1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:02,640 Robert Plank: Up. Hey everyone, and welcome back to the marketer 2 00:00:02,640 --> 00:00:06,480 of the day podcast. We are here with return guest Charlene 3 00:00:06,540 --> 00:00:09,960 Burke, and she is at searchby burke.com she is@growplr.com 4 00:00:12,360 --> 00:00:15,180 we're going to be getting deep today. We're going to be talking 5 00:00:15,180 --> 00:00:18,660 about how to be the person you know that you need to be and 6 00:00:18,660 --> 00:00:21,920 should be, how to have the confidence and the drive and the 7 00:00:21,920 --> 00:00:25,640 productivity to do what it is that you need to do, including 8 00:00:25,640 --> 00:00:29,120 things like talking to strangers, including things like 9 00:00:29,120 --> 00:00:32,240 empathizing and getting in the minds of clients and prospects. 10 00:00:32,240 --> 00:00:34,820 So Charlene, glad to catch up. I'm glad to be talking to you 11 00:00:34,820 --> 00:00:35,060 again. 12 00:00:35,780 --> 00:00:37,940 Charlene Burke: Oh my gosh, Robert, it is so awesome to see 13 00:00:37,940 --> 00:00:41,680 you again. It is I'm so glad to be here. Thank you. 14 00:00:42,520 --> 00:00:46,120 Robert Plank: You're very welcome. And so as far as you 15 00:00:46,180 --> 00:00:50,500 and your journey and your growth and where you might have been 16 00:00:50,500 --> 00:00:54,400 stuck the last 12 to 24 months, what have you went up to? What 17 00:00:54,400 --> 00:00:55,900 has you excited these days? 18 00:00:57,640 --> 00:01:00,780 Charlene Burke: I thought you say 12 to 24 years? Oh my gosh. 19 00:01:01,680 --> 00:01:05,220 What I've been up to, honestly is I took my last course 20 00:01:05,220 --> 00:01:10,860 correction in my business. I'd gotten detoured once again with 21 00:01:10,920 --> 00:01:14,700 I really don't want to be doing what I'm doing right? So about 22 00:01:14,940 --> 00:01:21,260 18 to 24 months ago, as I had been experimenting with writing. 23 00:01:21,260 --> 00:01:25,940 I had been experimenting with creating products, experimenting 24 00:01:25,940 --> 00:01:29,960 with collaborating with people on product creation. I was doing 25 00:01:30,020 --> 00:01:33,680 online marketing. I was doing websites. I was doing, I mean, I 26 00:01:33,680 --> 00:01:36,620 was up for doing anything All right, because I just flat 27 00:01:36,620 --> 00:01:39,140 couldn't figure out exactly what it was I was supposed to be 28 00:01:39,140 --> 00:01:46,600 doing. And then I'd hit an experiment of, you know, what I 29 00:01:46,600 --> 00:01:49,900 really like to do, copywriting. It's something I've been doing 30 00:01:49,960 --> 00:01:54,280 since I was in my 20s. Actually, I ran a direct marketing firm 31 00:01:54,280 --> 00:01:58,780 when I was in my 20s. Did quite well with the direct mail pieces 32 00:01:58,780 --> 00:02:03,660 we I wrote and sent out as part of the team. And I thought, you 33 00:02:03,660 --> 00:02:06,780 know, this is something I've really always enjoyed doing, and 34 00:02:06,780 --> 00:02:12,660 it's because with copywriting versus just regular contact 35 00:02:12,660 --> 00:02:16,080 rating, you know, write a story kind of thing, or even just 36 00:02:16,200 --> 00:02:21,080 write an informational piece, it requires that you know your 37 00:02:21,080 --> 00:02:25,580 market. You have to know your audience inside and out, because 38 00:02:25,580 --> 00:02:28,940 the whole purpose of copywriting is to get them to do something. 39 00:02:30,740 --> 00:02:34,040 And I'd proven I could do that with my online marketing stuff. 40 00:02:34,040 --> 00:02:37,160 So I thought, you know, what the heck? Let's give this a try. And 41 00:02:37,160 --> 00:02:40,100 so I decided, well, if we're going to experiment, let's 42 00:02:40,100 --> 00:02:44,500 really do an experiment. Let's see what happens if I offer a 43 00:02:44,500 --> 00:02:49,900 service to write emails, specific type of emails, the 44 00:02:49,900 --> 00:02:54,220 welcome series that follows a download. Let's see if anybody 45 00:02:54,220 --> 00:02:58,000 will go for just that. I'm going to tell you, Robert, after 46 00:02:58,000 --> 00:03:03,540 hundreds of clients now and hundreds and hundreds of emails 47 00:03:03,540 --> 00:03:07,980 that I've written, not only just the welcome, but all the others 48 00:03:07,980 --> 00:03:12,060 people have been asking for, has proven that this is where I need 49 00:03:12,060 --> 00:03:19,320 to be. I need to be writing copy for emails, for people to make 50 00:03:19,320 --> 00:03:23,420 money, to communicate with their audience, to nurture their 51 00:03:23,420 --> 00:03:27,320 audience, to help their audience, to to grow their own 52 00:03:27,320 --> 00:03:31,340 business. So that's what I'm doing right now, and I have been 53 00:03:31,520 --> 00:03:34,460 successfully, I say successfully, been able to be 54 00:03:34,460 --> 00:03:37,820 financially independent and supporting my husband and the 55 00:03:37,820 --> 00:03:41,440 household and everything these past 18 months or so. And all I 56 00:03:41,440 --> 00:03:43,900 do is I write emails, and absolutely love it, 57 00:03:44,980 --> 00:03:48,100 Robert Plank: fantastic. And that's always the the problem 58 00:03:48,100 --> 00:03:51,400 with with copywriters, right? Is differentiating, differentiating 59 00:03:51,400 --> 00:03:54,340 yourself, and that there's so many people out there, anyone is 60 00:03:54,340 --> 00:03:58,600 willing to make a landing page, make a funnel, make a web page 61 00:03:58,660 --> 00:04:02,160 so and it seems like the the email sequence. That's where I 62 00:04:02,160 --> 00:04:05,280 make most of my money, too, and that's what I like to have in 63 00:04:05,280 --> 00:04:08,940 place. But it seems like that's really overlooked, that a lot of 64 00:04:08,940 --> 00:04:13,920 the attention falls on the sales letter, and let me spend five 65 00:04:13,920 --> 00:04:16,860 weeks, every single day, making sure that there's a big 66 00:04:16,860 --> 00:04:19,980 headline. There's all these things in place, but then it's 67 00:04:19,980 --> 00:04:22,940 like, Yeah, but what if? What if you you get traffic and it needs 68 00:04:22,940 --> 00:04:25,580 to be warmed up, or what if they don't buy right away, so they 69 00:04:25,580 --> 00:04:29,240 need this, this kind of nurturing sequence, and I 70 00:04:29,240 --> 00:04:33,860 imagine that for you, it's a lot more fun, because instead of 71 00:04:33,860 --> 00:04:38,360 having have a big, long journey and have a big, long web page, 72 00:04:38,360 --> 00:04:41,620 you can have little micro stories. You can have different 73 00:04:41,620 --> 00:04:45,700 angles. You can be be surprising. It seems like it's 74 00:04:45,760 --> 00:04:48,760 it ticks all the boxes, right? It's something new and fresh 75 00:04:48,760 --> 00:04:52,720 that seemed like you needed. It differentiates you. It feels a 76 00:04:52,720 --> 00:04:55,120 need in the marketplace. But also it seems like it, it 77 00:04:55,120 --> 00:04:57,940 scratches this creative itch that you're alluding to a little 78 00:04:57,940 --> 00:04:59,080 bit. Oh, you 79 00:04:59,080 --> 00:05:01,440 Charlene Burke: nailed it. You. Nailed it. See, I've done the 80 00:05:01,440 --> 00:05:05,520 long copywriting stuff, I've done the full funnel build outs. 81 00:05:05,520 --> 00:05:09,360 I've done the strategizing. I've done, let's find the gaps. I've 82 00:05:09,360 --> 00:05:12,840 done the analysis. I've been deep in data, mainly on an 83 00:05:12,840 --> 00:05:16,920 online marketing agency, for seven years, and had recurring 84 00:05:16,920 --> 00:05:21,020 clients that you know, let's not only get you up and search, but 85 00:05:21,080 --> 00:05:24,200 really the ultimate goal is, let's get you making money. 86 00:05:24,200 --> 00:05:26,480 Let's get people to click through. And how are we going to 87 00:05:26,480 --> 00:05:29,660 do that? And I've got a background in consumer 88 00:05:29,660 --> 00:05:35,120 psychology that comes into play as well, because just because 89 00:05:35,120 --> 00:05:37,880 you think you tell them to buy doesn't mean they're going to 90 00:05:37,940 --> 00:05:42,940 right. So I fully understand that you have to have the right 91 00:05:42,940 --> 00:05:46,420 mark, right message, in front of the right market at the right 92 00:05:46,420 --> 00:05:51,880 time. And with email, you can do that. You see with with email, 93 00:05:51,940 --> 00:05:56,620 you can have the, oh, you have a list, but they haven't been 94 00:05:56,620 --> 00:06:00,160 engaging with you at all. Let me have a look at your analytics. 