1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:01,260 Unknown: About it. Let's do it. 2 00:00:02,820 --> 00:00:04,860 Robert Plank: Hey everyone, and welcome back to the marketer of 3 00:00:04,860 --> 00:00:08,280 the day podcast. We're here with Chris Mercer, where you can call 4 00:00:08,280 --> 00:00:11,820 him vice nickname Mercer. He is from measurement marketing.io 5 00:00:13,080 --> 00:00:17,100 and he is a sought after measurement marketing expert. He 6 00:00:17,100 --> 00:00:20,480 and his team have been helping marketers, marketing teams and 7 00:00:20,480 --> 00:00:24,620 agencies know, trust and grow their numbers using tools like 8 00:00:24,620 --> 00:00:28,280 Google Tag Manager, Google Analytics, creating useful 9 00:00:28,280 --> 00:00:31,880 dashboards and pulling actionable insights from what's 10 00:00:31,880 --> 00:00:35,240 being measured to begin forecasting and optimizing 11 00:00:35,240 --> 00:00:38,540 future results. Sounds amazing. Sounds exciting. Chris, glad to 12 00:00:38,540 --> 00:00:39,200 be talking to you. 13 00:00:39,320 --> 00:00:41,260 Chris Mercer: Man, happy to be here. Appreciate having you, 14 00:00:41,620 --> 00:00:43,900 Robert Plank: Robert, and I'm happy to have you. And so, I 15 00:00:43,900 --> 00:00:47,380 mean, you're the the star of the show. You're the guest of honor, 16 00:00:47,380 --> 00:00:50,620 the man, the myth, the legend. So as far as what you were you 17 00:00:50,620 --> 00:00:53,140 want to go, what you want to talk about, what has you 18 00:00:53,200 --> 00:00:56,320 passionate fired up the last six or 12 months? What's the latest 19 00:00:56,320 --> 00:00:56,680 scoop? 20 00:00:57,160 --> 00:00:59,080 Chris Mercer: You know, this is definitely going to be self 21 00:00:59,080 --> 00:01:02,160 serving, but it is. It is measurement now more than ever, 22 00:01:02,160 --> 00:01:05,700 it really is, and it's because of things like iOS. It's things 23 00:01:05,700 --> 00:01:08,160 like what Safari is doing. It's things like what Google Chrome 24 00:01:08,160 --> 00:01:11,640 is doing, where as marketers, our job is to figure out kind of 25 00:01:11,640 --> 00:01:14,100 what our numbers are and what's working, what's not in our 26 00:01:14,100 --> 00:01:16,860 marketing messaging and being able to adjust and grow those 27 00:01:16,860 --> 00:01:19,440 messages and everything else. And I think that the tendency 28 00:01:19,440 --> 00:01:23,600 has been in the past is that you rely on the tool to do the heavy 29 00:01:23,600 --> 00:01:26,300 lifting. You rely on the tool to do the work. So it was like, 30 00:01:26,300 --> 00:01:28,940 well, we got to learn analytics, because once we learn how to set 31 00:01:28,940 --> 00:01:31,220 goals and analytics, then everything magically will 32 00:01:31,220 --> 00:01:33,860 appear. Or, you know, we got to learn this push button, simple 33 00:01:33,860 --> 00:01:36,320 platform, because then all of a sudden, magically, things are 34 00:01:36,320 --> 00:01:38,840 going to appear. And that's just never really happened. And 35 00:01:38,840 --> 00:01:42,820 what's starting to really, come to the forefront is this idea 36 00:01:42,880 --> 00:01:45,400 of, Okay, forget about the tool like, yes, you're going to use 37 00:01:45,400 --> 00:01:48,040 analytics. Yes, you're going to use Tag Manager, Data Studio, or 38 00:01:48,040 --> 00:01:50,800 whatever else it's you've got to understand measurement, and 39 00:01:50,800 --> 00:01:53,260 you've got to rethink the strategy from a company 40 00:01:53,260 --> 00:01:55,720 standpoint, from a brand standpoint, from a marketing 41 00:01:55,720 --> 00:01:59,740 team standpoint, you've got to rethink your strategy of how you 42 00:01:59,740 --> 00:02:02,400 measure to see what's working and what's not. That's what's 43 00:02:02,400 --> 00:02:03,300 got me most excited. 44 00:02:04,080 --> 00:02:06,300 Robert Plank: And so when you say, like, measurement, are we? 45 00:02:06,360 --> 00:02:09,180 Are you saying that like people may be they like measure the 46 00:02:09,180 --> 00:02:12,000 wrong thing. They look at, like, the wrong metrics or like. So 47 00:02:12,000 --> 00:02:14,160 when you say, we need to have better measurement, like, what 48 00:02:14,160 --> 00:02:16,860 does it look like to not have it? What does it look like to 49 00:02:16,860 --> 00:02:17,400 have it? It's 50 00:02:17,820 --> 00:02:19,620 Chris Mercer: a really great question. It's really a matter 51 00:02:19,620 --> 00:02:23,960 of where measurement is in the process, typically, what's 52 00:02:23,960 --> 00:02:27,920 happened in the past is somebody will build a site, a sales 53 00:02:27,920 --> 00:02:30,920 funnel, a customer journey, whatever the thing is. Then they 54 00:02:30,920 --> 00:02:32,840 send a bunch of traffic. However, they do that through 55 00:02:32,840 --> 00:02:36,800 paid traffic, email, SEO, whatever. Then they bring in 56 00:02:36,800 --> 00:02:39,320 marketing, or, sorry excuse me, they bring in measurements, and 57 00:02:39,320 --> 00:02:41,660 they say, Hey, measurement people, what happened all that 58 00:02:41,660 --> 00:02:43,360 money? What happened all that effort? Happened all that 59 00:02:43,360 --> 00:02:46,960 effort? What's going on? How are people using our site? How are 60 00:02:46,960 --> 00:02:49,840 people using the block? Right? All of those sort of questions. 