1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:03,930 Robert Plank: Oh, welcome back to the podcast. We're here with 2 00:00:03,930 --> 00:00:08,100 Michael Keplinger from Smash brand, which is an agile brand 3 00:00:08,130 --> 00:00:12,840 strategy agency for consumer packaged goods that specializes 4 00:00:12,840 --> 00:00:16,560 in a complete approach to market research, product design, and 5 00:00:16,560 --> 00:00:18,900 testing. We're going to talk about so many subjects gonna 6 00:00:18,900 --> 00:00:21,930 have a lot of fun, Michael, glad to be talking to you, Robert. 7 00:00:21,930 --> 00:00:22,080 It's 8 00:00:22,080 --> 00:00:23,910 Unknown: great to be here. Thanks for having me. 9 00:00:24,270 --> 00:00:26,340 Robert Plank: I'm super glad to have you. And I know that right 10 00:00:26,340 --> 00:00:28,470 before the call, we said like we have all the ideas for things to 11 00:00:28,470 --> 00:00:31,560 talk about. But just right off the bat, just to give us some 12 00:00:31,590 --> 00:00:34,860 some meat on the bone. What have you been up to the last 12 13 00:00:34,860 --> 00:00:37,680 months or so? What has you excited? What should we really 14 00:00:37,680 --> 00:00:40,980 all know about as far as your projects what you have going on? 15 00:00:40,980 --> 00:00:42,780 What just has you pumped up these days? 16 00:00:43,530 --> 00:00:46,560 Unknown: Yeah, we own we own our own brands. And that's what we 17 00:00:46,560 --> 00:00:50,190 do at our agency. And really, what gets me passionate, what I 18 00:00:50,250 --> 00:00:53,160 get excited about is putting a really good product on the 19 00:00:53,160 --> 00:00:56,760 shelf. And it's not always what's in the pack or in the 20 00:00:56,760 --> 00:01:00,600 box. But really the perceptions that people take from it, 21 00:01:00,630 --> 00:01:04,200 whether it's the product itself, or kind of how you communicate 22 00:01:04,200 --> 00:01:06,930 it and visualize it on pack. Okay, 23 00:01:06,960 --> 00:01:10,440 Robert Plank: and so just to give us like a mind picture in 24 00:01:10,440 --> 00:01:13,830 our imagination, as far as the packaging, the branding, the 25 00:01:13,830 --> 00:01:18,720 things that you work on, is there a project? Is there, some 26 00:01:18,720 --> 00:01:22,560 kind of packaging or branding that you've been involved in 27 00:01:22,620 --> 00:01:25,530 recently, that just has you like, really proud of like, as 28 00:01:25,530 --> 00:01:27,900 far as like a really good job you did, and like things about 29 00:01:27,900 --> 00:01:28,710 it that stood out. 30 00:01:30,060 --> 00:01:35,190 Unknown: Um, I'll just go ahead and talk about the brand. We own 31 00:01:35,220 --> 00:01:38,460 a brand that we own, we sell. It's a kid's gonna get vitamin 32 00:01:38,460 --> 00:01:43,260 line called squiggles. And it does, it does well, exclusively 33 00:01:43,260 --> 00:01:47,580 on Amazon, and we are seeing increased competition. And so 34 00:01:47,580 --> 00:01:51,510 we're currently in the midst of a big rebranding there and 35 00:01:51,510 --> 00:01:55,890 elevating the brand. And that's, that's what got me really super 36 00:01:55,890 --> 00:01:56,640 excited lately. 37 00:01:57,180 --> 00:02:00,120 Robert Plank: And so these are gummies for kids. That's right. 38 00:02:00,120 --> 00:02:04,110 Yeah, vitamins, cool. Vitamin gummies. For kids, three kids, 39 00:02:04,110 --> 00:02:04,230 it's 40 00:02:04,230 --> 00:02:07,500 Unknown: the only way my kids eat vitamins. Nice. And that's 41 00:02:07,500 --> 00:02:07,830 always 42 00:02:07,860 --> 00:02:10,590 Robert Plank: it's always fun to hear about some of these Amazon 43 00:02:10,620 --> 00:02:13,710 ecommerce products, because people have all these amazing 44 00:02:13,740 --> 00:02:16,950 ideas. Like I think I talked to one guy interview once, like, it 45 00:02:16,950 --> 00:02:20,220 was like a cutting kitchen cutting board with all kinds of 46 00:02:20,220 --> 00:02:23,010 measurements built in. And like, it's like some of these Amazon 47 00:02:23,010 --> 00:02:25,800 things that these guys come up with. I'm like, Why is this not 48 00:02:25,800 --> 00:02:29,010 in stores? Why is this not a Walmart or Target or something 49 00:02:29,010 --> 00:02:31,920 like some of these people come up with these really innovative 50 00:02:31,950 --> 00:02:35,910 things. And so as far as, like you said, that you like, you 51 00:02:35,910 --> 00:02:38,730 know, there's these gummies for kids so that way, they take 52 00:02:38,730 --> 00:02:42,210 their vitamins the right way, but there is competition, kind 53 00:02:42,210 --> 00:02:46,140 of working its way in there. So what have you had to do to stand 54 00:02:46,140 --> 00:02:49,320 out and stay competitive? And, and like, you know, I imagine 55 00:02:49,320 --> 00:02:51,990 there's things but like with the copywriting with the packaging, 56 00:02:51,990 --> 00:02:55,110 but what have you had to do to kind of stay alive in the in a 57 00:02:55,110 --> 00:02:56,580 cutthroat Amazon world? 