1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:02,040 Unknown: Marketer of the Day episode, 770 2 00:00:03,360 --> 00:00:04,140 listening, 3 00:00:04,200 --> 00:00:06,180 adapting, appreciating, 4 00:00:06,480 --> 00:00:08,820 Robert Plank: master your team communication skills with 5 00:00:08,820 --> 00:00:16,440 Meredith Bell. Everyone and welcome back to the marketer of 6 00:00:16,440 --> 00:00:20,040 the day podcast. We are here with return guest Meredith Bell. 7 00:00:20,100 --> 00:00:23,480 She was previously here at marketer of a date.com forward 8 00:00:23,480 --> 00:00:27,020 slash, 438, today, we're going to be talking about 9 00:00:27,080 --> 00:00:31,160 communication skills, how to be a truly powerful listener, how 10 00:00:31,160 --> 00:00:35,660 to accept constructive feedback, all this pesky peopling sort of 11 00:00:35,660 --> 00:00:38,060 activity. So Meredith, glad to be talking to you again. 12 00:00:38,360 --> 00:00:40,540 Meredith Bell: Oh, Robert, it's great to be back. It's been a 13 00:00:40,540 --> 00:00:42,580 long time. Yeah, 14 00:00:42,580 --> 00:00:45,400 Robert Plank: so, I mean, in the past, I don't know, like couple 15 00:00:45,400 --> 00:00:49,240 of years, what has gotten you and about what has gotten you 16 00:00:49,240 --> 00:00:51,940 excited about your business, and what's kind of on the cutting 17 00:00:51,940 --> 00:00:52,300 edge for you? 18 00:00:52,900 --> 00:00:57,040 Meredith Bell: Well, 2020, was a year, of course, as you know, 19 00:00:57,040 --> 00:01:01,440 that turned everybody upside down. But we had intentionally 20 00:01:01,440 --> 00:01:04,920 planned on writing and publishing books, so it worked 21 00:01:04,920 --> 00:01:11,220 out very well. So that's a big thing. My business partners, I 22 00:01:11,220 --> 00:01:14,040 have two of them, and we have worked together now for 30 23 00:01:14,040 --> 00:01:18,000 years, and we just decided it was time to put in writing in 24 00:01:18,000 --> 00:01:22,220 the form of books that information, knowledge, wisdom 25 00:01:22,220 --> 00:01:26,000 we've acquired over all these years. And so I wrote a book 26 00:01:26,000 --> 00:01:29,840 called strong for performance, about how to create a coaching 27 00:01:29,840 --> 00:01:32,780 culture and make sure your training programs stick. And 28 00:01:32,780 --> 00:01:38,840 then Denny and I published a book in August of 2020, around 29 00:01:38,840 --> 00:01:42,700 the top 10 communication skills, because consistently, over the 30 00:01:42,700 --> 00:01:47,440 years, as people have used our software tools, they have, you 31 00:01:47,440 --> 00:01:50,920 know, mentioned time and again, the number one issue in 32 00:01:50,920 --> 00:01:55,060 organizations, whether it's people inside talking to each 33 00:01:55,060 --> 00:01:59,380 other, people talking to vendors or clients, it's communication 34 00:01:59,920 --> 00:02:03,420 that always gets In the way. So we wanted to create a book that 35 00:02:03,420 --> 00:02:09,120 would be easy for people to follow, use, implement on 36 00:02:09,180 --> 00:02:12,840 connecting more effectively with others. So the title of it, as 37 00:02:12,840 --> 00:02:18,420 we both have, is connect with your team, mastering the top 10 38 00:02:18,420 --> 00:02:22,100 communication skills. So that's what I'm excited about. We are 39 00:02:22,340 --> 00:02:25,520 passionate about getting this out to people to reduce the 40 00:02:25,520 --> 00:02:30,620 amount of pain that's in so many workplaces. And what's nice is 41 00:02:30,620 --> 00:02:34,040 these same skills can be used at home, so to improve 42 00:02:34,040 --> 00:02:36,020 relationships across the board, 43 00:02:37,160 --> 00:02:40,840 Robert Plank: it has so many uses, and I like how the way you 44 00:02:40,840 --> 00:02:45,880 set this up, where it seems like at the end of every chapter is 45 00:02:45,880 --> 00:02:49,120 like this chapter in a nutshell, and there's just a lot of weight 46 00:02:49,120 --> 00:02:53,320 and, like appendices. So if you decide that maybe you don't have 47 00:02:53,320 --> 00:02:55,960 time right now to go through every chapter, you can just go 48 00:02:55,960 --> 00:02:59,200 to the end of each chapter. You can see kind of the cliff notes. 49 00:02:59,200 --> 00:03:04,680 I like how that is built in and a lot of this. I mean, the two 50 00:03:04,740 --> 00:03:07,260 things come to mind. One thing that comes to mind is thinking 51 00:03:07,260 --> 00:03:10,860 back to old workplaces and old bosses. And it seems like this 52 00:03:10,860 --> 00:03:14,160 whole concept of the communication skills, it's like, 53 00:03:14,220 --> 00:03:17,940 if it's if it's lacking, you really notice it. But then if 54 00:03:17,940 --> 00:03:21,020 that that boss is is doing things right, or your coworkers 55 00:03:21,020 --> 00:03:24,260 are communicating well with you, you don't really notice it, and 56 00:03:24,260 --> 00:03:29,360 you don't really appreciate it. So it's sometimes hard to get 57 00:03:29,360 --> 00:03:32,720 what the value is in here, because when it's working, it's 58 00:03:32,720 --> 00:03:35,120 just you don't really notice it. And then the second thing that 59 00:03:35,120 --> 00:03:39,080 comes to mind is that lately, I've been getting better at not 60 00:03:39,080 --> 00:03:43,180 doing all the work