61 00:02:49,840 --> 00:02:52,360 And of course, measurement answers with like, I don't know. 62 00:02:52,360 --> 00:02:54,700 We weren't. We just found out you guys even wanted to know 63 00:02:54,700 --> 00:02:56,860 that stuff. So now we have to figure out how to measure for 64 00:02:56,860 --> 00:02:59,920 it. And measurements always been an afterthought, because it's 65 00:02:59,920 --> 00:03:02,880 like, Oh, we got to figure out how if this ad spend is proving 66 00:03:02,880 --> 00:03:06,180 ROI or OS or whatever else, right? So what's what's starting 67 00:03:06,180 --> 00:03:09,600 to happen is this sort of the before days now. What's starting 68 00:03:09,600 --> 00:03:12,240 to happen is measurement is being thought of as, okay, you 69 00:03:12,240 --> 00:03:15,540 know what? This isn't just a project. It's not about setting 70 00:03:15,540 --> 00:03:18,180 up goals in Google Analytics or something like that. It's about 71 00:03:18,180 --> 00:03:21,140 having measurement not be such a project. It's more of a 72 00:03:21,140 --> 00:03:24,020 department in an organization, and that measurement is brought 73 00:03:24,020 --> 00:03:28,040 to the front of the table, meaning when we start planning 74 00:03:28,040 --> 00:03:30,500 our customer journeys, when we start planning the website, when 75 00:03:30,500 --> 00:03:32,840 we start planning the sections of whatever it is that we're 76 00:03:32,840 --> 00:03:35,660 building, measurements brought to the table in that planning 77 00:03:35,660 --> 00:03:38,120 process. So now it's okay. We're going to work with the marketing 78 00:03:38,120 --> 00:03:41,140 and the strategy team to figure out what the customer journey is 79 00:03:41,140 --> 00:03:43,720 going to look like, we're going to work with our dev team as far 80 00:03:43,720 --> 00:03:46,360 as the tech stack and how it's going to be put together at the 81 00:03:46,360 --> 00:03:49,240 same time measurements brought into the conversation to say, 82 00:03:49,240 --> 00:03:52,240 Okay, how are we going to know that this website, that this 83 00:03:52,240 --> 00:03:54,700 customer journey is working in the way that it's supposed to be 84 00:03:54,700 --> 00:03:57,520 working, and all of that's happening now up front, or 85 00:03:57,520 --> 00:04:00,220 starting to at least, that's the biggest trend that's starting to 86 00:04:00,280 --> 00:04:02,580 happen Now, as opposed to kind of being an afterthought, 87 00:04:03,780 --> 00:04:06,000 Robert Plank: interesting, yes, as opposed to, like, afterwards 88 00:04:06,000 --> 00:04:08,400 saying, Okay, well, let's try to clean up this mess, or let's try 89 00:04:08,400 --> 00:04:11,820 to make sense of this. And so I don't know if you've noticed 90 00:04:11,820 --> 00:04:15,900 this, but I feel like it's, it's way more common than it should 91 00:04:15,900 --> 00:04:18,960 be, as far as people not really knowing. They don't know their 92 00:04:18,960 --> 00:04:21,860 numbers to begin with, but they don't know, like, what are, what 93 00:04:21,860 --> 00:04:25,280 are good numbers or bad numbers? And I don't hear things like, I 94 00:04:25,280 --> 00:04:28,700 sent 60 clicks to my website. Why didn't I get a conversion? 95 00:04:28,700 --> 00:04:31,100 I'm like, Well, you got to do more than that, or those things 96 00:04:31,100 --> 00:04:35,480 like, well, I promoted a webinar to a list of 500 people. I only 97 00:04:35,480 --> 00:04:38,960 got 20 showing up. And I'm like, Well, hey, like, your number 98 00:04:38,960 --> 00:04:42,700 might be me good based on the starting number, but it just, it 99 00:04:42,700 --> 00:04:48,220 amazes me how just how little awareness there is on just what 100 00:04:48,220 --> 00:04:51,580 they're even just simple numbers are, right? Like, yeah, simple 101 00:04:51,580 --> 00:04:54,700 conversion rate or time on a page, or number of clicks, just 102 00:04:54,700 --> 00:04:58,420 like, really simple stuff. And then I even find myself just 103 00:04:58,420 --> 00:05:01,440 really, it like hurts my. Brain, I feel like I'm like, pushing 104 00:05:01,440 --> 00:05:04,920 through mud to even, like, think about a lot of these numbers and 105 00:05:04,920 --> 00:05:07,920 a lot of this, like, techie stuff. So have you noticed that? 106 00:05:07,920 --> 00:05:10,260 Or can you kind of, like, speak to that, or, like, give us any 107 00:05:10,260 --> 00:05:14,400 advice about, like, number one, like, what kind of like numbers, 108 00:05:14,400 --> 00:05:16,680 or what kind of things should we be paying attention to? And 109 00:05:16,680 --> 00:05:19,800 number two, how the heck can we get our heads wrapped around 110 00:05:19,800 --> 00:05:22,340 this and getting excited, because, like, even if someone 111 00:05:22,340 --> 00:05:25,160 comes in as a team, it we still need to, like, deal with with 112 00:05:25,160 --> 00:05:27,980 these issues. And sometimes it hurts the brain to think too 113 00:05:27,980 --> 00:05:30,380 much about math and numbers. So I mean, what do you think about 114 00:05:30,380 --> 00:05:30,860 all that? 115 00:05:31,280 --> 00:05:33,680 Chris Mercer: It's a really great question. So I the way 116 00:05:33,680 --> 00:05:37,220 that I personally think about this is you, I think it's, it's 117 00:05:37,220 --> 00:05:40,720 not so much that you don't know the numbers, because everyone 118 00:05:40,720 --> 00:05:43,660 has this, this innate, sort of gut reaction of like, Okay, I 119 00:05:43,660 --> 00:05:46,960 gotta know my numbers. Everybody believes that. Then it's like, 120 00:05:46,960 --> 00:05:49,720 okay, well, what numbers are important? Or another way is, is 121 00:05:49,720 --> 00:05:52,120 asking this is saying what questions are important for me 122 00:05:52,120 --> 00:05:55,000 to ask, right? So then what people do is they Google that 123 00:05:55,000 --> 00:05:57,520 like, Oh, I'm an e commerce Store. So what, what numbers 124 00:05:57,520 --> 00:05:59,620 should I be measuring? What are the seven most important 125 00:05:59,620 --> 00:06:03,420 numbers? There's a million blog posts that will tell you seven 126 00:06:03,420 --> 00:06:05,940 important numbers, and half of them agree and half of them 127 00:06:05,940 --> 00:06:08,340 don't, and you end up with 1000s of different numbers, which 128 00:06:08,340 --> 00:06:10,320 means, essentially, it's meaningless, right? It's just 129 00:06:10,320 --> 00:06:12,360 too much. There's too many numbers out. There's too many 130 00:06:12,360 --> 00:06:14,940 different ways of looking at stuff. And so what I personally 131 00:06:15,060 --> 00:06:17,940 recommend when we're working and training with our students is 132 00:06:17,940 --> 00:06:21,080 not to think about, Okay, let's go find ROI or ROAs or whatever 133 00:06:21,080 --> 00:06:23,600 the latest blog post said that you're supposed to do. It's you 134 00:06:23,600 --> 00:06:26,180 think about it in a higher level strategy, right? Think about in 135 00:06:26,180 --> 00:06:28,820 a framework and a strategy