95 00:06:00,400 --> 00:06:03,660 Are they even opening? Why aren't they opening? Who have 96 00:06:03,660 --> 00:06:07,080 you? Where did you get this list? What did they expect when 97 00:06:07,080 --> 00:06:10,200 you first came on board? What did they What did you tell them 98 00:06:10,200 --> 00:06:13,680 you were going to send them? Right? So that's my starting 99 00:06:13,680 --> 00:06:17,220 point, and I get an understanding of of who my 100 00:06:17,220 --> 00:06:20,360 customer is, which is the business owner or the coach, the 101 00:06:20,360 --> 00:06:24,080 consultant, the E commerce owner, the, I mean, I've worked 102 00:06:24,080 --> 00:06:28,580 with enterprise clients down to the affiliate marketer who just 103 00:06:28,580 --> 00:06:32,480 wants to differentiate themselves from the hundreds of 104 00:06:32,480 --> 00:06:37,880 others promoting a product. Why did you pick that market? Why 105 00:06:37,880 --> 00:06:41,360 did you decide that's the one you want? You know, and 106 00:06:41,360 --> 00:06:43,780 sometimes it's because that's where all the money is, and 107 00:06:43,780 --> 00:06:47,020 that's fine. But now you got to tell me, who does that market? 108 00:06:47,620 --> 00:06:52,060 Most of them don't know. So I do my own research, and I talked to 109 00:06:52,060 --> 00:06:55,720 the to the business owner, and I tell them that, you know what? 110 00:06:55,720 --> 00:06:58,780 We can get these people reengaged. We can introduce them 111 00:06:58,780 --> 00:07:03,960 to you, tell your story a little bit, and I can do that for you, 112 00:07:04,320 --> 00:07:08,400 but I'm going to need you to talk to me. So tell me a little 113 00:07:08,400 --> 00:07:13,200 bit about who you are, and I'll ask silly questions. Always get 114 00:07:13,200 --> 00:07:15,660 some laughing when I ask, What's your favorite dinner, what's 115 00:07:15,660 --> 00:07:19,140 your favorite movie, what's your favorite music, you know, what 116 00:07:19,140 --> 00:07:22,520 do you have a hobby? What's your hobby? And what that does for me 117 00:07:22,520 --> 00:07:27,920 is that fills them out as a person, right? No longer are 118 00:07:27,920 --> 00:07:32,300 they just the E commerce owner, no longer are they a niche 119 00:07:32,360 --> 00:07:39,260 website owner and in the prepper niche? Right? No, it's they are 120 00:07:39,440 --> 00:07:47,860 John or Sally or Christine, who is a full person who has so much 121 00:07:47,860 --> 00:07:50,680 more to offer. And the reason they're doing this is because 122 00:07:50,680 --> 00:07:52,660 they're bringing all of that they don't see it, but that's 123 00:07:52,660 --> 00:07:56,020 what they bring to their business. So then I go into 124 00:07:56,020 --> 00:08:00,900 their customer base, if they have customers, and if they 125 00:08:00,900 --> 00:08:04,800 don't, I go into why the market they have, and the problem that 126 00:08:04,800 --> 00:08:07,800 they're trying to solve, and I put myself in the place of the 127 00:08:07,800 --> 00:08:12,720 person that has the problem. And you know, the you might think 128 00:08:12,720 --> 00:08:16,200 that the problem is that they're not making money online as an 129 00:08:16,200 --> 00:08:21,860 affiliate marketer. That's one of the problems. But the other 130 00:08:21,860 --> 00:08:26,060 problem is that they're also suffering from anxiety, because 131 00:08:26,060 --> 00:08:28,640 they've never done this before. They knew, yes, if they're new, 132 00:08:28,640 --> 00:08:32,300 then they are anxious, and that anxiety is showing through in 133 00:08:32,360 --> 00:08:35,120 everything they do. They're hesitating about taking any 134 00:08:35,120 --> 00:08:40,660 steps. They're hesitating about pushing the button on a Facebook 135 00:08:40,660 --> 00:08:43,540 ad that's going to cost them $500 because to them, they've 136 00:08:43,540 --> 00:08:47,320 never spent $500 when you understand that, then you can 137 00:08:47,320 --> 00:08:51,760 talk to them like the person who's who's experiencing this 138 00:08:51,760 --> 00:08:56,980 type of anxiety, and offer reassurance and proof and take 139 00:08:56,980 --> 00:08:59,920 their hand and guide them to where you want them to go, as 140 00:09:00,400 --> 00:09:04,980 long as you understand that part, and that applies to those 141 00:09:05,040 --> 00:09:10,020 who are selling supplements right to to the elderly who are 142 00:09:10,020 --> 00:09:14,640 suffering from arthritis. Why? Why? Why is what's? What's a day 143 00:09:14,640 --> 00:09:19,920 in the life of somebody who has arthritis? It begins with being 144 00:09:19,920 --> 00:09:23,480 painful just getting out of bed, the minute the foot hits the 145 00:09:23,480 --> 00:09:31,160 floor, the knee screams with fire pain. So you take that, and 146 00:09:31,160 --> 00:09:34,340 that's what I do. So now I'm in the place of my customer, and 147 00:09:34,340 --> 00:09:37,940 I'm in the place of the the audience, and I'm like, you know 148 00:09:37,940 --> 00:09:40,280 what's what's really your problem? That's who I'm talking 149 00:09:40,280 --> 00:09:44,920 to. So when I write the email, I'm writing it to the person who 150 00:09:44,920 --> 00:09:47,920 has the problem, as if it's a one on one conversation. It's 151 00:09:47,920 --> 00:09:49,540 really a lot of fun. Actually, 152 00:09:51,220 --> 00:09:53,860 Robert Plank: I can tell that you have fun doing it and even 153 00:09:53,980 --> 00:09:57,280 even hearing your your thought process. It seems like it, it 154 00:09:57,280 --> 00:10:00,180 switches a lot from the art and the science you meant. And 155 00:10:00,180 --> 00:10:04,500 things like, Well, why are they in this niche, and what's the 156 00:10:04,500 --> 00:10:08,340 data, and what are the open rates, and where the customers 157 00:10:08,340 --> 00:10:11,340 were at the sales? But there's also, what's your favorite food, 158 00:10:11,340 --> 00:10:15,420 and there's also the the empathizing with this prospect. 159 00:10:15,420 --> 00:10:18,720 And there's even like, the just like, get getting outside the 160 00:10:18,720 --> 00:10:22,940 box and re examining it from another angle, where this whole 161 00:10:22,940 --> 00:10:29,060 time, your your your email copywriting client here, they 162 00:10:29,060 --> 00:10:32,960 might have been sending emails. It may be not very often, but 163 00:10:32,960 --> 00:10:36,020 they might have been basically like, like, running really fast 164 00:10:36,020 --> 00:10:39,140 in the wrong direction, right? They might have been trying this 165 00:10:39,140 --> 00:10:42,820 angle without any strategy, or they might have been just trying 166 00:10:42,820 --> 00:10:47,320 to dump information and and sometimes we're so close to 167 00:10:47,320 --> 00:10:50,080 things, or sometimes we've been going through the day to day so 168 00:10:50,080 --> 00:10:54,700 much that we just, we don't get into kind of the bigger universe 169 00:10:54,700 --> 00:10:57,100 that you're mentioning here. Yeah, 170 00:10:57,160 --> 00:10:59,560 Charlene Burke: that's very true. It's one reason why I 171 00:10:59,560 --> 00:11:04,080 don't write for myself very well, because I'm too close and 172 00:11:04,860 --> 00:11:08,760 and I understand that from my clients perspective, which is, 173 00:11:08,760 --> 00:11:11,040 Listen, I know this is going to fix their problem. Here the 174 00:11:11,040 --> 00:11:14,580 bullet points of the problem they have, and this is how it 175 00:11:14,580 --> 00:11:21,380 fixes them. But there's more to it than than that. Otherwise 176 00:11:21,380 --> 00:11:24,440 people would be clicking at Buy button all over the place. 