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announcer: a marketer of the Day
episode 802 The Code of Business

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Building, marketing, product
development and launches with

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Tracy Childers.

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Robert Plank: Hey everyone,
welcome back to another exciting

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interview inside Double Agent
Marketing. My name is Robert

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plank. And we're going to talk
today to a really smart guy. His

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name is Tracy Childers. If that
name sounds familiar, you might

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have heard of his dad, John
Childers, who teaches people how

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to speak and sell from the
stage. He has a brother JJ

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Childers, who teaches you how to
protect your assets, save money

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on taxes, but you're gonna be
blown away by that even better

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children's Mr. Tracy shoulders.
He is probably one of the

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smartest marketers I've ever
come across in the past 1020,

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even 30 years or more, he's
going to talk to you about how

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to work a lot smarter with your
business and outsource it so

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that you can still make money
but not do as much of the work.

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Hey, Tracy, what's up?

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Unknown: Hey, Robert, thanks for
that kind introduction. I don't

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know if I can live up to all
that well,

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Robert Plank: oh, well, you
know, you're a humble guy,

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outspoken guy, but I'm pretty
sure you can live up to that and

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more if you put your mind to it.
So I top of what I just told

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everyone about you. I mean, I
mean, if someone asks, what do

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you do? What would you tell
them? I guess?

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Unknown: That's kind of a funny
question. I mean, all of my

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friends here in town are like,
you know, we've known you for, I

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don't know how many years, but
we still just don't know exactly

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what it is that you do. Like, we
know that you work from home,

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and we know that you have a nice
house and a nice car and

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everything, but we're kind of
questioning it. You know, it

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really, you know, you said some
kind words about being a good

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marketer. And, you know, if when
you're talking to some people,

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you say, really, that's
ultimately what it comes down

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to? It's, I'd say that I'm an
internet marketer. Now it to

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break things down into what most
people would understand in terms

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of what do I actually do? I'd
say that I'm an owner of a small

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software development company.
And so naturally, people

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immediately think, Oh, so you're
a programmer? Well, no, not

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really a programmer, I don't
even know how to write code. And

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that that really throws people
for a loop. So what what I

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basically explained to people
who say, so imagine a contractor

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on your house, you say, hey, I
want to build this house. And

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the contractor says, Okay, I
know all of the steps that it

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takes, in order to get that
done, then we're going to get a

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different person to do the
plumbing, we're going to get

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somebody else to do the framing,
and then we're gonna get

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somebody else to do the
electrical wiring. So it's very

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much being like a contractor of
house, I guess, I'm a contractor

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in terms of building software,
products, and, and then people

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say, oh, so maybe you do that
for a client? No, I don't ever

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do that for clients for a piece
of work. We do that, because we

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try to find out, what is it that
people would want to buy? So

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ultimately, that leads back to,
hey, I'm really an internet

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marketer at heart.

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Robert Plank: So it's almost
like you're like a software

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contractors for yourself?

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Unknown: Yeah, pretty much. I
mean, we're building a company,

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I mean, I've always just kind of
been interested in technical

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things and such. And so I just
kind of learned, hey, software

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is really the stuff that I'm
most interested in. So why not

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try to make cool software that
other people like as well, and

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then make money from selling it
to them. And really the thing,

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when I said I don't really do
things for clients, I didn't do

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that in the past, what I realize
is, I really wanted to focus on

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one thing, and make it as good
as possible, and then sell that

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said, that same thing over and
over and over and over and over.

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So, you know, many of the
products that I have, you know,

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this the exact same product has
been sold 1000s of times. So

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that's, that's kind of a good
position to be in.

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Robert Plank: And I mean, that's
such a good point. Because, I

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mean, as a guy who does software
myself, I was in the same

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position, I would make software
or do jobs for other people

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before doing it for myself. And
it's like, I mean, you're never

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gonna care as much doing it for
someone else as for yourself.

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Right, right. Oh, yeah. So and
it's like, you do a job for

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someone and then you get paid,
you know, by hourly or for the

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job. And then it's done. But
it's cool. Like you said, this

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sell 1000s copies to improve it
over the course of two or three

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years of like trial, different
features, or even to be the

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contractor to be the guy in
charge and say, We I want to add

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this feature, or like this
feature maybe the competitors

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have or this sounds cool, but we
don't want to go in that

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direction.

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Unknown: Yeah, and you know, you
said something like when when

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you do the work for a client,
and then you get paid for the,

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the work and then it's over. I
think Robert Kiyosaki was The

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one that I first really kind of
understood that in his book,

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Rich Dad, Poor Dad, you know, he
calls it, you know, you're

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really just trading your dollars
for hours or your hours for

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dollars. And, you know, I just
want to be able to focus on

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something, then continuously and
consistently make it better and

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better and better, and then
still be able to sell it to

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multiple people. So that that's
really kind of how I got into

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all that.

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Robert Plank: And then, I mean,
it sounds like, um, we'll talk

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about some of your businesses in
a few minutes. But the way that

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you set things up, once you kind
of have it in motion, you don't

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really have to do too much.

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Unknown: Yeah, exactly. And I
guess that's kind of really the

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thing that I always kind of
focus on, you know, a lot of the

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products that I've done in the
past, you know, I have done them

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a little bit differently than
the way I'm doing things now, in

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the sense that, you know, it was
really, it was kind of just me

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and working with outsourcers.
But then it's like, I was kind

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of the brainchild on it. Like I
set everything in motion, but

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but my whole, I guess focus is
always kind of how do I remove

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myself from the picture? And
what I mean is, like, once the

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product is able to sell, I mean,
how do I get out of doing all

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the technical support, because I
think when you and I first met,

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that was something that you were
doing a ton of time on. And what

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I realized is if you set it up
the right way, in the beginning,

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and you're gonna have to realize
that the majority of the, the

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questions for technical support
will all come in in the

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beginning. So you kind of have
to answer them. And then

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ultimately, when you answer
them, then somebody else can

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come in and say, Oh, now I see
how it was done. So I can just

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follow in your footsteps and do
that. And then I get somebody

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else to take over. And now I'm
on to, you know, whatever else

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I'm going to be doing. So
really, all of that is the way

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that I work is I never, ever,
ever get paid. For the stuff

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that I'm actually working on
right now. It has to all be

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finished. And then whenever it's
finished, that's when I started

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getting paid. And see, it's kind
of cool because I get paid. And

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I'm not even working on that I'm
completely done. And I just keep

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generating money. And now I'm
focusing on something new, that

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will kind of move down in that
cycle. And whenever it's

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finished, then I get paid on
that. So you can imagine, you

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start getting these multiple
entities out that are past,

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those are the ones that are
generating money. So that's why

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your income can really, really
increase. Because it's not

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limited to the amount of time
that you have.

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Robert Plank: That makes total
sense. And it's so cool, right?

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So to get paid for stuff you did
2345 years ago, and it's still

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paying you every

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Unknown: day, every month. It's
a great way to wake up.

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Robert Plank: That's for sure.
So, you know, before we get to

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off on a tangent, tell me how
you've been how you got or how

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did you even discover, you know,
into marketing and software and

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that kind of stuff?

