1 00:00:02,009 --> 00:00:04,559 Robert Plank: Welcome back to the marketer of the day podcast, 2 00:00:04,559 --> 00:00:08,039 we have John Warrillow here, and John is an expert on helping 3 00:00:08,039 --> 00:00:11,879 business owners just like you build, accelerate and harvest 4 00:00:11,879 --> 00:00:15,779 the value of a business of your business. He has books out 5 00:00:15,779 --> 00:00:19,259 called Built to Sell creating a business that can thrive without 6 00:00:19,259 --> 00:00:22,709 you. He has the automatic customer creating a subscription 7 00:00:22,709 --> 00:00:26,699 business in any industry, and the art of selling your business 8 00:00:26,729 --> 00:00:30,329 winning strategies and secret hacks for exiting on top. So the 9 00:00:30,329 --> 00:00:34,199 way that John just now laid it out for me is there is the 10 00:00:34,199 --> 00:00:37,949 building aspect of it, there's thinking about scaling aspect of 11 00:00:37,949 --> 00:00:40,949 it, and the exiting aspect of it. So we might cover all three 12 00:00:40,949 --> 00:00:43,709 or dive deep in one, we'll just see how things will go. This is 13 00:00:43,829 --> 00:00:47,219 improvisational session, John, glad to be talking to you. Yeah, 14 00:00:47,219 --> 00:00:50,249 it's good to be with you. And so, you know, you have all 15 00:00:50,249 --> 00:00:53,969 these, this kind of, you know, these pillars set up you have 16 00:00:53,999 --> 00:00:56,519 all these like businesses accomplishments, but what has 17 00:00:56,519 --> 00:01:00,599 been your personal focus your passion for the last six or 12 18 00:01:00,599 --> 00:01:03,599 months or so what is recent with you, and what has you're fired 19 00:01:03,599 --> 00:01:03,869 up? 20 00:01:05,430 --> 00:01:09,210 Unknown: Wow, right now, we're launching a brand new product, 21 00:01:09,240 --> 00:01:12,330 which has me fired up. I don't know if I could talk too much 22 00:01:12,330 --> 00:01:17,430 about it yet. But effectively, we're trying to solve for an 23 00:01:17,430 --> 00:01:19,740 issue that I think a lot of entrepreneurs face, which is how 24 00:01:19,740 --> 00:01:23,160 do you document your standard operating procedures. And so we 25 00:01:23,160 --> 00:01:27,390 built some software to make that easier. And it's not out yet. 26 00:01:27,390 --> 00:01:29,670 But I'm really excited about that. We've been spending a ton 27 00:01:29,670 --> 00:01:33,240 of time focused on that, because that's kind of in the theme of 28 00:01:33,240 --> 00:01:35,970 what we talked about. How do you build a valuable business? Well, 29 00:01:35,970 --> 00:01:39,210 it's making sure that it doesn't depend on you personally. And 30 00:01:39,210 --> 00:01:42,780 so, you know, standard operating procedures and instructions for 31 00:01:42,780 --> 00:01:47,460 your employees is a big part of making that possible. So kind of 32 00:01:47,520 --> 00:01:49,410 behind the scenes, we've been working hard on that. 33 00:01:49,890 --> 00:01:53,850 Robert Plank: Well, and I think I can see how that relates to 34 00:01:53,850 --> 00:01:57,150 your existing teachings and your steam book. Because if like, 35 00:01:57,150 --> 00:01:59,670 like you said, if they buy one book, or they buy one piece of 36 00:01:59,670 --> 00:02:03,390 it, then the kind of the common thread there is the standard 37 00:02:03,390 --> 00:02:07,230 operating procedures. And this seems to be like the worst known 38 00:02:07,230 --> 00:02:10,350 secret, right? Everyone? Has anyone who I talked to on a 39 00:02:10,350 --> 00:02:13,950 podcast, it seems like there's kind of the are you? Are you 40 00:02:14,010 --> 00:02:17,760 messing around? Is it a hobby? Or is it a machine that maybe is 41 00:02:17,760 --> 00:02:20,550 on the way to running itself or can running itself that way, 42 00:02:20,640 --> 00:02:23,040 you're not just building yourself a second job, and 43 00:02:23,040 --> 00:02:25,410 everyone kind of has their own way of teaching it? And it 44 00:02:25,410 --> 00:02:28,830 almost seems like they invented it except for it's like, kind of 45 00:02:28,920 --> 00:02:33,180 the E Myth all over again. And like the magic of like, why 46 00:02:33,180 --> 00:02:36,060 McDonald's is so successful, because everything is step by 47 00:02:36,060 --> 00:02:40,740 step and even a 17 year old can do it. So what is your maybe 48 00:02:40,770 --> 00:02:43,290 like special spin on this subject? What is your secret 49 00:02:43,290 --> 00:02:45,990 sauce? Because so many people already talk about, you know, 50 00:02:45,990 --> 00:02:49,200 systematizing your business, but then everyone has their own kind 51 00:02:49,200 --> 00:02:51,900 of uniqueness to it. So what's your uniqueness? What do you 52 00:02:51,900 --> 00:02:54,450 kind of teach differently? The others don't about this whole 53 00:02:54,480 --> 00:02:55,950 systematizing scaling thing? 54 00:02:56,429 --> 00:02:58,859 Unknown: Yeah, well, I can't tell you exactly too much about 55 00:02:58,859 --> 00:03:01,559 the product itself, because we were not ready to talk live 56 00:03:01,559 --> 00:03:04,469 about it. But I can't tell you what I think one of the reasons, 57 00:03:04,469 --> 00:03:08,639 most standard operating procedures efforts sort of fail 58 00:03:08,639 --> 00:03:10,679 because again, I think like you a lot of entrepreneurs have 59 00:03:10,679 --> 00:03:12,809 heard this idea of oh, I need to standardize my operating 60 00:03:12,809 --> 00:03:15,659 procedures and create systems and work on that in my business. 