177 00:11:24,440 --> 00:11:28,700 Wouldn't right? So, I mean, I otherwise, I put out bullet 178 00:11:28,700 --> 00:11:32,180 points of, hey, you've got these issues. This is what this 179 00:11:32,180 --> 00:11:36,140 product solves. Here's the buy button. Let's go. That's not 180 00:11:36,140 --> 00:11:41,060 what makes people buy. What makes people buy is when you are 181 00:11:41,060 --> 00:11:46,600 getting front of them and show them that you fully understand 182 00:11:46,780 --> 00:11:50,140 where they are right now, not where you want them to be, not 183 00:11:50,140 --> 00:11:53,440 where they used to be, not where they think they ought to be, but 184 00:11:53,440 --> 00:11:57,880 where they are right now, whatever that problem is right 185 00:11:57,880 --> 00:12:02,940 now, When they get that right? When somebody reads that, holy 186 00:12:03,540 --> 00:12:07,380 cow. Yes, I know. I just got out of bed this morning and, holy 187 00:12:07,380 --> 00:12:11,940 wow, my knee and hip just went crazy, and I had to shuffle like 188 00:12:11,940 --> 00:12:15,840 a little old lady to just to get to the other side of the bed 189 00:12:15,840 --> 00:12:20,720 right, or to get to the foot of the bed, or to to get from there 190 00:12:20,720 --> 00:12:23,780 to the door so I could get a glass of water, takes me 10 191 00:12:23,780 --> 00:12:27,080 minutes when it used to take me six, you know, something like 192 00:12:27,080 --> 00:12:30,260 that. So now you're in the head of that person that says that's 193 00:12:30,260 --> 00:12:32,960 the reality. So if they're feeling like that in the 194 00:12:32,960 --> 00:12:35,540 morning, it's not that much better by the time they're 195 00:12:35,540 --> 00:12:36,440 reading that email. 196 00:12:37,760 --> 00:12:40,840 Robert Plank: So has it ever been difficult to kind of crack 197 00:12:40,840 --> 00:12:43,960 this code, like it's, it seems like with something like, like 198 00:12:43,960 --> 00:12:46,960 diabetes, you start with the pain, and you you figure out 199 00:12:46,960 --> 00:12:49,600 stories, and you kind of maybe look what other people are 200 00:12:49,600 --> 00:12:52,660 doing. But I imagine that maybe, maybe sometimes it's hard to 201 00:12:52,660 --> 00:12:56,980 crack that nut, right. Sometimes it's like, well, am I being Am I 202 00:12:56,980 --> 00:13:00,600 taking too long to get to the point, or am I saying what I 203 00:13:00,600 --> 00:13:03,180 need to say in this limited amount of space. I mean, has it 204 00:13:03,180 --> 00:13:07,080 ever been difficult? Have you ever been really stumped trying 205 00:13:07,080 --> 00:13:09,480 to make the magic happen? Yeah, 206 00:13:09,540 --> 00:13:13,380 Charlene Burke: the where I get stymied is when there isn't a 207 00:13:13,380 --> 00:13:18,600 lot of activity online about that problem. So there and one 208 00:13:18,600 --> 00:13:23,960 of them, I had to rely solely on my customers research. It's a 209 00:13:23,960 --> 00:13:27,320 it's an issue Barrett's esophagus, I think is one of the 210 00:13:27,380 --> 00:13:30,980 that's one that's coming to mind now. It's a very specific issue 211 00:13:30,980 --> 00:13:36,380 that's related to acid reflux and GERD, but it's not either 212 00:13:36,380 --> 00:13:41,500 one of those and and when I started looking online to see if 213 00:13:42,100 --> 00:13:44,620 what I try to find is the conversation people are having 214 00:13:44,620 --> 00:13:50,020 about the problem. And so I was, you know, and I will look in a 215 00:13:50,020 --> 00:13:52,660 variety of places, as most writers do, right? I go to 216 00:13:52,660 --> 00:13:57,460 Amazon reviews, I go to forums, I go to offline, off social 217 00:13:57,460 --> 00:14:02,640 media forums, I go to, if I have time, I'll even sign up for 218 00:14:02,640 --> 00:14:07,500 email discussion forums and lists, what, how are they 219 00:14:07,500 --> 00:14:11,220 freezing, what the problem is, right? And I couldn't find much 220 00:14:11,460 --> 00:14:16,620 on that one in particular, because I had to rely on my 221 00:14:16,620 --> 00:14:22,160 customers research, and it was difficult because they didn't, 222 00:14:22,220 --> 00:14:27,800 they didn't have the experience. And I had a very tight timeline 223 00:14:27,860 --> 00:14:30,860 to work with them. I could do it, but it was, it was quite a 224 00:14:30,860 --> 00:14:34,760 challenge. Customer came back, by the way, because they got 225 00:14:35,240 --> 00:14:37,940 they were successful. Anything else they sent, they were happy 226 00:14:37,940 --> 00:14:41,860 with, so they wanted some more. But you know, when there's a 227 00:14:41,860 --> 00:14:47,080 challenge, when there's an obstacle, when there's a a what 228 00:14:47,080 --> 00:14:51,940 looks like a brick wall, right? Then what I have to do, and what 229 00:14:51,940 --> 00:14:55,960 I do is I look for what tools going to get me either break 230 00:14:55,960 --> 00:15:00,840 through the wall, get around it, climb over it, or dig under. It, 231 00:15:00,840 --> 00:15:05,700 or, if necessary, blow the sucker up and walk, walk as if 232 00:15:05,700 --> 00:15:09,720 it never had happened. Right? What tools going to get me to 233 00:15:09,720 --> 00:15:14,520 the other side? The fastest way? And sometimes the way I go may 234 00:15:14,520 --> 00:15:19,680 not look like the fastest way. You may have had a different, 235 00:15:19,680 --> 00:15:23,180 different tool that you would use, but we hadn't met yet, so I 236 00:15:23,180 --> 00:15:27,440 wasn't able to reach out to you so you could tell me about it. I 237 00:15:27,440 --> 00:15:31,640 have what I have to work with and and I, that's what I do. So, 238 00:15:32,720 --> 00:15:35,180 you know, it's part of it is problem solving, part of its 239 00:15:35,180 --> 00:15:39,020 troubleshooting. Part of it is understanding that the 240 00:15:39,020 --> 00:15:43,180 challenge, it's, that's all it is. It's just a challenge, and 241 00:15:43,180 --> 00:15:47,200 then I'm up for it. And, you know, reach out to people I 242 00:15:47,200 --> 00:15:51,760 know, see if they've had the issue. Where else can I find 243 00:15:51,760 --> 00:15:54,760 this? I'm a researcher at heart. That's where my business 244 00:15:54,760 --> 00:15:59,560 started. So I know a lot of nooks and crannies, those hidden 245 00:15:59,560 --> 00:16:04,320 websites people don't know about to do research in I have a large 246 00:16:04,380 --> 00:16:08,760 network of people that I can reach out to. So yeah, 247 00:16:09,840 --> 00:16:12,240 Robert Plank: and that's good advice in general, just with 248 00:16:12,240 --> 00:16:15,420 problem solving, as far as sometimes you just need a 249 00:16:15,420 --> 00:16:17,520 different tool, different approach. And there's been so 250 00:16:17,520 --> 00:16:21,860 many times when I was stuck with whether it's like writing, 251 00:16:21,860 --> 00:16:26,240 programming, website, I mean, video, podcast, whatever. 252 00:16:26,300 --> 00:16:29,960 There's been so many times when I just just trying something 253 00:16:29,960 --> 00:16:33,740 different, would at least make some progress, right? Just like 254 00:16:33,860 --> 00:16:36,380 sitting and thinking and like blocking off time, or, like you 255 00:16:36,380 --> 00:16:40,360 said, like running a by someone, or just like free writing, like 256 00:16:40,480 --> 00:16:43,600 so many times it's it's what I'm hearing from you is that we're 257 00:16:43,600 --> 00:16:45,940 not it's not always that we're stuck. It's just that we need 258 00:16:45,940 --> 00:16:49,180 to, like, try to think outside the box, or use a different tool 259 00:16:49,180 --> 00:16:52,780 or something like that, and and so this kind of relates to just 260 00:16:52,780 --> 00:16:55,540 before we started, uh, recording and talking here, we were 261 00:16:55,540 --> 00:16:59,380 talking somewhat about confidence and things like 262 00:16:59,380 --> 00:17:04,920 public speaking and maybe, like acting your way into and into 263 00:17:04,920 --> 00:17:07,980 the person that you want to be or to get to a goal. So can you 264 00:17:07,980 --> 00:17:11,220 unpack that a little bit? Can you tell us about your own 265 00:17:11,340 --> 00:17:16,500 struggles with confidence, or are making a point and getting 266 00:17:16,500 --> 00:17:17,280 through all that? 267 00:17:19,440 --> 00:17:25,040 Charlene Burke: Well, I can try. So one thing that was constant 268 00:17:25,040 --> 00:17:31,760 throughout my entire life was social anxiety, and quite 269 00:17:31,760 --> 00:17:39,260 honestly, I simply did not know how to talk to people if I knew 270 00:17:39,260 --> 00:17:45,700 you and we had a relationship, family was reasonably easy. But 271 00:17:45,700 --> 00:17:48,640 even then, I didn't