58 00:02:57,330 --> 00:03:00,480 Unknown: Yeah, I mean, you, you you unpack so many things, 59 00:03:00,900 --> 00:03:03,030 whether you realize it or not, when you were kind of talking 60 00:03:03,030 --> 00:03:06,660 through that, I think the world is definitely different of how a 61 00:03:06,660 --> 00:03:09,900 product comes to market. And, and, and that's because it's so 62 00:03:09,900 --> 00:03:13,140 much easier. And we can test things and get things that are 63 00:03:13,140 --> 00:03:16,080 working. And really that's what that's what ends up on the shelf 64 00:03:16,080 --> 00:03:17,970 is because you just know it's going to work because it's kind 65 00:03:17,970 --> 00:03:21,150 of was a lot easier. So But the flip side of that, which is 66 00:03:21,150 --> 00:03:24,600 really answering your question is with that comes so much more 67 00:03:24,600 --> 00:03:29,340 competition. And so we launched this brand, almost two years 68 00:03:29,340 --> 00:03:32,910 ago, kind of a gap in the marketplace specific kind of 69 00:03:32,940 --> 00:03:36,450 supplements that were needed for kids, I guess, like kind of 70 00:03:36,450 --> 00:03:39,900 scratching your own itch, something that we needed, wasn't 71 00:03:39,900 --> 00:03:43,500 available. So we made it and and that's really kind of how we got 72 00:03:43,500 --> 00:03:46,800 some traction. But usually when you when you do well, and you're 73 00:03:46,800 --> 00:03:50,520 serving an underserved need, then then you know, other people 74 00:03:50,520 --> 00:03:54,930 come and do the same thing. And so where we are today is, you 75 00:03:54,930 --> 00:03:58,290 know, I think that we got our traction, we got our movement, 76 00:03:58,290 --> 00:04:01,200 because we're serving a need that you couldn't get anywhere 77 00:04:01,200 --> 00:04:05,640 else. And so you know, and I own a branding agency. So I like to 78 00:04:05,640 --> 00:04:09,090 believe we did a pretty good job branding our products. But 79 00:04:09,270 --> 00:04:11,730 today, we've just got a lot consumers have a lot more 80 00:04:11,730 --> 00:04:15,240 choices. And and so those brands and you don't know what they 81 00:04:15,240 --> 00:04:18,240 look like until they're there. And so we kind of the perception 82 00:04:18,240 --> 00:04:22,320 that we get as a brand in relation to my competitors is 83 00:04:22,320 --> 00:04:25,980 different today. And so we we see an opportunity to carve out 84 00:04:26,520 --> 00:04:29,940 a different kind of, it's not radically different but 85 00:04:30,000 --> 00:04:34,590 elevating the brand to just kind of being a leader and connecting 86 00:04:34,590 --> 00:04:39,540 more with with really, you know where maybe we do a lot of 87 00:04:39,540 --> 00:04:41,820 talking about our ingredients, which is really common with 88 00:04:41,820 --> 00:04:45,330 supplements and things like this, and elevating above to 89 00:04:45,330 --> 00:04:49,200 more like a neat state. So we're moving up to how parents think 90 00:04:49,200 --> 00:04:52,890 about what their needs are their kids are and you know, deep down 91 00:04:52,890 --> 00:04:56,490 in your head that's a bit more of an emotional, an emotional 92 00:04:56,490 --> 00:04:59,970 thing going on in your head. And so you get some consumer insight 93 00:05:00,000 --> 00:05:03,420 If you understand how that thinking process goes, and, and 94 00:05:03,420 --> 00:05:06,870 you recraft your brand through, you know, ultimately like, what 95 00:05:06,870 --> 00:05:11,040 is my strategy that's different? How do I get perceived as being 96 00:05:11,220 --> 00:05:14,370 this kind of leader that really understands parents and their 97 00:05:14,370 --> 00:05:17,730 kids? And then how does my messaging need to change to 98 00:05:17,730 --> 00:05:20,760 reflect that. So that's kind of the work that we that we've been 99 00:05:20,760 --> 00:05:23,670 doing. And then ultimately, that's going to lead to kind of 100 00:05:23,670 --> 00:05:25,440 different packaging and different visuals that we're 101 00:05:25,440 --> 00:05:26,970 using to represent all of that stuff. 