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announcer: marketer of the Day
episode 815 behavioral change,

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improve your marketing and grow
revenue with Sean Doyle.

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Robert Plank: Hey, and welcome
back to the marketer of the day

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podcast. We're here with Mr.
Sean M. Doyle himself. His

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website is Sean M. doyle.com,
and Fitz martin.com. He is the

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principal at Fitz Martin Inc,
which is a leading consultancy

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focused on sales, marketing and
management, sales and marketing

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technology services and revenue
operations for b2b companies.

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Shawn and his team are focused
on long term value creation

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through a sales first scientific
approach to driving revenue.

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Shawn, nice to meet you glad to
have you on.

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Unknown: I'm excited about me,
that was a great introduction.

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It's like

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Robert Plank: on a resume, you
put your best foot forward and

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you have like the 12 best
things. And so hopefully, I

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think you can live up to your
expectations. And so Jumping

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right in, there's so many things
we could talk about. But what

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has you personally, Mr. Shawn,
excited over the last six to

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nine months about your business
about just some innovative

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stuff, what do you have

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Unknown: man, the rapid evolving
of digital marketing

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technologies, particularly in
pursuit of high value customers,

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so the way that we're able to go
into a client, we're doing a

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turnaround right now helping a
company $100 million ish company

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that's in rapid decline. And
we're gonna be able to go in and

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just share with them we have
shared with them, the ideas of

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give us your your top 150
prospects, the ones that will

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move the needle that will change
your game, and will actually

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help you communicate digitally
with them specifically, at each

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step in the sales cycle as is
appropriate, deliver the right

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message at the right time. And,
you know, the response is like,

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well, you mean like Google ads?
Mike? No, no, like Google ads on

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steroids, like Google ads, done
amazingly, like amazing sales

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support middle of the funnel
work. And we've just been able

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to anchor into that in a way
that we've never been able to

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help the client close a $250
million deal. We helped a

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client, close a some early
stage, but lifetime value

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probably over probably over
$100,000 A year kind of deals.

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So those are emerging middle
market companies that are

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looking to use marketing and
pull a lever in a way they've

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never been able to pull it
before. We're able to do that in

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today's digital marketing
environment. And it's really a

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sales environment. And it's
just, it's just exciting that

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the advisory services work we're
doing is just exploding and the

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work we're doing in revenue
operations, that middle of the

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funnel, because I'm getting
excited here, Robert, guess let

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me down, man. So I would just
say this. People, if you've

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tried this marketing automation,
you've tried some of these shiny

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objects over the last five
years, and you're frustrated and

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don't think it works. It's not
that it doesn't work. It's that

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there's one gap missing. And
it's that middle of the funnel.

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And we've been able to come in
and help people close the gap

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between that early stage
marketing stuff, and that later

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stage sales stuff, and use
marketing an incredibly

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effective way. So I were
measured, it's measurable, we

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know we can return about $284
For every dollar people spend

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with us. So measurable return
for anybody is exciting. You

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know, it's anyway, just exciting
times. I love it. I'm an old

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man, this is like my third job
in marketing, right? And I've

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been with one company for 30
years. It's we've just, it's

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exciting.

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Robert Plank: Well, I mean, I
can I can feel your excitement

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through the computer screen.
It's a great time to be alive.

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And so so a couple of things in
there. So first of all, you said

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that you taught you focus on
their top 150 customers. And I'm

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interested to because I already
have a few ideas in my head

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about like things that you could
be doing, like chasing them on

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LinkedIn, or calling them or
snail mail, or I imagine there

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might be something like all of
the above. But I mean, I'm just

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kind of like the brains going
crazy with all these guesses.

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And that but even before jumping
into that you keep mentioning

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this term, like middle of the
funnel, and you say going from

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the something like you said,
like the early marketing to the

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later sales stage or something
along those lines. And so when

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we say middle of the funnel,
what does that look like?

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Mechanically, like, what are the
steps are the pieces there?