have a better writer than I am a 272 00:17:48,640 --> 00:17:52,060 talker. I always fell on the writing. I'll write you a note. 273 00:17:52,540 --> 00:17:59,020 I'll write you a letter, right? So for me to suddenly, suddenly 274 00:17:59,080 --> 00:18:05,340 say I decided I needed to start my business. I the biggest 275 00:18:05,340 --> 00:18:07,740 summer for me was, holy cow, I'm gonna have to get in front of 276 00:18:07,740 --> 00:18:10,020 people and sell them my business. I'm gonna have to sell 277 00:18:10,020 --> 00:18:15,720 to them. How am I gonna do that? Right? Well, it was more 278 00:18:15,720 --> 00:18:21,740 important to me than I figure out how to do that, than it was 279 00:18:21,740 --> 00:18:24,560 for me to just walk away from the idea of the business and go 280 00:18:24,560 --> 00:18:27,440 back to working for somebody else, working for other people, 281 00:18:27,440 --> 00:18:30,980 had resulted in me this level of anxiety that I had felt for most 282 00:18:30,980 --> 00:18:36,560 of my life had been compounded by outside circumstances, the 283 00:18:36,680 --> 00:18:40,160 normal life things that happened to people, the not so normal 284 00:18:40,160 --> 00:18:43,060 Things That Happen to married couples. I mean, I've been 285 00:18:43,060 --> 00:18:47,320 through I've been through a lot of physical things, illnesses, 286 00:18:47,320 --> 00:18:54,040 my husband and I have been through a lot of thing quite the 287 00:18:54,880 --> 00:18:57,640 best way I know to put it is my husband and I have been through 288 00:18:58,060 --> 00:19:01,500 a nine of the 10 things that that are the most common reasons 289 00:19:01,500 --> 00:19:07,560 why people divorce. It's It's outside influences that and 290 00:19:07,560 --> 00:19:12,300 circumstances that we've had to respond to and all of that. An 291 00:19:12,300 --> 00:19:18,540 example of that that adds to this anxiety issues that I used 292 00:19:18,540 --> 00:19:25,040 to have is when we married. We married in 1990 and our first 293 00:19:25,040 --> 00:19:29,960 seven anniversaries were all spent at a funeral or at a wake. 294 00:19:31,460 --> 00:19:37,640 That is normal for us. Finally, I got smart on the seventh one 295 00:19:37,640 --> 00:19:40,160 and said, You know what? We're going to change our anniversary 296 00:19:40,160 --> 00:19:45,580 date and we're going to celebrate in August. And 297 00:19:45,580 --> 00:19:49,720 amazingly enough, everybody stopped dying, and we laughed 298 00:19:49,720 --> 00:19:53,620 about it today. But you know, suddenly nobody died on the on 299 00:19:53,620 --> 00:19:56,500 the real anniversary date. So only a couple years ago did we 300 00:19:56,500 --> 00:20:00,240 start decide to start celebrating again, having. Said 301 00:20:00,240 --> 00:20:03,660 all that, I decided that I was tired. I couldn't handle working 302 00:20:03,660 --> 00:20:10,560 for other people anymore. I been extremely ill, and it was 303 00:20:10,560 --> 00:20:14,100 costing us money. And physically, I was just a mess. 304 00:20:14,100 --> 00:20:18,900 And mentally, I was getting so out of sorts because of the 305 00:20:18,900 --> 00:20:23,900 physical issues I was having, I decided I have to work for 306 00:20:23,900 --> 00:20:27,200 myself. And so I figured out what I was going to do, and I 307 00:20:27,200 --> 00:20:29,960 started my business. After a lot of research, I decided I was 308 00:20:29,960 --> 00:20:33,800 going to open up a business intelligence, competitive 309 00:20:33,800 --> 00:20:41,260 intelligence research firm, and I did that. It it was awesome. 310 00:20:41,320 --> 00:20:43,900 It was great. It was wonderful. Had all the tools, had 311 00:20:43,900 --> 00:20:47,980 everything in front of me, and about three weeks in, realized I 312 00:20:47,980 --> 00:20:52,360 had no customers, and holy cow, I'm What am I supposed to do? Of 313 00:20:52,360 --> 00:20:54,940 course, the people that I was tied in with and the network 314 00:20:54,940 --> 00:20:57,820 that I was tied in with has told me you're gonna have to go out 315 00:20:57,820 --> 00:21:03,420 and make sales. Oh boy, that was that was enough to make me go 316 00:21:03,420 --> 00:21:07,860 absolutely nuts. So what do I do? How do I don't want to talk 317 00:21:07,860 --> 00:21:11,160 to strangers? I went to a couple of business networking meetings 318 00:21:11,160 --> 00:21:15,780 and it was insane. I literally babbled I don't know what to 319 00:21:15,780 --> 00:21:19,500 say. Or there was a couple of times I actually went got myself 320 00:21:19,500 --> 00:21:22,040 a cup of coffee and just in the corner because I literally 321 00:21:22,040 --> 00:21:25,100 didn't know what to do. So I thought, Well, what do you do 322 00:21:25,100 --> 00:21:29,900 when you don't know what to do? I called up friend. I says, What 323 00:21:29,900 --> 00:21:33,080 am I going to do? I don't know. This is what I do. You know? I 324 00:21:33,080 --> 00:21:36,860 just go and I talk to I talk to people. I ask them about the 325 00:21:36,860 --> 00:21:40,600 ball game. I asked them about their kids. And I sat there and 326 00:21:40,600 --> 00:21:43,360 said, Well, that doesn't fit me, but I'm a well, we'll figure 327 00:21:43,360 --> 00:21:47,140 this out. Then I remembered that year, many, many, many years 328 00:21:47,140 --> 00:21:54,040 ago, when I was young, my father had gone to Toastmasters, and I 329 00:21:54,040 --> 00:21:58,840 realized when I that Toastmasters the whole point was 330 00:21:59,140 --> 00:22:05,880 to to hone your presentation and speaking skills. Well, I don't 331 00:22:05,880 --> 00:22:09,360 have either. I could use both. So let's explore what this looks 332 00:22:09,360 --> 00:22:13,260 like. There was a club that was close by. It's really 333 00:22:13,260 --> 00:22:18,720 inexpensive to join, like 36 bucks a year, and I attended my 334 00:22:18,720 --> 00:22:24,380 first meeting as a guest, and I liked the way it was set up. I 335 00:22:24,380 --> 00:22:26,960 said, Yeah, this looks like this will work for me. So I joined, 336 00:22:27,020 --> 00:22:33,380 and I was a faithful attendee and member for three years. And 337 00:22:33,440 --> 00:22:39,020 after my first, I think it was after my fourth, my fourth 338 00:22:39,020 --> 00:22:43,780 speech that I gave was when I had been asked to after that is 339 00:22:43,780 --> 00:22:47,740 when I was asked by a local business group to present before 340 00:22:47,740 --> 00:22:52,300 their people. And then I started presenting and speaking in front 341 00:22:52,300 --> 00:22:56,380 of business networking groups. By the end of my first year at 342 00:22:56,380 --> 00:23:01,320 postmasters, I was a guest speaker at a university. And 343 00:23:01,320 --> 00:23:05,220 then that continued, started doing those. Then I was asked to 344 00:23:05,340 --> 00:23:11,940 to run workshops and present materials. So all of that side 345 00:23:11,940 --> 00:23:18,600 was awesome. The key was that soon after joining Toastmasters 346 00:23:19,500 --> 00:23:26,000 and I, within 30 days, I attended a National Association, 347 00:23:26,120 --> 00:23:29,360 National speaker Association, chapter meeting, and I only 348 00:23:29,360 --> 00:23:34,880 added my first research client there because I was in the right 349 00:23:34,880 --> 00:23:38,120 place in front of the right person. I had the right message, 350 00:23:38,120 --> 00:23:43,240 and now I could speak the message to the person, and he 351 00:23:43,240 --> 00:23:48,100 became, actually, he became a long term client. But that was 352 00:23:48,100 --> 00:23:52,120 the start. I had the problem. I figured out that there has to be 353 00:23:52,120 --> 00:23:56,560 a solution. If there's a problem, there's a solution. If 354 00:23:56,560 --> 00:23:59,140 I knew, I knew that if Toastmasters didn't work, 355 00:23:59,140 --> 00:24:02,820 there'd be something else. But it happened to work, and from 356 00:24:02,820 --> 00:24:08,460 there, I learned how to present my ideas, how to verbalize, how 357 00:24:08,460 --> 00:24:12,240 to articulate, how to do the small talk, how to do the 358 00:24:12,240 --> 00:24:16,320 conversational things, and more importantly, how to be clear 359 00:24:16,320 --> 00:24:20,840 about what I offer, what I have to offer when somebody presents 360 00:24:20,840 --> 00:24:21,500 their problem. 