1 00:00:02,310 --> 00:00:04,950 Robert Plank: Hey, welcome back to the podcast. We're here with 2 00:00:05,010 --> 00:00:08,580 returning guest, John Meese, who is the author of the excellent 3 00:00:08,580 --> 00:00:12,330 book survive and thrive, how to build a profitable business in 4 00:00:12,330 --> 00:00:15,270 any economy. I think we see like five copies of the book on 5 00:00:15,270 --> 00:00:17,850 screen, there's there's one for holding, there was like three 6 00:00:17,850 --> 00:00:21,180 behind you. And the thing they need know about John is he is 7 00:00:21,180 --> 00:00:26,430 the CEO of CO work in case the co founder of notable he is the 8 00:00:26,430 --> 00:00:30,060 dean of Platform University from Michael Hyatt. And he wrote this 9 00:00:30,060 --> 00:00:33,630 book where what you need to know, to survive in any economy, 10 00:00:33,630 --> 00:00:37,410 including the COVID, economy, the posts, COVID, economy, the 11 00:00:37,410 --> 00:00:40,800 post lambda economy, wherever you find yourself in. And so 12 00:00:40,800 --> 00:00:43,020 we're going to be talking about this book. So John, glad to have 13 00:00:43,020 --> 00:00:43,590 you back. 14 00:00:44,010 --> 00:00:45,540 Unknown: Thank you so much, Robert, I appreciate you having 15 00:00:45,540 --> 00:00:49,200 me. And, you know, it's fun to come back, honestly. And I will 16 00:00:49,200 --> 00:00:51,390 say one thing has changed since I was back, actually. So you 17 00:00:51,390 --> 00:00:54,540 mentioned the Drina Platform University. That's not true 18 00:00:54,540 --> 00:00:56,820 anymore, because we actually sold plot from university. And 19 00:00:56,820 --> 00:00:59,730 so that was like my last act behind the scenes of Dean. And 20 00:00:59,730 --> 00:01:02,640 so this book is part of that the next arrow thing, so I still 21 00:01:02,640 --> 00:01:06,720 actually go back to plot from university as a guest. Teacher 22 00:01:06,720 --> 00:01:11,130 from time to time, like I did just last week. But that's, 23 00:01:11,160 --> 00:01:13,380 that's how we first connected. So we are now 24 00:01:14,430 --> 00:01:16,710 Robert Plank: off to bigger and better things. And, and that's 25 00:01:16,710 --> 00:01:20,400 something that that I tried to kind of tap into about, like 26 00:01:20,400 --> 00:01:23,490 people like you who are, I don't know, if I calling it like a 27 00:01:23,490 --> 00:01:27,150 business guy is the right term, but they're the people that they 28 00:01:27,150 --> 00:01:30,630 seem to always be, you know, building something up or selling 29 00:01:30,630 --> 00:01:34,590 a business or like acquiring a business. And that it's really, 30 00:01:34,590 --> 00:01:38,040 it's inspiring, because there's, there's kind of that tendency to 31 00:01:38,160 --> 00:01:42,360 sink in, and should be like a contractor or be like a person 32 00:01:42,360 --> 00:01:44,730 with the skill who happens to be running a business. And you 33 00:01:44,730 --> 00:01:47,280 always hear about, like, the place where you should be is 34 00:01:47,280 --> 00:01:49,830 instead be someone who runs a business, who then hires the 35 00:01:49,830 --> 00:01:53,640 people that like, you know, have the skills, and it's kind of, 36 00:01:53,820 --> 00:01:57,300 it's kind of a hard thing to to tap into. And to always be kind 37 00:01:57,300 --> 00:02:00,750 of on the move on. So congratulations on your, your 38 00:02:00,750 --> 00:02:04,050 advancement in the in the business world and pulling this 39 00:02:04,050 --> 00:02:06,510 thing off. But sometimes coming back as a, I don't know if it's 40 00:02:06,510 --> 00:02:10,080 like a professor emeritus or something along those lines. But 41 00:02:10,110 --> 00:02:13,950 congratulations with that. And so where we last left off, was I 42 00:02:13,950 --> 00:02:16,920 think we were a few months into COVID. And you opened up a co 43 00:02:16,920 --> 00:02:20,130 working facility at the what you could say is the worst possible 44 00:02:20,130 --> 00:02:23,430 time and you think you're over 58 days, and you had to shut 45 00:02:23,430 --> 00:02:27,060 down. So to catch us up what the heck happened there? Well, 46 00:02:27,210 --> 00:02:30,930 Unknown: I mean, all that happened. And then COVID-19 was 47 00:02:30,930 --> 00:02:32,910 eradicated and the world opened up and everything was back to 48 00:02:32,910 --> 00:02:37,830 normal. Jake Asik Kidding, kidding, kidding. All kidding 49 00:02:37,830 --> 00:02:41,910 aside. So yeah, so we were closed for a total of 48 days in 50 00:02:41,910 --> 00:02:44,550 the co working space. And but I'm still in it right now. We're 51 00:02:44,550 --> 00:02:48,300 talking, you know, a year and a half later, and I'm still in the 52 00:02:48,300 --> 00:02:51,390 co working space and still up and running, and doing much 53 00:02:51,390 --> 00:02:54,450 better than before. But I you know, but I spent some of that 54 00:02:54,450 --> 00:03:00,150 time where I really, you know, dug in to recognize that. First 55 00:03:00,150 --> 00:03:02,250 of all, there was a real and there is a real health crisis 56 00:03:02,250 --> 00:03:05,700 going on all over the world with COVID-19. And that's something 57 00:03:05,700 --> 00:03:08,700 that I can both recognize and recognize that I don't have any 58 00:03:08,700 --> 00:03:13,470 skill set that really is useful in that arena. I also recognize 59 00:03:13,470 --> 00:03:15,180 that there's this economic crisis going on all over the 60 00:03:15,180 --> 00:03:18,450 world where people's livelihoods are being changed, where their 61 00:03:18,450 --> 00:03:21,510 job is changing, or their business is changing, or their 62 00:03:21,510 --> 00:03:26,190 world was changing. And they need some sorts of security and 63 00:03:26,190 --> 00:03:30,450 semblance of sanity. And so I took that on as my job 64 00:03:30,510 --> 00:03:36,270 essentially last year. And so I started by locking myself in a 65 00:03:36,270 --> 00:03:40,110 room and writing the first draft of my book as a way to just kind 66 00:03:40,110 --> 00:03:41,940 of document the things I had learned about building 67 00:03:41,940 --> 00:03:43,800 businesses because at this point, I built three businesses 68 00:03:43,800 --> 00:03:47,220 from scratch, and bootstrapping those and like, what worked, 69 00:03:47,220 --> 00:03:49,110 what didn't work and all that kind of stuff. That's where I 70 00:03:49,110 --> 00:03:51,390 started. But then I finished that I thought, You know what, 71 00:03:51,420 --> 00:03:53,220 this is going to be a playbook that's really going to help 72 00:03:53,220 --> 00:03:55,260 people all over the world that needs to be stronger than just 73 00:03:55,260 --> 00:03:59,010 my story. And so that's when I started my podcast where I went 74 00:03:59,010 --> 00:04:02,190 in a in a month period of time, I recorded 30 interviews with 75 00:04:02,190 --> 00:04:04,140 different business mentors about what they were doing in their 76 00:04:04,140 --> 00:04:07,920 current business, what what they learned from their history of 77 00:04:07,920 --> 00:04:11,580 building businesses. So people like Michael Hyatt Ray Edwards, 78 00:04:11,580 --> 00:04:15,030 Philip Stutz, Mike McCalla wits Rabbi Daniel Lapin many other 79 00:04:15,030 --> 00:04:19,530 incredible entrepreneurs. And I took those interviews and I 80 00:04:19,530 --> 00:04:21,510 transcribed them and I just took out the best parts that and 81 00:04:21,510 --> 00:04:24,750 distill that down. And then I combined that with my books and 82 00:04:24,750 --> 00:04:26,760 I read the rough draft but I combined their stories in my 83 00:04:26,760 --> 00:04:29,640 book and realized there was a pattern that showed up over and 84 00:04:29,640 --> 00:04:32,520 over again, no matter what industry you were in. And so the 85 00:04:32,520 --> 00:04:35,490 book is really about the pattern of like, forget my story. Forget 86 00:04:35,490 --> 00:04:38,430 Michael Hyatt story Robert Lapin story this is your story of how 87 00:04:38,430 --> 00:04:40,800 you build a thriving business and that's what the book is 88 00:04:40,800 --> 00:04:41,220 based on. 89 00:04:42,120 --> 00:04:44,490 Robert Plank: And I feel like I read through the book today and 90 00:04:44,490 --> 00:04:48,450 it's a pretty quick read and I feel like the so that makes 91 00:04:48,450 --> 00:04:50,880 sense now because like it sometimes jumps into like Mike 92 00:04:50,880 --> 00:04:54,000 McCalla wits little chunk or like Michael Hyatt kind of chunk 93 00:04:54,210 --> 00:04:56,370 and there's there's lots of little lessons like something 94 00:04:56,370 --> 00:04:59,970 that sticks with me is the like Michael