1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:04,200 Robert Plank: Marketer of the Day episode 718, fanocracy and 2 00:00:04,200 --> 00:00:07,980 newsjacking, let go of your creation to create a massive 3 00:00:07,980 --> 00:00:16,140 following with David Meerman Scott. Hey everyone, and welcome 4 00:00:16,140 --> 00:00:19,980 back to the marketer of the day podcast. We are here with David 5 00:00:20,040 --> 00:00:23,420 Meerman Scott, and we're going to talk today about the New 6 00:00:23,420 --> 00:00:26,960 Rules of Marketing and PR, we're going to talk about fanocracy. 7 00:00:26,960 --> 00:00:30,320 We're going to talk about the real time marketing revolution, 8 00:00:30,500 --> 00:00:34,760 and how you can get that human connection in your business and 9 00:00:34,760 --> 00:00:37,520 make an impact and change the world and build things up and 10 00:00:37,520 --> 00:00:40,240 get everything that you ever wanted. And more. So David, glad 11 00:00:40,240 --> 00:00:41,080 to be talking to you. 12 00:00:41,440 --> 00:00:43,600 David Meerman Scott: Holy cow, that was a hell of a lead in 13 00:00:43,900 --> 00:00:47,860 thank philosophy, exactly. It's awesome to be here. Well, 14 00:00:48,220 --> 00:00:50,260 Robert Plank: it's Glad to have you here and just so that people 15 00:00:50,260 --> 00:00:52,900 can kind of follow along and see what you're all about while 16 00:00:52,900 --> 00:00:55,300 we're talking. Do you feel like dropping the link and tell us 17 00:00:55,300 --> 00:00:56,920 where people can find you online? 18 00:00:57,220 --> 00:01:00,240 David Meerman Scott: Sure. The my brand new book is called 19 00:01:00,240 --> 00:01:06,720 fanocracy. So www.fanocracy.com is a great spot on the socials. 20 00:01:06,720 --> 00:01:09,240 I'm DM Scott, DMS, C, o, t, t, 21 00:01:09,900 --> 00:01:12,900 Robert Plank: perfect. DM Scott on the socials and fanocracy.com 22 00:01:13,680 --> 00:01:17,880 so I feel like I should know what this term fanocracy means, 23 00:01:17,880 --> 00:01:21,140 just by hearing it, it's got my attention, but I feel like I do 24 00:01:21,140 --> 00:01:23,900 need an explanation. So what the heck is fanocracy? And how can 25 00:01:23,900 --> 00:01:25,340 it help us cool? 26 00:01:25,340 --> 00:01:29,180 David Meerman Scott: So, yeah, it's a word that we kind of made 27 00:01:29,180 --> 00:01:34,160 up, so I it's totally fine. You haven't heard it before. The 28 00:01:34,160 --> 00:01:40,280 idea of a fanocracy is when fans rule. So a democracy, the rule 29 00:01:40,280 --> 00:01:44,500 by the many a meritocracy ruled by those with most ability, a 30 00:01:44,500 --> 00:01:48,040 monarchy ruled by the ruling party, the ruling family. 31 00:01:48,700 --> 00:01:52,480 Fanocracy is when the fans rule. And I co wrote it with my 32 00:01:52,480 --> 00:01:59,680 daughter, Reiko. She's 26 and so we teamed up and we looked at 33 00:01:59,680 --> 00:02:04,800 the idea of we are massive fans of the things we love. I love 34 00:02:04,800 --> 00:02:08,640 live music. I've been to 780 live concerts, and she loves 35 00:02:08,640 --> 00:02:12,000 Harry Potter. She's read every book, seen every movie, and 36 00:02:12,060 --> 00:02:15,060 wrote a 90,000 word alternative ending to the Harry Potter 37 00:02:15,060 --> 00:02:18,600 series where Draco Malfoy is a spy for the Order of the 38 00:02:18,600 --> 00:02:21,680 Phoenix. And put that onto a fan fiction site that's been 39 00:02:21,680 --> 00:02:27,740 downloaded 1000s of times. So we wanted to explore, does this 40 00:02:27,740 --> 00:02:35,360 idea of fandom apply beyond the ideas of entertaining, you know, 41 00:02:35,420 --> 00:02:39,560 live music for me, Harry Potter for Reiko. And in fact, it does. 42 00:02:39,560 --> 00:02:43,180 We found all kinds of examples. And so we've spent the last five 43 00:02:43,180 --> 00:02:48,280 years researching, researching and writing how anybody can use 44 00:02:48,280 --> 00:02:52,240 the ideas of fandom to market a business. 45 00:02:53,080 --> 00:02:56,260 Robert Plank: Sounds exciting, and that is something that would 46 00:02:56,260 --> 00:02:58,720 be great to tap into sometimes, right? Like, you see how many 47 00:02:58,720 --> 00:03:01,740 people get so excited about things like Harry Potter. And 48 00:03:01,740 --> 00:03:05,460 you think, well, that's great for them. And also it seems like 49 00:03:05,640 --> 00:03:09,240 it, especially on the social networks, people are really 50 00:03:09,240 --> 00:03:13,260 excited about some TV show, movies, celebrity. And you 51 00:03:13,260 --> 00:03:16,260 think, Well, I'd like to tap into that. But also, I have 52 00:03:16,260 --> 00:03:18,300 things to sell, I have a business, and I want to get 53 00:03:18,300 --> 00:03:23,360 people excited about my app, my platform, or my book. So like, 54 00:03:23,360 --> 00:03:28,040 how do you get from the entertainment fandom to this 55 00:03:28,040 --> 00:03:29,360 more businessy fandom? 56 00:03:29,720 --> 00:03:33,560 David Meerman Scott: So the subtitle of the book is turning 57 00:03:33,560 --> 00:03:38,960 fans into customers and customers into fans. So we 58 00:03:38,960 --> 00:03:45,160 actually looked at two different broad ideas around using fandom 59 00:03:45,340 --> 00:03:50,200 for business. And the first idea is, how can you kind of do what 60 00:03:50,200 --> 00:03:54,160 you just described, how can you tap into existing fandoms and 61 00:03:54,160 --> 00:03:57,040 get those people to be your customers? And then we also 62 00:03:57,040 --> 00:04:03,480 looked at, how can you have your business and turn them into fans 63 00:04:03,480 --> 00:04:07,020 of you, exactly the same way that people are fans of, say, 64 00:04:07,020 --> 00:04:11,460 Harry Potter. And both of those things absolutely are possible. 