361 00:24:22,760 --> 00:24:26,060 Robert Plank: And the thing I'm getting from your story here is 362 00:24:26,060 --> 00:24:31,220 that there's, there's what, what you personally think about your 363 00:24:31,220 --> 00:24:33,860 your message and your business and what you need to be doing, 364 00:24:33,860 --> 00:24:37,220 and there's what reality is, right? There's what, what 365 00:24:37,220 --> 00:24:40,540 everyone else sees. And there's like the the person who you are 366 00:24:40,540 --> 00:24:44,860 and the person that you grow into. And it's easy to use your 367 00:24:44,860 --> 00:24:48,400 imagination and say, Oh, I know what I'll talk about. I'll 368 00:24:48,400 --> 00:24:50,800 dazzle them with all these cool jokes, and I'll say all these 369 00:24:50,800 --> 00:24:52,900 things. And then you get up there and you're talking, guess 370 00:24:52,900 --> 00:24:55,540 what? You have to actually do it. You can't just just imagine 371 00:24:55,540 --> 00:24:59,920 it. And then a lot of what was in there was the like, going. 372 00:25:00,060 --> 00:25:04,140 Like going forward and plowing through the slightly 373 00:25:04,140 --> 00:25:07,800 uncomfortable things to get to things that are way better. And, 374 00:25:07,860 --> 00:25:10,320 I mean, we all hesitate with those sorts of things. It's 375 00:25:10,320 --> 00:25:14,640 always so easy to back out of going to toastmasters or back 376 00:25:14,640 --> 00:25:17,520 out of that meeting, because it's easy in the moment, but 377 00:25:17,520 --> 00:25:21,320 then it's like, well, what will that lead to? And and just as 378 00:25:21,320 --> 00:25:23,960 you were explaining that what went through my imagination was 379 00:25:23,960 --> 00:25:27,200 just thinking about, like, the the scales of justice, right? 380 00:25:27,200 --> 00:25:30,380 There's like the blindfolded lady with the two scales. And 381 00:25:30,380 --> 00:25:33,500 it's like, well, there's, there's where you are now, and 382 00:25:33,500 --> 00:25:37,700 what, what that will lead to, like, having no money, or are, 383 00:25:37,700 --> 00:25:40,040 you know, working nine to five, and all those things that we 384 00:25:40,040 --> 00:25:43,960 don't want. And then on the other side of it is the like, 385 00:25:44,140 --> 00:25:47,860 what, what's what you end up having? Right? If you go and 386 00:25:47,860 --> 00:25:51,940 pursue those clients and you, you are fine being 387 00:25:51,940 --> 00:25:55,600 uncomfortable. And then even just, like, just chipping away 388 00:25:55,720 --> 00:26:00,840 through the the layers of, I'm not sure if it's like self 389 00:26:00,840 --> 00:26:04,380 deception, but just the things that have needed to be fixed for 390 00:26:04,380 --> 00:26:08,340 a while, and for some of us that might be the confidence or the 391 00:26:08,340 --> 00:26:12,120 public speaking or something like that, but I think that 392 00:26:12,300 --> 00:26:15,960 that's what I'm getting from just you pursuing these goals 393 00:26:16,080 --> 00:26:20,720 and going through The fear, the awkwardness and the uncertainty. 394 00:26:20,720 --> 00:26:21,380 Anyway, 395 00:26:22,640 --> 00:26:25,280 Charlene Burke: I like how you put it. It was a chipping away, 396 00:26:25,700 --> 00:26:34,040 because from from 2008 and so right now, in 2021 it has been a 397 00:26:34,040 --> 00:26:40,280 matter of simply doing small steps to achieving the big goal. 398 00:26:41,780 --> 00:26:47,920 But it's more than that, in that it does require chipping away at 399 00:26:48,340 --> 00:26:51,700 the obstacle that's in front of you. So what's the obstacle? Is 400 00:26:51,700 --> 00:26:56,320 it me, or is it the marketplace? Is it the economy that suddenly 401 00:26:56,320 --> 00:26:59,560 went crazy on us in the recession, because I had to 402 00:26:59,560 --> 00:27:02,940 pivot, see, I started out in research. That was my comfort 403 00:27:02,940 --> 00:27:06,780 zone. That was great. Give me a research project and and we're 404 00:27:06,780 --> 00:27:11,100 off to the races. And I started the officially started the 405 00:27:11,100 --> 00:27:18,720 business, actually, early, early 2008 but I didn't get high speed 406 00:27:18,720 --> 00:27:23,540 internet until summer of 2008 so about July, I could actually go 407 00:27:23,540 --> 00:27:29,660 online and start actively seeking other business. And I 408 00:27:29,660 --> 00:27:35,420 did. And so from July until September, I had more customers 409 00:27:35,900 --> 00:27:38,840 coming on board, and I was always in my element. This was 410 00:27:38,840 --> 00:27:41,800 great. Oh my gosh, we're gonna I knew that I would reach my 411 00:27:41,800 --> 00:27:45,280 ultimate goal, that in five years, we were going to be 412 00:27:45,400 --> 00:27:48,880 living in a particular way, in a particular place, and life was 413 00:27:48,880 --> 00:27:52,660 wonderful. And then September, the phone stopped ringing, 414 00:27:52,660 --> 00:27:56,440 because a lot of my clients were in the financial sector. So 415 00:27:56,440 --> 00:28:00,160 September of of oh eight, it was pretty much the beginning of the 416 00:28:00,160 --> 00:28:06,300 recession in my world. So in Oh, nine, I had to pivot because the 417 00:28:06,300 --> 00:28:09,180 phone wasn't ringing. No matter what I was doing, I couldn't 418 00:28:09,180 --> 00:28:13,260 even go back to my original first client in research. He 419 00:28:13,260 --> 00:28:16,440 said, No, I have to stop. I don't know what we're going to 420 00:28:16,440 --> 00:28:19,620 do. I'll get back to you once I figure it out. But I don't know 421 00:28:19,620 --> 00:28:22,940 what I'm going to do, because my customers are just dead in the 422 00:28:22,940 --> 00:28:27,740 water. We you know, everything came to stop. So in March of oh 423 00:28:27,740 --> 00:28:30,680 nine, I shifted the focus of my business to be an online 424 00:28:30,680 --> 00:28:34,760 marketing agency, because I knew that the locals in my area 425 00:28:34,760 --> 00:28:40,060 needed help. They didn't understand the online world. I 426 00:28:40,060 --> 00:28:43,120 knew how to do pretty much everything. With regard to 427 00:28:43,120 --> 00:28:47,080 marketing, I'd done marketing for enterprise level 428 00:28:47,080 --> 00:28:52,120 corporations as a job. I'd done the direct marketing when I was 429 00:28:52,120 --> 00:28:57,400 in my 20s, ran that farm with online you know, I've been 430 00:28:57,400 --> 00:29:01,680 online since 95 and using the library and other places right 431 00:29:01,740 --> 00:29:08,700 to be able to market. I just didn't, I just wasn't geared for 432 00:29:08,700 --> 00:29:13,740 making money at that time. But I could build with with HTML 433 00:29:13,860 --> 00:29:17,640 websites, just one right after the other. I could code, I could 434 00:29:18,000 --> 00:29:23,120 I understood the the mechanics, right? And when Google, I 435 00:29:23,120 --> 00:29:27,800 watched Google come out, and I knew I could see what to do with 436 00:29:27,800 --> 00:29:31,820 keywords. You know, it was easy, but I knew all that. And so I 437 00:29:31,820 --> 00:29:35,480 knew that I didn't want to do it all, but I knew that these 438 00:29:35,480 --> 00:29:39,860 people in my area needed this so now I had the market, and I knew 439 00:29:39,860 --> 00:29:44,260 what the problem was because I also understand how not 440 00:29:44,260 --> 00:29:48,940 understanding the language of online marketing can be so 441 00:29:48,940 --> 00:29:54,100 confusing. And I also had all network of people who could 442 00:29:54,100 --> 00:29:58,060 become fulfillment partners for everything, whatever that my 443 00:29:58,060 --> 00:30:01,440 clients needed I could fulfill. With these, I had, like, 100 444 00:30:01,740 --> 00:30:05,040 people who are either agency owners themselves or so 445 00:30:05,040 --> 00:30:10,440 practitioners. So I started selling online marketing 446 00:30:10,440 --> 00:30:14,160 services. And what I did was the writing, I did the content and 447 00:30:14,160 --> 00:30:19,800 the copy, and I brought on, you know, freelancers, if you will, 448 00:30:20,100 --> 00:30:24,680 or outsourced the entire team. Everything was remote with my 449 00:30:24,680 --> 00:30:30,140 agency in oh nine, and I landed a client, and then I landed 450 00:30:30,140 --> 00:30:32,960 another one, and then we