61 00:03:15,659 --> 00:03:19,559 Like, those aren't new messages for anyone where I think we get 62 00:03:19,559 --> 00:03:22,949 tripped up is in the execution of that because here's what I 63 00:03:22,949 --> 00:03:27,389 found. A lot of entrepreneurs tend to be good at starting 64 00:03:27,389 --> 00:03:30,599 things, but not necessarily process people. I you know, have 65 00:03:30,599 --> 00:03:33,749 you ever taken your Colby, do you ever heard of a Colby index? 66 00:03:33,780 --> 00:03:36,180 Robert Plank: I've heard of it. I have not taken that psychology 67 00:03:36,180 --> 00:03:37,110 test now. So 68 00:03:37,290 --> 00:03:40,200 Unknown: similar like a Myers Briggs, Kathy Colby came out 69 00:03:40,200 --> 00:03:43,140 with this test. And it evaluates people on these four dimensions, 70 00:03:43,140 --> 00:03:46,200 everybody's got a little bit of each one. It's not a bad or a 71 00:03:46,200 --> 00:03:48,090 good thing. It's just everybody has a little bit of each one, 72 00:03:48,090 --> 00:03:52,320 they're called, see if I get this right Fact Finder, which is 73 00:03:52,320 --> 00:03:55,470 dimension that measures your desire to get facts before you 74 00:03:55,470 --> 00:04:00,600 make decisions. Follow through is the inclination to build 75 00:04:00,600 --> 00:04:05,190 processes and systematize and make you know, systems out of 76 00:04:05,190 --> 00:04:08,430 chaos, that's called follow through. The third attribute is 77 00:04:08,430 --> 00:04:12,720 called Quick Start, which is the desire the inclination to start 78 00:04:12,720 --> 00:04:14,970 lots of things, but not necessarily finish a lot like 79 00:04:15,000 --> 00:04:19,200 instigate a lot of things action oriented, etc. And the fourth is 80 00:04:19,200 --> 00:04:21,240 called implementer, which is when you're good with your 81 00:04:21,240 --> 00:04:26,070 hands, you can build things. And I remember we did I was I used 82 00:04:26,070 --> 00:04:28,470 to be part of something called the Strategic Coach and every 83 00:04:28,470 --> 00:04:30,600 quarter I get together with a bunch of other entrepreneurs, 84 00:04:30,960 --> 00:04:34,980 and Dan Sullivan had us do our Colby test, and this goes back 85 00:04:34,980 --> 00:04:39,240 20 years for me. And he had us do all these four dimensions, 86 00:04:39,270 --> 00:04:41,970 and they said, Okay, how many of you were fact finders do a score 87 00:04:41,970 --> 00:04:44,280 of at least seven out of 10 on factfinder. And like one or two 88 00:04:44,280 --> 00:04:47,340 hands went up here? How many of you and maybe there were 60 of 89 00:04:47,340 --> 00:04:50,460 us in the room? How many of your follow through right and like 90 00:04:50,460 --> 00:04:53,700 one hand goes on the air like nobody is high on follow through 91 00:04:54,000 --> 00:04:56,760 among the 60 entrepreneurs and then and then he says, Okay, 92 00:04:56,760 --> 00:04:59,520 well, does anybody have high Quickstart in the room and 93 00:04:59,520 --> 00:05:04,380 literally Every hand goes up like 60 hands in the room go up. 94 00:05:05,040 --> 00:05:10,320 And that's the issue. We are for most of us entrepreneurs, again, 95 00:05:10,320 --> 00:05:13,710 whether that's a WordPress person, a marketing agency 96 00:05:13,710 --> 00:05:16,830 owner, a blogger, you know, somebody who owns internet 97 00:05:16,830 --> 00:05:20,220 business, we tend to be really good at the starting the idea 98 00:05:20,220 --> 00:05:23,520 piece of the business, but taking it from there to 99 00:05:23,520 --> 00:05:27,930 systematizing it, it's just not the way our brains think. And so 100 00:05:27,930 --> 00:05:29,820 we get the idea of, Oh, we got to create standard operating 101 00:05:29,820 --> 00:05:33,000 procedures, and then we sort of get paralyzed because we're, you 102 00:05:33,000 --> 00:05:36,870 know, either we overthink it, or we just think it's just too too, 103 00:05:36,960 --> 00:05:40,980 too big an issue to crack and we avoid it. And so what we're 104 00:05:40,980 --> 00:05:46,050 trying to do is is is build software for quickstarts people 105 00:05:46,050 --> 00:05:50,010 who aren't necessarily inclined to create process and again, 106 00:05:50,460 --> 00:05:53,310 it's still under the hood. And I can't talk much more about it, 107 00:05:53,310 --> 00:05:55,590 but I think it's going to be a game changer. So I'm excited 108 00:05:55,590 --> 00:05:57,840 Robert Plank: about well, well Awesome. Well, we'll keep the 109 00:05:57,840 --> 00:06:00,390 mystique we won't go too many too much into the details, but 110 00:06:00,390 --> 00:06:03,540 it is still good to like philosophize pontificate a 111 00:06:03,540 --> 00:06:05,970 little bit about that, because we're, you're making me think of 112 00:06:05,970 --> 00:06:09,870 randomly is, you know, like, when I was when I was a kid, my 113 00:06:09,870 --> 00:06:12,390 parents kind of would force me to, like, you know, doing things 114 00:06:12,390 --> 00:06:14,400 and sticking with it. Because you know, as a kid, it's good to 115 00:06:14,400 --> 00:06:17,250 have hobbies, and sports and things like that. But they made 116 00:06:17,250 --> 00:06:20,550 me sick with baseball for three years, they made me sick with 117 00:06:20,550 --> 00:06:24,270 banned for five years. And for some reason, I kind of learned 118 00:06:24,360 --> 00:06:27,870 the wrong thing. I learned that well, if I'm if I'm not good at 119 00:06:27,870 --> 00:06:32,040 something, if I have a weakness, and I should really try to fix 120 00:06:32,040 --> 00:06:35,400 that up and become more well rounded. And I guess maybe it's 121 00:06:35,400 --> 00:06:37,770 true. Sometimes if you're like, really bad at something get to 122 00:06:37,770 --> 00:06:40,860 like acceptable level, but I kind of fell into that trap for 123 