65 00:04:11,460 --> 00:04:14,700 There's actually prescriptions for doing so that we that we 66 00:04:14,700 --> 00:04:18,000 talk about. So let's take a look first at this idea of turning 67 00:04:18,000 --> 00:04:24,020 fans into customers. Robert, do you love auto insurance? No, no. 68 00:04:24,680 --> 00:04:30,500 I've asked that of 3000 people, and everyone says, No. One 69 00:04:30,500 --> 00:04:33,800 person said, insurance sucks. I hate insurance. And he was the 70 00:04:33,800 --> 00:04:37,400 CEO of an auto insurance company. His name is Michiel 71 00:04:37,400 --> 00:04:41,500 Haggerty, and he runs a business called Haggerty insurance. What 72 00:04:41,500 --> 00:04:45,100 he said to me is, David, everyone hates my business. Not 73 00:04:45,100 --> 00:04:47,980 only do they hate to buy auto insurance, hate to spend money 74 00:04:47,980 --> 00:04:51,220 on auto insurance, they hate to use our product because it meant 75 00:04:51,220 --> 00:04:54,460 they crashed their car. And he said, There's no way that I 76 00:04:54,460 --> 00:04:59,080 wanted to build a business based on either discounting or 77 00:04:59,140 --> 00:05:01,680 advertising. Which is what everyone else in my business 78 00:05:01,680 --> 00:05:04,440 does, you know, like the gecko or the lizard or the whatever 79 00:05:04,440 --> 00:05:08,880 the hell it is that the other guys use. So he focuses on 80 00:05:08,880 --> 00:05:13,860 classic car auto insurance. And so when he started the business, 81 00:05:13,860 --> 00:05:18,000 he started to go to classic car shows. That's where the fans of 82 00:05:18,000 --> 00:05:22,400 classic cars are, classic car shows. And he started to then, 83 00:05:22,460 --> 00:05:25,160 as he'd started to grow his business, he brought his 84 00:05:25,160 --> 00:05:28,280 employees, and they would set up booths, and they would interact 85 00:05:28,280 --> 00:05:31,340 with people at these shows. They would then become experts in 86 00:05:31,340 --> 00:05:34,160 things like how much cars are worth, and they have valuation 87 00:05:34,160 --> 00:05:36,920 reports that they provide for free. They have a YouTube 88 00:05:36,920 --> 00:05:39,080 channel with a million followers, a million 89 00:05:39,080 --> 00:05:42,280 subscribers. They have a Hagerty drivers club with 650,000 90 00:05:43,180 --> 00:05:48,400 members. They've tapped into the fandom that already exists 91 00:05:48,400 --> 00:05:52,180 around classic cars. They're now the largest classic car insurer 92 00:05:52,180 --> 00:05:55,720 in the world. They'll grow by 200,000 new customers this year. 93 00:05:55,900 --> 00:05:59,920 Their customers love them when you go to classic car shows, 94 00:06:00,160 --> 00:06:03,600 people wearing the Haggerty cap, people wearing the Haggerty T 95 00:06:03,600 --> 00:06:06,360 shirts. People have the Haggerty sticker on their bumpers, their 96 00:06:06,360 --> 00:06:09,720 bumper sticker of their classic car. They've done a fabulous job 97 00:06:09,720 --> 00:06:13,080 with it, and they're in a business that everybody hates. 98 00:06:13,980 --> 00:06:16,320 Robert Plank: And so what's the the takeaway from that? What did 99 00:06:16,320 --> 00:06:19,440 they do? Right? Because I'm hearing from you that they they 100 00:06:19,440 --> 00:06:23,600 niche down, right? They drilled into something specific, they 101 00:06:23,600 --> 00:06:26,780 differentiated, and they really got to know that existing 102 00:06:26,780 --> 00:06:30,080 fandom. So that way they they understood their concerns, 103 00:06:30,380 --> 00:06:33,140 learned, their language kind of buddied up to them. But what 104 00:06:33,140 --> 00:06:36,620 would you say that they did correctly that say like Gecko 105 00:06:36,620 --> 00:06:37,940 isn't well? 106 00:06:38,060 --> 00:06:41,800 David Meerman Scott: The main thing they did is they 107 00:06:41,800 --> 00:06:46,660 recognized that it's not about their product or service, and 108 00:06:46,660 --> 00:06:50,320 that's the thing that's really hard for marketers and 109 00:06:50,320 --> 00:06:53,680 entrepreneurs of all kinds, because we naturally fall in 110 00:06:53,680 --> 00:06:58,000 love with our products or services, and the other guys all 111 00:06:58,000 --> 00:07:00,240 focus on, you know, we've got the best car insurance, we've 112 00:07:00,240 --> 00:07:02,700 got the cheapest car insurance. We've got the cutest Gecko, 113 00:07:02,700 --> 00:07:08,580 whatever it is. And what Hagerty said was, No, it's not about our 114 00:07:08,580 --> 00:07:13,380 insurance. It's about our fans. It's about the people who love 115 00:07:13,380 --> 00:07:16,680 classic cars. It's about providing as much value as 116 00:07:16,680 --> 00:07:23,180 possible to this tribe of people who already exist. And that's 117 00:07:23,180 --> 00:07:27,860 something that any one of us can do, is tie into a group of 118 00:07:27,860 --> 00:07:34,760 people that already exist and providing things of tremendous 119 00:07:34,760 --> 00:07:37,700 value. You know, in the Hagerty case, a YouTube channel 120 00:07:37,700 --> 00:07:41,800 evaluation reports. They have a bi monthly magazine they send 121 00:07:41,800 --> 00:07:46,900 out. So this is all proven to be extremely valuable. And so, I 122 00:07:46,900 --> 00:07:49,360 mean, I just love the fact that they're in a business everyone 123 00:07:49,360 --> 00:07:52,720 hates, though, because in my mind, that proves that these 124 00:07:52,720 --> 00:07:55,960 ideas work for any kind of organization. And 125 00:07:55,960 --> 00:07:59,140 Robert Plank: it seems like that thought process there is going 126 00:07:59,140 --> 00:08:02,340 back to those marketing basics, right. Like, it's really easy to 127 00:08:02,460 --> 00:08:07,680 be so in it to be so just deep in your own company, that you 128 00:08:07,680 --> 00:08:10,200 think that the things you care about, or what they care about, 129 00:08:10,200 --> 00:08:13,380 and sure you might be excited about how you're running this 130 00:08:13,440 --> 00:08:16,200 silly, crazy discount, because that's your own business. But 131 00:08:16,200 --> 00:08:19,260 that just seems to be real, like, kind of commodity based, 132 00:08:19,260 --> 00:08:22,100 feature based, kind of stuff. What's more exciting are getting 133 00:08:22,100 --> 00:08:24,800 to know those people, getting to know what they care about, and 134 00:08:24,800 --> 00:08:27,740 then make sure that we really understand this concept. Can we 135 00:08:27,740 --> 00:08:30,440 maybe hit this from another angle? Because, like, we got 136 00:08:30,440 --> 00:08:33,020 that classic car example, have you worked with some other 137 00:08:33,020 --> 00:08:36,200 client where, like, they were just completely stuck, they