were going to be okay. So by the end 451 00:30:32,960 --> 00:30:36,440 of all nine, yes, we're going to be okay. Give me four more 452 00:30:36,440 --> 00:30:38,720 years, and I'm going to live the life that I've been working 453 00:30:38,720 --> 00:30:41,140 towards, and we're going to live in this place, and this is how 454 00:30:41,140 --> 00:30:44,620 it's going to look. And what ended up happening was, about 455 00:30:44,620 --> 00:30:47,380 the third year of running an online marketing agency, I 456 00:30:47,380 --> 00:30:51,820 absolutely hated doing it. I was starting to feel the level of 457 00:30:51,820 --> 00:30:58,600 anxiety and and nervousness and dread that I had felt in my last 458 00:30:58,600 --> 00:31:02,940 job of working for somebody else, because that's what it 459 00:31:02,940 --> 00:31:07,320 felt like. The way I had set things up was and when I look 460 00:31:07,320 --> 00:31:11,460 back, it was me. It was the way I had set it up. I was working 461 00:31:11,460 --> 00:31:15,420 for somebody else. It felt that way. I didn't like it. I was no 462 00:31:15,420 --> 00:31:18,420 longer in control of my working environment. I wasn't in control 463 00:31:18,420 --> 00:31:23,240 of my hours. Didn't like it one bit. So that's when I decided it 464 00:31:23,240 --> 00:31:27,320 was time to do something else. So I started exploring options. 465 00:31:27,800 --> 00:31:32,120 And that was about 14. In 2014 I started experimenting with other 466 00:31:32,120 --> 00:31:35,840 things. Still had the online agency, like I said, I had that 467 00:31:35,840 --> 00:31:41,440 for until 2016 was the last recurring client, and then, 468 00:31:41,440 --> 00:31:47,320 actually, in 2019 finally let go of one who had, who, I know they 469 00:31:47,320 --> 00:31:50,260 always came back to when nothing else worked with somebody else, 470 00:31:50,260 --> 00:31:54,460 right? So they'd come back to me and say, so I went with another 471 00:31:54,460 --> 00:31:57,520 agency. And this is what they did, but they mucked it up. Need 472 00:31:57,520 --> 00:32:00,840 you to come in and fix it for me, or tell me who to go to, or 473 00:32:00,840 --> 00:32:05,400 what have you. And I finally told them that, well, I can 474 00:32:05,400 --> 00:32:08,820 still do that for you. I wouldn't trust me with that, 475 00:32:09,000 --> 00:32:13,920 because I'm not in that world anymore. Yeah, so I finally let 476 00:32:13,920 --> 00:32:17,640 go of that in 2019 completely. But until then, I experimented, 477 00:32:18,120 --> 00:32:24,800 and some of them were big, big old flops, you know, and some of 478 00:32:24,800 --> 00:32:27,140 them were pretty awesome, brought in money, but it's not 479 00:32:27,140 --> 00:32:32,660 what I wanted to do, right? That's not really what felt good 480 00:32:33,020 --> 00:32:41,680 about me taking my laptop someplace or giving me enough, 481 00:32:41,680 --> 00:32:45,100 there wasn't enough of a market in some instances where it was 482 00:32:45,100 --> 00:32:49,180 so over overdone that I just really didn't need to be in 483 00:32:49,180 --> 00:32:53,260 there. I tried training. I've realized that I'm very good at 484 00:32:53,260 --> 00:32:57,160 very good trainer, but that's not what I want to do anymore. I 485 00:32:57,160 --> 00:33:01,260 don't want to run workshops. I don't want to be pulled into the 486 00:33:01,260 --> 00:33:05,160 physical of one on ones or even one in a group. I can still 487 00:33:05,160 --> 00:33:07,380 speak from the stage. I can still do it quite well, but 488 00:33:07,380 --> 00:33:09,720 that's not what I want to do. That's not how I want to build 489 00:33:09,720 --> 00:33:13,440 my business. So I continue to experiment, and that's when, in 490 00:33:13,440 --> 00:33:17,460 2019 I said, you know, I wonder if people will just buy emails. 491 00:33:19,260 --> 00:33:24,020 And that's Yes they will. Yes, they will. So my, my, the 492 00:33:24,020 --> 00:33:28,400 majority of my business today is writing copy and content. The 493 00:33:28,400 --> 00:33:34,640 copy is the emails for a variety of clients, and the content part 494 00:33:34,640 --> 00:33:39,080 is the Grow PLR, some of my content, I've decided that 495 00:33:39,680 --> 00:33:43,720 others really enjoyed. And when I put it into PLR and just give 496 00:33:43,720 --> 00:33:47,320 them the rights to do with it what they will, they love it. So 497 00:33:48,820 --> 00:33:49,540 I do that. 498 00:33:50,500 --> 00:33:53,620 Robert Plank: So it seems like, with your journey here, there's, 499 00:33:53,860 --> 00:33:58,360 there's a matter of like you're using the word experiment a lot, 500 00:33:58,420 --> 00:34:03,240 and just try to see what happens. There's the element of 501 00:34:03,600 --> 00:34:07,380 powering through and giving things a chance. There's there 502 00:34:07,380 --> 00:34:10,980 is something in there of like, you know, that you have a skill 503 00:34:11,160 --> 00:34:14,940 that is in demand that others don't have, or others are very 504 00:34:14,940 --> 00:34:18,600 frustrated. And there's a lot of mentioning of like, the people 505 00:34:18,600 --> 00:34:21,740 and the clients. And I think that that's what stuck out to me 506 00:34:21,740 --> 00:34:24,860 quite a bit, is that it's really easy to fall in love with an 507 00:34:24,860 --> 00:34:29,240 idea. I mean, imagine if Mark Zuckerberg just said, I'm going 508 00:34:29,240 --> 00:34:32,000 to code Facebook, and we're not going to have anyone use it yet, 509 00:34:32,000 --> 00:34:34,460 but I'm going to add all these menus and all these features. 510 00:34:34,460 --> 00:34:38,540 And it's it seems like a really overlooked component is just 511 00:34:38,600 --> 00:34:41,980 seeing how people use it, or what people are asking about, or 512 00:34:41,980 --> 00:34:44,740 how much they they love your emails, or how you mentioned 513 00:34:44,740 --> 00:34:47,260 they're like they might have tried someone else. And then 514 00:34:47,260 --> 00:34:51,340 come back to you, and then it seems like the kind of the final 515 00:34:51,340 --> 00:34:55,120 point on this, this criteria, we're kind of developing, is, 516 00:34:55,240 --> 00:34:59,320 then there's you knowing when to say no, and in these last few 517 00:34:59,320 --> 00:35:01,980 minutes of our. Conversation here, I want to kind of focus on 518 00:35:01,980 --> 00:35:05,460 that, because that's a hard thing to do, right? It's hard to 519 00:35:05,460 --> 00:35:10,620 say no. And sometimes there's that uncertainty of, well, am I, 520 00:35:10,680 --> 00:35:13,800 am I pursuing this and have I not pursued enough for it to 521 00:35:13,800 --> 00:35:17,460 work? Or have I been pursuing it too long and I hate what I'm 522 00:35:17,460 --> 00:35:21,200 doing, but is it just I haven't given it enough chance, or and 523 00:35:21,200 --> 00:35:24,260 so how do you reconcile all that? How do you reconcile the 524 00:35:24,380 --> 00:35:27,380 what people want, what makes money, what you enjoy, or is it? 525 00:35:27,380 --> 00:35:29,900 Just figure it out over time as you go along. 526 00:35:30,800 --> 00:35:33,260 Charlene Burke: Well. So the first thing is, I want to, I 527 00:35:33,260 --> 00:35:37,460 want to touch base very quickly on this experiment thing. I was 528 00:35:37,460 --> 00:35:41,020 frightened. I was too scared to experiment in those first years 529 00:35:41,020 --> 00:35:47,860 of business. And what got me over the hump was a woman by the 530 00:35:47,860 --> 00:35:53,620 name of Nancy Keck. She had been a chemist, she had been a 531 00:35:54,460 --> 00:35:58,420 business consultant, brought in by GE to turn around one of 532 00:35:58,420 --> 00:36:02,400 their divisions, and she took me under her wing at a business 533 00:36:02,400 --> 00:36:07,560 networking meeting, and she sat me down and proceeded to explain 534 00:36:07,560 --> 00:36:12,840 to me that number one life is an experiment. You just don't know 535 00:36:12,840 --> 00:36:16,560 until you do it right, right? I said, Yeah, but it's a lot 536 00:36:16,560 --> 00:36:20,340 easier for me to actually walk through the entire conversation 537 00:36:20,340 --> 00:36:23,960 or experience in my head to decide if I want to do it. And 538 00:36:23,960 --> 00:36:25,820 she said, Well, we're not talking about easy. We're 539 00:36:25,820 --> 00:36:30,440 