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Unknown: Well, it is a good
question, brother. You know, you

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had mentioned that my father has
done quite a few seminars and

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also our brothers into up. So
when my brother and I were at a

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very, very young age. I mean, my
father just kind of got us, you

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know, into working in his
business. And I mean, basically,

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he wasn't internet marketing,
back then it was information

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marketing. And the majority of
the way that he did all of his

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was he sold things from
seminars. And so you know, he

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taught people how to invest in
real estate and really like when

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I was 11 years old. It's crazy,
because I have a son that's at

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age. Did you hear that? Oh,
yeah, I had lots of hair back

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then. But I mean, when I was 11
years old, I started duplicating

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audio tapes and putting them in
the binders and packing them up

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in boxes and shipping them to
things. So I just that's the

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natural way I thought in terms
of business is Oh, wow, he

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created this thing one time, and
now we're sending it to you

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know, 1000s of people. So I
always kind of thought that way.

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And then I also always kind of
got into computers as they were

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coming out and started learning
new things about computers. And

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so naturally, right before the
the internet came along, I was

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really getting into computers
and I was doing database work

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and exactly what I say I don't
ever do I used to do, I used to

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actually go to a client's
office, and I would kind of

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analyze, Hey, what are you doing
and how are you doing it with

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your computers? And how are you
tracking everything in terms of

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your database, and then I would
design databases for small

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businesses, so I kind of got
into a little bit of

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programming, but I was using a
program called FileMaker Pro,

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which was, you know, it was kind
of like Microsoft Access. And it

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had a really nice scripting
system. And so I didn't really

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know how to write code, but I, I
could build stuff. And so then

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the kind of evolution goes, I
went in, I started creating

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databases that were actual
products. So I created some

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products, then my father was
selling them at seminars. And so

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it really started doing that and
pretty young age. And then as

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the internet came along, I just
like, Man, this is just a

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natural fit. So I wanted to
learn everything there was about

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how the Internet work and how
you could sell things. And, and

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that's kind of where just kind
of went on from there.

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Robert Plank: Awesome. And I
mean, and you have some of the

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coolest, the coolest sites, and
the ones that I know about, I

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know you have like a video
player product, and then you

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have a character at your site.
How did you even stumble across

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that? Yeah,

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Unknown: well, those are both
completely different stories. I

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mean, I'll just mentioned the
caricature site real quick. I

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started traveling to the
Philippines. And I started

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working with programmers over
there. And then through the

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course, we we met a guy that was
just an extremely talented

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artist, and he really
specialized in doing

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caricatures. So we, you know,
that's, that's how that

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caricature site got created.
Other thing is actually, I

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think, kind of a more important
lesson. And the product is

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called f L v, producer FL, V
stands for flash video. And the

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products actually been out for
quite a while now, you know, I

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think I've been selling it for
about six years. So you can

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imagine, back then everybody was
fighting, they didn't really

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know what the ultimate video
format was going to be the

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standard. And you know, Flash
video kind of emerged as the the

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winner at that time, you know,
and so people, people wanted to

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have Oh, playing in a flash
video player on their website.

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And really, there were only a
few ways of doing it. And back

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then, probably the most popular
one was a product called

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Sorenson squeeze. And what I,
what I found was that every time

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I would talk to people, they
would say, almost exactly the

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same thing. And this is really,
really key. Because once you

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understand this thing, this is
how I have faced the majority of

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my products and businesses. They
say, yeah, man, that's a great

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product, but it's just very
complicated to use, or

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complicated to understand, or it
just doesn't do this, I wish it

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would do that. And so I just
kept hearing that over and over.

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And so then it was decided, hey,
you know, something needs to be

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done better. You know. So that's
where the FLV producer came

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along. And it was a better
scenario than almost anything

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that was out there at the time.
You know, since then, a lot of

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people have figured out, you
know, video is a hot thing. And

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now there's, I mean, when I did
that, that was even before

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YouTube, no Vimeo, or anything
like that, you know, it's

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really, really changed quite a
bit. So that's the same thing.

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You know, now, I have other
software that's, you know,

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gotten to be quite popular, and
we have a big company behind it.

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But it was a very similar
scenario, in the sense that

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people were saying, I wish there
was a solution that did this.

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Robert Plank: And that's, that's
a cool way of going about it.

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Because, I mean, it always
sucks. If you're the first

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person, I mean, like, say, you
were the first person to come up

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with an FLV, video player, it
would kind of suck because you

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wouldn't have anything to base
it on. You've put in all this

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work into it and wouldn't really
know, you know, if you were

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designing it right, or if it
made sense. And then when

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someone inevitably knocked you
off, then you'd feel like, well,

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I, you know, I was the guinea
pig, I did all this work. But on

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the other hand, if you see that,
there already are video players

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out there, and some do this,
some do that and you're like,

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Well, I'm just kind of, I'm not
going to copy what I'm just

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going to see, you know, they
spent a year or two figuring out

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what, what what was right what
was wrong, and then I'll make my

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own knockoff, but my own version
of this, and then if someone

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else knocks me off, what's it's
okay, because it's just, you

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know, I knock someone else off
to begin with, right.

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Unknown: Yeah, I mean, I think
that you said some pretty key

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stuff there. Robert. Number one
is you say to be the very first

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person to me, you know, there
are people that are the very

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first and to me, that seems to
me like it's the most

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complicated scenario around
where I think the majority of

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the money is, is being Seeing
almost first, you know, you can

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see what's kind of working. So
you don't have to completely

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create something from scratch,
you see what's kind of working?

248
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And then you make it really
good. You know, I mean, I spent

249
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tons of time on FLV producer and
tons of things that I didn't

250
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know and other people didn't
know. And we made it better. But

251
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then what happens? After that
you said, then there's knock

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offs. I mean, I, you know, I
guess you could take it as a

253
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compliment or so. But there were
people that were coming out, and

254
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they were seeing my success, and
they were copying, almost to a

255
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tee exactly is basically they
were saying, hey, I want to make

256
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a clone of this software, I want
it to do exactly what that one

257
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looks like. And I want it even
to look the same. And people

258
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were making players that looked
almost identical. And you know,

259
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you know, then they, they
probably made a lot of money.

260
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But I just don't think that
that's what you want to be. And

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I think you want to be just
after first and kind of be a

262
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little bit innovative, but not
have to create everything on

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your

264
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Robert Plank: one. And what's
funny is those people who tried

265
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to knock you off, exactly, I bet
that I mean, it wasn't an exact

266
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copy. And they're probably like,
maybe a few little things that

267
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you said, Well, you know, maybe
they didn't even realize that

268
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they made their own
improvements. And it's, it's

269
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kind of like capitalism, right?
Like, yeah, like, they knock you

270
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off. And then you can kind of
like, absorb the changes and,

271
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and, you know, get one step
ahead of them again. Yeah, yeah.

272
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And I mean, I hate always,
whenever I talk about software,

273
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if you will always end up going
back to like, like Apple and

274
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iPhone stuff. But I mean,
everyone always kinda, you know,

275
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talks about whatever, like
iPhone versus Android. And it's

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like, always, like, the Android
phones, they always come up

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with, like, the newest features
first, but they're always kinda,

278
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you know, they're the guinea
pig. And I mean, it's, I didn't

279
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take like a year or two, for
even an iPhone to come up with

280
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copy and paste, because they
just wanted to see how everyone

281
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else did copy and paste on the
phone. And then their way was

282
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the simplest, because they said,
well, there's five ways to do

283
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it. There's only one that makes
sense. Yeah.

