it? So you 166 00:08:56,559 --> 00:09:00,279 sign it. And then the next step is, always, will you give money? 167 00:09:00,579 --> 00:09:04,739 Now I don't, but people do, and it's because they've already 168 00:09:04,739 --> 00:09:07,139 said yes. It's already because they've signed the box. And if 169 00:09:07,139 --> 00:09:09,299 they just come up to you and said, Hey, we give money for the 170 00:09:09,299 --> 00:09:12,359 environment, your answer is almost 100% always going to be 171 00:09:12,359 --> 00:09:15,719 no. So it's about taking those little steps towards the big 172 00:09:15,719 --> 00:09:20,519 yes, or what I call the core offer. So that's one way to do 173 00:09:20,519 --> 00:09:25,279 it. So just to give you a real world example of that, let's say 174 00:09:25,279 --> 00:09:27,679 I have a hormonal therapy doctor. We're running a quiz 175 00:09:27,979 --> 00:09:32,419 that's basically, is it hormones or adrenal fatigue? And then you 176 00:09:32,419 --> 00:09:34,639 obviously would never say it is or it isn't, because you're 177 00:09:34,639 --> 00:09:37,219 going to get lose your medical license pretty fast if you do 178 00:09:37,279 --> 00:09:39,259 that. But you say, you know, you're at high risk, low risk. 179 00:09:39,259 --> 00:09:41,559 So they've taken the quiz, and the quiz. And the first question 180 00:09:41,559 --> 00:09:43,719 is always a question. It's just called a grease the wheel 181 00:09:43,719 --> 00:09:46,839 question, where they they just say if they're a man or woman, 182 00:09:46,899 --> 00:09:49,299 even though, behind the scenes, we know, because we target men 183 00:09:49,299 --> 00:09:51,939 and women differently on Facebook. And then in the end, 184 00:09:51,939 --> 00:09:54,879 you offer them a consult. So if you would just offer them the 185 00:09:54,879 --> 00:09:57,879 consult, very unlikely, too high a threat level for them to come 186 00:09:57,879 --> 00:10:00,839 in at. But by breaking things into six. Sequential little 187 00:10:00,839 --> 00:10:04,079 steps. One, it's better for the person, so you're more likely to 188 00:10:04,079 --> 00:10:07,679 get that initial lead. Two, it's better for optimization. So you 189 00:10:07,679 --> 00:10:11,399 might see, all right, well, people are whatever, falling off 190 00:10:11,399 --> 00:10:13,619 on question. Three, that's too personal question. We're not 191 00:10:13,619 --> 00:10:16,319 doing that. Or you might see that your ebook sucks, but your 192 00:10:16,319 --> 00:10:19,259 consultations are good. So there's all the little steps to 193 00:10:19,259 --> 00:10:19,979 break it into. 194 00:10:21,420 --> 00:10:24,080 Robert Plank: I love it, and, and, yeah, there's like, it goes 195 00:10:24,080 --> 00:10:26,960 back to that Robert Cialdini stuff, right? The commitment and 196 00:10:26,960 --> 00:10:30,860 consistency. Sometimes we're taking too big of a leap. 197 00:10:30,860 --> 00:10:33,920 Sometimes we're asking for too much from people. And it's like 198 00:10:33,920 --> 00:10:36,920 that whole story of like, well, if you ask, can I put a can we 199 00:10:36,920 --> 00:10:40,220 put a huge billboard on your front lawn? They might say no, 200 00:10:40,220 --> 00:10:43,240 but then, then you change it to, can we put a little sign on your 201 00:10:43,240 --> 00:10:46,060 front yard? Maybe they say yes to that. And then when you 202 00:10:46,060 --> 00:10:48,880 upgrade to the bigger sign, they say, well, some percentage 203 00:10:48,940 --> 00:10:52,180 actually took that whole path when otherwise they wouldn't 204 00:10:52,180 --> 00:10:56,020 have made that, that huge leap there. And so I really, I like 205 00:10:56,020 --> 00:10:58,900 some of these little marketing insights here, where you say, 206 00:10:59,020 --> 00:11:02,340 well, we can have a little downloadable or have