102 00:05:27,540 --> 00:05:29,670 Robert Plank: Well, that sounds like a lot of fun to be able to 103 00:05:29,670 --> 00:05:33,780 jump in to some completely new niche that isn't just the usual, 104 00:05:33,810 --> 00:05:37,260 you know, this is the stuff and pontificating about branding, 105 00:05:37,260 --> 00:05:39,210 and kind of like, you know what I'm talking about Michael, 106 00:05:39,210 --> 00:05:41,910 right. When like, you get like, so caught up in like business 107 00:05:41,910 --> 00:05:44,460 terms and abstract things, it's sometimes it's fun is to be 108 00:05:44,460 --> 00:05:48,000 like, Okay, what are people looking for? Where's the gap in 109 00:05:48,000 --> 00:05:52,200 the marketplace? And you kind of exhaust the the content about 110 00:05:52,200 --> 00:05:54,660 Well, talking about ingredients and healthy stuff, but then kind 111 00:05:54,660 --> 00:05:58,410 of taking it another level or to kind of further out and being 112 00:05:58,410 --> 00:06:01,470 like, okay, like, what's, what's the emotional things that are 113 00:06:01,470 --> 00:06:04,860 bringing them to me? And what even led them to searching for 114 00:06:04,860 --> 00:06:09,030 this? And how would they, why would they choose me instead of 115 00:06:09,030 --> 00:06:12,120 someone else? And so it's, it seems like, it's a lot of fun, 116 00:06:12,210 --> 00:06:14,700 especially just kind of like starting from scratch there. And 117 00:06:14,700 --> 00:06:18,030 so like, how, what were the steps involved in going from 118 00:06:18,150 --> 00:06:22,080 just the idea to having all this branding and all this stuff in 119 00:06:22,080 --> 00:06:25,950 place? Like, like, I mean, do you start with the like, the box 120 00:06:25,950 --> 00:06:29,400 design? Or do you look for suppliers? Or like, where do you 121 00:06:29,400 --> 00:06:31,680 even begin to crack this nut? Yeah, 122 00:06:31,680 --> 00:06:33,510 Unknown: when we think about kind of the whole business 123 00:06:33,540 --> 00:06:38,070 angle, you know, you've got an idea of her product, and you got 124 00:06:38,070 --> 00:06:42,120 to make the product. So obviously, supplements or 125 00:06:42,120 --> 00:06:44,520 anything you're going to put in your mouth, in general you're 126 00:06:44,520 --> 00:06:46,380 going to ingest, you're probably not going to make it in your 127 00:06:46,380 --> 00:06:49,410 garage. So you got to you got to find those partners and that 128 00:06:49,440 --> 00:06:53,550 supplements in particular aren't too hard to find, you know, co 129 00:06:53,550 --> 00:06:57,690 Packer contract manufacturers that will kind of build it to 130 00:06:57,690 --> 00:07:01,260 your to your specs and put it in a bottle. So those are a bit 131 00:07:01,260 --> 00:07:04,410 more of the kind of in happy to kind of talk through all those. 132 00:07:04,410 --> 00:07:07,590 But you know, the business nuances are certainly important. 133 00:07:07,590 --> 00:07:10,770 You know, making sure you can make a product and consistently 134 00:07:10,770 --> 00:07:14,460 make it and it's it's a good quality product are all things 135 00:07:14,460 --> 00:07:19,200 that I think for a startup and getting moving you today, it's 136 00:07:19,200 --> 00:07:21,630 easier than ever to leverage partners. And I think that 137 00:07:21,630 --> 00:07:26,730 people looking to do something similar should should steer away 138 00:07:26,760 --> 00:07:29,370 early on from trying to do everything themselves and really 139 00:07:29,820 --> 00:07:33,750 leverage the experts that can do that. Because the hard part 140 00:07:33,750 --> 00:07:36,840 that's going to be hard to find anyone to do well for you is 141 00:07:36,840 --> 00:07:40,650 those other pieces that we talked about, of really the 142 00:07:40,650 --> 00:07:45,210 branding and the consumer perception. Going back to what I 143 00:07:45,210 --> 00:07:48,810 said, there's, there's so many choices we have consumers have. 144 00:07:48,810 --> 00:07:55,650 And so I think that it's easy to gloss over how important that 145 00:07:55,650 --> 00:08:00,510 is, and how how big of an impact subtle differences can make. And 146 00:08:00,510 --> 00:08:02,730 really the only way to do it, there's a lot of guesswork that 147 00:08:02,730 --> 00:08:06,780 happens. And it still happens today every day. But we tend to 148 00:08:07,020 --> 00:08:11,310 try to get in front of consumers and test those ideas. So, so 149 00:08:11,310 --> 00:08:14,760 measure, put it in front of them simulate a buying experience, 150 00:08:14,880 --> 00:08:19,200 show them different ideas, understand how, how this, how 151 00:08:19,200 --> 00:08:21,330 it's perceived, and if it kind of aligns with what they're 152 00:08:21,330 --> 00:08:24,960 looking for. And that's really our recipe for success of 153 00:08:25,140 --> 00:08:27,690 putting some is a lot of work to put something on the shelf, you 154 00:08:27,690 --> 00:08:31,620 know, print 1000s