myself and and a hiring and it seemed like 61 00:03:43,480 --> 00:03:46,660 years ago, I thought there were just one of two extremes, either 62 00:03:46,720 --> 00:03:49,660 I run it all myself and it's all perfect, even though it's not, 63 00:03:49,660 --> 00:03:52,600 but you tell yourself that, or someone else runs it, and it's 64 00:03:52,600 --> 00:03:56,200 terrible, even though there's there's an adjusting period. And 65 00:03:56,200 --> 00:04:00,360 lately, I've been getting warmed up to that idea of just let 66 00:04:00,360 --> 00:04:04,320 someone go and let someone spend a few hours on something or a 67 00:04:04,320 --> 00:04:08,040 few days, and then fix it, and have kind of that, that forward 68 00:04:08,040 --> 00:04:13,500 thinking optimism, knowing that they'll do better long term if 69 00:04:13,500 --> 00:04:18,060 they learn it, I guess, by doing, and that it's just better 70 00:04:18,060 --> 00:04:23,000 for everyone. If you are are polite, and you let them do 71 00:04:23,000 --> 00:04:25,400 their thing and figure it out, and it's, it's a new way of 72 00:04:25,400 --> 00:04:25,940 thinking. 73 00:04:26,240 --> 00:04:29,780 Meredith Bell: Well, and you know, Robert building on that 74 00:04:29,780 --> 00:04:34,040 idea, we have a chapter in the book called Getting buy in for 75 00:04:34,040 --> 00:04:38,300 expectations, which I think is perfect for someone like you and 76 00:04:38,300 --> 00:04:41,860 other entrepreneurs who don't want to necessarily hire 77 00:04:41,860 --> 00:04:45,520 someone, but whether you've got an employee or someone you're 78 00:04:46,000 --> 00:04:50,860 contracting with to get things done, the idea of getting 79 00:04:50,860 --> 00:04:55,180 agreement upfront is so important on you know what is 80 00:04:55,720 --> 00:04:59,680 expected, what you're agreeing to do, because too many times we 81 00:04:59,680 --> 00:05:05,040 think. We've been clear, or we make assumptions about what the 82 00:05:05,040 --> 00:05:09,120 other person understood, and then we find out later when it 83 00:05:09,120 --> 00:05:13,860 didn't get done correctly or on time, that, you know, somewhere 84 00:05:13,860 --> 00:05:18,540 the ball got dropped. So I think it behooves business owners like 85 00:05:18,540 --> 00:05:23,600 us to take responsibility and take the initiative for being 86 00:05:23,600 --> 00:05:27,740 clear about instructions and ensure the other person really 87 00:05:28,040 --> 00:05:33,920 understands, accepts and agrees to those expectations or 88 00:05:33,920 --> 00:05:37,040 parameters that have been established. And 89 00:05:37,040 --> 00:05:39,680 Robert Plank: I've noticed that technique lately. I'm not sure 90 00:05:39,680 --> 00:05:42,520 if it was always there, and I've just now picked up on it, but 91 00:05:42,580 --> 00:05:46,180 I've noticed lately more and more with these online chats, 92 00:05:46,180 --> 00:05:51,700 dealing with like, one coach, or like, I'm his coach. I don't 93 00:05:51,700 --> 00:05:54,280 know what that would make him, but like, I guess my student, 94 00:05:54,460 --> 00:05:58,540 I'll see him dealing with his employees, and he'll do a lot of 95 00:05:58,900 --> 00:06:02,340 I just said this now repeat it back to me in your own words, 96 00:06:02,400 --> 00:06:05,340 and it's a little bit scary. It puts the person on the spot, but 97 00:06:05,340 --> 00:06:08,340 it's but you think about it, it's like, okay, that that's 98 00:06:08,340 --> 00:06:11,700 really simple. It just when you state it back in your own words, 99 00:06:11,700 --> 00:06:14,580 then that there's no wiggle room there. It's like, either you 100 00:06:14,580 --> 00:06:18,660 understand it or you don't. And then now the if you repeat it 101 00:06:18,660 --> 00:06:21,800 back to me the same thing I said, or more or less than the 102 00:06:21,800 --> 00:06:25,280 same page. So I thought that was a simple but usable technique 103 00:06:25,280 --> 00:06:29,000 that now I'm seeing everywhere I can't get away from it. Well, 104 00:06:29,060 --> 00:06:32,900 Meredith Bell: it's so it's very good, because, as you well know, 105 00:06:32,900 --> 00:06:36,860 all of us have our minds wander at times, and someone may have 106 00:06:36,860 --> 00:06:40,540 just said a key point that we totally missed. And so when we 107 00:06:40,540 --> 00:06:45,520 get somebody to say back to us what they understood, we said, 108 00:06:45,580 --> 00:06:50,080 that's very powerful, because it helps the speaker understand 109 00:06:50,080 --> 00:06:53,620 where they have not been clear. If the person says back 110 00:06:53,620 --> 00:06:56,980 something that is not what they intended, then it allows the 111 00:06:56,980 --> 00:07:04,020 speaker to clarify. No, here's what I meant. And so you you 112 00:07:04,020 --> 00:07:07,080 make sure there's been no misunderstanding before you each 113 00:07:07,080 --> 00:07:10,680 go your separate ways and make assumptions about what's been 114 00:07:10,680 --> 00:07:12,540 agreed to before, 115 00:07:12,540 --> 00:07:14,940 Robert Plank: wasting who knows how many days. And then you have 116 00:07:14,940 --> 00:07:18,300 to go and backtrack and all that time when, if only you spent a 117 00:07:18,300 --> 00:07:21,500 few seconds just making sure you could have avoided that. 118 00:07:21,560 --> 00:07:25,160 Meredith Bell: Mm, hmm, such an important point. And 119 00:07:25,160 --> 00:07:27,500 Robert Plank: a lot of what we're talking about here reminds 120 00:07:27,500 --> 00:07:32,240 me of the the idea of being 100% there and being 100% present. 