a quiz and 207 00:11:02,340 --> 00:11:06,600 maybe ask them a very simple question, like, are you man or 208 00:11:06,600 --> 00:11:09,180 woman that you might already know, but just to, like you 209 00:11:09,180 --> 00:11:12,120 said, get the the wheels grease right. Get the wheels moving so 210 00:11:12,120 --> 00:11:16,440 that way they kind of get that, that forward momentum, and maybe 211 00:11:16,440 --> 00:11:19,860 they'll answer that the next easy little question. And then 212 00:11:19,860 --> 00:11:23,120 what's also really great about what you said there with like 213 00:11:23,120 --> 00:11:26,300 that quiz example is that you can find the bottleneck, right? 214 00:11:26,300 --> 00:11:29,780 Whereas if you have, like, a big, long form with 12 things to 215 00:11:29,780 --> 00:11:32,780 fill in, and no one was filling it out, you'd say, well, if it's 216 00:11:32,780 --> 00:11:35,960 not converting, there could be a million reasons why. But if you 217 00:11:36,020 --> 00:11:39,140 break up, for example, like this quiz thing, like you can say, 218 00:11:39,140 --> 00:11:42,760 well, for some reason they're getting to question three and 219 00:11:42,760 --> 00:11:46,660 then stopping. So, I mean, isn't it amazing all of these, these 220 00:11:46,660 --> 00:11:49,360 kind of, like, analysis tools, or all of these things that we 221 00:11:49,360 --> 00:11:53,800 can do to, like, scientifically, kind of adjust and fix things? 222 00:11:53,800 --> 00:11:55,780 Pretty cool, right? Yeah. Another 223 00:11:55,780 --> 00:11:58,300 Adam Lundquist: thing that's really powerful about quizzes is 224 00:11:58,300 --> 00:12:01,020 the sales call you have after them. So you're a doctor, you 225 00:12:01,020 --> 00:12:03,240 have all this information. You know. You say, hey, look, it 226 00:12:03,240 --> 00:12:06,300 says here that you whatever. You're starting fights with your 227 00:12:06,300 --> 00:12:08,640 husband because you're tired all the time. How does that make you 228 00:12:08,640 --> 00:12:10,980 feel? And that's a great place to start. Whereas, if you're 229 00:12:10,980 --> 00:12:14,100 just coming in cold from an email, you're like, says, Here, 230 00:12:14,100 --> 00:12:17,940 this is your email. Where are we going to go from here? So I 231 00:12:17,940 --> 00:12:21,140 really recommend quizzes and interactive tools. They seem to 232 00:12:21,140 --> 00:12:24,020 work a lot better. And that's intuitive, right? Like, if 233 00:12:24,020 --> 00:12:27,920 someone says, Hey, here's an here's an ebook, you know, 12 234 00:12:27,920 --> 00:12:30,980 things you're doing wrong in marketing. Like, okay, but if 235 00:12:30,980 --> 00:12:33,380 it's a quiz, it's like, hey, fill out this quiz and find out 236 00:12:33,380 --> 00:12:35,780 the one thing you're doing wrong in your marketing based on your 237 00:12:35,780 --> 00:12:38,420 answers. And you know, we'll tell you how to fix it. That's a 238 00:12:38,420 --> 00:12:40,840 much more magnetic offer. 239 00:12:41,620 --> 00:12:44,260 Robert Plank: Yeah, I agree. And then, or even, like, with some 240 00:12:44,260 --> 00:12:46,840 of these quizzes where there's branching right, like, like, I 241 00:12:46,840 --> 00:12:49,540 mean, even when you said that, well, 12 things you're doing 242 00:12:49,540 --> 00:12:51,820 wrong in your marketing, I'm thinking, Well, I don't want 243 00:12:51,820 --> 00:12:54,460 someone to tell me 12 things that that I'm doing wrong, or I 244 00:12:54,460 --> 00:12:57,220 don't want to have this to do list of 12 things to fix. But if 245 00:12:57,220 --> 00:13:01,440 it was like, you know, which of these three things do you want? 246 00:13:01,440 --> 00:13:04,740 Do you want? Like, more traffic or, like, more more cash flow, 247 00:13:04,740 --> 00:13:07,920 or bigger list? And then if I chose that