had 138 00:08:36,200 --> 00:08:40,040 no idea how to make it interesting, fun, exciting, and 139 00:08:40,040 --> 00:08:42,400 you kind of maybe tried some things, worked your magic and 140 00:08:42,400 --> 00:08:43,420 figured out a way through 141 00:08:43,719 --> 00:08:46,359 David Meerman Scott: Well, I didn't. I have not come at this 142 00:08:46,359 --> 00:08:49,479 from a consultant perspective, because it's more around doing 143 00:08:49,479 --> 00:08:52,959 the research and writing the book and finding examples all 144 00:08:52,959 --> 00:08:56,679 over the world and then figuring out a prescription that people 145 00:08:56,679 --> 00:09:01,259 can apply. So what I can tell you is we've got the nine ideas 146 00:09:01,259 --> 00:09:04,079 of how to grow fandom, and all of them are interesting and 147 00:09:04,079 --> 00:09:08,039 different. And we've run across people have actually applied 148 00:09:08,039 --> 00:09:10,679 some of them. And I'm going to share with you one now that I 149 00:09:10,679 --> 00:09:13,499 find to be the most fascinating. It's actually really applicable 150 00:09:13,499 --> 00:09:16,979 for what we're doing right this moment. And I've had dozens of 151 00:09:16,979 --> 00:09:19,799 people who tell me they've applied it and have it's been 152 00:09:19,799 --> 00:09:23,599 incredibly successful, and that is this my daughter, Rekha, who 153 00:09:23,599 --> 00:09:26,419 I mentioned is my co author, is a neuroscientist. She did a 154 00:09:26,419 --> 00:09:29,419 neuroscience degree at Columbia University as undergraduate. 155 00:09:29,419 --> 00:09:32,359 She's now in her final year of medical school. So one of the 156 00:09:32,359 --> 00:09:35,959 things that we focused on is looking doing a deep dive into 157 00:09:35,959 --> 00:09:38,839 what's going on in our brains when we become a fan of 158 00:09:38,839 --> 00:09:41,799 something, what's actually happening from a neuroscience 159 00:09:41,799 --> 00:09:45,159 perspective. And we interviewed neuroscientists about this. It 160 00:09:45,159 --> 00:09:47,919 turns out that within neuroscience, there's this 161 00:09:47,919 --> 00:09:51,519 concept of proximity, humans being proximate to one another, 162 00:09:51,819 --> 00:09:56,079 and that's where the most powerful relationships happen, 163 00:09:56,619 --> 00:10:00,359 the closer that humans get to one another. And. What we 164 00:10:00,359 --> 00:10:05,699 recognized about the idea of fandom is that, yeah, I love the 165 00:10:05,699 --> 00:10:08,999 Grateful Dead. Yeah, I love live music. My daughter loves Harry 166 00:10:08,999 --> 00:10:13,319 Potter. But what it's really about when you really dig 167 00:10:13,379 --> 00:10:16,979 underneath all the layers of the onion, is that the people who do 168 00:10:16,979 --> 00:10:20,779 that with us are among our best friends. We're having a really 169 00:10:20,779 --> 00:10:25,099 strong human connection to the people who share a fandom with 170 00:10:25,099 --> 00:10:28,579 us. Because we're part of a tribe. We learn the lingo, we 171 00:10:28,579 --> 00:10:32,479 learn the rituals, and that becomes really, really 172 00:10:32,479 --> 00:10:35,659 important, like if, if Reiko meets another Harry Potter fan 173 00:10:35,659 --> 00:10:37,999 immediately asks, What's your house? You know? And everyone 174 00:10:37,999 --> 00:10:41,979 knows what that means, and it's a way of bonding. So this idea 175 00:10:41,979 --> 00:10:45,399 of proximity is interesting. There's a neuroscientist named 176 00:10:45,399 --> 00:10:48,759 Edward T Hall who looked at three different zones of 177 00:10:48,759 --> 00:10:52,479 proximity. There's the public space further than 20 feet away. 178 00:10:52,719 --> 00:10:56,079 Then there's social space, 20 feet to four feet and then 179 00:10:56,079 --> 00:10:59,559 there's personal space, four feet or more or closer. Now 180 00:11:00,159 --> 00:11:04,679 hardwired into our brains as humans is the idea that the 181 00:11:04,679 --> 00:11:07,259 closer you get to someone, the more powerful the shared 182 00:11:07,259 --> 00:11:11,639 emotions. So if you get in social space within 20 feet, 183 00:11:11,759 --> 00:11:13,979 that's that sort of you walk into a room, there's other 184 00:11:13,979 --> 00:11:17,039 people in the room. If you know those people, it's very strong 185 00:11:17,099 --> 00:11:20,539 experience. If you don't know them, your fight or flight 186 00:11:20,539 --> 00:11:23,539 instinct kicks in. That's a nick can be a negative experience. 187 00:11:23,539 --> 00:11:27,859 Even more so at personal space four feet or closer at a 188 00:11:27,859 --> 00:11:30,919 cocktail party situation where you know people very, very 189 00:11:30,919 --> 00:11:33,979 strong positive reactions, get into a crowded elevator you 190 00:11:33,979 --> 00:11:36,499 don't know people. It's hard, right? In our brains, we feel 191 00:11:36,499 --> 00:11:40,039 nervous because we don't know those people. It's part of our 192 00:11:40,039 --> 00:11:44,739 our survival instinct. So what this means for entrepreneurs who 193 00:11:44,739 --> 00:11:48,279 want to build fans? How much can you put people in close 194 00:11:48,279 --> 00:11:52,299 proximity to one another? So can you, for example, like Hagerty, 195 00:11:52,299 --> 00:11:55,779 go to classic car events and meet people and be in close 196 00:11:55,779 --> 00:11:58,719 physical proximity? But some people say, David, I run a 197 00:11:58,719 --> 00:12:02,339 virtual business, or my business is global, or I can't possibly 198 00:12:02,339 --> 00:12:05,279 get in close physical proximity of all, all of our customers. 