perspective. So you think about 136 00:06:28,820 --> 00:06:32,180 answering the questions, what results Am I getting? How am I 137 00:06:32,180 --> 00:06:34,520 getting those results? That's all you got to know. That's it. 138 00:06:34,520 --> 00:06:36,920 It really is. Every question you ever ask will be one of those 139 00:06:36,920 --> 00:06:39,200 two. It's either what results Am I getting, or how am I going to 140 00:06:39,200 --> 00:06:42,160 result? So going back to your Webinar Example, it's okay, we 141 00:06:42,160 --> 00:06:44,920 had 500 we ended up with 20. Like, I don't think anything's 142 00:06:44,920 --> 00:06:47,140 working. It's like, well, let's go see if it is right. Because 143 00:06:47,140 --> 00:06:49,600 it because that that knowing what your results are is one 144 00:06:49,600 --> 00:06:53,020 thing. In other words, I got 20 sales. Okay, but how did I get 145 00:06:53,020 --> 00:06:57,460 those 20 sales? Was it because I had 500 registrants, 20 people 146 00:06:57,460 --> 00:07:00,720 showed up, 20 people saw the lander, and 20 people bought. 147 00:07:01,200 --> 00:07:04,080 Okay, well, in that case, that one part of the webinar works 148 00:07:04,080 --> 00:07:06,180 really, really well, but you have a problem with your show 149 00:07:06,180 --> 00:07:09,720 rate. Let's go focus on that. Was it 500 registered, 100 150 00:07:10,140 --> 00:07:13,020 showed, and then 20 went to the page, and then all 20 bought. 151 00:07:13,020 --> 00:07:15,960 Okay, pretty good, but we got to get better at the pitch on the 152 00:07:15,960 --> 00:07:18,960 webinar to get more people to go to the page. Was it 500 153 00:07:19,380 --> 00:07:24,200 registered, 200 showed, 100 went to the page, and only 20 bought 154 00:07:24,440 --> 00:07:27,140 right? It's like so when you understand not only what your 155 00:07:27,140 --> 00:07:29,540 results are, but how you're getting those results, that's 156 00:07:29,540 --> 00:07:31,640 where the secret sauce is, because that's how you 157 00:07:31,640 --> 00:07:35,420 understand your marketing machinery and how it works. And 158 00:07:35,420 --> 00:07:38,240 this kind of goes back to that, that when we talk about strategy 159 00:07:38,240 --> 00:07:41,500 and framework, the biggest tip, the biggest if somebody wanted 160 00:07:41,500 --> 00:07:43,720 to say, Okay, if there's one belief that I would need to 161 00:07:43,720 --> 00:07:48,220 adjust or or adopt to really skyrocket, what the results are 162 00:07:48,220 --> 00:07:50,860 that I'm getting from my marketing in general is stop 163 00:07:50,860 --> 00:07:52,720 asking the question, what happened? Which is what 164 00:07:52,720 --> 00:07:55,000 everybody does? Which I get? I did the same thing when I first 165 00:07:55,000 --> 00:07:57,400 started out. Was like, Oh, what happened all that money I spent? 166 00:07:57,400 --> 00:07:59,620 What happened to all those emails I sent? What happened to 167 00:07:59,620 --> 00:08:01,900 the SEO stuff that we're doing? What happened all the people 168 00:08:01,900 --> 00:08:04,500 coming in from organic? Coming in from organic or whatever the 169 00:08:04,740 --> 00:08:07,380 thing is you're looking for? Instead you go, here's what's 170 00:08:07,380 --> 00:08:11,460 supposed to happen. Did that happen? So here's instead of 171 00:08:11,460 --> 00:08:13,680 going, Okay, what happened with the webinar, which is where 172 00:08:13,680 --> 00:08:16,200 everybody starts, you go, the new way of doing it is you start 173 00:08:16,200 --> 00:08:18,960 thinking, Okay, here's how the webinar was supposed to work. I 174 00:08:18,960 --> 00:08:22,460 was supposed to have a 30% registration rate of the people 175 00:08:22,460 --> 00:08:25,940 that registered. I was supposed to have between 25 and 30% show 176 00:08:25,940 --> 00:08:29,360 up. Of those people who showed up, 15 or 20% were supposed to 177 00:08:29,360 --> 00:08:31,760 go to the sales page. Of those people who went to the sales 178 00:08:31,760 --> 00:08:34,040 page, half of them was supposed to go to the cart. And other 179 00:08:34,040 --> 00:08:36,260 people who went to the cart, half of them should buy for this 180 00:08:36,260 --> 00:08:39,260 amount, therefore generating this much revenue. And you 181 00:08:39,260 --> 00:08:42,380 measure for all that. And then you go back to your webinar, and 182 00:08:42,380 --> 00:08:44,440 you say, Okay, now results did we get, we'll know how we got 183 00:08:44,440 --> 00:08:46,960 the results. And we're basically answering the question, did this 184 00:08:46,960 --> 00:08:49,360 thing work? Like it was supposed to, like it was intended to, 185 00:08:49,360 --> 00:08:52,300 like we planned for it to. And then what will happen is, when 186 00:08:52,300 --> 00:08:54,760 you're measuring like that, there's no drama. You don't have 187 00:08:54,760 --> 00:08:56,920 to think about, oh, is the headline off? Was the webinar 188 00:08:56,920 --> 00:08:59,200 off? Was the pitch off? Was the sales off whatever you don't you 189 00:08:59,200 --> 00:09:01,360 don't have any of that drama, because you're going to see in 190 00:09:01,360 --> 00:09:04,380 the numbers that it was either worked perfectly, in which case 191 00:09:04,380 --> 00:09:07,200 the answer is, get more webinar people and start scaling that 192 00:09:07,200 --> 00:09:11,280 webinar traffic, or it'll say, hey, they, they, they showed up, 193 00:09:11,640 --> 00:09:13,860 they went to the page, just didn't go to the cart. You're 194 00:09:13,860 --> 00:09:15,660 like, Okay, we lost them somewhere in the offer. They 195 00:09:15,660 --> 00:09:18,300 offers the problem, and that's where you focus, you know, so, 196 00:09:18,300 --> 00:09:20,900 so, and that's what I love about numbers in general is because 197 00:09:20,900 --> 00:09:24,620 when you measure for it, you're literally asking the market for 198 00:09:24,620 --> 00:09:27,020 their side of a conversation, right? And you're saying, hey, 199 00:09:27,020 --> 00:09:29,360 what do you think about this? And they will tell you they will 200 00:09:29,360 --> 00:09:32,300 never lie, and they will never be coy, and it'll never be a 201 00:09:32,300 --> 00:09:35,180 gray area answer. It'll be a black or white yes or no, thumbs 202 00:09:35,180 --> 00:09:38,540 up, thumbs down, type of answer. It's very binary. And so when 203 00:09:38,540 --> 00:09:40,720 you go to them, if you're not sure how the market's 204 00:09:40,720 --> 00:09:43,240 responding, it's because you're not asking the right questions. 