Hyatt had this habit of 95 00:05:00,000 --> 00:05:03,150 Thinking 16 weeks ahead and saying like, well, like, what's 96 00:05:03,150 --> 00:05:05,070 all what are all the expenditures we're going to 97 00:05:05,070 --> 00:05:07,320 have? And what things are we expecting, and there was like a 98 00:05:07,320 --> 00:05:10,680 thing about with the goal setting, there's like the MTO. 99 00:05:10,680 --> 00:05:13,890 Like, well, instead of just setting a goal, set your minimum 100 00:05:13,890 --> 00:05:18,330 goal, like just to get by your target goal, and then your, like 101 00:05:18,330 --> 00:05:22,410 your stretch goal, or what, yeah, your outrageous goal. But 102 00:05:22,680 --> 00:05:28,680 I feel like it was like, the last third or so is, is kind of 103 00:05:28,680 --> 00:05:32,640 like, like that, like that part, like the being prepared for the 104 00:05:32,640 --> 00:05:35,730 future and being organized and having a helpful business. But 105 00:05:35,730 --> 00:05:38,940 then I feel like maybe the first or like maybe like the middle 106 00:05:38,940 --> 00:05:41,670 third or so like that. I think the big idea, at least from what 107 00:05:41,670 --> 00:05:45,660 I got to this was this, this idea of like, you're not just 108 00:05:45,660 --> 00:05:48,540 selling a product you're selling like this whole, this whole 109 00:05:48,540 --> 00:05:51,960 universe and like your product, it can be like a part of it. But 110 00:05:51,960 --> 00:05:54,090 you might have like eight or so products that are like fit 111 00:05:54,090 --> 00:05:57,090 together. And you kept kind of going back to this idea of like 112 00:05:57,210 --> 00:06:00,540 the woman's department store, like you're not you're selling a 113 00:06:00,540 --> 00:06:03,090 dress, or you're not just selling shoes, like that can be 114 00:06:03,090 --> 00:06:05,940 the thing that gets people in there. But it's like this whole 115 00:06:06,030 --> 00:06:09,510 kind of package. And ideally, there should be a package that 116 00:06:09,690 --> 00:06:12,780 kind of gets people where they need to go. And the products are 117 00:06:12,780 --> 00:06:15,630 just the pieces that get them there. And so kind of like I 118 00:06:15,630 --> 00:06:19,710 guess the lesson I got from all that was that it's okay to 119 00:06:19,830 --> 00:06:22,860 pivot. And it's okay to maybe throw out parts of your 120 00:06:22,860 --> 00:06:26,820 business. But like, don't be married to just like one concept 121 00:06:26,820 --> 00:06:30,210 or one product and be more more focused on like, what's the 122 00:06:30,360 --> 00:06:32,940 where are you going to get people and then that makes it 123 00:06:32,940 --> 00:06:36,150 less painful to kind of change up your business and let it 124 00:06:36,150 --> 00:06:38,610 evolve and adapt over time. Because you're still just 125 00:06:38,610 --> 00:06:41,220 getting those people to where they need to go, whether it's 126 00:06:41,220 --> 00:06:44,880 like the nice outfit for work or to get their, you know, their 127 00:06:44,910 --> 00:06:48,000 online platform or things like that. Yeah, 128 00:06:48,030 --> 00:06:49,860 Unknown: well, first of all, that's a great distillation of 129 00:06:49,890 --> 00:06:51,960 some of the key concepts from the book. And so I'm glad that 130 00:06:51,960 --> 00:06:54,480 those stuck, and I'm glad you enjoyed the book. And then I 131 00:06:54,480 --> 00:06:57,150 would say Yeah, so the way that books are organized, that it's 132 00:06:57,150 --> 00:06:59,460 actually the first part of it is marketing. And then the middle 133 00:06:59,460 --> 00:07:02,400 third is sales. And the third, third is finance. Because the 134 00:07:02,400 --> 00:07:05,070 reality is, I actually had all the finance stuff first because 135 00:07:05,070 --> 00:07:07,230 a lot of entrepreneurs don't manage their financials, well in 136 00:07:07,230 --> 00:07:10,680 terms of like cashflow management, or, you know, Profit 137 00:07:10,680 --> 00:07:13,020 First or anything like that. I had at the beginning when I 138 00:07:13,020 --> 00:07:15,570 first wrote the book, but I realized it doesn't really 139 00:07:15,570 --> 00:07:17,130 matter how well you manage your money if there's nothing to 140 00:07:17,130 --> 00:07:20,550 manage. And so instead, I moved that stuff, all the organization 141 00:07:20,550 --> 00:07:23,250 stuff to the back and focus then on like, let's focus on 142 00:07:23,250 --> 00:07:26,130 marketing and sales and growing your business. So you have money 143 00:07:26,160 --> 00:07:30,000 to worry about. But then yeah, you're exactly right. Everything 144 00:07:30,000 --> 00:07:32,490 I come back to in business in this book, and elsewhere, I 145 00:07:32,490 --> 00:07:35,490 teach comes back to this idea that business is built on 146 00:07:35,490 --> 00:07:38,670 creating a real solution to a real problem for real people. 147 00:07:39,000 --> 00:07:42,930 That's entrepreneurship, plain and simple. Now, of course, that 148 00:07:42,930 --> 00:07:46,440 solution is probably a product. But the businesses that did that 149 00:07:46,440 --> 00:07:49,680 do the best in any economy, even when COVID-19 or government 150 00:07:49,680 --> 00:07:53,580 restrictions or controversy in your industry throws everything 151 00:07:53,580 --> 00:07:57,030 around. The businesses that do the best are the ones that stay 152 00:07:57,030 --> 00:08:00,210 focused on the fact that they're not in business to sell a 153 00:08:00,210 --> 00:08:04,590 product, they're in business to sell a solution. And it may be 154 00:08:04,710 --> 00:08:07,950 that the solution needs to shift based on how people's needs 155 00:08:07,950 --> 00:08:11,730 change. Because as a customer or real life human being as their 156 00:08:11,730 --> 00:08:14,700 life changes along with you, their needs change. And so they 157 00:08:14,700 --> 00:08:17,280 have different problems, they need different solutions. And so 158 00:08:17,280 --> 00:08:21,450 the businesses that did really well during the you know, 2020 159 00:08:21,480 --> 00:08:26,610 and during it really well during 2008. And during 2001 and every 160 00:08:26,610 --> 00:08:29,340 other crisis that has happened will happen are the businesses 161 00:08:29,340 --> 00:08:31,770 that stay focused on that on the fact that they're they're in 162 00:08:31,770 --> 00:08:34,500 business to create a real solution to a real problem for 163 00:08:34,500 --> 00:08:36,150 real people. And 164 00:08:36,150 --> 00:08:38,040 Robert Plank: that's one of those like ideas that I feel 165 00:08:38,040 --> 00:08:40,830 like I needed to like maybe like write write on a piece of paper 166 00:08:40,830 --> 00:08:43,200 or write on like a whiteboard somewhere and just like always 167 00:08:43,200 --> 00:08:46,320 be like coming back to him and thinking because it's it's easy 168 00:08:46,320 --> 00:08:48,930 to get second guessed yourself, and it's easy to get caught up 169 00:08:48,930 --> 00:08:52,380 in like the technology. Like I think you you said at one point 170 00:08:52,380 --> 00:08:56,100 that that didn't you own a theme theme company like a WordPress 171 00:08:56,130 --> 00:08:59,130 company of some kind. And it's so easy to think about like, oh 172 00:08:59,130 --> 00:09:02,010 my gosh, like what's, what's my next theme? Or am I going to do 173 00:09:02,010 --> 00:09:04,620 with this with like, the Gutenberg blocks or this change 174 00:09:04,620 --> 00:09:07,260 in WordPress? And it's like, it's like, okay, those things 175 00:09:07,260 --> 00:09:10,050 are important. But then there's the bigger picture, which are 176 00:09:10,050 --> 00:09:13,680 the people and especially with WordPress, specifically over the 177 00:09:13,680 --> 00:09:17,400 years. I mean, there's been so much of just like people's needs 178 00:09:17,400 --> 00:09:20,640 changing their all the time, right? Like some people want to 179 00:09:20,670 --> 00:09:24,390 host their own WordPress site, or maybe we host it for them or 180 00:09:24,450 --> 00:09:28,020 maybe they want like all these these packages all on one or 181 00:09:28,020 --> 00:09:31,200 like all these extra extra add ons or like yearly theme 182 00:09:31,230 --> 00:09:35,400 maintenance packages, and it's really easy to like, just really 183 00:09:35,460 --> 00:09:38,490 like second guess yourself as far as like, what these people 184 00:09:38,490 --> 00:09:41,250 need and what you're going to create for them. Yeah, 185 00:09:41,250 --> 00:09:43,650 Unknown: well, if you're in the business of selling, let's just 186 00:09:43,650 --> 00:09:45,330 use that example. Let's say you're in the business of 187 