199 00:12:05,399 --> 00:12:08,459 There's another concept of neuroscience called mirror 200 00:12:08,459 --> 00:12:12,059 neurons. That's the part of our brain that fires when we see 201 00:12:12,059 --> 00:12:15,779 somebody or hear somebody do something, as if we're doing it 202 00:12:15,839 --> 00:12:19,379 ourselves. Robert, I'm going to demonstrate I've got a lemon in 203 00:12:19,379 --> 00:12:22,519 one hand and a slice of lemon in the other hand. And those of you 204 00:12:22,519 --> 00:12:27,139 who are listening only imagine I have a lemon and a slice of 205 00:12:27,139 --> 00:12:30,079 lemon in my hand, and I'm now going to take a little bite of 206 00:12:30,079 --> 00:12:34,759 this slice of lemon, and as I take a little bit of a bite of 207 00:12:34,759 --> 00:12:39,019 this slice of lemon, immediately, my eyes close, my 208 00:12:39,019 --> 00:12:43,119 mouth puckers up. My saliva starts to do its thing. It's a 209 00:12:43,119 --> 00:12:46,839 really strong sensation to take a bite out of a lemon. Really 210 00:12:46,839 --> 00:12:51,639 powerful. My brain is firing. But I would suggest that 211 00:12:51,639 --> 00:12:54,579 everybody listening, and especially Robert, who saw that 212 00:12:54,579 --> 00:12:58,659 on the video camera, is experiencing in their brain a 213 00:12:58,659 --> 00:13:01,559 little bit of biting into a lemon, right? Robert, are you 214 00:13:01,559 --> 00:13:02,099 feeling that? A 215 00:13:02,100 --> 00:13:04,560 Robert Plank: little bit, yeah, a little bit. It felt sour to 216 00:13:04,560 --> 00:13:06,180 me. It's weird, right? 217 00:13:06,180 --> 00:13:08,400 David Meerman Scott: It's really interesting. That's mirror 218 00:13:08,400 --> 00:13:12,240 neurons. So the idea of mirror neurons can be used by 219 00:13:12,240 --> 00:13:17,160 entrepreneurs who want to grow fans, to combine the idea of 220 00:13:17,160 --> 00:13:20,960 using video and photographs with the idea of close physical 221 00:13:20,960 --> 00:13:25,820 proximity. What this means is that if you use video and photos 222 00:13:25,880 --> 00:13:29,360 in your marketing, if you use video and photos in your social 223 00:13:29,360 --> 00:13:33,380 networking, on your website and in other places, and it's 224 00:13:33,380 --> 00:13:37,580 cropped as if you're about four feet away, which is personal 225 00:13:37,580 --> 00:13:42,220 space, sort of cocktail party distance, our brains signal to 226 00:13:42,220 --> 00:13:45,520 us that you're actually in the same room, four feet away from 227 00:13:45,520 --> 00:13:48,700 that person. Our brains can't help it that mirror neuron 228 00:13:48,700 --> 00:13:53,620 begins to fire, and this is exactly why you think you know 229 00:13:53,620 --> 00:13:56,620 movie stars and television stars, and why people become 230 00:13:56,740 --> 00:14:01,440 massive fans of movie stars and television stars, it's because 231 00:14:01,440 --> 00:14:04,320 you feel you know them because your mirror neurons kink in and 232 00:14:04,320 --> 00:14:07,020 say, I've seen them on the screen, therefore I know them. 233 00:14:07,080 --> 00:14:10,620 You don't know them. They're they're an image on a screen. So 234 00:14:10,620 --> 00:14:15,600 we can use this in our marketing. We can use this as 235 00:14:15,600 --> 00:14:20,660 entrepreneurs. It's fabulously powerful. One person read a very 236 00:14:20,660 --> 00:14:24,320 early copy of the book about three months ago before it came 237 00:14:24,320 --> 00:14:29,060 out. And she's a novelist, well known novelist, and she has an 238 00:14:29,060 --> 00:14:33,320 Instagram and she she writes her sets, her novels in Europe, and 239 00:14:33,320 --> 00:14:37,100 most of her Instagram photos are of architecture and scenes in 240 00:14:37,100 --> 00:14:40,660 Europe. She has a good following on her Instagram. She said she 241 00:14:40,660 --> 00:14:44,800 had never, ever taken a selfie before. And a selfie, of course, 242 00:14:44,800 --> 00:14:48,340 is four feet away, approximately or a little bit less, because 243 00:14:48,340 --> 00:14:53,080 that's how long your arm is. So she read this idea that about 244 00:14:53,140 --> 00:14:56,440 mirror neurons in proximity, took a selfie, posted her very 245 00:14:56,440 --> 00:15:00,120 first selfie. It got more engagement than any. Um, 246 00:15:00,120 --> 00:15:04,620 Instagram post she had ever done, she was like, Oh my gosh, 247 00:15:04,740 --> 00:15:08,340 I get it, this idea of proximity, this idea of mirror 248 00:15:08,340 --> 00:15:13,260 neurons. So I know that was a long riff my friend Robert, but 249 00:15:13,260 --> 00:15:20,960 that that's the idea of how we can use neuroscience. And one of 250 00:15:20,960 --> 00:15:27,620 the ideas within this concept of fanocracy to get closer to our 251 00:15:27,620 --> 00:15:31,280 customers, either physically or virtually, and then have those 252 00:15:31,280 --> 00:15:36,500 people believe that is powerful connection. I'm a fan, 253 00:15:37,340 --> 00:15:39,980 Robert Plank: and that's really great. And I can I can tell that 254 00:15:39,980 --> 00:15:42,460 that you thought a lot of these things through in your book, 255 00:15:42,460 --> 00:15:45,820 that maybe we, once you point them out, we say, well, of 256 00:15:45,820 --> 00:15:48,820 course, I've noticed that, but I wasn't able to actually be 257 00:15:48,820 --> 00:15:52,180 consciously aware of it. And what you're making me think of 258 00:15:52,180 --> 00:15:55,000 is, um, I don't know. Like, there's always, like, a handful 259 00:15:55,000 --> 00:15:58,540 of people, even excluding celebrities, movie stars, even 260 00:15:58,540 --> 00:16:01,020 just like, you know people I know on Facebook, marketing 261 00:16:01,020 --> 00:16:05,100 people. And sometimes I'll there'll be people that maybe I 262 00:16:05,100 --> 00:16:07,740 see once or twice a year at networking events, and I'll feel 263 00:16:07,740 --> 00:16:10,860 like I've been hanging out with them all year long, because I 264 00:16:10,860 --> 00:16:14,640 see them on live streams, I see them on videos, and I it's kind 265 00:16:14,640 --> 00:16:17,280 of a spooky thing, right? How it's like you feel like you 266 00:16:17,400 --> 00:16:19,440 you've known the person the whole time, and maybe you're 267 00:16:19,440 --> 00:16:23,540 you've met them now for the first time, and and now, because 268 00:16:23,660 --> 00:16:27,020 there's a lot more video than there used to be, there's not 269 00:16:27,020 --> 00:16:29,480 that disconnect, like, I don't know if you experienced this, 270 00:16:29,480 --> 00:16:33,380 but maybe even up into to 10 years ago, once you finally met 271 00:16:33,380 --> 00:16:35,840 someone who you known online, you met him at a conference or 272 00:16:35,840 --> 00:16:38,300 something, they were way different as far as, like, the 273 00:16:38,420 --> 00:16:42,340 the personality, body language, maybe they were so animated on 274 00:16:42,340 --> 00:16:44,860 the the rehearsed, prepared video, but now that we're 275 00:16:44,860 --> 00:16:48,760 expected to live stream pretty regularly or be on YouTube, and 276 00:16:48,760 --> 00:16:52,420 now there's more of what you see is what you get and and, yeah, 277 00:16:52,420 --> 00:16:55,840 it's almost like that time that you spend apart from the person. 