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Unknown: You know, I know, we
don't have a lot of time,

285
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Robert. Yeah. And you mentioned
apple and iPhone and stuff like

286
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that. And I do want to say one
thing, because a lot of times

287
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people, you know, hear about
software and stuff like that,

288
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and they're like, Oh, well,
that's all good for Robert and

289
00:17:20,340 --> 00:17:24,180
Tracy, because those guys are
technical. And, you know, Robert

290
00:17:24,180 --> 00:17:29,010
can write code. And I really,
really want to emphasize on the

291
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fact that I really do not know
how to write any code. And so,

292
00:17:35,010 --> 00:17:39,000
you know, people, it's almost
like they're using that as a

293
00:17:39,000 --> 00:17:43,380
scapegoat. You know, you
mentioned Apple iPhone and Steve

294
00:17:43,380 --> 00:17:48,030
Jobs, you know, I mean, this is
a guy that changed the world

295
00:17:48,330 --> 00:17:54,030
with his ideas, you know, and I
can guarantee you that Steve

296
00:17:54,030 --> 00:17:58,170
Jobs didn't know anything about
soldering a motherboard or, you

297
00:17:58,170 --> 00:18:02,280
know, these electronical
connections, he just knew and

298
00:18:02,280 --> 00:18:07,650
was very, very good at saying
this is what I want. And let me

299
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tell somebody what I want so
that they can do it. And that

300
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right, there is the exact same
way that I go about creating

301
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software, you don't have to know
how you how to do it, you just

302
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have to get really good at
explaining what you want. And

303
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that's the whole key to the
whole thing with outsourcing and

304
00:18:28,170 --> 00:18:31,590
really working with somebody in
order to create a great product.

305
00:18:32,280 --> 00:18:34,920
Robert Plank: So So I mean,
let's explore that if someone

306
00:18:35,370 --> 00:18:39,120
was like you, and they had an
idea for a piece of software, I

307
00:18:39,120 --> 00:18:44,490
mean, how would they explain
their idea? How would they get

308
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it developed? And and how would
they remove themselves from the

309
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equation?

310
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Unknown: Well, I mean, there's a
lot of places that you can go to

311
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outsource. One of my favorites,
you know, back in the day was

312
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rent a coder.com. And now I
believe it's called V worker for

313
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virtual worker.com. But
basically, you can go there, and

314
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you can post a project. And you
can just describe it. I mean,

315
00:19:05,970 --> 00:19:09,000
they, you know, you can, you
know, you can type things out

316
00:19:09,000 --> 00:19:11,580
and tax and say I want it to
look like this. And then here

317
00:19:11,580 --> 00:19:15,210
are some examples and stuff. But
another great thing is a piece

318
00:19:15,210 --> 00:19:19,890
of software called Jing. It's
made by TechSmith. And you know,

319
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you can capture your screen and
you can draw arrows, and you can

320
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point at things and you can just
talk I mean, you can just tell

321
00:19:27,240 --> 00:19:30,570
people you say, you know, I want
this little thing I want a piece

322
00:19:30,570 --> 00:19:35,220
of software that's like example,
I want to a countdown timer, you

323
00:19:35,220 --> 00:19:39,810
know, and I wanted to have three
blocks one is the hours one is

324
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the minutes and one is the
seconds and then in order to set

325
00:19:43,200 --> 00:19:45,900
it I want to be able to click on
some buttons and I want these

326
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buttons to have up arrow and
down arrow. When I click on the

327
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up arrow, it makes that number
go higher. If I click on the

328
00:19:53,160 --> 00:19:57,300
down arrow, it goes lower. You
just kind of have to envision it

329
00:19:57,300 --> 00:20:02,370
all in your mind and be able to
show What you have in your mind,

330
00:20:03,390 --> 00:20:06,390
to somebody that's going to
actually build it in sometimes

331
00:20:06,600 --> 00:20:09,480
that might even be drawing it
out on a piece of paper, you

332
00:20:09,480 --> 00:20:12,450
know, draw on the piece of paper
and say, Hey, I realize that

333
00:20:12,450 --> 00:20:16,740
this doesn't look very good. But
this is a general idea of what I

334
00:20:16,740 --> 00:20:19,890
want. Now I found this other
program, it does something

335
00:20:19,890 --> 00:20:22,980
totally different. But I really
liked the way that it looks.

336
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Make this program that you're
building for me with this

337
00:20:25,920 --> 00:20:29,070
functionality that I just
described, look exactly like

338
00:20:29,070 --> 00:20:33,810
that. And if they don't do it,
right, then hey, you kind of did

339
00:20:33,810 --> 00:20:37,800
it right. But here's what I wish
you had done and change it. Just

340
00:20:37,830 --> 00:20:41,550
be really, really picky and get
into as much detail as you

341
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possibly can.

342
00:20:43,590 --> 00:20:46,260
Robert Plank: And it's funny
that you mentioned, you know,

343
00:20:46,260 --> 00:20:48,330
when you're when you're saying,
you know, I want the software to

344
00:20:48,330 --> 00:20:50,580
look this way, act this way,
it's funny that you mentioned,

345
00:20:50,580 --> 00:20:53,100
you know, telling people, well,
there's a similar piece of

346
00:20:53,100 --> 00:20:56,400
software here, I want it to look
like this, because I don't know

347
00:20:56,400 --> 00:20:59,130
about you, but I have some
Google Alerts on some of my

348
00:20:59,130 --> 00:21:01,260
software. So someone mentioned,
it's like the name of my product

349
00:21:01,260 --> 00:21:04,020
or my website, I'll get an
email. And every now and then on

350
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one of the sites like you know,
V worker, or like oDesk, or

351
00:21:07,230 --> 00:21:09,990
something, someone will
mentioned when one of my

352
00:21:09,990 --> 00:21:12,780
pricing, they'll say, Well, I
see this guy's got a pop up

353
00:21:12,780 --> 00:21:16,110
software, can you make it look
like this? But then like you

354
00:21:16,110 --> 00:21:19,860
said, also add this, or also
you'll make it behave in this

355
00:21:19,860 --> 00:21:22,260
way as well. I mean, do you guys
see that? Which says, for

356
00:21:22,260 --> 00:21:23,340
example, you see, yeah,

357
00:21:23,370 --> 00:21:25,680
Unknown: you know, and I mean,
sometimes I'd see it all the

358
00:21:25,680 --> 00:21:30,450
time. And especially back in the
day with FLV, producer, I'd see

359
00:21:30,450 --> 00:21:33,930
people post projects, and like,
I just want a clone of this

360
00:21:33,930 --> 00:21:37,500
software, I went to do exactly
like that. And yeah, with our

361
00:21:37,710 --> 00:21:42,090
WishList Member software, I
mean, we have people doing stuff

362
00:21:42,090 --> 00:21:45,600
like that all the time. And I
mean, we had a competitor, that

363
00:21:45,840 --> 00:21:50,640
that surfaced in is like, it was
kind of a funny story, because

364
00:21:50,640 --> 00:21:54,000
we had a competitor that really
didn't have a very good product.

365
00:21:54,480 --> 00:22:00,300
And then instead of fixing his
product, he created yet another

366
00:22:00,300 --> 00:22:04,770
product, which was a competition
to his other product, which was

367
00:22:04,770 --> 00:22:09,360
basically a knockoff of ours. He
didn't get it right the first

368
00:22:09,360 --> 00:22:13,680
time. So instead, I'm just going
to clone theirs, and have a new

369
00:22:13,680 --> 00:22:17,280
prop, which is kind of funny,
but you know, and then

370
00:22:17,280 --> 00:22:21,120
ultimately, stuff like that is
really going to happen. So then

371
00:22:21,120 --> 00:22:25,500
that's where you kind of come
into the situation where it

372
00:22:25,500 --> 00:22:29,520
really takes more to be a
success than than just the

373
00:22:29,520 --> 00:22:32,070
coding of a product. I mean,
there's a lot of other things,

374
00:22:32,070 --> 00:22:35,100
you know, how you deal with
customers, how you market, how

375
00:22:35,100 --> 00:22:38,070
you position your stuff, and you
just really have to do it

376
00:22:38,070 --> 00:22:41,460
exactly how you want it. And
that's really the key.