answer and it 248 00:13:07,920 --> 00:13:11,700 branched off into something more specific, it's like, it kind of 249 00:13:11,700 --> 00:13:18,000 has the same result, but then I only focus on that little laser 250 00:13:18,000 --> 00:13:22,340 focus right there, that that I'm looking for. So, so, yeah, it's 251 00:13:22,340 --> 00:13:25,160 like, with the the quizzes, there's all kinds of, um, cool, 252 00:13:25,160 --> 00:13:28,400 like, just possibilities there. And so when you say things like, 253 00:13:28,400 --> 00:13:33,020 you had that example there, of, there's that the hormone doctor 254 00:13:33,080 --> 00:13:35,720 and you're asking for things like fights with your husband. 255 00:13:35,720 --> 00:13:39,440 So, like, where do those sorts of, like, emotional questions 256 00:13:39,440 --> 00:13:42,580 come from? Is, it a matter of seeing what's out there, or 257 00:13:42,580 --> 00:13:46,240 asking that doctor client or just reading articles, or is it 258 00:13:46,240 --> 00:13:49,720 like kind of a trial and error process, like, how you figure 259 00:13:49,720 --> 00:13:53,560 out those like exact sort of quiz questions to ask 260 00:13:54,100 --> 00:13:55,900 Adam Lundquist: so for the doctor, when I had the doctors 261 00:13:55,900 --> 00:13:58,180 write it, I mean, I said I want the first two questions to 262 00:13:58,180 --> 00:14:01,020 basically be, are you a man or woman? And then What age are you 263 00:14:01,080 --> 00:14:04,080 to get the wheels rolling or wheels turning, but then the 264 00:14:04,080 --> 00:14:07,380 actual questions themselves, I'm going to want the quiz to 265 00:14:07,380 --> 00:14:12,660 actually be valuable. And I am not a doctor, so yeah, I have 266 00:14:12,660 --> 00:14:16,740 them do it. Or if it's, if it's a client who's less medical, or 267 00:14:16,740 --> 00:14:18,900 something like that, I can help them write it. I mean, the key 268 00:14:18,900 --> 00:14:21,860 to a good quiz is basically keeping your answers consistent, 269 00:14:22,160 --> 00:14:25,820 so it's usually always, sometimes never, with the three 270 00:14:25,820 --> 00:14:29,540 answers and then having short, easily readable questions that 271 00:14:29,540 --> 00:14:32,420 are about seven to nine. I found anything under seven people 272 00:14:32,420 --> 00:14:35,180 like, there's a scam. Anything over nine people like, I'm not 273 00:14:35,180 --> 00:14:39,860 taking the time to do this. And, yeah, that's, that's the basic 274 00:14:39,860 --> 00:14:41,200 gist of writing a good quiz. 275 00:14:42,280 --> 00:14:44,260 Robert Plank: Okay, cool. So it's, and it's like, it's kind 276 00:14:44,260 --> 00:14:46,840 of seems kind of fun how there's like the like, the art and the 277 00:14:46,840 --> 00:14:50,140 science, right, there's the the best practices, the guidelines, 278 00:14:50,140 --> 00:14:54,040 but then we can have a lot of fun and be be creative in the 279 00:14:54,340 --> 00:14:57,820 the questions, the answers we create, if we kind of keep in 280 00:14:57,820 --> 00:15:01,260 those bounds of, say, like seven or nine. Questions or so three 281 00:15:01,260 --> 00:15:03,900 multiple choice answers, but then kind of come up with 282 00:15:03,900 --> 00:15:07,860 whatever we want. So that gives us a good starting point, a good 283 00:15:07,860 --> 00:15:10,740 idea for what to do, but then we can kind of play around with it. 284 00:15:10,740 --> 00:15:14,160 And so we kind of talked a little bit so far about some fun 285 00:15:14,160 --> 00:15:17,520 ideas, some some marketing fundamentals, some things to do, 286 00:15:17,640 --> 00:15:21,080 but then it's also fun to talk about what, not to do, or talk 287 00:15:21,080 --> 00:15:24,380 about some of the disaster stories. So in all of your 288 00:15:24,380 --> 00:15:27,380 travels and dealing with some of