1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:05,040 Unknown: Marketer of the Day episode, 764 independent podcast 2 00:00:05,040 --> 00:00:09,060 Alliance, create the podcast of your dreams with Peter Clough, 3 00:00:13,680 --> 00:00:15,870 Robert Plank: Hey everyone, and welcome back to the marketer of 4 00:00:15,870 --> 00:00:19,110 the day podcast. We are just here with two podcasters. We're 5 00:00:19,110 --> 00:00:22,380 going to be on a podcast talking about more podcasting, we have 6 00:00:22,500 --> 00:00:27,030 Peter Clough, who is the founder of the independent podcast 7 00:00:27,030 --> 00:00:30,780 Alliance, which is a free to join community for podcasters 8 00:00:30,870 --> 00:00:34,530 who are producing shows outside of the big media world. So if 9 00:00:34,530 --> 00:00:37,860 you are a current podcaster, future podcaster, up and coming 10 00:00:37,860 --> 00:00:40,980 podcaster, or more you you want to hear all about the 11 00:00:40,980 --> 00:00:44,880 independent podcast Alliance, what it is, what happens inside 12 00:00:44,880 --> 00:00:46,920 of it, how you can join. So, Peter, glad to be talking to 13 00:00:46,920 --> 00:00:47,160 you. 14 00:00:47,560 --> 00:00:48,340 Peter Clough: Great to be here. 15 00:00:49,360 --> 00:00:52,600 Robert Plank: So, yeah, so, I mean, I know that you are a guy 16 00:00:52,600 --> 00:00:55,900 who has been around since like, FM radio, and you're all about 17 00:00:55,900 --> 00:00:58,720 podcasting. So I mean, tell me about yourself. Tell me about 18 00:00:58,720 --> 00:00:59,440 all this fun stuff. 19 00:01:00,040 --> 00:01:03,240 Peter Clough: Yeah, I was drawn into radio as a teenager and in 20 00:01:03,240 --> 00:01:08,820 college, and it was drawn by music and classic late night FM, 21 00:01:09,060 --> 00:01:14,220 here's spooky tooth kind of radio. And after that, migrated 22 00:01:14,220 --> 00:01:17,820 into commercial radio, where I eventually got into sales roles 23 00:01:18,060 --> 00:01:21,500 and sales management roles. And in the 90s, as radio was 24 00:01:21,500 --> 00:01:24,500 consolidating, the Internet was exploding, I made a big leap. 25 00:01:24,860 --> 00:01:27,620 And I remember at one point I was on a job interview, and they 26 00:01:27,620 --> 00:01:30,740 said, describe your ideal job. And I said, you know, I'd like 27 00:01:30,740 --> 00:01:34,040 to host a radio show from my house where I would have 28 00:01:34,040 --> 00:01:36,980 control, and would, you know, be able to sell the ads and 29 00:01:36,980 --> 00:01:40,660 sponsorships and do all that. And it only took about, no, I 30 00:01:40,660 --> 00:01:44,560 don't know what would that be about the 28 years. And here we 31 00:01:44,560 --> 00:01:48,160 are in the midst of the podcast boom, where this is all now 32 00:01:48,160 --> 00:01:52,360 possible now, but between my idea of having that and and now, 33 00:01:52,360 --> 00:01:56,260 I worked with a couple different startup companies in various 34 00:01:56,260 --> 00:01:59,440 different areas. One was an online project management 35 00:01:59,440 --> 00:02:03,420 company that we formed, and it ran really nicely for a while, 36 00:02:03,420 --> 00:02:06,780 and then worked with one of the first streaming audio startups, 37 00:02:06,780 --> 00:02:10,860 which was a company called flycast, which was putting radio 38 00:02:10,860 --> 00:02:14,460 stations onto mobile devices in the very first days of the 39 00:02:14,460 --> 00:02:18,960 iTunes store. We ended up morphing more into a software 40 00:02:18,960 --> 00:02:22,460 company and sold the guts of that to Intel. And that point, I 41 00:02:22,460 --> 00:02:25,700 was deep into mobile and applications, and was doing 42 00:02:25,700 --> 00:02:28,880 mobile marketing and then, but I've always had this itch to get 43 00:02:28,880 --> 00:02:31,820 back to the broadcast side of things. And when you know 44 00:02:31,820 --> 00:02:34,160 podcasting came along, I was like, I want to be a part of 45 00:02:34,160 --> 00:02:37,280 this. And did a few different ones for hire for a big 46 00:02:37,280 --> 00:02:40,720 publishing company in Baltimore called agora financial, a thing 47 00:02:40,720 --> 00:02:44,380 called early investing, which was one of their divisions. And 48 00:02:44,380 --> 00:02:46,540 we did their podcast where we interviewed people about 49 00:02:46,540 --> 00:02:49,540 crowdfunding and equity crowdfunding and startups and 50 00:02:49,780 --> 00:02:52,300 all that sort of culture. And that was a lot of fun. Did one 51 00:02:52,300 --> 00:02:58,120 for the Baltimore City paper for a while, and then last year, I 52 00:02:58,120 --> 00:03:01,980 was starting to build, actually a podcast advertising network 53 00:03:01,980 --> 00:03:05,400 for people who are small podcasters who would have no way 54 00:03:05,400 --> 00:03:08,820 of getting advertisers for themselves. And as I was doing 55 00:03:08,820 --> 00:03:13,260 this, it became clear that these people with dozens or hundreds 56 00:03:13,260 --> 00:03:18,240 of listens needed more than $8 worth of advertising, which is 57 00:03:18,240 --> 00:03:21,320 about what they would have gotten. And I decided I'm going 58 00:03:21,320 --> 00:03:25,160 to form this alliance where we can all help each other to grow, 59 00:03:25,220 --> 00:03:29,540 improve and ultimately monetize our podcast in whatever way, and 60 00:03:29,540 --> 00:03:33,140 advertising is just one of the many ways you can do it. So we 61 00:03:33,140 --> 00:03:36,380 started that, and we've now grown to over 1000 members. It 62 00:03:36,500 --> 00:03:40,520 increases every day, and we are providing them with community. 