1 00:00:00,719 --> 00:00:04,439 Robert Plank: marketer of the Day episode 835 Leading Teams 2 00:00:04,439 --> 00:00:07,889 effectively to grow your business with Amy Anderson. 3 00:00:14,130 --> 00:00:17,130 Welcome back to the marketer of the day podcast, we're here with 4 00:00:17,160 --> 00:00:21,840 Amy Anderson from wild coffee marketing.com. Ne is a widely 5 00:00:21,840 --> 00:00:25,710 respected and creative industry leader. And she sees the unique 6 00:00:25,740 --> 00:00:29,850 opportunity to leverage creativity to transform both 7 00:00:29,850 --> 00:00:34,020 brands and entire organizations across multiple sectors. And we 8 00:00:34,020 --> 00:00:37,020 have so much to talk about, maybe we will talk about client 9 00:00:37,020 --> 00:00:41,520 manage management's managing large teams challenges and 10 00:00:41,520 --> 00:00:44,340 balancing that pesky work and personal life who the heck knows 11 00:00:44,340 --> 00:00:45,900 what Amy, glad to be talking to you. 12 00:00:46,140 --> 00:00:47,910 Amy Anderson: Thank you so much for having me today. 13 00:00:48,150 --> 00:00:50,220 Robert Plank: I'm super glad to have you on, I'm glad we finally 14 00:00:50,220 --> 00:00:53,490 were able to connect, I think at one point you couldn't make it, 15 00:00:53,490 --> 00:00:56,520 I couldn't make it. But that is just the hectic lifestyle that 16 00:00:56,520 --> 00:01:00,150 we live in. And so what has been kind of your focus your your 17 00:01:00,150 --> 00:01:02,220 passion, the last six to nine months or so? 18 00:01:02,820 --> 00:01:04,920 Amy Anderson: Well, after recovering from COVID, which I 19 00:01:04,920 --> 00:01:08,340 think all of us had a little bit of that to do, and really sort 20 00:01:08,340 --> 00:01:11,310 of keeping things moving with our clients. We've really just 21 00:01:11,310 --> 00:01:15,570 been building our creative team. We have hired some incredible 22 00:01:15,570 --> 00:01:18,510 journalists as social media experts, which is sort of our 23 00:01:18,510 --> 00:01:22,200 new focus, and really just trying to churn out some really 24 00:01:22,200 --> 00:01:24,300 great creative work. So that we're really proud of, 25 00:01:24,839 --> 00:01:27,269 Robert Plank: well, that's exciting. And I think that I 26 00:01:27,269 --> 00:01:29,939 felt a little bit of a push myself, I hadn't, hadn't quite 27 00:01:29,969 --> 00:01:33,599 clicked until just now, that right before all the COVID kind 28 00:01:33,599 --> 00:01:36,359 of stuff happen. I was kind of moving in that direction of 29 00:01:36,359 --> 00:01:39,599 actually taking this business thing seriously. And actually 30 00:01:39,599 --> 00:01:42,629 having a team and not doing all the work myself and trying to 31 00:01:42,629 --> 00:01:45,359 scale things. And that was always a thing on my to do list 32 00:01:45,359 --> 00:01:48,209 for so many years. And I would hire like you know, one or two 33 00:01:48,209 --> 00:01:50,969 employees and to kind of dabble at it a little bit. But right 34 00:01:50,969 --> 00:01:53,759 before the pandemic started is when I started actually building 35 00:01:53,759 --> 00:01:57,719 a team, like deliberately. And then it feels like maybe when 36 00:01:57,719 --> 00:02:00,689 the pandemic ramped up there was there was all that pressure, 37 00:02:00,689 --> 00:02:04,259 right? It seemed like that, like some of the old customers were 38 00:02:04,259 --> 00:02:06,509 kind of not there anymore. And there are new people. And it's 39 00:02:06,539 --> 00:02:08,849 it felt like there was a lot of like competition with all this, 40 00:02:08,849 --> 00:02:12,299 like remote work and a lot of things to be expected. So I feel 41 00:02:12,299 --> 00:02:15,449 like just in the way that you put that it just isn't clicking, 42 00:02:15,449 --> 00:02:18,539 the pandemic kind of pushed me to take my business seriously. 