121 00:07:32,360 --> 00:07:35,360 And that was a tough thing to learn, to kind of unlearn and 122 00:07:35,360 --> 00:07:40,160 relearn after high school, going into college, and then it was 123 00:07:40,220 --> 00:07:43,480 tough again to relearn after smartphones came out, because 124 00:07:43,480 --> 00:07:47,260 it's so tempting. And then, I guess, relearn again, now that 125 00:07:47,260 --> 00:07:50,140 there's so much, like, online work being done, and not 126 00:07:50,140 --> 00:07:53,560 necessarily in person, it's just so tough to, like, be here and 127 00:07:53,560 --> 00:07:56,440 being in a meeting and talk to you, and it's, it's easy. It's 128 00:07:56,440 --> 00:07:59,320 like, Oh, should I have windows open, or should I have something 129 00:07:59,320 --> 00:08:02,820 on my phone, or I'm thinking about lunch. Do you? I mean, has 130 00:08:02,820 --> 00:08:06,840 that, has that helped you, or is that, like an important pillar 131 00:08:06,840 --> 00:08:09,900 in what you do is just being 100% there and focused, 132 00:08:10,260 --> 00:08:13,440 Meredith Bell: you know, Robert, that is, I wish I could, you 133 00:08:13,440 --> 00:08:17,820 know, put 10 asterisk, 10 asterisks around what you just 134 00:08:17,820 --> 00:08:22,460 said, because being fully present with someone is one of 135 00:08:22,460 --> 00:08:26,660 the greatest gifts that you can give another human being. It's 136 00:08:26,660 --> 00:08:30,860 that critical, because what you're saying is, I value you, I 137 00:08:30,860 --> 00:08:35,120 respect you, I respect what you're saying, if someone is 138 00:08:35,120 --> 00:08:39,800 watching us get distracted, check our phone, you know, look 139 00:08:39,800 --> 00:08:45,040 around. It's communicating. I've got better things to do, and it 140 00:08:45,040 --> 00:08:49,060 does nothing to strengthen the relationship. So one of the 141 00:08:49,060 --> 00:08:52,660 first things we recommend in listening is set aside 142 00:08:52,660 --> 00:08:55,540 everything else, and it's especially hard to do if you're 143 00:08:55,540 --> 00:08:59,800 on a call where that you're not looking directly at the other 144 00:08:59,800 --> 00:09:03,480 person, right? Or it's not an in person meeting. If they can't 145 00:09:03,480 --> 00:09:06,900 see what you're doing. It's tempting to check your email or 146 00:09:06,900 --> 00:09:09,480 check social media or do something else, but I'll tell 147 00:09:09,480 --> 00:09:13,380 you the truth, when you do that, you are missing out on some 148 00:09:13,380 --> 00:09:17,580 element of what the other person is saying, because you can't the 149 00:09:17,580 --> 00:09:21,140 brain cannot focus on two separate things at the same 150 00:09:21,140 --> 00:09:24,380 time. So if you're reading an email because I've done it 151 00:09:24,380 --> 00:09:28,520 right, you're not hearing what the other person is saying. And 152 00:09:28,520 --> 00:09:31,280 so that's really critical. The other thing is actually 153 00:09:31,280 --> 00:09:37,340 physical. The more we try to look at multiple things at once, 154 00:09:37,580 --> 00:09:42,760 the more the brain becomes chaotic in terms of bouncing 155 00:09:42,760 --> 00:09:48,160 around. And so if we can really discipline ourselves to focus on 156 00:09:48,160 --> 00:09:51,820 one person what they're saying, it's really a more time 157 00:09:51,820 --> 00:09:55,600 efficient way than thinking we're fooling ourselves by doing 158 00:09:55,600 --> 00:09:59,920 multiple things at one time. It's better to focus really. 159 00:10:00,000 --> 00:10:03,540 Briefly on this, one person take care of this, and then be able 160 00:10:03,600 --> 00:10:06,540 to move on to the other thing. It's 161 00:10:06,540 --> 00:10:08,460 Robert Plank: sort of counterintuitive, isn't it? You 162 00:10:08,460 --> 00:10:12,600 think that by multitasking, that you're you're using up all the 163 00:10:12,600 --> 00:10:15,600 available time, but, but really, you're just doing two or three 164 00:10:15,600 --> 00:10:20,060 things very badly. And I think about times when even, like, I 165 00:10:20,060 --> 00:10:22,340 mean, if you're driving, you look at your phone for a second. 166 00:10:22,340 --> 00:10:25,820 You're like, what, what happened the last 200 feet? Or if you're 167 00:10:26,000 --> 00:10:28,340 watching a movie or a TV show, you check the phone, you're 168 00:10:28,340 --> 00:10:31,400 like, I don't even remember the last five minutes. And imagine 169 00:10:31,580 --> 00:10:34,880 all the little things that you need to pay attention to when 170 00:10:34,880 --> 00:10:37,640 you're dealing with face to face. So, I mean, you're 171 00:10:37,640 --> 00:10:41,080 completely right. And it's one of those, it reminds me, like 172 00:10:41,080 --> 00:10:44,080 flossing, like everyone, like knows they should do it, but 173 00:10:44,080 --> 00:10:47,080 very few people actually do it. But once you get the hang of it, 174 00:10:47,200 --> 00:10:50,140 it's not that big of a deal. You just have to put, I don't know 175 00:10:50,140 --> 00:10:52,900 if putting in the work is the right