1 00:00:00,060 --> 00:00:02,520 Robert Plank: Up. Hey everyone, and welcome back to the marketer 2 00:00:02,520 --> 00:00:06,960 of the day podcast. We are here with return guest John Doherty 3 00:00:07,020 --> 00:00:14,160 from get credo.com that's G, E, T, C, R, E, D, o.com, and John 4 00:00:14,160 --> 00:00:19,260 and credo are a Denver, Colorado based entrepreneur and marketing 5 00:00:19,260 --> 00:00:23,540 company, and credo helps you find the best SEO or digital 6 00:00:23,540 --> 00:00:27,740 marketing agency for Facebook, ads, SEO audits, content 7 00:00:27,740 --> 00:00:30,800 marketing and more that kind of thing. It's always changing, and 8 00:00:30,800 --> 00:00:33,560 it feels like we're always missing out on even like a lot 9 00:00:33,560 --> 00:00:36,440 of the fundamentals. So John will be telling us what we need 10 00:00:36,440 --> 00:00:39,800 to know, what to focus on, what to ignore. John, how's it going 11 00:00:39,800 --> 00:00:41,260 today? Doing well, Robert, 12 00:00:41,259 --> 00:00:43,299 John Doherty: thanks for having me back on. It's been, been a 13 00:00:43,299 --> 00:00:46,659 couple of years, and you know, lots happened, so it's good to 14 00:00:46,659 --> 00:00:48,399 see you again. Good to see 15 00:00:48,399 --> 00:00:50,859 Robert Plank: you. And not only does a lot happen on the 16 00:00:50,859 --> 00:00:53,799 internet, but it seems like it's like, always accelerating, like 17 00:00:53,859 --> 00:00:57,999 what used to be two years now seems like two weeks. So what is 18 00:00:57,999 --> 00:01:01,739 the latest with you, and what is the latest in the internet world 19 00:01:01,739 --> 00:01:03,299 that you think we need to focus on? 20 00:01:03,839 --> 00:01:06,299 John Doherty: Yeah, good question. So yeah, as you said, 21 00:01:06,299 --> 00:01:09,239 I totally agree it, man. Things are. Things have just 22 00:01:09,239 --> 00:01:13,559 accelerated really fast over the last, especially year, 18 months 23 00:01:13,559 --> 00:01:16,739 with the pandemic and all that. And so it's been an interesting 24 00:01:16,739 --> 00:01:19,439 time, you know, kind of being in the in the digital space, and 25 00:01:19,619 --> 00:01:22,699 seeing companies you know, kind of go through an evolution from, 26 00:01:23,239 --> 00:01:27,079 you know, in person offices, to work from home. And then also, 27 00:01:27,139 --> 00:01:29,779 you know, a lot of companies kind of taking a hard look at 28 00:01:29,779 --> 00:01:31,999 their books, taking a hard look at what they're spending on, 29 00:01:31,999 --> 00:01:34,459 where they're getting a return from, and kind of moving things 30 00:01:34,459 --> 00:01:38,299 around. So it's been a really, like interesting time seeing 31 00:01:38,299 --> 00:01:41,439 what companies are doing when it comes to marketing and kind of 32 00:01:41,439 --> 00:01:44,799 what they're investing in, and honestly, something that we've 33 00:01:44,799 --> 00:01:47,319 seen that's been been, well, there there was one thing that I 34 00:01:47,319 --> 00:01:50,979 expected to see that I didn't see, and one thing that I didn't 35 00:01:50,979 --> 00:01:54,159 realize we would see that happen. So the first one is I 36 00:01:54,159 --> 00:01:59,019 expected to see a lot more companies, kind of laying off 37 00:01:59,019 --> 00:02:01,799 their marketing teams to go into more of a hub and spoke model 38 00:02:02,099 --> 00:02:05,639 of, you know, sort of having, like in house specialists, kind 39 00:02:05,639 --> 00:02:08,219 of having, like, a couple of generalists, kind of marketing 40 00:02:08,219 --> 00:02:11,579 managers, and then managing an SEO firm and a Facebook ads firm 41 00:02:11,579 --> 00:02:14,219 and that kind of thing. And I actually did not really see that 42 00:02:14,219 --> 00:02:17,519 happen. I saw a lot of companies just kind of retain their teams 43 00:02:17,519 --> 00:02:20,779 and kept kind of doing, doing the same things. And saw a lot 44 00:02:20,779 --> 00:02:25,639 of companies actually pull back on agency spend and kind of do a 45 00:02:25,639 --> 00:02:28,519 lot more of it in house. So that was really, really interesting 46 00:02:28,879 --> 00:02:31,639 to see. So that that bet that I made kind of didn't pan out, or 47 00:02:31,639 --> 00:02:35,479 just what I was watching for didn't really pan out. And then 48 00:02:35,479 --> 00:02:40,719 also something that I did see is we've seen a lot of companies, 49 00:02:41,139 --> 00:02:45,159 when they're hiring agencies, get a lot more focused on on 50 00:02:45,159 --> 00:02:47,499 that agency's experience. They're all requiring case 51 00:02:47,499 --> 00:02:50,739 studies. Now, companies hiring are all requiring case studies. 52 00:02:50,739 --> 00:02:53,619 So if you're an agency, you have to have case studies, you know, 53 00:02:53,619 --> 00:02:56,979 kind of in the major verticals that you work in, and then when 54 00:02:56,979 --> 00:02:59,739 you're talking to the company, or, you know, talking to a 55 00:02:59,739 --> 00:03:02,339 prospect, or if you're a prospect that's hiring an 56 00:03:02,339 --> 00:03:06,899 agency, the agency needs to present the case studies of the 57 00:03:06,899 --> 00:03:08,759 type of company that you are, right? Maybe they're not 58 00:03:08,759 --> 00:03:11,159 somebody exactly in your vertical, but if you're e 59 00:03:11,159 --> 00:03:13,919 commerce, the agency, during their sales process, needs to 60 00:03:13,919 --> 00:03:17,099 present to you other e commerce clients, right? Like they should 61 00:03:17,099 --> 00:03:19,439 be talking about B to B Legion and that kind of thing. They 62 00:03:19,439 --> 00:03:21,739 might mention them as they're talking about, well, this is how 63 00:03:21,739 --> 00:03:24,319 we work with that client, with this specific client, but when 64 00:03:24,319 --> 00:03:26,419 you're talking about the marketing strategies that are 65 00:03:26,419 --> 00:03:28,759 going to be employed, that agency needs to show you that 66 00:03:28,759 --> 00:03:31,759 they have experience working with your type of business. So 67 00:03:31,759 --> 00:03:34,579 that's been an interesting shift that we've seen clients or 68 00:03:34,579 --> 00:03:37,999 prospects requiring, requiring that, and actually really 69 00:03:37,999 --> 00:03:40,099 looking for that. I think that's a really good thing, and it 70 00:03:40,099 --> 00:03:43,239 makes agencies up their game as well, and we've seen fewer 71 00:03:43,239 --> 00:03:45,939 people kind of hiring agencies and be like, we're going to take 72 00:03:45,939 --> 00:03:48,219 a chance on this one and see how it works out. What's the worst 73 00:03:48,219 --> 00:03:50,019 that could happen? Right? I mean, the worst that could 74 00:03:50,019 --> 00:03:52,239 happen always has been, you're going to waste time, you're 75 00:03:52,239 --> 00:03:54,639 going to waste money, you're going to waste opportunity, but 76 00:03:54,639 --> 00:03:58,119 people are much less willing to take that, to take that shot 77 00:03:58,119 --> 00:04:02,099 now. So it's been an interesting time to kind of see how behavior 78 00:04:02,099 --> 00:04:04,199 has shifted in the industry. And what 79 00:04:04,200 --> 00:04:06,180 Robert Plank: comes to mind when you mentioned that, is the whole 80 00:04:06,180 --> 00:04:08,460 idea of like, the marketplace cycles, how there's like, 81 00:04:08,460 --> 00:04:11,460 there's like a novelty stage where, like, just having an 82 00:04:11,460 --> 00:04:14,340 agency makes you stand out, but then it gets too crowded, and 83 00:04:14,340 --> 00:04:17,700 then it turns into who can be, be bigger and deliver bigger 84 00:04:17,700 --> 00:04:20,340 results. And then that gets too crowded, and then it turns into 85 00:04:20,340 --> 00:04:23,780 like, the sophistication and who can be like, who can have the 86 00:04:23,780 --> 00:04:28,580 most add ons? But then it seems like at that point, then it's 87 00:04:28,580 --> 00:04:31,640 really easy to get really deep into all the geeks speak, right? 