43 00:02:18,539 --> 00:02:20,639 And it seems like maybe something similar happened with 44 00:02:20,639 --> 00:02:21,149 you too? 45 00:02:21,480 --> 00:02:23,760 Amy Anderson: Well, I think a lot of us were sort of impacted 46 00:02:23,760 --> 00:02:26,910 by the great shuffle, right, that's still going on with 47 00:02:26,910 --> 00:02:30,780 clients doing well, clients really in turmoil in this market 48 00:02:30,780 --> 00:02:34,110 supply chain issues, extreme growth, all of a sudden venture 49 00:02:34,110 --> 00:02:37,740 capital money is back in. So it just feels like everything is in 50 00:02:37,740 --> 00:02:41,460 movement all the time, much more so than normal, right? We're in 51 00:02:41,460 --> 00:02:45,150 a difficult hiring market, we're in a difficult growth market, 52 00:02:45,150 --> 00:02:47,970 and then some sectors are sort of taking off, and they hire us 53 00:02:47,970 --> 00:02:51,030 two months too late. And then we have to scramble to help them 54 00:02:51,030 --> 00:02:53,820 get caught up. So, you know, we've always sort of worked at a 55 00:02:53,820 --> 00:02:56,610 really fast pace. But in this market, I just feel like there's 56 00:02:56,610 --> 00:02:59,610 so much movement that everyone's trying to keep up with right 57 00:02:59,610 --> 00:03:01,890 now. And exciting. But 58 00:03:01,920 --> 00:03:03,870 Robert Plank: yeah, it's exciting, and a little bit of a 59 00:03:03,870 --> 00:03:08,520 scary, chaotic way. And I feel like, again, like I feel like 60 00:03:08,550 --> 00:03:12,570 the like the couple of clients I've gotten this year, it's been 61 00:03:12,570 --> 00:03:15,990 a similar situation where like, there's a mess to clean up. They 62 00:03:15,990 --> 00:03:19,440 don't really know what to do you at this point. And I kind of 63 00:03:19,440 --> 00:03:22,140 have get been getting this kind of repeat answer like this is 64 00:03:22,140 --> 00:03:27,150 the third or fourth attempt at that this right? So for example, 65 00:03:27,150 --> 00:03:29,850 like with you having your creative team like your writers, 66 00:03:29,910 --> 00:03:33,150 I imagine there's a lot of like, well, we tried this a year ago, 67 00:03:33,150 --> 00:03:36,330 we tried this six months ago. And finally we have Amy and the 68 00:03:36,360 --> 00:03:39,630 team helping us out. And so do you have any fun stories to 69 00:03:39,630 --> 00:03:43,050 share with us just to kind of give us an idea of the magic 70 00:03:43,050 --> 00:03:45,720 that you do the secret sauce, the kind of activities that you 71 00:03:45,720 --> 00:03:47,730 and your team perform for businesses? 72 00:03:47,760 --> 00:03:49,710 Amy Anderson: Yeah, you know, it's interesting as people, 73 00:03:50,100 --> 00:03:53,010 people ask us what type of company that we're right for a 74 00:03:53,010 --> 00:03:56,430 lot of the time and what we're finding in this year, a lot of 75 00:03:56,430 --> 00:03:59,670 times there will be a single person marketing team that's 76 00:03:59,670 --> 00:04:02,610 actually really effective, right? So it's a team of one. 77 00:04:03,180 --> 00:04:06,630 And they tend to be really strategic and implementers. But 78 00:04:06,630 --> 00:04:09,900 there's only so much they can do in this market. And repeatedly, 79 00:04:09,900 --> 00:04:12,090 we've had a really good marketing leader call and say, 80 00:04:12,090 --> 00:04:15,000 You know what, I think I've taken this as far as I can go. 81 00:04:15,330 --> 00:04:18,360 And we really have been able to augment that. And we've seen 82 00:04:18,360 --> 00:04:21,990 that twice happen. They're effective, right? But we're 83 00:04:21,990 --> 00:04:26,010 expected to go so wide and so deep with our skill sets and 84 00:04:26,010 --> 00:04:29,760 marketing and digital, right everything from SEO, PPC 85 00:04:29,760 --> 00:04:32,940 strategy, branding, strategy, content creation, video 86 00:04:32,940 --> 00:04:37,110 development, social media, I mean, it's so much that one 87 00:04:37,110 --> 00:04:41,130 person can't do all of that. They end up hiring a bunch of 88 00:04:41,130 --> 00:04:43,980 freelancers, small agencies, and then things start to get really 89 00:04:43,980 --> 00:04:47,520 disjointed. So that's really a theme that we've seen this year 90 00:04:47,520 --> 00:04:50,490 is that people are sort of getting maxed out. And rather 91 00:04:50,490 --> 00:04:52,800 than hire an agency, we're actually outsourced marketers, 92 00:04:52,800 --> 00:04:55,320 so we can sort of speak their language and being glaciated 93 00:04:55,320 --> 00:04:57,900 with the team. And we work really closely with them that 94 00:04:57,900 --> 00:04:58,260 way. 95 00:04:59,279 --> 00:05:02,009 Robert Plank: And That's interesting to think about that, 96 00:05:02,039 --> 00:05:07,919 um, that it's, I used to, like be really attentive at the the 97 00:05:07,919 --> 00:05:11,099 problem of switching gears of multitasking. And it seems like 98 00:05:11,099 --> 00:05:14,249 it was more obvious back when, like, phones were slower and 99 00:05:14,249 --> 00:05:17,219 computers were slower. And like your remember when your computer 100 00:05:17,219 --> 00:05:19,949 took like five or 10 minutes, just a start up. And for me, it 101 00:05:19,949 --> 00:05:23,459 was I was really aware of like, okay, I shouldn't be dealing 102 00:05:23,459 --> 00:05:25,979 with this client, and then answering these emails and 103 00:05:25,979 --> 00:05:28,619 posting on these message boards. But I feel like in the past, 104 00:05:28,619 --> 00:05:31,559 maybe like, five to seven years with computers and phones being 105 00:05:31,559 --> 00:05:35,159 like, so quick. And you can just click on this and use this in 106 00:05:35,159 --> 00:05:38,699 the cloud and use this app, I've had to, like remind myself that 107 00:05:38,759 --> 00:05:41,399 okay, even though the computer can run really fast, I can have 108 00:05:41,399 --> 00:05:44,879 all these tabs open and it won't slow it down. Like it still is, 109 00:05:44,969 --> 00:05:49,439 like a like death pretty much to have all these could be spread 110 00:05:49,439 --> 00:05:52,439 so thin and be trying to do everything ourselves. And I'm 111 00:05:52,439 --> 00:05:55,859 always I feel like I'm at war with like, my own ego, because 112 00:05:55,859 --> 00:05:58,439 I'm always wrestling with like, well, I could do that better. 113 00:05:58,439 --> 00:06:01,469 And I could squeeze in the time. And then I always kind of run 114 00:06:01,469 --> 00:06:05,279 across this issue of like, well, do I do I hire a team? Or hire 115 00:06:05,279 --> 00:06:08,489 someone to do this thing that I haven't done yet like this, this 116 00:06:08,489 --> 00:06:12,419 nagging problem? Or do I hire someone to like, replace a chunk 117 00:06:12,419 --> 00:06:16,019 of what I do? Or something else? And do you ever come across it? 118 00:06:16,019 --> 00:06:18,449 Do you ever come across like like that resistance of like, 119 00:06:18,509 --> 00:06:21,749 well, I'm not sure. Like, what kind of team I'm supposed to 120 00:06:21,749 --> 00:06:24,419 hire? Should I do something like replace something new or 121 00:06:24,419 --> 00:06:27,479 something existing? I mean, you come across any kind of app just 122 00:06:27,479 --> 00:06:30,509 like the the hiring uncertainty, I guess? 