these businesses and digital 289 00:15:27,380 --> 00:15:30,800 marketing leads, quizzes, all this fun stuff, have you been 290 00:15:30,800 --> 00:15:34,160 seeing a common mistake or something that we could all 291 00:15:34,160 --> 00:15:37,880 easily pick up on and correct or avoid anything like that? 292 00:15:38,900 --> 00:15:42,280 Adam Lundquist: Yeah, 100% Well, two things. So one, only, um, 293 00:15:42,280 --> 00:15:46,180 only going from marketing metrics. So if you're just going 294 00:15:46,180 --> 00:15:49,000 after clicks, or really even just going after just the amount 295 00:15:49,000 --> 00:15:52,420 of leads you're you're not putting yourself in a good 296 00:15:52,420 --> 00:15:55,660 position you want to. Yeah, it does feel good to get a lot of 297 00:15:55,660 --> 00:15:58,960 leads. I'll be the first to say that. But if they're not quality 298 00:15:58,960 --> 00:16:01,860 leads, if you're a marketing agency, you can have a lot of 299 00:16:01,860 --> 00:16:04,500 churn, and if you're a the person getting them, you're just 300 00:16:04,500 --> 00:16:06,840 going to be blasting through these terrible, terrible sales 301 00:16:06,840 --> 00:16:11,220 calls. So a good way to look at that is, I have everything in a 302 00:16:11,220 --> 00:16:14,100 spreadsheet. It comes in through this program called Zapier. Just 303 00:16:14,100 --> 00:16:16,860 pulls in on mouse to Zapier. I don't get any cut of any of 304 00:16:16,860 --> 00:16:19,260 these. I always just recommend what I actually use, and then 305 00:16:19,260 --> 00:16:22,880 the clients actually fill out, is this a good or bad lead? Some 306 00:16:22,880 --> 00:16:25,880 you can't do that with, like, my lawyers, like, I don't want to 307 00:16:25,880 --> 00:16:29,120 know the case stuff. They have ethical obligations with that. 308 00:16:29,120 --> 00:16:31,520 But the other ones, like, it really helps. So sometimes 309 00:16:31,520 --> 00:16:34,220 you'll see, because everyone, I'm network agnostic, I don't 310 00:16:34,220 --> 00:16:37,700 really care. But the for AdWords, like, I'll know what 311 00:16:37,700 --> 00:16:41,560 search query it was. And maybe, just as an example. I don't 312 00:16:41,560 --> 00:16:47,020 know, expensive shoes near me provides a much better search 313 00:16:47,020 --> 00:16:52,540 than pricey shoes near me. Just as a total example, you know, 314 00:16:52,540 --> 00:16:55,240 then you want to bid more on that. And then the other big 315 00:16:55,240 --> 00:16:58,600 mistake I see people doing is talking more about themselves. 316 00:16:58,840 --> 00:17:02,700 Is it a you centered message or a them centered message. And 317 00:17:02,700 --> 00:17:05,340 actually, someone just sent me their resume today, and I had to 318 00:17:05,340 --> 00:17:08,220 tell them about this. Try to give a little tough love, but do 319 00:17:08,220 --> 00:17:10,560 it nicely, because I, you know, I want them to get a job at some 320 00:17:10,560 --> 00:17:14,640 point. But if everything's Me, me, me, me, me, well, like, who 321 00:17:14,640 --> 00:17:18,360 cares? Like, you know, it should be, like, what can I do for you? 322 00:17:18,360 --> 00:17:21,860 The most important person in the world is you. And that's not 323 00:17:21,860 --> 00:17:24,680 like a bumper sticker. That's really how people feel. And I 324 00:17:24,680 --> 00:17:27,680 get it like, you go to a web page and someone's like, I'm 325 00:17:27,680 --> 00:17:30,740 awesome, and I make all these things, like, I don't care. What 326 00:17:30,740 --> 00:17:34,160 can you do for me? So you want you focused messages, marketing 327 00:17:34,160 --> 00:17:38,180 messages, as well as tracking the data as close as you can to 328 00:17:38,180 --> 00:17:41,980 actual sales and revenue return on ad spend. Fantastic. 