1 00:00:02,220 --> 00:00:04,860 Robert Plank: Welcome back to the marketer of the day podcast. 2 00:00:04,860 --> 00:00:08,730 We're here with Mike g analyst, and Mike grows and scales 3 00:00:08,730 --> 00:00:11,820 companies. He uses real world experience to make it happen. 4 00:00:11,970 --> 00:00:15,630 Mike helps leaders and entrepreneurs live better lives 5 00:00:15,630 --> 00:00:18,270 and build bigger businesses. And we're going to find out what 6 00:00:18,270 --> 00:00:21,930 that means for you personally, as far as motivation, headlines, 7 00:00:21,960 --> 00:00:24,750 copywriting scaling your business, Mike is the kind of 8 00:00:24,750 --> 00:00:27,660 guy you need to sit up and pay very close attention to. So 9 00:00:27,660 --> 00:00:28,890 Mike, glad to be talking to you. 10 00:00:29,220 --> 00:00:32,310 Unknown: Hey, man, I'm happy to be here is quite cool for me. 11 00:00:32,940 --> 00:00:35,850 Robert Plank: What? It's cool for me too. And so can you tell 12 00:00:35,910 --> 00:00:39,810 us? What is your stick? What is your deal? And what has you 13 00:00:39,810 --> 00:00:40,740 fired up lately? 14 00:00:41,250 --> 00:00:43,740 Unknown: Sure, man. So basically, at this point in my, 15 00:00:43,770 --> 00:00:48,390 you know, time I've been at this kind of stuff going on, I have 16 00:00:48,960 --> 00:00:52,740 hate to say but, you know, closing in on 20 years in this 17 00:00:52,740 --> 00:00:57,300 kind of internet space. But right now, what I'm mainly 18 00:00:57,300 --> 00:01:02,820 focused on is a group of partners and myself, we acquire 19 00:01:02,880 --> 00:01:06,660 companies, and we help grow them and scale them. Sometimes we 20 00:01:06,660 --> 00:01:11,220 partner with people, if it kind of makes no sense. But it just 21 00:01:11,220 --> 00:01:15,690 depends on on how that stuff is. But yeah, so I just like to kind 22 00:01:15,690 --> 00:01:19,980 of on the side, I kind of share things share tips and advice. 23 00:01:20,070 --> 00:01:23,280 Right now we're focusing mainly on health companies and 24 00:01:23,280 --> 00:01:27,300 supplement companies. So that's been kind of what we, you know, 25 00:01:27,300 --> 00:01:33,090 do I started on that track back in 2018, where we took a health 26 00:01:33,090 --> 00:01:36,150 company in over the last few years, we've been able to scale 27 00:01:36,150 --> 00:01:40,710 it about five acts for about 900 grand, almost 5 million in 28 00:01:40,710 --> 00:01:41,730 annual sales, 29 00:01:42,420 --> 00:01:44,820 Robert Plank: exciting and fantastic. And I like your 30 00:01:44,820 --> 00:01:47,760 strategy here of not just starting from scratch, right? 31 00:01:47,760 --> 00:01:49,920 Because that's really tempting to say, well, I've got some 32 00:01:49,920 --> 00:01:52,860 idea. And then who knows how many years that will take and 33 00:01:52,950 --> 00:01:56,010 who knows how much your own time will be split, because now 34 00:01:56,010 --> 00:01:59,250 you're working on, like 12 projects instead of 11 projects? 35 00:01:59,250 --> 00:02:01,920 Well, this is cool, because you say you find these businesses 36 00:02:01,920 --> 00:02:04,830 that I don't know maybe underperforming as a mean way of 37 00:02:04,830 --> 00:02:07,830 saying it, but there are definitely missed opportunities 38 00:02:07,860 --> 00:02:10,830 are definitely things that can be done with you when applying 39 00:02:10,830 --> 00:02:13,350 your marketing juice. And I see this all the time with some of 40 00:02:13,350 --> 00:02:16,110 these guys come in. And they they the business is worth this. 41 00:02:16,170 --> 00:02:19,380 And it's making this amount and they just apply a few marketing 42 00:02:19,470 --> 00:02:23,400 tricks like running ads, building a list of changing the 43 00:02:23,400 --> 00:02:26,040 product line, they just make these tiny changes. And it 44 00:02:26,040 --> 00:02:29,280 really explodes the business. So it's exciting to hear about 45 00:02:29,280 --> 00:02:32,370 stories like that. So to give us an idea of you working your 46 00:02:32,370 --> 00:02:35,670 magic, can you tell us one of one of these stories about like, 47 00:02:35,790 --> 00:02:38,400 I don't know if you feel like sharing about this 5x company 48 00:02:38,400 --> 00:02:41,010 here, but can you just tell us about some company that you 49 00:02:41,010 --> 00:02:45,090 swooped in, and why you chose them? And then what you did to 50 00:02:45,090 --> 00:02:46,170 really beef things up? 51 00:02:46,380 --> 00:02:50,040 Unknown: Sure. That's great. Um, this is not that I that I that I 52 00:02:50,070 --> 00:02:53,730 enjoy a lot. So yeah, I'll give you a few stories. One, the 53 00:02:53,730 --> 00:02:56,910 company that we were that we were able to buybacks, mainly 54 00:02:56,910 --> 00:03:01,440 that one was just was I was honestly just scaling paid 55 00:03:01,440 --> 00:03:04,920 traffic. And I know that's not very sexy. But what we did with 56 00:03:04,920 --> 00:03:09,210 that company was we came in, we were able to get a better line 57 00:03:09,210 --> 00:03:14,130 of credit with Facebook. Again, you never see this tall I hit me 58 00:03:14,130 --> 00:03:17,370 like this is no tall strategy. It's always some little weird 59 00:03:17,370 --> 00:03:20,760 Facebook ad hack, right. But what we were able to do was 60 00:03:20,760 --> 00:03:24,150 because it was a cheaper product, the it was tougher to 61 00:03:24,150 --> 00:03:31,620 scale. So we were able to get a $1 million credit line. And that 62 00:03:31,650 --> 00:03:35,640 was able to buy us 30 days extra, which allowed us to spend 63 00:03:35,640 --> 00:03:39,750 more time on the ads more, more more spend on the ad and we have 64 00:03:39,750 --> 00:03:44,880 a 30 day cycle. So before we go through the bigger upsell, so 65 00:03:44,880 --> 00:03:47,310 that does help to expand things out, we were able to bring in 66 00:03:47,310 --> 00:03:51,270 more staff, better product, better support. And we all we 67 00:03:51,270 --> 00:03:55,740 also did a lot of streamlining and we also began to automate a 68 00:03:55,740 --> 00:03:59,100 lot of things that were being done live. So that particular 69 00:03:59,100 --> 00:04:03,030 one was a lot of systems and financial stuff. Again, not very 70 00:04:03,030 --> 00:04:07,590 sexy, but that's the real stuff right now, one that I can say 71 00:04:07,590 --> 00:04:11,550 too, like we did have an issue where the front end was kind of 72 00:04:11,550 --> 00:04:15,780 struggling. So we were able to create. And again, this is 73 00:04:15,780 --> 00:04:20,160 probably like the secret sauce and to me and for you sure, I'm 74 00:04:20,160 --> 00:04:24,600 sure to so simple, but just adding in more upsells tweaking 75 00:04:24,600 --> 00:04:28,380 the upsell pricing. It's amazing how many people don't do that. 76 00:04:28,380 --> 00:04:31,410 They just join me. No, they don't know. Or they think 77 00:04:31,410 --> 00:04:35,580 they've already got it. And so we were able to come in and add 78 00:04:35,580 --> 00:04:40,440 this was in the keto space. So we were able to take well we 79 00:04:40,440 --> 00:04:45,720 already had all this. We had we already had a bunch of recipes. 