377
00:22:42,360 --> 00:22:45,060
Robert Plank: And and, I mean,
it kind of ties back to in the

378
00:22:45,060 --> 00:22:47,220
beginning you were talking
about? Well, you know, I'm a

379
00:22:47,220 --> 00:22:50,640
marketer. And I made a lot of
these guys. They're just coders

380
00:22:50,640 --> 00:22:53,460
and they'll just, you know, copy
what you have. But then they

381
00:22:53,460 --> 00:22:55,710
don't have the marketing, they
don't have the traffic, they

382
00:22:55,710 --> 00:22:57,690
don't have the list, they don't
have the customer support. So

383
00:22:57,690 --> 00:23:02,100
it's like, they feel like
they've cloned you, but they've

384
00:23:02,100 --> 00:23:04,290
only got like, 10% of it. Right.

385
00:23:04,439 --> 00:23:07,439
Unknown: Yeah. You know, and I
mean, you're right, you said a

386
00:23:07,469 --> 00:23:09,779
lot of these guys are just
coders and stuff. And I mean,

387
00:23:09,779 --> 00:23:14,039
some of them don't even have
really good English skills. And,

388
00:23:14,429 --> 00:23:18,509
you know, a lot of people ask
me, like, what does it take to

389
00:23:18,509 --> 00:23:24,239
have, you know, a successful
website or a successful product

390
00:23:24,239 --> 00:23:27,119
that's being sold on the
website. And like, you know, it

391
00:23:27,119 --> 00:23:31,349
really is not that complicated.
You know, there's not like,

392
00:23:31,349 --> 00:23:34,439
there's just a magic formula,
you know, you hear about the

393
00:23:34,439 --> 00:23:37,589
other copywriting formula, you
have, you know, a specific

394
00:23:37,589 --> 00:23:41,309
headline and testimonials and
stuff. Here. Here's really the

395
00:23:41,309 --> 00:23:48,209
magic formula. And it all boils
down to one very, very simple

396
00:23:48,209 --> 00:23:52,649
thing. When somebody finds out
about your product, and they

397
00:23:52,649 --> 00:23:59,369
come to the website, do they get
this feeling of? Wow, this is

398
00:23:59,459 --> 00:24:05,789
exactly what I was looking for
exactly what I was looking for.

399
00:24:06,149 --> 00:24:10,919
And the majority of the time
when you go somewhere, you don't

400
00:24:10,919 --> 00:24:14,879
say yes to that answer, you
know, or that question. You look

401
00:24:14,879 --> 00:24:18,449
at it, you're like, Man, I think
this is what I'm looking for,

402
00:24:18,449 --> 00:24:23,069
but I'm not sure if it does
this, you know, I'm not sure

403
00:24:23,099 --> 00:24:27,809
some I just they haven't really
described this thing properly.

404
00:24:28,019 --> 00:24:31,019
Maybe it does this or maybe it
does, I'm just not sure you

405
00:24:31,019 --> 00:24:35,609
ultimately need to your visitors
need to come there and look at

406
00:24:35,609 --> 00:24:40,829
what you have, and say this is
exactly what I wanted. And if

407
00:24:40,829 --> 00:24:43,859
you can get some people saying
that you're going to have a home

408
00:24:43,859 --> 00:24:48,299
run and an extremely successful
product. So how do you do that?

409
00:24:49,079 --> 00:24:54,119
Well, I mean, you do it a
multiple of ways. And number one

410
00:24:54,149 --> 00:24:58,379
is you have to put yourself in
the position of a customer and

411
00:24:58,409 --> 00:25:01,829
sometimes that's not always easy
because, you know, you're

412
00:25:01,829 --> 00:25:07,019
thinking, you're thinking, Oh,
this is exactly what everybody

413
00:25:07,019 --> 00:25:10,799
wants, and then you're not
really the end user. So you

414
00:25:10,799 --> 00:25:13,589
really need to be an end user of
your product, meaning I'm

415
00:25:13,589 --> 00:25:17,129
building something that I would
use for myself as well. You

416
00:25:17,129 --> 00:25:20,669
know, we rebuild WishList Member
for membership sites, we also

417
00:25:20,669 --> 00:25:24,719
run membership sites. So we have
a pretty good pulse. Now, once

418
00:25:24,719 --> 00:25:29,519
you once you get to the point
where you're selling it, and now

419
00:25:29,519 --> 00:25:31,649
you're going to be getting a
feedback from your current

420
00:25:31,649 --> 00:25:35,459
customers. And you know, I wish
you could do that. And you

421
00:25:35,459 --> 00:25:39,389
touched on this, Robert,
earlier, you can't do everything

422
00:25:39,389 --> 00:25:44,159
that every customer asked for.
But when people are asking for

423
00:25:44,159 --> 00:25:47,249
things, and many people are
asking for the same thing, it's

424
00:25:47,249 --> 00:25:49,799
a pretty good indication of
that's a popular thing. And you

425
00:25:49,799 --> 00:25:53,669
really should implement it.
Another thing is, when you're

426
00:25:53,669 --> 00:25:57,059
early getting started out, get
some of your friends or your

427
00:25:57,059 --> 00:26:02,249
family members to take a look at
it at your website and say, Tell

428
00:26:02,249 --> 00:26:05,969
me what you think about this.
And sometimes they'll just say,

429
00:26:06,239 --> 00:26:11,219
Wow, I totally get it. I
understand what you do now. But

430
00:26:11,219 --> 00:26:14,309
sometimes they're like, I don't
understand this. And the reason

431
00:26:14,309 --> 00:26:17,669
why is you you just
automatically assumed, like, for

432
00:26:17,669 --> 00:26:22,979
example, WishList Member, you
know, we might have initially

433
00:26:22,979 --> 00:26:25,859
just automatically assumed
people were running WordPress on

434
00:26:25,859 --> 00:26:29,819
their website, you know, but
somebody new, they're like, Oh,

435
00:26:29,819 --> 00:26:33,389
I get it, you're doing a
membership software. They don't

436
00:26:33,389 --> 00:26:36,629
even know what WordPress is. So
you got to be very, very

437
00:26:36,629 --> 00:26:40,859
specific and explain that. So
that's just kind of an example.

438
00:26:41,459 --> 00:26:45,479
And there are also some of these
other sites that have popped up

439
00:26:45,479 --> 00:26:52,499
recently, where you can go and
request feedback. I think one of

440
00:26:52,499 --> 00:26:56,519
them's like feedback, army.com,
or something like that. But you

441
00:26:56,519 --> 00:27:00,989
can pay like 100 bucks, and you
get people fresh people that are

442
00:27:00,989 --> 00:27:03,869
reviewers that don't know
anything about your site, and

443
00:27:03,869 --> 00:27:06,539
they will go to your website,
and they'll just record their

444
00:27:06,539 --> 00:27:10,199
first reaction. That's an
awesome way to find out what

445
00:27:10,199 --> 00:27:12,119
people are thinking when they
hit your website.