278 00:16:55,840 --> 00:16:58,300 You're not even apart. You're still just kind of right there 279 00:16:58,300 --> 00:16:59,680 in the room with them. I 280 00:16:59,680 --> 00:17:02,940 David Meerman Scott: think that's exactly right. And of 281 00:17:02,940 --> 00:17:08,640 course, I knew that this concept was was kind of out there based 282 00:17:08,640 --> 00:17:11,400 because I had experienced exactly what you described. You 283 00:17:11,400 --> 00:17:15,660 know, it. I knew people who used photographs a lot or used video 284 00:17:15,660 --> 00:17:19,680 a lot, and I and exactly what you said, when I would see them 285 00:17:19,680 --> 00:17:21,740 at a conference, I feel like, wow, yeah. You know, it feels 286 00:17:21,740 --> 00:17:24,920 like we had a cocktail together last week, when it when, in 287 00:17:24,920 --> 00:17:28,460 fact, maybe we had never even met before, but learning what's 288 00:17:28,520 --> 00:17:31,640 actually going on in our brains with the what the actual 289 00:17:31,640 --> 00:17:36,380 neuroscience behind this is, and the idea that we can't help 290 00:17:36,380 --> 00:17:39,920 ourselves, it's hardwired in our brain. It's a survival 291 00:17:39,920 --> 00:17:44,680 technique, the ideas of proximity, the ideas of mirror 292 00:17:44,680 --> 00:17:50,440 neurons. Means that when you know this information, and I've 293 00:17:50,440 --> 00:17:54,940 just provided enough information to that you can run with it, 294 00:17:55,120 --> 00:17:57,880 it's not there's nothing else behind it's a pretty simple 295 00:17:57,880 --> 00:18:02,280 concept, but anybody can think to themselves, well, yeah, okay, 296 00:18:02,340 --> 00:18:06,120 maybe I should be using more photographs. Maybe I should be 297 00:18:06,120 --> 00:18:09,960 using more video than I am now. So if you're an entrepreneur, 298 00:18:09,960 --> 00:18:11,880 you're trying to get your product or service off the 299 00:18:11,880 --> 00:18:16,560 ground, you know, photos and videos incredibly powerful. If 300 00:18:16,560 --> 00:18:21,080 you're if you're trying to find a new job, photos and videos 301 00:18:21,080 --> 00:18:24,620 incredibly powerful. No matter what it is you're trying to 302 00:18:24,620 --> 00:18:28,460 accomplish this stuff's really powerful, and that's just one 303 00:18:28,460 --> 00:18:31,640 idea. There's others that we've identified and written about, 304 00:18:31,640 --> 00:18:34,160 but to me, that's one of my favorites, just because it's 305 00:18:34,160 --> 00:18:39,140 rooted in science, and all of us recognize it, but very few of us 306 00:18:39,140 --> 00:18:43,120 are actually using it in a conscious way as a technique. 307 00:18:44,080 --> 00:18:49,540 Robert Plank: And I have I only noticed how helpful video was 308 00:18:49,720 --> 00:18:53,380 until I began using it a lot more recently. Like it used to 309 00:18:53,380 --> 00:18:57,100 be, if I was going to meet with someone, we do a phone call, we 310 00:18:57,100 --> 00:19:00,120 do Skype, and now it's video chat. And I didn't think much of 311 00:19:00,120 --> 00:19:02,760 it at first, but it makes such a difference, like just so much 312 00:19:02,760 --> 00:19:06,420 more is communicated, and even of us talking right now, we're 313 00:19:06,480 --> 00:19:09,780 doing the podcast. We're only recording audio, but we're on on 314 00:19:09,780 --> 00:19:12,360 video, just because it helps to feel like we're talking to a 315 00:19:12,360 --> 00:19:14,940 real person, like we're in the room. We pick up on each other's 316 00:19:14,940 --> 00:19:19,020 body language. We know when we should keep talking or not, the 317 00:19:19,020 --> 00:19:21,680 flows a lot better. And along those lines, you said that you 318 00:19:21,680 --> 00:19:25,700 had, like, something fun to mention in regards to that. But 319 00:19:25,700 --> 00:19:28,100 right before we started talking, you said that there was 320 00:19:28,100 --> 00:19:31,580 something about the being on camera and all that that kind of 321 00:19:31,640 --> 00:19:33,020 was interesting, right? 322 00:19:33,320 --> 00:19:35,000 David Meerman Scott: Well, I mean, I think, I think, I don't 323 00:19:35,000 --> 00:19:38,300 remember what I was thinking of but, but the whole idea of how 324 00:19:38,300 --> 00:19:42,220 powerful this is, you know, and you're right. You and I are 325 00:19:42,220 --> 00:19:45,340 right now. We're on a video camera so we can see each other, 326 00:19:45,400 --> 00:19:49,360 which is amazing. And this technology has become incredibly 327 00:19:49,360 --> 00:19:52,240 powerful just in the few years, and it's been around for a 328 00:19:52,240 --> 00:19:54,760 while, but it was really slow and clunky, and the internet 329 00:19:54,760 --> 00:19:57,220 connections weren't fast enough, and, you know, they're hard to 330 00:19:57,220 --> 00:20:00,480 use. And you know, the systems you had to like. Download 331 00:20:00,480 --> 00:20:05,040 software and stuff, but now it's really powerful, and so I just 332 00:20:05,040 --> 00:20:07,560 think the idea of using it more is really, really important. 