80 00:04:45,990 --> 00:04:50,280 And we were able to take all the ones that were like, sweet or 81 00:04:50,280 --> 00:04:54,300 salty, and we made like the sweet and salty cookbook and we 82 00:04:54,300 --> 00:04:58,410 threw that on as an upsell. I wrote the copy and literally 83 00:04:58,770 --> 00:05:03,180 half an hour Under. And that thing's still now Converse 84 00:05:03,180 --> 00:05:07,920 2530 40%. And it's like a $37 price point. And that just 85 00:05:07,920 --> 00:05:12,120 really helped to boost up the ARV. And we were able to spend 86 00:05:12,120 --> 00:05:16,590 more on the on the ad. So, you know, a lot of times, it's a lot 87 00:05:16,590 --> 00:05:21,840 of small stuff. I think that we get roped in, because we all buy 88 00:05:21,900 --> 00:05:24,750 everything, there's me I do I buy every new like Facebook ad 89 00:05:24,750 --> 00:05:28,620 course or this hack or that hack. And ultimately, when you 90 00:05:28,620 --> 00:05:32,910 come into like a real company, it's mainly the small things 91 00:05:32,910 --> 00:05:35,940 like that the upsells or down cells, the email, follow up the 92 00:05:35,940 --> 00:05:39,180 onboarding sequences, those are some of the things I'll give you 93 00:05:39,180 --> 00:05:46,530 an example to a company that we just bought, like, this week, 94 00:05:46,740 --> 00:05:55,170 and we were going through the funnel, and they have a 35% bump 95 00:05:55,170 --> 00:05:58,710 order. So a bump for those who don't know, is on the checkout 96 00:05:58,710 --> 00:06:02,430 page. It's like guess I want to add this, you know, thing for 97 00:06:02,670 --> 00:06:07,170 whatever price point, they have a 35% bump rate, which you would 98 00:06:07,170 --> 00:06:10,950 think that's incredible, right? That's very, very high. But the 99 00:06:10,950 --> 00:06:18,960 price point for that bump $3.99 for a full ebook, video course. 100 00:06:19,590 --> 00:06:24,090 And so I just rewrote the bump. And we're going to bring that 101 00:06:24,090 --> 00:06:28,920 price up to around probably 19 or so. And even if it drops to 102 00:06:28,950 --> 00:06:34,020 20%, I still a net positive. I don't I don't think it'll 103 00:06:34,020 --> 00:06:38,520 actually drop that much. Oh, again, very small, super simple. 104 00:06:38,520 --> 00:06:42,450 You've done the same thing, you know, and, but there's just 105 00:06:42,450 --> 00:06:45,750 people and the guy, he did this, he had this company for years, 106 00:06:46,050 --> 00:06:50,640 never touched it, you know, so, and again, let's say somehow he 107 00:06:50,640 --> 00:06:53,160 did test it, and we're just completely off and it's just 108 00:06:53,160 --> 00:06:56,160 gonna bomb. Right. And then wall, I'll put it back. You 109 00:06:56,160 --> 00:06:58,710 know, I mean, I guess this is not a real big thing, we would 110 00:06:58,710 --> 00:07:03,570 do a split test, but it's through a third party. So so we 111 00:07:03,570 --> 00:07:06,450 can't, it's kind of either on or off. So we're just going to turn 112 00:07:06,450 --> 00:07:10,530 off for three or four days, see it and add it all up. And then 113 00:07:10,530 --> 00:07:12,150 if it's good, man, we can scale more. 114 00:07:12,870 --> 00:07:14,580 Robert Plank: Well, that's exciting. And there's like, 115 00:07:14,610 --> 00:07:16,770 there's like five things that are swirling around in my head. 116 00:07:17,160 --> 00:07:20,940 From what what you said there. And one thing is that it's like, 117 00:07:20,940 --> 00:07:25,020 it's easy to just to only look at, you know, like the best 118 00:07:25,020 --> 00:07:27,960 things you will post on Facebook or just to look at, like the 119 00:07:27,960 --> 00:07:31,380 best things that are on a sales letter or just be on a webinar 120 00:07:31,380 --> 00:07:33,240 where they're showing you the greatest hits. And like 121 00:07:33,240 --> 00:07:37,470 sometimes it's more fun to check out someone's blog post or dive 122 00:07:37,470 --> 00:07:40,530 into like a long form podcast like you and I are here we're 123 00:07:40,650 --> 00:07:44,040 kind of just like talking about the case studies where it's sure 124 00:07:44,040 --> 00:07:47,340 it's leading to contact me or go to my site. But it's not like a 125 00:07:47,340 --> 00:07:50,970 directly heading to a sale. So sometimes we talk about the real 126 00:07:50,970 --> 00:07:54,000 stuff that if you were to say it on a sales letter or webinar, 127 00:07:54,090 --> 00:07:56,310 you might not want to tell a story like that, because you 128 00:07:56,310 --> 00:07:58,560 don't want to talk them out of buying, like right then and 129 00:07:58,560 --> 00:08:01,710 there. But I love the real stuff like that. And you're making me 130 00:08:01,710 --> 00:08:05,490 feel bad, but it's okay. Because I think that we're all guilty of 131 00:08:05,520 --> 00:08:09,000 setting something up setting up some order process like eight 132 00:08:09,000 --> 00:08:12,030 years ago, and then it just was set up that way. And we forgot 133 00:08:12,030 --> 00:08:15,330 about it like the $3.99 cent upsell, like why not do 134 00:08:15,330 --> 00:08:17,670 something bigger? And that's actually been on my mind the 135 00:08:17,670 --> 00:08:20,730 last couple of days is just like, Oh, yeah, I've got this 136 00:08:20,730 --> 00:08:23,730 offer. And I don't have a one time offer for this. And for 137 00:08:23,730 --> 00:08:26,100 this, I don't have a down. So for that I'm not retargeting 138 00:08:26,100 --> 00:08:28,920 that there's always more to do. And usually, from what you're 139 00:08:28,920 --> 00:08:31,230 saying here is, it's usually just like the marketing 140 00:08:31,230 --> 00:08:34,710 fundamentals. And, and What's also great about what you're 141 00:08:34,710 --> 00:08:37,890 mentioning here is you're not getting caught up in the 142 00:08:37,890 --> 00:08:41,070 technical details, right? You're saying, I'm not even if I can't 143 00:08:41,070 --> 00:08:44,610 split tests based on my platform, no big deal, I'll just 144 00:08:44,670 --> 00:08:48,060 switch it, and then check the data for those days. And if 145 00:08:48,060 --> 00:08:51,300 there's a huge change, and I don't like what the change is, I 146 00:08:51,300 --> 00:08:54,120 can always switch it back. And I mean, I love stuff like that, 147 00:08:54,120 --> 00:08:56,670 where, and I'm sure you've been in a situation where maybe 148 00:08:56,670 --> 00:08:59,520 you've asked one of your prospective business, here's 149 00:08:59,520 --> 00:09:02,730 here, like what's your, how many customers you get per day, 150 00:09:02,760 --> 00:09:05,070 what's your conversion rate, and people don't know. But it's 151 00:09:05,070 --> 00:09:07,980 like, even if you're not technically tracking it, you can 152 00:09:07,980 --> 00:09:10,500 always go back and look at the clicks, look at the sales and 153 00:09:10,500 --> 00:09:14,610 get again, I you know, eyeball it a ballpark figure. And you 154 00:09:14,610 --> 00:09:18,180 don't need to let the technology get in the way. So that's kind 155 00:09:18,180 --> 00:09:20,820 of some of the lessons that I'm getting from you today. And so 156 00:09:20,820 --> 00:09:22,740 one thing that you mentioned there Mike, which was really 157 00:09:22,740 --> 00:09:26,820 cool was you said that you thought of this, this upsell and 158 00:09:26,820 --> 00:09:29,100 the sweet and salty thing and then you jumped in and and just 159 00:09:29,100 --> 00:09:32,460 30 minutes you came up with an upsell page and and you know we 160 00:09:32,460 --> 00:09:35,820 know each other a little bit and we both like to get things done 161 00:09:35,820 --> 00:09:38,880 fast, right? We would like to just like keep it simple make up 162 00:09:38,910 --> 00:09:41,820 make a sales letter. And that's kind of where I think the magic 163 00:09:41,820 --> 00:09:44,640 happens. Why spend five months on sales that are going to do it 164 00:09:44,640 --> 00:09:48,900 in 30 minutes. So do you have any? I don't know magic secret 165 00:09:48,900 --> 00:09:52,020 sauce are things to share with us about getting the sales that 166 00:09:52,020 --> 00:09:54,030 are done really quick because it sounds exciting. 