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Unknown: So a fair question. The
science that we follow is the

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transtheoretical theorem of
behavioral change, right? We

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call that cognitive marketing
because I can't spell

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Transtheoretical also, the, I
guess I could off to try it

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again. But it's really brilliant
science. The science of change

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is just sales. The act of buying
something is a change in your

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behavior. You used to do
something one way now you're

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going to do it another way,
right? You're going to buy from

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a new vendor, or you didn't ever
you do anything at all and Now

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you're going to buy something to
do just start something new,

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right? I never went to the gym.
Now I'm going to go to the gym,

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it's a new behavior, where I
used to use this product. Now

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I'm going to use that product.
Now most of my work is in b2b,

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it's significant capital
expenditures, multiple decision

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makers, elongated sales cycles.
So when I'm talking about middle

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of the funnel, it the behavioral
science says that there are in

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this steps to making a change.
There's awareness kind of stuff,

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right? The science calls that
pre contemplation. Every

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marketing firm, every agency
I've ever met with, gets that

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stuff, you've probably done some
of that stuff. You've you've

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built a website, you went to a
trade show, you did an ad, like

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that's all that early stage
stuff, then we think about sales

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coming in and closing deals,
right. That's what in the

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behavioral science we would talk
about. That's the exchange

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relationship, it's moving from
action to exchange, like the

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idea of learning how to take a
make a behavioral change, and

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make that change. And that's
what sales is great at. So

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what's the middle of the funnel,
that's the idea of somebody goes

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to your website, they learn a
little bit, then they move into

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preparing to make the change.
Now, when that preparation

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starts, that's middle of the
funnel, that is a time when

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different processes a help
people move forward. So the

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stuff that helped create
awareness and get people to

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begin exploring this behavioral
change, it no longer works with

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very few exceptions, at least,
the emotional arousal,

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irrational reevaluation, the
consciousness raising, that

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stuff doesn't help move people
through to a deal. So now you've

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got to use different processes
based on this behavioral

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science, we're able to
emphatically and accurately and

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scientifically help people
understand that now a helping

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relationship, let's get somebody
to make a private commitment

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than a public commitment. Let's
use countering techniques and

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environmental controls and small
rewards for positive behavior.

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So those are the techniques that
are middle of the funnel, that

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marketing should be able to come
in. So okay, that's a ton of

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stuff. What did I mean? What did
I mean by all that, right? So

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bottom line is, most of you
listening have thought about

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marketing and sales as these two
polarized things, the middle

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ground is the gold, that's the
thing that's gonna help you make

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it work, the middle ground, the
sales development reps, the

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business development reps, the
intersection of marketing, the

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handoff of a lead from marketing
and sales. That's the goal. And

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that's the frontier that's being
uncovered right now, that's

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really yielding the most return.
So that middle of the funnel is

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probably simply said, it's that
thing that happens after

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marketing owns it, and before
sales owns it. That's where I'd

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spend my money. That's where I'm
saying to our clients spend your

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money and make that work very
well. So to your set, your first

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point, Robert, these 150
prospects, we call it selling

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backwards. So instead of going
out and ginning up, hey, there's

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10,000 people that might buy
from us, and then ginning up a

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group, and then that group gets
smaller, and then that group

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gets smaller and, you know, kind
of a traditional old school

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funnel thinking, instead of
that, why don't we just invest

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all of our money in the 150
people who we know would make a

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difference, instead of talking
about lead quality and spending

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money on more awareness and, and
get, let's just focus our

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communications on the people
that matter. And then in

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addition to that, let's focus
the messaging so specifically,

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that I guess a sales guy would
probably call this hunting

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elephants. It's kind of an old
school phrase, right? Well,

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let's build we're building
websites, not just to share the

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story of a product or a service.
We're building websites. For

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example, we've got a company
that wants to sell to Komatsu.

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Big, everybody knows Komatsu,
right, Caterpillar come out to

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John Deere, those big companies.
Well, if we go after these if

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they follow our advice, and we
go after these three companies,

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then we're gonna build a website
for John Deere website for

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Komatsu and a website for
Caterpillar to see and we're

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gonna drive the traffic from
those those sources to web pages

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that are built to give specific
features benefits, strategic

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advantages that our client has,
that caterpillar would care

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about, or that John Deere would
caterpillar that would care

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about so we're going to talk to
sales, right? It's sales job to

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have business intelligence to
know here's the three things

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that they're talking about a
caterpillar just in time

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inventory, finance problem and
the quality of materials. Well,

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we can build a website around
the weaknesses, the strategic

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weaknesses of our competitors
now, right so we can sell and

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Caterpillar can see your company
through the lens of what they

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care about, not through the lens
of what you as a manager. Facts

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are care about. And this works
in real estate, it works in

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serve any kind of services, it
works. It's flipping it. So

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we're selling backwards, we're
selling from the people in your

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database that are closest to a
deal. And once you do that, then

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move back and try to fix that
middle of the funnel, then go

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back earlier stage, then all the
way back to awareness. 90% of

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the people out there start by
creating awareness, and then

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they get frustrated, because
you've got so much work to do.