63 00:03:40,520 --> 00:03:42,820 We have a private community. Once you sign up for free at 64 00:03:42,820 --> 00:03:46,660 podcast alliance.org you get an email which directs you to the 65 00:03:46,660 --> 00:03:49,240 private social network, which is kind of like a Facebook group, 66 00:03:49,240 --> 00:03:52,180 without Facebook getting in the way, and something which we 67 00:03:52,180 --> 00:03:54,520 license from a great company called Mighty networks. If 68 00:03:54,520 --> 00:03:57,040 you're building a community, check out mighty networks. I'm 69 00:03:57,040 --> 00:04:01,380 not getting paid for that announcement, and we've been 70 00:04:01,440 --> 00:04:04,860 able to bring people together as guests on each other's podcasts, 71 00:04:04,860 --> 00:04:07,920 doing a lot of cross marketing, and we're now starting to offer 72 00:04:07,920 --> 00:04:11,340 some additional services to them from our other side of the 73 00:04:11,340 --> 00:04:14,520 Alliance, which is an alliance with other sorts of providers 74 00:04:14,940 --> 00:04:17,340 who can help podcasters to achieve their goals. 75 00:04:18,480 --> 00:04:20,600 Robert Plank: Well, fantastic. Well, something that I kind of 76 00:04:20,600 --> 00:04:23,720 heard in in all that that you mentioned is like the something 77 00:04:23,720 --> 00:04:27,260 I think about quite a bit, which is, like picking up skills way 78 00:04:27,260 --> 00:04:31,340 back when, like skills that you learn from your radio wing or 79 00:04:31,340 --> 00:04:34,940 working for the streaming company, or even some of the 80 00:04:34,940 --> 00:04:38,000 like, like marketing, salesmanship sorts of things 81 00:04:38,000 --> 00:04:42,880 even, like from agora And like figuring it out from this job or 82 00:04:42,880 --> 00:04:47,320 this lifetime or this career, and then using it again in a 83 00:04:47,320 --> 00:04:50,620 new, unexpected way sometime later, and like I hear about 84 00:04:50,620 --> 00:04:53,020 that all the time, especially with podcasters, some of them 85 00:04:53,080 --> 00:04:57,220 were radio DJs, but then guess what? Radio sort of went away. 86 00:04:57,280 --> 00:05:00,600 Or some were, you know, voice actors. Or can. Medians and 87 00:05:00,600 --> 00:05:03,420 things like that. And it's like podcasting is this this way for 88 00:05:03,420 --> 00:05:08,820 them to kind of scratch that itch and to get back to the 89 00:05:08,880 --> 00:05:15,060 initial fun phase of I want, I want to be the radio DJ, but I 90 00:05:15,060 --> 00:05:17,820 also somehow want to get paid to that. And so that's kind of what 91 00:05:17,820 --> 00:05:20,420 I'm hearing from a lot of your angels. There's like picking up 92 00:05:20,420 --> 00:05:23,660 some of these skills and using them again later on. And so 93 00:05:23,660 --> 00:05:25,820 something that, like, comes to mind, like, with the stalking 94 00:05:25,820 --> 00:05:29,600 here, is, like, at least for me, like, a lot of the podcasting is 95 00:05:29,600 --> 00:05:32,840 kind of like a love hate sort of situation where, like, sometimes 96 00:05:32,840 --> 00:05:35,360 I think, like, oh, I have to show up to another podcast. Have 97 00:05:35,360 --> 00:05:38,060 to get out of bed and be on camera. But then once I'm I'm 98 00:05:38,060 --> 00:05:41,620 into it. It's fun. And I'm sure that in your alliance, you see a 99 00:05:41,620 --> 00:05:45,280 lot of that people who are like, shy or nervous about getting 100 00:05:45,280 --> 00:05:47,980 their podcasts even going. There's a lot of, like, love, 101 00:05:47,980 --> 00:05:51,520 hate, kind of resentment, at least, I imagine, am I on the 102 00:05:51,520 --> 00:05:54,400 right track here about how it's like, it's fun once you do it, 103 00:05:54,400 --> 00:05:57,700 but then there's a lot of reasons why people don't make 104 00:05:57,700 --> 00:06:00,840 their podcast what it should be sure. 105 00:06:01,260 --> 00:06:04,860 Peter Clough: You know, I divide podcasters into basically this 106 00:06:04,860 --> 00:06:08,220 four categories. You have the 1% which are the ones that 107 00:06:08,220 --> 00:06:11,520 everybody's heard of. Your Joe Rogan's, the gimlet shows, the 108 00:06:11,520 --> 00:06:15,120 things that Spotify is doing. I mean, Michelle Obama, Hillary 109 00:06:15,120 --> 00:06:17,940 Clinton, you know, all these ones that are going to get a 110 00:06:17,940 --> 00:06:20,960 large audience because of who they are, and also the ones that 111 00:06:20,960 --> 00:06:24,380 are part of NPR, or one of the major media companies, like the 112 00:06:24,380 --> 00:06:27,920 New York Times, where they have a built in promotion mechanism, 113 00:06:27,920 --> 00:06:32,600 which is just enormous. That's 1% that leaves a lot more. You 114 00:06:32,600 --> 00:06:36,080 have a large chunk, which are people who are hobbyists. It's a 115 00:06:36,080 --> 00:06:38,480 couple guys that get together, they drink some craft beer, they 116 00:06:38,480 --> 00:06:41,320 talk about what they like, what they don't like. There are tons 117 00:06:41,320 --> 00:06:45,760 of live action, uh, role play, uh, Dungeons and Dragons 118 00:06:45,760 --> 00:06:49,300 podcasts. There's a million True Crime podcasts where people are 119 00:06:49,300 --> 00:06:52,660 trying to, you know, break