88 00:04:31,640 --> 00:04:35,300 And if there's some, like, brick and mortar store, like, they 89 00:04:35,300 --> 00:04:39,140 just get get so bogged down hearing about QR codes and 90 00:04:39,140 --> 00:04:42,460 Bluetooth beacons and like, geofencing and just all these, 91 00:04:42,640 --> 00:04:45,700 all these crazy things. It's like, it becomes so overloading 92 00:04:45,700 --> 00:04:48,940 overwhelming. It's like, well, I know that there's like 75 things 93 00:04:48,940 --> 00:04:52,360 that you can do for me, but instead of choosing one or two 94 00:04:52,360 --> 00:04:54,880 or trying to unpack them, like, I just want to know that you 95 00:04:54,880 --> 00:04:58,480 have experience and that you've done this whole kind of package 96 00:04:58,480 --> 00:05:01,800 for you. So along those lines. Along that kind of thinking, 97 00:05:01,920 --> 00:05:06,300 what is, like a cool case study from your agency recently, like, 98 00:05:06,300 --> 00:05:08,700 because we're talking about, you know, having, having the story, 99 00:05:08,700 --> 00:05:11,580 and talking about, well, there's this vertical type of client 100 00:05:11,580 --> 00:05:14,760 that you want to land and you have, like, a success story. 101 00:05:14,820 --> 00:05:16,740 What comes to mind in that area? 102 00:05:17,820 --> 00:05:20,300 John Doherty: Yeah, so, I mean, I think it's also worth, you 103 00:05:20,300 --> 00:05:22,820 know, mentioning that credo is kind of a, we're a productized 104 00:05:22,820 --> 00:05:24,920 service that we sit in the middle. We're matchmakers that 105 00:05:24,920 --> 00:05:27,620 we help companies find in higher digital marketing firms, right? 106 00:05:27,620 --> 00:05:30,080 So, you know, we're not, we're not an agency ourselves selling 107 00:05:30,080 --> 00:05:33,320 marketing services to to clients. So that's, it's 108 00:05:33,320 --> 00:05:35,900 actually been really interesting, because we get to 109 00:05:35,900 --> 00:05:38,900 see a broader set, right? We get to see a lot of agencies trying 110 00:05:38,900 --> 00:05:41,620 to sell a lot of work, and we're matching millions of dollars of 111 00:05:41,620 --> 00:05:44,500 marketing budget with agencies every single month, and we're a 112 00:05:44,500 --> 00:05:47,140 small team of six out of Denver, Colorado. So, you know, we're 113 00:05:47,140 --> 00:05:50,560 not we punch way above, way above our weight, but we had an 114 00:05:50,560 --> 00:05:53,080 interesting and probably reason why this is Top of Mind is 115 00:05:53,080 --> 00:05:56,260 because we had an interesting situation recently, great B to B 116 00:05:56,260 --> 00:05:59,740 SAS company coming in, looking to hire they. You know, we 117 00:05:59,740 --> 00:06:01,740 matched them up with a few of our partners. We have our 118 00:06:01,740 --> 00:06:07,020 partner agencies. And I was, I was they this specific prospect 119 00:06:07,560 --> 00:06:10,140 hired us to basically help them through the process, helping 120 00:06:10,140 --> 00:06:13,560 them out with, you know, questions to ask and, you know, 121 00:06:13,560 --> 00:06:17,040 reviewing proposals and that sort of thing. And they got to 122 00:06:17,040 --> 00:06:19,620 the end with a couple of the agencies. They had one that they 123 00:06:19,620 --> 00:06:22,400 liked, and that agency just would not show them. I know they 124 00:06:22,400 --> 00:06:24,620 have these cases, but they wouldn't show them case studies 125 00:06:24,620 --> 00:06:27,680 and give them examples, even anonymized, of work that they've 126 00:06:27,680 --> 00:06:31,220 done for very similar B to B SaaS companies. And the client 127 00:06:31,220 --> 00:06:34,700 literally told me, Rob, they said, it's like, we're at the 128 00:06:34,700 --> 00:06:37,640 store and we have the credit card and we want to swipe it, 129 00:06:37,700 --> 00:06:41,680 but they keep taking the point of sale system away from us. And 130 00:06:41,680 --> 00:06:44,320 so they actually went back and brought some other agencies back 131 00:06:44,320 --> 00:06:46,660 into the, you know, into consideration, and had those 132 00:06:46,660 --> 00:06:49,180 conversations, and that kind of thing this agency could have 133 00:06:49,180 --> 00:06:51,580 closed if they just had those case studies ready to go and 134 00:06:51,580 --> 00:06:55,240 been able to talk about talk about them. So, you know, likely 135 00:06:55,240 --> 00:06:59,080 that that this prospect, this client, has not hired yet, but 136 00:06:59,080 --> 00:07:01,560 they're likely going to go with somebody else that you know, 137 00:07:01,560 --> 00:07:04,860 basically specializes in B to B SAS and has those case studies 138 00:07:04,860 --> 00:07:07,980 ready to go. And I've seen this happening more and more where, 139 00:07:07,980 --> 00:07:09,960 like, they're getting close and they're like, but we just 140 00:07:09,960 --> 00:07:13,440 haven't seen this thing that we need to see, and it's almost 141 00:07:13,500 --> 00:07:17,460 always experience with their type of business. And being able 142 00:07:17,460 --> 00:07:20,420 to talk about that, as I said, even in an anonymized sort of 143 00:07:20,420 --> 00:07:22,580 way, you don't have to tell them specifically, this is the 144 00:07:22,580 --> 00:07:25,220 client. Was, Is there a point of contact? Was that kind of thing, 145 00:07:25,280 --> 00:07:28,700 but it's just, this is a, this is a, you know, B to B to B, 146 00:07:28,700 --> 00:07:31,700 funded venture back, B to B, SAS company that we worked with, and 147 00:07:31,700 --> 00:07:34,160 we took them from x to y, and this is what the, you know, this 148 00:07:34,160 --> 00:07:36,440 is what the engagement looked like. Even that right there 149 00:07:36,440 --> 00:07:39,680 would have helped this prospect be ready to sign. And that's, 150 00:07:39,680 --> 00:07:41,920 Robert Plank: that's interesting to think about. Because, I mean, 151 00:07:41,920 --> 00:07:45,580 there's been so many times when, when I just, I would go and 152 00:07:45,580 --> 00:07:48,160 like, like, package something up real quick just to make a sale, 153 00:07:48,160 --> 00:07:51,580 and think, like, okay, like, I don't really feel like, like, 154 00:07:51,580 --> 00:07:55,120 you know, putting this data into a PDF document. I don't really 155 00:07:55,120 --> 00:07:59,020 feel like getting this graphic, but I would just like, have it 156 00:07:59,080 --> 00:08:01,680 there and ready to buy. And that would work. And there's been so 157 00:08:01,680 --> 00:08:05,220 many, and it's like, sort of a similar idea of, like, there's, 158 00:08:05,220 --> 00:08:07,500 there's been times when, like, I just would whip up a button, 159 00:08:07,500 --> 00:08:10,680 someone would say, I want to buy this service from you, or want 160 00:08:10,680 --> 00:08:14,580 to buy this custom package. And years ago, I used to say, oh, 161 00:08:14,580 --> 00:08:17,940 no, I'm not interested in and selling this particular service. 