of labels and and then you you know, co packer 155 00:08:31,620 --> 00:08:34,080 is going to put it all together, you got a finished product. And 156 00:08:34,440 --> 00:08:37,410 it's not really easy to change something like you can with a 157 00:08:37,410 --> 00:08:41,220 digital ad, if it's not right. And so there's a lot of benefit 158 00:08:41,220 --> 00:08:43,650 to doing that upfront work to get it right the first time. 159 00:08:44,340 --> 00:08:44,820 Well, fair 160 00:08:44,820 --> 00:08:47,580 Robert Plank: enough. Yeah, a lot of moving parts and a lot of 161 00:08:47,580 --> 00:08:51,360 like mistakes that could be made in one area that then ripple out 162 00:08:51,360 --> 00:08:54,930 into other problems in other areas. And so I imagine there 163 00:08:54,930 --> 00:08:57,570 could be some kind of like scary things happening. And do you 164 00:08:57,570 --> 00:09:01,380 have any any stories along those lines? Like it could be with the 165 00:09:01,380 --> 00:09:04,140 squiggles ran or could be with something else? But has there 166 00:09:04,140 --> 00:09:07,950 been in your line of work? In your years of experience? Has 167 00:09:07,950 --> 00:09:10,590 there been like a real panic moment? Has there been a time 168 00:09:10,590 --> 00:09:13,620 when, like things were rocking and rolling and you were, you 169 00:09:13,620 --> 00:09:18,720 know, on whatever step three of 12 and you just you totally hit 170 00:09:18,720 --> 00:09:21,630 a wall and there was like an emergency and you weren't sure 171 00:09:21,690 --> 00:09:23,880 what was going to happen next and you had to maybe think 172 00:09:23,880 --> 00:09:25,710 creatively to get outside of a jam. 173 00:09:27,480 --> 00:09:31,890 Unknown: Um, gosh, there's, there's, there's tons of tons of 174 00:09:31,890 --> 00:09:37,560 examples. Really. I think. I think that and I don't know how 175 00:09:37,590 --> 00:09:40,890 illustrative any one of them in particular would be other than 176 00:09:41,970 --> 00:09:45,210 of you know, in as we're talking about Amazon particular. I mean, 177 00:09:45,210 --> 00:09:47,970 you can make or break your business by making mistakes on 178 00:09:47,970 --> 00:09:51,150 there and whether it's which we've had experience with of, 179 00:09:51,300 --> 00:09:54,510 you know, not complying with some nuance of Amazon's Terms of 180 00:09:54,510 --> 00:09:58,230 Service, or in the case of doing something that's perfectly 181 00:09:58,230 --> 00:10:03,720 legal, but actually Um, is is is against Amazon's Terms of 182 00:10:03,720 --> 00:10:07,560 Service in particular related to say some some things that you 183 00:10:07,560 --> 00:10:11,910 might say comparison to other products and and really you know 184 00:10:11,910 --> 00:10:15,000 I've learned a hard lesson many years ago on a product that we 185 00:10:15,000 --> 00:10:17,460 actually don't sell anymore and I could probably attribute it to 186 00:10:17,460 --> 00:10:21,630 this this kind of mistake and early on in the Amazon business 187 00:10:22,050 --> 00:10:25,770 of getting a getting a listing delisted because of the way that 188 00:10:25,770 --> 00:10:32,190 we are referencing a competitor. And, and the I'm not gonna call 189 00:10:32,190 --> 00:10:36,750 it a competitor but we all know when you go into a CVS or Rite 190 00:10:36,750 --> 00:10:40,410 Aid or Albertsons and you've got the store brands and you've got 191 00:10:40,410 --> 00:10:43,650 let's say, you're in the lotion aisle and you've got Neutrogena 192 00:10:43,770 --> 00:10:48,420 big brand, really expensive products. And then they've got 193 00:10:48,420 --> 00:10:50,850 the house brand that's right next to it said compared to the 194 00:10:50,850 --> 00:10:53,700 ingredients of Neutrogena and so some people are gonna buy the 195 00:10:53,730 --> 00:10:57,060 brand name that they trust and some are gonna buy the other 196 00:10:57,060 --> 00:11:00,600 brand that because it's very similar and there's actually 197 00:11:00,600 --> 00:11:02,940 nothing wrong with that you're calling up the trademarks. But 198 00:11:03,480 --> 00:11:07,590 in this particular case, it caused us to have a listing 199 00:11:07,590 --> 00:11:12,090 delisted and and just kind of not taking the right steps not 200 00:11:12,090 --> 00:11:16,050 being proactive enough. Three months later, when the listing 201 00:11:16,050 --> 00:11:20,340 was finally put back in place it was difficult to recover from 202 00:11:20,370 --> 00:11:24,930 from that so there's I think that the the key is to just is 203 00:11:24,930 --> 00:11:30,510 just be reactive and and fast of trying to correct for things and 204 00:11:30,540 --> 00:11:34,200 of course trying to avoid them to begin with is quite 205 00:11:34,200 --> 00:11:34,680 important. 