through. And sometimes that's a 120 00:06:52,660 --> 00:06:55,900 hobby and but some within that, there's people who are better at 121 00:06:55,900 --> 00:06:58,900 it, who actually are putting some money into it, some real 122 00:06:58,900 --> 00:07:02,520 effort. And those are people that I categorize as media 123 00:07:02,520 --> 00:07:05,880 aspirants. They want to build an audience which is big enough so 124 00:07:05,880 --> 00:07:10,500 the audience can sustain them as a media entity. And then we have 125 00:07:10,740 --> 00:07:14,100 the one that I'm most focused on, which is the business 126 00:07:14,100 --> 00:07:18,960 enhancing podcaster that's a person, entrepreneur or coach or 127 00:07:18,960 --> 00:07:23,600 mentor or advisor, or a lawyer or some kind of professional who 128 00:07:23,600 --> 00:07:27,560 has an existing business, but they're looking to expand their 129 00:07:27,560 --> 00:07:31,220 reach, expand their impact, amplify their authentic voice, 130 00:07:31,220 --> 00:07:33,320 and they're looking at podcasting as a way to do this, 131 00:07:33,320 --> 00:07:36,020 and there are many good reasons for it, and with those people, 132 00:07:36,020 --> 00:07:39,560 you don't need a huge audience in order to make a profit, 133 00:07:39,560 --> 00:07:43,000 Because what you're doing is you're letting people know what 134 00:07:43,000 --> 00:07:46,000 you're all about, and what you give them for free is just a 135 00:07:46,000 --> 00:07:48,460 sample. It's just a taste. And it's like if I'm giving you this 136 00:07:48,460 --> 00:07:51,580 advice for free on my podcast, imagine what I can do for you if 137 00:07:51,580 --> 00:07:55,360 you sign up for my program, consulting, whatever it may be, 138 00:07:55,660 --> 00:07:58,660 or check out our startup company, whatever that is. And 139 00:07:58,660 --> 00:08:03,480 that's the area where people need sometimes they need a push, 140 00:08:03,480 --> 00:08:07,320 because the idea is that this is going to take a lot of time. I 141 00:08:07,320 --> 00:08:11,340 don't know how to do this, and frankly, it's pretty easy to 142 00:08:11,340 --> 00:08:15,180 record on a computer, and most professionals can carve out some 143 00:08:15,180 --> 00:08:17,520 time to think about what they're going to do. And many of these 144 00:08:17,520 --> 00:08:20,040 people have content that they've done elsewhere. They're into 145 00:08:20,040 --> 00:08:21,860 speakers, they've done a webinar, they've written an 146 00:08:21,860 --> 00:08:24,800 ebook, they've got stuff that they can repurpose very nicely 147 00:08:24,800 --> 00:08:28,160 for a podcast, or they can have guests, and the guest does the 148 00:08:28,160 --> 00:08:31,400 work by filling in the things, and you're asking them 149 00:08:31,400 --> 00:08:34,580 questions, but then they go, Well, what do I do with it after 150 00:08:34,580 --> 00:08:39,920 that? And that's where a company like mine or others can come in 151 00:08:39,920 --> 00:08:42,460 and do the mixing, the mastering, the uploading, help 152 00:08:42,460 --> 00:08:45,400 them with their social media marketing, help them from the 153 00:08:45,400 --> 00:08:48,040 very beginning, to even strategize on what's the name, 154 00:08:48,040 --> 00:08:50,860 where are we going to host it? How's this going to happen? And 155 00:08:50,860 --> 00:08:53,320 streamlining that whole process is something where the person 156 00:08:53,320 --> 00:08:57,340 can go, okay, all I have to do is think about it and record it 157 00:08:57,340 --> 00:08:59,920 or talk to somebody, and then I send you a file and it's done. 158 00:09:00,280 --> 00:09:03,240 Yes, that's right. Yes, there's some responsibility on your end 159 00:09:03,240 --> 00:09:07,260 for some promotion, because we can't do it all, but if you have 160 00:09:07,260 --> 00:09:09,900 the passion for your business, that will come to you naturally 161 00:09:09,900 --> 00:09:13,800 enough, and we can guide you with excellent ways to do that. 162 00:09:14,760 --> 00:09:15,000 And 163 00:09:15,000 --> 00:09:16,740 Robert Plank: so what I'm getting from your answer there 164 00:09:16,740 --> 00:09:21,320 is that it's that it's okay to not be so obsessed with the 165 00:09:21,320 --> 00:09:25,340 numbers, because if we're not the 1% we're not the hobbyists, 166 00:09:25,340 --> 00:09:28,520 we're not the media buyers, we're just looking to build that 167 00:09:28,520 --> 00:09:32,180 business. I mean it like we like you, like you said, when you 168 00:09:32,180 --> 00:09:35,780 look at some of the numbers of how much listenership these guys 169 00:09:35,780 --> 00:09:38,720 have, or how much money they make, it's it's crazy, like the 170 00:09:38,720 --> 00:09:41,560 amount of money Tim Ferriss gets per episode. It's like, how can 171 00:09:41,560 --> 00:09:44,980 anyone ever catch up? So what you said there, it's reassuring, 172 00:09:45,040 --> 00:09:48,340 because it's kind of like the same idea of like, if you have, 173 00:09:48,340 --> 00:09:51,220 like a book that's a business card, it's okay if it's not a 174 00:09:51,220 --> 00:09:55,240 best seller, because that's not its purpose, right? If you have 175 00:09:55,240 --> 00:09:59,080 a, like a website with not a lot of traffic, or small email list, 176 00:09:59,080 --> 00:10:02,040 like, that's okay. If the goal is to get those handful of 177 00:10:02,040 --> 00:10:05,280 clients that pay for everything, you don't need to be like the 178 