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And it takes so long to happen.
Now, again, context, Robert, I

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do b2b, large capex emerging
middle market companies. I don't

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know if this works sell on a can
of Coca Cola or not. But this

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works for those bigger companies
as big exchange relationships,

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which I would include services
and, and high, highly considered

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consumer goods would fit into
this category as well. So wow,

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okay, you got me excited again?

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Robert Plank: Well, just by you
talking about and, and so like,

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there's a lot to follow there.
But it seems like with this,

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this strategy, it seems like
there's a lot less guessing,

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because you said like the old
school way of doing it that way,

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that's just like throwing
throwing stuff at the wall as

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you start with 10,000 and see
how they funnel down. And it

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seems to me like it's so much
guessing I like every stage

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there. And it seems like just a
matter of setting some things up

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and just seeing who falls out
seeing who gets through your

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maze and who doesn't versus
your, your, your idea here of

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the top 150. And kind of like
you said, hunting the elephants

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in going out and figure out what
they want, it seems a lot more

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logical. And it seems a lot more
like you'd be likely to to

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actually finish because as
opposed to like setting up all

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these steps of the funnel and
getting stuck or wondering why

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it's not working, that seems
really frustrating versus

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actually thinking things
through. And I mean, what a

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concept, figuring out what they
need, and then selling it back

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to them. I like that a lot. And
then so Oh, go ahead.

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Unknown: I'm 90% sure you're
from California. And I'm 90%

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sure Walt Disney was the one who
said, figure out what the people

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want and build it for them.
Right? Yeah, what, uh, concepts,

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it seems to work pretty well.
Yeah, just think that the more

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you Jin, the more generic things
get, the less effective they

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are. So if I've got to give a
message to 10,000 people, I've

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got to give a relatively generic
message to try to engage a chunk

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of them. The irony is, the more
specific I get, I do exclude

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more people from the
conversation. But I can engage

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them more deeply. So the inverse
of that is, go back to

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caterpillar. If I know the three
problems, that caterpillar that

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my company can sell into, that
will help. Why would I not have

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the conversation around those
three pain points. And pain

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points are also from you Cal
Berkeley, we follow some

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behavioral science that talks
about everybody has personal

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pain, everybody has strategic
pain, everybody has financial

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pain. So if you look at that
framework, and make sure your

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sales and marketing is
addressing the financial,

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strategic and personal pains of
the person, you're trying to

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help with the behavioral change,
and I use the word help not

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sell. If you're going to help
that person change to a better

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solution, then you should know
the strategic financial and

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personal pains. And then that
should be the messaging. I mean,

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think, think about like, let's
let's start over. If you're on a

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date with a significant other,
and you're sitting at the table

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at your meal and and enjoying a
conversation, do you start with

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these big, big, big, huge claims
that are broad and generic, like

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about the human race? Or do you
start by asking the person

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questions, and then you hear
them answer. And you hear what

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they say, and you go, Okay, I
just learned a little bit about

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that person. Maybe I can lean
into that. And let's talk about

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that. If I know anything about
it, or if I don't know anything

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about it, and I'm a decent human
being. I'm going to say that's

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fabulous. Tell me more about
that. I don't know anything

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about that. You know, I mean,
you have a conversation with

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significant others in your lives
around irrelevant, narrow, tight

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focuses. Because that's that's
what a conversation is, right?

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If I just go walk in to a date
with a significant other, and I

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say, Well, I'm just going to
spend some time talking to you

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generically about me if you'll
just sit there and enjoy your

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water and wine and your meal
while I punt on about me, me and

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me. Am I ever gonna have a
second day?

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Robert Plank: Now you're
basically you're in person

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spamming them. You're just
saying the same thing for

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everyone. There's no
customization. There's no back

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and forth. Who wants that?