thing, but you have to 176 00:10:52,900 --> 00:10:56,380 maybe make a conscious effort at first, until that becomes part 177 00:10:56,380 --> 00:10:58,780 of your lifestyle. Well, 178 00:10:58,780 --> 00:11:02,220 Meredith Bell: this really has an impact on business directly 179 00:11:02,460 --> 00:11:07,080 when you think about speaking with a potential client, if they 180 00:11:07,080 --> 00:11:11,400 sense that you are keenly interested in them, in the way 181 00:11:11,520 --> 00:11:16,140 your body language, your tone of voice, your posture, and just 182 00:11:16,140 --> 00:11:21,500 your focus on them, and then you ask them questions, or you make 183 00:11:21,560 --> 00:11:25,820 observations based on things they've said. There's a 184 00:11:25,820 --> 00:11:30,260 strengthening of the connection that happens there that we need 185 00:11:30,260 --> 00:11:35,480 to not, you know, underestimate the power of that. And so it 186 00:11:35,480 --> 00:11:40,180 takes practice, though you can't just do it one time. It's like 187 00:11:40,300 --> 00:11:44,440 you know, trying to multitask. If your habit is check your 188 00:11:44,440 --> 00:11:48,580 phone every so many minutes. It takes a while to break that 189 00:11:48,580 --> 00:11:52,900 habit and switch to turning it off, setting it aside, putting 190 00:11:52,900 --> 00:11:57,460 it another room so that you don't look at it. Because the 191 00:11:57,460 --> 00:12:02,820 more you can practice really focusing your attention and and 192 00:12:02,820 --> 00:12:08,820 really responding appropriately to the person in front of you. I 193 00:12:08,820 --> 00:12:12,480 think the impact on your business, the impact on the 194 00:12:12,480 --> 00:12:16,980 relationships you form, because so few people do it, Robert, 195 00:12:16,980 --> 00:12:21,860 that's the key thing. You set yourself apart when you are 196 00:12:22,880 --> 00:12:26,720 really present with that other person and give them your full 197 00:12:26,720 --> 00:12:29,420 attention. Now, you know, there are times like, if you're 198 00:12:29,420 --> 00:12:33,320 listening to music in the car while you're driving, you know, 199 00:12:33,320 --> 00:12:36,980 that's different. Or you're, you know, doing laundry while you're 200 00:12:36,980 --> 00:12:40,360 listening to a podcast, that's a little different kind of 201 00:12:40,360 --> 00:12:44,140 multitasking, because one of them is sort of a mindless kind 202 00:12:44,140 --> 00:12:48,100 of thing, but when you're talking about relationships 203 00:12:48,100 --> 00:12:51,280 where you need to interact with another person, that's a whole 204 00:12:51,280 --> 00:12:56,440 different story. And it really does if you're serious about 205 00:12:56,620 --> 00:13:01,020 building strong relationships, then training yourself to really 206 00:13:01,020 --> 00:13:04,440 focus on them will get you so far. 207 00:13:05,580 --> 00:13:07,800 Robert Plank: I like that distinction you made there, that 208 00:13:07,860 --> 00:13:12,180 multitasking can be useful, right if, if you are listening 209 00:13:12,180 --> 00:13:15,240 to a podcast while doing the dishes or doing laundry, but 210 00:13:15,240 --> 00:13:18,240 then when you're dealing with people and relationships, that's 211 00:13:18,240 --> 00:13:21,800 a situation where multitasking will hurt you. So I like that, 212 00:13:21,920 --> 00:13:25,160 that it's a tool we use sometimes, just like how the 213 00:13:25,220 --> 00:13:28,580 Thinking Fast and thinking chaotically, maybe that comes 214 00:13:28,580 --> 00:13:31,460 into play, sometimes the fight or flight. Maybe there are 215 00:13:31,460 --> 00:13:34,880 situations where you do have to see 10 things for like, a couple 216 00:13:34,880 --> 00:13:37,340 of minutes, but if you live your whole life that way, you would 217 00:13:37,340 --> 00:13:40,120 just be exhausted. So that's what I'm getting from you, is 218 00:13:40,120 --> 00:13:43,420 that we have to kind of maybe be more flexible and know, if we're 219 00:13:43,420 --> 00:13:47,920 in in this situation, use these, these tools in toolbox. And so 220 00:13:47,980 --> 00:13:51,160 you mentioned when we first began speaking, that you've been 221 00:13:51,160 --> 00:13:53,500 at this for all these decades. You've got these business 222 00:13:53,500 --> 00:13:55,960 partners for 30 years, and I'm sure that you have some 223 00:13:56,080 --> 00:13:59,500 interesting stories. So I'm not sure if it relates to like a 224 00:13:59,500 --> 00:14:01,680 story from the book or something that comes to mind in a 225 00:14:01,680 --> 00:14:05,100 conversation. But do you have any like, interesting stories to 226 00:14:05,100 --> 00:14:08,220 really drive our point home about some of these skills we 227 00:14:08,220 --> 00:14:09,780 need to pick up? Yes, 228 00:14:09,780 --> 00:14:15,720 Meredith Bell: I do, actually one of them. Denny is the kind 229 00:14:15,720 --> 00:14:22,640 of person who moves fast. He thinks fast, and years ago. This 230 00:14:22,640 --> 00:14:25,820 relates to the three of us, you know, learning to work 231 00:14:25,820 --> 00:14:29,480 effectively together. And fortunately, we've all had good 232 00:14:29,480 --> 00:14:33,260 communication skills. But there was a period of time when Denny 233 00:14:33,260 --> 00:14:36,980 used to interrupt Paula and me because