1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:04,770 Robert Plank: They're Okay. Hey, welcome back to the marketer of 2 00:00:04,770 --> 00:00:08,580 the day podcast. We have Rob Greenlee from libsyn, here 3 00:00:08,580 --> 00:00:11,490 today, he has been around the block so many times with 4 00:00:11,490 --> 00:00:15,000 podcasting. He is responsible for so many innovations, and 5 00:00:15,000 --> 00:00:18,690 most importantly, making podcasting easy and fun. Rob, 6 00:00:18,720 --> 00:00:21,030 glad to see you again. It's great to be here. Thank you, 7 00:00:21,030 --> 00:00:25,200 Robert. And thank you ROM. And I mean, it's been so many years 8 00:00:25,200 --> 00:00:29,190 since we talked and what really impressed me a way back when we 9 00:00:29,190 --> 00:00:32,700 were talking about us how some of the things you've built as 10 00:00:32,700 --> 00:00:36,750 far as the podcasting space. And way back, when you had this a 11 00:00:36,750 --> 00:00:41,610 podcasting app, you have this whole platform where users could 12 00:00:41,610 --> 00:00:44,700 inject ads and older episodes, so people could just create 13 00:00:44,700 --> 00:00:48,180 their own podcast, and then kind of dynamically somehow behind 14 00:00:48,180 --> 00:00:52,470 the scenes, it could just drop in sponsorships, ads, things 15 00:00:52,470 --> 00:00:56,370 like that. And that, that really impressed me about kind of your, 16 00:00:56,430 --> 00:01:00,300 what seems to be your approach towards podcasting, which is, 17 00:01:00,360 --> 00:01:03,270 it's away from a lot of like the pretentiousness and a lot of the 18 00:01:03,270 --> 00:01:05,850 mechanics and technicalities. And it seems like you're all 19 00:01:05,850 --> 00:01:09,840 about putting it to use right, creating cool things and 20 00:01:09,900 --> 00:01:12,450 creating something that that people will use. So I'm glad to 21 00:01:12,450 --> 00:01:16,050 be talking to you and diving into what what you're currently 22 00:01:16,050 --> 00:01:19,290 passionate about. So I mean, what is was new with you? What's 23 00:01:19,290 --> 00:01:22,170 your last like six to nine months of focus here? 24 00:01:23,129 --> 00:01:26,729 Unknown: Well, I think that the focus that I've had here, you 25 00:01:26,729 --> 00:01:30,029 know, especially over the last six months, is it's just been 26 00:01:30,689 --> 00:01:34,529 trying to keep up with the changes in the medium, you know, 27 00:01:34,529 --> 00:01:40,319 the pandemic kind of reshuffled the deck a little bit of what 28 00:01:40,319 --> 00:01:43,529 was going on in the podcasting space to some degree around what 29 00:01:43,529 --> 00:01:48,119 content was popular, where people were consuming it. And 30 00:01:48,509 --> 00:01:52,019 just the continued growth of the medium and the expansion of the 31 00:01:52,019 --> 00:01:56,519 medium. In, in many, many different ways. I think to some 32 00:01:56,519 --> 00:01:59,759 degree, the the advertising market kind of pulled back a 33 00:01:59,759 --> 00:02:03,629 little bit. And and I think we're we're continuing to see a 34 00:02:03,629 --> 00:02:07,139 little bit of struggles in the advertising side of things from 35 00:02:07,139 --> 00:02:11,639 the standpoint of, you know, metrics and analytics. But as 36 00:02:11,639 --> 00:02:15,599 far as on the content side, I think podcasting is just growing 37 00:02:15,659 --> 00:02:20,639 in leaps and bounds and the listening side is growing in 38 00:02:20,669 --> 00:02:23,279 leaps and bounds. So really just trying to keep up with all that, 39 00:02:23,639 --> 00:02:29,189 and continue to provide some leadership and some vision about 40 00:02:29,189 --> 00:02:32,609 what's what's coming. But yeah, over the last year, we've just 41 00:02:32,609 --> 00:02:37,559 seen an explosion of, of new podcasting contents come into 42 00:02:37,559 --> 00:02:42,239 the medium, at least new shows, whether or not you know, most of 43 00:02:42,239 --> 00:02:45,329 those new shows really stick around and continue producing 44 00:02:45,329 --> 00:02:49,259 content is really a much deeper question. But But I think 45 00:02:49,259 --> 00:02:54,779 overall, just the quality of podcasts and what's what's going 46 00:02:54,779 --> 00:02:58,229 on out there has been growing and the amount of people 47 00:02:58,229 --> 00:03:01,979 listening to podcasts on a global scale is also another 48 00:03:01,979 --> 00:03:06,359 factor here that is, is especially new, you know, I 49 00:03:06,359 --> 00:03:11,009 think that the pandemic really kind of opened up the floodgates 50 00:03:11,009 --> 00:03:16,109 on people's recognition that they can produce online content. 51 00:03:16,109 --> 00:03:20,309 So that's, that's how, you know, I've also upped my game in this 52 00:03:20,309 --> 00:03:23,879 area to I've got more of a professional production studio 53 00:03:23,879 --> 00:03:28,619 in my office now that has studio lights and high quality cameras 54 00:03:28,619 --> 00:03:33,329 and, and things that I can do more online, just because you 55 00:03:33,329 --> 00:03:36,929 know, there weren't any live events going on. So, which is 56 00:03:36,929 --> 00:03:39,029 prior to the pandemic, I was spending a lot of time 57 00:03:39,029 --> 00:03:41,999 traveling, going to podcasting conferences all over the country 58 00:03:41,999 --> 00:03:45,389 and, and that just came to a screeching halt. So I would say 59 00:03:45,389 --> 00:03:47,849 that those are the big things that I've been trying to try and 60 00:03:47,849 --> 00:03:48,539 keep up with. 61 00:03:49,409 --> 00:03:52,139 Robert Plank: And there's lots to think about there. And, and 62 00:03:52,199 --> 00:03:56,459 even before the pandemic, I was already dialing back my 63 00:03:56,459 --> 00:03:58,829 attending of events, I was getting a little bored with it, 64 00:03:58,829 --> 00:04:01,229 or I would maybe attend something close like something 65 00:04:01,229 --> 00:04:03,869 that was like a half a day instead of a three day 66 00:04:03,869 --> 00:04:07,889 commitment. And, and it's I mean, you're so right that I 67 00:04:07,889 --> 00:04:11,369 mean, the pandadoc really mess things up for a lot of us. But 68 00:04:11,519 --> 00:04:14,339 it was like when when something in your business goes away, you 69 00:04:14,339 --> 00:04:17,399 have to figure out a way to replace it or fill the gap. And, 70 00:04:17,519 --> 00:04:20,489 and I've seen a lot of people do that, like people who usually 71 00:04:20,489 --> 00:04:23,999 attend events or have a lot of speaking gigs would replace it 72 00:04:24,089 --> 00:04:29,579 with podcasting. And sometimes it was a like a more in quantity 73 00:04:29,579 --> 00:04:32,939 situation where they figured well, I used to be able to go to 74 00:04:32,939 --> 00:04:36,899 this event and speak in front of 200 people, but now I do a 75 00:04:36,899 --> 00:04:40,739 podcast. And I mean, whatever the equivalent of that is is 76 00:04:40,739 --> 00:04:43,889 that that audience reach maybe you get more but they're not 77 00:04:43,919 --> 00:04:47,159 actual butts and seats, but then you can just be on a cop 78 00:04:47,189 --> 00:04:51,179 podcast, one after another. And then the whole thing that you 79 00:04:51,179 --> 00:04:54,269 mentioned, oh, well, the pandemic sort of forced us to up 80 00:04:54,269 --> 00:04:58,319 our game. And it seems like the technology it seemed like it was 81 00:04:58,319 --> 00:05:00,929 a long time of catching up anyway way, right, it seemed 82 00:05:00,929 --> 00:05:04,319 like like internet speeds, sped up a little bit. And as far as 83 00:05:04,319 --> 00:05:07,079 like the video conferencing finally a lot of that got 84 00:05:07,079 --> 00:05:10,589 figured out. And then I feel like you said there about the 85 00:05:10,679 --> 00:05:13,589 production quality me personally, I feel like, I 86 00:05:13,589 --> 00:05:17,759 usually wait until I really have to in order to like get better 87 00:05:17,759 --> 00:05:20,609 equipment or up my game, I'm kind of my attitude is just 88 00:05:20,609 --> 00:05:23,879 like, make the content be myself. And then if I want to 89 00:05:23,879 --> 00:05:27,119 get a better camera, I will want to get a better microphone, I 90 00:05:27,119 --> 00:05:31,949 will. And I just I feel like if that was helpful just to kind of 91 00:05:32,009 --> 00:05:35,519 maybe incrementally increase as opposed to thinking like, it has 92 00:05:35,519 --> 00:05:38,639 to be super perfect right off the bat. And so just some of 93 00:05:38,639 --> 00:05:41,009 those things that you're mentioning there, I think, are 94 00:05:41,009 --> 00:05:45,989 helpful for people to just get started. And also that issue you 95 00:05:45,989 --> 00:05:48,899 mentioned of sometimes people start a podcast, but then they 96 00:05:48,899 --> 00:05:51,449 fall out. So I'm really curious about your thoughts on that. 97 00:05:51,449 --> 00:05:54,149 Because I mean, we see that everywhere, right about they 98 00:05:54,149 --> 00:05:56,279 start with the best of intentions, they have all these 99 00:05:56,279 --> 00:05:59,639 ideas, they're excited, and then it dies. So with everything 100 00:05:59,639 --> 00:06:02,369 you're seeing the podcasting, like Why does that happen? Why 101 00:06:02,369 --> 00:06:03,989 do people fall out of podcasting? 