00:06:41,070 --> 00:06:43,980 a bunch of childhood years of just like, if I was bad at a 124 00:06:43,980 --> 00:06:47,130 thing, and not necessarily scared or just bad at it, I 125 00:06:47,130 --> 00:06:50,130 would be trying to increase the skill, even though it didn't 126 00:06:50,130 --> 00:06:53,310 really pay off. And then, you know, decades later, when you 127 00:06:53,310 --> 00:06:56,280 get into entrepreneurship, and people talk about outsourcing 128 00:06:56,280 --> 00:07:01,080 delegating team building, then there's this maybe new idea that 129 00:07:01,080 --> 00:07:04,200 well, if you have strengths and weaknesses, why not strengthen 130 00:07:04,200 --> 00:07:07,260 your strengths? And why not? If you have these weaknesses, why 131 00:07:07,260 --> 00:07:10,680 not go in and hire someone else to fill in the weaknesses? And 132 00:07:10,680 --> 00:07:12,990 that's just kind of what's coming to mind here. As far as 133 00:07:13,230 --> 00:07:15,870 if there's like these, if there's someone who's good at 134 00:07:15,870 --> 00:07:20,190 the processes and documenting Why force yourself why put 135 00:07:20,190 --> 00:07:23,070 yourself through this one, there's a whole world of people 136 00:07:23,070 --> 00:07:26,460 you can hire for not even as expensive as you think or not 137 00:07:26,460 --> 00:07:29,850 even for as long of a of a growing pains period as you 138 00:07:29,850 --> 00:07:33,540 think, why not just get that done? And why not have a person 139 00:07:33,540 --> 00:07:36,480 or like your upcoming piece of software or something do that. 140 00:07:36,540 --> 00:07:39,900 That way, you don't have to suffer through like just 141 00:07:39,930 --> 00:07:42,540 slogging through your weaknesses. So that's what comes 142 00:07:42,540 --> 00:07:45,360 to mind here is why not strengthen your strengths? Yeah, 143 00:07:45,360 --> 00:07:48,570 Unknown: no, I think I think you're absolutely right. And I 144 00:07:48,570 --> 00:07:51,270 think you've got to do it intelligently. If you're, if 145 00:07:51,270 --> 00:07:54,120 you're an entrepreneur, because I don't know about you. But when 146 00:07:54,120 --> 00:07:58,080 I talk to entrepreneurs, in particular ones are involved in 147 00:07:58,110 --> 00:08:02,250 in the kind of E commerce world internet world, they tend to be 148 00:08:02,250 --> 00:08:06,300 good communicators and good influencers. They're good at the 149 00:08:06,300 --> 00:08:09,330 sales pitch, particularly non technical founders, and they're 150 00:08:09,330 --> 00:08:12,480 good at talking and influencing people. And so what I think a 151 00:08:12,480 --> 00:08:15,060 lot of entrepreneurs do is say, okay, great, I should be on the 152 00:08:15,060 --> 00:08:17,970 business development side, I should be sales marketing, I 153 00:08:17,970 --> 00:08:20,820 should be talking to customers, and winning clients and then 154 00:08:20,850 --> 00:08:25,620 hire people to do the work. The challenge with that is I think 155 00:08:25,650 --> 00:08:29,520 you end up with in what we call the rainmakers dilemma, which is 156 00:08:29,520 --> 00:08:33,000 that companies grow very quickly for the first few years and then 157 00:08:33,000 --> 00:08:35,970 stall. And the reason for that is you run out of hours in the 158 00:08:35,970 --> 00:08:39,510 day and your business will only be able to generate enough 159 00:08:39,510 --> 00:08:42,480 revenue that you can personally sell. And those businesses 160 00:08:42,480 --> 00:08:44,820 generally stall in terms of size, but they also start on 161 00:08:44,820 --> 00:08:47,640 this in terms of value. Because again, it's not going to be 162 00:08:47,640 --> 00:08:50,520 worth anything to somebody else. If if you're the one doing the 163 00:08:50,520 --> 00:08:54,810 rainmaking and I remember I actually went years ago now I 164 00:08:54,810 --> 00:09:00,390 went to a course at MIT fancy school, obviously, it's not 165 00:09:00,390 --> 00:09:04,170 getting to MIT. To be clear, I went to like as an exec ed sort 166 00:09:04,170 --> 00:09:07,980 of paid my way into this program called the birthing of giants. 167 00:09:08,370 --> 00:09:11,190 It's to this day, it's the most pretentious name for a course 168 00:09:11,190 --> 00:09:13,140 ever, but it's it was an entrepreneurship course 169 00:09:13,140 --> 00:09:16,680 effectively, since been rebranded but it's called the 170 00:09:16,680 --> 00:09:19,980 Berlin giants. We heard from all these amazing speakers Petland 171 00:09:19,980 --> 00:09:24,360 shoni. Talked about dysfunctions of a team Jack stack the guy 172 00:09:24,360 --> 00:09:26,490 wrote a stake in the outcome talked about like employee 173 00:09:26,490 --> 00:09:31,560 ownership and, and a guy came in Watkins, I think it was his 174 00:09:31,560 --> 00:09:35,730 name, who just sold a company. And we're just about 65 of us. 175 00:09:35,730 --> 00:09:38,310 And this is amphitheater style. Seating is like Alright, how 176 00:09:38,310 --> 00:09:44,220 many of you guys and gals are involved in selling your product 177 00:09:44,220 --> 00:09:48,360 or service? And like all of us, like little four year old kids 178 00:09:48,360 --> 00:09:50,790 in like junior kindergarten, like raise our hand saying, Oh, 179 00:09:50,790 --> 00:09:54,060 me, me pick me. Like, we're all proud of the fact that we are 180 00:09:54,150 --> 00:09:57,030 selling our product or service and he's like, Alright, put your 181 00:09:57,030 --> 00:10:00,270 hands down. And he's like, You all have the right skin. If 182 00:10:00,270 --> 00:10:02,430 you're selling the wrong product, you got to hire 183 00:10:02,430 --> 00:10:05,550 salespeople to