he was either in a hurry 234 00:14:36,980 --> 00:14:38,960 or he thought he knew what we were going to say, so he'd 235 00:14:38,960 --> 00:14:43,840 finish our sentences, and it was really annoying us, and so we 236 00:14:43,840 --> 00:14:47,200 addressed it with him, and we looked at, you know, we would 237 00:14:47,200 --> 00:14:50,980 like you to change this behavior, but we know from our 238 00:14:50,980 --> 00:14:55,060 own work that changing a behavior takes time, and it's 239 00:14:55,060 --> 00:14:59,080 most effective when you can practice it and get support for 240 00:14:59,080 --> 00:15:02,640 the new behavior. That's why groups like 12 step programs are 241 00:15:02,640 --> 00:15:07,380 so popular. So what we did to support him. This may be useful 242 00:15:07,380 --> 00:15:10,740 for your listeners, if they have someone who's engaging in 243 00:15:10,740 --> 00:15:14,880 interruption or another behavior that's annoying, to be able to 244 00:15:14,880 --> 00:15:19,920 address it. But then also, you know, add in. We want to support 245 00:15:19,920 --> 00:15:23,960 you in making this change. So we're going to come up with a 246 00:15:23,960 --> 00:15:27,200 couple of strategies that will be useful. So here's what we did 247 00:15:27,500 --> 00:15:33,980 for in person meetings. We used to just hold up our hand like a 248 00:15:33,980 --> 00:15:38,780 stop sign, right if he started to jump in, that was his cue 249 00:15:38,960 --> 00:15:42,400 that he was interrupting and to back off, and so he'd catch 250 00:15:42,400 --> 00:15:46,300 himself when he just saw that one hand signal. The other thing 251 00:15:46,300 --> 00:15:52,540 that we did was we, especially if we were having remote 252 00:15:52,600 --> 00:15:56,560 conversations and we weren't in the same room physically, 253 00:15:56,560 --> 00:16:01,260 although this could work either way, is simply to say, I wasn't 254 00:16:01,260 --> 00:16:05,520 done yet, or Please, let me finish. And the key there, of 255 00:16:05,520 --> 00:16:09,600 course, is tone of voice, because if you act annoyed and 256 00:16:09,600 --> 00:16:13,740 you say, Please, let me finish, then that's really not helpful, 257 00:16:13,740 --> 00:16:21,020 right? So doing it in a way that is a reminder, but not in a way 258 00:16:21,020 --> 00:16:24,920 this punitive, I think, is an important aspect of supporting 259 00:16:24,920 --> 00:16:29,000 someone trying to make a change. What's interesting Robert is all 260 00:16:29,000 --> 00:16:32,060 these years later, when the three of us are having a 261 00:16:32,060 --> 00:16:35,600 conversation and we now all work in different states, we have 262 00:16:35,600 --> 00:16:39,860 been remote for a number of years. We will do that with each 263 00:16:39,860 --> 00:16:43,120 other, because if we're in a brainstorming session or, you 264 00:16:43,120 --> 00:16:47,620 know, creating something new, and one of us is talking about 265 00:16:47,620 --> 00:16:51,160 something, and the other gets an idea and jumps in, we still say 266 00:16:51,160 --> 00:16:54,460 that to each other, hey, I wasn't done yet, and then the 267 00:16:54,460 --> 00:16:59,380 other one knows to back off. So I think a key aspect of what 268 00:16:59,380 --> 00:17:02,280 we've learned over the years is just being honest with each 269 00:17:02,280 --> 00:17:09,780 other and coming up with ways to efficiently, you know, interact 270 00:17:09,780 --> 00:17:14,940 and and even sometimes to say, I'm going to bring up an idea 271 00:17:14,940 --> 00:17:18,360 that you know, is different than what we've thought of before. I 272 00:17:18,360 --> 00:17:23,180 really would like you to keep an open mind as I describe this. So 273 00:17:23,180 --> 00:17:27,380 setting the stage, rather than just jumping in and trying to 274 00:17:27,380 --> 00:17:32,480 convince someone, I think framing things in a way that 275 00:17:32,480 --> 00:17:36,800 gives a person permission to not necessarily agree, but 276 00:17:36,800 --> 00:17:42,220 encourages them to consider the other person's idea. So I think 277 00:17:42,220 --> 00:17:46,480 all of those things we've each one of us, Robert, grown in our 278 00:17:46,480 --> 00:17:50,260 own personal development, in our own communication skills with 279 00:17:50,260 --> 00:17:54,700 each other. And if I can give you a second example that might 280 00:17:54,700 --> 00:17:58,900 be helpful for your listeners, this relates to me where in the 281 00:17:58,900 --> 00:18:02,760 early years that Denny and I were working together because 282 00:18:02,760 --> 00:18:07,620 he's a writer. He has a PhD in English, and I did some writing. 283 00:18:07,920 --> 00:18:11,280 But as we were creating our products, which of course, had 284 00:18:11,280 --> 00:18:15,720 written materials or creating marketing messages, and I would 285 00:18:15,720 --> 00:18:18,600 give it to him after I had drafted something and gave it to 286 00:18:18,600 --> 00:18:24,500 him to review, I used to get defensive when he would, you 287 00:18:24,500 --> 00:18:27,920 know, point out things that maybe he thought could be 288 00:18:27,920 --> 00:18:31,220 improved. I tended to take it personally. My self esteem was 289 00:18:31,220 --> 00:18:35,480 not as strong as it is today, and I wasn't as comfortable in 290 00:18:35,480 --> 00:18:42,700 our exchanges. And so I think now I we don't waste any time 291 00:18:42,700 --> 00:18:46,840 with taking anything personally. It's, you know, you really need 292 00:18:46,840 --> 00:18:54,220 to redo this, because it's not clear, being able to take, and I 293 00:18:54,220 --> 00:18:58,720 don't even say, criticism, input, feedback in an objective 294 00:18:58,780 --> 00:19:02,280 way, recognizing you both have the same goal of making 295 00:19:02,280 --> 00:19:06,960 improvements. It's not intended as a criticism of me personally. 