206 00:11:35,520 --> 00:11:39,840 Robert Plank: And and yeah, it's it seems so scary all the the 207 00:11:39,840 --> 00:11:43,590 potential dangers that that could come across like even just 208 00:11:43,590 --> 00:11:46,440 from Amazon itself, right all these weird rules and 209 00:11:46,440 --> 00:11:50,010 regulations. And then even like those, that gray area of like 210 00:11:50,010 --> 00:11:52,680 the copyrights and trademarks like you mentioned there like 211 00:11:52,740 --> 00:11:55,230 you always hear little things like that like you like you 212 00:11:55,230 --> 00:11:58,290 couldn't you can't ignore level like open a hamburger stand and 213 00:11:58,290 --> 00:12:00,840 say, well our burgers are like better than McDonald's even 214 00:12:00,840 --> 00:12:03,150 though you're just you're saying I'm not I'm not McDonald's, but 215 00:12:03,150 --> 00:12:05,820 even like referencing them in some of those weird ways gets 216 00:12:05,820 --> 00:12:08,850 you in trouble. And even if you think you have a handle on that, 217 00:12:08,880 --> 00:12:11,940 who knows what kind of rules changed and even with Amazon 218 00:12:11,940 --> 00:12:15,090 itself, and you always hear these stories with the with 219 00:12:15,090 --> 00:12:18,780 these competitors, right with the pricing robots undercutting 220 00:12:18,780 --> 00:12:23,250 you or stealing the buy box from you or sending in like bogus 221 00:12:23,250 --> 00:12:26,790 claims, like the counterfeiting and things like that like or 222 00:12:26,970 --> 00:12:29,880 even when there's like food or supplements involved. We hear 223 00:12:29,880 --> 00:12:32,970 even more horror stories right about the like the expiration 224 00:12:32,970 --> 00:12:35,640 dates or things not labeled right or having all kinds of 225 00:12:35,760 --> 00:12:38,730 extra like inventory that you have to decide, am I going to 226 00:12:38,730 --> 00:12:44,100 pay Amazon to trash all this? Or will I pay Amazon to send it to 227 00:12:44,100 --> 00:12:48,360 me in the mail and on all these crazy scary things. And so it's 228 00:12:48,360 --> 00:12:51,450 really hammering the point home for me listening to some of your 229 00:12:51,450 --> 00:12:55,770 stories is how important it is to talk to an expert talk to a 230 00:12:55,770 --> 00:12:59,430 professional consult with someone who has been there and 231 00:12:59,430 --> 00:13:02,820 who knows the things that you're looking for not just the the 232 00:13:02,820 --> 00:13:05,670 knowns but also the unknowns, right? Who knows about the 233 00:13:05,670 --> 00:13:10,050 things that you hadn't even thought of. And so this is all 234 00:13:10,050 --> 00:13:14,040 cool to think about as far as the your success on Amazon, your 235 00:13:14,040 --> 00:13:16,770 kind of fun experiments and things like that. And even 236 00:13:16,770 --> 00:13:19,470 though it might not exactly apply to this audience, you 237 00:13:19,470 --> 00:13:22,380 never know who's listening, I kind of want to go a little bit 238 00:13:22,410 --> 00:13:26,280 a little bit wider in scope and talk about smash brand and some 239 00:13:26,280 --> 00:13:28,110 of the other things that you guys do because this is kind of 240 00:13:28,110 --> 00:13:32,100 fun to think about as far as like practical Amazon ecommerce 241 00:13:32,130 --> 00:13:35,580 usage but also as far as smash brand in general, like what else 242 00:13:35,580 --> 00:13:39,540 do you guys do and what sort of size clients do you work with. 243 00:13:40,770 --> 00:13:47,010 Unknown: Um, so we our agency is rather niche exclusively dealing 244 00:13:47,010 --> 00:13:51,510 with clients usually in market but we we do work with with 245 00:13:51,510 --> 00:13:55,200 startup brands too. But ultimately, they're putting a 246 00:13:55,200 --> 00:13:59,820 product on the shelf consumers CPG consumer packaged goods and 247 00:13:59,820 --> 00:14:02,670 you know, on the shelf is proverbial these days because 248 00:14:02,670 --> 00:14:06,540 it's just as much online but but even as you look at E commerce 249 00:14:06,540 --> 00:14:10,440 and physical products that come in the mail versus the grocery 250 00:14:10,440 --> 00:14:13,650 store or drugstore so those are the kinds of products that we 251 00:14:13,650 --> 00:14:18,450 are focused on helping brands bring to market and typically 252 00:14:18,450 --> 00:14:21,780 they've got they've got an idea of what their product is what's 253 00:14:21,780 --> 00:14:25,800 gonna go in the bottle or box or whatever it is. And our job 254 00:14:25,800 --> 00:14:30,000 really as a branding experts is to understand