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Unknown: One of my favorite co
workers always says when people

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talk to themselves, we say
they're crazy. When marketers

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talk to themselves and about
themselves. When businesses I've

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ruined the punch line when
Businesses talk about

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themselves. We call it
marketing. Right? So, so yeah,

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quit talking about yourself talk
about their needs. And you asked

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what's exciting digital
marketing today, that's such a

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generic phrase I know. But
marketing today, through many

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digital tools is incredibly
personable, and clear and

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incredibly relevant, and
incredibly sales driven. So

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here's the test. Here's an easy
test for your listeners, when's

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the last time your marketing
team and your sales team got

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together to work on a deal? Now,
I suggest your answer is

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probably not anytime that you
can even remember. And I'm not

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talking about, hey, the website
had 3000 visitors and we got 120

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leads. That's not a meeting I'm
talking about, hey, we got this

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deal. It's late stage, how can
you support us said sales or

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marketing saying, Hey, here's
two or three tools that we've

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designed that are designed to
help you with late stage

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problems that your customer
needs? And what if, hey, what if

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we build you a webpage for this
deal? You know, when's that

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happening? So I think an easy
test of your agency or an easy

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test of your marketing,
leadership is How involved are

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they late stage with sales. And
it's common to see very little

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dialogue there. And it's also
common, if you talk to sales to

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say, for them to say
rhetorically or in some way or

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another. No, I don't let
marketing in on that. Because

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you've designed my compensation.
So I don't get paid, unless I

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close the deal. And those people
don't know what I'm doing. They

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don't understand closing deals.
Well, rhetorically, that's what

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they're saying when they say no,
we don't talk to marketing, I

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got it. I got it. I don't, I
don't want your help. I don't

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need your help. Right. So if
marketing doesn't know how to

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close late stage, if they're not
formed late stage as your

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marketing team or leadership,
ever done sales training to

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learn how to close deals, I
mean, the book that I've based

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my career on the last 15 years
is not even my book, I'm gonna

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00:17:02,040 --> 00:17:06,510
pumps somebody else's book here.
It's changing for good. I mean,

286
00:17:06,510 --> 00:17:11,070
read the book changing for good.
And getting used copy on eBay.

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00:17:11,070 --> 00:17:14,430
It's great book. It's, it's
technical. And it's but it's all

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about how behavioral changes
that how behavior changes. And

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then from that, you can learn
how to impact late stage change,

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otherwise called sales, right?
So it's, it's a, I mean, learn,

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learn, learn, be curious.

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Robert Plank: I mean, Curiosity
is is great, especially in this

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case, where like, I know that
you have your niche, you're very

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b2b focused, and, and it follows
some of what you said and a lot

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of what you said, but then some
of the people who are listening

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may not be 100% dialed in to
your niche. But even if they

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aren't, a lot of these marketing
principles that you're talking

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about, still apply. Even like
with the like Mark marketing and

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sales talking to each other,
even if it's only a few people,

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that's still important. And even
some of the things you're

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talking about, like, like
building a website to close

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deal. You mentioned that and
like, I mean, that's, that's

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right there. That's an old
technique that I used to do 10

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years ago used to make
individual web pages for

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individual people for these
$1,000 courses. And it would

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00:18:11,970 --> 00:18:14,430
work again and again. And it's
one of those things where it was

307
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such a good idea, I stopped
doing it. And then about two

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months ago, I started doing it
again again. And as you're doing

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it as you're cranking out the
web pages, or even like

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00:18:22,650 --> 00:18:24,900
delegating and making all the
instructions and checking the

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work either way, it's a bore, or
a bore or bear or whatever you

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00:18:28,890 --> 00:18:31,650
call it, it's it's a hassle. But
then when it starts to pay off

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in little bits, like just doing
the legwork and focus, like you

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00:18:35,010 --> 00:18:38,070
said, even focusing on this top
customers, there's just some of

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these techniques that are super
simple, but yet no one wants to

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do it. And so even if that some
of these things don't exactly

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100% fit or apply to our own
niche or business, like the

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general principles are still
super helpful.

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Unknown: So put your CEO hat on
Robert, and I'm going to play

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00:18:55,470 --> 00:18:59,310
the role of the marketing guy.
Hey, Robert, I'm going to spend

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$7,000 And I'm gonna stand up a
deal page for one of our

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00:19:04,080 --> 00:19:06,540
prospects. How do you feel about
that?