296 00:19:07,080 --> 00:19:11,100 It's the goal of looking at how can we get to the best possible 297 00:19:11,100 --> 00:19:15,600 outcome. And I think that's an important aspect, when people 298 00:19:15,600 --> 00:19:20,180 are working together, to recognize that everybody's not 299 00:19:20,180 --> 00:19:23,000 going to agree with you, and they may have input that could 300 00:19:23,000 --> 00:19:28,700 be valuable. And if you waste time and energy telling yourself 301 00:19:28,700 --> 00:19:32,060 stories about why is this person to criticize me? Why are they 302 00:19:32,060 --> 00:19:35,420 being negative? And instead say, hey, they're giving me some 303 00:19:35,420 --> 00:19:39,860 information that's useful, and take a more neutral position, it 304 00:19:39,860 --> 00:19:43,180 makes a world of difference in how the conversation goes. And 305 00:19:44,020 --> 00:19:45,640 Robert Plank: a lot of the things you're mentioning here 306 00:19:45,640 --> 00:19:49,120 are just like setting off all kinds of light bulbs, as far as, 307 00:19:49,120 --> 00:19:54,520 like, a lot of skills that sadly took many years to the to just 308 00:19:54,520 --> 00:19:58,120 to strengthen, like, the things you're talking about the like 309 00:19:58,120 --> 00:20:01,680 letting go of the fragile self esteem. And being honest, 310 00:20:01,680 --> 00:20:05,760 because it makes things simpler. And I mean, there were times 311 00:20:05,760 --> 00:20:09,300 growing up when, like, members of my family would just be 312 00:20:09,300 --> 00:20:14,520 nasty, just because, like, it it felt good to them, or being 313 00:20:14,520 --> 00:20:17,580 sarcastic, and then your response would be to kind of go 314 00:20:17,580 --> 00:20:21,680 to war and kind of one up the sarcasm. And I mean, what does 315 00:20:21,680 --> 00:20:24,920 that really accomplish? And that's not, that's not mature, 316 00:20:25,040 --> 00:20:28,400 that's not adulting, and then that you're making me think 317 00:20:28,400 --> 00:20:32,780 about like it would lead to a lot of thinking. I could, I 318 00:20:32,780 --> 00:20:35,120 could, I could imagine what the other person was thinking or 319 00:20:35,120 --> 00:20:38,360 what the other person was going to say, and the mind reading and 320 00:20:38,480 --> 00:20:41,860 and it just, it makes me mad, just thinking about, just how, 321 00:20:41,920 --> 00:20:46,300 how confusing and complicated, just some something simple was, 322 00:20:46,360 --> 00:20:49,840 and then, versus, if you simplify that and you use 323 00:20:49,840 --> 00:20:54,700 whatever the brain power was left in that equation to then do 324 00:20:54,700 --> 00:20:57,100 the things like setting the stage, to then do the things 325 00:20:57,100 --> 00:21:00,480 like, like the framing and like being careful. And if it, if 326 00:21:00,480 --> 00:21:04,500 it's kind of a new, shaky idea, you say, well, like, just tell 327 00:21:04,500 --> 00:21:07,320 me what you think about this. Or, like, let me just get it on 328 00:21:07,320 --> 00:21:10,740 the table. Or, you know, you we can, we can change this later. 329 00:21:10,740 --> 00:21:13,860 But here's just the first draft of it. Like, little things like 330 00:21:13,860 --> 00:21:17,460 that. It's like, it's like pulling the rope in the same 331 00:21:17,460 --> 00:21:20,420 direction everyone so I'm the same team. Everyone wants the 332 00:21:20,420 --> 00:21:24,380 same thing, and knowing that there might be a little bit of a 333 00:21:24,380 --> 00:21:28,340 uncomfortable transition, dealing with the hands pulled 334 00:21:28,340 --> 00:21:31,580 up, or might be a little bit awkward, or you might get like 335 00:21:31,640 --> 00:21:35,840 embarrassed at first, but if the goal is for everyone to get 336 00:21:35,840 --> 00:21:39,320 along and get these things accomplished, I mean, it makes a 337 00:21:39,320 --> 00:21:42,640 lot sense. A lot of sense looking at it from from your 338 00:21:42,640 --> 00:21:47,080 perspective, versus the the old fashioned way of just trying to 339 00:21:47,080 --> 00:21:50,020 fight your way out of it, which you get tired really fast and 340 00:21:50,020 --> 00:21:51,820 just get frustrated and annoyed 341 00:21:52,420 --> 00:21:54,340 Meredith Bell: well. And you know, the other thing that gets 342 00:21:54,340 --> 00:21:58,000 in there is our ego and the need to be right, because sometimes 343 00:21:58,000 --> 00:22:03,360 we think I've got a safe face here and not be wrong, not be 344 00:22:03,360 --> 00:22:06,720 shown to be wrong, especially if we're in a meeting together, and 345 00:22:06,720 --> 00:22:10,620 somebody is, you know, punching down our idea. And it's like, 346 00:22:10,620 --> 00:22:13,380 well, wait a minute, I've got to really push back because I don't 347 00:22:13,380 --> 00:22:18,720 