167 00:09:54,450 --> 00:09:58,320 Unknown: Yeah, fast food copywriting. Yeah. I actually 168 00:09:58,320 --> 00:10:02,400 that's the Old Republic. that you did, I think, and I actually 169 00:10:02,400 --> 00:10:05,160 did buy a lot of your early stuff when I when I was getting 170 00:10:05,160 --> 00:10:07,860 started, which is kind of cool. So I think it's kind of full 171 00:10:07,890 --> 00:10:12,420 circle. But yeah, you know, I think for me when it comes to, 172 00:10:12,750 --> 00:10:17,850 like the speed of getting things done, one of my hacks and again, 173 00:10:17,850 --> 00:10:20,220 this has been tough for me because it's not very sexy. But 174 00:10:20,220 --> 00:10:25,140 I, whenever I do research, and I, you know, I try to never 175 00:10:25,140 --> 00:10:29,640 write from scratch, I try to never write from a blank page 176 00:10:29,640 --> 00:10:33,510 where I actually create, you know, tons and tons of different 177 00:10:33,570 --> 00:10:37,500 templates. And whenever I find something, whether it's an a, an 178 00:10:37,530 --> 00:10:41,430 E book online, and a blog post, anything like, Oh, that's kind 179 00:10:41,430 --> 00:10:44,790 of cool, I'll actually copy it. And I'll put it into like my 180 00:10:44,790 --> 00:10:49,020 little back end software, and I tag it. So I will tag it with 181 00:10:49,020 --> 00:10:51,690 like, where I found it, what it might be for, if it's for a 182 00:10:51,690 --> 00:10:54,570 certain thing, and then when I whenever I have to write 183 00:10:54,600 --> 00:10:58,920 anything, I can just type in that keyword and see everything 184 00:10:58,920 --> 00:11:03,270 that that I that I ever found on that topic, and actually have a 185 00:11:03,270 --> 00:11:07,650 whole little system that I use for that. And it makes it like 186 00:11:07,650 --> 00:11:10,440 so much easier because like you ever just sit down and write 187 00:11:10,440 --> 00:11:13,020 what the freaking Am I gonna say now, you know, and then, so I 188 00:11:13,020 --> 00:11:17,430 can just punch in an idea or a keyword and then just read like 189 00:11:17,430 --> 00:11:20,970 20 things. And that's enough for my brand new Oh, yeah, that was 190 00:11:20,970 --> 00:11:23,940 just thing. And then there's that thing. And that's also why 191 00:11:24,090 --> 00:11:28,560 I think it does pay off to kind of stick to an industry if you 192 00:11:28,560 --> 00:11:32,130 can, because one of the biggest in like toughest challenges is 193 00:11:32,130 --> 00:11:35,700 figuring out who you're talking to, and what their problems are 194 00:11:35,700 --> 00:11:37,590 and what they truly want, not what they say they want, but 195 00:11:37,590 --> 00:11:40,560 what they truly want. If you kind of know those three things, 196 00:11:40,860 --> 00:11:43,560 the rest of it is just kind of filling those things in right, 197 00:11:43,590 --> 00:11:46,020 the here's how what I have is going to give you what you want. 198 00:11:46,470 --> 00:11:50,670 And so that so that's a big thing for me. So I try to not do 199 00:11:50,670 --> 00:11:52,410 everything, you know, I've tried to because you know, there's 200 00:11:52,410 --> 00:11:54,960 stuff that like if you brought me in and said, Hey, I want you 201 00:11:54,960 --> 00:11:58,380 to help me sell cabinets. I mean, I want to start just like 202 00:11:58,860 --> 00:12:01,350 anyone like, Well, why do people want them, you know, and I have 203 00:12:01,350 --> 00:12:05,640 to go all the way back. But if it's like in a business, 204 00:12:05,850 --> 00:12:09,120 Facebook ads, weight loss, those things are things that I've been 205 00:12:09,120 --> 00:12:14,160 around, so I can jump in on those, I myself used to weigh 206 00:12:14,190 --> 00:12:20,250 over 500 pounds. So I know what that's like. So I've been down 207 00:12:20,250 --> 00:12:21,840 that route. 208 00:12:22,890 --> 00:12:25,380 Robert Plank: And, and so and so there's Yeah, there's some good 209 00:12:25,380 --> 00:12:28,410 stuff in there that I like having a swipe file, that way 210 00:12:28,410 --> 00:12:31,620 you're not stuck in just with the blank page. And and that's, 211 00:12:31,650 --> 00:12:34,230 again, you're reminding me of all these good habits, I used to 212 00:12:34,230 --> 00:12:36,900 have that, like they haven't completely fallen off the 213 00:12:36,900 --> 00:12:40,830 wayside. But I used to add to a swipe file on my phone like a 214 00:12:40,830 --> 00:12:43,230 couple of times a week. And these days, it's more like a 215 00:12:43,230 --> 00:12:46,200 couple of times a month. And I remember like I used to pile 216 00:12:46,200 --> 00:12:50,580 things on and every anytime I saw like a cool email subject 217 00:12:50,580 --> 00:12:53,520 line, or like a phrase on a webinar that someone even, like 218 00:12:53,550 --> 00:12:57,000 you can tell, they didn't realize how how powerful just 219 00:12:57,000 --> 00:13:00,060 that one sentence was but it like drew me in and things like 220 00:13:00,060 --> 00:13:03,000 in person or like if I saw stage speaker, just little things that 221 00:13:03,090 --> 00:13:06,120 excited me I'd add that to the swipe file. And then if I 222 00:13:06,120 --> 00:13:10,950 noticed that this the same phrase or whatever went on us 223 00:13:10,950 --> 00:13:14,010 eventually I delete it, but then you're so right. It's just like 224 00:13:14,010 --> 00:13:17,640 having that that library of those ideas. And that's 225 00:13:17,640 --> 00:13:20,850 interesting to have like sticking to a niche or a handful 226 00:13:20,850 --> 00:13:23,850 of niches that way. You don't have to start from scratch with 227 00:13:23,850 --> 00:13:26,670 the psychology because like you mentioned there's there's kind 228 00:13:26,670 --> 00:13:28,770 of like there's like two ends of the spectrum with the 229 00:13:28,770 --> 00:13:31,590 copywriting right. There's like the there's like the tidbits 230 00:13:31,590 --> 00:13:35,850 there's like the the tactics, the headlines, the all the magic 231 00:13:35,850 --> 00:13:38,250 gimmicks, which that's important to get attention. But then 232 00:13:38,250 --> 00:13:41,910 there's also like the foundation of going back and understanding 233 00:13:41,910 --> 00:13:45,570 like the psychology of you know, someone who wants a weight loss 234 00:13:45,570 --> 00:13:48,870 program or what are they thinking? And it's it's pretty 235 00:13:48,870 --> 00:13:50,940 cool to think about because it's like if you have both sides of 236 00:13:50,940 --> 00:13:53,940 that, you pretty much got it made and you're reminding me 237 00:13:53,940 --> 00:13:56,700 that