00:10:05,280 --> 00:10:07,200 next Oprah, or someone that completely No, 179 00:10:07,200 --> 00:10:09,240 Peter Clough: not at all. And, and there's nothing wrong with 180 00:10:09,240 --> 00:10:12,300 being a media aspirant either. If you if you can catch 181 00:10:12,540 --> 00:10:15,660 lightning in a bottle, and you know, and you've got the talent, 182 00:10:15,660 --> 00:10:19,980 you've got the chops, and you've got the content, and you you hit 183 00:10:19,980 --> 00:10:22,640 on something that strikes with the cultural zeitgeist. You 184 00:10:22,940 --> 00:10:26,900 know, you can explode and it can happen for you, but that's the 185 00:10:26,900 --> 00:10:29,420 luck factor. That's the X factor that goes into anti 186 00:10:29,420 --> 00:10:32,660 entrepreneurial venture, is, are you going to hit that? And I've 187 00:10:32,720 --> 00:10:36,200 been involved in enough failed startup ventures that you don't 188 00:10:36,200 --> 00:10:36,800 always hit it. 189 00:10:38,840 --> 00:10:41,080 Robert Plank: And kind of along those lines, like, something 190 00:10:41,080 --> 00:10:43,360 that, something that kind of, I don't know, like, messes with me 191 00:10:43,360 --> 00:10:46,300 every now and then is, you'll hear about someone saying, Well, 192 00:10:46,360 --> 00:10:49,540 does the world be in another podcast? Or people saying, like, 193 00:10:49,660 --> 00:10:52,060 well, what's your podcast about? And I'll say this, and they'll 194 00:10:52,060 --> 00:10:54,760 say, Well, that's not completely unique. That's not something 195 00:10:54,760 --> 00:10:57,040 that's like, never been done before. And sometimes I think, 196 00:10:57,040 --> 00:11:01,020 like, is that really necessary? Like, can't Can't We? Like, you 197 00:11:01,020 --> 00:11:04,680 said, like, make a podcast that's about like our our core 198 00:11:04,860 --> 00:11:09,960 advice, or our secret sauce, help out someone who is like our 199 00:11:09,960 --> 00:11:12,180 ideal client. I mean, have you come across this? Or do you have 200 00:11:12,180 --> 00:11:14,580 any thoughts on this? Of people that say, like, your podcast, 201 00:11:14,580 --> 00:11:17,640 like needs to be like, the most unique, brand new thing that's 202 00:11:17,640 --> 00:11:20,040 ever been done. And I it kind of It messes me up a little 203 00:11:20,040 --> 00:11:22,460 Peter Clough: bit. Well, you know, it is unique because it's 204 00:11:22,460 --> 00:11:29,000 you, first of all, you, precious little snowflake, you but, you 205 00:11:29,000 --> 00:11:33,260 know, think about this way, there is $1 store that is just 206 00:11:33,260 --> 00:11:38,000 opening a quarter mile from my house. Prior to that, the 207 00:11:38,000 --> 00:11:41,140 closest Dollar Store was maybe four or five whole miles away, 208 00:11:41,800 --> 00:11:45,880 will this dollar store sit empty? No. People who are in 209 00:11:45,880 --> 00:11:51,400 this area, this niche, to take a metaphor here, will go to that 210 00:11:51,400 --> 00:11:54,820 dollar store. So if you are serving a niche, whether it is 211 00:11:54,820 --> 00:12:00,240 restaurants in Richmond or skiers in Vermont or skiers on a 212 00:12:00,240 --> 00:12:04,320 particular slope, on a particular mountain in Vermont, 213 00:12:04,620 --> 00:12:08,400 you know, or whatever it is, you can, you can niche yourself down 214 00:12:08,580 --> 00:12:12,420 so that you know the people who are totally into you will find 215 00:12:12,420 --> 00:12:17,700 you. I mean, as a radio guy, we always used to compare radio and 216 00:12:17,700 --> 00:12:20,300 television. Is like people will put a radio station bumper 217 00:12:20,300 --> 00:12:23,360 sticker on their car to say, This is me. Radio is an 218 00:12:23,360 --> 00:12:26,180 individual choice. You listen to it mostly by yourself. 219 00:12:26,360 --> 00:12:29,240 Television, you watch programs you don't you're not loyal to 220 00:12:29,240 --> 00:12:34,160 stations, per se. With cable, that's changed a bit. But the in 221 00:12:34,160 --> 00:12:36,980 with radio, it being a personal choice, but you had, maybe, 222 00:12:36,980 --> 00:12:40,040 depending on your market, between 12 and 24 stations that 223 00:12:40,040 --> 00:12:43,600 you could listen to with podcasting and streaming audio, 224 00:12:43,600 --> 00:12:48,160 the choices are infinite. The biggest challenge is to gain 225 00:12:48,160 --> 00:12:51,820 attention, to rise above the noise and find the people who 226 00:12:51,820 --> 00:12:55,660 are your tribe. Now, if you are somebody who has been blogging, 227 00:12:55,660 --> 00:12:59,140 has been marketing, has an email list, you're ahead of the game. 228 00:12:59,140 --> 00:13:02,880 But everybody has friends and everybody has Facebook and 229 00:13:02,880 --> 00:13:05,340 everybody has LinkedIn, and there's a lot of things that you 230 00:13:05,340 --> 00:13:07,860 can do to leverage those platforms to get the first 231 00:13:07,860 --> 00:13:11,400 people into your show, also reaching out for the highest 232 00:13:11,400 --> 00:13:14,460 profile guests you can find who then perhaps would promote it to 233 00:13:14,460 --> 00:13:17,280 their audience. And it's a step by step process. It's not 234 00:13:17,280 --> 00:13:20,100 something to be discouraged about. When your first show only 235 00:13:20,100 --> 00:13:24,980 gets you know, 10 or 20 listeners, you should see a 236 00:13:24,980 --> 00:13:27,620 steady increase. And if you're doing good content, you