205 00:09:43,240 --> 00:09:45,640 So you just ask a more specific question. The answer could say, 206 00:09:45,640 --> 00:09:47,560 Yeah, I showed up for the webinar, which means I was 207 00:09:47,560 --> 00:09:50,440 interested in your content, but I didn't go to your sales page, 208 00:09:50,440 --> 00:09:52,780 which means I didn't really care that much about what you were 209 00:09:52,780 --> 00:09:55,420 pitching. So we have to figure out, okay, when the webinar we 210 00:09:55,420 --> 00:09:58,720 got to maybe change the problem that we're focusing on a little 211 00:09:58,720 --> 00:10:01,080 bit, or change the solution. Pitch in a different way, but 212 00:10:01,080 --> 00:10:03,540 it's on the webinar. It's not on the sales page, because who 213 00:10:03,540 --> 00:10:05,700 cares. And I even seen that, you know, so that, if that makes 214 00:10:05,700 --> 00:10:07,740 sense, but that's the idea, is you got to know what your 215 00:10:07,740 --> 00:10:10,140 results are. You got to know how you're getting your results. And 216 00:10:10,140 --> 00:10:12,600 measurement helps you, you know. And of course, the free tools 217 00:10:12,600 --> 00:10:15,120 like analytics and everything else out there will help 218 00:10:15,120 --> 00:10:16,920 Robert Plank: you to do that. And, and, I mean, yeah, I mean, 219 00:10:16,920 --> 00:10:19,500 there's like, 20 things right in there just to just think about 220 00:10:19,500 --> 00:10:22,220 and unpack. And, like, when you were explaining that what was 221 00:10:22,220 --> 00:10:25,400 going through, my imagination were, like, lots of, like, boxes 222 00:10:25,400 --> 00:10:28,880 connected by lines and just being like, okay, like, Here, 223 00:10:28,940 --> 00:10:31,880 here's the here's the sales letter, here's the the webinar, 224 00:10:31,880 --> 00:10:35,240 here's the the follow up, here's the, you know, the the email 225 00:10:35,240 --> 00:10:37,760 sequence, here's the abandoned cart, or whatever you end up 226 00:10:37,760 --> 00:10:40,280 drawing in. And I think you're tapping into something where, 227 00:10:40,280 --> 00:10:43,900 like, it's so sometimes the numbers can become exciting and 228 00:10:43,900 --> 00:10:46,540 like numbers in any sense, like, sometimes, like, when, if your 229 00:10:46,540 --> 00:10:49,960 accountant, like takes your income and like does this and 230 00:10:50,020 --> 00:10:53,200 like minimizes that and puts it in that bucket. Sometimes by 231 00:10:53,200 --> 00:10:56,620 like, turning, turning the numbers into, like, a fun, 232 00:10:56,620 --> 00:10:59,980 almost like piece of artwork, or like a diagram, it kind of makes 233 00:10:59,980 --> 00:11:02,580 it, makes it come alive, and you, like, transform it into 234 00:11:02,580 --> 00:11:04,620 something else. And so it's like, the way you were 235 00:11:04,620 --> 00:11:07,020 explaining there. You're like, well, there's, like, the wrong 236 00:11:07,020 --> 00:11:09,120 way to do it and the right way to do it right. And the right 237 00:11:09,120 --> 00:11:11,460 way is the way you were just explaining, but like, the wrong 238 00:11:11,460 --> 00:11:14,640 way is kind of the it's like, negative, it's kind of all or 239 00:11:14,640 --> 00:11:17,040 nothing. It's like, okay, everything is great, but this 240 00:11:17,040 --> 00:11:19,980 one week link, and it's all over with. It's all gone for and I 241 00:11:19,980 --> 00:11:22,400 like your strategy, where you say, well, here's what we're 242 00:11:22,400 --> 00:11:26,180 expecting, here's the plan, and then you just compare the plan 243 00:11:26,300 --> 00:11:29,480 with reality. And then you can look at, okay, like, where's the 244 00:11:29,480 --> 00:11:32,420 weak point based on that. But instead of saying it all sucked, 245 00:11:32,420 --> 00:11:35,840 or or second guessing, you're saying, well, all this matches 246 00:11:35,840 --> 00:11:39,140 up, except for this one piece. Now here's the one piece to fix. 247 00:11:39,140 --> 00:11:43,240 And then, like I said, try again, and then if it does well, 248 00:11:43,240 --> 00:11:46,420 or does it as expected, then you pour more gasoline on the fire, 249 00:11:46,420 --> 00:11:50,380 repeat the process. So that's a much more sort of logical way of 250 00:11:50,380 --> 00:11:54,220 thinking about and so to help us understand all this, like, I'm 251 00:11:54,220 --> 00:11:57,580 sure you have some really crazy or fun before and after kind of 252 00:11:57,580 --> 00:12:00,040 stories, right? Some case studies, success stories. 253 00:12:00,040 --> 00:12:02,400 There's like, a million words for it, where you jumped in and, 254 00:12:02,400 --> 00:12:04,800 like, worked your magic in some of this, because it's all it's 255 00:12:04,800 --> 00:12:07,320 all good to talk about, you know, tools and like, like, what 256 00:12:07,320 --> 00:12:09,600 if some scenarios, but what if, like, about something, like, 257 00:12:09,600 --> 00:12:13,260 really fun that happened. So do any fun stories like that come 258 00:12:13,260 --> 00:12:14,400 to mind? Yeah, I'll 259 00:12:14,400 --> 00:12:16,740 Chris Mercer: give you two from first part examples. This is 260 00:12:16,740 --> 00:12:19,080 with our own products. Our flagship product is called the 261 00:12:19,080 --> 00:12:21,800 measurement Marketing Academy, and it's where our training 262 00:12:21,800 --> 00:12:24,380 program is right. People can buy that membership and learn how to 263 00:12:24,380 --> 00:12:26,600 use all the stuff and think about this and use the tools, 264 00:12:26,600 --> 00:12:29,540 etc. So we have the measurement Marketing Academy we promoted. 