like sure we're both in like Facebook groups for 238 00:13:56,700 --> 00:14:00,330 copywriters, and I saw someone a few months ago who was like 239 00:14:00,330 --> 00:14:03,060 trying out some coffee. And he said like, well, he was like 240 00:14:03,060 --> 00:14:05,610 from some keto weight loss thing. So right up your alley, 241 00:14:05,610 --> 00:14:09,180 but it was like, it was like some girl was at at the front 242 00:14:09,180 --> 00:14:12,780 door. And she was like saying, I tried this and this, this weight 243 00:14:12,780 --> 00:14:16,320 loss. And people jumped in the comments saying like, well, this 244 00:14:16,320 --> 00:14:19,140 is a nice story that you're saying. But it doesn't sound 245 00:14:19,140 --> 00:14:22,470 like a woman is saying these words like you have these these 246 00:14:22,470 --> 00:14:25,740 characters in the story. And you're getting us to visualize 247 00:14:25,740 --> 00:14:29,610 what's happening. But it's just that it's a man saying the words 248 00:14:29,610 --> 00:14:32,820 but then in your your woman character is is actually the one 249 00:14:32,820 --> 00:14:36,180 saying it. And so it's like, it's just it's cool to think 250 00:14:36,180 --> 00:14:38,850 about just all these like little tweaks and all these pieces how 251 00:14:38,850 --> 00:14:42,360 they come together. And then then the magic happens. And so, 252 00:14:42,690 --> 00:14:45,450 so there's already so much to talk about. And I know that you 253 00:14:45,450 --> 00:14:50,100 have a belief that motivation is a myth and goals don't work. And 254 00:14:50,100 --> 00:14:52,770 I think that hearing about this can be very helpful. So what do 255 00:14:52,770 --> 00:14:56,190 you have to say to us about being motivated and having 256 00:14:56,190 --> 00:14:56,790 goals? 257 00:14:56,909 --> 00:14:59,039 Unknown: Yeah, sure. So first, I'll say one quick thing, just a 258 00:14:59,039 --> 00:15:02,099 quote that I came up with With that, for people that write, 259 00:15:02,129 --> 00:15:09,539 copy, and that is a good copywriter knows the rules. A 260 00:15:09,539 --> 00:15:14,489 great copy writer knows the prospect. And, you know, that's 261 00:15:14,489 --> 00:15:17,309 just goes to show you that if you know who you're speaking to, 262 00:15:17,459 --> 00:15:20,759 you can get away with all the sins, you know, you're, you have 263 00:15:20,759 --> 00:15:22,979 a crappy everything. But if you're talking to the right 264 00:15:22,979 --> 00:15:25,379 person and you're saying the right things, you can do 265 00:15:25,379 --> 00:15:28,709 anything, the best copy ever isn't gonna do anything if it's 266 00:15:28,709 --> 00:15:32,639 not speaking to the right prospect. Anyway, so I thought I 267 00:15:32,819 --> 00:15:35,489 could throw that out there. But that's Yeah, so that's actually 268 00:15:35,489 --> 00:15:38,579 something that I've the whole motivation thing is something 269 00:15:38,579 --> 00:15:40,589 that I've dealt with for quite some time, because I've had a 270 00:15:40,589 --> 00:15:42,599 lot of people come to me and say, how have you done the 271 00:15:42,599 --> 00:15:44,609 things that you've done? So I have done some pretty cool 272 00:15:44,609 --> 00:15:47,099 stuff. I don't say to brag is like had to work for it hard, 273 00:15:47,099 --> 00:15:51,539 hard, hard, but I've been able to do well in my business life, 274 00:15:51,899 --> 00:15:55,259 weight loss, all these things and, and people would always say 275 00:15:55,259 --> 00:15:58,559 to me, if I ever like spoke at any event, so I can never do 276 00:15:58,559 --> 00:16:01,349 what you did. I just don't know how you do it. You know, this is 277 00:16:01,349 --> 00:16:04,649 like, you know, common thing. I think that many of us have this 278 00:16:04,649 --> 00:16:09,569 idea that that the people that are successful are like getting 279 00:16:09,569 --> 00:16:13,619 up every day at 4am going for a jog coming back with their green 280 00:16:13,619 --> 00:16:16,229 smoothie. I mean, like we grew, we create this sort of like 281 00:16:16,229 --> 00:16:20,639 perfection concept. But the truth is, success comes not 282 00:16:20,639 --> 00:16:24,719 because you are better than anyone else, or you're doing it, 283 00:16:24,749 --> 00:16:27,689 it's just that you're consistent. And you don't rely 284 00:16:27,689 --> 00:16:32,009 on motivation to get you there. See motivation is truly just an 285 00:16:32,009 --> 00:16:36,419 emotional feeling. All it is, is isn't is an opt out on the way 286 00:16:36,419 --> 00:16:39,269 to, you know, doing what you're supposed to, you're basically 287 00:16:39,269 --> 00:16:42,419 saying, Do I should I do this thing yesterday? Oh, yes. Do I 288 00:16:42,419 --> 00:16:47,849 feel like it? Okay, am I motivated? No, then opt out. So 289 00:16:47,849 --> 00:16:51,329 truthfully, it's just adding a step in sort of the decision 290 00:16:51,329 --> 00:16:54,479 tree. So if you get rid of that step, and say, doesn't really 291 00:16:54,719 --> 00:16:57,719 matter if I feel like it, or if I don't, I'm just gonna do that 292 00:16:57,719 --> 00:17:02,909 thing. And so that's why I talk about motivation being a myth. 293 00:17:02,909 --> 00:17:05,759 And then the the other piece with goals, and this is a big 294 00:17:05,759 --> 00:17:08,789 one. And I haven't heard anyone really talk about this, per se, 295 00:17:08,789 --> 00:17:11,459 but it's, it's almost like common sense. I don't know if 296 00:17:11,459 --> 00:17:15,659 it's really that profound. But the idea for me is that I've 297 00:17:15,659 --> 00:17:19,739 never really believed in goals I do when I was younger. But to 298 00:17:19,739 --> 00:17:23,279 me, a goal back then was like, I would write it down. And I would 299 00:17:23,279 --> 00:17:26,969 like say it to myself, every day, I will lose weight, I will 300 00:17:26,969 --> 00:17:30,089 be fit, happy. And I would say all this stuff. But I started to 301 00:17:30,089 --> 00:17:34,769 realize that truthfully, all a goal truly is, is a headline 302 00:17:34,859 --> 00:17:38,759 with a deadline. And truthfully, a goal should just be the 303 00:17:38,759 --> 00:17:45,209 headline of a to do list. So the big, the big, big, you know, I 304 00:17:45,209 --> 00:17:49,739 guess mental change for me was was when I converted goals into 305 00:17:49,739 --> 00:17:54,029 projects. We think about it, if you create a project, you don't 306 00:17:54,059 --> 00:17:56,729 just go I'm going to write a sales page and you get up every 307 00:17:56,729 --> 00:17:58,919 day, I'm going to write a sales page, right you would do is 308 00:17:58,949 --> 00:18:01,649 dumb. But you would say I'm going to write a sales page, 309 00:18:01,649 --> 00:18:06,269 which means I'm going to do A, B, C, D, E, F, G. And if you're 310 00:18:06,269 --> 00:18:09,449 building out an actual project, you would also say, if I need 311 00:18:09,449 --> 00:18:11,549 help, I'm going to go to this person. And if I if I get stuck, 312 00:18:11,549 --> 00:18:13,859 I'm going to do this, if this doesn't come through, I'm going 313 00:18:13,859 --> 00:18:16,859 to do that. So you create contingencies to make that 314 00:18:16,859 --> 00:18:21,089 project a reality. And you make sure to focus on it, the odds of 315 00:18:21,089 --> 00:18:24,059 you completing