will, 237 00:13:29,960 --> 00:13:31,760 Robert Plank: Oh, okay. And, and, I mean, you always hear 238 00:13:31,760 --> 00:13:34,700 about that whole that statistic about, like, the average podcast 239 00:13:34,700 --> 00:13:38,240 dies after six episodes. And so I imagine to just solve that 240 00:13:38,240 --> 00:13:41,980 problem, to, like, continue putting up the content, as 241 00:13:41,980 --> 00:13:44,920 you're saying. I imagine that a community like yours, where you 242 00:13:44,920 --> 00:13:47,800 have everyone, kind of lifting everyone else up, can really 243 00:13:47,800 --> 00:13:50,980 help with that. And like, My imagination is already kind of 244 00:13:51,040 --> 00:13:54,220 going going wild with, like, the different things that I imagine 245 00:13:54,220 --> 00:13:57,100 happens sometimes in this group, like getting unstuck about 246 00:13:57,100 --> 00:14:02,160 advice, or hooking up like a podcast, like creator with an 247 00:14:02,160 --> 00:14:05,040 editor, but I imagine that, like, there's some even cooler 248 00:14:05,040 --> 00:14:09,540 store. And another thing that is probably cool is but people can 249 00:14:09,540 --> 00:14:12,120 kind of get their feet wet and, like, try each other out and, 250 00:14:12,120 --> 00:14:15,120 like, have this kind of these non scary guests, because 251 00:14:15,120 --> 00:14:17,820 everyone knows each other. But I imagine that you have some 252 00:14:17,820 --> 00:14:22,100 interesting stories about some of these people who have gotten 253 00:14:22,100 --> 00:14:24,920 further with their podcasts than they would without your 254 00:14:24,920 --> 00:14:27,140 community. So can you share something like that? Anything 255 00:14:27,140 --> 00:14:28,460 come to mind? I'll try 256 00:14:29,300 --> 00:14:33,140 Peter Clough: to think of a specific I know that you know, 257 00:14:33,260 --> 00:14:37,100 within the within the community, there's been a real increase in 258 00:14:37,100 --> 00:14:42,520 the amount of Twitter, retweeting and and tagging 259 00:14:42,520 --> 00:14:46,060 that's that's going on, and people who are, you know, really 260 00:14:46,060 --> 00:14:49,300 just appreciating each other, and, you know, swapping listen 261 00:14:49,300 --> 00:14:52,000 for Listen, review for review, that kind of stuff. So there is 262 00:14:52,000 --> 00:14:58,720 a lot of that that goes on the sorry, at the, you know, as far 263 00:14:58,720 --> 00:15:01,740 as a have, I. Heard a really great story that would make 264 00:15:01,740 --> 00:15:05,160 great radio. No, don't have one. Don't have one, but yeah, 265 00:15:05,160 --> 00:15:09,240 they're out there. The other thing which I was going to say 266 00:15:09,240 --> 00:15:15,120 about the alliance is it really like anything you get out of it, 267 00:15:15,120 --> 00:15:18,540 what you put into it, the people who are active on the messaging 268 00:15:18,720 --> 00:15:21,560 social network will get more out of it than somebody who just 269 00:15:21,560 --> 00:15:24,920 signs up sees my emails come to them every week or so and 270 00:15:25,040 --> 00:15:29,420 doesn't read it. So that's a you know, that's what comes down to, 271 00:15:30,500 --> 00:15:32,960 Robert Plank: oh, okay, fair enough. So participate whenever 272 00:15:32,960 --> 00:15:36,140 there's a chance to, you know, to promote your podcast 273 00:15:36,140 --> 00:15:39,380 somewhere, or get a guest or be somewhere that then jump at that 274 00:15:39,380 --> 00:15:43,120 chance. And so as far as, like, you know, you dealing with all 275 00:15:43,120 --> 00:15:46,180 these people that are creating their podcast. Do you ever see 276 00:15:46,180 --> 00:15:49,420 something like going wrong again and again? Do you see like a big 277 00:15:49,420 --> 00:15:53,620 podcast mistake that just, it's so commonplace and so easy to 278 00:15:53,620 --> 00:15:56,020 fix, and you just, you need to get it off your chest. You say, 279 00:15:56,380 --> 00:15:59,740 everyone, everyone podcasting, stop doing this. Anything come 280 00:15:59,740 --> 00:16:00,220 to mind? 281 00:16:01,060 --> 00:16:03,720 Peter Clough: There are a bunch of podcast cliches which need to 282 00:16:03,720 --> 00:16:08,880 go away. I think first and foremost is being a stickler for 283 00:16:08,880 --> 00:16:14,220 audio quality. You know, if you are two guys or three people 284 00:16:14,220 --> 00:16:17,280 sitting around one laptop microphone and you're posting it 285 00:16:17,280 --> 00:16:20,420 to anchor, you're not a professional, you're not going 286 00:16:20,420 --> 00:16:24,200 to catch lightning in a bottle. It's not going to happen. You've 287 00:16:24,200 --> 00:16:27,920 got to invest a little bit in not only buying a microphone, 288 00:16:27,980 --> 00:16:31,220 but understanding how to talk on a microphone. You know, you 289 00:16:32,060 --> 00:16:34,700 don't talk like this, like you're David Lee Roth, you know, 290 00:16:34,700 --> 00:16:38,180 you talk across it. I mean, simple stuff. And anybody can 291 00:16:38,180 --> 00:16:40,600 learn this. There's a million online tutorials. There's all 292 00:16:40,600 --> 00:16:43,120 sorts of things you can find, but so many people just, you 293 00:16:43,120 --> 00:16:46,900 know, they ignore it. They just open up. And along these lines, 294 00:16:46,960 --> 00:16:50,980 is the idea of, I want to be raw and authentic. That's why we 295 00:16:50,980 --> 00:16:54,460 don't edit. That's why we don't rehearse. Well, most