265 00:12:29,540 --> 00:12:31,880 We have a sales page, we have an offer page, and we have a 266 00:12:31,880 --> 00:12:35,300 certain expectation. We have our forecasts of how the funnel, the 267 00:12:35,300 --> 00:12:38,420 customer journey for the Academy is supposed to work. So in our 268 00:12:38,420 --> 00:12:41,860 case, it's of the people that come and see the offer page. 269 00:12:41,920 --> 00:12:45,100 Eight to 12% will go to the cart page. Other people go to the 270 00:12:45,100 --> 00:12:49,480 cart page. Say, 40 to 45% will complete the cart at, you know, 271 00:12:49,480 --> 00:12:52,240 a certain ticket amount, and then that creates the revenue. 272 00:12:52,240 --> 00:12:54,760 So we know what the results are that we're expecting. We know 273 00:12:54,760 --> 00:12:57,160 how we're supposed to get those results. And to your point, it's 274 00:12:57,160 --> 00:12:59,260 funny, you mentioned like, the kind of flow charty Like, 275 00:12:59,260 --> 00:13:01,620 example of like block and then the arrow and then a block. 276 00:13:01,860 --> 00:13:04,230 That's exactly what our reports look like. We use Data Studio to 277 00:13:04,230 --> 00:13:06,180 do that, so we have a nice little flow chart example that 278 00:13:06,180 --> 00:13:08,280 shows the journey and what the conversion rates are in between. 279 00:13:08,760 --> 00:13:11,160 So we're we made some adjustments to the page. Our 280 00:13:11,160 --> 00:13:13,410 team made some adjustments to the page we look at, we give it 281 00:13:13,410 --> 00:13:15,900 a couple of days. This is what's the kind of degree this didn't 282 00:13:15,900 --> 00:13:18,120 take. Wasn't like six months later ready to figure this out? 283 00:13:18,120 --> 00:13:21,090 It was a couple of days. We look at the reports, and we start to 284 00:13:21,090 --> 00:13:23,060 see this weird thing of the numbers, where instead hitting 285 00:13:23,060 --> 00:13:25,520 eight to 12, because remember, we're going to the report not 286 00:13:25,520 --> 00:13:28,580 saying what happened yesterday, we're going to the report saying 287 00:13:28,760 --> 00:13:31,640 did what happened? You know, we have a plan of what was supposed 288 00:13:31,640 --> 00:13:33,860 to happen a week ahead of time. Is that happening? Right? Is 289 00:13:33,860 --> 00:13:35,960 this thing working like it's supposed to? So we're looking 290 00:13:35,960 --> 00:13:38,840 for eight to 12% to go from the offer to the cart. We ended up 291 00:13:38,840 --> 00:13:42,640 having something like 30 or 40% it is absolutely true that a 292 00:13:42,640 --> 00:13:46,300 conversion rate can be too good, right? So that smells weird. 293 00:13:46,300 --> 00:13:48,520 Where you're like, Okay, wait a second, we wanted eight to 12. 294 00:13:48,700 --> 00:13:51,820 Way too many people are going to the cart. Let's go to the cart 295 00:13:51,820 --> 00:13:54,760 and see many people moving from the cart to the next step. In 296 00:13:54,760 --> 00:13:59,140 this case, purchasing. It turns out like 10 or 15% are way 297 00:13:59,140 --> 00:14:03,000 lower. So we're like, Okay, what would cause somebody because 298 00:14:03,000 --> 00:14:05,580 that's what I'm hearing. The story is, when I, if I'm if I 299 00:14:05,580 --> 00:14:08,340 get kind of a I always imagine myself having a conversation 300 00:14:08,340 --> 00:14:10,980 with the market, with the users, right? And so what the users are 301 00:14:10,980 --> 00:14:14,700 telling me is we went to the cart, not necessarily with the 302 00:14:14,700 --> 00:14:18,120 intention of buying. We went to the cart to find out something 303 00:14:18,540 --> 00:14:20,400 that we had a question on. That's why they went. They 304 00:14:20,400 --> 00:14:22,880 didn't go to buy, because the abandonment rates way too high. 305 00:14:22,880 --> 00:14:26,240 So that's just abnormal. So we go to our page and we go with 306 00:14:26,240 --> 00:14:29,900 that intention of, okay, why? If we looked at our offer page, 307 00:14:29,900 --> 00:14:35,900 what would cause us to go to the cart and then not to buy from 308 00:14:35,900 --> 00:14:38,900 the cart? We look at the page we're going through, forgot to 309 00:14:38,900 --> 00:14:42,340 put the price. Super easy mistake. Would never have 310 00:14:42,340 --> 00:14:44,620 noticed it, really, because it went through QA. It's just that 311 00:14:44,620 --> 00:14:47,320 sometimes you get blind to it. A million people see it a million 312 00:14:47,320 --> 00:14:49,960 times, and the price fall off one of the designs, and nobody 313 00:14:49,960 --> 00:14:52,180 saw it. But that's what was happening. People weren't going 314 00:14:52,180 --> 00:14:54,580 to the cart to buy it, going to the car to figure out much it 315 00:14:54,580 --> 00:14:56,740 was, and then they were going back to the sales page, which we 316 00:14:56,740 --> 00:14:59,440 could measure, we could see that, and we saw, okay, they 317 00:14:59,500 --> 00:15:01,560 actually are. Are going to the cart, and then they're going 318 00:15:01,560 --> 00:15:03,720 back to the sales page, which is friction. That's a lot of 319 00:15:03,720 --> 00:15:06,180 friction. I'm forcing them to click to the cart. I'm forcing 320 00:15:06,180 --> 00:15:08,940 them to go back and hit the, you know, sales page again, and then 321 00:15:08,940 --> 00:15:11,760 scroll back to where they were and try to figure out if it's 322 00:15:11,760 --> 00:15:14,400 worth this. That's exactly what the issue was. We go back, we 323 00:15:14,400 --> 00:15:16,740 add the price. Everything comes back to normal. Within today, 324 00:15:16,740 --> 00:15:19,740 everything came back to normal. Eight to 12% 35 to 40% 325 00:15:20,360 --> 00:15:23,000 everything starts working as expected. The other example I 326 00:15:23,000 --> 00:15:26,180 have is a Webinar Example. You mentioned webinars before we did 327 00:15:26,180 --> 00:15:31,340 a webinar where we had a product, we had a whole live 328 00:15:31,340 --> 00:15:33,800 training that we were doing, and it was separate. It was the 329 00:15:33,800 --> 00:15:36,440 first time we did this. Probably going to be the last time we did 330 00:15:36,440 --> 00:15:40,540 this, based on this advice, but we had set up the this training 331 00:15:40,540 --> 00:15:43,000 product where it was like parts of the academy, and we were 332 00:15:43,000 --> 00:15:45,520 going to help them train to build a very specific report. 