a project are way higher than you achieving a 316 00:18:24,479 --> 00:18:30,329 goal. And so all I want people to do is to is to convert goals 317 00:18:30,359 --> 00:18:33,929 into projects, no matter what it is. And if you do that, it 318 00:18:33,929 --> 00:18:37,199 becomes more and more of a reality. And then to kind of 319 00:18:37,199 --> 00:18:41,669 talk about holding off, there's an entire, like educational 320 00:18:41,699 --> 00:18:46,049 instructional background on how to how to achieve projects. You 321 00:18:46,049 --> 00:18:51,059 know, there's a whole school of thought on like, agile, lean all 322 00:18:51,059 --> 00:18:54,419 these different ways. And if you can apply those same things to 323 00:18:54,419 --> 00:18:57,149 gold structuring. And that's pretty awesome, because they've 324 00:18:57,149 --> 00:19:00,959 already figured out all the things that can go wrong with 325 00:19:00,989 --> 00:19:04,979 projects. So you don't have to start from scratch, just, you 326 00:19:04,979 --> 00:19:08,189 know. So that's it, you know, that's my big aha. 327 00:19:08,850 --> 00:19:11,340 Robert Plank: And both of those ideas, I mean, those are simple, 328 00:19:11,340 --> 00:19:14,400 but huge ideas. And I think that they're things that maybe people 329 00:19:14,400 --> 00:19:16,890 have, have heard of, or heard parts of, and then just 330 00:19:16,890 --> 00:19:19,650 immediately written it off, but like it's, it's worth repeating. 331 00:19:19,650 --> 00:19:23,190 It's so huge, and it's easy to forget about just but point 332 00:19:23,190 --> 00:19:26,880 number one, that you can't rely on motivation and a lot of the 333 00:19:26,880 --> 00:19:29,250 way that you put that Mike that it's like, well, there's a thing 334 00:19:29,250 --> 00:19:33,420 that you should do, you decided to do you need to do in order to 335 00:19:33,450 --> 00:19:37,380 keep your business going. But then you add this other barrier 336 00:19:37,380 --> 00:19:39,990 in front of it saying like, well, also I need to be in a 337 00:19:39,990 --> 00:19:42,600 good emotional state to do it. It's like why would you do that 338 00:19:42,600 --> 00:19:45,000 to yourself, you've ticked all these other boxes, but you're 339 00:19:45,000 --> 00:19:47,910 saying Oh, but just this one little tiny thing is the reason 340 00:19:47,910 --> 00:19:51,060 why I'm not going I don't feel like doing it today. And I mean, 341 00:19:51,060 --> 00:19:53,610 even as you were swinging that like there's been so many times 342 00:19:53,610 --> 00:19:57,540 when I mean you and I both we haven't felt like going to this 343 00:19:57,540 --> 00:20:00,660 appointment or making this webpage but It's like, Well, 344 00:20:00,750 --> 00:20:03,660 what about after you do it now we'll be able to do these other 345 00:20:03,660 --> 00:20:05,760 things where you get this money that you can do other stuff 346 00:20:05,760 --> 00:20:08,550 with. And so yeah, the way that you put it, it sounds ridiculous 347 00:20:08,550 --> 00:20:12,000 to say, Well, let me also be in like, the happiest mood I've 348 00:20:12,000 --> 00:20:15,420 ever been in, in order to do this, like, Why just do it? And 349 00:20:15,420 --> 00:20:18,990 then even if it takes half an hour or an hour, it'll be done. 350 00:20:18,990 --> 00:20:21,780 And then you'll feel good that you did it. And then also, yeah, 351 00:20:21,780 --> 00:20:25,500 like not having the the vague goal is what I'm hearing is that 352 00:20:25,830 --> 00:20:29,610 all these kind of projects methodologies came about from 353 00:20:29,730 --> 00:20:32,580 computer programming, because that there's like so many moving 354 00:20:32,580 --> 00:20:34,380 parts, there's so many things that need to be done. And 355 00:20:34,740 --> 00:20:38,130 there's a huge likelihood of failure if there isn't an exact 356 00:20:38,130 --> 00:20:41,520 plan. And so they just apply that to your, you know, your 357 00:20:41,520 --> 00:20:45,600 regular everyday task. And I mean, so, so simple and so 358 00:20:45,600 --> 00:20:50,190 powerful to, to do that. And, and yeah, it seems like when 359 00:20:50,190 --> 00:20:53,160 people like they set goals, and it's vague, and it's a thing 360 00:20:53,160 --> 00:20:55,800 where like, they they know, they don't deep down, they won't even 361 00:20:55,800 --> 00:20:59,130 started or finish it. So I like your your thought process here 362 00:20:59,190 --> 00:21:02,190 of making the whole project, build it out, know what the 363 00:21:02,190 --> 00:21:05,700 pieces are, know that you have to do this first. And then that 364 00:21:05,700 --> 00:21:09,030 leads to that. There's like sub deadlines, just people that are 365 00:21:09,030 --> 00:21:11,910 involved to help you out. If you fail, I mean, makes perfect 366 00:21:11,910 --> 00:21:15,120 sense to just be more organized and think more things through. 367 00:21:15,120 --> 00:21:18,330 So this is all great stuff that bears listening to again and 368 00:21:18,330 --> 00:21:22,380 again. And I want to make sure that as we are kind of starting 369 00:21:22,380 --> 00:21:25,320 to ramp down our conversation that we talk about, like 370 00:21:25,320 --> 00:21:27,960 copywriting in the modern day and age because like you said, 371 00:21:27,960 --> 00:21:31,950 Mike, you and I have been around for decades. And sometimes it's 372 00:21:31,950 --> 00:21:32,190 even 373 00:21:32,370 --> 00:21:34,980 Unknown: worse now. Right in the internet age. 374 00:21:35,340 --> 00:21:37,680 Robert Plank: Yeah, yeah. Now we're dinosaurs. Now there's 375 00:21:37,680 --> 00:21:40,860 like whole generations that came after us. But back in the good 376 00:21:40,860 --> 00:21:44,430 old days of, you know, coding HTML by hand and, and pushing 377 00:21:44,430 --> 00:21:47,760 the card up the hill both ways. There was like the long form 378 00:21:47,760 --> 00:21:50,850 sales letter, right. And I'm sure they're still around, and 379 00:21:50,850 --> 00:21:54,210 it's still fun. But you see so much of this weird, like 380 00:21:54,210 --> 00:21:58,200 blending it with content or adding a navigation, it seems 381 00:21:58,200 --> 00:22:01,800 like such a such a tug of war, right between I just want to do 382 00:22:01,800 --> 00:22:05,310 the direct sales versus the Google gods and everyone else 383 00:22:05,310 --> 00:22:07,410 wants us to add more information. So what are your 384 00:22:07,410 --> 00:22:11,070 thoughts about copywriting in this modern day and age of 385 00:22:11,250 --> 00:22:14,310 multiple pages? WordPress sites? Like what do you have to say 386 00:22:14,310 --> 00:22:17,730 about adapting copywriting to the modern day and age? 387 00:22:18,120 --> 00:22:22,470 Unknown: Yeah, so I still, we still, we still use a lot of 388 00:22:22,500 --> 00:22:27,240 longer form stuff, mainly VSL type structures. But what I 389 00:22:27,240 --> 00:22:31,980 began to see and kind of in doing more of, and I wish I 390 00:22:31,980 --> 00:22:34,740 could like draw, because I can show this, but picture like the 391 00:22:34,740 --> 00:22:39,210 long form sales page, break it up into chunks, and then turn it 392 00:22:39,240 --> 00:22:44,280 sideways. So one long sales page may become six pages. So I think 393 00:22:44,280 --> 00:22:47,700 the idea is, how do we take the same principles