want to look bad. And again, it's that setting aside the ego 348 00:22:18,720 --> 00:22:23,060 to look at what are we trying to accomplish here and and not 349 00:22:23,060 --> 00:22:27,800 wasting time, because when we get our emotions all tied up in 350 00:22:27,800 --> 00:22:33,560 knots around what somebody said, then we can't think clearly and 351 00:22:33,560 --> 00:22:38,960 respond in a positive way to move things forward. It we tend 352 00:22:38,960 --> 00:22:42,820 to get offensive and and we're building an argument, you know, 353 00:22:42,880 --> 00:22:45,340 in our brains, and waiting for our turn to talk, or we 354 00:22:45,340 --> 00:22:49,300 interrupt them and start defending ourselves. And none of 355 00:22:49,300 --> 00:22:54,220 that sets the stage for true dialog where we can learn from 356 00:22:54,220 --> 00:22:57,820 each other and come up with the best possible solution. 357 00:22:58,960 --> 00:23:01,380 Robert Plank: I agree completely, and, and I've also 358 00:23:01,380 --> 00:23:06,180 had to let go of the idea of the perfectionism, because there was 359 00:23:06,180 --> 00:23:09,060 the feeling of, if I say something in a group or a 360 00:23:09,060 --> 00:23:13,620 meeting, it has to be the most impressive thing anyone said, 361 00:23:13,620 --> 00:23:16,920 and it has to be like no flaws and the best thing. But then if 362 00:23:16,920 --> 00:23:19,680 someone else makes a joke, or if someone else says things, I felt 363 00:23:19,680 --> 00:23:23,600 like that would move things down a few notches, and looking back 364 00:23:23,600 --> 00:23:26,960 on it, now, I think, what a what a weird way to think, right of 365 00:23:26,960 --> 00:23:31,100 trying to get a perfect score, and why not just be and why not 366 00:23:31,100 --> 00:23:34,640 just like get along and do what you're there to do? So it makes 367 00:23:34,640 --> 00:23:38,240 a lot of sense. And as we're wrapping up, winding down, is 368 00:23:38,240 --> 00:23:42,400 there any thing that you think people are really missing these 369 00:23:42,400 --> 00:23:44,380 days, because, you know, we talked about a lot of things 370 00:23:44,380 --> 00:23:47,500 that are are easy to implement, or maybe easy at first, but 371 00:23:47,500 --> 00:23:49,960 tough to stick with, a lot of things that are common sense. 372 00:23:49,960 --> 00:23:53,140 What's something maybe in this book, that if someone open to 373 00:23:53,140 --> 00:23:55,960 it, they'd say, Whoa, like that, really, that's something I 374 00:23:55,960 --> 00:23:57,040 hadn't even thought of. 375 00:23:57,580 --> 00:24:00,300 Meredith Bell: I've got two quick things. One is, look for 376 00:24:00,300 --> 00:24:03,840 more opportunities to express appreciation to other people 377 00:24:04,380 --> 00:24:08,160 about something they've done, even if it's just checking out 378 00:24:08,160 --> 00:24:11,640 in the grocery line and somebody was very efficient. Look them in 379 00:24:11,640 --> 00:24:14,460 the eye and say, I appreciate how efficient you were. You 380 00:24:14,460 --> 00:24:19,500 know, there are so few people that are going out of their way 381 00:24:19,500 --> 00:24:23,180 to make others feel valued. So if you do that, will really 382 00:24:23,180 --> 00:24:28,100 stand out. The other thing is being gracious when somebody has 383 00:24:28,100 --> 00:24:33,140 feedback for you that's not positive, so that you are able 384 00:24:33,140 --> 00:24:37,520 to actually seek that kind of feedback. You know, what did you 385 00:24:37,520 --> 00:24:40,660 think about my presentation? Or what did you think about this 386 00:24:40,660 --> 00:24:45,280 idea to ask for that and then thank people when they're honest 387 00:24:45,280 --> 00:24:49,660 with you and give it so that they are encouraged to give you 388 00:24:49,660 --> 00:24:52,720 more of it, because we all have blind spots. So if somebody is 389 00:24:52,720 --> 00:24:56,200 willing to point out to me where I said or did something that 390 00:24:56,200 --> 00:24:59,680 didn't sit well with them, I want to know about it. So to 391 00:24:59,680 --> 00:25:03,120 thank. Take them after they give it and then just ask if it's 392 00:25:03,120 --> 00:25:05,700 something you did that was really offensive to them. Just 393 00:25:05,700 --> 00:25:09,600 say, you know, what can I do to make things right? And apologize 394 00:25:09,780 --> 00:25:12,300 too often, we hold off apologizing because we think 395 00:25:12,300 --> 00:25:16,620 it's going to make us look weak, when, in fact, if we apologize, 396 00:25:16,620 --> 00:25:20,660 people respect us more. So I think being willing to accept 397 00:25:20,660 --> 00:25:25,940 feedback graciously and look for how can I improve next time so I 398 00:25:25,940 --> 00:25:29,780 don't make the same mistake, I think is just huge in terms of 399 00:25:29,780 --> 00:25:31,040 relationship building. 400 00:25:31,760 --> 00:25:35,180 Robert Plank: I'll remember that phrase, what can I do to make 401 00:25:35,180 --> 00:25:38,660 this better next time? And and even the way that you position 402 00:25:38,660 --> 00:25:41,740 it there, it's they're doing, I mean, they're doing you a favor. 