123 00:06:30,630 --> 00:06:32,670 Amy Anderson: Well, I think it's really hard to scale a service 124 00:06:32,670 --> 00:06:35,640 business, right? I mean, when your resources, your people, 125 00:06:35,640 --> 00:06:38,190 it's trying to understand the exact skill set that you have. 126 00:06:38,190 --> 00:06:40,320 And we're having a little bit of that go on right now with 127 00:06:40,320 --> 00:06:42,780 respect to project management, because just what you're talking 128 00:06:42,780 --> 00:06:47,190 about, right? People at Wild coffee, where a lot of hats, 129 00:06:47,580 --> 00:06:50,850 they're doing the thinking and the strategy there managing 130 00:06:50,850 --> 00:06:54,420 clients and those relationships, they are doing some of the work, 131 00:06:54,450 --> 00:06:57,390 and they're also project managing. So it is so much of 132 00:06:57,390 --> 00:07:01,020 what piece of that do you sort of pull back and specialize in a 133 00:07:01,020 --> 00:07:03,900 specialized skill set. So it's really sort of narrowing it down 134 00:07:03,900 --> 00:07:07,020 to a skill set that you know, that you can find, and a really 135 00:07:07,020 --> 00:07:10,260 good person who excels at that. But you don't want to do, right, 136 00:07:10,260 --> 00:07:13,470 do you time block and sort of set time aside to try to focus 137 00:07:13,470 --> 00:07:14,310 on one thing? 138 00:07:15,420 --> 00:07:18,570 Robert Plank: I mean, I do but not as often as I should. It's 139 00:07:18,570 --> 00:07:21,870 always like putting out fires. But then again, it's like one of 140 00:07:21,870 --> 00:07:24,180 those reminders like I forget about I'm like, Oh yeah, I 141 00:07:24,180 --> 00:07:26,820 should be just like scheduling the free time, I should be 142 00:07:26,820 --> 00:07:30,240 scheduling the time to think because if you're just trying to 143 00:07:30,240 --> 00:07:32,460 squeeze it in in like five minutes and 10 minutes, they're 144 00:07:32,460 --> 00:07:34,740 like, that's not going to work that's not going to be 145 00:07:34,740 --> 00:07:37,920 consistent. And, and what you're reminding me there is like, 146 00:07:37,950 --> 00:07:40,200 again, this I feel like this is like just a reminder call, 147 00:07:40,200 --> 00:07:43,080 right? All of those, like really simple things that were were so 148 00:07:43,080 --> 00:07:45,120 simple, and it works so well. It's easy to forget, there's 149 00:07:45,120 --> 00:07:47,850 always like that, but enough issue, right of like, well, you 150 00:07:47,850 --> 00:07:51,300 need to have like the the worker and the manager and then the 151 00:07:51,300 --> 00:07:53,910 person with the commands. And even above that even like kind 152 00:07:53,910 --> 00:07:57,780 of the strategy. So that way, each person only performs one 153 00:07:57,780 --> 00:08:00,930 task. And there's not like all those switching gears. And it's 154 00:08:00,930 --> 00:08:03,660 a it's a helpful reminder, I feel like I need to hear this 155 00:08:03,660 --> 00:08:06,690 like almost every day, if not more often, like stop switching 156 00:08:06,690 --> 00:08:09,960 gears stop trying to wear all the hats only do the one thing 157 00:08:09,960 --> 00:08:11,850 because there's these different skill sets. And it feels like 158 00:08:11,850 --> 00:08:14,460 even as you're describing this, like switching between the 159 00:08:14,550 --> 00:08:17,280 project managing and the client relationships and doing the work 160 00:08:17,280 --> 00:08:19,680 and the strategy, like it's going to eat up all the time, 161 00:08:19,680 --> 00:08:21,810 like you won't have any time left in the day, because you're 162 00:08:21,810 --> 00:08:24,030 always like trying to switch gears, it feels like 163 00:08:24,090 --> 00:08:26,460 Amy Anderson: Well, I tried a time block. I mean, I lead a 20 164 00:08:26,460 --> 00:08:30,090 person company with my business partner and I can still block 165 00:08:30,240 --> 00:08:33,540 two hours, maybe three days in advance if I know I have writing 166 00:08:33,540 --> 00:08:37,350 to do if I know I have a strategy to do if I'm working on 167 00:08:37,350 --> 00:08:41,250 new business development. If I'm doing a