sell your product. And you've got to 184 00:10:05,550 --> 00:10:08,850 inject those same sales and marketing and influencing skills 185 00:10:08,850 --> 00:10:12,480 into selling your company, you make a few $1,000. When you sell 186 00:10:12,480 --> 00:10:15,120 your product, you can make many millions when you sell your 187 00:10:15,120 --> 00:10:21,900 company. And like for me that, that that message, like hit me, 188 00:10:22,260 --> 00:10:25,920 straight between the eyes, because I was really building my 189 00:10:25,920 --> 00:10:29,430 business at the time thinking that I would be bought for our 190 00:10:29,430 --> 00:10:35,070 revenue or profits or our client list. None of that matters if 191 00:10:35,070 --> 00:10:38,490 you are the one driving the bus, right? And so he was like, 192 00:10:38,520 --> 00:10:41,670 you've got all the right skills, but man, you got to sell the 193 00:10:41,670 --> 00:10:44,910 company, not the product. And that was like it was game 194 00:10:44,910 --> 00:10:47,130 changing. For me at the time. Again, this goes back many years 195 00:10:47,130 --> 00:10:47,340 now. 196 00:10:48,240 --> 00:10:50,220 Robert Plank: And yet, and that's interesting to think 197 00:10:50,220 --> 00:10:52,890 about there that, like, you know, there's there's all those 198 00:10:52,890 --> 00:10:56,190 factors that you listed, like the like the product, it's an 199 00:10:56,220 --> 00:10:58,980 intellectual property and like the monthly revenue and things 200 00:10:58,980 --> 00:11:02,100 like that, but But yeah, if you're the glue that's holding 201 00:11:02,100 --> 00:11:04,740 it all together. And if someone is buying it saying, well, if 202 00:11:04,740 --> 00:11:08,310 I'm buying it, but it does not come along with you as my new 203 00:11:08,310 --> 00:11:12,210 employee, then isn't it all going to fall apart? And you're 204 00:11:12,210 --> 00:11:15,480 also making me think about, you know, I have a couple of friends 205 00:11:15,480 --> 00:11:19,230 who have had this dream of saying, Well, I'm going to build 206 00:11:19,230 --> 00:11:22,290 this app, and I'm going to going to build the company and get 207 00:11:22,290 --> 00:11:26,580 employees and then find a buyer for $10 million. And then years 208 00:11:26,580 --> 00:11:29,730 pass. And it seems like these guys sort of gave up on that 209 00:11:29,730 --> 00:11:32,940 dream. And it made me wonder as someone just from the outside 210 00:11:32,940 --> 00:11:36,030 looking in just being this guy's friend, not really seeing the 211 00:11:36,060 --> 00:11:39,390 inside of his business wondering like, Well, I wonder if at some 212 00:11:39,390 --> 00:11:44,910 point, they forgot about that goal. I wonder if they had woken 213 00:11:44,910 --> 00:11:49,890 up every morning for five years, 10 years, raising awareness 214 00:11:49,890 --> 00:11:53,280 about their company, or like talking to whoever they needed 215 00:11:53,280 --> 00:11:56,760 to be talking to hiring whatever coach, just making whatever 216 00:11:56,760 --> 00:12:00,870 connections, I wonder if they had spent all the years slowly 217 00:12:00,870 --> 00:12:03,630 getting towards that goal of finding a buyer or talking to 218 00:12:03,630 --> 00:12:06,000 whoever they needed to talk to you. But it seems like these 219 00:12:06,000 --> 00:12:09,990 guys just kind of fell into running the business, which 220 00:12:09,990 --> 00:12:12,180 again, like it seems like, Well, isn't that what I'm supposed to 221 00:12:12,180 --> 00:12:14,460 be doing. But like, this is a weird concept here of like, 222 00:12:14,520 --> 00:12:18,720 almost like you need to be like the god who's looking down from 223 00:12:18,720 --> 00:12:21,840 the clouds, everything else. And it's just like, it's so hard to 224 00:12:21,930 --> 00:12:25,920 get one's head wrapped around because this business that you 225 00:12:25,920 --> 00:12:29,070 build, it's like an expression of, of your own personality. So 226 00:12:29,070 --> 00:12:31,410 then it's almost like losing a piece of yourself. So it's like 227 00:12:31,470 --> 00:12:35,520 all this psychological kind of just oddities at play here. 228 00:12:36,060 --> 00:12:38,310 Unknown: Yeah, no, I think you're absolutely right. I think 229 00:12:38,340 --> 00:12:42,570 we, you know, in many of us start businesses, as you know, 230 00:12:42,570 --> 00:12:47,040 to scratch an itch, you know, that we we feel needs to be kind 231 00:12:47,040 --> 00:12:51,180 of itched and, and oftentimes, it grown around a problem that 232 00:12:51,180 --> 00:12:55,200 we personally kind of feel like solving. And, and we need to, I 233 00:12:55,200 --> 00:12:59,640 think, recognize that a lot of businesses reach a point where 234 00:13:00,210 --> 00:13:03,450 life's good, right, you know that, you know, you've got a few 235 00:13:03,450 --> 00:13:07,410 $100,000 in sales, you maybe have one or two helpers that 236 00:13:07,440 --> 00:13:09,510 eliminate some of the kind of really annoying tasks in your 237 00:13:09,510 --> 00:13:12,930 business, you're, you're running all your expenses through your 238 00:13:12,930 --> 00:13:16,260 business, and you get to a point where, hey, this is pretty good, 239 00:13:16,350 --> 00:13:20,370 right? Like, I don't, this is great, I'm all good. And that 240 00:13:20,370 --> 00:13:25,620 happens for I think, in a lot of cases, the lucky ones. And, and, 241 00:13:25,650 --> 00:13:29,700 and making some of these changes to go from that to building a 242 00:13:29,700 --> 00:13:34,560 business that actually can live without you. That's, that's a 243 00:13:34,560 --> 00:13:37,800 hard bridge to cross and many choose not