403 00:25:41,740 --> 00:25:46,540 If they point out something that you are saying or doing that 404 00:25:46,540 --> 00:25:49,600 you're going to continue doing it, you don't even have an idea 405 00:25:49,600 --> 00:25:53,080 that you're doing it, then why not nip that in the bud, and why 406 00:25:53,080 --> 00:25:56,860 not have them alert that you that way you can, maybe not 407 00:25:56,860 --> 00:25:59,500 overnight, but slowly change your behavior, or at least be 408 00:25:59,500 --> 00:26:02,700 aware of when you do the interrupting you need that or 409 00:26:02,700 --> 00:26:05,280 something, something along those lines, they're doing you a 410 00:26:05,280 --> 00:26:08,640 favor, because if they're noticing it, then maybe not 411 00:26:08,640 --> 00:26:11,220 everyone notices it, but other people will be noticing it in 412 00:26:11,220 --> 00:26:17,760 the future. That's really good, right? Okay, so where can people 413 00:26:18,000 --> 00:26:20,660 find this book, and where can people connect with you and find 414 00:26:20,660 --> 00:26:23,540 out all the cool things you've been up to lately. Well, the 415 00:26:23,540 --> 00:26:23,780 book 416 00:26:23,780 --> 00:26:27,200 Meredith Bell: connect with your team is available on Amazon. We 417 00:26:27,200 --> 00:26:31,940 also have a free ebook on the topic of listening. It's called 418 00:26:31,940 --> 00:26:35,720 listen like a pro. That's on our website. People can download it 419 00:26:35,720 --> 00:26:38,960 for free. It's really an excerpt of one of the chapters in the 420 00:26:38,960 --> 00:26:46,660 book on listening, and that's at grow strong leaders.com/free so 421 00:26:46,660 --> 00:26:49,780 they can go there and download that and sort of get a taste of 422 00:26:49,780 --> 00:26:52,720 the book, and then purchase the book. If they want to. They can 423 00:26:52,720 --> 00:26:57,280 connect with me on LinkedIn, Facebook, Twitter, I'm on those 424 00:26:57,880 --> 00:26:59,620 platforms. Meredith Bell 425 00:27:00,700 --> 00:27:04,560 Robert Plank: and this listening free guide you have, there 426 00:27:04,560 --> 00:27:06,840 better be an audio version, right? Not just written. 427 00:27:09,300 --> 00:27:11,580 Meredith Bell: That's a great idea, right now, it's just in 428 00:27:11,580 --> 00:27:12,780 the form of an ebook, 429 00:27:13,320 --> 00:27:15,540 Robert Plank: okay, well, then we can read it and hear the 430 00:27:15,540 --> 00:27:20,360 voice in our head that will That's right, great stuff. So 431 00:27:20,360 --> 00:27:24,320 that is, grow strong leaders.com, forward slash free. 432 00:27:24,440 --> 00:27:27,080 And then how do they jump directly to the book? Is there a 433 00:27:27,080 --> 00:27:28,160 domain name for that? There's 434 00:27:28,220 --> 00:27:31,040 Meredith Bell: a link on that page to go to the book on 435 00:27:31,040 --> 00:27:34,400 Amazon. Or they can just go directly to Amazon and search on 436 00:27:34,400 --> 00:27:38,060 connect with your team, and they'll see it by me and Dennis 437 00:27:38,060 --> 00:27:39,860 Coates, super 438 00:27:39,860 --> 00:27:42,160 Robert Plank: great if you out there, if you want to connect 439 00:27:42,160 --> 00:27:44,860 with your team, whatever your team entails, like Meredith 440 00:27:44,860 --> 00:27:47,560 said, it could even help your relationships with some of the 441 00:27:47,560 --> 00:27:49,960 things that we've even mentioned in this call, as far as 442 00:27:50,080 --> 00:27:54,760 listening and being aware and being appreciative and all these 443 00:27:54,760 --> 00:27:59,140 little things that, when you're using them, a lot of people 444 00:27:59,140 --> 00:28:01,980 won't notice, but they will Notice the results. And if these 445 00:28:01,980 --> 00:28:05,220 things are lacking, then your life will be unnecessarily 446 00:28:05,220 --> 00:28:08,100 complicated, and probably your business too. So why make it 447 00:28:08,100 --> 00:28:11,880 hard on yourself? It's the current, modern age where we can 448 00:28:11,880 --> 00:28:15,000 communicate across different states and we can be on video 449 00:28:15,000 --> 00:28:19,380 chat. It seems ridiculous to not be tapped into the latest and 450 00:28:19,380 --> 00:28:22,220 greatest techniques. So get this. Connect with your team. 451 00:28:22,220 --> 00:28:26,300 Book grow strong leaders.com forward Slash Free. Connect with 452 00:28:26,300 --> 00:28:29,540 Meredith bell on LinkedIn, Facebook and Twitter, and we 453 00:28:29,540 --> 00:28:32,780 will see you there. So Meredith, any final parting words before 454 00:28:32,780 --> 00:28:33,500 we wrap up here? 455 00:28:34,220 --> 00:28:38,120 Meredith Bell: No Robert, thank you. This was just really great. 456 00:28:38,120 --> 00:28:42,820 And, oh, I guess there is one, and that is simply to look at 457 00:28:43,120 --> 00:28:47,380 your relationships with other people and ask yourself, is it 458 00:28:47,920 --> 00:28:53,020 working the way I hoped it would, and if it's not, to ask 459 00:28:53,080 --> 00:28:57,460 each person individually, what could I do to help make our 460 00:28:57,460 --> 00:29:01,860 relationship even better for the people that matter to you most? 461 00:29:01,860 --> 00:29:03,300 That's a powerful question. 462 00:29:06,660 --> 00:29:08,700 Robert Plank: Thank you for listening to marketer of the 463 00:29:08,700 --> 00:29:12,600 day. Subscribe and listen to other shows at marketer of the 464 00:29:12,600 --> 00:29:15,180 day.com/episodes, you.