00:09:45,330 --> 00:09:48,420 selling WordPress themes or WordPress plugins. Well, it's 188 00:09:48,420 --> 00:09:50,280 sort of like you know, you've probably heard the phrase, if 189 00:09:50,280 --> 00:09:52,320 all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail. 190 00:09:52,950 --> 00:09:54,540 You know, and it's sort of like if you're in the business of 191 00:09:54,540 --> 00:09:56,130 selling WordPress themes and plugins, you're gonna stay 192 00:09:56,130 --> 00:09:58,320 focused on selling WordPress themes and plugins, and if 193 00:09:58,320 --> 00:10:00,210 something goes wrong with the WordPress theme or plugin That's 194 00:10:00,210 --> 00:10:03,270 where all your focus goes. And you may miss the fact that all 195 00:10:03,270 --> 00:10:06,540 of your customers have shifted their business model. And so now 196 00:10:06,540 --> 00:10:10,650 their entire business is built off of social media and live 197 00:10:10,650 --> 00:10:14,280 streaming video on different social media platforms. And the 198 00:10:14,280 --> 00:10:17,340 fact that your WordPress theme has not really doesn't interact 199 00:10:17,340 --> 00:10:20,820 with that at all. So we had an essay focus on like, and notable 200 00:10:20,820 --> 00:10:23,670 What am I companies want to say focus on what our consumers 201 00:10:23,670 --> 00:10:26,640 doing, what do they need. And we discovered that there was like 202 00:10:26,640 --> 00:10:28,230 more and more people in different industries were 203 00:10:28,230 --> 00:10:30,090 growing their audience by focusing on creating really 204 00:10:30,090 --> 00:10:33,330 highly engaging short videos, some of it lives with it not on 205 00:10:33,330 --> 00:10:35,850 different platforms, and most WordPress themes that were built 206 00:10:35,850 --> 00:10:39,990 for like a blog, or maybe a podcast. At the best, they're 207 00:10:39,990 --> 00:10:42,240 like, oh, yeah, you could just kind of like embed that on your 208 00:10:42,240 --> 00:10:44,790 website. That's cool, if you want. But that's not really like 209 00:10:44,790 --> 00:10:47,160 take into account what people want people want is to engage 210 00:10:47,160 --> 00:10:50,490 with their audience. And so what we did was we rebuilt our 211 00:10:50,490 --> 00:10:53,040 flagship theme, notable press, which you can learn about it 212 00:10:53,070 --> 00:10:56,190 that will that press if you want, we've rebuilt that. So 213 00:10:56,190 --> 00:11:00,900 that when you're going live on Facebook, or YouTube, or Twitch, 214 00:11:01,080 --> 00:11:04,500 your entire homepage on your website, automatically updates 215 00:11:04,500 --> 00:11:07,950 to show your live video front and center with a live chat 216 00:11:07,950 --> 00:11:11,070 right there. And so now you can tell your subscribers, you can 217 00:11:11,070 --> 00:11:12,900 email them, and instead of saying, hey, go find me on 218 00:11:12,900 --> 00:11:16,050 Facebook, you can say go to my website.com. And you end the 219 00:11:16,050 --> 00:11:18,360 whole livestream experiences right there. So they're able to 220 00:11:18,360 --> 00:11:22,110 still be have their own brand, front and center, and all of 221 00:11:22,110 --> 00:11:24,750 your own tools to grow your email list and things like that. 222 00:11:25,110 --> 00:11:28,650 But you're also leveraging the benefit of the social media 223 00:11:28,650 --> 00:11:30,900 platforms. So you're, it's gonna, you're gonna get the best 224 00:11:30,900 --> 00:11:32,790 of both worlds. Because if you build everything on social 225 00:11:32,790 --> 00:11:36,330 media, well, that's a problem. Because the minute they have a 226 00:11:36,330 --> 00:11:39,930 board meeting or a new algorithm change, you might lose your 227 00:11:39,930 --> 00:11:42,660 whole business, you know, and so you need to have a home on the 228 00:11:42,660 --> 00:11:45,060 web that you control and own, but you sort of leverage those 229 00:11:45,060 --> 00:11:48,000 other platforms. And so that's why again, we had to stay 230 00:11:48,000 --> 00:11:50,700 focused on the fact that like, we don't sell WordPress themes, 231 00:11:50,820 --> 00:11:53,670 you know, we guess we sell WordPress themes. But that's not 232 00:11:53,670 --> 00:11:56,250 the solution we're creating the social recruiting is a content 233 00:11:56,250 --> 00:11:59,280 creation platform allows you to build to grow your audience, and 234 00:11:59,280 --> 00:12:01,830 to generate revenue from that. That's what that's the solution 235 00:12:01,830 --> 00:12:03,930 we're selling. These are just tools to help you get there. 236 00:12:05,100 --> 00:12:08,220 Robert Plank: And like one with it that clicked with for me a 237 00:12:08,220 --> 00:12:10,680 couple of years ago was I had some podcast guests, and we were 238 00:12:10,680 --> 00:12:13,650 talking about the same thing, the subject of like, not being 239 00:12:13,650 --> 00:12:17,220 tied to a keyword. And he was like, well, it's like, if you're 240 00:12:17,220 --> 00:12:20,280 at a ballgame, in the end, the guy with like the hat and the 241 00:12:20,280 --> 00:12:23,250 big ol suspenders in the tray, and he's saying like peanuts, 242 00:12:23,250 --> 00:12:25,290 get your peanuts? Well, if you're saying, you know, get 243 00:12:25,290 --> 00:12:28,710 your WordPress themes, then you're just kind of barking out 244 00:12:28,770 --> 00:12:32,220 just this one keyword. And it's somehow it seems, it seems 245 00:12:32,220 --> 00:12:36,210 cheap, it seems like it's kind of a little bit of fly by night 246 00:12:36,210 --> 00:12:38,460 seems like I don't want to pay a lot of money for it versus if 247 00:12:38,460 --> 00:12:42,810 it's this whole kind of like thought through solution. And 248 00:12:42,810 --> 00:12:46,680 that seems a lot more valuable. And so as far as that, that 249 00:12:46,710 --> 00:12:50,160 specifically that solution that you mentioned, of like, okay, 250 00:12:50,160 --> 00:12:52,680 you live stream, and then your your theme and your website 251 00:12:52,680 --> 00:12:56,550 changes into whatever your live stream right now, like a couple 252 00:12:56,550 --> 00:13:00,660 of a couple of our houses went off for me there and like, like 253 00:13:00,660 --> 00:13:05,280 one from just from hearing that story. One is like, well, what 254 00:13:05,280 --> 00:13:09,000 is someone may be doing five clicks to do right? What is some 255 00:13:09,030 --> 00:13:12,120 what is a, an activity, that's just a pain in the butt? That 256 00:13:12,120 --> 00:13:16,530 could be automatic? Or could be one click? And then also what's 257 00:13:16,530 --> 00:13:19,800 something that they're doing right now, that's kind of like, 258 00:13:20,040 --> 00:13:23,940 too, too risky, or too putting their their eggs in one basket 259 00:13:23,940 --> 00:13:26,880 or something or just what's like, not not the best solution 260 00:13:26,880 --> 00:13:29,160 for them. And so that way, there's kind of like the 261 00:13:29,160 --> 00:13:31,530 marketing piece of saying, well, this isn't the best solution for 262 00:13:31,530 --> 00:13:33,750 you. And then as far as the taking action piece, you're 263 00:13:33,750 --> 00:13:36,870 like, well, instead of you having to do six or seven clicks 264 00:13:36,870 --> 00:13:40,080 and having to say well go and find the on this channel and 265 00:13:40,110 --> 00:13:43,680 change up my blog front page to be this what if at all, it all 266 00:13:43,680 --> 00:13:47,220 just happened? So it just makes me curious, like, how do you? 267 00:13:47,610 --> 00:13:50,340 How do you come across these aha, because I imagine that 268 00:13:50,340 --> 00:13:52,980 there's like months long of thinking involved in there's 269 00:13:52,980 --> 00:13:55,380 like a lot of like talking to your customers. But how do you 270 00:13:55,380 --> 00:13:58,860 come to these conclusions that for example, the WordPress site 271 00:13:58,860 --> 00:14:01,560 needs to change over when there's a live string, things 272 00:14:01,560 --> 00:14:03,660 like that. Yeah, well, 273 00:14:03,720 --> 00:14:06,000 Unknown: I think you started when you mentioned just talking 274 00:14:06,000 --> 00:14:08,280 to your customers, that's the probably the easiest way is find 275 00:14:08,280 --> 00:14:10,200 out what are they actually trying to do? Like, don't talk 276 00:14:10,200 --> 00:14:12,120 to them and try to convince them your products, the best 277 00:14:12,270 --> 00:14:14,610 transfer, what are they trying to accomplish? But I would say 278 00:14:14,610 --> 00:14:17,340 that, you know, I believe empathy is one of the most 279 00:14:17,340 --> 00:14:20,310 powerful skills in