pitch or an RFP, I think 168 00:08:41,250 --> 00:08:44,310 that's really critical. The other is clarity breaks. And 169 00:08:44,310 --> 00:08:47,190 it's something that we really try to encourage people to do 170 00:08:47,190 --> 00:08:50,760 during the day I'm a team is just to get up and walk. Take a 171 00:08:50,760 --> 00:08:54,990 moment, read an article read part of a book and really just 172 00:08:54,990 --> 00:08:58,890 sort of stopped being in this doing phase all the time, and 173 00:08:58,890 --> 00:09:02,940 being a little bit more of a still in a silent space to just 174 00:09:02,940 --> 00:09:05,790 clear your head. So I walked dogs during the day. I know 175 00:09:05,790 --> 00:09:08,160 other team members do too. And I think it's important to step 176 00:09:08,160 --> 00:09:09,660 away a little bit during the day. 177 00:09:10,500 --> 00:09:12,810 Robert Plank: You're so right I get again, this is the thing 178 00:09:12,810 --> 00:09:16,710 that I have gotten away from I used to have such a good morning 179 00:09:16,710 --> 00:09:19,860 routine of I'd wake up and even if I had pressing things to do, 180 00:09:19,860 --> 00:09:22,350 I'd wake up right around when the sun came up and I take like 181 00:09:22,350 --> 00:09:26,190 an hour long walk and I'd feel so good afterwards. And lately 182 00:09:26,280 --> 00:09:32,190 honestly, Amy these days, I've got a new baby so the time thank 183 00:09:32,190 --> 00:09:34,740 you very much in that the time was more kind of compressed and 184 00:09:34,740 --> 00:09:37,980 sometimes I feel like I sometimes have to jump in just 185 00:09:38,040 --> 00:09:41,640 wherever I can squeeze the time, like if it's nap time or freeze 186 00:09:41,640 --> 00:09:45,930 not awake yet or if he's gone to bed, but I do feel like that 187 00:09:45,960 --> 00:09:48,360 something that maybe I've overcome these last couple of 188 00:09:48,390 --> 00:09:53,220 years is just the just doing the task anyway right? Even if I 189 00:09:53,250 --> 00:09:56,850 don't feel like doing it and it could be even doing the client 190 00:09:56,850 --> 00:10:00,510 work or even like the time blocking or the clarity locking, 191 00:10:00,510 --> 00:10:03,600 like you're mentioning here, even if the appointment rolls 192 00:10:03,600 --> 00:10:06,960 around, and it's 8am. And I've got this thing on the calendar 193 00:10:06,960 --> 00:10:08,970 such as even like a podcast interview like this, but 194 00:10:08,970 --> 00:10:12,420 something on the calendar, back in the old days, I would think 195 00:10:12,450 --> 00:10:14,850 you know what, I don't feel like doing it, I'll push this 196 00:10:14,850 --> 00:10:17,910 appointment off, it can slip it. But these days, I'm, I'm 197 00:10:17,910 --> 00:10:22,650 thinking to myself, I don't know when I will have time later. And 198 00:10:22,680 --> 00:10:26,190 I know I kind of don't feel like doing this task. But I maybe 199 00:10:26,190 --> 00:10:30,210 feel like 60% Like, I feel like doing this task. And maybe in 200 00:10:30,210 --> 00:10:32,880 the future, I might only feel like 10 or 20% worth of doing 201 00:10:32,880 --> 00:10:36,000 this task. So you mentioning, you know, time blocking in this 202 00:10:36,000 --> 00:10:39,900 time management thing. And like, that's something that I recently 203 00:10:39,900 --> 00:10:43,680 had to remind myself is, even if I don't fully feel like doing 204 00:10:43,680 --> 00:10:46,590 the thing, it's on the calendar, I need to do it anyway, whether 205 00:10:46,590 --> 00:10:49,230 it's time blocking or something, or like, you know, sitting in 206 00:10:49,230 --> 00:10:50,760 strategizing or something else. 207 00:10:50,820 --> 00:10:52,800 Amy Anderson: Well, I love that it holds you accountable to have 208 00:10:52,800 --> 00:10:55,800 it on the calendar, and then you're anticipating