333 00:20:08,220 --> 00:20:08,460 Well, 334 00:20:08,460 --> 00:20:12,060 Robert Plank: I agree. And so to give us a little more of a taste 335 00:20:12,060 --> 00:20:14,580 of the book in these last few minutes, as we're winding down, 336 00:20:14,580 --> 00:20:18,180 is there an interesting nugget or concept that you can you 337 00:20:18,180 --> 00:20:21,260 think we can fit into these last few minutes to really whet 338 00:20:21,260 --> 00:20:23,780 people's appetite. So that way they go and run and get the 339 00:20:23,780 --> 00:20:26,420 book, anything coming to mind, just about something really 340 00:20:26,420 --> 00:20:28,400 quick, but interesting, sure. 341 00:20:28,880 --> 00:20:31,400 David Meerman Scott: Another concept I found fascinating is 342 00:20:31,400 --> 00:20:35,120 the idea, which we titled The chapter, let go of your 343 00:20:35,120 --> 00:20:40,780 creations. The idea here is, once you put a product or 344 00:20:40,780 --> 00:20:46,180 service out into the world. You have to let the fans take over 345 00:20:46,180 --> 00:20:50,740 you no longer own it. You have to let the fans choose how they 346 00:20:50,740 --> 00:20:53,260 talk about it. You have to let the fans choose how they 347 00:20:53,260 --> 00:20:57,820 interact with it. You have to let the fans choose the ways 348 00:20:57,880 --> 00:21:02,520 that they organize themselves around it. And for example, 349 00:21:02,520 --> 00:21:05,400 going back to Harry Potter, there's a website called muggle 350 00:21:05,400 --> 00:21:10,020 net. We interviewed the person who founded and has run muggle 351 00:21:10,020 --> 00:21:13,980 net, and that has nothing to do with JK Rowling, the author of 352 00:21:13,980 --> 00:21:16,740 the Harry Potter series, and everything to do with fans 353 00:21:16,740 --> 00:21:19,500 organizing around something. I'll give you two examples from 354 00:21:19,500 --> 00:21:22,460 the business world. The first one is Adobe. They make 355 00:21:22,460 --> 00:21:25,760 Photoshop software, among other software products. And my 356 00:21:25,760 --> 00:21:28,580 daughter, reco, my co author, loves to make art using 357 00:21:28,580 --> 00:21:32,780 Photoshop, and she and her friends get online, and they 358 00:21:32,780 --> 00:21:36,620 participate in blogs, chat rooms and video tutorials and stuff to 359 00:21:36,620 --> 00:21:40,600 learn as much as they can about how to do better art using 360 00:21:40,600 --> 00:21:43,780 Photoshop, but Adobe, the company that makes Photoshop 361 00:21:43,780 --> 00:21:47,080 software, they all laugh at Adobe because they try to 362 00:21:47,080 --> 00:21:50,980 control the way that people talk about their software, rather 363 00:21:50,980 --> 00:21:54,700 than losing control and letting the fans take over. They don't 364 00:21:54,700 --> 00:22:00,720 let go of their creations. What they say is, you cannot say that 365 00:22:00,720 --> 00:22:04,080 you photoshopped something. Adobe says you can't say that. 366 00:22:04,200 --> 00:22:09,120 You must say that you manipulated something using 367 00:22:09,180 --> 00:22:14,040 Adobe trademark circle R, Photoshop. Trademark circle R, 368 00:22:14,040 --> 00:22:18,480 software and Reiko, my daughter, said, everything that Adobe 369 00:22:18,480 --> 00:22:21,500 wants us to say sounds like a robot, but everything that we 370 00:22:21,500 --> 00:22:26,660 say sounds like a fan. So the the idea here is, let your fans 371 00:22:26,960 --> 00:22:30,560 say that how to work, how to how to talk about your products and 372 00:22:30,560 --> 00:22:33,380 service, let go of your creations. An organization has 373 00:22:33,380 --> 00:22:36,320 done a good job with that is I Robot they make the Roomba 374 00:22:36,320 --> 00:22:40,660 vacuum cleaners, and there's this whole subculture of people 375 00:22:40,720 --> 00:22:44,200 who take videos of their pets riding on the Roombas. I don't 376 00:22:44,200 --> 00:22:47,320 know if you've ever seen them, but go to YouTube and just do a 377 00:22:47,320 --> 00:22:50,920 search on Roomba cats or Roomba dogs, you'll find them. There's 378 00:22:50,920 --> 00:22:53,380 millions and millions and millions of views of these 379 00:22:53,380 --> 00:22:57,100 videos. IRobot, the company that makes the Roomba could say this 380 00:22:57,100 --> 00:23:00,040 is not approved use of our product. You can't do this. Take 381 00:23:00,040 --> 00:23:04,260 down these videos, but they let the fans take over. They let go 382 00:23:04,260 --> 00:23:08,520 of their creations. So we as entrepreneurs naturally feel 383 00:23:08,520 --> 00:23:11,460 like, Oh, my God, this is my baby. I own it. I want to 384 00:23:11,460 --> 00:23:15,600 control how people talk about it. You can't you've got to let 385 00:23:15,600 --> 00:23:16,680 the fans take over. 386 00:23:18,000 --> 00:23:20,360 Robert Plank: That's a great story, and you have my brain 387 00:23:20,360 --> 00:23:24,260 swirling with all kinds of ideas for how I can implement this 388 00:23:24,260 --> 00:23:27,680 sort of thing. And I mean, it makes sense why Adobe would do 389 00:23:27,680 --> 00:23:30,620 with what they're doing. Because they don't want their trademark 390 00:23:30,620 --> 00:23:33,920 Photoshop to become generic, like how people always said, 391 00:23:34,040 --> 00:23:36,560 Kleenex this. And they always said, you know, this is a 392 00:23:36,560 --> 00:23:39,740 Kleenex. And now every that just becomes the common usage of 393 00:23:39,920 --> 00:23:42,700 usage of it. But you think that's a good thing, right? If 394 00:23:42,700 --> 00:23:46,480 everyone says, I Photoshop this, that means that that's the 395 00:23:46,480 --> 00:23:49,960 default term. And so it's like one of those things where it's 396 00:23:49,960 --> 00:23:53,800 like, you have to sometimes give up the short term, safe thing 397 00:23:53,800 --> 00:23:57,700 you're hanging on to in order to get something more long term. 398 00:23:57,820 --> 00:24:00,640 And also, from these, these examples you're giving me, it 399 00:24:00,640 --> 00:24:02,340 seems like there's, like, there's, like an always an 400 00:24:02,340 --> 00:24:05,040 interesting story built in, right? Like, yeah, we're 401 00:24:05,040 --> 00:24:07,860 talking, they talk about what's been Photoshop, for example, 402 00:24:07,920 --> 00:24:09,120 exactly, 403 00:24:09,120 --> 00:24:11,700 David Meerman Scott: we've got something like 30 or 40 stories 404 00:24:11,700 --> 00:24:14,460 in the book. I'd like to give you one example from my own 405 00:24:14,460 --> 00:24:18,660 world, if I may. It's very short. I invented a concept 406 00:24:18,660 --> 00:24:23,660 called newsjacking. Newsjacking is when you write an instant 407 00:24:23,660 --> 00:24:28,520 blog post or YouTube or create a YouTube video based on your 408 00:24:28,520 --> 00:24:31,280 expertise being in demand, because there's something 409 00:24:31,280 --> 00:24:35,960 breaking in the news that you can be in, that you're an expert 410 00:24:35,960 --> 00:24:39,560 in, and it's