talking about life, and we're talking about moving. So we all 540 00:36:30,440 --> 00:36:33,560 know that each day you get out of bed as an experiment, if you 541 00:36:33,560 --> 00:36:38,180 can look at it that way, just your own personal life, that 542 00:36:38,180 --> 00:36:40,580 every day because you don't know what's going to happen, you have 543 00:36:41,060 --> 00:36:43,360 no idea what's going to happen when you walk out when you walk 544 00:36:43,360 --> 00:36:46,720 out your front door. You know what your plan is, but there's 545 00:36:46,720 --> 00:36:49,180 other people involved, and they're gonna muck it up. So 546 00:36:49,540 --> 00:36:52,480 what are you gonna do? You're going to adjust. You're going to 547 00:36:52,480 --> 00:36:56,920 be flexible. When I saw it that way, it was like this huge 548 00:36:56,920 --> 00:37:02,280 halogen light bulb moment that oh, so I can do that with my 549 00:37:02,280 --> 00:37:05,640 business. What's the worst thing that can happen? I can 550 00:37:05,640 --> 00:37:09,720 completely fail in front of a group of people I respect, and 551 00:37:09,720 --> 00:37:13,680 I'll be horrified and embarrassed. So I said that to 552 00:37:13,680 --> 00:37:16,260 her, and she said, You need to be talking to people who have 553 00:37:16,260 --> 00:37:19,980 failed. And that's what I did. I actually had had one to one 554 00:37:19,980 --> 00:37:22,400 conversations with people at networking meetings. She 555 00:37:22,400 --> 00:37:25,580 introduced me to some and then some people I've met online, and 556 00:37:25,880 --> 00:37:29,600 they shared with me there. A few of them were willing to share 557 00:37:29,600 --> 00:37:34,760 their most horrifying, embarrassing fails. And it was 558 00:37:34,760 --> 00:37:37,160 my worst fear that it would happen in front of all these 559 00:37:37,160 --> 00:37:41,740 people. And I never recovered from it, and when I realized 560 00:37:41,740 --> 00:37:44,500 that I am no different than anybody else that's out there, 561 00:37:45,280 --> 00:37:53,260 that they survived, and I can survive, and that means that I 562 00:37:53,260 --> 00:37:56,200 can take that idea of everything's an experiment and 563 00:37:56,200 --> 00:38:01,980 just apply it to my business. We're going to be good. That's 564 00:38:01,980 --> 00:38:06,180 when things started changing for me, as for the rest with each 565 00:38:06,180 --> 00:38:10,680 experiment, the ultimate goal was always still there, and it 566 00:38:10,680 --> 00:38:14,760 still is today. The ultimate goal is for me to be in control 567 00:38:14,760 --> 00:38:19,560 of my environment. The one I work within it is to be working 568 00:38:19,620 --> 00:38:25,280 with people are on projects that I so I said yes to I want to 569 00:38:25,280 --> 00:38:28,580 work with. I might be in the middle of it and hate it, but 570 00:38:28,580 --> 00:38:31,160 that's not the point. The point is I said yes, and it was my 571 00:38:31,160 --> 00:38:38,720 choice to say yes, and that the financial end is that I don't 572 00:38:38,720 --> 00:38:46,240 have to be concerned about today or my retirement future, that 573 00:38:46,240 --> 00:38:50,560 then all that means is that not only can I pay the monthly 574 00:38:50,560 --> 00:38:56,140 bills, I can set aside an emergency fund. And I only do 575 00:38:56,140 --> 00:38:59,680 and I've been able to set aside a 12 month emergency fund. That 576 00:38:59,680 --> 00:39:02,640 means, if something happens. Everything went crazy, except, 577 00:39:02,880 --> 00:39:06,840 you know, finances, everything went crazy that everything, the 578 00:39:06,840 --> 00:39:11,160 way we're living right now, can continue. So I'm secure there, 579 00:39:11,700 --> 00:39:15,900 and then I'm able to set aside into my retirement. So when the 580 00:39:15,900 --> 00:39:18,360 time comes and I decide, I, you know, I don't want to do any of 581 00:39:18,360 --> 00:39:24,200 this anymore, the heck with it. I'm done. I can do that, and 582 00:39:24,200 --> 00:39:27,860 that's what I'm working towards. So whatever new thing I start, I 583 00:39:27,860 --> 00:39:30,380 have to be flexible, because it's an experiment. We're going 584 00:39:30,380 --> 00:39:35,180 to see what happens. It has to be on the stepping stone to my 585 00:39:35,180 --> 00:39:39,380 reaching that ultimate goal. It has to utilize the skills that I 586 00:39:39,380 --> 00:39:44,680 have, and when I doubt that I was in the right place, when I 587 00:39:44,680 --> 00:39:51,400 doubt that this is actually going to work, or as recently as 588 00:39:51,760 --> 00:39:54,700 two months ago, when I said to myself, Should I be expanding 589 00:39:54,700 --> 00:40:00,300 these services? I reach out to people in my network who. No 590 00:40:00,300 --> 00:40:03,780 more than I do, I say. So this is where I sit right now. 591 00:40:04,260 --> 00:40:07,560 Another element throughout all of this is that I have run and 592 00:40:07,560 --> 00:40:11,760 been a part of mastermind groups, so that has been a big 593 00:40:11,760 --> 00:40:15,900 help to understanding that one, number one, as a business owner, 594 00:40:15,900 --> 00:40:19,680 I'm not I'm really not alone. I don't have to be. It's not a 595 00:40:19,680 --> 00:40:26,240 requirement. And by having the experience and view and 596 00:40:26,240 --> 00:40:30,560 perspectives of other people who have been challenged by 597 00:40:30,560 --> 00:40:34,460 something similar, I'm able to walk away with an answer for my 598 00:40:34,460 --> 00:40:39,440 own business and for my own self. So yeah, when in doubt, if 599 00:40:39,440 --> 00:40:42,580 I really I'm not sure this is exactly what I want to do. It's 600 00:40:42,580 --> 00:40:47,020 time for me to either talk to a business colleague or a group 601 00:40:47,260 --> 00:40:51,520 that I'm, you know, a part of, and ask them so this is what's 602 00:40:51,520 --> 00:40:56,200 going on, and trust that I'm in the right direction. Anyway, I'm 603 00:40:56,200 --> 00:40:59,500 going towards my ultimate goal. And if I have to make a 604 00:40:59,500 --> 00:41:03,240 correction, okay, you can do that, 605 00:41:04,980 --> 00:41:08,400 Robert Plank: right? Well, so from this it seems like, like we 606 00:41:08,400 --> 00:41:12,480 all have more options than we think, right? It seems like it's 607 00:41:12,480 --> 00:41:18,240 easy to get stuck in, in, in A or B, thinking and say, either 608 00:41:18,240 --> 00:41:21,380 this business is working or it isn't. Maybe it needs more time 609 00:41:21,380 --> 00:41:23,960 to work. Maybe there needs to be a different angle. Maybe you 610 00:41:23,960 --> 00:41:27,380 need to, I don't know, get get different traffic sources or 611 00:41:27,380 --> 00:41:31,280 network in a different way, or maybe think about a different 612 00:41:31,280 --> 00:41:34,760 way, or go to your support system and and even things like 613 00:41:34,820 --> 00:41:39,860 the idea of, well, Should I, should I talk while there's a 614 00:41:39,860 --> 00:41:43,060 car zooming in the background, or things like, Well, should I 615 00:41:43,300 --> 00:41:47,200 be doing, be in this career that I hate, or go off and do my own 616 00:41:47,200 --> 00:41:49,900 business? Well, doesn't have to be either. Or it's like you can 617 00:41:49,900 --> 00:41:54,400 set aside your emergency fund and have more of a strategy. And 618 00:41:54,400 --> 00:41:57,760 so that's, that's what I'm getting from, from your just 619 00:41:57,760 --> 00:42:01,920 your thought process overall here that we can we can see 620 00:42:01,920 --> 00:42:05,700 things from different angles, different ways. We don't have to 621 00:42:05,700 --> 00:42:09,360 be just stuck at this one point in time. And sometimes our 622 00:42:09,360 --> 00:42:13,320 thinking is bad, like if we have that negative self talk, or we 623 00:42:13,320 --> 00:42:17,940 just have the uncomfortableness or the fear. And it seems like 624 00:42:17,940 --> 00:42:21,920 from a lot of your your answers here, and a lot of your your 625 00:42:21,920 --> 00:42:25,460 insight is that other people help us to get to where we need 626 00:42:25,460 --> 00:42:29,240 to go, and maybe in ways that they might not realize even 627 00:42:29,240 --> 00:42:33,140 hearing about their failures. There's that saying of, if you 628 00:42:33,140 --> 00:42:36,740 