to cross it right, 244 00:13:37,800 --> 00:13:41,370 they've got a lifestyle business that they're they're happy with. 245 00:13:41,670 --> 00:13:45,030 And it's paying the bills, and that's fine. And then there's 246 00:13:45,030 --> 00:13:48,660 another group of entrepreneurs who say, No, I want the freedom 247 00:13:48,900 --> 00:13:51,930 that comes from having a business that's not dependent on 248 00:13:51,930 --> 00:13:56,040 me and, and that's the folks that need to take the bridge 249 00:13:56,100 --> 00:14:00,150 cross that I'm describing, which is, which is to structure it so 250 00:14:00,150 --> 00:14:05,490 that it's it's not dependent on you. Otherwise, you know, you 251 00:14:05,490 --> 00:14:08,100 may have some of the benefits of entrepreneurship, but you you 252 00:14:08,100 --> 00:14:11,640 kind of have sort of all of the liabilities of entrepreneurship, 253 00:14:11,640 --> 00:14:14,790 working all the hours of the day at night, your clients at your 254 00:14:14,790 --> 00:14:17,070 beck and call or you're being at your beck and call to your 255 00:14:17,070 --> 00:14:20,700 clients, etc. Without the upside of a job where, you know, you 256 00:14:20,700 --> 00:14:23,790 could turn it off at nine to five after nine to five or you 257 00:14:23,790 --> 00:14:26,580 know, you could have a 401k You'd get have health benefits, 258 00:14:26,580 --> 00:14:29,880 like you're getting either good benefits of having a job yet in 259 00:14:29,880 --> 00:14:33,630 fact, you know, if your business is deeply dependent on you, you 260 00:14:33,630 --> 00:14:36,540 kind of have a job right? It may be a glorified job, it's a 261 00:14:36,540 --> 00:14:39,900 dressed up job, but it's still a job. And so I think that's, you 262 00:14:39,900 --> 00:14:43,170 know, in a lot of ways, kind of no man's land so I'm a big 263 00:14:43,170 --> 00:14:46,860 believer in trying to make that bridge to Okay, I need to have a 264 00:14:46,860 --> 00:14:50,070 business that doesn't really depend on me. And then I've got 265 00:14:50,070 --> 00:14:53,940 all the cards right then I can I can just cherry pick the fun 266 00:14:53,940 --> 00:14:57,180 things to do. I can sell half of it and put some money in my 267 00:14:57,180 --> 00:15:00,720 jeans. I can sell all of it. You know you You've got a lot of 268 00:15:00,720 --> 00:15:03,360 options when your business is not dependent on you. 269 00:15:19,080 --> 00:15:20,790 Robert Plank: Well, John, this, this is great. And this, these 270 00:15:20,790 --> 00:15:24,300 are a lot of interesting things to think about and talk about. 271 00:15:24,360 --> 00:15:27,750 And you have these three books. And so like what you said, how, 272 00:15:27,810 --> 00:15:30,450 you know, do you want a glorified job? Or do you want 273 00:15:30,450 --> 00:15:33,360 these choices so that way, you can continue to have this 274 00:15:33,360 --> 00:15:36,720 glorified job if you want. Or if later on, if you get tired, if 275 00:15:36,720 --> 00:15:40,710 you have new, even better ideas, write new, it's just a scratch, 276 00:15:40,710 --> 00:15:43,890 you can go move off in different directions. But there's so many 277 00:15:43,950 --> 00:15:47,430 so much information to kind of maybe begin to drip on ourselves 278 00:15:47,430 --> 00:15:50,190 and think about and like you have your three books. But in 279 00:15:50,190 --> 00:15:53,250 these final, maybe four or five minutes of our conversation, 280 00:15:53,370 --> 00:15:58,170 what would you say is an easy win or a next step or something 281 00:15:58,170 --> 00:16:00,960 to think about, because again, everyone talks about standard 282 00:16:00,960 --> 00:16:03,750 operating procedures and like finding good people and like 283 00:16:03,750 --> 00:16:06,930 thinking about the bigger picture. But in practical terms 284 00:16:06,930 --> 00:16:10,080 for all of us listening, and the next maybe even six to 12 months 285 00:16:10,080 --> 00:16:14,070 or so what should be our focus and what should be the actions 286 00:16:14,070 --> 00:16:17,760 that we're taking that a lot of people are not taking, I'll 287 00:16:17,760 --> 00:16:19,920 Unknown: give you one simple one, and that is to stop cross 288 00:16:19,920 --> 00:16:25,020 selling. A lot of your, you know, pundits, authors, 289 00:16:25,050 --> 00:16:27,690 consultants say how you've got to cross sell your existing 290 00:16:27,690 --> 00:16:30,930 customers a new product, because it's 10 times cheaper to sell 291 00:16:30,930 --> 00:16:34,200 your existing customers a new product. And while that is true, 292 00:16:34,560 --> 00:16:39,060 it also can gross increase your revenue, but undermine the value 293 00:16:39,060 --> 00:16:42,630 of your business. Why is that the case? Well, when an acquirer 294 00:16:42,630 --> 00:16:47,640 looks at your business, they're going to make a build versus buy 295 00:16:47,640 --> 00:16:51,720 decision, right? Like, do I want to buy this company? Or do I 296 00:16:51,720 --> 00:16:55,890 want to compete with it effectively. And if they see 297 00:16:55,890 --> 00:16:59,880 your business as just a mixture of products, some of which 298 00:16:59,880 --> 00:17:03,510 you're differentiated on others of which you are an afterthought 299 00:17:03,510 --> 00:17:06,330 or a secondary player, you have no point of differentiation, 300 00:17:06,690 --> 00:17:09,270 they're going to draw the conclusion that it's better to 301 00:17:09,270 --> 00:17:12,420 compete with you. Because like when you buy cable television, 302 00:17:12,450 --> 00:17:16,650 and you have to buy 300 channels to get the two that you actually 303 00:17:16,650 --> 00:17:19,770 want. Like nobody likes that feeling, right, you actually 304 00:17:19,770 --> 00:17:23,970 want to just buy the one thing that you really desire. So 305 00:17:23,970 --> 00:17:28,020 people want to buy or acquires want to buy companies where they 306 00:17:28,020 --> 00:17:30,900 do one thing better than anybody else. I'll give you an example. 