162 00:08:17,940 --> 00:08:21,260 Or I'd like go in, like, waste two weeks figuring out a good 163 00:08:21,260 --> 00:08:24,740 package. And nowadays, sometimes if someone's ready to buy I'll 164 00:08:24,740 --> 00:08:27,860 just figure out, like, what they need, give them a button, and 165 00:08:27,860 --> 00:08:30,620 then half the time of the work, and I'll be like, Whoa. I didn't 166 00:08:30,620 --> 00:08:33,140 expect them to buy it then. So that's kind of what comes to 167 00:08:33,140 --> 00:08:35,720 mind there, of like, just the idea of, like, having a buy 168 00:08:35,720 --> 00:08:39,500 button for something, and it's so simple and it's so easy not 169 00:08:39,500 --> 00:08:43,000 to have, but it's also not that difficult to just get something 170 00:08:43,000 --> 00:08:45,280 prepared and kind of like how you're saying here with if 171 00:08:45,280 --> 00:08:48,640 everyone's missing the case study, and if, if you're going 172 00:08:48,640 --> 00:08:51,820 to all this trouble of figuring out the traffic and making sure 173 00:08:51,820 --> 00:08:55,000 your your agency website's working, and you have, you know, 174 00:08:55,000 --> 00:08:57,400 wasting all are not wasting, but you're spending all this ad 175 00:08:57,400 --> 00:09:00,220 spend, doing all this work just to get them right to the end. 176 00:09:00,340 --> 00:09:03,360 Like you said, it's like you're snatching away the the credit 177 00:09:03,360 --> 00:09:07,080 card swiper, and they have their credit card ready to go. And so, 178 00:09:07,140 --> 00:09:10,080 so that seems like something that that we all need to kind of 179 00:09:10,080 --> 00:09:13,620 sit up and pay attention to. And especially if, especially like, 180 00:09:13,620 --> 00:09:16,620 kind of this whole idea you're saying of seeing where the 181 00:09:16,620 --> 00:09:20,040 marketplace is at. And so, like, how do you how do you notice 182 00:09:20,040 --> 00:09:23,720 those things isn't, is that a matter of like, like staying on 183 00:09:23,720 --> 00:09:25,820 the message boards or, like, checking the news every day? 184 00:09:25,820 --> 00:09:30,380 Like, how do you come to this sort of conclusion, such as, we 185 00:09:30,380 --> 00:09:32,960 need case studies, like, how do you stay on top of that? 186 00:09:34,280 --> 00:09:36,020 John Doherty: Oh, man, it's a good it's a good question. 187 00:09:36,020 --> 00:09:39,500 Honestly, it's just, it's a problem that I don't know that 188 00:09:39,500 --> 00:09:42,280 anyone is solving. Well, I don't think we're solving it Well, I 189 00:09:42,280 --> 00:09:45,760 kind of evangelize it on, you know, doing podcast interviews 190 00:09:45,760 --> 00:09:50,080 like this. I think part, I think part of it might be actually 191 00:09:50,080 --> 00:09:52,720 being part of, you know, like an agency group. There's so many 192 00:09:52,720 --> 00:09:55,420 good like Facebook groups of agency owners. When it comes to 193 00:09:55,420 --> 00:09:58,840 mind is, I think it's called digital agency insiders or 194 00:09:58,840 --> 00:10:01,500 something like that. We actually have one at Credo called 195 00:10:01,500 --> 00:10:04,440 effective agency owners, where, you know, people are kind of 196 00:10:04,440 --> 00:10:07,680 posting questions and asking, you know, asking questions like 197 00:10:07,680 --> 00:10:11,760 this. Yeah, it's kind of a the especially like the agency 198 00:10:11,760 --> 00:10:15,060 space, agency owner space, it's kind of a tough, it's tough to 199 00:10:15,060 --> 00:10:17,940 get a lot of that signal right and kind of realize what's, you 200 00:10:17,940 --> 00:10:20,100 know, what's happening, where the shifts are happening, 201 00:10:20,640 --> 00:10:22,880 broader in the market. So I don't really have a great answer 202 00:10:22,880 --> 00:10:25,280 for you, other than, you know, there are communities out there, 203 00:10:25,460 --> 00:10:28,100 you know, and different like coaching programs, that kind of 204 00:10:28,100 --> 00:10:30,920 thing as well, that, you know, where there's a community and 205 00:10:30,920 --> 00:10:33,860 people are kind of discussing this sort of thing, 206 00:10:34,640 --> 00:10:36,980 Robert Plank: okay, fair enough. And, yeah, I'm in, I'm in some 207 00:10:36,980 --> 00:10:41,140 of these groups like this, where it feels like a waste of time 208 00:10:41,140 --> 00:10:43,300 because I'm going on, I'm getting distracted. I'm like, 209 00:10:43,300 --> 00:10:46,660 Oh, this person's talking about that. But then I feel like, when 210 00:10:46,660 --> 00:10:50,800 I limit myself to like, just like, 510, minutes a day looking 211 00:10:50,800 --> 00:10:53,980 at some of this, I feel like I kind of slowly get it, like, 212 00:10:53,980 --> 00:10:57,460 sinking into my brain. And if the same person is talking about 213 00:10:57,460 --> 00:11:00,040 the same thing again and again, I'm like, ooh, that's the thing 214 00:11:00,040 --> 00:11:03,180 to be paying attention to and and sometimes it helps me 215 00:11:03,180 --> 00:11:06,420 overcome, like, the kind of the more boring things, like, for 216 00:11:06,420 --> 00:11:10,620 example, how the big talk these days is about the page load 217 00:11:10,620 --> 00:11:14,160 speed, right? And how it's like, oh, page load speed. It's like, 218 00:11:14,160 --> 00:11:16,380 one of the last things I want to think about. But then if 219 00:11:16,380 --> 00:11:19,440 everyone's concerned about page load speed, then I start to 220 00:11:19,440 --> 00:11:23,360 think, Okay, this is becoming more and more of a, like, a 221 00:11:23,360 --> 00:11:26,660 priority for me. And so, like, I'm sure that you see a lot of 222 00:11:26,660 --> 00:11:29,780 these, like agencies out there doing things right and doing 223 00:11:29,780 --> 00:11:32,240 things wrong. And we already talked about, like, the the 224 00:11:32,240 --> 00:11:34,760 wrong thing is, like, not having the case studies ready. But are 225 00:11:34,760 --> 00:11:37,640 you seeing a lot of people like, doing doing things really well 226 00:11:37,640 --> 00:11:39,380 that maybe we should all pay attention to? 227 00:11:40,400 --> 00:11:43,780 John Doherty: Yeah. So I it's interesting, the agencies that 228 00:11:43,780 --> 00:11:47,320 I'm