446
00:27:12,810 --> 00:27:15,690
Robert Plank: Especially if
they're not the crowd, you're

447
00:27:15,690 --> 00:27:18,390
used to if there's like, like a
mass market coming in off the

448
00:27:18,390 --> 00:27:21,900
street type of person. Yeah, for
sure. Well, that's cool. No, I

449
00:27:21,900 --> 00:27:23,940
mean, I know we're, we're out of
time. But in the last couple

450
00:27:23,940 --> 00:27:27,570
minutes, I want to talk to you
about WishList Member, because

451
00:27:27,570 --> 00:27:32,640
it's like, it's too good to pass
up. I mean, I mean, you guys,

452
00:27:32,640 --> 00:27:35,070
definitely, you know, you guys
weren't the first membership

453
00:27:35,070 --> 00:27:38,100
software definitely weren't even
like the first like 2030, or

454
00:27:38,100 --> 00:27:42,600
probably even like 100. But as
far as I saw, I mean, before a

455
00:27:42,600 --> 00:27:45,150
wish list member came out, if
you wanted to have a membership

456
00:27:45,150 --> 00:27:48,990
site, you'd have to kind of, you
know, install this software,

457
00:27:49,020 --> 00:27:52,380
tweak these files, add all these
other plugins, I mean, setting

458
00:27:52,380 --> 00:27:55,740
up one membership site used to
take a whole day pretty much.

459
00:27:56,040 --> 00:27:59,700
And you guys were the first,
like big, or I guess, like, you

460
00:27:59,700 --> 00:28:05,040
know, popular membership
software that ran as a WordPress

461
00:28:05,040 --> 00:28:07,830
plugin. And, you know, ever
since then, there's been a lot

462
00:28:07,830 --> 00:28:11,670
of, I guess, copycats, but
that's just kind of going back

463
00:28:11,670 --> 00:28:14,340
to like we're talking about,
people already had membership

464
00:28:14,340 --> 00:28:19,050
software. But then, you know,
when when you tried to set up

465
00:28:19,050 --> 00:28:22,950
member sites, or Sue did, it was
such an ordeal. And so you guys

466
00:28:23,460 --> 00:28:26,580
really, like filled the hole in
the marketplace? So I mean, how

467
00:28:26,580 --> 00:28:29,190
did you? How'd you get involved
in that one?

468
00:28:29,790 --> 00:28:35,670
Unknown: Well, that is really a
great story. I mean, I don't

469
00:28:35,670 --> 00:28:39,750
know if you ever knew this or
not. But Stu and I have been

470
00:28:40,170 --> 00:28:45,510
great friends for a very long
time. Probably like, nine years,

471
00:28:45,540 --> 00:28:50,970
maybe. And whenever I used to
teach at seminars, I would speak

472
00:28:50,970 --> 00:28:56,250
at seminars. And I used to sell
products from the stage. And I

473
00:28:56,250 --> 00:28:59,100
had done a fair amount of
speaking of seminars and selling

474
00:28:59,100 --> 00:29:03,000
products. But the very first
time I was speaking at a seminar

475
00:29:03,000 --> 00:29:06,960
and selling my own product,
which was, here's how you can

476
00:29:06,960 --> 00:29:09,180
create your own information
products. I've taught people how

477
00:29:09,180 --> 00:29:11,760
to record themselves in the
audio and stuff. You know,

478
00:29:11,760 --> 00:29:15,360
you're always a little nervous,
and you're not sure if anybody's

479
00:29:15,360 --> 00:29:19,920
going to buy it. So I made my
presentation, then I made my

480
00:29:19,920 --> 00:29:24,510
offer. And the first person in
the room to stand up and buy my

481
00:29:25,530 --> 00:29:30,900
product was Stu McLaren. And so
Stu was my very first customer.

482
00:29:31,230 --> 00:29:34,530
And we developed a great
friendship. And then, over the

483
00:29:34,530 --> 00:29:40,140
years, Stu had just become
phenomenal marketer. And Stu had

484
00:29:40,140 --> 00:29:46,680
never really done any software
products or any real products

485
00:29:46,680 --> 00:29:49,800
where he was selling products
over and over and over like we

486
00:29:49,800 --> 00:29:53,670
talked about earlier in this
interview. And so I told him

487
00:29:53,700 --> 00:29:56,610
kind of where I was at and I was
kind of shifting gears and I had

488
00:29:56,610 --> 00:30:00,570
assembled a software development
team and I said, you know, we

489
00:30:00,570 --> 00:30:04,680
can build anything. And I was
kind of in the midst of looking

490
00:30:04,680 --> 00:30:07,440
for a new project. And he said,
Man, I have some great ideas.

491
00:30:07,710 --> 00:30:13,290
And so the idea initially was a
membership solution. And, you

492
00:30:13,290 --> 00:30:19,440
know, exactly like you said,
Stu, was very frustrated in

493
00:30:19,440 --> 00:30:23,100
trying to set it up. I mean,
just very similar to what I said

494
00:30:23,130 --> 00:30:25,800
earlier on about the Sorenson
squeezed people like,

495
00:30:26,100 --> 00:30:29,100
everybody's using this product,
but everybody's saying the same

496
00:30:29,100 --> 00:30:33,420
thing. It's complicated. And,
you know, I won't mention any

497
00:30:33,420 --> 00:30:38,070
names of software programs,
because it only will mention a

498
00:30:38,070 --> 00:30:43,740
member ship software. I won't
throw them under the bus. But I

499
00:30:43,740 --> 00:30:48,900
will tell you that Stu was
trying to set up a member.

500
00:30:49,770 --> 00:30:56,700
Right. And so anyways, yeah, he
was using a member, and he just

501
00:30:56,700 --> 00:30:59,790
couldn't get it. And, you know,
Steve's actually a pretty

502
00:30:59,790 --> 00:31:02,880
technical guy, you know, he can
set up a website and stuff. And

503
00:31:02,880 --> 00:31:06,810
I'm, like, if, if I can't do
this, there's got to be tons of

504
00:31:06,810 --> 00:31:10,470
other people that can't do it.
And so you're right. There were

505
00:31:10,470 --> 00:31:15,000
maybe a hand a couple of other
programs that were actually

506
00:31:15,120 --> 00:31:19,620
WordPress plugins. And they
actually had kind of a major

507
00:31:19,620 --> 00:31:24,690
flaw in them as well. And the
big flaw that we saw is, number

508
00:31:24,690 --> 00:31:27,540
one, they weren't doing what the
customers wanted, because these

509
00:31:27,540 --> 00:31:31,440
guys were coders. And they were
running membership sites. And,

510
00:31:32,040 --> 00:31:36,150
but the other flaw is, what they
were doing is they were building

511
00:31:36,150 --> 00:31:41,100
kind of a membership solution,
and then turning it into a

512
00:31:41,100 --> 00:31:44,820
WordPress plugin. Okay, so the
difference is, it looked like

513
00:31:44,820 --> 00:31:48,300
what they originally built, but
then they just made it work for

514
00:31:48,300 --> 00:31:53,640
WordPress, afterthought. Yeah.
So what we did instead was like,

515
00:31:53,940 --> 00:31:56,160
this thing is going to be a
WordPress plug in from the

516
00:31:56,160 --> 00:32:00,840
beginning. And so the way we
built it was like, Man, this is

517
00:32:00,870 --> 00:32:04,140
all the functionality that
WordPress should have had to run

518
00:32:04,140 --> 00:32:07,890
membership sites, it looked like
WordPress, it felt like

519
00:32:07,890 --> 00:32:13,980
WordPress, it was WordPress. And
so people were completely, you

520
00:32:13,980 --> 00:32:16,560
know, drawn to just like, Man,
this just all makes sense. So

521
00:32:16,560 --> 00:32:20,400
that's really kind of how we got
into that, and kind of

522
00:32:20,400 --> 00:32:24,360
differentiated ourselves. And
really, just as we were going, I

523
00:32:24,360 --> 00:32:28,800
mean, Suez did a great job with
all the marketing and building

524
00:32:28,800 --> 00:32:32,730
up the community. And we also
really, really focused on

525
00:32:32,730 --> 00:32:36,180
listening to the customers and
what they wanted. And we just

526
00:32:36,180 --> 00:32:37,320
continue to do that.