307 00:17:31,770 --> 00:17:34,740 As a woman I interviewed for boots on radio, named Stephanie 308 00:17:34,740 --> 00:17:41,760 Breedlove. And she did payroll for nannies who have a first 309 00:17:41,760 --> 00:17:45,420 give me for parents of a nanny to pay. And so kind of a very 310 00:17:45,420 --> 00:17:48,990 unique niche in this kind of world of payroll services, just 311 00:17:48,990 --> 00:17:52,500 parents who have a nanny to pay. And she built it up to about 300 312 00:17:52,500 --> 00:17:54,750 grand in revenue is just Stephanie and one assistant at 313 00:17:54,750 --> 00:17:57,900 the time. And it was starting to become more difficult for her to 314 00:17:57,900 --> 00:18:00,750 find parents who had a nanny that they needed to pay. And so 315 00:18:00,750 --> 00:18:02,790 she thought, Okay, well, how do I grow this business, and she 316 00:18:02,790 --> 00:18:06,660 was looking at two different roads. The first was to cross 317 00:18:06,660 --> 00:18:09,240 sell her existing customers a new product, right? So she's 318 00:18:09,240 --> 00:18:12,570 like, Okay, what a busy parents need while they need childcare, 319 00:18:12,570 --> 00:18:14,970 and they need dog walking services, and they need snow 320 00:18:14,970 --> 00:18:18,510 removals and all these crazy services, right? That she could 321 00:18:18,510 --> 00:18:22,140 have crossed sold. And it would have been a whole lot cheaper to 322 00:18:22,140 --> 00:18:25,560 acquire clients of that other service, because she already 323 00:18:25,560 --> 00:18:27,210 knew the customers, they were already doing business with 324 00:18:27,210 --> 00:18:32,790 them. The much more difficult road was to go find more parents 325 00:18:32,790 --> 00:18:34,560 who have a nanny to pay was going to become much more 326 00:18:34,560 --> 00:18:37,680 difficult that she would have to grow much more slowly. And to 327 00:18:37,680 --> 00:18:41,280 her credit, she says I never got into business to do dog walking 328 00:18:41,280 --> 00:18:43,980 services, I want to do payroll for parents who have an added 329 00:18:43,980 --> 00:18:46,680 pace. So she said, I'm going to grow this company more slowly. 330 00:18:47,370 --> 00:18:51,000 But I'm going to do it focused on our one unique, compelling 331 00:18:51,000 --> 00:18:54,630 niche, which was payroll for parents of an independent 25 332 00:18:54,630 --> 00:18:58,590 years goes by, and she builds this company up to $9 million in 333 00:18:58,590 --> 00:19:01,920 revenue. If you're doing the math, I mean, you know, this is 334 00:19:01,920 --> 00:19:06,060 not Tesla. This is not Google. This is not some fast growth 335 00:19:06,090 --> 00:19:09,330 Uber growth company. It's, you know, it's a, it's just kind of 336 00:19:09,360 --> 00:19:12,930 plodding along for 25 years, build it up to $9 million in 337 00:19:12,930 --> 00:19:14,850 revenue. She decides kids are out of the house, she wants to 338 00:19:14,850 --> 00:19:17,670 sell the business. She looks out in the landscape, it says who 339 00:19:17,670 --> 00:19:20,550 would have a strategic reason to buy this business and she 340 00:19:20,580 --> 00:19:25,770 discovers care.com They have 7 million subscribers. And she 341 00:19:25,770 --> 00:19:29,280 says, you know, we're 9 million in revenue on the backs of 342 00:19:29,280 --> 00:19:34,590 10,000 customers. If 1% of the 7 million subscribers to care.com 343 00:19:34,620 --> 00:19:39,090 Roberts you know care.com You know what they do? Now? You 344 00:19:39,090 --> 00:19:41,430 probably don't have kids, he's plugging your zip code into 345 00:19:41,430 --> 00:19:44,730 their search bar here.com And they will give you a list of 346 00:19:44,730 --> 00:19:49,680 five star rated babysitters and caregivers in your town. It's 347 00:19:49,680 --> 00:19:53,160 kind of like the Angie's List for plumbers and electricians 348 00:19:53,190 --> 00:19:54,600 but for caregivers. 349 00:19:54,690 --> 00:19:57,180 Robert Plank: Well I have a 17 month old so I will be using 350 00:19:57,180 --> 00:19:58,800 that very soon. paroc 351 00:19:58,800 --> 00:20:01,050 Unknown: comment is gonna be a lifetime Ever for you. So 352 00:20:01,050 --> 00:20:04,080 anyways, care.com looks at this and it's got 7 million 353 00:20:04,080 --> 00:20:08,280 subscribers think about that this is 7 million parents who 354 00:20:08,280 --> 00:20:12,570 have a nanny to pay. And Breedlove says, I got this 355 00:20:12,570 --> 00:20:16,530 little $9 million company with 10,000 Customers like, if 1% of 356 00:20:16,530 --> 00:20:19,770 your 7 million by my payroll service, that's 70,000 357 00:20:19,770 --> 00:20:22,530 customers. That's the business seven times the size of my 358 00:20:22,530 --> 00:20:27,360 business. Anyways, long story short care.com acquired 359 00:20:27,360 --> 00:20:32,400 Stephanie's little $9 million business for $54 million. Nice, 360 00:20:32,790 --> 00:20:37,050 which is like six times revenue. It's outlandishly good offer 361 00:20:37,050 --> 00:20:41,970 like almost incomprehensible multiple. And it was only made 362 00:20:41,970 --> 00:20:47,850 possible because Stephanie chose to do the one thing care.com 363 00:20:47,850 --> 00:20:50,850 would never have bought her company had she gotten into lawn 364 00:20:50,850 --> 00:20:54,690 care and dog walking and snow removal. Right? It was just that 365 00:20:54,690 --> 00:20:57,870 she had the courage and conviction to do the one thing. 