333 00:15:45,520 --> 00:15:48,160 And it was this little live training. And made this webinar. 334 00:15:48,160 --> 00:15:50,860 And the webinar was amazing. Almost 1000 people writers for 335 00:15:50,860 --> 00:15:53,200 the webinar. We had hundreds and hundreds show show rate was 336 00:15:53,200 --> 00:15:56,740 perfect. Lots of people seeing the sales page. Went to the, you 337 00:15:56,740 --> 00:16:01,620 know, the the offer itself didn't move forward, so didn't 338 00:16:01,620 --> 00:16:04,140 even really go to the cart. People feel the cart completed, 339 00:16:04,140 --> 00:16:06,600 but they it was getting people to the cart. So what does that 340 00:16:06,600 --> 00:16:09,720 tell us? We had lots of people registered. We had lots of 341 00:16:09,720 --> 00:16:11,760 people show we had lots of people stay through the 342 00:16:11,760 --> 00:16:14,640 webinars. Measure for that too. We had lots of people even look 343 00:16:14,640 --> 00:16:17,760 at the offer, but they just really didn't go to the cart, 344 00:16:17,760 --> 00:16:21,080 which says to us, measuring for that says they were not into the 345 00:16:21,080 --> 00:16:24,860 offer. They loved everything we talked about, except for our 346 00:16:24,860 --> 00:16:27,800 solution. So then we went back and we said, Okay, we're going 347 00:16:27,800 --> 00:16:31,340 to have to do the basically the same style webinar, only this 348 00:16:31,340 --> 00:16:33,860 time we offer a different product. We offer a different 349 00:16:33,860 --> 00:16:36,560 solution, which we did completely different results. We 350 00:16:36,560 --> 00:16:39,860 ended up doing almost 400% improvement because we switched 351 00:16:39,860 --> 00:16:42,220 the offer. The only reason we knew to switch the offer because 352 00:16:42,220 --> 00:16:43,960 we could have said, Oh, well, the webinar is wrong, the 353 00:16:43,960 --> 00:16:46,600 registration was wrong, or whatever, but we knew it was 354 00:16:46,600 --> 00:16:49,180 this piece that needed to be fixed, because that's what they 355 00:16:49,180 --> 00:16:52,300 told us. It wasn't our opinion. It was the market saying, Hey, 356 00:16:52,300 --> 00:16:54,940 I'm with you, except I don't like that. Could if you just fix 357 00:16:54,940 --> 00:16:57,520 this part, we'll totally move forward. You know, as long as 358 00:16:57,520 --> 00:17:00,220 you match my expectation here, and we did, we changed it. Got a 359 00:17:00,220 --> 00:17:02,200 big, giant result. We're like, okay, cool. Now we've got 360 00:17:02,200 --> 00:17:04,320 something we can see. We can scale out. But again, that 361 00:17:04,320 --> 00:17:06,360 wasn't our idea. It's not because we're brilliant 362 00:17:06,360 --> 00:17:08,820 marketers. It's because we listen to the market, and the 363 00:17:08,820 --> 00:17:09,840 way that we listen is through 364 00:17:11,280 --> 00:17:13,440 Robert Plank: measurement. So this is making a lot of sense, 365 00:17:13,500 --> 00:17:16,500 as far as you kind of like asking the right questions, like 366 00:17:16,500 --> 00:17:19,920 you said early on, and kind of like following through the path, 367 00:17:19,920 --> 00:17:23,600 because it there seems to be a lot of like, the I don't like, 368 00:17:23,660 --> 00:17:26,900 like, the gimmicky ness of it, right? Someone says like, well, 369 00:17:27,140 --> 00:17:30,500 if you look at my swipe file, and if I put an orange border 370 00:17:30,500 --> 00:17:34,220 around this button this, it'll convert at 54% and there's just 371 00:17:34,220 --> 00:17:38,060 a lot of like, really, like, super fundamental things like 372 00:17:38,060 --> 00:17:40,120 that, that it took me so many years to figure out, like you 373 00:17:40,120 --> 00:17:43,660 mentioned about, like, putting the price on or near the button. 374 00:17:43,720 --> 00:17:46,720 I used to think that was great if someone clicked into the car, 375 00:17:46,720 --> 00:17:49,180 because I'd be like, great. Now I can do a retargeting or 376 00:17:49,180 --> 00:17:51,520 abandoned carpet, and it's like, yeah, but if they're clicking 377 00:17:51,520 --> 00:17:54,160 and they're going back and and that's not good. And, like, 378 00:17:54,160 --> 00:17:57,220 little things like, like having it where, like, if they click on 379 00:17:57,220 --> 00:17:59,740 a button on a page, like, drops them down to the order area 380 00:17:59,740 --> 00:18:02,700 instead of going right to the car. So, like, 100% sure what 381 00:18:02,700 --> 00:18:06,360 they're looking at and and yes, it's like, that's kind of the 382 00:18:06,480 --> 00:18:10,380 counter to a lot of like, the bros. I don't know what else to 383 00:18:10,380 --> 00:18:12,900 call them, but like, the conversion bros, webinar bros 384 00:18:12,900 --> 00:18:16,140 that say, Well, hey, if you have to do a webinar that's 34 385 00:18:16,380 --> 00:18:18,420 minutes long, and it's like, but you're looking through a 386 00:18:18,420 --> 00:18:21,140 peephole. You're looking at just like this one metric, and who 387 00:18:21,140 --> 00:18:22,220 knows what the rest one 388 00:18:22,220 --> 00:18:24,260 Chris Mercer: weird trick thing, right? It's like, Oh, dude, this 389 00:18:24,260 --> 00:18:26,780 one weird trick, and all of a sudden your conversions will be 390 00:18:26,780 --> 00:18:29,540 three times. You know, it's not how people operate. It's not 391 00:18:29,540 --> 00:18:32,300 about not how behaviors are. Like I you and I could, could 392 00:18:32,300 --> 00:18:34,520 venture to say, like, whatever optic rate you're running, if 393 00:18:34,520 --> 00:18:37,340 you're doing cold traffic, it's probably somewhere between 25 394 00:18:37,520 --> 00:18:40,660 and 35% ish, somewhere around there with cold traffic, if it's 395 00:18:40,660 --> 00:18:44,200 warm traffic, you might be 45 to 55% on some opt in, sometimes 396 00:18:44,200 --> 00:18:46,120 higher. If it's like an affiliate or something, or your 397 00:18:46,120 --> 00:18:48,040 own list that you're mailing for, I know that's what it's 398 00:18:48,100 --> 00:18:50,260 going to be for you last year. I know those are going to be for 399 00:18:50,260 --> 00:18:52,420 you this year. I know