329 00:17:41,980 --> 00:17:44,020 Robert Plank: And I'm hearing that you're saying, like, track 330 00:17:44,020 --> 00:17:47,860 the data, but don't just charge ahead, right? Don't just see and 331 00:17:47,920 --> 00:17:50,920 you said this a few times, don't just go for views. Don't just go 332 00:17:50,920 --> 00:17:54,460 for clicks. That is an important ingredient in what you're trying 333 00:17:54,460 --> 00:17:58,000 to accomplish. But if you're getting bad leads, or if you're 334 00:17:58,000 --> 00:17:59,980 getting, you know, non buying leads, or if you're getting 335 00:17:59,980 --> 00:18:03,360 something that's not the right fit, then what's the point? And 336 00:18:03,360 --> 00:18:07,020 then also you mentioned in there Zapier, which is, like, it used 337 00:18:07,020 --> 00:18:09,360 to be kind of a geeky thing, right? To mention Zapier, and 338 00:18:09,360 --> 00:18:12,720 now it's one of those things where, like every every marketer 339 00:18:12,720 --> 00:18:15,900 should at least know about this concept, and a lot of people do, 340 00:18:15,900 --> 00:18:20,100 but in this day and age with all sorts of apps and hosted 341 00:18:20,100 --> 00:18:22,700 platforms and systems. I mean, Zapier is one of the most 342 00:18:22,700 --> 00:18:25,760 magical things, as you and I both know, where you can have 343 00:18:25,760 --> 00:18:30,020 some kind of a quiz service or platform, and it can hook into 344 00:18:30,020 --> 00:18:32,180 whatever other system that you have. I mean, there's always 345 00:18:32,180 --> 00:18:34,820 that discussion with you know Mark Zuckerberg has your data, 346 00:18:34,820 --> 00:18:37,700 and your data is so valuable, where our customer data is so 347 00:18:37,700 --> 00:18:40,360 valuable in this day and age, where people can just answer 348 00:18:40,360 --> 00:18:43,360 some questions, and you can lead score to them and hook it up 349 00:18:43,360 --> 00:18:45,700 into your system. It's really easy to get carried away and 350 00:18:45,700 --> 00:18:49,780 make it fancy, but it is amazing how someone can get on your 351 00:18:49,780 --> 00:18:53,440 list, or you can put someone a queue to to make a phone call, 352 00:18:53,440 --> 00:18:57,280 and already go into that phone call knowing about some of their 353 00:18:57,280 --> 00:18:59,980 answer to these quiz questions. So I mean, just like you said, a 354 00:18:59,980 --> 00:19:02,880 little shout out to Zapier. That is a really crucial thing. And 355 00:19:02,880 --> 00:19:07,680 then finally, as you said, that whole concept of making it 356 00:19:07,680 --> 00:19:10,560 about, then again, marketing fundamentals, but easy to 357 00:19:10,560 --> 00:19:14,400 forget, easy to miss, if you if you just either don't know what 358 00:19:14,400 --> 00:19:16,980 you're doing or forget, right? And it's kind of awkward, isn't 359 00:19:16,980 --> 00:19:19,260 it? It's like, it's easy to think, Well, I'm the most 360 00:19:19,260 --> 00:19:22,040 important thing because I've never seen the world through 361 00:19:22,040 --> 00:19:24,800 someone else's eyes. I only see it through me. But we kind of 362 00:19:24,800 --> 00:19:27,980 have to use our imagination a little bit and think someone has 363 00:19:27,980 --> 00:19:31,280 a problem. Someone took some kind of path to get to our site. 364 00:19:31,520 --> 00:19:35,540 They're short on time that they're here for a reason. Let's 365 00:19:35,600 --> 00:19:38,900 make it about them, because, as you've kind of said at the 366 00:19:38,900 --> 00:19:41,920 beginning here, where radio went away, and now there's, you know, 367 00:19:41,920 --> 00:19:45,340 satellite radio, podcasting, YouTube. Things are so 368 00:19:45,340 --> 00:19:48,400 scattered. Now. Things are so competitive. If we're not quick 369 00:19:48,400 --> 00:19:51,100 about solving their problems, having them take the quiz, make 370 00:19:51,100 --> 00:19:53,740 it easy, make it clear, then they're going to go somewhere 371 00:19:53,740 --> 00:19:56,620 else. So these are all really important things that we need to 372 00:19:56,620 --> 00:19:59,860 keep in mind. And I want to make sure that people know all about. 