the consumer and 255 00:14:30,000 --> 00:14:33,450 understand how we represent that product through words and 256 00:14:33,450 --> 00:14:38,100 visuals on pack to give them the best the best performance on 257 00:14:38,100 --> 00:14:41,580 shelf like meaning the most sales driving the most sales and 258 00:14:41,580 --> 00:14:44,310 so that comes down to having a brand strategy differentiate 259 00:14:44,310 --> 00:14:49,110 from from your competition both visually and conceptually. And 260 00:14:49,110 --> 00:14:53,340 and then ultimately having a great product is the recipe for 261 00:14:53,340 --> 00:14:56,700 success and really kind of where where we spend most of our time 262 00:14:57,540 --> 00:14:59,460 Robert Plank: will cool and I mean this is fun to think about 263 00:14:59,460 --> 00:15:02,610 because Like there's there's probably like, like four or five 264 00:15:02,610 --> 00:15:04,800 different types of people that we're talking to you right now 265 00:15:04,800 --> 00:15:08,700 Michael, there's like people who are like exactly the fit for you 266 00:15:08,700 --> 00:15:11,460 and what you're talking about. There's kind of like the Amazon 267 00:15:11,460 --> 00:15:14,190 crowd that we unpacked a little bit. There's also kind of the 268 00:15:14,190 --> 00:15:16,770 angle to talk about, I'm just kind of hearing about your 269 00:15:16,770 --> 00:15:19,800 mindset. So it's so it's all useful, even if, even if you 270 00:15:19,800 --> 00:15:22,860 might feel a little a little like niche or drill down. But so 271 00:15:22,860 --> 00:15:26,100 what interests me is, so you mentioned there about, if you're 272 00:15:26,130 --> 00:15:29,490 dealing with like the CPG, consumer packaged goods clients, 273 00:15:29,550 --> 00:15:32,160 you're, you're saying that like one of the kind of important 274 00:15:32,160 --> 00:15:35,040 criteria in there is standing out, right, because like, 275 00:15:35,070 --> 00:15:38,070 there's like this limited shelf space. And I'm sure that it like 276 00:15:38,070 --> 00:15:40,920 everyone else on the shelf is already having like bright 277 00:15:40,920 --> 00:15:44,640 colors or doing their own things to stand out. And so is there in 278 00:15:44,640 --> 00:15:46,890 these last few minutes here, we're talking is there like a 279 00:15:46,890 --> 00:15:50,940 fun story, anything that comes to mind, as far as you're doing 280 00:15:50,940 --> 00:15:53,940 this, you like kind of thinking outside the box and coming up 281 00:15:53,940 --> 00:15:57,300 with a way to make packaging really stand out, even compared 282 00:15:57,300 --> 00:15:58,830 to what they already might have planned? 283 00:15:59,970 --> 00:16:04,230 Unknown: Yeah, I'm actually in the middle of talking about 284 00:16:04,230 --> 00:16:07,410 this. This is a, this is a project we worked on last year. 285 00:16:07,440 --> 00:16:12,870 And, and it's just such, it was such a fun project. And so it's 286 00:16:12,900 --> 00:16:16,260 canned tomatoes. And this is a brand red gold, they've been in 287 00:16:16,260 --> 00:16:21,300 business for five generations, they're in, in the Midwest, and 288 00:16:21,330 --> 00:16:24,600 there was a largest producer of tomatoes, and we can all relate 289 00:16:24,600 --> 00:16:27,030 to this story. You walk down the tomato at the grocery store. 290 00:16:27,150 --> 00:16:31,020 It's unchanged and boring as hell, it's has there's just 291 00:16:31,020 --> 00:16:34,290 been, and why should anyone care? It's a can of tomatoes. 292 00:16:34,590 --> 00:16:37,800 And so but you know, when you're a brand like them, and really, 293 00:16:37,800 --> 00:16:41,280 how do you how do you stand out so we deconstruct this problem, 294 00:16:41,310 --> 00:16:44,970 we think about, okay, if people aren't really paying attention, 295 00:16:45,000 --> 00:16:48,330 then no matter what you say, it's not likely going to get 296 00:16:48,360 --> 00:16:51,300 noticed. And so you've got your first objective here is you've 297 00:16:51,300 --> 00:16:55,830 got to really stand out and grab that attention. And so visually 298 00:16:55,830 --> 00:16:58,470 standing out, and we talked a little bit about earlier about 299 00:16:58,500 --> 00:17:03,060 differentiating both visually and, conceptually. And so to win 300 00:17:03,060 --> 00:17:05,610 here, you've got to you got to stand out on the shelf first, 301 00:17:05,610 --> 00:17:08,370 and then and then you bring your, your kind of your message 302 00:17:08,370 --> 00:17:12,390 and your your story forward. And so for them, they really do make 303 00:17:12,390 --> 00:17:17,070 the best tomatoes. And in this particular, this particular 304 00:17:17,070 --> 00:17:19,980 canned