improv can 296 00:16:54,460 --> 00:16:58,600 use a rewrite, and we all need editors said before. We're all 297 00:16:58,600 --> 00:17:01,920 overwhelmed by the amount of choices we have, and the fewer 298 00:17:01,920 --> 00:17:05,580 things that you have that turn people off, the more the 299 00:17:05,580 --> 00:17:10,680 accessible you're going to be. You know, the cliches about, you 300 00:17:10,680 --> 00:17:14,640 know, don't forget to read, you know, review and radar podcast, 301 00:17:14,760 --> 00:17:17,280 that's important stuff. It should be in there. You should 302 00:17:17,280 --> 00:17:22,400 ask people to subscribe. Just don't be a bore about it. I 303 00:17:22,400 --> 00:17:27,380 think that you know, the mistakes that people make also 304 00:17:27,380 --> 00:17:31,220 are being a little over ambitious about how often 305 00:17:31,220 --> 00:17:36,620 they're going to release an episode weekly is sort of 306 00:17:36,620 --> 00:17:41,000 accepted as the kind of the standard, in a way. But there's 307 00:17:41,000 --> 00:17:43,660 nothing wrong with doing one every two weeks if you don't 308 00:17:43,660 --> 00:17:46,480 feel you have the time to put it out there, because if people 309 00:17:46,480 --> 00:17:52,000 subscribe, they'll see it in your feed. The if you're going 310 00:17:52,000 --> 00:17:57,820 to commit to a week, you commit to a week once a week, you will 311 00:17:57,820 --> 00:18:00,840 see how fast weeks come around, like you've never seen before, 312 00:18:01,800 --> 00:18:05,340 but that's why it's also good. When you're starting out to have 313 00:18:05,640 --> 00:18:09,000 four to six episodes already recorded before you actually 314 00:18:09,180 --> 00:18:12,840 post them up and launch one, you'll get better before you 315 00:18:12,840 --> 00:18:15,060 even put it out there. You'll listen to the first one after 316 00:18:15,060 --> 00:18:17,460 you've done your fourth ago. Maybe I could do that better. 317 00:18:17,580 --> 00:18:20,460 You might release the fourth one first who knows, but you want to 318 00:18:20,460 --> 00:18:23,180 have something where you've got a little bit of a buffer in your 319 00:18:23,180 --> 00:18:26,420 life for those times where you know unexpected things happen 320 00:18:26,420 --> 00:18:28,820 and illness whatever. Because if you say you're going to do it 321 00:18:28,820 --> 00:18:31,820 weekly, do it weekly. If you say you're going to do it monthly, 322 00:18:31,820 --> 00:18:34,760 do it monthly. If you say this is a limited run of 12 shows 323 00:18:34,760 --> 00:18:38,300 where I'm going to explore one topic, great, but you know, when 324 00:18:38,300 --> 00:18:44,440 you set your expectations live up to them the and that also, 325 00:18:44,440 --> 00:18:46,780 are, you know, your self expectations, you know, are you 326 00:18:46,780 --> 00:18:49,120 really going to do this? And when you're talking about pod 327 00:18:49,120 --> 00:18:52,780 fade, the idea of people giving up after six or seven, you know, 328 00:18:52,780 --> 00:18:55,600 that's fine. You know, there are people who join gyms and quit, 329 00:18:55,600 --> 00:18:58,000 people who buy bicycles. They ride it a few times. It sits in 330 00:18:58,000 --> 00:19:00,480 the garage. I mean, stuff like that happens. This is an area 331 00:19:00,660 --> 00:19:03,180 where people are drawn into it for a lot of interest. But if 332 00:19:03,180 --> 00:19:06,540 you are a business person and you are committing yourself to 333 00:19:06,540 --> 00:19:09,540 marketing, and you're using podcasting as a marketing tool, 334 00:19:10,320 --> 00:19:13,080 then that's something where you know, you say, Okay, I'm going 335 00:19:13,080 --> 00:19:15,840 to do this weekly. I'm going to do it every two weeks, and 336 00:19:15,840 --> 00:19:18,120 you're going to keep going, because there's always going to 337 00:19:18,120 --> 00:19:21,440 be something happening in your industry. And the great part 338 00:19:21,440 --> 00:19:24,680 about it is library content lives forever. You know, you've 339 00:19:24,680 --> 00:19:27,740 got these shows. You've got this, you know, pointers you're 340 00:19:27,740 --> 00:19:32,300 on episode 22 and a listener question comes in to you. You 341 00:19:32,300 --> 00:19:35,480 say, you know, we cover that in detail on Episode Seven with our 342 00:19:35,480 --> 00:19:38,720 guest, SOTY so and you can go back and listen to that, and you 343 00:19:38,720 --> 00:19:42,160 can point people back to it. You can recut episodes and put 344 00:19:42,160 --> 00:19:45,760 together things that fit together later, and re release 345 00:19:45,760 --> 00:19:48,940 things. There's no, you know, there's no limits on the 346 00:19:48,940 --> 00:19:49,780 flexibility. 347 00:19:51,340 --> 00:19:54,400 Robert Plank: You said, yeah, and, I mean, you take a lot of 348 00:19:54,400 --> 00:19:56,920 the pressure off, right? Because that's a really good answer. 