and what we're 394 00:22:47,700 --> 00:22:51,720 going after, and turn that into multiple contact points. So we 395 00:22:51,720 --> 00:22:55,290 do that some with like, video training. So we're about to roll 396 00:22:55,290 --> 00:22:58,920 out a back end program for like that will sell keto coaching to 397 00:22:58,920 --> 00:23:03,240 these people that are buying a keto software to, you know, get 398 00:23:03,240 --> 00:23:07,440 them help to build out their food plan. And so I thought 399 00:23:07,440 --> 00:23:10,350 about what are the things that these people need to understand 400 00:23:10,350 --> 00:23:15,300 in order to be able to want to get to pay someone to coach 401 00:23:15,300 --> 00:23:19,950 them, instead of doing this long, like hour long webinar or 402 00:23:19,950 --> 00:23:23,700 pitch or sales page, I'm creating sort of like content 403 00:23:23,700 --> 00:23:28,260 based individual pieces. So a sales rep can say, hey, go watch 404 00:23:28,260 --> 00:23:31,620 this, and call me back, go watch this and call me back go out 405 00:23:31,620 --> 00:23:35,610 says so. And that can take place over time. So I think the trade 406 00:23:35,610 --> 00:23:39,810 off is the direct sales page, kind of like, you know, go out 407 00:23:39,810 --> 00:23:45,240 and hard, that is going to only get you one or 2% of people that 408 00:23:45,240 --> 00:23:49,800 are like, you know, very, very in it right? then and there. I 409 00:23:49,800 --> 00:23:53,700 think by turning the sales page sideways, breaking it up, you 410 00:23:53,700 --> 00:23:57,330 can then have people take those stops, and say, you know, here's 411 00:23:57,330 --> 00:23:59,910 like your intro and kind of like that hook. And then here's, 412 00:23:59,910 --> 00:24:02,400 like, you know, belief one that you that you want them to 413 00:24:02,400 --> 00:24:05,370 believe, believe to believe three. And then when you get to 414 00:24:05,370 --> 00:24:08,970 the to the sales page, or like the ending, you can say, look, 415 00:24:08,970 --> 00:24:12,840 so now you know that that you need a, you need B you need C 416 00:24:13,170 --> 00:24:15,690 and don't worry, we've done all that for you. It's here and this 417 00:24:15,690 --> 00:24:18,690 is in the core. So that's kind of what we've done is kind of 418 00:24:18,870 --> 00:24:22,800 use content. If you actually look at some of the best sales 419 00:24:23,100 --> 00:24:27,390 pages are content to you. I mean, there's always a portion 420 00:24:27,480 --> 00:24:31,230 that is teaching or instructing. So and that's what people want. 421 00:24:31,380 --> 00:24:35,490 But But people don't like is the you know, discover this 10 422 00:24:35,520 --> 00:24:38,580 secrets right? And you know that that stuff. So if you can kind 423 00:24:38,580 --> 00:24:41,760 of, you know, work that in but doing it in a way that's not 424 00:24:41,880 --> 00:24:47,310 quite so hard. I do think as we continue to age up, we will see 425 00:24:47,520 --> 00:24:51,780 like the Gen Z kids who are coming up now are they're highly 426 00:24:51,780 --> 00:24:54,660 skeptical. And they've been they've been there so I do think 427 00:24:54,660 --> 00:24:57,060 that there will have to be changes to the way things are 428 00:24:57,060 --> 00:25:00,420 done. But one thing I can for sure say is that humans don't 429 00:25:00,420 --> 00:25:04,230 really change your core desires. So I think that's, that's going 430 00:25:04,230 --> 00:25:07,530 to also stay the same. There may be some tweaks to how we speak 431 00:25:07,530 --> 00:25:12,390 to them. Like it's obvious, the sort of like baby boomer like 432 00:25:12,420 --> 00:25:16,290 angles don't do as well now as they did, because back in the 433 00:25:16,290 --> 00:25:19,230 day, it was all very much like fear based stuff, you know, in 434 00:25:19,320 --> 00:25:22,230 the coming crashes, it was everything was around there, 435 00:25:22,350 --> 00:25:24,690 those things can still do okay, but they're just not as like 436 00:25:24,690 --> 00:25:28,710 strong as they were. Because that generation had a belief 437 00:25:28,710 --> 00:25:32,400 system that the next one doesn't have. That's where people 438 00:25:32,490 --> 00:25:36,390 forget. And I think that if you mistake what worked for what 439 00:25:36,390 --> 00:25:39,210 always will work that's we have to watch out. 440 00:25:40,050 --> 00:25:41,670 Robert Plank: Yeah, that's interesting to think about it. 441 00:25:41,670 --> 00:25:44,040 Like it's almost like there's like the the fads and the 442 00:25:44,040 --> 00:25:46,890 trends. And then you're making me think about like, there Yeah, 443 00:25:46,890 --> 00:25:49,590 there's like, this age group that's fear based and this age 444 00:25:49,590 --> 00:25:52,110 group, that's not and then there's this age group that 445 00:25:52,110 --> 00:25:55,620 maybe had a longer attention span, and the new one doesn't, 446 00:25:55,650 --> 00:25:58,080 but like you said, like, the human psychology is always the 447 00:25:58,080 --> 00:26:01,320 same. And, and yeah, and you're making me think back to about 448 00:26:01,320 --> 00:26:04,440 these, these long form sales, there's that had good content 449 00:26:04,500 --> 00:26:06,870 kind of mixed in there. And maybe it's like, some of those 450 00:26:06,870 --> 00:26:10,410 things can be pulled out, and can be like mini videos, or 451 00:26:10,410 --> 00:26:13,470 like, you know, blog posts or things like that. And I mean, it 452 00:26:13,470 --> 00:26:16,500 seems like you just see more of that these days, that that many 453 00:26:16,500 --> 00:26:20,160 people come with specific problems. Whereas maybe before 454 00:26:20,160 --> 00:26:22,200 it was like, well, I want to lose weight. And I don't know 455 00:26:22,200 --> 00:26:24,960 much about it, like, they're kind of super far back on the 456 00:26:24,960 --> 00:26:28,320 stages of awareness. But now they're like, I've heard of 457 00:26:28,320 --> 00:26:31,320 keto. And I've heard of intermittent fasting. And I've 458 00:26:31,320 --> 00:26:35,070 heard of like this blood sugar test thing. And like so many 459 00:26:35,070 --> 00:26:37,830 times, they come with like a really specific, like long tail 460 00:26:37,830 --> 00:26:40,650 kind of thing. And so that's, that's cool to think about that. 461 00:26:40,740 --> 00:26:43,980 If you're in like, it's kind of like more customized these days. 462 00:26:43,980 --> 00:26:47,850 And if you have those sales videos, materials at the ready, 463 00:26:47,970 --> 00:26:50,340 then if someone's close to buying the salesperson, you just 464 00:26:50,340 --> 00:26:54,660 send them over to that which is, again, a blending of the old 465 00:26:54,660 --> 00:26:57,180 school and a new school, right? It's not, there's not not that 466 00:26:57,180 --> 00:26:59,640 much technology involved. Maybe like, I don't know maybe 467 00:26:59,640 --> 00:27:02,790 retargeting or something. But the whole idea of making a small 468 00:27:02,790 --> 00:27:06,030 piece of content, putting it on a web page, having it as part of 469 00:27:06,030 --> 00:27:08,520 your sequence, I mean, that's a that's an idea as old as 470 00:27:08,520 --> 00:27:11,040 marketing. So it's, it's kind of trippy, a little bit to think 471 00:27:11,040 --> 00:27:14,730 about, there's like the blend of the old and the new still 472 00:27:14,730 --> 00:27:18,870 happening. And that the the technology itself is not going 473 00:27:18,870 --> 00:27:22,410 to save us like even going back to the split testing example, 474 00:27:22,410 --> 00:27:25,950 they're like, sometimes just have to make a change and see 475 00:27:25,980 --> 00:27:30,060 what happens. And so with all of your copywriting experience with 476 00:27:30,060 --> 00:27:33,840 all of the ups and downs you've had over the last, who knows how 477 00:27:33,840 --> 00:27:37,350 many decades is do you have like one big piece of advice, you 478 00:27:37,350 --> 00:27:40,830 have something that you think that kids these days are really 479 00:27:40,830 --> 00:27:43,290 missing out on that they should be enlightened about 480 00:27:43,920 --> 00:27:46,920 Unknown: in the copy world, or just generally speaking? 