business, but you can cultivate it. Empathy 280 00:14:20,310 --> 00:14:21,900 isn't just an on and off switch. It's not like you're an 281 00:14:21,900 --> 00:14:24,750 empathetic person or you're not, it's more like it's a skill you 282 00:14:24,750 --> 00:14:27,480 can cultivate. And empathy is your ability to put yourself in 283 00:14:27,480 --> 00:14:30,480 someone else's shoes, and to think and feel like they think 284 00:14:30,480 --> 00:14:33,780 and feel. And so you want to get to that point where you remember 285 00:14:33,780 --> 00:14:37,200 first of all, this is why I always say business is a is 286 00:14:37,200 --> 00:14:39,900 creating a real solution to a real problem for real people. I 287 00:14:39,900 --> 00:14:43,920 say the word real three times because it's so easy in business 288 00:14:43,920 --> 00:14:46,230 to get focused on how many followers do I have? How many 289 00:14:46,230 --> 00:14:48,360 subscribers do I have? How many customers will have what's my 290 00:14:48,360 --> 00:14:50,730 monthly recurring revenue, what's my conversion rate, and 291 00:14:50,730 --> 00:14:54,180 to forget that every single one of those is a human being with a 292 00:14:54,180 --> 00:14:58,890 soul with hopes with dreams with ambitions, with sleepless nights 293 00:14:58,950 --> 00:15:02,430 with sickness what Never. And so you've got to stay focused on 294 00:15:02,430 --> 00:15:05,100 the fact that these are real human beings, and then focus on 295 00:15:05,100 --> 00:15:08,460 what are they trying to actually accomplish. Now, this is an 296 00:15:08,460 --> 00:15:12,120 oversimplification. But the broad the three broad categories 297 00:15:12,120 --> 00:15:14,040 of how your business can help someone is that you're either 298 00:15:14,040 --> 00:15:17,010 trying to help them become healthier, wealthier or happier, 299 00:15:17,160 --> 00:15:19,500 which one of those is it and then work backwards from there. 300 00:15:19,710 --> 00:15:22,890 Amazon did a great, great job of this when they first came on the 301 00:15:22,890 --> 00:15:26,010 scene where Jeff Bezos recognized where everybody 302 00:15:26,010 --> 00:15:27,630 thought that they were in business selling products 303 00:15:27,630 --> 00:15:29,550 online. That's what people thought they were doing right 304 00:15:29,550 --> 00:15:31,740 there was this e commerce boom, like, we're selling products 305 00:15:31,740 --> 00:15:34,650 online, that Jeff said, No, we're not. We're getting 306 00:15:34,650 --> 00:15:38,220 products to people. And so he started looking at how can we 307 00:15:38,220 --> 00:15:41,310 remove barriers of getting products to people? So one of 308 00:15:41,310 --> 00:15:43,620 those was, and we take this for granted now, because everybody 309 00:15:43,620 --> 00:15:46,620 does it. But at the time, every single website in the world, if 310 00:15:46,620 --> 00:15:49,050 you wanted to buy something, you had to enter all of your 311 00:15:49,050 --> 00:15:51,750 information, name, address, credit card information at every 312 00:15:51,750 --> 00:15:53,790 single time. And so he said, What if we just create an 313 00:15:53,790 --> 00:15:56,640 account center where you could save it? And then they could 314 00:15:56,640 --> 00:16:00,030 just click a one click Checkout? What if you just with one click, 315 00:16:00,030 --> 00:16:02,490 you could buy a product? And everyone's like, that's crazy to 316 00:16:02,580 --> 00:16:05,100 it's complicated, he said, but it gets us closer to the goal. 317 00:16:05,280 --> 00:16:08,640 And so they did it, and they dominate it. And then he said, 318 00:16:08,640 --> 00:16:10,590 Okay, what's the next thing? Well, whatever is provides a 319 00:16:10,590 --> 00:16:12,870 product online, we're not in the business of selling products 320 00:16:12,870 --> 00:16:16,350 online, we're in the business of getting products to people. And 321 00:16:16,350 --> 00:16:19,410 it takes two weeks to ship a product. We did ship it in two 322 00:16:19,410 --> 00:16:21,480 days, everyone said, That's crazy. That's insane. He's like, 323 00:16:21,480 --> 00:16:23,970 That's what people need, it gets us closer to our goal. And so he 324 00:16:23,970 --> 00:16:28,020 made it happen. And so that's a great example of where he built 325 00:16:28,020 --> 00:16:30,480 his massive business. Jeff Bezos built this massive business, 326 00:16:30,480 --> 00:16:35,010 he's literally totally taken him to space now, based on staying 327 00:16:35,010 --> 00:16:37,110 focused on the real solution they offer as a company. 328 00:16:38,340 --> 00:16:40,920 Robert Plank: But and so how do you arrive at those solutions? 329 00:16:40,920 --> 00:16:42,510 Because you mentioned there's like, there's the empathy 330 00:16:42,510 --> 00:16:45,420 aspect. And then we've also like mentioned, like, there's like 331 00:16:45,420 --> 00:16:50,310 the reducing the the hassle of the sales, right? Reduce the 332 00:16:50,310 --> 00:16:52,950 having to enter credit card information every single time. 333 00:16:52,950 --> 00:16:57,360 But like, is there a, is there a repeatable way to get to the 334 00:16:57,360 --> 00:16:59,880 magic every single time because it just seems like, you know, 335 00:16:59,880 --> 00:17:02,880 throughout history, like Steve Jobs thought of this and Elon 336 00:17:02,880 --> 00:17:06,420 Musk thought of this, like, how do we get these Steve Jobs? Elon 337 00:17:06,420 --> 00:17:09,690 Musk, Jeff Bezos types of ideas almost on demand. 338 00:17:10,680 --> 00:17:12,900 Unknown: That's an interesting, fascinating question. I don't 339 00:17:12,900 --> 00:17:14,760 have like a formulaic system that I teach there. But I would 340 00:17:14,760 --> 00:17:18,810 tell you, what I would do is what I do right now is just 341 00:17:18,810 --> 00:17:23,040 literally go through. This isn't mental exercise. But literally 342 00:17:23,040 --> 00:17:26,190 like click, wipe your brain, clear your mind, you are brand 343 00:17:26,190 --> 00:17:29,910 new, you know, and go to your website or your app and walk 344 00:17:29,910 --> 00:17:31,800 through the process of purchasing and using your 345 00:17:31,800 --> 00:17:35,310 product. And just make notes every time you pause. It doesn't 346 00:17:35,310 --> 00:17:37,740 have to be bad. Every time you pause, just be like, Why did I 347 00:17:37,740 --> 00:17:40,470 pause? I didn't know what to do next. Why was that? It seems you 348 00:17:40,470 --> 00:17:42,750 can remove one of those barriers every time something takes you 349 00:17:42,750 --> 00:17:45,030 an extra second, see if you can read one of those barriers, I 350 00:17:45,030 --> 00:17:46,650 would it's literally just like walk you through your own 351 00:17:46,650 --> 00:17:50,970 customer experiences the first part of it. For me, I also like 352 00:17:50,970 --> 00:17:54,900 to, you know, focus on results. by dialing into product 353 00:17:54,900 --> 00:17:57,060 offerings to having three core products, you can have more 354 00:17:57,060 --> 00:18:00,030 products than that. But this is when we can VAs dramatically 355 00:18:00,030 --> 00:18:03,300 simplify the customer purchasing process is having a gateway 356 00:18:03,300 --> 00:18:05,610 product, a continuity flog product and the flagship 357 00:18:05,610 --> 00:18:08,910 product. Now a gateway product, the goal of the gateway product 358 00:18:08,910 --> 00:18:11,490 is actually not to make a bunch of money. The goal of the 359 00:18:11,490 --> 00:18:14,580 gateway product is to be a painless purchase, so that your 360 00:18:14,580 --> 00:18:18,030 customer can take a risk. Because they're following you 361 00:18:18,030 --> 00:18:20,790 they like you they're thinking about maybe want trusting you 362 00:18:20,910 --> 00:18:23,340 and you tell them hey, why don't you just spend $5 and buy this 363 00:18:23,340 --> 00:18:26,250 product or $50, depending on your target customer, whatever a 364 00:18:26,250 --> 00:18:30,030 low payments purchases for them, where that gets them in the 365 00:18:30,030 --> 00:18:32,970 door, or they become a customer. And then you can blow their 366 00:18:32,970 --> 00:18:36,300 socks off by wowing them with transformation. And they go, 367 00:18:36,510 --> 00:18:39,240 Wow, you just earned my trust. And now maybe they're thinking 368 00:18:39,240 --> 00:18:42,420 about your flagship product, which is maybe the 500 or 1000 369 00:18:42,420 --> 00:18:45,270 or 2000 or $10,000 product, again, depending upon your 370 00:18:45,270 --> 00:18:49,230 target market and demographics. But that flagship product is 371 00:18:49,230 --> 00:18:52,140 sort of like you communicate right away, this is the epitome 372 00:18:52,230 --> 00:18:55,260 of the full transformation of what we offer. And even though 373 00:18:55,260 --> 00:18:58,920 95% or more of your customers will never buy that flagship 374 00:18:58,920 --> 00:19:02,100 product, if they see it and they know it exists. It gives them it 375 00:19:02,100 --> 00:19:04,680 gives them something to aspire to. And so it gives them a 376 00:19:04,680 --> 00:19:07,200 reason to engage with you and your brand your customer. Now 377 00:19:07,200 --> 00:19:10,290 the continuity product or the subscription product is just a 378 00:19:10,290 --> 00:19:14,460 way to keep automatic customer engagement month after month 379 00:19:14,460 --> 00:19:16,860 after month. You don't have to keep selling them tubes of 380 00:19:16,860 --> 00:19:19,380 toothpaste or razors. We can get them so that they're 381 00:19:19,410 --> 00:19:22,980 automatically staying being customers month after month is 382 00:19:22,980 --> 00:19:24,870 the glue that holds everything together. If you just have a 383 00:19:24,870 --> 00:19:27,240 gateway product, a continuity product and a flagship product, 384 00:19:27,360 --> 00:19:30,870 you can build an incredibly successful profitable business. 