102 00:06:05,010 --> 00:06:07,170 Unknown: Well, I think it's a combination of a lot of things, 103 00:06:07,560 --> 00:06:12,660 I think that the technology has gotten easier to use, and it's a 104 00:06:12,660 --> 00:06:15,360 lot easier. And there's free hosting platforms that are out 105 00:06:15,360 --> 00:06:18,570 there now. And, and the tools are being able to record 106 00:06:18,570 --> 00:06:24,750 something on your mobile device. And is, is basically making it 107 00:06:24,750 --> 00:06:30,360 so anybody can produce a podcast. And oftentimes that 108 00:06:30,360 --> 00:06:36,120 process can be not as thought through or planned out as it 109 00:06:36,210 --> 00:06:41,250 maybe should. And people are, you know, kicking tires, like 110 00:06:41,250 --> 00:06:44,610 they say, I mean, there's a lot of people that, that try it out, 111 00:06:44,640 --> 00:06:49,470 and it may not be for them. And that that's what is great about 112 00:06:49,710 --> 00:06:53,550 the free hosting platforms is that it's a risk free place to 113 00:06:53,550 --> 00:06:58,050 get in there and see if this is a medium for them. And I think 114 00:06:58,080 --> 00:07:00,870 that that's what we've seen happen is people up in, during 115 00:07:00,870 --> 00:07:03,600 the pandemic period, people have been searching for other ways to 116 00:07:03,600 --> 00:07:06,840 produce content online, because people were spending more time 117 00:07:06,840 --> 00:07:10,530 in their offices, they were probably upgrading their ability 118 00:07:10,530 --> 00:07:16,290 to the, you know, to get quality recordings on zoom calls. And, 119 00:07:16,650 --> 00:07:20,310 and to do two things more online. I mean, I saw in the 120 00:07:20,310 --> 00:07:23,760 early days, you probably saw it too, is that a lot of the even 121 00:07:23,760 --> 00:07:27,720 the larger media companies were really struggling with this, as 122 00:07:27,720 --> 00:07:31,440 they were, you know, a lot of their their talent on 123 00:07:31,470 --> 00:07:34,500 television, were not going into the studios anymore. So they 124 00:07:34,500 --> 00:07:37,890 were doing a lot of their stuff from home. And, and a lot of 125 00:07:37,890 --> 00:07:41,100 them were really caught off guard by, by what was happening. 126 00:07:41,100 --> 00:07:43,710 And they didn't really have their act together in their own 127 00:07:43,710 --> 00:07:47,850 home offices, because they, they really weren't producing content 128 00:07:47,850 --> 00:07:52,050 there. So we saw, I thought it was amusing during that time, 129 00:07:52,050 --> 00:07:56,340 because I've been doing online shows from my home office for 130 00:07:56,370 --> 00:08:03,810 like since, like 2002, if that tells you anything, to see these 131 00:08:03,810 --> 00:08:07,680 big, big media creators kind of struggle with this concept of 132 00:08:08,160 --> 00:08:11,790 actually setting up your home office as a place that you can 133 00:08:11,820 --> 00:08:16,500 produce online content. And, and so so that's kind of what we saw 134 00:08:16,500 --> 00:08:21,570 there as well. So people just had, you know, this extra time 135 00:08:21,570 --> 00:08:24,900 because they weren't commuting. And they thought, you know, make 136 00:08:24,900 --> 00:08:27,330 some money from podcasting. You know, there's guys like Joe 137 00:08:27,330 --> 00:08:30,960 Rogan out there, they're the sign of $100 million licensing 138 00:08:30,960 --> 00:08:33,480 deals, well, I can do the same thing. And I can make a couple 139 00:08:33,480 --> 00:08:37,530 million dollars by creating a podcast, but you know, it, it 140 00:08:37,530 --> 00:08:40,350 takes a lot of effort to create a podcast, it's not an easy 141 00:08:40,350 --> 00:08:44,070 thing to do, and to have a show that's generating a million 142 00:08:44,070 --> 00:08:48,330 dollars is not something that's that's happened very many times 143 00:08:48,330 --> 00:08:52,260 really, in truth be told so. So it has to be something very, 144 00:08:52,260 --> 00:08:56,490 very special. That gets that kind of traction. And oftentimes 145 00:08:56,490 --> 00:09:00,750 it takes years of consistent effort and, and getting your 146 00:09:00,750 --> 00:09:03,450 reputation built, getting your distribution built, creating 147 00:09:03,450 --> 00:09:07,440 better and better content, to build that community and build 148 00:09:07,440 --> 00:09:11,100 that audience. And people just, you know, think that it's gonna 149 00:09:11,100 --> 00:09:15,630 happen overnight, and it doesn't end some stop producing episodes 150 00:09:15,630 --> 00:09:19,530 because they have other things going on with their jobs, or 151 00:09:19,800 --> 00:09:23,880 they have a health problem or family obligations, you know, 152 00:09:23,910 --> 00:09:26,850 kind of get in the way those kinds of things. So it takes a 153 00:09:26,850 --> 00:09:29,970 lot of planning to start a podcast and be successful with 154 00:09:29,970 --> 00:09:31,860 it. So 155 00:09:31,890 --> 00:09:33,870 Robert Plank: So pretty much what I'm getting for your answer 156 00:09:33,870 --> 00:09:36,600 there is that people drop off a pod. Well, first of all, it 157 00:09:36,600 --> 00:09:40,350 seems like it's okay. It's not necessarily a bad thing. People 158 00:09:40,350 --> 00:09:43,440 might just have other other priorities and at least those 159 00:09:43,470 --> 00:09:46,980 those shows still live especially if they're on a free 160 00:09:46,980 --> 00:09:49,560 house and they're there's no bill to pay. Those episodes 161 00:09:49,560 --> 00:09:53,100 might live there for years decades. But But what I'm 162 00:09:53,100 --> 00:09:56,070 getting from your answer there is that podcasting is not a 163 00:09:56,070 --> 00:09:59,970 magic bullet. Right and make me think back to like the.com era. 164 00:10:00,360 --> 00:10:04,080 Where if someone thought that if they had, if they had like a 165 00:10:04,080 --> 00:10:06,630 business that was anything internet, it would get funding 166 00:10:06,660 --> 00:10:08,910 or like a few years ago it was if you did anything 167 00:10:08,910 --> 00:10:12,060 cryptocurrency or anything artificial intelligence, it was 168 00:10:12,390 --> 00:10:14,940 that buzzword. And the way you describe what they are, it's 169 00:10:14,940 --> 00:10:18,690 like, well, if you build a YouTube channel, you're not 170 00:10:18,690 --> 00:10:21,000 going to make a million dollars right off the bat if you build a 171 00:10:21,000 --> 00:10:24,120 blog. And so this whole podcasting thing, it seems to be 172 00:10:24,120 --> 00:10:28,110 just another way, like a different kind of mode, to make 173 00:10:28,110 --> 00:10:31,830 your own content and to reach other sorts of people. And sure 174 00:10:31,830 --> 00:10:34,770 they're out there. It seems like every year there's another bump 175 00:10:34,800 --> 00:10:39,480 in listenership maybe due to like cars or smart speakers or, 176 00:10:39,570 --> 00:10:42,960 or people have more time at home with pandemics. So it's like not 177 00:10:42,960 --> 00:10:48,690 not just a magic bullet. And so, as far as what people are doing, 178 00:10:48,690 --> 00:10:51,840 right, right, like you said that, you know, sometimes we it 179 00:10:51,840 --> 00:10:54,120 takes a while to get the home office space set up, even if 180 00:10:54,120 --> 00:10:57,150 you're like a late night talk show host. And so what do you 181 00:10:57,150 --> 00:11:01,200 like, happening with podcasts? Are you like me? Do you like 182 00:11:01,200 --> 00:11:05,100 seeing the quality steadily increase? Or do you think that, 183 00:11:05,130 --> 00:11:07,740 like you said, do we do we need more of a plan? Like, what do 184 00:11:07,740 --> 00:11:10,860 you like about podcasting, especially about what who you 185 00:11:10,860 --> 00:11:12,930 see as the successful podcasters? 