481 00:27:47,820 --> 00:27:49,860 Robert Plank: Either one, but whatever comes into your brain, 482 00:27:49,860 --> 00:27:51,480 if it's copywriting, or general? 483 00:27:51,629 --> 00:27:56,339 Unknown: Yeah, no, I do think I think the younger people, I do 484 00:27:56,339 --> 00:28:00,779 think that, especially Okay, I'll start here, I do believe 485 00:28:00,779 --> 00:28:05,309 that many people that write copy, could be doing a lot more. 486 00:28:05,789 --> 00:28:08,909 And I don't want to stop them. Because obviously, it's good for 487 00:28:08,909 --> 00:28:11,849 me, because I can say, Hey, I'll pay you five grand, you know, 488 00:28:11,849 --> 00:28:15,359 and they're pumped. But I think that people that write copy can 489 00:28:15,359 --> 00:28:18,719 do a lot more than that. So they could go find people and create 490 00:28:18,929 --> 00:28:22,859 partnerships, the ability to write, copy and sell stuff is 491 00:28:22,859 --> 00:28:28,679 way more rare than being a keto expert, or a business expert, or 492 00:28:28,679 --> 00:28:32,849 whatever. I mean, it's just the world runs by people that know 493 00:28:32,849 --> 00:28:36,839 how to sell stuff, just the way it is. So for every expert for 494 00:28:36,839 --> 00:28:40,019 every probably 1000 experts, there's one person who who knows 495 00:28:40,019 --> 00:28:44,429 how to take that person, package them up and sell them in a way I 496 00:28:44,429 --> 00:28:48,179 mean, and so I would say if you're younger, be thinking 497 00:28:48,179 --> 00:28:52,319 about that, get get your skill set, get paid for it, but don't 498 00:28:52,319 --> 00:28:55,139 be afraid, at some point to go out on your own and try 499 00:28:55,139 --> 00:28:58,049 something and I've seen a lot of people that just don't, now I 500 00:28:58,049 --> 00:29:00,629 get it, some people just like to write, that's all they want to 501 00:29:00,629 --> 00:29:03,989 do. I like to write but not that much. You know, I'm not like the 502 00:29:03,989 --> 00:29:05,939 guy that's gonna be in his house all day, every day, just you 503 00:29:05,939 --> 00:29:08,669 know, trying to, you know, type it up. And there are some other 504 00:29:08,669 --> 00:29:11,879 skill sets that you have to pick up. But, but I think when you 505 00:29:11,879 --> 00:29:15,509 write copy, you ended up kind of, at least for me, when I got 506 00:29:15,539 --> 00:29:18,899 my start, I had to touch everything. It was like, Hey, 507 00:29:18,899 --> 00:29:21,089 I'm gonna go figure out how to fix this. Because the site 508 00:29:21,089 --> 00:29:23,129 broke, hey, I'm going to have to go figure out why the sales guy 509 00:29:23,129 --> 00:29:26,309 can't sell I'm going to fix the script. Support says there are 510 00:29:26,309 --> 00:29:28,769 refunds, right? Let's go see why, you know, it's like you get 511 00:29:28,769 --> 00:29:32,309 pulled in to everything. And that's kind of so I think if 512 00:29:32,309 --> 00:29:36,059 you're open to that, I mean, I think you should go down that 513 00:29:36,929 --> 00:29:40,049 what you know that a route for sure. 514 00:29:40,800 --> 00:29:42,630 Robert Plank: And that's interesting to think about that 515 00:29:42,630 --> 00:29:45,660 that so there's there's number one, there's the issue of the 516 00:29:45,660 --> 00:29:49,680 The world needs, like more sales people and there's so many like 517 00:29:49,680 --> 00:29:52,260 experts who are stuck in obscurity. And you hear a lot 518 00:29:52,260 --> 00:29:54,750 about that even from like, you know, people teaching content 519 00:29:54,750 --> 00:29:57,420 marketing, they talk about like 8020 and they're saying like, 520 00:29:57,510 --> 00:30:01,020 you know, the tendency is to spend 80 percent of your time 521 00:30:01,140 --> 00:30:04,650 making your product good or writing your book and making it 522 00:30:04,650 --> 00:30:07,620 really good. And then people are stuck only spending 20% of their 523 00:30:07,620 --> 00:30:10,650 time marketing themselves. And they say, well, you should flip 524 00:30:10,650 --> 00:30:14,520 it, you should spend 20% of your time on your product and your 525 00:30:14,520 --> 00:30:17,280 back end and your offer whatever. But then 80% of the 526 00:30:17,280 --> 00:30:19,620 time just getting the word out there because it that's the most 527 00:30:19,620 --> 00:30:23,910 slow going part. And so that's interesting to think about. And 528 00:30:23,910 --> 00:30:27,870 then like you said, don't be afraid of being curious and jump 529 00:30:27,870 --> 00:30:31,740 in where things need jumping in, because it's, it's easy to see, 530 00:30:31,740 --> 00:30:34,620 like an error message on a website and say, Oh, this is 531 00:30:34,650 --> 00:30:37,230 this is spam. I just want to close that insightful, you know, 532 00:30:37,230 --> 00:30:40,530 sometimes it's a little bit of a hassle to fix this or that 533 00:30:40,530 --> 00:30:42,990 website issue. But like, sometimes you have to, 534 00:30:43,110 --> 00:30:46,320 especially early on, especially if you can't hire this person 535 00:30:46,320 --> 00:30:48,540 for this and that person for that sometimes you have to get 536 00:30:48,540 --> 00:30:51,780 your hands up a little bit dirty just to get the job done. So 537 00:30:51,780 --> 00:30:55,110 this is, but you know what, that's kind of the fun of it, 538 00:30:55,110 --> 00:30:58,080 right? That's kind of like the scrappiness and the just problem 539 00:30:58,080 --> 00:31:01,350 solving and like the entrepreneurship of it. And so, 540 00:31:01,530 --> 00:31:03,390 yeah, there's lots of cool things to think about here. 541 00:31:03,720 --> 00:31:07,620 Unknown: Yeah, as I say, I just in the last like six months, 542 00:31:07,680 --> 00:31:12,990 I've really doubled down on, I figured out and took a bunch of 543 00:31:12,990 --> 00:31:16,800 training on Google Tag Manager, I had always had other people do 544 00:31:16,800 --> 00:31:19,590 that for me. And I was like, You know what, let me get in there. 545 00:31:19,590 --> 00:31:22,920 And now that I now that I have, I'm like, Wow, this is amazing. 