373 00:20:00,000 --> 00:20:03,780 And your website and your agency and the things that you can do 374 00:20:03,780 --> 00:20:06,780 for them, right in the spirit of making it about them. So can we 375 00:20:06,780 --> 00:20:10,080 unpack that a little bit? Can you tell people here what it is 376 00:20:10,080 --> 00:20:13,200 that you do, what problem that you can solve for them in a 377 00:20:13,200 --> 00:20:15,720 timely manner, and where the heck should we go to take the 378 00:20:15,720 --> 00:20:18,720 next step and find out more about you? Sure? 379 00:20:18,720 --> 00:20:20,960 Adam Lundquist: So you can find us on nerds, do it better.com. 380 00:20:22,580 --> 00:20:26,300 What we do is business focused, mainly lead generation. We do 381 00:20:26,300 --> 00:20:30,560 have some ecom clients, if you're right for it. And we do 382 00:20:30,560 --> 00:20:34,700 the strategy, the funnel building and the actual ad 383 00:20:34,700 --> 00:20:37,280 management. And really out of the three of those, I'd say the 384 00:20:37,280 --> 00:20:39,800 strategy is the most important. Like you could get a guy for 385 00:20:39,800 --> 00:20:43,660 like, whatever, nine bucks an hour off Elance, but you're 386 00:20:43,660 --> 00:20:45,940 gonna get a guy for nine bucks an hour Vance, and that's 387 00:20:45,940 --> 00:20:49,540 exactly what you're gonna get. Having the right strategy makes 388 00:20:50,320 --> 00:20:52,900 just the world of difference. Like everything else kind of 389 00:20:52,900 --> 00:20:56,800 replaceable. But really, in a business, the unique selling 390 00:20:56,800 --> 00:20:59,260 proposition is kind of like yourself. Like, what can you 391 00:20:59,260 --> 00:21:02,160 actually bring that no one else can? And what we bring is the 392 00:21:02,160 --> 00:21:06,420 strategy and the statistical analysis that is rigorous, to 393 00:21:06,420 --> 00:21:09,840 say the least. And you know, it ends up providing a nice, 394 00:21:09,840 --> 00:21:13,500 sustainable flow of clients. And also, I help you out, if, like, 395 00:21:13,860 --> 00:21:17,220 if you have sales problems, because I get it, like, I may 396 00:21:17,220 --> 00:21:19,200 say it's the lawyers all the time, like, they probably didn't 397 00:21:19,200 --> 00:21:22,460 teach you sales in law school. Like, why would they? But also, 398 00:21:22,460 --> 00:21:26,000 you're a business, so you need to get clients. So it's just 399 00:21:26,000 --> 00:21:29,480 about basically getting the fundamentals. We get you more 400 00:21:29,480 --> 00:21:33,020 clients online, and then the specifics of it are, you don't 401 00:21:33,020 --> 00:21:35,900 really have to worry about it. We do it ethically. You know, 402 00:21:35,900 --> 00:21:38,300 none of my lawyers get banned, because that is something that 403 00:21:38,300 --> 00:21:42,040 happens. People run seen. People run remarketing ads, which are 404 00:21:42,040 --> 00:21:44,200 ads that follow you for bankruptcy or divorce lawyers. 405 00:21:44,200 --> 00:21:46,960 Like, it's pretty good way to get disbarred If a wife sees a 406 00:21:46,960 --> 00:21:50,800 divorce law ad following them around, and then they you know, 407 00:21:50,860 --> 00:21:53,200 you got to be careful with this stuff, especially with these 408 00:21:53,200 --> 00:21:59,440 high, high touch kind of things that are very regulated, right? 