186 00:11:14,190 --> 00:11:16,680 Unknown: Well, I see, I mean, it's always been an energizing 187 00:11:16,680 --> 00:11:20,700 medium for me, I mean, I've been working in the medium, kind of 188 00:11:20,700 --> 00:11:23,940 on the platform side content, working with content creators 189 00:11:23,940 --> 00:11:29,220 for over 17 years. So it's, it's been something that I've seen 190 00:11:29,220 --> 00:11:33,960 since the very, very, very beginning. And people you know, 191 00:11:33,960 --> 00:11:38,460 the people in this medium, are, are really dynamic, really 192 00:11:38,490 --> 00:11:42,540 interesting people, they have an inspiration to share with 193 00:11:42,540 --> 00:11:47,790 others, and to collaborate. And I'm very, very much a 194 00:11:47,820 --> 00:11:51,960 partnership building kind of collaborator. And really, from 195 00:11:51,960 --> 00:11:56,400 the very early days of my efforts, in my, my, my radio 196 00:11:56,400 --> 00:11:59,970 show that I started out with back in 1999, is about getting 197 00:12:00,450 --> 00:12:05,550 other people involved in what I was doing and getting audiences 198 00:12:05,550 --> 00:12:10,110 engaged getting guests on my shot, I'd have as many as like 199 00:12:10,110 --> 00:12:14,640 maybe three guests on each of my episodes, for many, many years. 200 00:12:14,940 --> 00:12:19,080 And have done in I've done solo shows, I've done shows that had 201 00:12:19,320 --> 00:12:25,260 co hosts, I've had shows that had had regular guests on and a 202 00:12:25,260 --> 00:12:29,670 combination of that. So I've always been about, you know, 203 00:12:29,970 --> 00:12:33,840 about creating content and engaging with people, and 204 00:12:33,840 --> 00:12:37,380 podcasters are just, oftentimes, they're just amazing people. 205 00:12:37,980 --> 00:12:41,850 They, they just, they're inspiring to be around, I enjoy 206 00:12:41,850 --> 00:12:45,540 talking to them. And it's just something that's kept me 207 00:12:45,540 --> 00:12:49,650 energized over many, many years and, and working in a lot of 208 00:12:49,650 --> 00:12:53,490 different jobs and in in positions has put me in front of 209 00:12:53,490 --> 00:12:57,270 a lot of different people too. So it's, it's been a, it's been 210 00:12:57,270 --> 00:13:01,440 a really fascinating journey, the 17 years of working in the 211 00:13:01,440 --> 00:13:04,590 podcasting space, and it continues today. And I, I 212 00:13:04,590 --> 00:13:08,070 totally foresee working in this this medium for many, many years 213 00:13:08,070 --> 00:13:08,460 to come. 214 00:13:09,570 --> 00:13:12,300 Robert Plank: And that that sort of topic that we're on, it's 215 00:13:12,300 --> 00:13:16,050 been on my mind lately, as well, as far as, like, if you have the 216 00:13:16,050 --> 00:13:19,320 right people, or you get yourself around a lot of people, 217 00:13:19,440 --> 00:13:23,850 a lot of the technicalities don't matter as much. And you're 218 00:13:23,850 --> 00:13:27,540 making me think back to maybe the frustrations I've had, like 219 00:13:27,540 --> 00:13:32,580 if I think of Well, what's a bad podcast host or a bad podcast 220 00:13:32,580 --> 00:13:35,970 guest or someone that I just clash with? and usually it was, 221 00:13:36,270 --> 00:13:40,200 if the other person would not adapt to me or vice versa. Like 222 00:13:40,200 --> 00:13:42,990 if we were if we were not adaptable, dynamic, whatever you 223 00:13:42,990 --> 00:13:45,630 want to call it, like I wouldn't I would come across and I'm sure 224 00:13:45,630 --> 00:13:48,360 you come across with people where you ask one question, and 225 00:13:48,360 --> 00:13:51,870 it's like 15 minute long answer, or you ask the question. It's 226 00:13:51,870 --> 00:13:55,140 like 15 second answer. And it just drives me crazy. Either 227 00:13:55,140 --> 00:13:57,300 like, Okay, I have to keep coming up with stuff or I have 228 00:13:57,300 --> 00:14:00,390 to get a word in. And when it's like when there's better flow. 229 00:14:00,390 --> 00:14:02,910 It's when you just, it's more like a like a dance where you 230 00:14:02,910 --> 00:14:05,250 kind of feel each other out. And like you said, they're like 231 00:14:05,250 --> 00:14:10,140 sometimes you've been solo guests, like a panel or multiple 232 00:14:10,140 --> 00:14:13,050 guests. And so it seems like that's something maybe we all 233 00:14:13,050 --> 00:14:16,650 need to sit up and pay attention to and try to maybe push outside 234 00:14:16,650 --> 00:14:21,090 our comfort zone somewhat. And to be more like an adaptable 235 00:14:21,090 --> 00:14:24,030 person, especially when we're thrown into a conversation like 236 00:14:24,030 --> 00:14:26,670 this where I've got to figure out my connection on Skype or 237 00:14:26,670 --> 00:14:29,820 zoom or get my audio work and just kind of go with the flow 238 00:14:29,820 --> 00:14:30,990 and and adapt to it. 239 00:14:31,530 --> 00:14:34,380 Unknown: I think you do have to be be adaptable. And I think 240 00:14:34,380 --> 00:14:39,000 podcasting does put you in, in a, in a mental state where 241 00:14:39,930 --> 00:14:42,570 we're, you know, technology doesn't always work. And I think 242 00:14:42,600 --> 00:14:47,250 also, just, I think a lot of things that you can learn from 243 00:14:47,250 --> 00:14:50,760 podcasting are very applicable to building a stronger career 244 00:14:50,760 --> 00:14:55,170 for yourself too. You know, it's not all about just creating, you 245 00:14:55,170 --> 00:14:59,010 know, a business around podcasting. It's it's your your 246 00:14:59,010 --> 00:15:02,670 personal development. You know, I know for me, it's it's really 247 00:15:02,670 --> 00:15:06,570 been a personal development journey, you know all about 248 00:15:06,570 --> 00:15:11,280 confidence, building around knowledge, gaining knowledge 249 00:15:11,280 --> 00:15:14,910 from other people, as well as sharing knowledge with other 250 00:15:14,910 --> 00:15:18,660 people. So it's, it's this free flow of information if you think 251 00:15:18,660 --> 00:15:21,870 about the early days of the of the internet and the web. And 252 00:15:21,870 --> 00:15:25,500 that's what my early radio show that I did was about the growth 253 00:15:25,500 --> 00:15:27,240 and development of the World Wide Web and the internet and 254 00:15:27,240 --> 00:15:30,210 how that was such a collaborative environment, that, 255 00:15:30,240 --> 00:15:35,490 that that's collaboration, and that sharing was at the core of 256 00:15:35,520 --> 00:15:39,780 the development of the World Wide Web and help people share 257 00:15:39,810 --> 00:15:44,160 snippets of code and HTML code in the early days, and then help 258 00:15:44,160 --> 00:15:52,200 people shared RSS feeds and which are kind of the prevalence 259 00:15:52,200 --> 00:15:55,950 and use of RSS feeds today is kind of in a state of decline. 260 00:15:55,950 --> 00:16:00,000 But and that's not necessarily a bad thing. You know, that's kind 261 00:16:00,000 --> 00:16:02,400 of a geeky thing, right? There's a lot of, there's a lot more 262 00:16:02,400 --> 00:16:05,040 people getting involved in this medium now that are not 263 00:16:05,070 --> 00:16:08,280 technologists, right. They're there, they just want to create 264 00:16:08,280 --> 00:16:11,040 content, or they just want to talk or they just want to build 265 00:16:11,040 --> 00:16:13,500 a personal brand and a relationship with an audience. 