366 00:20:58,320 --> 00:21:02,670 And that is the biggest mistake most entrepreneurs make is they 367 00:21:02,670 --> 00:21:04,800 start when they've got a little bit of revenue, and a few 368 00:21:04,800 --> 00:21:08,610 customers cross selling existing customers new services, and it 369 00:21:08,610 --> 00:21:11,970 makes your revenue pop. And it makes you kind of feel proud of 370 00:21:11,970 --> 00:21:14,520 yourself. And you can puff up your chest and say I got a 371 00:21:14,520 --> 00:21:17,010 million in sales or 5 million in sales or whatever the number. 372 00:21:18,150 --> 00:21:21,780 But you're diluting your unique value proposition. And that not 373 00:21:21,780 --> 00:21:25,110 only dilutes it for customers, but more importantly, it makes 374 00:21:25,110 --> 00:21:29,790 your business less desirable for acquires. And so I think the one 375 00:21:29,790 --> 00:21:33,150 thing I would leave your audience with is avoid the 376 00:21:33,150 --> 00:21:36,450 temptation of just cross selling existing customers new things. 377 00:21:36,960 --> 00:21:39,810 And instead to focus on the one thing which you are 378 00:21:39,810 --> 00:21:42,870 differentiated offering, and just have the discipline to stay 379 00:21:42,870 --> 00:21:44,850 with that. That's 380 00:21:44,850 --> 00:21:47,190 Robert Plank: huge. And just that, I feel like I need to clip 381 00:21:47,190 --> 00:21:50,760 out just that last one section and give it to two people that I 382 00:21:50,760 --> 00:21:54,120 have in mind. Exactly. Because Because I mean, you're so right, 383 00:21:54,150 --> 00:21:58,740 that it's it's easy to do just kind of make new products and 384 00:21:58,740 --> 00:22:02,130 sell it to the same audience and get that that pop in revenue. 385 00:22:02,220 --> 00:22:05,610 And that works temporarily. And that might even be a little bit 386 00:22:05,610 --> 00:22:09,000 satisfying to the ego and the work ethic and you feel like, I 387 00:22:09,000 --> 00:22:12,870 feel like, Yeah, I'm filling in all these extra hours. And then 388 00:22:12,900 --> 00:22:16,230 and to kind of separate from that, you always hear this 389 00:22:16,230 --> 00:22:20,010 advice of just be known for one thing and like become the best 390 00:22:20,010 --> 00:22:22,290 in your niche and build the list. And I think what's been 391 00:22:22,290 --> 00:22:25,290 missing from that advice until you just mentioned what you did 392 00:22:25,500 --> 00:22:30,120 is like the reason for building the list and the reason for 393 00:22:30,120 --> 00:22:32,820 knowing or becoming known about one thing and the reason for 394 00:22:32,880 --> 00:22:37,170 like doing this kind of like 8020 And the reason for going 395 00:22:37,170 --> 00:22:40,680 out there and, and marketing and you know, being on podcasts like 396 00:22:40,710 --> 00:22:43,230 like you're doing right now and like getting more attention and 397 00:22:43,230 --> 00:22:45,720 talking to people that you want to and so many people give this 398 00:22:45,720 --> 00:22:49,320 advice with without a reason to so the the reason to become 399 00:22:49,320 --> 00:22:52,980 known for one thing is that way you can find these prospects who 400 00:22:52,980 --> 00:22:56,850 could buy your company and that way, you can see why would they 401 00:22:56,850 --> 00:22:59,490 be buying me for just a little piece of it? Or would they be 402 00:22:59,490 --> 00:23:02,460 buying me for all of it. And then if you make that comparison 403 00:23:02,460 --> 00:23:05,760 of well, my my database of people that they can just roll 404 00:23:05,760 --> 00:23:09,330 into their service is this size, and the their user account is 405 00:23:09,330 --> 00:23:12,270 that size, they're making this amount of money per month. So 406 00:23:12,300 --> 00:23:15,420 they know that if they just roll this into that, then it would be 407 00:23:15,420 --> 00:23:18,450 this amount of money for them. So then the acquisition is a no 408 00:23:18,450 --> 00:23:22,710 brainer. I mean, so many things in life, John, people gave me 409 00:23:22,710 --> 00:23:26,160 advice, too, but there was never a reason behind it. And now 410 00:23:26,160 --> 00:23:29,340 there's a reason to focus on that one thing, and not let all 411 00:23:29,340 --> 00:23:34,620 the maybe maybe temporarily not stupid, but long term stupid 412 00:23:34,620 --> 00:23:35,490 decisions happen. 413 00:23:37,170 --> 00:23:39,210 Unknown: Yeah, I mean, just play the end game, right. And it's 414 00:23:39,210 --> 00:23:43,920 the same. It's the same message that that transcends virtually 415 00:23:43,920 --> 00:23:47,040 all of what I talk about. I mean, you know, you're I'm glad 416 00:23:47,040 --> 00:23:51,000 to mention you've got your child. Congratulations, by the 417 00:23:51,000 --> 00:23:54,720 way, that's amazing. One of the things that, that I think will 418 00:23:54,720 --> 00:23:59,070 help your listeners if they are parents, is to start thinking of 419 00:23:59,070 --> 00:24:02,700 their business, as opposed to thinking of your job as sort of 420 00:24:02,700 --> 00:24:06,180 the CEO of your business. Think of it as the parent of your 421 00:24:06,180 --> 00:24:10,920 company. And as you will now know, as young dad, you know 422 00:24:10,920 --> 00:24:14,040 that in the early days, you are responsible for everything that 423 00:24:14,040 --> 00:24:16,980 that child does, right when you know when it goes to the 424 00:24:16,980 --> 00:24:20,730 bathroom, when it sleeps when it burps like you do it all for 425 00:24:20,730 --> 00:24:25,170 them, right. But then over time, as they become adolescents and 426 00:24:25,170 --> 00:24:28,650 teenagers, the aspiration hopefully, is that they start to 427 00:24:28,650 --> 00:24:32,310 become little independent adults and eventually fully functioning 428 00:24:32,340 --> 00:24:36,300 adults and they are in the universe living independently. 