527
00:32:38,160 --> 00:32:41,730
Robert Plank: And that's one way
that I mean, that last, I'm

528
00:32:41,730 --> 00:32:43,650
really like, wish this. And when
we tell people about it, we're

529
00:32:43,650 --> 00:32:48,000
like, Well, I mean, I'm sure
there's lots of other lots of

530
00:32:48,000 --> 00:32:52,890
other membership solutions that
will give you digital access to

531
00:32:52,920 --> 00:32:57,900
a membership site. And, and
they'll try to, you know,

532
00:32:57,900 --> 00:32:59,910
they'll, they'll do things like
they'll match feature by

533
00:32:59,910 --> 00:33:02,700
feature. And they'll say, Well,
we do we do, you know, 50 extra

534
00:33:02,700 --> 00:33:05,400
things? And we'll say, well,
that's fine. Except for you're

535
00:33:05,400 --> 00:33:08,370
probably not going to use all
those 50 things. And it's so

536
00:33:08,370 --> 00:33:10,980
complicated to use. I mean,
wouldn't you? I don't know, it's

537
00:33:10,980 --> 00:33:13,980
like, which is better, a simple
membership plugin that does what

538
00:33:13,980 --> 00:33:16,800
you want, and you can use it or
one that does all kinds of crazy

539
00:33:16,800 --> 00:33:19,590
stuff, but you can't even figure
out how to how to turn it off.

540
00:33:20,190 --> 00:33:25,530
Unknown: Yeah, and, you know,
Robert, some of those other

541
00:33:26,250 --> 00:33:29,940
competitors and stuff, you know,
yeah, you know, I can't I can't

542
00:33:29,940 --> 00:33:32,100
knock them down. You know, I
mean, some of them have some

543
00:33:32,160 --> 00:33:36,060
pretty good solutions. But one
of the things that we hear a lot

544
00:33:36,060 --> 00:33:39,420
of times, like, man, the owner
of the company actually got on

545
00:33:39,420 --> 00:33:42,750
the phone with me and installed
this thing for me. And I'm

546
00:33:42,750 --> 00:33:47,100
thinking, what's wrong with that
picture? You know, I realized

547
00:33:47,100 --> 00:33:49,380
that that's a good thing where
somebody gave you really good

548
00:33:49,380 --> 00:33:53,730
customer, but if the owner of
the company has to get on and

549
00:33:53,730 --> 00:34:00,630
install the thing for you, is it
really that easy to do? You

550
00:34:00,630 --> 00:34:05,430
know, okay, that might be the
one that you want. But that's

551
00:34:05,430 --> 00:34:09,540
not what we want. We want it to
be a scenario where we have

552
00:34:09,540 --> 00:34:12,960
1000s of customers that can do
it on their own. And we have a

553
00:34:12,960 --> 00:34:15,630
support team that backs them up
whenever they get into trouble.

554
00:34:15,990 --> 00:34:19,560
And I mean, that would just be I
just couldn't live my life,

555
00:34:20,220 --> 00:34:24,540
dealing with calls all day long,
doing customer support, and also

556
00:34:24,540 --> 00:34:27,510
trying to run a company just
without being back to trading

557
00:34:27,540 --> 00:34:29,850
dollars for hours. Right.
Exactly. Yeah.

558
00:34:30,360 --> 00:34:32,430
Robert Plank: So I mean, just
just to my understand your role

559
00:34:32,430 --> 00:34:36,990
in this, so pretty much Sue
said, I have an idea for a word,

560
00:34:37,020 --> 00:34:40,890
a membership plug in that's
actually built in WordPress, he

561
00:34:40,890 --> 00:34:45,690
designed it and then and you
then you did you like, like

562
00:34:45,690 --> 00:34:48,750
improve the designs or your job
was like you made it in terms

563
00:34:48,750 --> 00:34:51,180
like a programmer to understand
or, I mean, what role did you

564
00:34:51,180 --> 00:34:51,810
play in that?

565
00:34:52,410 --> 00:34:55,440
Unknown: Well, I really kind of
had the role of just sort of

566
00:34:55,440 --> 00:34:58,830
piecing the whole team together,
you know, and, like, here's what

567
00:34:58,830 --> 00:35:02,460
we want to accomplish. Shouldn't
here's, you know, some of the

568
00:35:02,490 --> 00:35:05,730
some of the sometimes, like,
with the technical details, like

569
00:35:05,730 --> 00:35:08,820
with databases and stuff that,
you know, that kind of falls in,

570
00:35:08,820 --> 00:35:12,030
like, I just have to explain
what, what it is that a customer

571
00:35:12,030 --> 00:35:14,550
is going to use. And there's
just a lot of little decisions

572
00:35:14,580 --> 00:35:19,770
along the way. But I really do,
and I acted very much as a team,

573
00:35:20,100 --> 00:35:23,910
continuously working with the
programmers and such. And I

574
00:35:23,910 --> 00:35:27,360
mean, we're just very fortunate
that I found, you know, an

575
00:35:27,390 --> 00:35:34,140
excellent programmer that can
really take in. You know, and,

576
00:35:34,380 --> 00:35:37,170
and that's one of the things
that I've learned along the way

577
00:35:37,170 --> 00:35:40,350
is, you know, a lot of times
people will say, Yeah, well,

578
00:35:40,650 --> 00:35:44,250
that's good for you. But the
program is I'm working with, he

579
00:35:44,250 --> 00:35:46,920
just, he just can't get things
done like that. And it's like,

580
00:35:46,920 --> 00:35:50,100
Well, you got a major problem,
you need to get rid of the

581
00:35:50,100 --> 00:35:53,340
person and find somebody else.
You know, just because you've

582
00:35:53,340 --> 00:35:55,590
liked a person doesn't mean that
they're always going to get the

583
00:35:55,590 --> 00:36:00,270
job done. So you really do need
to have some good talent that

584
00:36:00,270 --> 00:36:02,280
can do the things that you're
asking for.

585
00:36:03,210 --> 00:36:05,400
Robert Plank: Makes sense to me.
And that's such, I mean, I think

586
00:36:05,400 --> 00:36:08,100
that's such a good way just to,
you know, wrap this all up, tie

587
00:36:08,100 --> 00:36:11,370
this all together is that, I
mean, you don't have to do

588
00:36:11,370 --> 00:36:14,760
everything yourself. And there's
some things that, you know,

589
00:36:14,760 --> 00:36:18,180
you'll never be good at. So you
know, why even try just, you

590
00:36:18,180 --> 00:36:22,740
know, focus on what's fun for
you what you're good at. And

591
00:36:22,740 --> 00:36:26,370
then if it comes down to, you
know, maybe if, if you can put

592
00:36:26,370 --> 00:36:28,140
some of your own skills in there
with like, you know, designing

593
00:36:28,140 --> 00:36:31,770
the database or figuring out
like, what's the best way to

594
00:36:31,770 --> 00:36:33,840
like structure this, but then
when it comes down to things

595
00:36:33,840 --> 00:36:36,450
like, you know, coding and
things like that, you don't need

596
00:36:36,450 --> 00:36:39,570
to know everything, you just
have the right person to do it.