seeing close the best work these days, or close the most 229 00:11:47,320 --> 00:11:51,100 work these days and keep clients the happiest. They're not the 230 00:11:51,100 --> 00:11:54,760 ones that are out there kind of talking heads on Twitter talking 231 00:11:54,760 --> 00:11:58,300 about core web vitals and Page Speed, right? Because those, 232 00:11:58,360 --> 00:12:02,700 while those are absolutely important, there are so many 233 00:12:02,700 --> 00:12:05,580 companies out there that just have not gotten the basics 234 00:12:05,580 --> 00:12:09,720 right, and the getting what has been so good for so long in the 235 00:12:09,720 --> 00:12:12,420 digital marketing world that you could kind of just like, throw 236 00:12:12,420 --> 00:12:14,760 some things against the wall, and some of it would hit and you 237 00:12:14,820 --> 00:12:18,060 could build a decent business, you know. But what we've really 238 00:12:18,060 --> 00:12:22,820 seen in the last 18 months or so is that if you're not nailing 239 00:12:22,880 --> 00:12:25,340 the basics, you don't have, you know, when it comes to SEO, for 240 00:12:25,340 --> 00:12:28,580 example, you don't have good on site, you know, technical SEO 241 00:12:28,580 --> 00:12:31,940 your pages. You know, if you have a lot of pages, way deep 242 00:12:31,940 --> 00:12:34,100 down, it takes a lot of clicks to get to them, they're not 243 00:12:34,100 --> 00:12:36,560 going to rank. You know, if you're not kind of getting that 244 00:12:36,560 --> 00:12:39,320 sort of thing right, you know, the right messaging on the page, 245 00:12:39,320 --> 00:12:41,740 the right keyword targeting, that kind of thing, you're just 246 00:12:41,740 --> 00:12:44,440 not going to do nearly as well as someone else that has nailed 247 00:12:44,440 --> 00:12:46,900 that right. And then producing content that you know, is 248 00:12:46,900 --> 00:12:49,120 engineered to rank. It's engineered to be read, it's 249 00:12:49,120 --> 00:12:52,360 engineered to rank, and it's engineered to get people to 250 00:12:52,360 --> 00:12:56,800 convert. And then same thing with link building. If you don't 251 00:12:56,800 --> 00:12:59,500 have those basics nailed, you're not doing nearly as well now as 252 00:12:59,500 --> 00:13:02,460 you were before. And so the agencies that we see doing the 253 00:13:02,460 --> 00:13:05,520 best, yeah, they can talk about core web vitals. They know what 254 00:13:05,520 --> 00:13:07,740 it means. They can talk about page speed and, you know, 255 00:13:07,740 --> 00:13:10,560 improving that, and why you should be, you know, doing that. 256 00:13:10,800 --> 00:13:15,000 But at the end of the day, they have a set process that works 257 00:13:15,000 --> 00:13:18,600 well to say, Okay, let's get all these things covered, and then 258 00:13:18,600 --> 00:13:22,700 we can worry about core web vitals, Page Speed, you know, 259 00:13:22,700 --> 00:13:25,760 where your form is on the page, that sort of thing. And kind of 260 00:13:25,760 --> 00:13:28,580 stacking those in a way that makes sense, nailing the basics, 261 00:13:28,700 --> 00:13:31,460 working on Page Speed, working on, you know, making sure your 262 00:13:31,460 --> 00:13:34,040 bases are covered when it comes to whatever new thing Google has 263 00:13:34,040 --> 00:13:37,340 talked about. And then once you have that, then the efforts on 264 00:13:37,340 --> 00:13:40,480 conversion optimization, that sort of thing, are really going 265 00:13:40,480 --> 00:13:43,300 to show, really going to show better results, right? You're 266 00:13:43,300 --> 00:13:46,780 going to get a better return on your investment if you start 267 00:13:46,780 --> 00:13:49,360 kind of investing in those then, as opposed to like, let's start 268 00:13:49,360 --> 00:13:52,360 running a bunch of Facebook ads. But you're, you know, your site 269 00:13:52,360 --> 00:13:54,880 doesn't load and your messaging doesn't make any sense, right? 270 00:13:54,880 --> 00:13:57,100 You got to solve that stuff first. You got to walk before 271 00:13:57,100 --> 00:13:59,680 you run. And so actually, Rob, it's interesting that we're 272 00:13:59,680 --> 00:14:02,520 seeing more companies coming to us being like, we don't have the 273 00:14:02,520 --> 00:14:06,900 basics. We don't have the basics nailed yet, right? Like, versus 274 00:14:06,900 --> 00:14:10,260 before, we got a lot of people coming to us saying, Oh, I see 275 00:14:10,260 --> 00:14:13,020 my competitors are doing this thing. And so we're not really 276 00:14:13,020 --> 00:14:16,140 sure if it's going to work for us or not. And you know, we're 277 00:14:16,140 --> 00:14:18,540 going to try it out for a little bit if the returns there will 278 00:14:18,540 --> 00:14:21,860 invest more like, or, Oh, we're thinking about maybe possibly 279 00:14:21,860 --> 00:14:24,800 doing something around SEO in the future. Can you tell us on 280 00:14:24,800 --> 00:14:26,960 why we should do it? We're not seeing that anymore. We're 281 00:14:26,960 --> 00:14:29,360 seeing people coming to us and being like, we're getting out 282 00:14:29,360 --> 00:14:32,120 flanked when it comes to SEO and content, and we need an agency 283 00:14:32,120 --> 00:14:34,640 that's going to help us be competitive in the marketplace 284 00:14:34,820 --> 00:14:37,460 again. So people are just much more serious. There's a lot. 285 00:14:37,460 --> 00:14:41,260 There are way fewer tire kickers out there. Is what we've seen, 286 00:14:41,440 --> 00:14:44,500 which is really good, right? We wait, we spend less of our time 287 00:14:44,500 --> 00:14:48,040 on unqualified people. Agencies spend less of their time talking 288 00:14:48,040 --> 00:14:50,920 to unqualified people, and at the end of the day, more 289 00:14:50,920 --> 00:14:53,980 companies end up hiring agencies that can help them get results. 290 00:14:54,820 --> 00:14:56,620 Robert Plank: And that's reassuring to hear, because, 291 00:14:56,620 --> 00:14:59,920 like, like, I mean, I'm not like an agency, per se, but every. 