it for a few 209 00:10:55,800 --> 00:10:59,940 days. Right. So I knew this morning that I was going to be 210 00:10:59,970 --> 00:11:03,630 working on some strategy for a client. I geared up for that 211 00:11:03,630 --> 00:11:06,780 time. And then I you know, I just got it done. And and I 212 00:11:06,780 --> 00:11:09,540 think that the calendar really helps you anticipate and hold 213 00:11:09,600 --> 00:11:11,340 yourself accountable. You know? 214 00:11:11,910 --> 00:11:14,310 Robert Plank: Yeah, so So what are we missing here? Like we've 215 00:11:14,310 --> 00:11:17,880 kind of talked about, like how people need to not do everything 216 00:11:18,510 --> 00:11:21,330 themselves. And I mean, that's a problem I have, I'm sure it's a 217 00:11:21,330 --> 00:11:24,000 problem that you have, to some extent. And we're always getting 218 00:11:24,000 --> 00:11:26,640 better, but it's at least good to have awareness. And we making 219 00:11:26,640 --> 00:11:29,340 progress on that. We talked a little bit about like time 220 00:11:29,340 --> 00:11:32,910 management and calendaring. So far, what's really missing? What 221 00:11:32,910 --> 00:11:36,210 are people missing the boat on as far as like their business or 222 00:11:36,210 --> 00:11:39,360 marketing or time management or just like, you know, what's not 223 00:11:39,360 --> 00:11:40,770 being discussed enough 224 00:11:41,010 --> 00:11:45,120 Amy Anderson: strategy. I see a lot of times people will just 225 00:11:45,120 --> 00:11:48,330 sort of start diving in and marketing and getting into this 226 00:11:48,330 --> 00:11:51,900 sort of implementation of all of these tasks without really 227 00:11:51,900 --> 00:11:55,740 sitting down. And you know, developing customer personas, 228 00:11:55,860 --> 00:11:59,280 empathy maps, really getting into the hearts and minds of 229 00:11:59,280 --> 00:12:03,030 your consumer. Really understanding I don't think we 230 00:12:03,030 --> 00:12:05,670 can plan in year increments anymore. Robert Wright member we 231 00:12:05,670 --> 00:12:08,490 used to do like one year plan 18 month plans, and we sort of 232 00:12:08,490 --> 00:12:12,210 laugh at that now. It never works out did it? No, we may 233 00:12:12,210 --> 00:12:15,330 have a little bit, you know, in the early 2000s, but certainly 234 00:12:15,330 --> 00:12:19,770 not now. So really to look at a quarter to look at your core 235 00:12:19,770 --> 00:12:22,920 strategy for that quarter, six month period and not just start 236 00:12:22,920 --> 00:12:26,940 doing people will start posting and creating and buying ads and 237 00:12:26,940 --> 00:12:29,790 all of that without a really sound strategy. And we have to 238 00:12:29,790 --> 00:12:33,630 make people stop and think and tie it into the core business 239 00:12:33,630 --> 00:12:36,570 objectives and sit in executive meetings with our clients who 240 00:12:36,570 --> 00:12:40,290 really understand how marketing is impacting all of that. So I 241 00:12:40,290 --> 00:12:44,700 think a lot of it is just to really think before you do. And 242 00:12:44,730 --> 00:12:47,100 a lot of times we have to sort of reverse engineer and start 243 00:12:47,100 --> 00:12:50,550 over for clients in a turnaround situation, or when we're sort of 244 00:12:50,550 --> 00:12:52,170 starting an engagement in that way. 245 00:12:53,160 --> 00:12:56,460 Robert Plank: And that hits me really hard because again, 246 00:12:56,460 --> 00:13:00,540 thinking about like my own kind of like hiccups last year. And 247 00:13:00,540 --> 00:13:03,180 like kind of where we're at with some of these clients coming in, 248 00:13:03,300 --> 00:13:06,300 you hear a lot about it's all it's always stated in different 249 00:13:06,300 --> 00:13:08,040 terms, but there's like the throwing of the ball and 250 00:13:08,040 --> 00:13:11,100 