597
00:36:39,870 --> 00:36:42,420
Unknown: Yeah, absolutely.
Having the right people is

598
00:36:42,420 --> 00:36:46,770
always key. And, and it goes
back to the example that I said,

599
00:36:47,490 --> 00:36:51,270
as being a contractor on a
house, you're going to tell me

600
00:36:51,270 --> 00:36:56,430
exactly what you want. And I
need to take your vision,

601
00:36:56,700 --> 00:37:00,690
saying, hey, Roberts really
wanting to build this nice

602
00:37:00,690 --> 00:37:03,570
house, and he's going to want it
done, right. And if I go in

603
00:37:03,570 --> 00:37:07,170
there, and I have somebody
that's, that's not a really good

604
00:37:07,170 --> 00:37:11,220
plumber, is just going to make
me look bad. You know, like, I

605
00:37:11,220 --> 00:37:15,180
gotta have the right people to
do these things. Because my job

606
00:37:15,450 --> 00:37:19,770
is to make sure that the end
result is what's going to work.

607
00:37:19,860 --> 00:37:24,990
And that's really sums it all
up. You need to make sure that

608
00:37:24,990 --> 00:37:30,090
what gets done was your vision.
And that's what the customers

609
00:37:30,090 --> 00:37:32,490
wanted that that's really it
boils down to that.

610
00:37:33,300 --> 00:37:35,640
Robert Plank: And it's the
funny, especially with software

611
00:37:35,640 --> 00:37:39,900
is that. I mean, you really do
have to be kind of like a neat

612
00:37:39,900 --> 00:37:42,900
freak here. I mean, like, I
mean, as someone who doesn't

613
00:37:42,900 --> 00:37:44,850
know, software, they'll say, Oh,
I mean, they'll have a picture

614
00:37:44,850 --> 00:37:47,190
in the head of I wanted to look
this way. And they'll explain

615
00:37:47,190 --> 00:37:49,590
it, and they'll assume people
know. But I mean, if you don't

616
00:37:49,590 --> 00:37:51,720
say, I mean, like you said with
like the countdown timer, if you

617
00:37:51,720 --> 00:37:55,410
don't say separate hours,
minutes, seconds, yeah, these up

618
00:37:55,410 --> 00:37:58,110
and down arrows, and then see
what the comeback was and say,

619
00:37:58,110 --> 00:37:59,910
Well chant, you know, you might
have to go through several

620
00:37:59,970 --> 00:38:03,270
iterations. But it's like, you
almost have to be like, overly

621
00:38:03,270 --> 00:38:06,600
tedious and just be like, well,
even though you don't say like,

622
00:38:06,600 --> 00:38:09,600
well, it's got to be a gray
button, and have like, the

623
00:38:09,600 --> 00:38:12,900
triangular arrow just because I
mean, that's the way that the

624
00:38:12,900 --> 00:38:16,980
ones look, right? Oh, yeah.
Yeah. Well, cool. So I mean, we

625
00:38:16,980 --> 00:38:20,340
talked about a lot of cool,
interesting stuff. Today, I'm

626
00:38:20,340 --> 00:38:23,550
really glad I finally heard the
story of, you know, how you got

627
00:38:23,550 --> 00:38:28,980
into information marketing, how
you, you know, went from

628
00:38:29,220 --> 00:38:32,670
designing databases for others
into making your own products

629
00:38:32,670 --> 00:38:35,130
into kind of just saying, what
now I'm going to, you know,

630
00:38:35,130 --> 00:38:37,920
establish the business and I'm
going to establish this, you

631
00:38:37,920 --> 00:38:40,200
know, I know this guy who is an
artist, I'm gonna get all the

632
00:38:40,320 --> 00:38:44,040
system in place, get the order
system, the sales letter, all

633
00:38:44,040 --> 00:38:46,560
that shopping cart, all this
stuff, and make a caricature

634
00:38:46,560 --> 00:38:50,100
site. You know, things like
every producer, where you have

635
00:38:50,100 --> 00:38:54,390
the software made, and then you
use it, and you figure it out,

636
00:38:54,420 --> 00:38:57,060
you know, how you would want it
to behave, what improvements you

637
00:38:57,060 --> 00:39:00,210
wanted to make, then got
customer feedback, or even saw

638
00:39:00,210 --> 00:39:04,650
how people would use it without
even knowing about the software

639
00:39:04,650 --> 00:39:08,910
and kind of making it more
intuitive. And I mean, I don't

640
00:39:08,910 --> 00:39:12,120
know, I guess there's, there's
always things where someone

641
00:39:12,120 --> 00:39:14,400
makes a statement, and it kind
of sticks with me, like my

642
00:39:14,400 --> 00:39:17,550
entire life and something one
thing that that you said to me a

643
00:39:17,550 --> 00:39:21,270
couple of years ago was and
we've talked about this before,

644
00:39:21,270 --> 00:39:24,180
when we're talking about the
support desk, you told me that

645
00:39:24,180 --> 00:39:28,740
for this fo a producer piece of
software that you had not even

646
00:39:28,740 --> 00:39:34,320
logged in to the support desk in
like two years I think. And even

647
00:39:34,320 --> 00:39:37,080
that was like two years ago so I
mean now it's been like four

648
00:39:37,080 --> 00:39:40,200
years so I mean as soon as he
told me that it just blew my

649
00:39:40,200 --> 00:39:43,620
mind it changed the way I looked
at the entire thing I you know,

650
00:39:43,620 --> 00:39:47,250
I realized that I don't have to
do everything myself. And it's

651
00:39:47,250 --> 00:39:51,720
kind of it kind of is cool to
get to the point where no one

652
00:39:51,720 --> 00:39:54,000
really knows what you maybe even
eat or know what you do you just

653
00:39:54,000 --> 00:39:57,450
the guy who you're like the
owner, the contractor you do the

654
00:39:57,450 --> 00:40:00,810
fun, like high level setting up
stuff, maybe First you do a

655
00:40:00,810 --> 00:40:03,180
little bit of the work and
figure out, you know, how am I

656
00:40:03,180 --> 00:40:06,840
going to answer these top five
top 10 questions, maybe you're

657
00:40:06,840 --> 00:40:09,450
going to figure out well, I'm
going to tweak this in the sales

658
00:40:09,450 --> 00:40:12,000
letter or changes in the
software. But then what's so

659
00:40:12,000 --> 00:40:14,820
cool about digital products,
information, marketing,

660
00:40:14,820 --> 00:40:19,230
software, all that good stuff,
is that once it's set up, then

661
00:40:19,230 --> 00:40:23,430
it's done. And so I mean, then
you have it sell over and over.

662
00:40:23,580 --> 00:40:27,630
And so then, and so I really
want to thank you for helping

663
00:40:27,630 --> 00:40:30,540
everyone who wants to know how
to make software because they

664
00:40:30,540 --> 00:40:34,050
should just go to V worker, and
then maybe describe maybe look

665
00:40:34,050 --> 00:40:38,370
at some of the other jobs use
this tool, like a gene to kind

666
00:40:38,370 --> 00:40:42,600
of record a video and show, you
know, I want to look like this,

667
00:40:42,600 --> 00:40:47,100
and we base it on this other
competitor, or maybe even draw

668
00:40:47,310 --> 00:40:50,940
what the design looked like. And
I liked the way he broke down.