292 00:15:00,000 --> 00:15:03,600 Now and then I like, I'm talking to a prospective client, and 293 00:15:03,660 --> 00:15:06,720 those want a certain thing right to be like, I want to run Yelp 294 00:15:06,720 --> 00:15:10,800 pads, or like, I want to do the the billboard thing where, like, 295 00:15:10,800 --> 00:15:13,560 you it's like a cost per click, and it like shows on some 296 00:15:13,560 --> 00:15:16,200 digital billboard. And I'm like, thinking, like, okay, like, 297 00:15:16,200 --> 00:15:19,380 which competitor of yours was doing that? And then you, all 298 00:15:19,380 --> 00:15:22,700 you saw was that you didn't see all the 52 other things they 299 00:15:22,700 --> 00:15:25,280 were doing as far of the foundation. And it's like, 300 00:15:25,280 --> 00:15:27,980 they're singularly focused on, like, catching up with this 301 00:15:27,980 --> 00:15:31,640 competitor, but then, but then looking as an outsider, looking 302 00:15:31,640 --> 00:15:35,300 in on their website. It's like, I can't easily tell, like, their 303 00:15:35,300 --> 00:15:38,840 their hours of operation. I can't easily, like, get to a 304 00:15:38,840 --> 00:15:43,060 contact form. And so you're so right that it's it's good that 305 00:15:43,060 --> 00:15:46,180 this, that this has evolved into this where, instead of saying, 306 00:15:46,480 --> 00:15:49,840 oh, I want this gimmick, I want this, this one thing, and I'm 307 00:15:49,840 --> 00:15:54,220 not even sure why, instead it's kind of going back to whatever 308 00:15:54,220 --> 00:15:57,520 those fundamentals like you said, like the the it's not easy 309 00:15:57,520 --> 00:16:00,900 to get down and drill down to just the exact page On the site, 310 00:16:00,960 --> 00:16:05,040 or the linking or something like that. So like, what is, what's 311 00:16:05,040 --> 00:16:08,820 an easy win for someone out there? Is it a matter of, like, 312 00:16:08,880 --> 00:16:12,720 booking a call with you, or, like, going through some kind of 313 00:16:12,720 --> 00:16:15,480 a checklist, like, what's something that that we could all 314 00:16:15,480 --> 00:16:19,020 do, like today or this week, just to in general, like, get 315 00:16:19,020 --> 00:16:21,680 our get our websites working better, get our businesses like 316 00:16:21,680 --> 00:16:22,580 functioning better. 317 00:16:24,980 --> 00:16:27,440 John Doherty: Interesting, interesting question. I think 318 00:16:27,440 --> 00:16:33,500 the first thing would be to go and, I mean, try to take a look, 319 00:16:33,500 --> 00:16:36,980 and I try to do this fairly often with our site, is go and 320 00:16:36,980 --> 00:16:41,380 try to take a look at your your your own website, your own 321 00:16:41,380 --> 00:16:45,520 presence online as a potential buyer, right? So I put myself 322 00:16:45,580 --> 00:16:48,160 into the mind of, you know, like, yes, I've been a mark. 323 00:16:48,160 --> 00:16:50,140 I've been in marketing for a long time. Yes, I was a 324 00:16:50,140 --> 00:16:52,720 marketing consultant for a long time. I've worked in agencies. I 325 00:16:52,720 --> 00:16:57,700 worked in house. And so I tried to go back to that mindset of, 326 00:16:57,700 --> 00:17:00,660 like, when I was in house, or even now running a company that 327 00:17:00,660 --> 00:17:03,540 we're growing. We're growing, well, we doubled in the last 328 00:17:03,540 --> 00:17:07,500 year that that we also work with agencies for some of our 329 00:17:07,500 --> 00:17:10,080 marketing, right? Because I'm an SEO content guy, I'm not, I'm 330 00:17:10,080 --> 00:17:13,260 not an ADS guy. So we work with, you know, ads agencies, you 331 00:17:13,260 --> 00:17:15,420 know, to run our own advertising. And so I try to put 332 00:17:15,420 --> 00:17:18,600 myself in the mind of the buyer, as I'm going through my site and 333 00:17:18,600 --> 00:17:21,500 say, like, what is not clear here, right? What would keep 334 00:17:21,500 --> 00:17:26,720 someone from from converting on our site right, from contacting 335 00:17:26,720 --> 00:17:30,140 us and scheduling a call with my rep to, you know, so that we can 336 00:17:30,140 --> 00:17:32,420 kind of figure out what is they're looking for and get them 337 00:17:32,420 --> 00:17:35,360 introduced to the right people. What would keep them from doing 338 00:17:35,360 --> 00:17:37,760 that right, and then kind of putting together a list of 339 00:17:37,760 --> 00:17:41,260 hypotheses and then rolling them out, annotating analytics and 340 00:17:41,260 --> 00:17:44,020 seeing what happens to the numbers, right? If you, you 341 00:17:44,020 --> 00:17:46,720 know, if you, if you have a, if it's a big change, you know, you 342 00:17:46,720 --> 00:17:49,120 should probably try to AB test it, or figure out what's kind of 343 00:17:49,120 --> 00:17:51,400 a lightweight way that we can do it to make sure we're not going 344 00:17:51,400 --> 00:17:54,460 to, like, decimate our conversions, but kind of putting 345 00:17:54,460 --> 00:17:56,560 together that list of, like, what are the things that aren't 346 00:17:56,560 --> 00:17:59,140 clear here? Is it my hours of operation? Is it not clear on 347 00:17:59,140 --> 00:18:01,980 how to contact me? Am I making it hard to contact me and 348 00:18:01,980 --> 00:18:04,380 telling everybody to call me, but I'm only putting that phone 349 00:18:04,380 --> 00:18:07,440 number at the bottom of one page on my website, right? Like that 350 00:18:07,440 --> 00:18:10,140 kind of thing that right there. If you can fix that, you can 351 00:18:10,140 --> 00:18:12,720 make it easy to discover your contact form and send you an 352 00:18:12,720 --> 00:18:16,440 inquiry, right? Or, you know, a chat, you know, a chat bubble, 353 00:18:16,440 --> 00:18:18,840 or something like that. I hate chat bubbles on websites, by the 354 00:18:18,840 --> 00:18:22,160 way, like I find the conversations are just a waste 355 00:18:22,160 --> 00:18:25,100 of time, and the leads are all garbage. But like, if you don't 356 00:18:25,100 --> 00:18:27,380 have anything, you don't have a good way for people to contact 357 00:18:27,380 --> 00:18:30,080 you, making it easy for them to contact you. So putting yourself 358 00:18:30,080 --> 00:18:32,780 in that buyer mindset and looking at your own, you know, 359 00:18:32,780 --> 00:18:35,480 your own presence, especially like local business, as we said, 360 00:18:35,600 --> 00:18:38,060 look at your Yelp profile, look at your Google, my business, 361 00:18:38,060 --> 00:18:40,420 that kind of thing. Is it the right phone number? Is the right 362 00:18:40,420 --> 00:18:43,600 address? Are your hours of operation Correct? Is your your 363 00:18:43,600 --> 00:18:46,180 mask policy up to date, you know, like, like, that sort of 364 00:18:46,180 --> 00:18:50,380 thing, just making sure that that those questions that people 365 00:18:50,380 --> 00:18:52,900 are asking as they're considering contacting you or 366 00:18:52,900 --> 00:18:55,540 coming into your store or whatever, making sure all of 367 00:18:55,540 --> 00:18:58,300 that is taken care of, just getting those basics right 368 00:18:58,300 --> 00:19:01,620 before you start thinking about beacons and, you know, all that 369 00:19:01,620 --> 00:19:04,800 kind of thing, which honestly, is still years out, right? That 370 00:19:04,860 --> 00:19:07,620 technology is still years out from being affordable, you know, 371 00:19:07,620 --> 00:19:10,800 to the to the common business, if we're talking about kind of 372 00:19:10,800 --> 00:19:13,620 location based businesses. So that's where I would start 373 00:19:13,620 --> 00:19:15,120 today. And that's 374 00:19:15,120 --> 00:19:16,860 Robert Plank: cool, because when you're explaining that, what 375 00:19:16,860 --> 00:19:19,500 comes to mind is that there's like, there's the issue of, 376 00:19:19,680 --> 00:19:22,460 like, what are the bottlenecks? Like, could someone land on a 377 00:19:22,460 --> 00:19:26,840 page and then just, like, drop off there, and then there's also 378 00:19:26,840 --> 00:19:29,060 maybe, like, they think maybe they're on the right page, but 379 00:19:29,060 --> 00:19:31,460 they're, they're confused, like you said things about, like, 380 00:19:31,460 --> 00:19:34,700 mass policy. They're not sure if, like, the business is even 381 00:19:34,700 --> 00:19:39,200 open, or if things are are kind of, like, up to date there and 382 00:19:39,200 --> 00:19:41,620 and it seems like just the way that you you kind of like, 383 00:19:41,620 --> 00:19:44,560 explain this. It only takes a few minutes. It might, it might 384 00:19:44,560 --> 00:19:47,140 be a little awkward and painful, especially if you don't do this 385 00:19:47,140 --> 00:19:49,840 on a regular basis, but it just takes a few minutes to be that 386 00:19:49,840 --> 00:19:54,220 outsider and to be like, Okay, if I was, if I was a buyer, if I 387 00:19:54,220 --> 00:19:57,820 was looking to do this, if I was looking to book an appointment, 388 00:19:57,940 --> 00:20:03,000 like, Where would I naturally be? Be clicking and going and, I 389 00:20:03,000 --> 00:20:06,300 mean, and like, I mean, I've cringed so many times when I 390 00:20:06,300 --> 00:20:09,420 would go back to, like, an old website of mine and use maybe 391 00:20:09,420 --> 00:20:11,880 some kind of, like, third party, like, I don't know, like, 392 00:20:11,880 --> 00:20:14,400 appointment schedule or something and not and have like, 393 00:20:14,400 --> 00:20:18,300 old code and it doesn't work, or try out a contact form and, 394 00:20:18,300 --> 00:20:22,040 like, the capture won't work. Or I've like, my favorite is going 395 00:20:22,040 --> 00:20:26,540 to one of my opt in pages and re opting in with an address I know 396 00:20:26,540 --> 00:20:29,240 is already opted in. Because sometimes, like, if you don't 397 00:20:29,240 --> 00:20:32,240 have it set up right, there's an error, and you're like, I didn't 398 00:20:32,240 --> 00:20:34,760 know it was on your on your list, but I wanted to be on just 399 00:20:34,760 --> 00:20:37,400 to make sure. And you won't even let me do that. And now I'm just 400 00:20:37,400 --> 00:20:40,180 completely stuck. It's like, all all these little nooks and 401 00:20:40,180 --> 00:20:43,180 crannies. And you could drive yourself crazy, like, thinking 402 00:20:43,180 --> 00:20:45,760 about all the things to check for. But then I, like, I like, 403 00:20:45,760 --> 00:20:48,520 your thought process of, like, just take a few minutes and just 404 00:20:48,520 --> 00:20:51,280 go through and, like, kind of see what you see, and see what 405 00:20:51,280 --> 00:20:54,820 can be, like, tweaked and improved. And so this is a lot 406 00:20:54,820 --> 00:20:57,640 to think about, and it has me curious about, well, what is 407 00:20:57,760 --> 00:21:00,960 kind of the on the frontier for you? Like, like you said, think 408 00:21:00,960 --> 00:21:04,080 crazy things like beacons, the technology is not there yet. But 409 00:21:04,080 --> 00:21:07,260 what about in these next coming, like, weeks and months, 410 00:21:07,380 --> 00:21:11,760 hopefully, ideally recovering from a pandemic, things opening 411 00:21:11,760 --> 00:21:14,340 like, what has you excited moving forward? I think 412 00:21:16,080 --> 00:21:18,240 John Doherty: one of the things that I'm excited about moving 413 00:21:18,240 --> 00:21:23,240 forward is that I think we're gonna see companies like the 414 00:21:23,240 --> 00:21:25,640 good ones have stuck around. The good ones have even grown, 415 00:21:25,640 --> 00:21:27,980 right? Let's solid businesses, let me put it that way, have 416 00:21:27,980 --> 00:21:32,120 even, have even grown. And so I'm actually excited to see some 417 00:21:32,120 --> 00:21:35,240 of these companies that have gone through, you know, gone 418 00:21:35,240 --> 00:21:37,460 through the pandemic. They've weathered the storm, they've 419 00:21:37,460 --> 00:21:41,260 grown, you know, they're, they're sitting on a cash chest, 420 00:21:41,260 --> 00:21:44,260 right now, they're sitting on a war chest, right? And they're 421 00:21:44,260 --> 00:21:47,680 gonna start investing again into new channels, right? So they've 422 00:21:47,680 --> 00:21:50,560 been doing SEO, and SEO has converted really well for them, 423 00:21:50,740 --> 00:21:52,540 and it's been, you know, it's been good. And they're, you 424 00:21:52,540 --> 00:21:54,640 know, they've been spending good money on it. They maybe have a 425 00:21:54,640 --> 00:21:57,220 team. And now they're like, Okay, now, how do we invest back 426 00:21:57,220 --> 00:22:00,900 into the business, right? Like, can we, you know, can we get our 427 00:22:00,900 --> 00:22:04,680 Google Ads working? Can we get our Facebook ads working? And so 428 00:22:04,680 --> 00:22:07,500 I'm actually really excited to see companies starting to invest 429 00:22:07,500 --> 00:22:10,800 again, instead of saying, like, you know, investing in new 430 00:22:10,800 --> 00:22:14,820 things and trying new things, instead of just saying like, Oh, 431 00:22:14,820 --> 00:22:17,220 we just, you know, we need to watch the you know, we need to 432 00:22:17,220 --> 00:22:19,620 watch our spin super carefully, which, like everybody, every 433 00:22:19,620 --> 00:22:22,280 business should be watching their spin. But I'm excited to 434 00:22:22,280 --> 00:22:25,280 see, to see companies kind of, you know, trying new things and 435 00:22:25,280 --> 00:22:28,220 kind of getting new new programs off the ground again, which 436 00:22:28,280 --> 00:22:31,520 honestly Rob and if I could put this in there, I think this is a 437 00:22:31,520 --> 00:22:35,720 an area of opportunity for agencies like there. I found 438 00:22:35,720 --> 00:22:38,180 very few agencies out there. And if there are agencies out there 439 00:22:38,180 --> 00:22:42,940 that do this, hit me up, that are that bring on that, that 440 00:22:42,940 --> 00:22:46,060 bring on clients that are looking to get their Google Ads 441 00:22:46,060 --> 00:22:49,480 going, their Facebook ads going, right? Maybe they have 5k a 442 00:22:49,480 --> 00:22:51,760 month and spend or something like that, and haven't really 443 00:22:51,760 --> 00:22:54,100 done it before. There are very few agencies out there that I 444 00:22:54,100 --> 00:22:57,100 have found that are willing to take on clients, get their ads 445 00:22:57,100 --> 00:22:59,560 campaign set up, get their initial messaging, their initial 446 00:22:59,560 --> 00:23:02,160 creative kind of work in an iterative process to get it 447 00:23:02,160 --> 00:23:04,620 working for that client, and then scale it from there. So 448 00:23:04,620 --> 00:23:07,140 many agencies are like, we only take people that are spending at 449 00:23:07,140 --> 00:23:10,440 least $20,000 a month on advertising, which I get, and 450 00:23:10,440 --> 00:23:13,560 those are ideal. I'm not, I'm not gonna, you know, refute 451 00:23:13,560 --> 00:23:16,380 that, but there are a lot of people out there that have good 452 00:23:16,380 --> 00:23:19,560 money to spend these days that are just that just need someone 453 00:23:19,560 --> 00:23:22,880 to help them get it going. And so I think that's an opportunity 