409 00:21:59,440 --> 00:22:03,240 Robert Plank: And and it's like, you, you, you sometimes need to 410 00:22:03,300 --> 00:22:06,540 go after people over the long term or aggressively, but then 411 00:22:06,540 --> 00:22:09,420 also walk that fine line of like, like you said, don't let 412 00:22:09,420 --> 00:22:14,160 the wife see the divorce ads. So, so yeah, like, this is has 413 00:22:14,160 --> 00:22:16,560 been, like, a super great conversation, and you've given 414 00:22:16,560 --> 00:22:19,620 us a lot to think about. And I imagine also that kind of, like 415 00:22:19,620 --> 00:22:23,120 you said, lawyers or doctors or whatever industry they're in, 416 00:22:23,180 --> 00:22:26,180 they weren't taught this stuff. They weren't taught AdWords. 417 00:22:26,180 --> 00:22:29,060 They weren't taught remarketing, they weren't taught quizzes. So 418 00:22:29,060 --> 00:22:32,900 why not focus on what you do, what your industry is, and let 419 00:22:32,900 --> 00:22:35,540 Adam and his team do their thing. And it's kind of like 420 00:22:35,540 --> 00:22:39,140 that that show Columbo, where he was a cop, but he was kind of a 421 00:22:39,140 --> 00:22:42,280 little bit of a bumbling idiot, but he always caught the murder 422 00:22:42,280 --> 00:22:46,600 because this is his 200th time investigating a murder. This is 423 00:22:46,600 --> 00:22:49,120 all he does. And yet, the person who committed the murder, this 424 00:22:49,120 --> 00:22:51,100 is their first time. So of course, they're out of their 425 00:22:51,100 --> 00:22:53,860 element, no matter how smart they are. So why not kind of 426 00:22:53,860 --> 00:22:57,460 consider that analogy, that you can do what you do great every 427 00:22:57,460 --> 00:23:01,080 single day, and now you don't have to scramble and learn all 428 00:23:01,080 --> 00:23:04,380 this lead digital marketing stuff, just let Adam and his 429 00:23:04,380 --> 00:23:07,620 team do his thing. Plus there's that added benefit of maybe 430 00:23:07,620 --> 00:23:10,080 they've serviced a client similar to you. Maybe they've 431 00:23:10,080 --> 00:23:12,780 already gone through the trial and error. Plus they kind of 432 00:23:12,780 --> 00:23:16,320 have that new fresh perspective from the outside looking in. 433 00:23:16,320 --> 00:23:19,380 Maybe they have some new ideas and new strategies for you and 434 00:23:19,380 --> 00:23:21,860 your team and your company moving forward. So the place to 435 00:23:21,860 --> 00:23:25,640 go is nerds. Do it better.com. And before we sign off here, do 436 00:23:25,640 --> 00:23:28,940 you have any final parting words of wisdom for people here? Adam, 437 00:23:29,780 --> 00:23:32,780 Adam Lundquist: final parting words of wisdom? Yeah, just 438 00:23:32,780 --> 00:23:33,620 always be learning. 439 00:23:34,640 --> 00:23:36,500 Robert Plank: All right, always be learning. Well, we'll keep 440 00:23:36,500 --> 00:23:38,960 that in mind. We'll embroider that, put it on a pillow, put it 441 00:23:38,960 --> 00:23:41,800 on a t shirt or something like that. And in the meantime, go to 442 00:23:41,800 --> 00:23:45,280 nerds do it better.com, and take the next step in your business, 443 00:23:45,280 --> 00:23:48,340 because you know that you need to be taking your lead seriously 444 00:23:48,340 --> 00:23:52,000 and your quizzes and the people aren't just going to find you, 445 00:23:52,000 --> 00:23:54,940 especially in this day and age. So why not be proactive? But 446 00:23:54,940 --> 00:23:58,240 take some action, and go to nerds do it better.com, and 447 00:23:58,240 --> 00:24:04,140 we'll see you there. And thank you very much. You check out the 448 00:24:04,140 --> 00:24:07,740 latest episodes of our podcast on the web at marketer of the 449 00:24:07,740 --> 00:24:12,180 day.com and subscribe to us on iTunes at marketer of the 450 00:24:12,180 --> 00:24:17,580 day.com/itunes or search the phrase Robert plank in your 451 00:24:17,580 --> 00:24:19,140 iTunes app to find us there.