266 00:16:13,890 --> 00:16:16,950 And technology shouldn't get in the way that technology should 267 00:16:17,010 --> 00:16:21,360 enable that. And, and I think that's what we're seeing the 268 00:16:21,390 --> 00:16:25,800 evolution happens is that technology is enabling better 269 00:16:25,800 --> 00:16:27,030 connections between people. 270 00:16:28,320 --> 00:16:30,510 Robert Plank: And when you're mentioning, the early days of 271 00:16:30,510 --> 00:16:32,940 the internet, I was just thinking the other day that it's 272 00:16:32,940 --> 00:16:36,840 easy to remember things as they were incorrectly or to remember 273 00:16:36,840 --> 00:16:41,160 things maybe more basic than they were because for some 274 00:16:41,160 --> 00:16:43,740 reason, when I think about like early internet days, I think 275 00:16:43,770 --> 00:16:48,600 static HTML pages, right, like HTML code, but way back in the 276 00:16:48,630 --> 00:16:52,290 good old days, there were still guest books, there were still 277 00:16:52,320 --> 00:16:55,020 web rings, where people would kind of forge these alliances 278 00:16:55,020 --> 00:16:57,480 and link to each other. It was it was a lot more primitive than 279 00:16:57,480 --> 00:17:00,810 but like the internet, even in the early days was still, like, 280 00:17:00,810 --> 00:17:04,380 dynamic and was still about people. And And sure, when you 281 00:17:04,440 --> 00:17:07,200 had an audio, it would take, like so much space, and it would 282 00:17:07,200 --> 00:17:09,840 take so long to put on a web page and have to fiddle with 283 00:17:09,840 --> 00:17:13,530 real player. Sure, but it was all still there. And and like, 284 00:17:13,560 --> 00:17:16,440 like you said, they're like the technology needs to be about 285 00:17:16,560 --> 00:17:21,150 enhancing and making easier, not just a another obstacle in the 286 00:17:21,150 --> 00:17:23,550 way. And so when you mentioned that it makes you wonder like, 287 00:17:23,640 --> 00:17:25,470 okay, so there's all these things that we could we could 288 00:17:25,470 --> 00:17:28,560 all be doing with podcasting, right, we could all be like 289 00:17:28,560 --> 00:17:31,830 taking out clips and putting them on social, we could all be 290 00:17:31,980 --> 00:17:35,790 sending a, you know, a plasterer email list every time it was an 291 00:17:35,790 --> 00:17:39,660 episode. So do you think there is something with podcasting, 292 00:17:39,660 --> 00:17:43,110 that is very doable, that we're all missing out on that, like 293 00:17:43,110 --> 00:17:47,700 needs to happen? Is there like an untapped thing that podcast 294 00:17:47,700 --> 00:17:48,870 hosts are missing out on? 295 00:17:50,430 --> 00:17:55,200 Unknown: Um, I think oftentimes, it's just keeping up with the 296 00:17:55,350 --> 00:17:59,340 the evolution and the technology improvements in the medium. You 297 00:17:59,340 --> 00:18:03,720 know, it's, it's hard for people to know, sometimes, especially 298 00:18:03,720 --> 00:18:07,170 when new things come out what what is worth doing and what 299 00:18:07,170 --> 00:18:12,660 isn't worth doing? And and what is, what is the priorities of 300 00:18:12,660 --> 00:18:16,800 what people should do, based on what their goals are with their 301 00:18:16,800 --> 00:18:20,430 podcasts? I mean, there, there are people out there doing 302 00:18:20,430 --> 00:18:23,220 podcasts that care more about who's listening to their 303 00:18:23,220 --> 00:18:27,930 podcast, and how many. So that changes your your focus, and 304 00:18:27,930 --> 00:18:31,380 that also changes your your strategy and how you use 305 00:18:31,380 --> 00:18:36,750 technology and how you how you deploy in it as a podcast. 306 00:18:36,750 --> 00:18:40,620 Right. And I think that, you know, that needs to be something 307 00:18:40,620 --> 00:18:47,580 that that is adjustable, and and we we need to be open to new new 308 00:18:47,580 --> 00:18:52,080 ways of thinking about podcasting in its its role. 309 00:18:52,680 --> 00:18:56,790 Yeah, I mean, I think as you look back to the past, a lot of 310 00:18:56,790 --> 00:19:00,690 the same concepts that existed in the past, still exists today. 311 00:19:00,690 --> 00:19:04,020 I mean, not that much has changed really, around 312 00:19:04,020 --> 00:19:08,190 podcasting. And in a lot of ways. You know, a lot of the 313 00:19:08,190 --> 00:19:12,090 things that I've learned, doing my radio show and doing many 314 00:19:12,180 --> 00:19:16,170 podcasts that I've done over the years, and pod faded from many 315 00:19:16,170 --> 00:19:22,050 of them as well. So is that the content is content and how you 316 00:19:22,050 --> 00:19:25,470 produce it is important, and how you connect with audiences, but 317 00:19:25,470 --> 00:19:28,650 it's all relative to what your goals are. It's all relative to 318 00:19:28,950 --> 00:19:32,340 what you're trying to do with the show and what who you are 319 00:19:32,340 --> 00:19:36,270 and how, what you bring to it from a host perspective and a 320 00:19:36,690 --> 00:19:41,760 and a value perspective to to a listener and, and that's it. 321 00:19:42,300 --> 00:19:45,870 There's no one way to do it, and there's no magic sauce to it. 322 00:19:46,290 --> 00:19:50,460 Other than I think that there is a certain and this applies to 323 00:19:50,460 --> 00:19:55,410 all content is that there is an IT factor or, or a factor that's 324 00:19:55,410 --> 00:19:58,470 understandable. It's like what makes us successful television 325 00:19:58,470 --> 00:20:02,550 show that everybody wants To watch, it's it's not something 326 00:20:02,550 --> 00:20:05,550 that you can just manufacture. It's something that happens 327 00:20:05,550 --> 00:20:11,580 based on chemistry. It happens based on, on evolution, it comes 328 00:20:11,580 --> 00:20:16,410 from being in touch with who your, your audiences. And so 329 00:20:16,410 --> 00:20:19,830 it's a combination of all those things. So it's Yeah, podcasting 330 00:20:19,830 --> 00:20:23,430 is a fascinating medium. And it's, in a lot of ways type 331 00:20:23,520 --> 00:20:26,700 getting pulled a lot into watching YouTube videos these 332 00:20:26,700 --> 00:20:30,090 days, too, because it's very similar and niche also. 333 00:20:31,230 --> 00:20:33,840 Robert Plank: And I've been doing that too, I've been, I'm 334 00:20:33,840 --> 00:20:37,980 not really much of a of a podcast subscriber, I'll like my 335 00:20:37,980 --> 00:20:40,410 own listening habits, like I'll jump in on someone's random 336 00:20:40,470 --> 00:20:43,050 episodes, I'm gonna for a while there, I was following maybe 337 00:20:43,080 --> 00:20:46,770 like four or five people. But then Lately, I've been kind of 338 00:20:46,770 --> 00:20:51,120 more of a YouTuber also, I'll go in and and I'm only interested 339 00:20:51,120 --> 00:20:53,910 in maybe like four to seven minute clips, and I'll load up 340 00:20:53,910 --> 00:20:56,490 the watch later section. And then later on when I feel like 341 00:20:56,490 --> 00:20:59,670 it all kind of play a playlist as opposed to the long form 342 00:20:59,670 --> 00:21:02,760 factor. But I also know that that won't last I know, I'll 343 00:21:02,760 --> 00:21:05,220 know that my own listening habits will change in a few 344 00:21:05,220 --> 00:21:08,250 months, kind of like you said, You've pod faded out, even like 345 00:21:08,250 --> 00:21:12,060 your own shows, and things like that. And so so yeah, it's like, 346 00:21:12,180 --> 00:21:14,880 it seems like a blending of different factors, like you 347 00:21:14,880 --> 00:21:18,780 said, like, what makes a good TV show that like if it's has good 348 00:21:18,780 --> 00:21:21,090 writing, if it has good characters, if it seems like 349 00:21:21,090 --> 00:21:24,150 they, once the actors get in it for a few episodes, they kind of 350 00:21:24,180 --> 00:21:28,500 adjust based on the actors is a kind of appeal to the masses. So 351 00:21:28,500 --> 00:21:31,710 like