385 00:19:31,020 --> 00:19:33,390 But if you build more you can have more products than that. 386 00:19:33,510 --> 00:19:35,820 But the goal is if you have more products than that make sure you 387 00:19:35,820 --> 00:19:38,760 don't confuse people on which product is your gateway product 388 00:19:38,880 --> 00:19:41,250 so they know where to begin. which product is your continuity 389 00:19:41,250 --> 00:19:44,280 products. They know how to stay engaged with you day after day, 390 00:19:44,280 --> 00:19:46,380 month after month, or which product is your flagship 391 00:19:46,380 --> 00:19:49,830 products they know what full transformation looks like. Does 392 00:19:49,830 --> 00:19:50,400 that help us? 393 00:19:50,760 --> 00:19:53,760 Robert Plank: It does and it gives it gives us a lot to think 394 00:19:53,760 --> 00:19:56,820 about so gate gateway product continuity product flagship 395 00:19:56,820 --> 00:19:59,760 product and you're making me think about you know guys like 396 00:19:59,760 --> 00:20:02,730 Grant Cardona is like Cardona university or, you know, high as 397 00:20:02,760 --> 00:20:06,600 Platform University you were mentioning before. And and yeah, 398 00:20:06,630 --> 00:20:10,890 that's, that's huge just getting people like the thing to move up 399 00:20:10,890 --> 00:20:14,280 to and aspire to. And that the whole idea also of the gateway 400 00:20:14,280 --> 00:20:18,870 product, they kind of, I guess the way that hits me is to maybe 401 00:20:18,870 --> 00:20:22,380 not be super married to our products. And it's really easy 402 00:20:22,380 --> 00:20:24,810 to say, well, I put all this work, and I'm making these 403 00:20:24,810 --> 00:20:27,900 videos, and I'm just gonna, you know, the products most 404 00:20:27,900 --> 00:20:31,290 important thing and, and you're making me think of, you know, in 405 00:20:31,290 --> 00:20:33,810 the book, you mentioned a little bit about that co working space 406 00:20:33,810 --> 00:20:36,870 and how you did things like you filled up like the bookshelf 407 00:20:36,870 --> 00:20:40,110 with a bunch of, you know, like business books and things like 408 00:20:40,110 --> 00:20:44,610 that. And so the coworking idea in general makes me think of, 409 00:20:44,700 --> 00:20:47,580 like, I've talked to co working people on this podcast before, 410 00:20:47,580 --> 00:20:50,790 and a lot of them are just like obsessed with giving away things 411 00:20:50,790 --> 00:20:53,580 for free, because the co working spaces just to get them in the 412 00:20:53,580 --> 00:20:56,250 door, you know, and also, some of these co working people will 413 00:20:56,250 --> 00:20:59,220 say, like, oh, yeah, try us out for a week and just come in and 414 00:20:59,220 --> 00:21:01,650 take bring in your backpack. And you can work here for a week, 415 00:21:01,650 --> 00:21:04,350 and you'll love it so much that you want to stay in. And then 416 00:21:04,350 --> 00:21:07,440 also, I imagine that like, for some people, the co working 417 00:21:07,440 --> 00:21:11,190 spaces, maybe like a, like an incubator of sorts, or a way to 418 00:21:11,310 --> 00:21:15,060 like figure out joint ventures or podcasting or live events or 419 00:21:15,060 --> 00:21:18,270 things like that. And so yeah, the the whole even just the idea 420 00:21:18,270 --> 00:21:21,030 of the gateway product in general, you know, some people 421 00:21:21,030 --> 00:21:24,120 talk about having like the self liquidating offer, or the 422 00:21:24,120 --> 00:21:27,630 tripwire or things like that, but it's a lot later, you know, 423 00:21:27,720 --> 00:21:30,240 it's like that, but it seems seems like your, your idea is 424 00:21:30,240 --> 00:21:33,120 kind of like, it's slightly bigger than all that, it's like 425 00:21:33,120 --> 00:21:37,560 you said, well, like blow them away, and get them to, to do 426 00:21:37,590 --> 00:21:40,560 like to do more things with you. And so and then also makes me 427 00:21:40,560 --> 00:21:44,040 think of, okay, so with the continuity product, you're 428 00:21:44,040 --> 00:21:46,860 coming out of Platform University, and I know, we keep 429 00:21:46,890 --> 00:21:51,450 mentioning that, but there's, I've seen so many of these kind 430 00:21:51,450 --> 00:21:56,700 of continuity forever, content based non auto ship, non 431 00:21:56,700 --> 00:22:00,390 ecommerce sites really fail, right? They'll they'll start 432 00:22:00,390 --> 00:22:02,820 with like big aspirations, and they'll, they'll load up so much 433 00:22:02,820 --> 00:22:05,430 content in there that you'll join, and you'll never be able 434 00:22:05,430 --> 00:22:08,070 to get through at all. So you'll just have to stay and keep 435 00:22:08,070 --> 00:22:10,350 paying every month. And you'll you won't notice the bill on 436 00:22:10,350 --> 00:22:12,870 your credit card. And it seems like they all crash and burn 437 00:22:12,990 --> 00:22:17,280 pretty quickly. So like, what do you think that you were doing? 438 00:22:17,280 --> 00:22:20,130 Right? Or what do you think like Platform University was doing 439 00:22:20,130 --> 00:22:23,130 right? As far as this continuity site where so many other people 440 00:22:23,160 --> 00:22:23,850 mess it up? 441 00:22:24,750 --> 00:22:28,260 Unknown: Well, you you kind of just give it away, because what 442 00:22:28,260 --> 00:22:30,330 you were just quoting, were all of like, the wrong reasons to 443 00:22:30,330 --> 00:22:32,430 start a continuity site is if you're all focused on the 444 00:22:32,430 --> 00:22:34,710 product and saying, like, okay, we're just gonna give them so 445 00:22:34,710 --> 00:22:36,840 much content, there's no way they can finish it until, say, 446 00:22:36,840 --> 00:22:38,430 members forever, and then eventually, they're going to 447 00:22:38,430 --> 00:22:41,220 just forget that they have subscriptions. And like, we're 448 00:22:41,220 --> 00:22:43,680 just going to like, basically take their money, like, I mean, 449 00:22:43,680 --> 00:22:47,610 like they agreed to give you the money. But instead, if you come 450 00:22:47,610 --> 00:22:50,370 back to the focus of business being transformation, the 451 00:22:50,370 --> 00:22:53,910 question has to be, how are you creating a continuity product 452 00:22:53,910 --> 00:22:57,090 that has so much value that's giving them so much value and a 453 00:22:57,090 --> 00:23:00,120 monthly basis is making their life better, that's making them 454 00:23:00,120 --> 00:23:02,910 they're healthier, wealthier, happier, that they can't imagine 455 00:23:02,910 --> 00:23:06,240 doing without it. Now, you also got to know that there are 456 00:23:06,240 --> 00:23:08,610 seasons in everyone's life, so you're never going to create the 457 00:23:08,610 --> 00:23:10,500 perfect product. So that like you're going to have customer 458 00:23:10,500 --> 00:23:13,380 state for literally ever, because even a customer who may 459 00:23:13,380 --> 00:23:15,930 love your business may recognize Okay, right now, I'm in a season 460 00:23:15,930 --> 00:23:17,940 where I can't spending time on this. And so I'm going to 461 00:23:17,940 --> 00:23:21,450 cancel. So my what I would teach is, first of all, what the 462 00:23:21,450 --> 00:23:26,610 cognitive product. Whatever the delivery mechanism may be 463 00:23:26,670 --> 00:23:30,600 digital or physical, it's you got the goal of it is to keep 464 00:23:30,600 --> 00:23:33,780 someone engaged