454 00:23:22,880 --> 00:23:25,940 for a lot of agencies out there these days, and to figure out, 455 00:23:26,120 --> 00:23:28,820 how could you make that work, right? Like, yeah, your ideal 456 00:23:28,820 --> 00:23:33,680 are the 20k 50k a month spent clients. But do you have someone 457 00:23:33,680 --> 00:23:36,560 internally that's really good at starting new ad campaigns and 458 00:23:36,560 --> 00:23:38,960 can get that off the ground, and then you can grow them up to 459 00:23:38,960 --> 00:23:42,340 that level, something we're thinking about. And 460 00:23:42,340 --> 00:23:43,960 Robert Plank: I like that thinking a lot of like, like, 461 00:23:43,960 --> 00:23:46,000 Where's the hole in the marketplace? And like, like, 462 00:23:46,000 --> 00:23:49,960 clearly, we all have an ideal vision for like, the kind of 463 00:23:49,960 --> 00:23:52,660 person we want. We like someone that would, you know, pay this 464 00:23:52,660 --> 00:23:56,320 and it's good to to look like, like a boutique kind of agency 465 00:23:56,320 --> 00:24:00,040 and say, like, well, we we limit ourselves, and we don't take 466 00:24:00,040 --> 00:24:02,880 these types of clients. We only take this type of person. But I 467 00:24:02,880 --> 00:24:06,900 like your way of thinking is, is there, is there a company that 468 00:24:06,900 --> 00:24:10,080 our client that's like, almost on the periphery there, that 469 00:24:10,080 --> 00:24:13,140 could be walked up to, that that's really interesting to 470 00:24:13,140 --> 00:24:17,220 think about, of like, what's the kind of the missing opportunity 471 00:24:17,220 --> 00:24:20,960 out there for a lot of agencies that are just kind of like, they 472 00:24:20,960 --> 00:24:23,420 could get there, right? And they could get them there. And so you 473 00:24:23,420 --> 00:24:26,960 say that you would like someone from this type of agency to 474 00:24:26,960 --> 00:24:32,480 contact you, someone who is kind of looking to, like, walk up a 475 00:24:32,960 --> 00:24:37,160 business to 20k a month ad spend. Is that right? Yeah, 476 00:24:37,520 --> 00:24:39,680 John Doherty: I just see a lot of we've seen a lot of people 477 00:24:39,680 --> 00:24:42,760 coming through credo that they're like, We have money to 478 00:24:42,760 --> 00:24:46,660 spend on advertising. We haven't done it before, and we need an 479 00:24:46,660 --> 00:24:50,740 agency to a help us out with establishing the strategy and 480 00:24:50,740 --> 00:24:54,340 then and then helping us operate it right, reporting, helping us 481 00:24:54,340 --> 00:24:57,340 see what, what's the return, optimizing it from there so we 482 00:24:57,340 --> 00:25:00,600 get into a good return and then we scale. But. Just so many 483 00:25:00,600 --> 00:25:02,640 agencies out there like, Nope, we need to already have an 484 00:25:02,640 --> 00:25:05,100 established thing. You need to be spending x amount, you know, 485 00:25:05,100 --> 00:25:08,280 per month already. And they don't even like touch the 486 00:25:08,280 --> 00:25:10,980 strategy side. So I think there's an opportunity there for 487 00:25:10,980 --> 00:25:14,220 someone to step in and say, You know what, we're great with 488 00:25:14,220 --> 00:25:18,720 helping with helping clients, you know, launch their figure 489 00:25:18,720 --> 00:25:21,020 out what their strategy should be, where should they be 490 00:25:21,020 --> 00:25:24,140 spending? What should they be spending? What should their 491 00:25:24,140 --> 00:25:27,020 messaging say? And then helping them launch that, and getting 492 00:25:27,020 --> 00:25:30,860 those initial numbers in, and then helping them grow? So it's 493 00:25:30,860 --> 00:25:33,920 just, it's a space that I see, there's a lot of opportunity, 494 00:25:33,920 --> 00:25:36,680 and we haven't found those people, excuse me, who are 495 00:25:36,680 --> 00:25:37,940 really good at that, yet 496 00:25:39,020 --> 00:25:41,020 Robert Plank: interesting. So you've given us a lot to think 497 00:25:41,020 --> 00:25:45,280 about. You've told us that we need to maybe look like, keep 498 00:25:45,280 --> 00:25:49,240 people on, on trend with the things that people are are 499 00:25:49,240 --> 00:25:52,780 looking for. We need to maybe look at, maybe even our own 500 00:25:52,780 --> 00:25:56,380 websites and see, well, what would a buyer be going through? 501 00:25:56,380 --> 00:25:58,900 Where do they get confused? Where they where do they get 502 00:25:58,900 --> 00:26:02,220 stuck? And then maybe even consider this, like blue ocean 503 00:26:02,220 --> 00:26:05,640 kind of thinking, where, instead of going after the same clients, 504 00:26:05,640 --> 00:26:10,080 look at, is there someone new that could get to where we want 505 00:26:10,080 --> 00:26:13,320 them to go, instead of having to go to the rigama role of they're 506 00:26:13,320 --> 00:26:16,920 unhappy with their last agency, and now you have to, like, undo 507 00:26:16,920 --> 00:26:19,860 a lot of things, or to unlearn some things, or fix someone 508 00:26:19,860 --> 00:26:22,640 else's work and then get this new thing figured out. And it 509 00:26:22,640 --> 00:26:24,920 might be that by the time we get them up and running, maybe 510 00:26:24,920 --> 00:26:27,500 they'll be unhappy with you and jump ship instead of all that 511 00:26:27,500 --> 00:26:31,460 rigmarole, maybe walk someone up to where we want them to get to. 512 00:26:31,520 --> 00:26:35,180 Is there anything that you think that we all need to be paying 513 00:26:35,180 --> 00:26:37,940 attention to in these last few minutes like that? Maybe we left 514 00:26:37,940 --> 00:26:40,720 out we talked about all these things. Does any like final 515 00:26:40,780 --> 00:26:43,420 point, or any final piece of advice come to mind. 516 00:26:45,220 --> 00:26:48,220 John Doherty: So I think what one thing to think about that 517 00:26:48,220 --> 00:26:50,800 I've recently been dealing with, with some agencies and some 518 00:26:50,800 --> 00:26:52,900 clients, is there are, you know, there are people out there that 519 00:26:52,900 --> 00:26:56,320 they're saying, you know, I need to do, I need to do SEO. We've 520 00:26:56,320 --> 00:26:58,840 been doing it, you know, for a while, and I have, you know, X 521 00:26:58,840 --> 00:27:03,060 budget per month, right? I've carved out $3,000 a month, and 522 00:27:03,060 --> 00:27:05,040 the agency looks at it and they're like, Well, ideally, 523 00:27:05,040 --> 00:27:07,980 you'd be spending six right, in order to, you know, capitalize 524 00:27:08,040 --> 00:27:10,560 on this opportunity. And the client's like, I just, I don't 525 00:27:10,560 --> 00:27:13,320 have that right? My budget is half of that. And what a lot of 526 00:27:13,320 --> 00:27:17,400 agencies do is just say, like, I'm not gonna, you know, I'm 527 00:27:17,400 --> 00:27:19,680 just gonna say they're not qualified and we're not going to 528 00:27:19,680 --> 00:27:24,500 take them on. But what I would encourage both, the kind of the 529 00:27:24,500 --> 00:27:27,080 mindset that I encourage both sides