a great way to get media attention. I invented this 411 00:24:39,560 --> 00:24:44,380 concept 10 years ago, and when I and so the new word newsjacking 412 00:24:44,380 --> 00:24:48,460 had never been used like this before. So I owned the URL 413 00:24:48,460 --> 00:24:53,140 newsjacking, but I did not trademark it. I let anyone who 414 00:24:53,140 --> 00:24:56,620 wanted to use that term, if you wanted to write a book about 415 00:24:56,620 --> 00:24:59,380 newsjacking, go ahead and somebody did, if you want to do 416 00:24:59,380 --> 00:25:02,700 speeches. About newsjacking, go ahead. And many people did, if 417 00:25:02,700 --> 00:25:06,600 you want to create blogs about newsjacking, go ahead, and 1000s 418 00:25:06,600 --> 00:25:09,840 of people have done that. So everybody talking about the 419 00:25:09,840 --> 00:25:14,520 concept I invented became it became so popular every single 420 00:25:14,520 --> 00:25:18,360 day people are talking about it. It's now listed in the Oxford 421 00:25:18,360 --> 00:25:22,940 English Dictionary, and my name is attached to it. And anyone 422 00:25:22,940 --> 00:25:25,460 who Googles the word newsjacking, I'm at the top 423 00:25:25,460 --> 00:25:29,300 because I own newsjacking.com I'm doing the exact same thing 424 00:25:29,300 --> 00:25:33,620 with fanocracy. I did not trademark the word fanocracy. I 425 00:25:33,620 --> 00:25:36,260 did not try to assert my ownership over the word 426 00:25:36,260 --> 00:25:40,240 fanocracy. Yes, I invented it. Yes, I own the URL. Yes, I have 427 00:25:40,240 --> 00:25:44,380 a book with a title fanocracy, but I'd rather have people 428 00:25:44,380 --> 00:25:50,620 talking about it freely than try to control it. Because I'd 429 00:25:50,620 --> 00:25:54,100 rather have, I'd rather have someone else write a book with 430 00:25:54,100 --> 00:25:57,340 the word fanocracy in the title than not. I'd rather have other 431 00:25:57,340 --> 00:26:00,900 people give speeches about it than not, because that spreads 432 00:26:00,900 --> 00:26:03,840 the idea far and wide, which eventually comes back to me and 433 00:26:03,840 --> 00:26:07,380 makes me that much bigger. So this idea is hard for people to 434 00:26:07,380 --> 00:26:10,320 get their arms around, because many times the legal team, like 435 00:26:10,320 --> 00:26:13,320 in the case of of Adobe, I'm sure that's what happened. The 436 00:26:13,320 --> 00:26:15,420 legal team says, Oh no, no, that's not the right way to do 437 00:26:15,480 --> 00:26:18,120 it. Well, sometimes the legal team might be wrong. You know, 438 00:26:18,120 --> 00:26:21,440 it's like, let the ideas spread like, let people let go of your 439 00:26:21,440 --> 00:26:24,020 creations, let the fans take over. 440 00:26:24,980 --> 00:26:28,040 Robert Plank: It's, uh, it's abundance thinking, not scarcity 441 00:26:28,040 --> 00:26:31,280 thinking. It's like the the John Rockefeller saying of, instead 442 00:26:31,280 --> 00:26:35,240 of one person doing, uh, putting in 100% I rather have 100 people 443 00:26:35,240 --> 00:26:38,840 putting in 1% Well, with this whole fantasy concept, why not 444 00:26:38,840 --> 00:26:44,440 have 100,000 put in point. Oh, 1% and with so a lot of this 445 00:26:44,440 --> 00:26:48,400 makes sense, you know, let let your your concept catch fire and 446 00:26:48,400 --> 00:26:52,900 let it, let it spread. But how do you make sure that in, in 447 00:26:52,900 --> 00:26:55,540 letting go of it and, you know, giving up control of it, how do 448 00:26:55,540 --> 00:26:59,680 you make sure that it gets back to you and you can make money 449 00:26:59,680 --> 00:27:02,940 and get recognized? How do you keep that factor in play? 450 00:27:03,300 --> 00:27:06,480 David Meerman Scott: Well, in the case of a concept, like in 451 00:27:06,480 --> 00:27:14,040 my case, it's a concept, I made sure that I kept it under wraps 452 00:27:14,340 --> 00:27:19,320 until I was ready to birth it. So I can't. I started writing 453 00:27:19,320 --> 00:27:25,040 this book five years ago, and I, I might with my daughter, and we 454 00:27:25,040 --> 00:27:29,840 came up with the title approximately two years ago. We 455 00:27:29,840 --> 00:27:34,280 didn't announce the title to the world until about six months 456 00:27:34,280 --> 00:27:39,020 prior to the publication in January of 2020, of the book. I 457 00:27:39,020 --> 00:27:42,880 made sure I owned the you are the URL newsjacking.com and 458 00:27:42,940 --> 00:27:49,000 fanocracy.com long before I talked about the idea publicly, 459 00:27:49,180 --> 00:27:54,100 but But what I wanted to do was make sure that once I announced 460 00:27:54,100 --> 00:27:59,020 this concept to the world, that I already had lined up the book 461 00:27:59,020 --> 00:28:02,580 contract. The manuscript is at the publisher. We already had a 462 00:28:02,580 --> 00:28:07,560 cover art chosen. I had already started to give speeches. You 463 00:28:07,560 --> 00:28:11,640 know, I was ready to give speeches on the topic, and so 464 00:28:11,700 --> 00:28:16,680 once I announced it, then Google took over. I have the URL. I've 465 00:28:16,680 --> 00:28:19,620 given speeches. I have the book. There's the Amazon listing, all 466 00:28:19,620 --> 00:28:26,000 that stuff. So I have the top search results and and so even 467 00:28:26,000 --> 00:28:29,120 though other people I want to talk about it, like, for 468 00:28:29,120 --> 00:28:33,980 example, when you do a listing for this podcast, perhaps you'll 469 00:28:33,980 --> 00:28:36,500 use the word fanocracy, and Google will find that there'll 470 00:28:36,500 --> 00:28:41,020 be another listing for that word fanocracy. And that's all great. 