with your business, and they can be highly 465 00:23:33,840 --> 00:23:39,000 lucrative. But what I would say is, go again, coming back to 466 00:23:39,000 --> 00:23:41,820 those three, the businesses that I've seen platform diversity 467 00:23:41,820 --> 00:23:43,860 included, the businesses that I've seen being the most 468 00:23:43,860 --> 00:23:46,740 profitable and successful, have all three, not gender, not 469 00:23:46,740 --> 00:23:49,110 trying to build their whole empire on this one subscription 470 00:23:49,110 --> 00:23:52,140 product. That's the glue that holds everyone together, so that 471 00:23:52,140 --> 00:23:55,200 they can recommend their flagship program, or that so 472 00:23:55,200 --> 00:23:57,480 that they can get in, they can use the gateway products get 473 00:23:57,480 --> 00:24:00,690 people in, because the other thing is today, people have 474 00:24:00,690 --> 00:24:03,000 subscription fatigue. And we all have like 20 things we're 475 00:24:03,000 --> 00:24:06,420 subscribed to everything's a subscription now. And so because 476 00:24:06,420 --> 00:24:08,310 of that, it's actually kind of hard to sell a subscription 477 00:24:08,310 --> 00:24:11,490 product right out of the gate. It's easier if you sell someone 478 00:24:11,700 --> 00:24:14,520 a gateway product, it's just a one time purchase, that gives 479 00:24:14,520 --> 00:24:17,280 them so much value that they want. They recognize that you've 480 00:24:17,280 --> 00:24:20,790 earned their trust. I mean, it's literally just like any other 481 00:24:20,790 --> 00:24:24,270 relationship in life, if you've got a friend who just is 482 00:24:24,270 --> 00:24:26,760 constantly asking for things, but not giving you anything in 483 00:24:26,760 --> 00:24:29,820 return, well, eventually you stop texting or calling them and 484 00:24:29,820 --> 00:24:32,280 you just let them kind of fade from your life. Like you don't 485 00:24:32,280 --> 00:24:34,920 spend time with them. Because relationships are meant to be a 486 00:24:34,920 --> 00:24:37,530 mix of give and take. we all we all owe each other something. 487 00:24:38,940 --> 00:24:42,090 And that's the same way in between is true in business. If 488 00:24:42,090 --> 00:24:44,430 you have a friend who's always just taking from you like it's 489 00:24:44,430 --> 00:24:47,190 subscription marketer who's not really giving you value in 490 00:24:47,190 --> 00:24:51,510 return, then they're they're not welcome in your life. And so 491 00:24:51,510 --> 00:24:54,840 don't be that person. Don't be that you know, entrepreneur 492 00:24:54,840 --> 00:24:56,820 instead focus on how you can create something that's so 493 00:24:56,820 --> 00:24:57,960 valuable they can't do without it. 494 00:24:59,250 --> 00:25:01,260 Robert Plank: And this it's Seems like the like a theme of 495 00:25:01,260 --> 00:25:04,800 our conversation is going back to the empathy. But also like, 496 00:25:05,370 --> 00:25:07,740 for some reason my brain keeps thinking like, it's more like a 497 00:25:07,740 --> 00:25:12,420 reverse logic. Like it like it's tempting or like the the natural 498 00:25:12,420 --> 00:25:14,970 way of thinking is like, Okay, I'll make this thing and they'll 499 00:25:14,970 --> 00:25:18,120 give me money, but then kind of the reverse is like, what do 500 00:25:18,120 --> 00:25:21,990 they want? And if they were going to give me like, $100, 501 00:25:21,990 --> 00:25:25,110 what could it make that would give them like $300 back or 502 00:25:25,110 --> 00:25:28,620 $500? Back or the equivalent because like you said, sometimes 503 00:25:28,620 --> 00:25:32,220 it's, it's about health, or it's about being smarter, right, not 504 00:25:32,220 --> 00:25:35,040 just about return on my money, depending on like, what the 505 00:25:35,040 --> 00:25:37,620 niches and things like that, but it's just, that's, that's what's 506 00:25:37,620 --> 00:25:41,400 kind of like the second mile concept in your book, like with 507 00:25:41,400 --> 00:25:43,500 Chick fil A, and things like that. And there's like the 508 00:25:43,680 --> 00:25:47,160 dropbox thing where like, you know, they give you this amount 509 00:25:47,160 --> 00:25:50,460 for free. And then the more that you recommend to the friends, 510 00:25:50,460 --> 00:25:53,220 and it grows based on that, and so there's all kinds of like, 511 00:25:53,310 --> 00:25:55,890 different approaches, but it's like, what it keeps coming back 512 00:25:55,890 --> 00:25:59,940 to for me is like, what do they want, and maybe like reverse 513 00:25:59,940 --> 00:26:04,380 engineer the offer of what they want. And then and then the like 514 00:26:04,380 --> 00:26:06,900 things like the price and all that kind of works itself out, 515 00:26:06,900 --> 00:26:09,120 because then it's just a matter of when it's more like the 516 00:26:09,120 --> 00:26:12,510 multiplier or their percentage, and you're not driving yourself 517 00:26:12,510 --> 00:26:15,300 crazy with all the second guessing. And, and somehow it 518 00:26:15,330 --> 00:26:18,420 hurts my brain to think about this. But I think that these are 519 00:26:18,420 --> 00:26:21,780 all like, they're really deep concepts that we all need to be 520 00:26:21,780 --> 00:26:25,200 focusing on that it's so easy to ignore or forget about, because 521 00:26:25,200 --> 00:26:27,540 we just get caught up in all this day to day chaos, 522 00:26:27,600 --> 00:26:29,880 especially during COVID times. Yeah, 523 00:26:30,360 --> 00:26:32,580 Unknown: yeah, that's true. And I think and the reality is, like 524 00:26:32,580 --> 00:26:34,560 you're saying, like, it feels like backwards, but it's 525 00:26:34,560 --> 00:26:37,200 actually like business that's backwards like that, at some 526 00:26:37,200 --> 00:26:39,870 point, we decided that we need to focus on like conversion, 527 00:26:39,870 --> 00:26:42,810 optimization and marketing hacks. And I'm not opposed to 528 00:26:42,810 --> 00:26:46,110 conversion optimization. It's just like, why? Well, because 529 00:26:46,110 --> 00:26:48,030 our business is helping people making the world a better place. 530 00:26:48,060 --> 00:26:50,430 Entrepreneurship is beautiful. It's where all of the progress 531 00:26:50,430 --> 00:26:52,890 in our world comes from. I'm a huge fan of entrepreneurship. 532 00:26:53,070 --> 00:26:55,110 And I'm a huge fan of entrepreneurs making money. But 533 00:26:55,110 --> 00:26:57,450 the the paradox here is that to be successful, as an 534 00:26:57,450 --> 00:27:00,300 entrepreneur, you need to be more focused on serving people 535 00:27:00,300 --> 00:27:02,550 and making money to be able to make money. It's like this. It's 536 00:27:02,550 --> 00:27:05,220 this paradox, a twist. And but if I could just share one story 537 00:27:05,220 --> 00:27:07,500 I learned recently, which I think since I wrote the book, 538 00:27:07,500 --> 00:27:10,140 which I think really illustrates this. There's an indigenous 539 00:27:10,140 --> 00:27:12,180 community. And I wish I knew what country was in I don't 540 00:27:12,180 --> 00:27:15,000 remember offhand. But there's this indigenous community where 541 00:27:15,000 --> 00:27:17,430 there was an anthropologist went to go study them, and she went 542 00:27:17,430 --> 00:27:20,220 to go live in their village. And when she got there, she moved to 543 00:27:20,220 --> 00:27:22,980 this little hut. And then throughout the day, people kept 544 00:27:22,980 --> 00:27:25,020 coming and bringing stuff to her, like someone bring her a 545 00:27:25,020 --> 00:27:27,480 basket of fruit, someone else would bring her, you know, like 546 00:27:27,480 --> 00:27:30,450 a small table, they made someone else brought the butter, a goat, 547 00:27:30,690 --> 00:27:33,690 and she's just like, What is going on here? And so she has a 548 00:27:33,690 --> 00:27:35,850 local guide, and she asks them, she's like, What do I do with 549 00:27:35,850 --> 00:27:37,920 all of this? And she and he said, Well, you have to give 550 00:27:37,920 --> 00:27:40,590 them something in return. And she was like, Okay, so like, if 551 00:27:40,590 --> 00:27:43,050 someone gave me a basket of fruit, did, I need to give them 552 00:27:43,050 --> 00:27:46,200 something of like, equal value, and he said, Only if you never 553 00:27:46,200 --> 00:27:48,300 want to see them ever again. And you're telling them that you 554 00:27:48,300 --> 00:27:51,570 don't want them in your life. And she was like, wait, what. 555 00:27:52,200 --> 00:27:55,140 And he said, You have to give them back something. And this is 556 00:27:55,140 --> 00:27:57,090 how all human societies work, they just have a great 