tomatoes that we're working on we're we're is common 305 00:17:19,980 --> 00:17:22,560 to as diced tomatoes, and chilies. And they're used like 306 00:17:22,560 --> 00:17:24,810 cassava dip, and all those things, and they've got plenty 307 00:17:24,810 --> 00:17:29,310 of competitors. But the idea of that, of coming together of a 308 00:17:29,310 --> 00:17:31,530 company that does nothing but tomatoes, and their competitors 309 00:17:31,530 --> 00:17:35,610 are all you know, with ketchup, and hunts, and Heinz and Rotel, 310 00:17:35,610 --> 00:17:39,780 and big corporate America. And so just bringing forward a 311 00:17:39,780 --> 00:17:44,160 really fun, visual, visual design of the idea of tomato 312 00:17:44,160 --> 00:17:49,800 love, and almost pushing the boundary of, of, you know, some 313 00:17:49,800 --> 00:17:52,230 innuendos there and things like this. So it's just that's what 314 00:17:52,230 --> 00:17:55,590 was needed to break up the shelf, attracting a younger 315 00:17:55,590 --> 00:17:58,680 millennial audience, they're all They're all you know, parents 316 00:17:58,680 --> 00:18:01,320 becoming parents now and, and really hitting that phase of 317 00:18:01,320 --> 00:18:05,760 life. But you had just kind of a boring shelf and, and so a 318 00:18:05,760 --> 00:18:09,390 brand, a new brand can do this and really has nothing to lose 319 00:18:09,390 --> 00:18:13,410 and can attempt and, and succeed or not, but an existing brand, 320 00:18:13,410 --> 00:18:17,760 some someone that's protecting a rather large can existing 321 00:18:17,760 --> 00:18:21,060 consumer base staying on shelf to be successful there, you have 322 00:18:21,060 --> 00:18:23,430 to take these ideas and really take him into testing. And so we 323 00:18:23,430 --> 00:18:27,600 did a lot of testing here and, and, you know, starting early 324 00:18:27,600 --> 00:18:32,010 on, on on, on the idea of of of what the brand stands for, does 325 00:18:32,010 --> 00:18:34,830 that resonate, you know, what audience does that stand for. 326 00:18:35,040 --> 00:18:37,920 And then these visuals are really standing out on the shelf 327 00:18:37,920 --> 00:18:41,400 and cutting through that kind of boringness of the shelf. Just 328 00:18:41,400 --> 00:18:44,610 all in all, there were so many pieces across, you know, as we 329 00:18:44,610 --> 00:18:48,030 think about what the job of a product's packaging is on shelf 330 00:18:48,030 --> 00:18:51,720 to do, of really optimizing every phase along the way and 331 00:18:51,720 --> 00:18:54,510 ultimately coming out with a product, it's just, it's really 332 00:18:54,510 --> 00:18:58,710 fun. That's something that you probably even be excited to just 333 00:18:58,740 --> 00:19:02,730 sit on your shelf and which is just the opposite of everything 334 00:19:02,730 --> 00:19:06,900 in that tomato aisle. So that was just a lot of fun, really 335 00:19:06,900 --> 00:19:10,080 fun project to work on it covered every piece that we that 336 00:19:10,080 --> 00:19:13,500 we really think about of what a job what what actually needs to 337 00:19:13,500 --> 00:19:14,730 do to be successful. 338 00:19:15,480 --> 00:19:17,250 Robert Plank: And that's interesting to think about just 339 00:19:17,250 --> 00:19:20,730 like some of the times there's like, well sometimes I'm trying 340 00:19:20,730 --> 00:19:23,880 to solve my own problem or I'm trying to think of like some new 341 00:19:23,880 --> 00:19:27,510 perspective on some something in my own business. And I need to 342 00:19:27,510 --> 00:19:30,990 like get a fresh perspective I need to maybe not turn off all 343 00:19:30,990 --> 00:19:33,810 the thinking but like see how someone else does it or kind of 344 00:19:33,810 --> 00:19:37,110 get into someone else's mindset thought process. So it's 345 00:19:37,110 --> 00:19:40,650 interesting to hear about like kind of what you went through 346 00:19:40,650 --> 00:19:43,200 and even like how you're talking about well you looked at the 347 00:19:43,200 --> 00:19:46,980 existing island it was boring a year we're talking about how you 348 00:19:46,980 --> 00:19:50,340 were looking kind of to get get attention and steps like first 349 00:19:50,340 --> 00:19:53,460 by just the first impression and then like the name and then like 350 00:19:53,460 --> 00:19:56,550 the story behind it and even like when when you mentioned 351 00:19:56,550 --> 00:19:58,980 that like tomato of like you said there's like a little bit 352 00:19:58,980 --> 00:20:02,460 of the innuendo Go in there. And it's it's like with the red and 353 00:20:02,460 --> 00:20:05,940 the tomato, you think of like a heart and you think of like the 354 00:20:05,940 --> 