that's probably what it's going to be 400 00:18:52,420 --> 00:18:55,180 for you next year, because that's how humans are, yeah, and 401 00:18:55,180 --> 00:18:58,180 because that's how behaviors flow, and that's, that's there's 402 00:18:58,180 --> 00:19:01,420 a beauty to that. I'm never going to get 100% opt in rate. 403 00:19:01,420 --> 00:19:05,400 Never right? And if I did, it's because I sacrificed someplace 404 00:19:05,400 --> 00:19:08,280 else, meaning I talked to the three people who were going to 405 00:19:08,280 --> 00:19:11,520 opt in, and they all opted in. But it doesn't scale. At scale, 406 00:19:11,520 --> 00:19:13,800 you start seeing patterns and trend. It's the law of large 407 00:19:13,800 --> 00:19:17,220 numbers, and it's amazing, because you can rely on that, 408 00:19:17,220 --> 00:19:20,720 like a concrete floor, like it is solid, it doesn't go anywhere 409 00:19:20,720 --> 00:19:23,060 and you know it's going to be there years from now. So you can 410 00:19:23,060 --> 00:19:25,820 build a company based on on that, but you've got to measure 411 00:19:25,820 --> 00:19:28,100 for the behavior so you know exactly, you know what's working 412 00:19:28,100 --> 00:19:30,440 and what's not, as you go along the way and but to your point, 413 00:19:30,440 --> 00:19:32,540 that's what it is. All you're doing is you're you're measuring 414 00:19:32,540 --> 00:19:35,540 for the customer journey. And then did they achieve? Did they 415 00:19:35,540 --> 00:19:38,960 did they provide the behaviors that would, that would sort of 416 00:19:38,960 --> 00:19:41,740 allow you to infer that they're with you in that, in that 417 00:19:41,740 --> 00:19:44,320 conversation, still, right? So as an example, like when we do 418 00:19:44,320 --> 00:19:47,380 our marketing, you'll send me when we when we finish this out, 419 00:19:47,500 --> 00:19:50,020 you'll you'll produce it, you'll send me a link says, Hey, this 420 00:19:50,020 --> 00:19:53,140 is up now we're sharing with our audience. I will send traffic to 421 00:19:53,140 --> 00:19:56,260 this, right? So what we call off site brand aware. So I will send 422 00:19:56,260 --> 00:19:58,780 traffic from all our paid platforms and resources. We will 423 00:19:58,780 --> 00:20:02,040 send traffic to your site. And that is to, yes, course, promote 424 00:20:02,040 --> 00:20:04,680 you, but also, obviously secondarily, to promote us, 425 00:20:04,680 --> 00:20:07,080 right? So we're going to borrow off your brand. We're off site 426 00:20:07,080 --> 00:20:09,300 brand aware. So they are aware, kind of the measurement 427 00:20:09,300 --> 00:20:12,660 marketing.io brand, but it's not on our site that puts them into 428 00:20:12,660 --> 00:20:15,360 a retargeting audience. Anybody interacts with that ad then goes 429 00:20:15,360 --> 00:20:18,240 into retargeting audience, whose job it is. Now the ad is, get 430 00:20:18,240 --> 00:20:20,580 them on site brand aware, which means, okay, certainly one of 431 00:20:20,580 --> 00:20:22,620 those people we're going to come to measure marketing.io 432 00:20:22,980 --> 00:20:25,460 measuremarketing.io and I want them there at least 10 seconds 433 00:20:25,520 --> 00:20:28,160 on the page. They're aware of the measurement marketing.io 434 00:20:28,520 --> 00:20:32,120 brand. And then, if they, you know, haven't become a free 435 00:20:32,120 --> 00:20:35,000 toolbox member or a measurement marketing IO, measuremarketing 436 00:20:35,000 --> 00:20:37,520 Academy member, or anything like that, then they go into other 437 00:20:37,520 --> 00:20:39,860 campaigns whose job it is to then continue the journey say, 438 00:20:39,860 --> 00:20:42,280 well, you're aware of measure marketing.io, you've maybe seen 439 00:20:42,280 --> 00:20:44,740 the blog post. Let's continue the journey. Maybe become a free 440 00:20:44,740 --> 00:20:47,020 member. Maybe become a measurement Marketing Academy 441 00:20:47,020 --> 00:20:49,600 member, and then, and then the retargeting kind of works from 442 00:20:49,600 --> 00:20:51,760 there. But we're having a conversation as we journey from 443 00:20:51,760 --> 00:20:54,280 off site. I've never heard of measurement marketing to IO to 444 00:20:54,280 --> 00:20:56,920 Okay, now I'm familiar with the actual website. I've put it into 445 00:20:56,920 --> 00:20:59,380 my browser window, I've seen the pages, I've explored the blog. 446 00:20:59,380 --> 00:21:01,720 I'm into this stuff. Yes, I'm becoming a tool expenditure. 447 00:21:01,720 --> 00:21:04,560 Okay, I'll do an Academy member, and now, you know, I'll bring in 448 00:21:04,560 --> 00:21:07,200 other people, you know, and so, but we measure for that journey 449 00:21:07,440 --> 00:21:08,100 as we go. 450 00:21:09,180 --> 00:21:11,760 Robert Plank: And this, this is so cool to think about, and it's 451 00:21:11,760 --> 00:21:13,800 really quick with me. As far as, like, you're saying, like, 452 00:21:13,980 --> 00:21:17,100 almost like, don't let the, don't let the technology take 453 00:21:17,100 --> 00:21:20,420 over, right? Like, the technology is a tool. And even, 454 00:21:20,420 --> 00:21:22,700 like, the way that I'm I'm kind of understanding your thought 455 00:21:22,700 --> 00:21:25,760 process. It's, it's like, like, decoding and encoding, right? 456 00:21:25,760 --> 00:21:28,460 Like, the decoding is, you look at all this data, you looking at 457 00:21:28,460 --> 00:21:32,060 the customer journey, saying, like, not what went wrong, but 458 00:21:32,060 --> 00:21:34,700 what happened, and then seeing, like, where's the weak point, 459 00:21:34,760 --> 00:21:37,520 and then as far as, like, the encoding, kind of the reverse of 460 00:21:37,520 --> 00:21:40,160 that, as you're saying, well, here, here are these marketing 461 00:21:40,160 --> 00:21:43,300 principles, right? There's like the like stages of awareness. 