lots of different factors. And so that that's kind of it's 352 00:21:31,710 --> 00:21:35,430 reassuring, because it's easy to compare yourself to others, and 353 00:21:35,430 --> 00:21:38,250 to see what they're doing and kind of just copy them on like a 354 00:21:38,250 --> 00:21:41,220 superficial sense. But what you're saying is, well, they 355 00:21:41,220 --> 00:21:43,980 have a goal, and the activities they're doing are leading them 356 00:21:43,980 --> 00:21:47,100 towards that goal. So instead of copying the activities, you say, 357 00:21:47,100 --> 00:21:50,220 Well, here's my own goal. And then maybe I can pick and choose 358 00:21:50,220 --> 00:21:54,150 which activities will then leading me to my goal. And then 359 00:21:54,150 --> 00:21:57,540 you're also saying here that there's like this curiosity 360 00:21:57,540 --> 00:22:01,920 factor in play at all times. And what's what's new, and what's 361 00:22:01,920 --> 00:22:05,580 hot. And what's being revisited. I mean, when clubhouse first 362 00:22:05,580 --> 00:22:08,820 came out, I was like, oh, cool, what's this? And then I didn't 363 00:22:08,820 --> 00:22:10,890 really get it. And I joined a few chat rooms. And I was 364 00:22:10,890 --> 00:22:13,530 thinking like, isn't it isn't this technology like the same as 365 00:22:13,530 --> 00:22:16,950 always, it's walkie talkies. It's party line. It's almost 366 00:22:16,950 --> 00:22:20,640 like IRC chat. I think like IC q used to have like an audio 367 00:22:20,640 --> 00:22:23,700 feature. It just, it seems like the old things new again, but 368 00:22:23,790 --> 00:22:27,570 like trends come and go. And so if you if you had said like 369 00:22:27,570 --> 00:22:30,480 focus on just this one marketing tactic, then you wait two 370 00:22:30,480 --> 00:22:33,540 months, and then that's already sort of at a date. So I like 371 00:22:33,540 --> 00:22:39,060 that a lot that it's about the goal, and about about just being 372 00:22:39,060 --> 00:22:40,890 curious. And then there's something else you said in there 373 00:22:40,890 --> 00:22:45,360 about, like, instead of like there's thinking about how many 374 00:22:45,540 --> 00:22:49,050 or who or something along those lines. Right. And well, yeah. 375 00:22:50,040 --> 00:22:52,620 Unknown: I mean, if you're trying to create a show about a 376 00:22:52,620 --> 00:22:57,540 specific topic that is targeted towards a certain value 377 00:22:58,020 --> 00:23:01,710 relationship with a certain type of audience, then you should 378 00:23:01,710 --> 00:23:06,570 care also about who's listening. Because that means that you're, 379 00:23:06,750 --> 00:23:10,350 you're, you're able to target that content to an audience that 380 00:23:10,350 --> 00:23:15,360 you're trying to reach. So, and oftentimes, you know, the 381 00:23:15,360 --> 00:23:19,560 potential of that can be all over the map, too. And I think a 382 00:23:19,560 --> 00:23:22,200 lot of people think that when they launch a podcast on any 383 00:23:22,200 --> 00:23:25,560 topic, that it can be a show that could be as big as Joe 384 00:23:25,560 --> 00:23:30,000 Rogan. And that that's just not necessarily true. It is a 385 00:23:30,030 --> 00:23:34,470 content, a piece of content is only going to grow to the level 386 00:23:34,470 --> 00:23:39,270 that it can grow based on its appeal. Right. So it's hard to 387 00:23:39,270 --> 00:23:43,230 know, as a content creator, if I have a passion for something 388 00:23:43,230 --> 00:23:46,860 that that means that 10 million other people have that same 389 00:23:46,860 --> 00:23:53,160 exact passion, or that same approach that that attracts a 390 00:23:53,160 --> 00:23:55,500 large amount of people to I mean, each of us is an 391 00:23:55,500 --> 00:24:00,030 individual that has unique abilities and talents that may 392 00:24:00,030 --> 00:24:04,740 or may not have the ability to attract 10 million people to 393 00:24:04,770 --> 00:24:09,270 listen to my podcast, but it might attract 1000 people. And 394 00:24:09,270 --> 00:24:10,260 that may be enough. 395 00:24:11,460 --> 00:24:15,330 Robert Plank: Yeah, attracting the right people. And so, and I 396 00:24:15,330 --> 00:24:19,440 want to get in a few minutes here into the new media show and 397 00:24:19,440 --> 00:24:22,710 Lipson but as we're approaching that point, something that you 398 00:24:22,710 --> 00:24:25,920 mentioned, there has been on my mind, and I've never been really 399 00:24:25,920 --> 00:24:29,280 quite sure how to put it into words, but it drives me crazy a 400 00:24:29,280 --> 00:24:33,420 little bit when people limit themselves with the scope of the 401 00:24:33,420 --> 00:24:36,150 show, right? Like you just mentioned about how it's okay if 402 00:24:36,150 --> 00:24:39,960 you have a niche audience, but but I've come across people that 403 00:24:39,960 --> 00:24:43,410 say, My show is on this topic, and it's just about this and I 404 00:24:43,410 --> 00:24:46,110 say well, don't you know you have a friend that can talk 405 00:24:46,110 --> 00:24:48,810 about this other thing instead, like I want to have a podcast 406 00:24:48,810 --> 00:24:51,300 just about membership sites. Well, if you have a friend that 407 00:24:51,300 --> 00:24:53,880 owns a gym or you want to promote like a like a brick and 408 00:24:53,880 --> 00:24:57,480 mortar business, you can kind of make that work. So have you seen 409 00:24:57,480 --> 00:25:00,870 this or is this making any sense as far as like struggle between 410 00:25:00,870 --> 00:25:04,200 like a really boxed in podcast and like a bigger umbrella? 411 00:25:04,530 --> 00:25:09,120 Unknown: Yeah, I think it's the it's, it's definitely a 412 00:25:09,120 --> 00:25:13,230 struggle. I think that when you're new to something and you 413 00:25:13,230 --> 00:25:16,740 don't have a reputation or a community that you've built 414 00:25:17,160 --> 00:25:23,280 around you, I think starting off with a broad topic can can 415 00:25:23,280 --> 00:25:28,560 actually slow your growth down. Because what you're doing is 416 00:25:28,560 --> 00:25:33,390 you're fragmenting your your interest around an audience. I 417 00:25:33,390 --> 00:25:36,990 mean, if you have a reputation for a particular area of 418 00:25:36,990 --> 00:25:41,700 expertise, I think that you can attract people much more easily 419 00:25:41,700 --> 00:25:46,530 to your podcast, across maybe a little bit broader scope of 420 00:25:46,530 --> 00:25:51,120 topics. But the topics need to be related to each other 421 00:25:51,120 --> 00:25:55,170 somehow, so so you can keep adding value to that particular 422 00:25:55,170 --> 00:25:59,100 audience. You know, I know that the radio show that I did for 423 00:25:59,220 --> 00:26:03,780 for many years was called web talk. And that basically, was a 424 00:26:03,810 --> 00:26:09,480 topic area that that allowed me to go into any sub topic areas 425 00:26:09,480 --> 00:26:12,840 relating to the web and the internet, right? So do you think 426 00:26:12,840 --> 00:26:17,460 about the trying to come up with a theme for your show or a topic 427 00:26:17,460 --> 00:26:22,890 focus that is focused yet broad at the same time, so let's say 428 00:26:23,310 --> 00:26:28,410 you want to have a podcast about outdoor recreational vehicles or 429 00:26:28,410 --> 00:26:33,120 something like that, that is a niche, but it's also can be 430 00:26:33,120 --> 00:26:36,720 expanded, right? All of the areas that can go along with 431 00:26:36,720 --> 00:26:41,580 that. So you can keep producing content that's relevant to that 432 00:26:41,580 --> 00:26:46,110 audience, it may not be specifically about a car, but it 433 00:26:46,110 --> 00:26:51,150 could be about a service that does something in that area of 434 00:26:51,150 --> 00:26:54,060 interest, or does something with the car or it's a part for the 435 00:26:54,060 --> 00:26:57,930 car, or it's a accessory, or it's, you know, so there's, 436 00:26:57,960 --> 00:27:02,550 there's areas that have peripheral support systems that 437 00:27:02,550 --> 00:27:05,790 you can think about with any podcast topic that you come up 438 00:27:05,790 --> 00:27:09,390 with, if you can come up with a niche, but yet, it's a broad 439 00:27:09,390 --> 00:27:12,630 niche, I think that's the key to finding larger audiences. I 440 00:27:12,630 --> 00:27:16,110 mean, if you want to build a, an advertising supported show, what 441 00:27:16,110 --> 00:27:19,470 you have to build is a large community around that show. And 442 00:27:19,470 --> 00:27:23,970 large communities typically have a lot of diverse input and 443 00:27:23,970 --> 00:27:28,080 interest around a focused area. So let's say you want to create 444 00:27:28,080 --> 00:27:32,400 a show about you know, even about Jeeps, right? Or, or topic 445 00:27:32,400 --> 00:27:35,160 like that, you can create a big community around that, because 446 00:27:35,160 --> 00:27:37,830 there's a lot of people that have different ideas about how 447 00:27:37,830 --> 00:27:43,050 to create a custom Jeep or, or, you know, the new models coming 448 00:27:43,050 --> 00:27:46,800 out every year or changes that are happening in the, you know, 449 00:27:46,800 --> 00:27:50,430 in events all over the place, and you can really expand your 450 00:27:50,430 --> 00:27:53,190 your topic, and I'll always have something new to talk about. 451 00:27:54,270 --> 00:27:56,250 Robert Plank: And that's interesting to think about it in 452 00:27:56,250 --> 00:27:59,460 that way that broad, but also specific, and it seems like the 453 00:27:59,460 --> 00:28:02,850 way that you're explaining this is maybe start off, like name 454 00:28:02,850 --> 00:28:06,510 your show where it can expand. But start off specific, because 455 00:28:06,510 --> 00:28:10,350 there's probably probably, I imagine if, if someone's looking 456 00:28:10,350 --> 00:28:12,810 to start a podcast, that you might already have some ideas, 457 00:28:12,810 --> 00:28:14,790 they might already be able to hit the ground running and say, 458 00:28:14,940 --> 00:28:17,640 you know, I can already knock out these seven episodes about 459 00:28:17,640 --> 00:28:21,000 all these topics. And then as they get that audience, then if 460 00:28:21,000 --> 00:28:25,290 you have the Jeep podcast, then and you get a Jeep enthusiast, 461 00:28:25,290 --> 00:28:28,980 then there's all kinds of other kind of off the beaten path 462 00:28:28,980 --> 00:28:32,640 topics that Jeep people would would be interested in. And even 463 00:28:32,640 --> 00:28:35,040 as you explain those ideas, it's like, there's almost like 464 00:28:35,040 --> 00:28:38,670 probably categories, you could jump to as far as new content, 465 00:28:38,670 --> 00:28:43,650 like the news or something specific or activities, like so 466 00:28:43,650 --> 00:28:47,190 it's I like that idea, a lot of start specific and then make a 467 00:28:47,190 --> 00:28:50,370 broad later, almost as you as you kind of slow down on 468 00:28:50,370 --> 00:28:53,130 content, right, as you personally have less and less 469 00:28:53,130 --> 00:28:55,950 content to put out there. If you're getting repetitive, then 470 00:28:55,950 --> 00:28:59,130 expand it to new subtopics makes a lot of sense, 471 00:28:59,370 --> 00:29:02,760 Unknown: right? I mean, because if you if you have an area that 472 00:29:02,760 --> 00:29:06,270 you're focused on that is too narrow, that that there isn't a 473 00:29:06,270 --> 00:29:09,810 community around somehow that already exists out there or 474 00:29:10,260 --> 00:29:14,220 could be created. I think a lot of the pot feeding happens from 475 00:29:14,220 --> 00:29:18,780 being too focused on a on a small niche that doesn't have a 476 00:29:18,810 --> 00:29:22,950 broad appeal. And and you basically run out of things to 477 00:29:22,950 --> 00:29:26,130 talk about, I mean, I've been podcasting about podcasting for 478 00:29:26,130 --> 00:29:30,270 17 years, and I don't seem to ever run out of things to talk 479 00:29:30,270 --> 00:29:30,600 about 480 00:29:31,680 --> 00:29:34,530 Robert Plank: it because you maintain their curiosity and you 481 00:29:34,770 --> 00:29:38,010 stay flexible, adaptable, like we've been talking about if 482 00:29:38,070 --> 00:29:39,900 you're part of what's not serving you is running out of 483 00:29:39,900 --> 00:29:44,640 content and adapt to that as well. No, no, it's so so great. 484 00:29:44,640 --> 00:29:48,150 I mean, there's so much for us to chew on think about and and 485 00:29:48,150 --> 00:29:50,790 also as far as your journey, like you said that you've had 486 00:29:50,790 --> 00:29:53,520 all these different companies you've been involved with and 487 00:29:53,520 --> 00:29:57,120 you can probably go to like any any podcasting business that you 488 00:29:57,120 --> 00:30:00,840 want and jump in and do your thing. So why lives St. Why did 489 00:30:00,870 --> 00:30:04,020 why is your path led you to Lipson and why is Lipson so 490 00:30:04,020 --> 00:30:06,690 freakin great as a platform and a tool in an app? 491 00:30:08,040 --> 00:30:12,690 Unknown: Well, I think for me why Lipson is Lipson was the 492 00:30:12,690 --> 00:30:15,960 very first podcast hosting platform to ever exist. They 493 00:30:15,990 --> 00:30:19,080 they came into existence the same time I started podcasting. 494 00:30:19,980 --> 00:30:23,580 So that's how far the company goes back. I mean, podcasting 495 00:30:23,580 --> 00:30:27,210 probably wouldn't exist today, in the form that it does if 496 00:30:27,210 --> 00:30:30,390 Lipson hadn't started because they were the first platform. I 497 00:30:30,390 --> 00:30:34,560 mean, prior to Lipson, and this was when I started podcasting, I 498 00:30:34,560 --> 00:30:39,060 was hand coding RSS feeds. In making a lot of mistakes about 499 00:30:39,150 --> 00:30:43,170 every other episode, my my RSS feed would break because I'd use 500 00:30:43,170 --> 00:30:46,590 the wrong comma or something like that in my off my keyboard. 501 00:30:47,850 --> 00:30:52,620 So So podcast hosting platforms like Lipson have basically 502 00:30:52,620 --> 00:30:58,050 automated the the ability to publish and working at a company 503 00:30:58,050 --> 00:31:00,990 like Lipson has put me kind of at the center of the industry to 504 00:31:00,990 --> 00:31:06,720 some degree of, of being between distribution and, and the 505 00:31:06,720 --> 00:31:11,310 content creator side, which is, that's my roots. I mean, I was a 506 00:31:11,310 --> 00:31:15,180 content creator to begin with, I was part of the in the very 507 00:31:15,180 --> 00:31:20,730 early group of shows that enter the podcasting medium, and had a 508 00:31:20,730 --> 00:31:24,540 lot of experience taking shows out to streaming and getting it 509 00:31:24,540 --> 00:31:27,630 out into us, you know, syndicated radio on the XM 510 00:31:27,630 --> 00:31:31,470 Satellite Radio Network site, I have a lot of experience across 511 00:31:31,470 --> 00:31:35,220 the board in this medium. And so sitting where I'm sitting is 512 00:31:35,220 --> 00:31:40,230 really, really the best place to be because I can, I can get on 513 00:31:40,230 --> 00:31:44,340 podcasts like yours, and I can create my own show and I can be 514 00:31:44,340 --> 00:31:48,300 on other people's shows. And I can contribute to this community 515 00:31:48,300 --> 00:31:53,850 from a basis of experience. And personal insight from all the 516 00:31:53,970 --> 00:31:57,810 relationships that I've had with the distribution companies, the 517 00:31:57,810 --> 00:32:04,860 monetization entities, advertisers, ad buyers, to the 518 00:32:04,890 --> 00:32:09,870 the hosting and listening sides. So I've I've worked for a large 519 00:32:09,870 --> 00:32:13,560 Podcast Network. I used to be the CTO for podcast one down in 520 00:32:13,560 --> 00:32:18,030 Los Angeles, which hosted the Adam Carolla podcast and the 521 00:32:18,030 --> 00:32:20,550 Shaq podcast. And some of those ones, I've been on the celebrity 522 00:32:20,550 --> 00:32:25,080 side too. But I've also worked for Microsoft, and ran the Zune 523 00:32:25,080 --> 00:32:29,130 podcasting platform for six years at Microsoft and used to 524 00:32:29,130 --> 00:32:34,110 work for Xbox as well. So I've got just kind of a huge