471 00:28:41,860 --> 00:28:48,100 And so I think that it's a matter of, in my case, at least 472 00:28:48,100 --> 00:28:51,940 birthing something new. It's a matter of making sure that, 473 00:28:52,000 --> 00:28:56,560 before I announce it to the world, that I already had the 474 00:28:56,560 --> 00:29:00,220 social proof that I'm the founder of this movement 475 00:29:00,340 --> 00:29:05,940 established, and I, and if somebody really big were to take 476 00:29:05,940 --> 00:29:08,160 it on, let's say I don't know. Let's just take for a safer 477 00:29:08,160 --> 00:29:11,760 argument sake, Apple created a product called fanocracy. They 478 00:29:11,760 --> 00:29:14,400 would probably beat me in the search engine, but that would be 479 00:29:14,400 --> 00:29:17,220 really cool if Apple did that, and I would love it. 480 00:29:18,960 --> 00:29:21,380 Robert Plank: Okay, so, so you're, you're saying that 481 00:29:21,380 --> 00:29:24,740 you're, you had certain strategic things in place. So 482 00:29:24,740 --> 00:29:28,700 you said, you know, I'll create this chaos. I'll create this 483 00:29:28,700 --> 00:29:31,940 movement, but then also have a few things in my back pocket. So 484 00:29:31,940 --> 00:29:35,720 that way, you know, the things are in motion, right? The books 485 00:29:35,720 --> 00:29:37,880 in motion, the speaking things in motion. So that way you're 486 00:29:37,880 --> 00:29:41,380 not doing that sort of thing too early, so that no one else can 487 00:29:41,380 --> 00:29:45,340 hijack it. And even if, like, a huge company hijacks it, that's 488 00:29:45,340 --> 00:29:45,940 a good thing. 489 00:29:46,120 --> 00:29:47,980 David Meerman Scott: Yeah, that's the way I look at it, and 490 00:29:47,980 --> 00:29:50,620 that's a very counterintuitive way of looking at it, because 491 00:29:50,620 --> 00:29:54,760 almost all entrepreneurs will do the opposite. They'll say, I own 492 00:29:54,760 --> 00:29:57,760 this. I'm going to trademark it, I'm going to make it a 493 00:29:57,760 --> 00:30:01,020 registered trademark, and I'm going to. Have my legal team 494 00:30:01,020 --> 00:30:05,520 make sure other people don't use it. And I think there might be 495 00:30:05,520 --> 00:30:08,700 some occasions where that's appropriate, but for a lot of 496 00:30:08,700 --> 00:30:12,840 things in today's world, especially things around ideas 497 00:30:14,400 --> 00:30:19,380 that that's in my mind at least, and maybe I'm an outlier, but in 498 00:30:19,380 --> 00:30:22,820 my mind, at least, that's not the right approach, because if 499 00:30:22,820 --> 00:30:28,220 you want fans, if you want people talking about you, if you 500 00:30:28,220 --> 00:30:33,680 want people saying you were talking about your ideas all 501 00:30:33,680 --> 00:30:37,460 over the world, you have to let them talk. And as soon as you 502 00:30:37,460 --> 00:30:40,720 slap a trademark on something you're saying to them, you do 503 00:30:40,720 --> 00:30:42,280 not have permission to talk. 504 00:30:43,720 --> 00:30:47,380 Robert Plank: So this seems like a good option for us to consider 505 00:30:47,440 --> 00:30:50,260 if it's appropriate. And you hear about companies like 506 00:30:50,260 --> 00:30:54,820 putting things in open source, or GPL, or Elon Musk made a lot 507 00:30:54,820 --> 00:30:59,080 of his patents public domain. So sometimes this is a really good 508 00:30:59,080 --> 00:31:01,860 idea, a really good thing for us to do in order to get people 509 00:31:01,860 --> 00:31:05,400 talking, in order to get that that fanocracy started. So just 510 00:31:05,400 --> 00:31:09,600 to to go back and make sure that people can get the book and find 511 00:31:09,600 --> 00:31:13,620 your website, where can and where should people go after 512 00:31:13,620 --> 00:31:16,500 they've heard our conversation here, and we're intrigued by all 513 00:31:16,500 --> 00:31:18,660 these ideas we've been throwing out today. Well, first 514 00:31:18,660 --> 00:31:21,080 David Meerman Scott: of all, Robert, great example on Elon 515 00:31:21,080 --> 00:31:25,280 Musk and his patents. I had known about that, but I hadn't 516 00:31:25,280 --> 00:31:27,920 even thought of that as an example of losing, letting go of 517 00:31:27,920 --> 00:31:31,340 your creation. So I appreciate that, because put it in the 518 00:31:31,340 --> 00:31:34,520 sequel, I'm thinking, I'm thinking to myself, it's a 519 00:31:34,520 --> 00:31:37,100 fabulous example, and you're absolutely right, and it's 520 00:31:37,100 --> 00:31:41,200 exactly, exactly what I'm talking about. So I've got the 521 00:31:41,200 --> 00:31:46,660 website@www.fanocracy.com There's videos, there's PDF 522 00:31:46,660 --> 00:31:50,500 documents you can download. None of them require registration on 523 00:31:50,500 --> 00:31:53,560 the social networks. I am DM Scott. DMS, C, o, t, t, and if 524 00:31:53,560 --> 00:31:57,580 you want to learn more about me, my full name David Meerman 525 00:31:57,580 --> 00:32:00,100 Scott. I'm the only I use my middle name professionally, 526 00:32:00,100 --> 00:32:02,700 because I'm the only David Meerman Scott on the entire 527 00:32:02,700 --> 00:32:04,500 planet. So if you Google me, you'll get me 528 00:32:05,640 --> 00:32:08,640 Robert Plank: fantastic. So DM Scott on social media, and 529 00:32:08,640 --> 00:32:11,040 David Meerman Scott: I love that you said German Scott. I love 530 00:32:11,040 --> 00:32:13,140 that you said fan tastic. 531 00:32:14,340 --> 00:32:17,340 Robert Plank: That's good. Some subliminal messaging there, and 532 00:32:17,340 --> 00:32:21,320 then fanocracy.com. Is the place to go and check out those 533 00:32:21,320 --> 00:32:25,520 handouts. Get the book. Go ahead and get it if you want to start 534 00:32:25,520 --> 00:32:28,520 a movement, if you want your business to catch on fire, if 535 00:32:28,520 --> 00:32:30,860 you want your ideas to spread, and you should want all those 536 00:32:30,860 --> 00:32:35,060 things run, don't walk to fanocracy.com get the book, and 537 00:32:35,060 --> 00:32:37,520 we'll see you there. And thanks David for stopping by and being 538 00:32:37,580 --> 00:32:40,960 generous with your time and really getting us thinking about 539 00:32:41,140 --> 00:32:44,740 some of these real, new, amazing ideas. I love it. Thanks, Rob. 540 00:32:44,740 --> 00:32:46,360 David Meerman Scott: I really appreciate you having me on and 541 00:32:46,360 --> 00:32:49,180 love the fact that you've been podcasting so regularly. So keep 542 00:32:49,180 --> 00:32:51,100 up. The work will do. 543 00:32:54,700 --> 00:32:57,040 Robert Plank: Did you leave us a quick review on iTunes? Yet? 544 00:32:57,040 --> 00:33:00,220 It's quick and easy. Just go to marketer of the day.com/itunes, 545 00:33:02,020 --> 00:33:06,180 click the View in iTunes button, and we would be very grateful.