00:20:09,420 love you're putting putting into like cooking the spaghetti sauce 355 00:20:09,420 --> 00:20:12,480 or something like that, it's kind of cool to think about when 356 00:20:12,660 --> 00:20:17,340 the rest of the aisle is hunts and Heinz and the storebrand, 357 00:20:17,340 --> 00:20:19,680 and things like that, it's really cool to think about and 358 00:20:20,040 --> 00:20:22,830 get a little bit of a glimpse into your thought process. And 359 00:20:22,920 --> 00:20:26,010 so like we said, Michael, like there's, there's some people who 360 00:20:26,010 --> 00:20:28,380 are listening who are exactly the right fit for you, and what 361 00:20:28,380 --> 00:20:31,410 you do, and the rest of us are here to get inspired and get a 362 00:20:31,410 --> 00:20:35,100 fun and good story. So for those people who want to know more 363 00:20:35,160 --> 00:20:37,950 about you, and smash brand, and everything else you have going 364 00:20:37,950 --> 00:20:40,560 on, what are the resources? What are the links, what are the next 365 00:20:40,560 --> 00:20:41,220 steps. 366 00:20:42,420 --> 00:20:44,730 Unknown: So connecting with me directly, I think I'm pretty 367 00:20:44,730 --> 00:20:48,090 easy to find on LinkedIn, Michael Keplinger, smash brand, 368 00:20:48,390 --> 00:20:52,740 but really dig in a little deeper for what we do. And 369 00:20:52,740 --> 00:20:55,890 really kind of how we apply this way of thinking to a lot of 370 00:20:55,890 --> 00:20:58,770 different examples. I think we have a lot of case studies on 371 00:20:58,770 --> 00:21:02,190 our website, we publish a lot of articles, smash brand.com. 372 00:21:03,270 --> 00:21:05,880 Robert Plank: All right, fantastic, smash brand.com. And 373 00:21:05,880 --> 00:21:08,760 go there to check out those case studies, check out those 374 00:21:08,760 --> 00:21:12,930 articles. And if you are a CPG type of business, and you think 375 00:21:12,930 --> 00:21:17,010 that Michael and has a company will be a good fit for you go 376 00:21:17,010 --> 00:21:20,520 ahead and contact them. Is there any kind of like specific ideal 377 00:21:20,520 --> 00:21:22,770 client that you're looking for her? Michael, if someone says, 378 00:21:22,860 --> 00:21:25,200 I'm listening, and that's exactly me, I should go to smash 379 00:21:25,200 --> 00:21:28,140 friend.com and contact them. Has anyone come to mind as far as 380 00:21:28,140 --> 00:21:29,970 like the ideal description, 381 00:21:30,750 --> 00:21:33,120 Unknown: I think where we have a lot of success, and where we're 382 00:21:33,120 --> 00:21:38,460 where there's a lot of value to clients is mid range CPG brands. 383 00:21:38,460 --> 00:21:40,860 And when I say mid ranges, you're not you're not the big 384 00:21:40,860 --> 00:21:44,070 Coca Cola, but you've got national distribution, you've 385 00:21:44,070 --> 00:21:47,280 got something that too, but you've got all these ankle 386 00:21:47,280 --> 00:21:50,100 biters, you know, the challenger brands that are coming, and 387 00:21:50,100 --> 00:21:53,910 really eroding market share, and that middle brand there, what 388 00:21:53,910 --> 00:21:57,630 they need to do to be relevant to stay relevant is they need to 389 00:21:57,630 --> 00:22:01,620 make changes and and address the market in more bold ways than 390 00:22:01,620 --> 00:22:05,310 they're comfortable. And the reason why we can be beneficial 391 00:22:05,310 --> 00:22:07,800 there is because testing, like I've talked a little bit about 392 00:22:07,950 --> 00:22:11,820 is an integral part of every step that we do. And so we were 393 00:22:11,820 --> 00:22:15,870 helped to reduce the risk for clients to make the changes that 394 00:22:15,870 --> 00:22:18,360 they need to do to address the market much like I talked about 395 00:22:18,360 --> 00:22:21,720 with tomato love to be to make some bold steps that resonate 396 00:22:21,720 --> 00:22:25,710 and know that you're not going to make a mistake that that cost 397 00:22:25,710 --> 00:22:29,130 you all of your market share if we already are fantastic, 398 00:22:29,160 --> 00:22:32,310 Robert Plank: Michael Keplinger smash brand.com We will see you 399 00:22:32,310 --> 00:22:35,130 there. Whether you're super serious and raring to go or you 400 00:22:35,130 --> 00:22:37,830 just want to learn a little bit more about this branding thing 401 00:22:37,830 --> 00:22:41,430 and Michael and his company and what he is doing smash brand.com 402 00:22:41,490 --> 00:22:43,920 And thank you Michael was stopping by and sharing some 403 00:22:43,920 --> 00:22:46,860 cool stories and advice with us. I really appreciate it. Thanks, 404 00:22:46,860 --> 00:22:47,730 Robert. It's been a pleasure.