349 00:19:56,920 --> 00:19:59,680 Because, like, you know it, there's always that fear of 350 00:19:59,680 --> 00:20:02,940 drop. Off, and if you drop off, it's okay to just have those 351 00:20:02,940 --> 00:20:06,120 handful of episodes. I mean, I still think back to, I found 352 00:20:06,120 --> 00:20:09,480 some podcast episode once where somebody compared, like the, 353 00:20:09,480 --> 00:20:12,420 like the Dave Ramsey approach to finances, versus Robert 354 00:20:12,420 --> 00:20:15,660 Kiyosaki. And like that content that will live forever, that 355 00:20:15,660 --> 00:20:21,380 that's very evergreen and but so what you said there is something 356 00:20:21,380 --> 00:20:23,960 that, I think it's something that can help by having the 357 00:20:23,960 --> 00:20:27,440 community that whole idea of like the content runway, where 358 00:20:27,980 --> 00:20:31,340 you start off with the best of expectations, I'll release every 359 00:20:31,400 --> 00:20:33,860 week, and then the week suddenly, suddenly fly by, 360 00:20:33,860 --> 00:20:36,740 suddenly time speeds up. But if you have those four or five 361 00:20:36,740 --> 00:20:39,500 episodes in the can, there's almost like more of an abundance 362 00:20:39,500 --> 00:20:43,780 mindset where you say, Well, if I don't have anything good this 363 00:20:43,780 --> 00:20:46,120 week, there's still three episodes left. There's still 364 00:20:46,120 --> 00:20:49,360 four episodes left in the buffer. And then if I kind of 365 00:20:49,360 --> 00:20:52,240 take that break, and when I suddenly wake up one morning and 366 00:20:52,240 --> 00:20:55,420 I have, like, three ideas, now, I can get all these three weeks 367 00:20:55,420 --> 00:20:57,700 ahead. So it feels like it takes a lot of the pressure off, 368 00:20:57,700 --> 00:21:00,720 because I think that, like, one time I listened to a podcast 369 00:21:00,720 --> 00:21:04,500 episode. And the guy was like, this is the Ask Me Anything, Q, 370 00:21:04,500 --> 00:21:08,460 a episode, Part 11. And I'm like, There's not even a topic. 371 00:21:08,460 --> 00:21:11,820 I The only thing about unique about this episode is that it's 372 00:21:11,820 --> 00:21:14,220 the 11th one. And I started listening, and he was like, 373 00:21:14,220 --> 00:21:16,440 patting himself in the back and saying, like, oh, I can't 374 00:21:16,440 --> 00:21:19,500 believe we're at the 11th one on this. I'm like, can't Can't you 375 00:21:19,500 --> 00:21:23,600 do what you just said, and like, kind of group all the topics 376 00:21:23,600 --> 00:21:25,820 about, like, e commerce together, if that's what you're 377 00:21:25,820 --> 00:21:28,640 talking about. And so, so, yeah, that's that's really good, is 378 00:21:28,700 --> 00:21:33,620 Jones, don't be just always scrambling for that new content. 379 00:21:33,620 --> 00:21:37,580 Have that stuff in the in the can, and I've never heard that 380 00:21:37,580 --> 00:21:41,920 advice that you've given before, of go back and kind of find the 381 00:21:41,920 --> 00:21:45,640 best clips and put them together, like I might even put 382 00:21:45,640 --> 00:21:49,360 the put the virtual assistant on that task, and go and listen and 383 00:21:49,360 --> 00:21:53,500 find someone like the best of in this particular topic. Yeah, so, 384 00:21:53,800 --> 00:21:56,740 so, yeah. I mean, there's been like, a bunch of like, kind of 385 00:21:56,860 --> 00:22:00,420 feel good advice, practical advice, and then kind of nooks 386 00:22:00,420 --> 00:22:03,540 and crannies to kind of give us a lot to think about. But 387 00:22:03,720 --> 00:22:07,320 thinking is one thing. Taking actions is another thing. So as 388 00:22:07,320 --> 00:22:11,040 far as this podcast Alliance, and what people should be doing 389 00:22:11,040 --> 00:22:14,100 after listening to our conversation today, how the heck 390 00:22:14,100 --> 00:22:18,120 do we join up and what's the motivation to do? Or why should 391 00:22:18,120 --> 00:22:21,440 people be joining the Alliance instead of, like, waiting six 392 00:22:21,440 --> 00:22:22,700 months or six years to do it? 393 00:22:23,900 --> 00:22:25,880 Peter Clough: Well, you can join the Alliance, even you've done 394 00:22:25,880 --> 00:22:29,480 it on podcast. It's free, so there's really not a real 395 00:22:29,480 --> 00:22:33,320 barrier there. It's very simple. It's just podcast Alliance dot O 396 00:22:33,320 --> 00:22:41,080 R G. And my email is Peter at podcast Alliance dot O R G. I 397 00:22:41,080 --> 00:22:45,160 can be found on LinkedIn, as see Peter Clow. And you know, 398 00:22:45,160 --> 00:22:47,440 anybody's looking to speak with me about it, joining the 399 00:22:47,440 --> 00:22:50,800 Alliance is a great thing to do. It's, as I said, it's, it's 400 00:22:50,800 --> 00:22:54,040 free, and you bring to it, you know yourself and your energy, 401 00:22:54,100 --> 00:22:56,860 and you interact with others in the private network. And you'll, 402 00:22:56,920 --> 00:22:59,860 you'll go far, or even if you just are opening up the emails 403 00:22:59,860 --> 00:23:02,880 that I send out, which are often promotional opportunities, 404 00:23:03,720 --> 00:23:06,600 various alliances that we've come up with with other people 405 00:23:07,260 --> 00:23:11,700 to help our podcast members. And you know, it can benefit you 406 00:23:11,700 --> 00:23:15,000 right there, right out of the gate. And then, as far as you 407 00:23:15,000 --> 00:23:17,760 know, if you're looking as a business person to do marketing 408 00:23:18,120 --> 00:23:20,480 with a podcast, you haven't thought about it before. I do 409 00:23:20,480 --> 00:23:23,420 offer a free half hour consultation to anybody who's 410 00:23:23,420 --> 00:23:25,640 interested in talking about, what does it really take, you 411 00:23:25,640 --> 00:23:28,160 know? Because I just skimmed past a bunch of stuff there. If 412 00:23:28,160 --> 00:23:30,620 they're interested in that, you know, they can reach out as 413 00:23:30,620 --> 