557 00:27:57,120 --> 00:28:00,450 illustration of it here. That you have to give them back 558 00:28:00,450 --> 00:28:03,510 something that is either worth more or less than what they gave 559 00:28:03,510 --> 00:28:07,260 you. Because if they give you a basket of apples, and you give 560 00:28:07,260 --> 00:28:09,840 them back a goat that's worth more than a basket of apples, 561 00:28:10,290 --> 00:28:13,590 well, then now they owe you. And so there's a reason for you to 562 00:28:13,590 --> 00:28:16,890 have a relationship. If they gave you a goat, and you give 563 00:28:16,890 --> 00:28:20,070 them back a small table that's worth less than a goat, well, 564 00:28:20,100 --> 00:28:23,550 then now you owe them. And so there's a reason for you to have 565 00:28:23,550 --> 00:28:26,400 a relationship. Human relationships are built on the 566 00:28:26,400 --> 00:28:28,950 fact that we need each other. And so this little community, 567 00:28:28,950 --> 00:28:31,140 this little village had this built into ingrained in their 568 00:28:31,140 --> 00:28:34,020 culture. But I think it's true to global scale, that in 569 00:28:34,020 --> 00:28:36,960 business, the reason why customers keep buying from us is 570 00:28:36,960 --> 00:28:40,080 because they feel like what we're giving them is so valuable 571 00:28:40,110 --> 00:28:43,320 that they owe us. And the reason why we get paid for that is 572 00:28:43,320 --> 00:28:45,510 because we've we've created value in their life, because we 573 00:28:45,510 --> 00:28:47,940 need each other, we owe each other something. And so we just 574 00:28:47,940 --> 00:28:50,070 have to remember the human dynamic of entrepreneurship, 575 00:28:50,070 --> 00:28:53,370 because it's so easy to get lost in the numbers and the data and 576 00:28:53,370 --> 00:28:56,700 the likes and the shares. And then you know, notifications, 577 00:28:56,700 --> 00:28:58,620 and just forget that these are we're talking about real human 578 00:28:58,620 --> 00:29:00,480 beings and their side of this who need our help. 579 00:29:01,650 --> 00:29:03,960 Robert Plank: Best huge that's like really deep to think about 580 00:29:03,960 --> 00:29:07,200 that. Yeah, it's it's never it never, there's never quite the 581 00:29:07,200 --> 00:29:09,990 equilibrium. But that's a good thing. Because there's always 582 00:29:09,990 --> 00:29:14,190 the the continuing, like relationships there. And also 583 00:29:14,190 --> 00:29:17,880 what I'm kind of getting is that, you know, things like they 584 00:29:17,880 --> 00:29:20,550 exact numbers and exact conversions. Like there's a time 585 00:29:20,550 --> 00:29:23,220 and a place for that. It's like how you said you put the 586 00:29:23,310 --> 00:29:26,460 financial stuff near the end, right? You put the profit first 587 00:29:26,490 --> 00:29:31,110 ideas near the end, because that that is a thing to be visited at 588 00:29:31,110 --> 00:29:36,000 times, but you know, maybe 10% or 20% of the time, not not 90% 589 00:29:36,000 --> 00:29:39,210 of the time, it's easy to get off track and easy to it's easy 590 00:29:39,210 --> 00:29:42,030 to like forget about the big picture and why you got into 591 00:29:42,030 --> 00:29:45,150 entrepreneurship in the first place. And, and even like, you 592 00:29:45,150 --> 00:29:47,070 know, before we started recording this call you and I 593 00:29:47,070 --> 00:29:50,250 were talking about, like, you know, on, like teaching 594 00:29:50,250 --> 00:29:54,150 entrepreneurship to kids. But like, you can't teach only 595 00:29:54,150 --> 00:29:57,180 entrepreneurship to kids, right? Like even I still sometimes have 596 00:29:57,180 --> 00:29:59,850 to send kids to school and sometimes it's easy to say like 597 00:29:59,850 --> 00:30:03,900 well Well, you know, school was just based on a teaching kids 598 00:30:03,900 --> 00:30:06,480 like the nine to five lifestyle. And the reason why like the bell 599 00:30:06,480 --> 00:30:08,910 goes off at school is because it's like the bell going off at 600 00:30:08,910 --> 00:30:13,080 the factory. But what like, why not teach both things, right? 601 00:30:13,080 --> 00:30:16,110 And why not say, well in this in this situation, you know, 602 00:30:16,110 --> 00:30:20,130 structure and having assignments and being being given work and 603 00:30:20,160 --> 00:30:23,010 completing tasks, sometimes you do have to do that. And other 604 00:30:23,010 --> 00:30:26,610 times you have to be the big dreamer. But like, maybe the 605 00:30:26,610 --> 00:30:30,780 lesson is be adaptable. And if the situation calls for this 606 00:30:30,780 --> 00:30:33,090 strategy, do that. And if the situation calls for that 607 00:30:33,090 --> 00:30:36,150 strategy, do this other thing. And so yeah, there's, it's, I 608 00:30:36,150 --> 00:30:38,970 feel like, man, it's like a whole, like, lifestyle 609 00:30:38,970 --> 00:30:42,510 philosophy, discussion we've been having as far as like, 610 00:30:42,570 --> 00:30:44,820 sometimes the big picture is sometimes the nitty gritty 611 00:30:44,820 --> 00:30:48,720 details. So in order to just not leave our listeners and viewers 612 00:30:48,870 --> 00:30:52,680 so completely lost and more confused than they, when they 613 00:30:52,680 --> 00:30:56,970 started, like, what would you say that of like your book and, 614 00:30:57,000 --> 00:30:59,880 you know, surviving through COVID? Like, could you distill? 615 00:30:59,880 --> 00:31:03,120 Like, what's the number one most important thing that we all need 616 00:31:03,120 --> 00:31:06,210 to be focusing on? Especially the next, like, 12 months moving 617 00:31:06,210 --> 00:31:08,640 forward? What would you say? Oh, 618 00:31:08,880 --> 00:31:12,330 Unknown: that's a great question. Okay, so here's a big 619 00:31:12,330 --> 00:31:15,480 one, if you're sorry, that to throw more big complicated 620 00:31:15,480 --> 00:31:17,910 things in there, but this is a big one, the age of information 621 00:31:17,910 --> 00:31:22,350 is over. What, that's crazy. I mean, it's like it's sort of 622 00:31:22,350 --> 00:31:24,690 like at one point in time, the Stone Age existed, right? People 623 00:31:24,690 --> 00:31:27,660 had like stone axes, they weren't that sharp, they broke 624 00:31:27,660 --> 00:31:29,730 often, but they didn't know any better. They thought that was 625 00:31:29,730 --> 00:31:32,100 the best technology around. And then somebody discovered that 626 00:31:32,100 --> 00:31:34,650 you could forge bronze and the Bronze Age began. And if you 627 00:31:34,650 --> 00:31:37,740 were running a business using stone age technology, you are 628 00:31:37,740 --> 00:31:40,980 now relevant and out of date, right? Well, that similar shift 629 00:31:40,980 --> 00:31:43,170 is going on right now we've just gone from the age of information 630 00:31:43,320 --> 00:31:46,410 to the age of insight, where during the Age of Information, 631 00:31:46,620 --> 00:31:48,900 every our world was characterized by the fact that 632 00:31:48,900 --> 00:31:51,480 we have access to all the information to the world. And so 633 00:31:51,540 --> 00:31:54,150 most of the successful businesses over the last 50 634 00:31:54,150 --> 00:31:57,210 years, were focused on this idea of getting people access to 635 00:31:57,210 --> 00:32:01,140 information to resources to products all over the world. But 636 00:32:01,140 --> 00:32:02,850 now we have access to everything, and we're 637 00:32:02,850 --> 00:32:05,880 overwhelmed, and we're drowning in it. And so what people are 638 00:32:05,880 --> 00:32:10,140 looking for as not more things, or more data, or more stuff, or 639 00:32:10,140 --> 00:32:13,980 more access, or it what people are looking for is insight, 640 00:32:14,190 --> 00:32:18,060 which is information that has been distilled and filtered down 641 00:32:18,060 --> 00:32:22,170 by expertise. And so if you can position your business, you 642 00:32:22,170 --> 00:32:26,160 know, not as, like, just use some everyday examples. Don't 643 00:32:26,160 --> 00:32:28,920 position your business as the dry cleaner that gets you access 644 00:32:28,920 --> 00:32:33,180 to dry cleaning services, position your business as the 645 00:32:33,180 --> 00:32:38,340 authority on dressing your best and being at work. And so yeah, 646 00:32:38,370 --> 00:32:41,340 you happen to do use dry cleaning services is one of the 647 00:32:41,340 --> 00:32:44,010 ways to keep people looking their best at work, but focus on 648 00:32:44,010 --> 00:32:46,950 the insight of like, how can you distill all the complexity that 649 00:32:46,950 --> 00:32:48,660 we're all down to the one transformation you offer 