catching the ball, right? And so like you mentioned, like buying 251 00:13:11,100 --> 00:13:14,130 ads, for example, or posting content. And it's really easy. 252 00:13:14,160 --> 00:13:16,380 It's really easy to throw some balls, right? Who cares where 253 00:13:16,380 --> 00:13:19,410 they end up, and I'll post some stuff, we'll make some ads, and 254 00:13:19,410 --> 00:13:22,140 then it sits there. And then days later or weeks later, you 255 00:13:22,140 --> 00:13:25,200 say, oh, yeah, what about that Facebook get around? Oh, looks 256 00:13:25,200 --> 00:13:27,960 like it got no clicks, I guess I guess I'll put that aside. And 257 00:13:27,960 --> 00:13:30,900 then it becomes at least for me, it becomes like something I 258 00:13:30,900 --> 00:13:34,680 dread. Because it's something that I failed at? Well, I didn't 259 00:13:34,680 --> 00:13:37,350 really feel that I just didn't follow through, right? What 260 00:13:37,350 --> 00:13:40,800 didn't do something complete with it. And then and yeah, and 261 00:13:40,800 --> 00:13:43,620 it's like, there's so many situations where there's, you 262 00:13:43,620 --> 00:13:47,310 know, like, like out LinkedIn or cold email outreach or something 263 00:13:47,310 --> 00:13:49,650 where there needs to be like, not just putting things out 264 00:13:49,650 --> 00:13:52,200 there. But then having a strategy, as you said, and like 265 00:13:52,200 --> 00:13:55,860 coming back to it. And something that I I realized maybe just 266 00:13:55,860 --> 00:13:58,860 this morning that I haven't been doing enough of his like, is 267 00:13:58,860 --> 00:14:01,440 writing things down. Because when I write things down, I'm 268 00:14:01,440 --> 00:14:04,320 thinking like, oh, and even make like an SOP or like Google 269 00:14:04,320 --> 00:14:07,860 document screenshot. And the thing that again, we're having 270 00:14:07,860 --> 00:14:09,750 this conversation, you're sparking up all these reminders 271 00:14:09,750 --> 00:14:12,930 for me is like, I haven't been like journaling, right? Just 272 00:14:12,930 --> 00:14:16,530 saying like today's date, here's what I'm thinking about, here's 273 00:14:16,530 --> 00:14:19,980 what I'm doing. And then maybe even possibly cleaning out up 274 00:14:19,980 --> 00:14:22,410 later and going back and saying like, Oh, yeah, on Tuesday, I 275 00:14:22,410 --> 00:14:26,100 did this and this and maybe like organizing it later, or should 276 00:14:26,100 --> 00:14:29,400 be handing it off to someone else to organize it later. 277 00:14:29,400 --> 00:14:32,670 Right? And so it kind of makes me think, okay, like, where's 278 00:14:32,670 --> 00:14:35,670 the line? Like, where do we say, well, I need to be more 279 00:14:35,670 --> 00:14:38,220 organized. And I need a better system. And I need to do this 280 00:14:38,220 --> 00:14:42,030 and this versus like handing handing it off to a team such as 281 00:14:42,090 --> 00:14:45,630 as yours, like, at what point what things are like a black box 282 00:14:45,630 --> 00:14:48,330 that someone else should do. And what else is something that like 283 00:14:48,360 --> 00:14:49,710 I should fix? Do you think right? 284 00:14:49,710 --> 00:14:51,510 Amy Anderson: Well, that's sort of it's sort of the outsourcing 285 00:14:51,510 --> 00:14:55,380 model, right? Is it better to keep your marketing in house? Is 286 00:14:55,380 --> 00:14:57,570 it better to outsource it? Or is it better to hand it to an 287 00:14:57,570 --> 00:15:00,930 agency and we're not an agency because we're We are actually 288 00:15:00,930 --> 00:15:04,830 sort of client side marketers who run our own agency. So it's 289 00:15:04,830 --> 00:15:09,390 really understanding sort of the cost structure of that, and how 290 00:15:09,420 --> 00:15:12,600 much you are actually capable of doing in house. And where does 291 