of the market to get into 530 00:27:27,080 --> 00:27:30,020 is, if you're a buyer, and you know you're you've got 3k a 531 00:27:30,020 --> 00:27:33,560 month to spend, agencies telling you six. You can't get $6,000 532 00:27:34,460 --> 00:27:37,820 worth of work for 3000 right? But you can get so you can't 533 00:27:37,820 --> 00:27:41,020 get, you know, if you want, if this, if you can see results in 534 00:27:41,080 --> 00:27:44,680 six months time. With 6000 it's going to take you 12 months time 535 00:27:44,680 --> 00:27:49,360 to see results with 3000 so being willing to elongate the 536 00:27:49,360 --> 00:27:52,780 project time, just recognizing that like if you can spend more, 537 00:27:52,780 --> 00:27:55,240 you can see results faster. If you can't spend more than it's 538 00:27:55,240 --> 00:27:57,760 going to take longer to see results. Same thing for an 539 00:27:57,760 --> 00:28:00,280 agency, if the client comes to you, they can spend three grand 540 00:28:00,280 --> 00:28:02,400 a month, right? And you're willing to take on clients at 541 00:28:02,400 --> 00:28:04,920 that level. Data is daily. Spin six, help them out with 542 00:28:04,920 --> 00:28:07,320 understanding that, like, hey, you know, we can get you the 543 00:28:07,320 --> 00:28:09,780 results. It's just going to take longer, right? It's going to 544 00:28:09,780 --> 00:28:12,600 it's going to take 12 months time, you know, to get it done. 545 00:28:13,320 --> 00:28:16,860 And on the agency side, not giving $6,000 with a value for 546 00:28:16,860 --> 00:28:19,620 only $3,000 right? Give people what it is that they're paying 547 00:28:19,620 --> 00:28:24,020 for. So I think we need to kind of get into that mindset of, you 548 00:28:24,020 --> 00:28:26,840 know, there's, there's the good, fast, cheap, you know, triangle. 549 00:28:26,840 --> 00:28:29,540 If you want good and cheap, it's not going to be fast, but good 550 00:28:29,540 --> 00:28:32,600 and fast, it's not going to be cheap. So I think it's 551 00:28:32,600 --> 00:28:37,280 worthwhile to think through that from both sides. You know, when 552 00:28:37,280 --> 00:28:39,560 looking, when a company is looking to engage with an 553 00:28:39,560 --> 00:28:42,040 agency, when an agency when the agency's thinking about bringing 554 00:28:42,040 --> 00:28:42,220 on a 555 00:28:43,240 --> 00:28:44,980 Robert Plank: client, yeah, that's that's interesting to 556 00:28:44,980 --> 00:28:49,660 think about is, is how to have that, that wiggle room from from 557 00:28:49,660 --> 00:28:53,080 either the buyer or the seller, without compromising, without 558 00:28:53,080 --> 00:28:55,720 saying that, Oh, well, now I'm just discounting my prices as 559 00:28:55,720 --> 00:29:00,100 50% or now I'm spending money that I don't have in the budget. 560 00:29:00,220 --> 00:29:03,180 If you think about that time factor, that's really 561 00:29:03,180 --> 00:29:05,940 interesting to think about that it's kind of like more of, like 562 00:29:05,940 --> 00:29:10,680 a slow burn versus a like a faster rush delivery. That's 563 00:29:10,680 --> 00:29:13,080 like, kind of a cool, outside the box way of thinking. So that 564 00:29:13,080 --> 00:29:16,260 way, that way, you're not turning down work as an agency, 565 00:29:16,260 --> 00:29:20,360 but you're not missing out on these services as a client. And 566 00:29:20,360 --> 00:29:24,080 so, man, there's so much for us to think about, and especially 567 00:29:24,080 --> 00:29:26,960 that agencies need to have their day in case studies, because 568 00:29:26,960 --> 00:29:30,440 they're really missing out. And if people are out there in 569 00:29:30,440 --> 00:29:35,540 podcast land and listening and worrying about, maybe worrying 570 00:29:35,540 --> 00:29:38,840 that their business might not be the best it can be, might be, I 571 00:29:38,840 --> 00:29:40,960 don't know, eventually, like going on the downhill, or they 572 00:29:40,960 --> 00:29:44,080 just need to be tapped into the latest and greatest things they 573 00:29:44,080 --> 00:29:48,040 need to be doing. How do they contact you? How do they keep up 574 00:29:48,040 --> 00:29:50,560 to date with Credo? Where should people be going after listening 575 00:29:50,560 --> 00:29:52,300 to our conversation? Yes, 576 00:29:52,300 --> 00:29:54,880 John Doherty: our website is as you outlined at the start. Get 577 00:29:54,880 --> 00:29:59,920 credo.com G, E, T, C, R, E, D, o.com, we call ourselves credo. 578 00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:03,000 So that's where you can go if you're looking to hire an 579 00:30:03,000 --> 00:30:06,420 agency. We also have a very active blog where we're talking 580 00:30:06,420 --> 00:30:09,000 about, you know, things going on in digital marketing, talking 581 00:30:09,000 --> 00:30:10,980 about, you know, if you're a beauty SaaS company, how to 582 00:30:10,980 --> 00:30:13,440 optimize your website, grow your business, your SEO. You know, 583 00:30:13,740 --> 00:30:16,200 you're an E commerce company, and you're, you're getting on 584 00:30:16,200 --> 00:30:19,080 Amazon. How do you find Amazon? Keyword research, that keyword 585 00:30:19,080 --> 00:30:21,800 data, that kind of thing like these are sorts of topics that 586 00:30:21,800 --> 00:30:24,140 we've written about recently, and we're writing about ongoing 587 00:30:24,140 --> 00:30:26,960 so check us out there. If you want to follow me personally, 588 00:30:26,960 --> 00:30:30,800 you can follow me on Twitter at dirty J, F, D, O, H, E, R t, y, 589 00:30:30,800 --> 00:30:33,860 j, F, and if you're an agency out there that does phenomenal 590 00:30:33,860 --> 00:30:36,800 strategy work and you love getting new ad campaigns off the 591 00:30:36,800 --> 00:30:40,040 ground. Johnny getcreator.com that's my direct inbox. I'd love 592 00:30:40,040 --> 00:30:40,720 to speak with you. 593 00:30:41,500 --> 00:30:43,960 Robert Plank: Fantastic. So So you hear that you need to 594 00:30:43,960 --> 00:30:46,120 contact John immediately, if not sooner. That is 595 00:30:46,120 --> 00:30:50,380 john@getcredo.com and get credo.com. Is the website, and 596 00:30:50,380 --> 00:30:54,100 thanks John for stopping by and just giving us so many things to 597 00:30:54,100 --> 00:30:57,700 think about. And not even like a like a laundry list, but like 598 00:30:57,700 --> 00:31:01,800 things in terms of like strategy, as far as, like, the 599 00:31:01,800 --> 00:31:05,760 thought process. And so this way, when things change in the 600 00:31:05,760 --> 00:31:08,520 marketplace, which like, like we said that it's only going to get 601 00:31:08,520 --> 00:31:11,100 faster, at least we have the foundation and the thought 602 00:31:11,100 --> 00:31:14,520 process, then we'll know how to attack these problems moving 603 00:31:14,520 --> 00:31:17,160 forward. So I really appreciate it. Really appreciate you, and 604 00:31:17,160 --> 00:31:20,840 everyone will see you at get credo.com and thank you, John, 605 00:31:21,500 --> 00:31:22,640 John Doherty: you're welcome. Thanks, Rob, you.