669
00:40:50,940 --> 00:40:53,220
She said, Well, there's like,
there's the design part of it,

670
00:40:53,220 --> 00:40:55,680
like we use the Countess, and
remember, there's the design.

671
00:40:56,040 --> 00:40:58,140
And then there's like the
functionality, like maybe

672
00:40:58,140 --> 00:41:01,620
there's these buttons, but then
also there's, they're like,

673
00:41:02,190 --> 00:41:04,110
they're pretty much like making
like a tutorial like, well,

674
00:41:04,170 --> 00:41:06,990
there's the look, and there's
the buttons, but if one could

675
00:41:06,990 --> 00:41:11,910
actually use it, maybe I would,
you know, set this time, then

676
00:41:11,910 --> 00:41:14,790
hit the start button, and then
it will start counting. And I

677
00:41:14,790 --> 00:41:18,030
think a lot of programmers or
coders who don't actually use

678
00:41:18,030 --> 00:41:20,820
the thing they're making, they
really missed that. They just

679
00:41:20,820 --> 00:41:23,190
say, Well, you know, it's gonna
be a membership plugin. It'll

680
00:41:23,190 --> 00:41:26,910
have all these strings. I'm
done. But the way that I kind of

681
00:41:26,910 --> 00:41:30,120
see, the way that wishes was
designed, is you kind of design

682
00:41:30,120 --> 00:41:34,170
as well, what's the easiest way
for someone to install it?

683
00:41:34,200 --> 00:41:37,440
What's the easiest way for
someone to now allow someone to

684
00:41:37,920 --> 00:41:41,010
purchase access using the soft
internet? I mean, like, there's

685
00:41:41,010 --> 00:41:44,400
not just the look and design,
but there's also like the steps

686
00:41:45,030 --> 00:41:48,780
someone goes through. And I hope
everyone listening got that

687
00:41:48,810 --> 00:41:52,650
website was called feedback
army. And I've never heard of

688
00:41:52,650 --> 00:41:55,080
that, I'm going to try it out
myself where you can have people

689
00:41:55,380 --> 00:42:00,750
try out your website and give
you feedback on what were their

690
00:42:00,750 --> 00:42:04,320
first impressions. And I mean,
you just solidified how

691
00:42:04,530 --> 00:42:08,130
important it is to, you know,
have your own team have your own

692
00:42:08,130 --> 00:42:11,610
products, because if it wasn't
for all those assets, all that

693
00:42:11,610 --> 00:42:14,610
stuff, you had a notion to be in
with the system, then you would

694
00:42:14,610 --> 00:42:19,650
not have partner with Sue on
wishlist. And I would I would

695
00:42:19,650 --> 00:42:22,200
say that which is probably would
not have been made or wouldn't

696
00:42:22,200 --> 00:42:25,950
have been nearly as popular as
it was you guys work together,

697
00:42:25,950 --> 00:42:29,100
you guys had the vision, you had
a design, and then put it out

698
00:42:29,100 --> 00:42:32,970
there, got the feedback, saw
what other people were doing

699
00:42:32,970 --> 00:42:35,160
with membership software stuff
the customers need and saw what

700
00:42:35,160 --> 00:42:40,260
you guys needed. And you know,
just had a way easier time

701
00:42:40,260 --> 00:42:44,220
worked way less than if you were
still doing work for clients. If

702
00:42:44,220 --> 00:42:47,550
you're still going around
setting up databases instead,

703
00:42:47,550 --> 00:42:50,580
you're like the software
contract for yourself, set it

704
00:42:50,580 --> 00:42:55,860
up. And and that's all I'll
done. So my final question to

705
00:42:55,860 --> 00:42:59,940
you is, if someone wanted to see
what you're working on what

706
00:42:59,940 --> 00:43:01,890
you're doing, where should they
go, Tracy?

707
00:43:03,480 --> 00:43:08,220
Unknown: Oh, wow, that's a good
question. You know, a lot of lot

708
00:43:08,220 --> 00:43:11,460
of people, you know, have their
own site. And I think I have a

709
00:43:11,460 --> 00:43:14,070
personal site that I haven't
updated in like three or four

710
00:43:14,070 --> 00:43:18,450
years or so, really the best
place to go to find out what I'm

711
00:43:18,450 --> 00:43:22,740
currently working on is wishlist
products.com. And that's the

712
00:43:22,740 --> 00:43:26,430
site for our company. And that
will kind of lead you off to the

713
00:43:26,430 --> 00:43:30,180
different things about WishList
Member and our wish list insider

714
00:43:30,180 --> 00:43:33,540
community and different things
of that nature. But I really

715
00:43:33,540 --> 00:43:36,240
spend the majority of my time
now on wishlist products.

716
00:43:37,140 --> 00:43:40,710
Robert Plank: wishlist
products.com. So that's it wish

717
00:43:40,710 --> 00:43:46,380
li STP or ODU cts.com. So I
mean, what are you going to

718
00:43:47,130 --> 00:43:49,560
start using Twitter man, I
thought you were finally getting

719
00:43:49,560 --> 00:43:50,070
on that.

720
00:43:50,730 --> 00:43:55,920
Unknown: Yeah, I I've done a
little bit of it and just just

721
00:43:55,920 --> 00:43:56,970
too lazy, I guess.

722
00:43:57,720 --> 00:44:00,330
Robert Plank: Too busy doing the
fun stuff doing the contracting.

723
00:44:01,320 --> 00:44:04,020
I don't maybe it's just go to V
worker and outsource your

724
00:44:04,020 --> 00:44:06,060
tweeting, outsource your
blogging that way. You can just

725
00:44:06,060 --> 00:44:10,020
be like, well, now everything is
outsourced. Right? Yeah. Maybe

726
00:44:10,020 --> 00:44:12,960
someday. But until then, I guess
everyone should go to wishlist

727
00:44:12,960 --> 00:44:16,830
products.com. Go ahead, go there
right now find out what new

728
00:44:16,830 --> 00:44:20,340
exciting things Chase is working
on with software, which WishList

729
00:44:20,340 --> 00:44:23,130
Member with their community
versus insider and with any

730
00:44:23,130 --> 00:44:26,040
other plugins that they are
adding. On top of that we're

731
00:44:26,040 --> 00:44:29,220
just products.com and thanks, a
bunch, Tracy Childers for

732
00:44:29,220 --> 00:44:33,960
talking to us in this extra long
session about outsourcing

733
00:44:33,960 --> 00:44:34,860
products and software.

734
00:44:35,430 --> 00:44:37,500
Unknown: Thanks a lot for having
me, Robert. I appreciate it.

735
00:44:42,090 --> 00:44:45,930
Robert Plank: Do you have wine
podcast.com forward Slash Free.

736
00:44:46,140 --> 00:44:49,200
Go there right now to see what
you could be missing in your

737
00:44:49,200 --> 00:44:54,300
podcast. Maybe you aren't active
enough on social media? Are you

738
00:44:54,330 --> 00:44:57,780
writing and broadcasting an
email for every episode of your

739
00:44:57,780 --> 00:45:01,290
podcast? Do you follow up with
your PA Podcast guests do you do

740
00:45:01,290 --> 00:45:04,710
things to make your podcast
interview and content creation

741
00:45:04,740 --> 00:45:10,200
easier go to do flight
podcast.com/free to claim your

742
00:45:10,200 --> 00:45:11,280
gift right now