462 00:21:43,420 --> 00:21:48,340 And so if someone clicks over from your podcast to measurement 463 00:21:48,340 --> 00:21:52,000 marketing.io and that they stay on the page for a longer time, 464 00:21:52,000 --> 00:21:55,420 you market to them in this way. Or if they sign up for this free 465 00:21:55,420 --> 00:21:58,360 thing, we market to them in that way. And so it kind of lets us 466 00:21:58,480 --> 00:22:01,260 have our cake and eat it too. Have the best of both worlds and 467 00:22:01,260 --> 00:22:04,560 to kind of think more about the big picture on the strategy, not 468 00:22:04,560 --> 00:22:08,520 just the nearsighted. Let me just increase this one 469 00:22:08,520 --> 00:22:11,160 conversion rate. You're like, you have a whole spider of a 470 00:22:11,280 --> 00:22:14,160 whole system that all works together. So this is blowing my 471 00:22:14,160 --> 00:22:18,540 mind. This, this sounds amazing. And so people say, okay, like, I 472 00:22:18,540 --> 00:22:21,620 know that maybe what I'm doing or I want to do, is on the right 473 00:22:21,620 --> 00:22:24,740 track, as far as having, like, the the reports or the 474 00:22:24,800 --> 00:22:28,040 dashboards or the different kind of funnels or customer journeys, 475 00:22:28,040 --> 00:22:31,100 and if I want to take things to the next level here, if I say, 476 00:22:31,160 --> 00:22:33,440 Well, you know, listening to listening to one podcast 477 00:22:33,440 --> 00:22:36,860 interview has whet my appetite, but it's not enough. Now, where 478 00:22:36,860 --> 00:22:39,860 do I go? How do I find out about Chris and his team? How do I 479 00:22:39,860 --> 00:22:42,820 find out about measurement marketing next steps. Whatever 480 00:22:42,820 --> 00:22:44,620 that free tool was, what's the next step here? 481 00:22:44,620 --> 00:22:46,660 Chris Mercer: Absolutely. Well, of course, measurement marketing 482 00:22:46,660 --> 00:22:48,940 to iOS are sites. You're more than welcome to go there and 483 00:22:48,940 --> 00:22:51,880 check it out and see what we've got. But we do have a free 484 00:22:51,880 --> 00:22:54,700 toolbox membership, so that is where we have weekly trainings 485 00:22:54,700 --> 00:22:57,220 that are there for free for the toolbox members. And we also 486 00:22:57,220 --> 00:22:59,620 have a bunch of different measurement marketing tools that 487 00:22:59,620 --> 00:23:01,860 we give our members as well, again, completely free, 488 00:23:01,860 --> 00:23:04,380 including things like how to track your traffic properly and 489 00:23:04,380 --> 00:23:06,720 how to actually set up goals, not just how to set them up in 490 00:23:06,720 --> 00:23:09,360 Google Analytics, but like what a goal should even be, and what 491 00:23:09,360 --> 00:23:12,120 do you do with it, right? Like that sort of stuff. So we'll 492 00:23:12,120 --> 00:23:14,760 have all of that back there for we call our toolbox members. If 493 00:23:14,760 --> 00:23:18,780 you go to measurement marketing.io forward slash mot, 494 00:23:18,960 --> 00:23:22,160 marketer of the day. So measure marketing.io, forward, slash, 495 00:23:22,160 --> 00:23:25,520 MOTD, it'll take you right to that toolbox offer just to name 496 00:23:25,520 --> 00:23:28,040 an email, and you can go ahead and set up your free account at 497 00:23:28,040 --> 00:23:29,180 that point. 498 00:23:29,180 --> 00:23:31,820 Robert Plank: Fantastic. And that is exactly on brand right. 499 00:23:31,940 --> 00:23:35,660 If you're a Google Tag Manager person, a Google analytics 500 00:23:35,660 --> 00:23:39,080 person, you better as heck have a custom landing page or a 501 00:23:39,080 --> 00:23:41,380 custom tracking link, otherwise, what are you doing with your 502 00:23:41,380 --> 00:23:45,820 life? So he said, measurement, marketing.il/motd, go there 503 00:23:45,820 --> 00:23:50,080 right now, run, don't walk. Any final parting words of advice. 504 00:23:50,080 --> 00:23:52,060 Or Chris, I know that. Like, what's sticking out for me is 505 00:23:52,060 --> 00:23:55,180 that whole idea of, like, ask the right questions. Don't just 506 00:23:55,180 --> 00:23:57,460 go and figure out what to do. Like, figure out, okay, what 507 00:23:57,460 --> 00:24:00,280 question Am I asking? Why am I asking it? But does anything 508 00:24:00,280 --> 00:24:03,420 jump out for you. As far as something we all really need to 509 00:24:03,480 --> 00:24:06,600 sit up and pay attention to, as far as conversion, measurement, 510 00:24:06,600 --> 00:24:07,560 all this good stuff, 511 00:24:07,920 --> 00:24:10,320 Chris Mercer: I would really focus on the basics. It's this 512 00:24:10,320 --> 00:24:13,920 is always easier than you think it is. It is super easy to get 513 00:24:13,920 --> 00:24:16,620 confused by the tools, though, because tools like analytics and 514 00:24:16,620 --> 00:24:19,020 Tag Manager or whatever the systems are people using the 515 00:24:19,020 --> 00:24:21,800 measure they there's a lot to it, because measurement is can 516 00:24:21,800 --> 00:24:26,480 be complicated. It just is, but the strategy that you use is 517 00:24:26,480 --> 00:24:28,820 what saves you. It's how you think about measurement that 518 00:24:28,820 --> 00:24:30,980 saves you. It's not the tool that saves you. People think 519 00:24:30,980 --> 00:24:33,680 Google Analytics is going to save them once they start using 520 00:24:33,680 --> 00:24:36,200 it, but it's not. It's how you think about measurement and then 521 00:24:36,200 --> 00:24:38,840 use that tool in that way that saves you, right? Just like 522 00:24:38,840 --> 00:24:42,100 using a hammer does not make make you build a house. It's 523 00:24:42,100 --> 00:24:44,920 knowing carpentry that helps you to build the house right and do 524 00:24:44,920 --> 00:24:47,320 framing and everything else like that's the idea you've got to 525 00:24:47,320 --> 00:24:50,080 understand the strategy of measurement that is so much more 526 00:24:50,080 --> 00:24:52,660 important than knowing the tools. Obviously, once you 527 00:24:52,660 --> 00:24:55,240 understand the strategy, you will want to learn the tools, 528 00:24:55,360 --> 00:24:57,940 but then the tools make so much more sense because you've got a 529 00:24:57,940 --> 00:25:00,360 better strategy for it. But. Powerful. 530 00:25:00,360 --> 00:25:03,360 Robert Plank: I love it. Measurement marketing, or let me 531 00:25:03,360 --> 00:25:05,640 get this right, yeah, measurement marketing.io/motd, 532 00:25:07,860 --> 00:25:08,880 and we'll see you there.