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00:19:07,170 --> 00:19:09,990
Robert Plank: I don't like the
$7,000. That's crazy.

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00:19:10,620 --> 00:19:14,280
Unknown: Okay, now I'm an SVP of
sales. Hey, Robert, I gotta fly

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00:19:14,280 --> 00:19:17,880
out to Cali. I'm gonna go with
my lead on this deal. It's gonna

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00:19:17,880 --> 00:19:21,060
be two of us. We're going to
take the flight out flight back

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00:19:21,060 --> 00:19:25,770
hotel rooms, probably going to
cost $6,000 But I 7000 Navy

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00:19:25,770 --> 00:19:30,990
$8,000. But I've got an audience
with the decision makers. You're

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00:19:30,990 --> 00:19:31,920
good with that? Right?

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Robert Plank: If you have an
audience, that's better.

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Unknown: Yeah, you'd send me
right. But the first idea is an

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00:19:40,230 --> 00:19:44,040
idea that could get in front of
your CFO, the CFO of the

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00:19:44,040 --> 00:19:47,970
prospect, the CEO, the SVP of
sales, procurement, research and

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00:19:47,970 --> 00:19:51,030
insights, middle level, mid
level decision makers,

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00:19:51,030 --> 00:19:55,260
influencers, others, and it's an
asset that you can then adopt

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00:19:55,290 --> 00:19:59,220
later to your next deal. And you
just have to change your

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messaging. So So, we're usually
pretty quick to send sales on a

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00:20:04,890 --> 00:20:08,760
long trip, or even an overseas
trip, where we're easily into

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00:20:08,760 --> 00:20:12,810
the 10s of 1000s. But marketing
spending 7k on a deal page is

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00:20:12,810 --> 00:20:16,020
usually refused. So it's just
going to take executive

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00:20:16,020 --> 00:20:19,470
leadership rethinking the
building of assets and is going

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00:20:19,470 --> 00:20:23,160
to take sales trusting now do
you still do trusting that

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00:20:23,160 --> 00:20:25,800
marketing knows what they're
doing. And in fact, trusting

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only comes after evidence,
right. So if you're a marketer,

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00:20:29,370 --> 00:20:32,550
listening to this, get that book
and understand late stage sales

346
00:20:32,550 --> 00:20:38,370
better, get changing for good or
all interpreted for you can come

347
00:20:38,370 --> 00:20:43,380
to fits Martin's website fits
martin.com or Sean M doyle.com.

348
00:20:43,500 --> 00:20:46,320
There's some free videos on
there. And I'll it's the

349
00:20:46,320 --> 00:20:51,810
interpreted version, or go to
Amazon and buy shift, sh IFT.

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00:20:51,840 --> 00:20:55,200
And it's a book I wrote for
executives, who are in charge of

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00:20:55,200 --> 00:20:58,350
marketing, but not trained for
the task, and it gives you a

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00:20:58,350 --> 00:21:01,380
couple chapters of it. That was
my shameless plug for my own

353
00:21:01,380 --> 00:21:07,020
book. The but it gives you a
broken down understanding of

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00:21:07,020 --> 00:21:09,030
this, you don't have to
interpret it, but no matter how

355
00:21:09,030 --> 00:21:12,930
you do it, think about that. And
executives think about investing

356
00:21:12,930 --> 00:21:16,440
in marketing and late stage
manners if your marketing team

357
00:21:16,440 --> 00:21:19,860
can, can deliver on
understanding what that is they

358
00:21:19,860 --> 00:21:22,050
should be doing. It'll pay off.

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00:21:22,650 --> 00:21:24,870
Robert Plank: Well, fantastic.
What we're all about shameless

360
00:21:24,870 --> 00:21:27,690
plugs here and as many as
possible. So we said Fitz

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00:21:27,690 --> 00:21:33,150
martin.com, Sean M. doyle.com.
And something you said in there

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00:21:33,150 --> 00:21:36,780
in that last little answer was
something that hit me was this

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00:21:36,780 --> 00:21:40,410
idea of, you know, sometimes
when you have like a plan, or

364
00:21:40,410 --> 00:21:43,170
people working together or
trying something new, it can

365
00:21:43,170 --> 00:21:46,650
always be, like difficult or
awkward at first. But once you

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00:21:46,650 --> 00:21:50,190
have that template, whatever the
template is, which might, it's

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00:21:50,190 --> 00:21:53,730
might be, you know, get this
room together and get this

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00:21:53,730 --> 00:21:56,190
audience and fly down there.
Like it's always awkward at

369
00:21:56,190 --> 00:21:58,980
first. But if you've done it
before, if you know the steps

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00:21:59,010 --> 00:22:02,520
before, in whatever context and
whatever decade and whatever

371
00:22:02,520 --> 00:22:05,880
technology you're using, just
clone the template again, and

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00:22:05,880 --> 00:22:09,150
then it's way less awkward. It's
way less scary the next time.