think you have problems, get someone like get everyone to put 629 00:42:36,740 --> 00:42:39,560 their problems in a bowl. And if everyone hurt each other's 630 00:42:39,560 --> 00:42:42,220 problems, they just reach in the bowl and take their own problems 631 00:42:42,220 --> 00:42:46,360 back and so so yeah, life is unpredictable, but we can still 632 00:42:46,360 --> 00:42:50,320 have a strategy, and it does not have to be doom and gloom, but 633 00:42:50,320 --> 00:42:53,560 we can still be aware of the things that that can go wrong, 634 00:42:53,620 --> 00:42:57,580 or about the opportunities that we're missing. And as we're 635 00:42:57,700 --> 00:43:00,900 wrapping up, winding down here, do you think there's anything 636 00:43:00,900 --> 00:43:04,260 that we missed, or do you think there is like something that is 637 00:43:04,260 --> 00:43:07,380 unique to you, as far as life, advice that we all need to sit 638 00:43:07,380 --> 00:43:08,520 up and pay attention to? 639 00:43:19,680 --> 00:43:27,260 Charlene Burke: Well, okay, so one of my favorite sayings, to 640 00:43:27,260 --> 00:43:29,660 be honest, I'm just going to share this with you. It might 641 00:43:29,660 --> 00:43:34,100 help somebody is, no matter how bad things get, 642 00:43:35,180 --> 00:43:38,180 they can't put you between two pieces of bread and eat you. 643 00:43:38,420 --> 00:43:44,560 Okay? So, I mean, it's a matter of think through the absolute 644 00:43:44,560 --> 00:43:52,900 worst that could possibly happen and and understand that even if 645 00:43:52,900 --> 00:43:56,860 you've not been through worse, whatever you've been through to 646 00:43:56,860 --> 00:44:00,960 this point has gotten you here. Reach out to somebody else. 647 00:44:01,500 --> 00:44:07,440 Don't let there is one, there is one thing I can pass on that I 648 00:44:07,440 --> 00:44:11,460 wrote recently that may be of help. Don't let the need for a 649 00:44:11,460 --> 00:44:17,100 detour throw you right, right, that you're you've got an 650 00:44:17,100 --> 00:44:21,740 obstacle that hits you or you hit it. Don't let that stop you 651 00:44:21,740 --> 00:44:25,520 or throw you. Look at it as a detour. They can feel like a 652 00:44:25,520 --> 00:44:28,040 distraction. It can feel like you're moving off your path. 653 00:44:28,040 --> 00:44:31,100 You're going in a direct direction, but you have to 654 00:44:31,100 --> 00:44:35,600 revisit that ultimate goal. What ultimately is it that you you 655 00:44:35,600 --> 00:44:40,100 even started this venture for right? So you're either going to 656 00:44:40,100 --> 00:44:47,020 identify the current detour as that it will get you closer to 657 00:44:47,020 --> 00:44:51,880 your goal, or you're going to see that it won't, but you have 658 00:44:51,880 --> 00:44:54,700 to address it anyway. So that just means you're going to work 659 00:44:54,700 --> 00:44:57,280 out much harder to get through it so that you can get back on 660 00:44:57,280 --> 00:45:01,500 track either way, when it's when. Then the obstacle or the 661 00:45:01,500 --> 00:45:03,900 detours in front of you, you have to address it. You can't 662 00:45:03,900 --> 00:45:09,900 avoid it. And some people call it being uncomfortable. I call 663 00:45:09,900 --> 00:45:14,880 it being in a high state of anxiety and fear, and it will 664 00:45:14,880 --> 00:45:17,580 paralyze you if you don't do something. So reach out to 665 00:45:17,580 --> 00:45:21,020 somebody else. You're never alone. You never have to be 666 00:45:21,020 --> 00:45:23,900 alone. It's your choice. If you're by yourself, completely 667 00:45:23,900 --> 00:45:28,520 your choice. We do have control, and you can get through it, and 668 00:45:28,520 --> 00:45:31,880 you can get over it, under it, around it, and get back on the 669 00:45:31,880 --> 00:45:34,940 track that is going to get you to your ultimate goal and your 670 00:45:34,940 --> 00:45:36,440 ultimate destination. 671 00:45:37,640 --> 00:45:40,180 Robert Plank: And you mentioned choice in there, and you 672 00:45:40,180 --> 00:45:43,600 mentioned it before. As far as if you go on that detour, if you 673 00:45:43,600 --> 00:45:47,200 get off track, at least the things that you do make make 674 00:45:47,200 --> 00:45:50,440 sure that it's something that that you decided to do, because 675 00:45:50,440 --> 00:45:53,560 there's always some other option. You're not, you're not 676 00:45:53,560 --> 00:45:57,520 throwing into something new. You chose to go around that detour 677 00:45:57,700 --> 00:46:00,600 and that, I mean, I think that can be very helpful. As far as 678 00:46:00,840 --> 00:46:04,500 deciding if we're all on the, off the on the right track, or 679 00:46:04,620 --> 00:46:07,140 am I doing what I should be doing with my life? I mean, 680 00:46:07,260 --> 00:46:10,680 that's very helpful. And so we mentioned search. Oh, go ahead. 681 00:46:11,100 --> 00:46:11,640 Well, yeah, 682 00:46:11,640 --> 00:46:12,960 Charlene Burke: what's the filter you're going to be 683 00:46:12,960 --> 00:46:16,020 putting all this through? That's, that's really what it 684 00:46:16,020 --> 00:46:20,600 comes down to, right? So if I'm suddenly up against an obstacle 685 00:46:20,600 --> 00:46:24,800 or detour, or a choice of being able to go in a different 686 00:46:24,800 --> 00:46:27,860 direction. Is it really a different direction? Am I going 687 00:46:27,860 --> 00:46:32,480 to say yes to what looks like as awesome new thing? It looks like 688 00:46:32,480 --> 00:46:38,660 a great business opportunity, a wonderful collaboration, a 689 00:46:39,500 --> 00:46:42,040 something that I thought I always wanted to do, well, 690 00:46:42,040 --> 00:46:44,260 what's the filter I'm going to put that through to make that 691 00:46:44,260 --> 00:46:49,600 decision? My filter is, I'm on the path to this direction for 692 00:46:49,600 --> 00:46:55,120 my business. Is it to where I want it to be, to be able to 693 00:46:55,120 --> 00:47:02,580 detour so having the luxury of being able to say, No, that is 694 00:47:02,580 --> 00:47:07,320 not going to fit in with my getting to to the end result I 695 00:47:07,320 --> 00:47:11,340 want for my business right now. Might might happen later. I'll 696 00:47:11,340 --> 00:47:16,920 revisit that when I get to a point when I can say I've 697 00:47:16,920 --> 00:47:20,120 reached what I need to in my business. Oftentimes, this is, 698 00:47:20,120 --> 00:47:22,520 this is what will happen. You know how the shiny object 699 00:47:22,520 --> 00:47:23,060 syndrome, 700 00:47:23,840 --> 00:47:24,320 Robert Plank: oh yeah, 701 00:47:24,680 --> 00:47:27,320 Charlene Burke: with what that is, is you're always starting 702 00:47:27,320 --> 00:47:32,360 over because it's something new. But the frustration of starting 703 00:47:32,360 --> 00:47:36,740 over and something new every single time means you're just on 704 00:47:36,740 --> 00:47:40,900 a you're you're on a whirl, whirlwind treadmill, right? Your 705 00:47:40,900 --> 00:47:45,340 hamster in a wheel that you're not going anywhere. It feels 706 00:47:45,340 --> 00:47:47,320 like you are, but you're really not, because you're always 707 00:47:47,320 --> 00:47:51,760 starting over instead, put it through the filter of, is this 708 00:47:51,760 --> 00:47:56,620 actually going to help me to finish what I started here? And 709 00:47:56,620 --> 00:48:00,060 if it isn't, then I can say no. If it is, then I can see how I 710 00:48:00,060 --> 00:48:03,540 can fit it in. That's what I wanted to say. A 711 00:48:03,540 --> 00:48:05,940 Robert Plank: lot of things to consider, including timing, and 712 00:48:05,940 --> 00:48:09,000 so we mentioned search by burke.com that's okay. We 713 00:48:09,000 --> 00:48:13,080 mentioned search by burke.com and your email a copywriting 714 00:48:13,080 --> 00:48:16,260 service. We mentioned grow, plr.com as far as the content, 715 00:48:16,380 --> 00:48:19,140 did we leave anything out? Are there any URLs we need to 716 00:48:19,140 --> 00:48:20,720 mention that are really important here? 717 00:48:21,440 --> 00:48:22,220 Charlene Burke: No, that's it. 718 00:48:23,360 --> 00:48:26,240 Robert Plank: Okay, then we will see everyone at search by 719 00:48:26,300 --> 00:48:30,620 burke.com and grow plr.com and thanks for tuning in and 720 00:48:30,620 --> 00:48:31,160 listening.