546 00:31:23,130 --> 00:31:26,520 Same with Google Sheets, I've now started to build out all my 547 00:31:26,520 --> 00:31:30,150 own sheets actually built my first like, program, you know, 548 00:31:30,150 --> 00:31:36,030 and I use that for my database. And those are things that I 549 00:31:36,030 --> 00:31:39,000 think like a lot of people I don't know, like, for me, I was 550 00:31:39,000 --> 00:31:43,440 always like, Who cares? But now also for me, for me, it's fun, 551 00:31:43,470 --> 00:31:46,590 it's just fun to learn something else, you know, and so I, I kind 552 00:31:46,590 --> 00:31:50,850 of joke that I'm an internet marketer. And now I'm focusing 553 00:31:50,850 --> 00:31:54,600 more on the internet side of that, you know, so as I played 554 00:31:54,600 --> 00:31:58,470 the first, you know, 15 years old sales and you know, that 555 00:31:58,470 --> 00:32:02,430 side, so, but yeah, I think if you can broaden your skill set, 556 00:32:02,460 --> 00:32:07,440 it's, you know, like, there's a great saying where, I think I 557 00:32:07,440 --> 00:32:13,320 think it was Scott Adams, he has a book about how to Karen was 558 00:32:13,320 --> 00:32:16,470 called, but it's, you know, I think it's like how to fail. But 559 00:32:16,470 --> 00:32:20,250 still in big in. Anyway, he talks about how like, he is 560 00:32:20,250 --> 00:32:25,890 Scott Adams is the guy that that created the Dilbert stuff. So he 561 00:32:25,890 --> 00:32:29,400 basically said, like, I wasn't the best guy to draw, I wasn't 562 00:32:29,400 --> 00:32:33,240 the best guy at comedy. I wasn't the best guy with an MBA. But I 563 00:32:33,240 --> 00:32:36,240 was the best at those three, you know, I was the I was the guy 564 00:32:36,240 --> 00:32:39,900 that had all three of those, I could draw, okay, I had an MBA, 565 00:32:39,900 --> 00:32:45,690 and I could, and I could write, you know, okay, so then he, he 566 00:32:45,690 --> 00:32:49,680 became this ultimate expert, so many people, if you're 567 00:32:49,680 --> 00:32:53,160 struggling, it's like, try to have two or three skills that 568 00:32:53,160 --> 00:32:58,050 you stack. And suddenly, then you're like, the guy or gal with 569 00:32:58,050 --> 00:32:59,370 that skill set, you 570 00:32:59,370 --> 00:33:02,040 Robert Plank: know? Yeah, that's really powerful that that 571 00:33:02,040 --> 00:33:04,950 there's, there's always the talk of creating your own category 572 00:33:04,950 --> 00:33:07,650 and things like that. But but but then yeah, like when you 573 00:33:07,650 --> 00:33:11,040 have these, these kind of skills that a lot of people don't have 574 00:33:11,040 --> 00:33:13,830 at the same time, then there's your uniqueness. And there's 575 00:33:13,830 --> 00:33:17,460 there's your USP to use copywriting terms. And, and it 576 00:33:17,460 --> 00:33:20,460 seems like it comes from the way that we're talking here, it 577 00:33:20,460 --> 00:33:23,760 seems it comes about from the curiosity and sometimes trying 578 00:33:23,760 --> 00:33:27,180 new things and trying something new and, you know, jumping into 579 00:33:27,180 --> 00:33:30,210 like Google sheets or something like that doesn't need to be 580 00:33:30,210 --> 00:33:34,530 forever, you can just watch that Google Tag Manager video and 581 00:33:34,530 --> 00:33:36,690 play around with it and and say, Okay, well I set it up, but I 582 00:33:36,690 --> 00:33:39,180 don't want to have to maintain it, someone else can do that. Or 583 00:33:39,180 --> 00:33:42,240 if someone else is doing it, you can kind of just get a better 584 00:33:42,240 --> 00:33:45,810 idea for what it is that they're doing. Like I mean, sometimes I 585 00:33:45,810 --> 00:33:48,780 have employees that say, Well, you know, in slack you can add 586 00:33:48,780 --> 00:33:52,050 this and this and add like this workflow and this form and 587 00:33:52,050 --> 00:33:54,690 sometimes I'm like, Whoa, I need to watch some YouTube videos 588 00:33:54,690 --> 00:33:57,270 kind of like you said that you did because like there's just so 589 00:33:57,300 --> 00:33:59,820 there's there's so many like little features of all the 590 00:33:59,820 --> 00:34:02,280 software and all these tools that we use that we're just 591 00:34:02,280 --> 00:34:04,920 barely scratching the surface of and they're they're worth 592 00:34:04,920 --> 00:34:08,130 looking into and that comes from loving learning and being 593 00:34:08,130 --> 00:34:11,460 curious and being willing to be wrong and doing experiments and 594 00:34:11,460 --> 00:34:14,670 then looking at the data and then like adjusting format so I 595 00:34:14,670 --> 00:34:18,000 mean so much cool stuff to think about this really is the best 596 00:34:18,000 --> 00:34:22,200 time to be alive best time to be an entrepreneur so people are as 597 00:34:22,230 --> 00:34:25,320 excited and fired up as I am from our conversation here Mike 598 00:34:25,380 --> 00:34:28,020 what's the next step here? Where should they go to find out more 599 00:34:28,020 --> 00:34:30,420 about you find out about your company your website where do we 600 00:34:30,420 --> 00:34:30,810 go? 601 00:34:31,290 --> 00:34:35,250 Unknown: Sure so my my main website is only one Mike calm 602 00:34:35,250 --> 00:34:39,600 it's way old says there's not a very good site name but it's Oh, 603 00:34:40,290 --> 00:34:47,250 only Oh, oh, Annie, Mike calm only one Mike calm. And also 604 00:34:47,250 --> 00:34:51,810 I've got a I'm actually putting together a software to help 605 00:34:51,810 --> 00:34:55,320 people write copy faster and it's called pronto and that's up 606 00:34:55,320 --> 00:34:59,400 at pronto, right calm. It's not out yet but it will be soon and 607 00:34:59,400 --> 00:35:02,070 it's going to be pretty Awesome is combining templates, the 608 00:35:02,070 --> 00:35:06,510 ability to grab info from anywhere and AI it's kind of 609 00:35:06,510 --> 00:35:10,170 like it'd be the first of its kind. So pronto right calm you 610 00:35:10,170 --> 00:35:12,450 go there and get on the pre list. 611 00:35:12,840 --> 00:35:14,760 Robert Plank: Fantastic well now you're speaking my language 612 00:35:14,760 --> 00:35:17,580 right combining the psychology with the marketing and the 613 00:35:17,580 --> 00:35:20,730 cutting edge stuff like the AI sounds exciting pronto. 614 00:35:20,760 --> 00:35:25,200 right.com is the place to go. And only one Mike calm. Any 615 00:35:25,200 --> 00:35:28,050 final parting words of advice here Mike as we wrap up, wind 616 00:35:28,050 --> 00:35:29,010 down on conversation. 617 00:35:29,460 --> 00:35:32,520 Unknown: Yeah, just no matter what keep at it. You know, I 618 00:35:32,520 --> 00:35:35,910 mean, like, I want to say like to also all the things that I 619 00:35:35,910 --> 00:35:39,000 say and teach, I'm not 100% you know, I mean, I'm not the 620 00:35:39,000 --> 00:35:42,090 perfect guy. There's days I'm like, screw this. I'm like, I'm 621 00:35:42,090 --> 00:35:45,180 not doing anything, you know, even though I do understand 622 00:35:45,180 --> 00:35:48,990 that, like, I'm not perfect. And I want to I don't want people to 623 00:35:48,990 --> 00:35:53,100 think that but it's all about being better than you. Were 624 00:35:53,100 --> 00:35:55,770 before, right? So don't ever feel like you have to reach up 625 00:35:55,770 --> 00:35:58,950 to some ideal that you read about or you know, you know that 626 00:35:58,950 --> 00:36:03,420 you're not Jeff Bezos or whatever, right or Ilan, right? 627 00:36:03,420 --> 00:36:07,650 That the be the best view that you can be and then and then see 628 00:36:07,650 --> 00:36:08,640 where you end up.