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And that's just one of those.
That's what hit me when you're

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00:22:11,940 --> 00:22:14,910
explaining some of that. And I
want to make sure that in this

375
00:22:14,910 --> 00:22:18,420
last few minutes of our
conversation here that we talk

376
00:22:18,420 --> 00:22:20,820
about this book shipped because
before we started recording, I

377
00:22:20,820 --> 00:22:23,550
said, I know nothing about it, I
just know it's a bright red

378
00:22:23,550 --> 00:22:26,640
cover. And I've seen it in some
retargeting ad or something. So

379
00:22:26,730 --> 00:22:30,270
I'm curious if someone says what
the heck is shift, if I know

380
00:22:30,270 --> 00:22:33,420
nothing about it and watch it or
read it. Tell me about shifts.

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00:22:34,080 --> 00:22:37,050
Unknown: So I mentioned I'm old,
right? So I've had done about

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00:22:37,050 --> 00:22:42,660
5000 engagements over a 30 year
career. And one thing I've seen

383
00:22:42,660 --> 00:22:47,520
consistently is people put in
charge of marketing CEOs who

384
00:22:47,520 --> 00:22:52,590
came up through maybe finance or
maybe sales or other avenues.

385
00:22:52,860 --> 00:22:56,340
And they're now in charge of the
company. And they've never been

386
00:22:56,340 --> 00:23:00,510
trained to do marketing, they've
never understood marketing, or

387
00:23:00,510 --> 00:23:04,200
maybe even never been around a
good marketer. And the net

388
00:23:04,200 --> 00:23:07,770
result is marketing is
undervalued. So typically, when

389
00:23:07,770 --> 00:23:12,870
I do advisory services, the
lever I can pull is marketing to

390
00:23:12,870 --> 00:23:15,540
deliver the most performance
that they didn't have before.

391
00:23:15,720 --> 00:23:18,150
Because most people know how to
do finance Well, or they've got

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00:23:18,150 --> 00:23:21,960
an accountant that gets him to
do that. Well. Most people know

393
00:23:21,960 --> 00:23:25,080
how to manufacture their or do
services or deliver their

394
00:23:25,080 --> 00:23:28,710
services? Well, most people
don't know all the different

395
00:23:28,710 --> 00:23:31,560
functions of business, right?
Most people are pretty schooled

396
00:23:31,560 --> 00:23:36,090
in that HR risk management
cetera cetera. Marketing is this

397
00:23:36,150 --> 00:23:40,560
obtuse thing. And it's not soft
science. It is hard science man.

398
00:23:40,800 --> 00:23:44,580
So cognitive marketing is the
transtheoretical theorem of

399
00:23:44,580 --> 00:23:49,440
behavioral change, built for
marketing, get that book and

400
00:23:49,440 --> 00:23:55,320
then shift his 19 specific ideas
for the executive in charge of

401
00:23:55,320 --> 00:23:59,790
marketing, but not trained for
that task. And it will help you

402
00:23:59,790 --> 00:24:03,960
it'll give you practical 19
practical ideas, including one

403
00:24:03,960 --> 00:24:06,270
of my favorite chapters is a
chapter where I give four

404
00:24:06,270 --> 00:24:10,530
questions that you can ask a
marketing leader or candidate.

405
00:24:10,740 --> 00:24:14,490
And if they can't answer those
four questions, walk away.