base of 525 00:32:34,140 --> 00:32:40,020 background and exposure to all levels of content creators. And 526 00:32:40,050 --> 00:32:43,830 that just has put me in a great, great position. As far as Lipson 527 00:32:43,830 --> 00:32:48,210 goes, I mean, it's, it's a, it's a platform that was really built 528 00:32:48,210 --> 00:32:53,160 to support serious podcasters. And that's, that's why I got 529 00:32:53,160 --> 00:32:56,670 involved with them. I mean, I used to work for spreaker. And 530 00:32:56,700 --> 00:33:00,390 spreaker, was doing a lot of a lot of great stuff, too. I love 531 00:33:00,390 --> 00:33:04,770 the combination of live streaming, that they have live 532 00:33:04,770 --> 00:33:08,700 audio streaming with podcasting, that was really a cool thing for 533 00:33:08,700 --> 00:33:11,490 me, because I've always been kind of a live radio guy. So 534 00:33:12,180 --> 00:33:15,930 that was, that was great. And I still do a lot of live stuff. I 535 00:33:15,930 --> 00:33:19,080 mean, my my new media show, which we're going to talk about 536 00:33:19,380 --> 00:33:23,550 is a is a live online show as well. So it's live on on the 537 00:33:23,550 --> 00:33:27,660 video side, which is something I didn't do in the past, because 538 00:33:27,690 --> 00:33:30,660 in the early days of the internet, you really didn't do 539 00:33:30,660 --> 00:33:35,490 video online, just because nobody could get it. So but 540 00:33:35,520 --> 00:33:38,970 things have changed on that front now. So that's my story, 541 00:33:38,970 --> 00:33:39,630 I'm sticking to it. 542 00:33:40,620 --> 00:33:42,630 Robert Plank: And what's cool, what's cool about your story is 543 00:33:42,660 --> 00:33:45,870 you're sticking to this, this idea of blending the old and the 544 00:33:45,870 --> 00:33:49,560 new, because it's really easy to have all this experience and 545 00:33:49,560 --> 00:33:52,260 say, you know, I don't have any room in my brain to learn any 546 00:33:52,260 --> 00:33:55,140 any new tricks, and I'm just gonna stick with me being a 547 00:33:55,140 --> 00:33:58,230 dinosaur enemy. I've been at this for 20 years too. And it's 548 00:33:58,230 --> 00:34:01,410 really tempting to just get settled in. And the good old 549 00:34:01,410 --> 00:34:03,390 days, like we were just talking about, like, oh, remember the 550 00:34:03,390 --> 00:34:07,470 good old days of geo cities and coding your RSS feed by hand and 551 00:34:07,590 --> 00:34:10,020 but like no one cares about that, right? And we've been 552 00:34:10,020 --> 00:34:12,930 talking a lot about, like tapping into your audience and 553 00:34:12,930 --> 00:34:15,120 playing to what your audience wants and kind of growing with 554 00:34:15,120 --> 00:34:19,170 them. And if you're just seeing as you've always been, then what 555 00:34:19,170 --> 00:34:21,420 the heck is the point of that? So it's good that you're kind of 556 00:34:21,450 --> 00:34:24,870 using that as an advantage. And I mean, a lot of people use that 557 00:34:24,870 --> 00:34:27,960 in like later age too. Right? You have some 70 year old 80 558 00:34:27,960 --> 00:34:31,050 year old Oh, I don't need to learn anything new. You still do 559 00:34:31,050 --> 00:34:33,330 and what's the what's cool about seeing what you've done is 560 00:34:33,420 --> 00:34:37,470 you've seen all these things and you use it to enhance your just 561 00:34:37,470 --> 00:34:40,200 your your your new your new knowledge that you're you're 562 00:34:40,200 --> 00:34:44,370 figuring out and so so yeah, libsyn is for serious podcasters 563 00:34:44,430 --> 00:34:47,070 if you want to be a not so serious podcaster use one of 564 00:34:47,070 --> 00:34:50,370 those other terrible platforms but but libsyn is what you have 565 00:34:50,370 --> 00:34:53,220 to use if you're serious if you really want your podcast to 566 00:34:53,220 --> 00:34:57,360 succeed. And I imagined that the is a new media show hosted on 567 00:34:57,360 --> 00:35:00,330 libsyn It better be no it's actually not. It's actually 568 00:35:00,540 --> 00:35:04,650 posted on blueberry. Oh, shoo competition. Why? 569 00:35:05,220 --> 00:35:08,970 Unknown: Because my co host is actually the CEO of blueberry. 570 00:35:09,690 --> 00:35:10,140 So 571 00:35:10,170 --> 00:35:11,790 Robert Plank: you're connected all kinds of ways. 572 00:35:11,850 --> 00:35:16,320 Unknown: Yeah. So this is an unusual show because it's it's 573 00:35:16,320 --> 00:35:21,780 co hosted by two competitors. So I work for Lipson and Todd works 574 00:35:21,780 --> 00:35:25,620 for blueberry. And the reason this show even exists is the 575 00:35:25,620 --> 00:35:29,520 fact that we started this show before we were competitors. So 576 00:35:29,880 --> 00:35:34,320 we just have kept it going. So you know, I was working for 577 00:35:34,320 --> 00:35:38,610 Microsoft, when I started doing new media show with Todd every 578 00:35:38,610 --> 00:35:43,200 week. And they've been doing it for over 10 years. So it's a 579 00:35:43,200 --> 00:35:47,880 show about the really about the growth and development and the 580 00:35:47,910 --> 00:35:52,380 the industry of podcasting. But it's also covered a lot of other 581 00:35:52,380 --> 00:35:57,540 topics around online video. And so I mean, it's, it's truly a 582 00:35:57,540 --> 00:36:00,750 new media show. And I guess the question I keep asking, Todd is, 583 00:36:00,750 --> 00:36:05,400 is, when do we need to change the name of it? Because is this 584 00:36:05,430 --> 00:36:09,150 medium that we're doing online now still considered new? Or At 585 00:36:09,150 --> 00:36:14,640 what point? Is it considered old medium? Right? I don't know. I 586 00:36:14,640 --> 00:36:15,570 don't know when that is, 587 00:36:15,930 --> 00:36:17,610 Robert Plank: or in the middle, right? If there's like the 588 00:36:17,610 --> 00:36:20,730 traditional I'm in a podcast was new, but now it's in the middle. 589 00:36:20,730 --> 00:36:23,160 And there's something even better, but the way things are, 590 00:36:23,160 --> 00:36:26,010 it might just circle back around and be the same repeat of the 591 00:36:26,010 --> 00:36:27,390 old but the new anyways. 592 00:36:27,450 --> 00:36:31,770 Unknown: Right? Right. In the name of it doesn't say New Media 593 00:36:31,770 --> 00:36:35,430 show. I mean, it doesn't say New Media podcast, it says new media 594 00:36:35,430 --> 00:36:39,030 shows. So just the just the premise of it was more about it 595 00:36:39,030 --> 00:36:44,040 being a show, regardless of what the distribution was. So and 596 00:36:44,040 --> 00:36:45,120 that's kind of what we've done. 597 00:36:45,689 --> 00:36:47,939 Robert Plank: Like we've been saying, it can be on on YouTube, 598 00:36:47,939 --> 00:36:51,149 it can be live streamed, it can be on on podcast, and you're 599 00:36:51,149 --> 00:36:55,289 right there on brand by starting off specific, but new media show 600 00:36:55,289 --> 00:36:59,369 is in a way vague enough where it can expand to whatever the 601 00:36:59,369 --> 00:37:02,699 internet becomes. And so with all these episodes of The New 602 00:37:02,699 --> 00:37:04,949 Media show, and all these things that you've covered, like you 603 00:37:04,949 --> 00:37:08,609 said, you covered like online video, Is there like a was there 604 00:37:08,609 --> 00:37:12,659 a really weird, unique standout episode in the mix? There's 605 00:37:12,659 --> 00:37:15,629 anything come to mind? Yeah, I've, 606 00:37:16,410 --> 00:37:21,540 Unknown: we did about six months ago, we did an episode with Mr. 607 00:37:21,540 --> 00:37:25,650 Adam curry, who's the father of podcasting, he was a guest on 608 00:37:25,650 --> 00:37:29,430 the show. And there's been episodes in the past that we've 609 00:37:29,430 --> 00:37:33,600 done live on stage to in the past, past past few years. And 610 00:37:33,600 --> 00:37:35,850 that's going to be happening again, at podcast movement, 611 00:37:36,240 --> 00:37:40,710 where we're gonna do a live on stage episode of the, of the 612 00:37:40,710 --> 00:37:43,290 show. And it's usually done as almost like a panel session up 613 00:37:43,290 --> 