429 00:24:36,300 --> 00:24:39,270 And I think that's the greatest sort of achievement as a parent 430 00:24:39,270 --> 00:24:41,790 is that your child is a happy functioning member of society 431 00:24:41,790 --> 00:24:46,410 and they don't need you anymore. That's the same philosophy that 432 00:24:46,410 --> 00:24:49,710 I think entrepreneurs would benefit from taking in building 433 00:24:49,710 --> 00:24:52,170 their business as opposed to chasing revenue, which is 434 00:24:52,170 --> 00:24:56,610 vanity, right? It's just the next big thing. Instead think 435 00:24:56,640 --> 00:24:59,850 you know what my job is, as the parent of this business is to 436 00:24:59,850 --> 00:25:03,840 come created so that one day, not yet, but one day, it can 437 00:25:03,840 --> 00:25:08,100 succeed without me. And that's the ultimate panacea, I think 438 00:25:08,100 --> 00:25:10,140 for an entrepreneur because again, that gives you all the 439 00:25:10,140 --> 00:25:12,960 cards as an entrepreneur. And once your business can succeed 440 00:25:12,960 --> 00:25:15,390 without you, you could sell it, you could bring on a manager and 441 00:25:15,390 --> 00:25:18,960 run it, you could take as much time as you want off, you can 442 00:25:18,990 --> 00:25:21,630 live the lifestyle that you aspire to have, all those things 443 00:25:21,630 --> 00:25:24,480 are possible. But the prerequisite is that it can 444 00:25:24,480 --> 00:25:29,130 succeed without you. And that is the job of a parent, in my view. 445 00:25:29,520 --> 00:25:32,190 And I think it should be the job of most entrepreneurs as well. 446 00:25:32,880 --> 00:25:36,090 Robert Plank: I agree, prop it up, build it, but then don't, 447 00:25:36,360 --> 00:25:40,110 don't strangle it, right, like make it where your business can 448 00:25:40,110 --> 00:25:43,350 grow without you, and you're not stifling that growth. And so I 449 00:25:43,350 --> 00:25:45,840 like a lot about how you think you're we're getting a lot of, 450 00:25:46,020 --> 00:25:49,470 instead of getting getting lost in like the facts, and the 451 00:25:49,470 --> 00:25:53,250 cliches, it seems like you're sort of communication style is 452 00:25:53,340 --> 00:25:57,600 there's a harsh truth that you hit us with. And then like maybe 453 00:25:57,630 --> 00:26:01,800 a data field story in there to get us to the point that you're 454 00:26:01,800 --> 00:26:04,470 trying to get across. And so people want to know more about 455 00:26:04,470 --> 00:26:08,160 you and what you have going on. And the ways that your training 456 00:26:08,190 --> 00:26:11,670 and your your podcasts, and your books and things can help them 457 00:26:11,670 --> 00:26:15,030 to get to get where they need to go, which is a business that 458 00:26:15,030 --> 00:26:17,730 they can sell. And that grows without them. Where does it go? 459 00:26:17,760 --> 00:26:21,240 What do they do to find out more about the great John Warrillow 460 00:26:21,270 --> 00:26:21,930 Empire 461 00:26:23,700 --> 00:26:27,840 Unknown: was really simple, built to sell.com/marketer. So 462 00:26:27,840 --> 00:26:31,440 we put together a little landing page for your listeners where 463 00:26:31,440 --> 00:26:34,830 they can download the nine subscription model worksheet, 464 00:26:34,830 --> 00:26:37,410 which allow them identify a subscription model that might be 465 00:26:37,440 --> 00:26:40,620 cool. We've got a video series on the drivers of company value. 466 00:26:40,860 --> 00:26:44,040 There's a cheat sheet and a workbook for folks who want to 467 00:26:44,250 --> 00:26:47,010 ultimately sell their company. So it's all free. And it's just 468 00:26:47,040 --> 00:26:49,740 built to sell.com/marketer. 469 00:26:50,370 --> 00:26:52,350 Robert Plank: Fantastic, we will see you there built to 470 00:26:52,350 --> 00:26:57,000 sell.com/marketer. Go there right now before the podcast is 471 00:26:57,000 --> 00:26:59,460 over while it's still fresh on your mind, and maybe listen to 472 00:26:59,460 --> 00:27:02,700 this podcast episode two or three times because John had so 473 00:27:02,700 --> 00:27:05,340 much information. I'm going to take that to heart, I'm going to 474 00:27:05,400 --> 00:27:08,820 write that down maybe again and again every day. Don't cross 475 00:27:08,820 --> 00:27:12,120 sell so much look into me knowing no one for one thing. 476 00:27:12,210 --> 00:27:16,140 That way you can get a buyer for your business, maybe not today 477 00:27:16,140 --> 00:27:19,650 or tomorrow. But eventually that way when your business outgrows 478 00:27:19,650 --> 00:27:22,290 you or you get bored or you want to get into bigger and better 479 00:27:22,290 --> 00:27:25,620 things, you have options, you have choices, you haven't built 480 00:27:25,650 --> 00:27:28,590 a glorified job for yourself. You can have something that 481 00:27:28,590 --> 00:27:32,970 grows without you built to sell.com/marketer. And thanks, 482 00:27:32,970 --> 00:27:36,780 John, for showing up and for helping us help us out with 483 00:27:36,780 --> 00:27:39,810 these these problems that we've had that maybe we don't even 484 00:27:39,810 --> 00:27:41,700 know about, but we need your help to solve. 485 00:27:42,330 --> 00:27:43,440 Unknown: Thanks, Rob. It's good to be with you.