406
00:24:14,670 --> 00:24:18,420
They're just triggers walk away.
They're principle based, you

407
00:24:18,420 --> 00:24:20,970
don't even have to understand
the answers. But if they don't

408
00:24:20,970 --> 00:24:24,120
have a point of view on these
four questions, you need to hire

409
00:24:24,120 --> 00:24:28,140
a different person. So I just
think that I wanted to help I'm

410
00:24:28,140 --> 00:24:30,720
old enough now I'm going to give
you my secrets and I want to

411
00:24:30,720 --> 00:24:34,410
help people be successful. And
shift is designed to do that. It

412
00:24:34,410 --> 00:24:37,710
was published by rock bench out
of Nashville, which I was

413
00:24:37,710 --> 00:24:41,070
honored by that publishing
company and and of course, it's

414
00:24:41,070 --> 00:24:46,140
available on the only store in
the world anymore. Amazon so or

415
00:24:46,140 --> 00:24:49,920
you can shoot me an email Robert
designed, he offered to pay for

416
00:24:49,920 --> 00:24:53,310
a few of them. So just shoot me
an email Shawn at Fitz Martin

417
00:24:53,640 --> 00:24:58,590
and SCA n at Fitz martin.com.
And I will send them to you

418
00:24:58,620 --> 00:25:00,510
courtesy of Robert Clank

419
00:25:01,410 --> 00:25:04,530
Robert Plank: nice. I'll pay you
back in Bitcoin. So Shawn at

420
00:25:04,530 --> 00:25:08,070
Fitz martin.com is where you can
contact Sean. And we mentioned

421
00:25:08,070 --> 00:25:11,130
those other websites. If you
have a question for him, and you

422
00:25:11,130 --> 00:25:13,800
want a copy of that book, email
him and you know, you know what,

423
00:25:13,800 --> 00:25:17,370
Shawn, like, what is your ideal
client? Like? What is the type

424
00:25:17,370 --> 00:25:20,790
of person that you would exactly
like to send you one of these

425
00:25:20,790 --> 00:25:23,640
email messages that could be
just snooping and listening

426
00:25:23,640 --> 00:25:24,120
today?

427
00:25:24,450 --> 00:25:27,000
Unknown: Yeah, I want that
executive of that emerging

428
00:25:27,000 --> 00:25:30,960
middle market, b2b company that
you've what's gotten you to

429
00:25:30,960 --> 00:25:34,110
where you are now is just
hitting walls. And you're just

430
00:25:34,110 --> 00:25:37,380
at the point where you've got to
change some things, you're

431
00:25:37,380 --> 00:25:42,780
probably doing 25 50 million a
year, and you're ready to do 200

432
00:25:42,780 --> 00:25:46,620
million, and you need to shift
the way you're thinking not a

433
00:25:46,620 --> 00:25:49,200
plug on the book, but just
change the way you're thinking

434
00:25:49,200 --> 00:25:53,010
about marketing and sales and,
and how those things should work

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00:25:53,010 --> 00:25:56,790
together. So that's who I'd love
to hear from and who can help

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00:25:56,790 --> 00:25:58,050
most most. Yeah.

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00:25:58,620 --> 00:26:01,200
Robert Plank: Fantastic. Well,
if that sounds like you exactly.

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00:26:01,200 --> 00:26:04,260
If you felt like Shawn was
reading a page out of your

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00:26:04,260 --> 00:26:07,110
diary, then send them that
message, Shawn at Fitz

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00:26:07,110 --> 00:26:10,980
martin.com. We also mentioned
Sean M. doyle.com. Fitz

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00:26:10,980 --> 00:26:14,940
martin.com. And get the book
shift on Amazon run, don't walk,

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00:26:14,940 --> 00:26:18,000
go get it right now. And we'll
see you there. So Thanks, Shawn,

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00:26:18,000 --> 00:26:20,760
for stopping by and for sharing
some of this cool stuff with us.

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00:26:20,880 --> 00:26:23,010
Unknown: It's been great fun,
you have a great platform and I

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00:26:23,010 --> 00:26:25,620
loved seeing what you do. So
thank you for the time, Robert.

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00:26:30,150 --> 00:26:32,070
Robert Plank: We really
appreciate you being a listener

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00:26:32,070 --> 00:26:35,100
of the marketer of the day
Podcast the place to go right

448
00:26:35,100 --> 00:26:38,100
now. If you want to know more
about running your own podcast

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00:26:38,130 --> 00:26:44,100
is dF y podcast.com/free. Go
there right now claim your free

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00:26:44,100 --> 00:26:48,450
gift. DF why? podcast.com/free