00:37:47,010 on stage in front of a live audience. So that's the other 614 00:37:47,010 --> 00:37:50,700 aspect that we've moved into to hear air over the last couple 615 00:37:50,700 --> 00:37:53,850 years is trying to do it more in the real world. And 616 00:37:53,910 --> 00:37:56,460 unfortunately, the pandemic kind of undermine a little bit of 617 00:37:56,460 --> 00:38:01,290 that for a while. But trying to get in front of people in the 618 00:38:01,290 --> 00:38:05,310 real world is is another aspect of podcasting that is going to 619 00:38:05,310 --> 00:38:11,160 come back here. As we come out of this, this pandemic lockdown 620 00:38:11,190 --> 00:38:15,300 stuff that we've been through over the last year. And it'll be 621 00:38:15,300 --> 00:38:18,060 exciting to see and a lot of podcasters make money from 622 00:38:18,060 --> 00:38:22,440 selling tickets to get into their podcasts, in a theater or 623 00:38:22,470 --> 00:38:27,900 in venues or at conferences, or those kind of things around the 624 00:38:28,380 --> 00:38:32,070 country. So it's, it's an interesting, you know, time that 625 00:38:32,070 --> 00:38:35,910 we're coming into right now. And I'm, I'm trying to adapt to how 626 00:38:35,910 --> 00:38:39,990 things may be different. You know, I think a lot of the the 627 00:38:39,990 --> 00:38:43,860 events that we've attended, at least the podcasting conferences 628 00:38:43,860 --> 00:38:48,150 are going to be hybrid events going forward, which means prior 629 00:38:48,150 --> 00:38:52,200 to COVID, they didn't really have an online virtual component 630 00:38:52,200 --> 00:38:55,050 to their in person events. But now they're going to have 631 00:38:55,290 --> 00:38:59,760 simultaneously going on at the same time, a virtual event with 632 00:38:59,760 --> 00:39:02,910 the in person event. And I'm not exactly sure how that's going to 633 00:39:04,110 --> 00:39:07,830 how that's going to work and how that's going to play out in 634 00:39:07,830 --> 00:39:11,340 people's experiences and how these events can grow from that 635 00:39:11,340 --> 00:39:14,340 because it certainly turns them into a global impact event. I 636 00:39:14,340 --> 00:39:16,740 know for many years, I was encouraging these in person 637 00:39:16,740 --> 00:39:20,940 events to do some more live stages and to do more on online 638 00:39:20,940 --> 00:39:24,360 on a virtual event basis. And they were most of them were 639 00:39:24,360 --> 00:39:27,180 pretty resistant to doing that because they thought it would 640 00:39:27,180 --> 00:39:31,080 discourage people from coming to the event. And now because of 641 00:39:31,080 --> 00:39:34,470 the pandemic, we're seeing more of these events, just say Well, 642 00:39:34,500 --> 00:39:36,750 I've got this expertise because that's what I had to do over the 643 00:39:36,750 --> 00:39:40,200 last year I might as well just add it to the in person event 644 00:39:40,200 --> 00:39:43,620 and see if I can grow the overall attendance of the 645 00:39:43,620 --> 00:39:44,220 conference. 646 00:39:45,240 --> 00:39:47,520 Robert Plank: And yeah, now it seems like there's no choice or 647 00:39:47,520 --> 00:39:52,440 now it's it's almost expected and it seems like once once 648 00:39:52,470 --> 00:39:55,590 smartphones and like Wi Fi and things like that became more and 649 00:39:55,590 --> 00:39:58,650 more widespread. It was like it was kind of creeping up on 650 00:39:58,680 --> 00:40:01,080 people running events and then I remember seeing that all over 651 00:40:01,080 --> 00:40:04,290 the place of being like resisting that change because it 652 00:40:04,290 --> 00:40:07,530 would take away from the event. But now it's like, if there's a 653 00:40:07,530 --> 00:40:10,680 way to somehow add it to that event, or if people are just 654 00:40:10,710 --> 00:40:15,480 kind of it's normalize that, why not embrace it? And why not just 655 00:40:15,480 --> 00:40:18,510 jump on the train of, of whatever new innovations are are 656 00:40:18,510 --> 00:40:22,380 in in podcasting and live events and connected with other people, 657 00:40:22,380 --> 00:40:27,240 whatever the the new innovation is. And so where can we sign up 658 00:40:27,240 --> 00:40:30,030 for Lipson and where can we check out the new media show? 659 00:40:30,780 --> 00:40:34,620 Unknown: Well, if you wanted to go to lipson.com, and that's Li 660 00:40:34,620 --> 00:40:37,770 b s, y n, you can certainly sign up if you want to start hosting 661 00:40:37,770 --> 00:40:41,910 a podcast or create a podcast for your organization or 662 00:40:41,940 --> 00:40:45,810 yourself. You can certainly do that it's it's it's as low as 663 00:40:45,900 --> 00:40:48,390 five bucks a month to get started. So it's it's not 664 00:40:48,390 --> 00:40:53,730 expensive to get going. And, and how you can get a hold of me. I 665 00:40:53,730 --> 00:40:55,800 can certainly be reached by email, if you want to send me an 666 00:40:55,800 --> 00:41:01,200 email. Rob g at Lipson Comm. Would be great to hear from you. 667 00:41:01,230 --> 00:41:05,490 And I've got I've got a presence in all the social media 668 00:41:05,490 --> 00:41:08,970 platforms too. I'm on Twitter at Rob Greenlee. And I do have a 669 00:41:08,970 --> 00:41:13,530 website at Rob Greenlee. Calm so there's lots of ways I'm totally 670 00:41:13,530 --> 00:41:14,130 accessible. 671 00:41:15,330 --> 00:41:17,880 Robert Plank: Nice in every possible medium there is because 672 00:41:17,880 --> 00:41:21,570 right why limit yourself if it's there, create an account have a 673 00:41:21,600 --> 00:41:25,710 have a path for approval to find you. That is Rob g@libsyn.com. 674 00:41:25,800 --> 00:41:30,480 That is not at Rob Greenlee and all these platforms. Li b s y en 675 00:41:30,510 --> 00:41:34,020 comm it's only five bucks a month, don't wait, get your 676 00:41:34,020 --> 00:41:37,260 podcasts online, make those few clicks, record that first 677 00:41:37,260 --> 00:41:39,840 episode, that way you have something that can grow with 678 00:41:39,840 --> 00:41:42,390 you. And that way you have the ball rolling, and you'll be so 679 00:41:42,390 --> 00:41:45,570 glad that you created a podcast that will live on now and 680 00:41:45,570 --> 00:41:49,680 forever. And as we wrap up wind Ryan down here, Rob, is there 681 00:41:49,680 --> 00:41:52,530 anything that comes to mind as far as like anything we like 682 00:41:52,530 --> 00:41:55,350 left out or like any like Final parting words for us? 683 00:41:56,610 --> 00:41:59,910 Unknown: I just think if you're gonna be a content creator 684 00:41:59,910 --> 00:42:04,770 online, and this goes beyond just podcasting is just, you 685 00:42:04,770 --> 00:42:07,950 know, think about what your goals are, think about what your 686 00:42:08,100 --> 00:42:15,210 you might want to accomplish by by doing that in what aspect of 687 00:42:15,210 --> 00:42:18,090 your life can it add to, you know, it could be creating, 688 00:42:18,120 --> 00:42:20,850 creating a show on LinkedIn, or it could be creating a show on 689 00:42:21,570 --> 00:42:25,170 on Facebook or something, you know, creating content online 690 00:42:25,170 --> 00:42:30,120 can can transform your life, it can transform your career. 691 00:42:30,870 --> 00:42:33,750 There's just a lot of lot of opportunity there. And 692 00:42:33,810 --> 00:42:38,730 podcasting is is just one one option. But you can also think 693 00:42:38,730 --> 00:42:41,940 about it as a synergistic approach to the podcast for many 694 00:42:41,940 --> 00:42:46,050 is the is the core. And then all these other things that you do 695 00:42:46,050 --> 00:42:50,190 with video are all this kind of extra that you do at for 696 00:42:50,190 --> 00:42:53,490 marketing purposes to drive it, drive some attention to your 697 00:42:53,490 --> 00:42:56,400 podcast. So it just depends on how you want to approach it. But 698 00:42:56,430 --> 00:42:59,610 yeah, it's more about just getting focused on what your 699 00:42:59,610 --> 00:43:02,490 goals are and in what you're trying to accomplish. I think 700 00:43:02,490 --> 00:43:03,960 it's the big, big takeaway.