650 00:32:48,660 --> 00:32:51,300 someone, if you're in an information product business, 651 00:32:51,480 --> 00:32:53,970 like if you're a coach, or a blogger, or a podcast, or 652 00:32:53,970 --> 00:32:56,910 YouTube or anything like that, then you to focus less on giving 653 00:32:56,910 --> 00:33:00,300 people access to ideas. And because people don't want at 654 00:33:00,300 --> 00:33:03,000 this point, people are overwhelmed. They don't want 100 655 00:33:03,000 --> 00:33:06,330 tips and tricks. They want the three that matter. And so you 656 00:33:06,330 --> 00:33:09,030 owe it you need to set yourself up as the authority in your 657 00:33:09,030 --> 00:33:12,300 industry. We used to always say like, you know, the Rolodex 658 00:33:12,300 --> 00:33:13,950 you've probably heard that 100 times like, you know, and the 659 00:33:13,950 --> 00:33:16,290 Rolodex like, you know, when someone slips to the Rolodex or 660 00:33:16,290 --> 00:33:18,600 looking for the plumber, the lawyer than what are they 661 00:33:18,600 --> 00:33:21,150 looking for when they see your name? But lately, I've just been 662 00:33:21,150 --> 00:33:24,900 saying like, Who are you gonna call? Ghostbusters, right? Be 663 00:33:24,900 --> 00:33:27,390 the Ghostbusters of your industry, where when someone 664 00:33:27,390 --> 00:33:29,730 says they have this problem, and they go like, Man, I want to 665 00:33:29,730 --> 00:33:31,380 know what to do about my health. And I want to know what to do 666 00:33:31,380 --> 00:33:34,080 about managing my money, or I want to know what to do about 667 00:33:34,620 --> 00:33:38,880 looking great at professionally work, where you're the person 668 00:33:39,000 --> 00:33:42,000 and your business is the business that they think of. And 669 00:33:42,060 --> 00:33:44,820 that's what's going to be a shift that's just begun. 670 00:33:45,450 --> 00:33:48,720 According to the World Economic Forum, not just Johnny's, that 671 00:33:48,720 --> 00:33:50,850 shift has just begun, it's going to continue to happen over the 672 00:33:50,850 --> 00:33:53,340 next five to 10 years, where it's going to be dramatic and 673 00:33:53,340 --> 00:33:54,420 shift a lot of industries. 674 00:33:55,230 --> 00:33:57,930 Robert Plank: That's powerful. And you hear about things like 675 00:33:57,960 --> 00:34:00,780 like Bill Gates, at some point said, get in front of the wave, 676 00:34:00,780 --> 00:34:03,660 right? Like every three to five years, things get disrupted, and 677 00:34:03,660 --> 00:34:06,300 instead of waiting for the wave to happen, and then trying to 678 00:34:06,300 --> 00:34:08,640 play catch up, why not get in front of it. So what you're 679 00:34:08,640 --> 00:34:13,080 saying is, is less information, less of ideas, more insights, 680 00:34:13,080 --> 00:34:16,710 and more solutions and more of, okay, here's the person I'm 681 00:34:16,710 --> 00:34:19,680 thinking of, here's the person I'm going to call. So these are 682 00:34:19,680 --> 00:34:23,970 all things that we need to be deeply and longingly thinking 683 00:34:23,970 --> 00:34:26,460 about so that way we can get to where we need to go in our 684 00:34:26,460 --> 00:34:30,510 business, and the book is survive and thrive. And so where 685 00:34:30,510 --> 00:34:33,540 should people go to to get this book to find out about you to 686 00:34:33,540 --> 00:34:36,600 find out about your course give us some some URL, some next 687 00:34:36,600 --> 00:34:39,990 steps or some short insight, some solutions, right? So 688 00:34:39,990 --> 00:34:42,930 Unknown: if you go to survive and thrive book.com Of course, 689 00:34:42,930 --> 00:34:45,810 you'll find links there to where you can find the book on Amazon, 690 00:34:45,840 --> 00:34:49,020 audible Barnes and Noble you know, bookshop and all the other 691 00:34:49,020 --> 00:34:52,230 wonderful places you can buy books, but you will also see an 692 00:34:52,230 --> 00:34:54,450 opportunity there where after you order the book, you can put 693 00:34:54,450 --> 00:34:58,140 your email address in and download the cheat sheet. So 694 00:34:58,140 --> 00:35:00,540 this is the playbook the one page You should have everything 695 00:35:00,540 --> 00:35:02,670 we talked about and everything in the book that talks about how 696 00:35:02,670 --> 00:35:05,190 to apply this to your business. So I would just go there and 697 00:35:05,190 --> 00:35:07,320 start there, because that's a good place to start in terms of 698 00:35:07,470 --> 00:35:10,290 the fill in the blank playbook. I'm calling it a cheat sheet, 699 00:35:10,290 --> 00:35:13,110 but it's a playbook. The fill in the blank playbook walks you 700 00:35:13,110 --> 00:35:16,080 through, you know, clarifying your reel per year, the real 701 00:35:16,080 --> 00:35:19,050 people you help the real problem they have the real solution that 702 00:35:19,230 --> 00:35:22,200 you offer, how that relates to your marketing strategy, or your 703 00:35:22,200 --> 00:35:26,310 product strategy, all on a one page plan. So go to survive and 704 00:35:26,310 --> 00:35:28,350 thrive book.com, and you can get that resource for free. 705 00:35:28,980 --> 00:35:31,860 Robert Plank: Fantastic. So survive and thrive. book.com 706 00:35:31,950 --> 00:35:34,290 Google right now, while the podcast is still playing, don't 707 00:35:34,290 --> 00:35:37,440 be one of those people that writes Yeah, now we have double 708 00:35:37,440 --> 00:35:40,530 time. But don't write it down and come back to it later. Do it 709 00:35:40,530 --> 00:35:42,510 while we're still on the podcast, at least get the 710 00:35:42,510 --> 00:35:45,570 browser tab open that way you can get to it because chances 711 00:35:45,570 --> 00:35:48,900 are in the next 15 seconds, some other distraction will pop up 712 00:35:48,990 --> 00:35:49,200 and 713 00:35:49,200 --> 00:35:51,000 Unknown: some other piece of information, you'll get a 714 00:35:51,180 --> 00:35:53,730 notification and yeah, so that's something 715 00:35:53,730 --> 00:35:56,430 Robert Plank: else in the noise and who needs that? Will that 716 00:35:56,430 --> 00:35:58,920 really get you to where you need to go? Will that really build 717 00:35:58,920 --> 00:36:01,860 your business? Well, I don't think so. But what will get your 718 00:36:01,860 --> 00:36:05,580 business to the next step and to the next crisis, or, you know, 719 00:36:05,610 --> 00:36:09,900 the next breakthrough is survive and thrive. book.com I 720 00:36:09,900 --> 00:36:12,090 personally I'm going to get it so you listening in podcast 721 00:36:12,090 --> 00:36:15,180 land, we're going to together technically survive and thrive 722 00:36:15,180 --> 00:36:18,600 book.com Go there and get the playbook cheat sheet whatever it 723 00:36:18,600 --> 00:36:21,990 makes sense for you to call this one pager, survive and thrive 724 00:36:21,990 --> 00:36:26,100 book.com. And as we completely finally wrap up, I guess in a 725 00:36:26,100 --> 00:36:29,250 good way, right? We left them with a lot of information, but 726 00:36:29,250 --> 00:36:32,100 also wanting more a little bit of that disparity that we talked 727 00:36:32,100 --> 00:36:35,220 about where we delivered so much now. Now you're just good. It's 728 00:36:35,220 --> 00:36:37,140 never going to end you're always going to be thinking about man, 729 00:36:37,140 --> 00:36:40,140 what what do I do next to survive and thrive? So any final 730 00:36:40,140 --> 00:36:43,350 final parting words here, John, before we wrap up this whole 731 00:36:43,350 --> 00:36:47,160 conversation, and as people go to survive and thrive? book.com 732 00:36:47,790 --> 00:36:48,030 Thank 733 00:36:48,030 --> 00:36:50,100 Unknown: you so much, Robert. The final thing I would just say 734 00:36:50,100 --> 00:36:53,400 is keep up the good work. And by that that's easy to say it's 735 00:36:53,400 --> 00:36:55,380 what it says at the bottom of every one of my emails that I 736 00:36:55,380 --> 00:36:58,260 send out, keep up the good work. But I want you to think about 737 00:36:58,260 --> 00:37:01,320 that. Just really just dwell on that. What is the good work that 738 00:37:01,320 --> 00:37:03,960 you do? What is the work that you do that actually is where 739 00:37:03,960 --> 00:37:06,690 you drive results? I don't mean refreshing LinkedIn or scrolling 740 00:37:06,690 --> 00:37:09,420 through Instagram. I mean, like what is the work you do that 741 00:37:09,420 --> 00:37:12,150 actually drives results in your business and that makes the 742 00:37:12,150 --> 00:37:14,970 world a better place. Do more of that. Keep that up and do less 743 00:37:14,970 --> 00:37:15,570 of the rest?