00:23:32,780 Robert Plank: well. Well, fantastic. That is Peter at 414 00:23:32,780 --> 00:23:36,920 podcast alliance.org and then podcast alliance.org is the 415 00:23:36,920 --> 00:23:39,800 place to sign up. And what comes to mind, for some reason, when 416 00:23:39,800 --> 00:23:42,520 you're explaining this is that that whole, I don't know if it's 417 00:23:42,520 --> 00:23:45,520 a saying or if it's not, but basically, if you're thinking 418 00:23:45,520 --> 00:23:49,300 about going to college and it's overwhelming, just get the 419 00:23:49,420 --> 00:23:53,200 catalog for the college. And if you're thinking about buying a 420 00:23:53,200 --> 00:23:56,380 Ferrari, and you're have all these choices, just get the 421 00:23:56,380 --> 00:23:59,320 catalog for the Ferrari. So what comes to mind when, because, 422 00:23:59,320 --> 00:24:01,440 like, like, you said, like, there's a million decisions to 423 00:24:01,440 --> 00:24:04,980 be made and a million things to figure out that's okay, that's 424 00:24:04,980 --> 00:24:07,920 all for the future, the very first step that should be done 425 00:24:07,920 --> 00:24:10,980 right now, even while everyone's still watching and listening to 426 00:24:10,980 --> 00:24:14,520 the show, go to podcast alliance.org have it in your 427 00:24:14,520 --> 00:24:17,520 phone, have it on your browser tablet. Go to podcastliance.org 428 00:24:18,180 --> 00:24:21,200 and sign up and then take the next step from there, but at 429 00:24:21,200 --> 00:24:24,380 least this way, you will be getting those emails from Peter, 430 00:24:24,380 --> 00:24:26,900 and at least this way, even if you won't be ready for the next 431 00:24:26,900 --> 00:24:30,320 two or three weeks, or maybe, maybe you have a bad taste in 432 00:24:30,320 --> 00:24:33,200 your mouth about podcasting because you tried it, or you 433 00:24:33,200 --> 00:24:35,720 made it too complicated, or whatever the problem was, it's 434 00:24:35,720 --> 00:24:40,660 okay get re exposed to the list of podcasting world. And one 435 00:24:40,660 --> 00:24:43,000 thing that I kind of forgot to mention here, Peter is, you 436 00:24:43,000 --> 00:24:46,540 know, as you were explaining about, like, the the worry about 437 00:24:46,540 --> 00:24:50,560 the quality, something that was like reassuring for me was like, 438 00:24:50,560 --> 00:24:53,980 kind of slowly ramping up the equipment, right? And so, like, 439 00:24:54,040 --> 00:24:56,620 at first I just had, like a thinking little headset, but 440 00:24:56,620 --> 00:24:59,260 then, like, after a while, I got, you know, like the fancy 441 00:24:59,380 --> 00:25:02,640 kind of. Like the studio mic, like you were showing and after 442 00:25:02,640 --> 00:25:05,280 a while, I figured out, like, oh, I should get a special mouse 443 00:25:05,280 --> 00:25:07,980 that, like, doesn't make a clicking sound, so that way, 444 00:25:07,980 --> 00:25:10,680 when I'm podcasting, like, you don't always pick up the clicks, 445 00:25:10,680 --> 00:25:13,740 but like, just, I don't know, the thing that was reassuring to 446 00:25:13,740 --> 00:25:17,280 me that I wish someone had told me years ago was like, fit, 447 00:25:17,340 --> 00:25:20,540 you'll, you can, you'll slowly increase the quality as you 448 00:25:20,540 --> 00:25:23,180 figure out some of the things, and kind of trade up to better 449 00:25:23,180 --> 00:25:25,700 equipment, and things will become more natural, and it's 450 00:25:25,700 --> 00:25:29,300 all just there in the future. And so this community sounds 451 00:25:29,300 --> 00:25:32,480 fantastic. I mean, I'll be joining just at least to see 452 00:25:32,540 --> 00:25:34,880 what's happening and see who I can connect with. And I know 453 00:25:34,880 --> 00:25:38,060 that me, I always kind of have a little bit of a mental block. As 454 00:25:38,060 --> 00:25:41,080 far as appearing on other podcasts. I need to do more of 455 00:25:41,080 --> 00:25:45,100 that, so even I will be joining podcast alliance.org to be 456 00:25:45,100 --> 00:25:47,380 around those like minded people and get the push in the right 457 00:25:47,380 --> 00:25:50,320 direction. So everyone can and should go to podcast 458 00:25:50,320 --> 00:25:53,740 alliance.org any final parting thoughts? Peter, as we wrap up, 459 00:25:53,740 --> 00:25:54,460 wind down here, 460 00:25:55,120 --> 00:25:58,240 Peter Clough: well as we come to the end of this year, and this 461 00:25:58,240 --> 00:26:01,740 is a heck of a year to look back and evaluate and think about, 462 00:26:02,220 --> 00:26:04,920 the only way to think about 2021, is, it's going to be 463 00:26:04,920 --> 00:26:08,880 better, and that, you know, the time to start planning is, is 464 00:26:08,880 --> 00:26:11,820 now, you know just, you know, just start thinking about, you 465 00:26:11,820 --> 00:26:14,520 know what it is you want to do. What do you want to achieve? And 466 00:26:14,520 --> 00:26:17,580 then, yeah, don't make your goals too daunting. But you 467 00:26:17,580 --> 00:26:21,560 know, just, you know, don't make them too easy either. That's a 468 00:26:21,560 --> 00:26:22,100 parting thought. 469 00:26:26,600 --> 00:26:29,180 Robert Plank: Did you leave us a quick review on iTunes? Yet it's 470 00:26:29,180 --> 00:26:32,120 quick and easy. Just go to marketer of the day.com/itunes, 471 00:26:33,920 --> 00:26:37,940 click the View in iTunes button, and we would be very grateful 472 00:26:37,940 --> 00:26:38,060 you.