00:15:12,600 --> 00:15:16,320 it make sense to delegate and and handoff, a lot of our client 292 00:15:16,320 --> 00:15:20,100 engagements have been two and three years long. Where will it 293 00:15:20,100 --> 00:15:24,270 is possible to run marketing for a company and not be a full time 294 00:15:24,270 --> 00:15:27,000 employee of the company, it just depends on how you sort of 295 00:15:27,000 --> 00:15:29,790 approach that. When we put engagements together, we're 296 00:15:29,790 --> 00:15:32,250 actually looking at what percentage of what person's time 297 00:15:32,250 --> 00:15:35,250 and what skill sets and we'll build a team. So you may have a 298 00:15:35,250 --> 00:15:38,280 team of four people, you may have a team of seven people, and 299 00:15:38,280 --> 00:15:42,000 then we have a very flexible scope, right? So that so much 300 00:15:42,000 --> 00:15:45,720 comes up in marketing, and we're very opportunistic, we end up 301 00:15:45,780 --> 00:15:48,780 creating work for ourselves, a lot of the times just say, Oh, 302 00:15:48,780 --> 00:15:52,980 we do ideation sessions, prom season is coming in the spring. 303 00:15:53,010 --> 00:15:56,100 So we're already thinking about that. And we work with a formal 304 00:15:56,100 --> 00:15:59,280 wear client with 100 tuxedo rental locations in the middle 305 00:15:59,280 --> 00:16:02,910 quarter of the US. So already, we're starting to do ideation on 306 00:16:02,910 --> 00:16:07,560 tick tock Snapchat, reaching out to influencers. And so we're 307 00:16:07,560 --> 00:16:11,310 able to sort of plan and execute full marketing programs and 308 00:16:11,310 --> 00:16:14,910 strategies without being full time employees of a company. And 309 00:16:14,910 --> 00:16:17,130 this is the white space we saw in the market, right? That it 310 00:16:17,130 --> 00:16:19,710 doesn't have to be all in house. And it doesn't have to be an 311 00:16:19,710 --> 00:16:22,830 expensive, expensive agency model, it can be the strategist 312 00:16:22,830 --> 00:16:25,530 and the marketers who are actually implementing the work. 313 00:16:26,370 --> 00:16:28,410 Robert Plank: And you hear about that a lot more these days with 314 00:16:28,410 --> 00:16:31,920 like things like a fractional CMO, or with remote work are all 315 00:16:31,980 --> 00:16:35,700 kind of doing the work and the time that they want to do it. 316 00:16:35,880 --> 00:16:39,630 And also, your your answers here remind me of just how important 317 00:16:39,630 --> 00:16:42,960 it is to plan ahead, which again, seems like really, it's 318 00:16:42,960 --> 00:16:46,290 such common sense advice that people don't follow that, but 319 00:16:46,290 --> 00:16:49,440 like, you hear that a lot in like in E commerce, right, they 320 00:16:49,440 --> 00:16:54,630 plan for like the busy q4 season during q3 Or the people who make 321 00:16:54,660 --> 00:16:57,360 who like generate content sites and things like that. They're 322 00:16:57,360 --> 00:16:59,970 writing their Halloween content in the summer. And you know, 323 00:16:59,970 --> 00:17:02,430 they're writing their, their Christmas content in September 324 00:17:02,430 --> 00:17:05,910 and all that because if you wait until the time when you need to 325 00:17:05,910 --> 00:17:08,610 do it, it's already too late. Everyone's already like listed 326 00:17:08,610 --> 00:17:11,670 on Google or got the got the traffic or the links or any of 327 00:17:11,670 --> 00:17:14,100 that stuff. So that's just like, in general, a good idea, right? 328 00:17:14,130 --> 00:17:17,940 Just see if you can plan for something months ahead of time, 329 00:17:17,940 --> 00:17:21,030 that way you start the work now. Yeah, you hire the team, you do 330 00:17:21,030 --> 00:17:23,880 the interviews and all that. And then they're kind of debug the 331 00:17:23,880 --> 00:17:27,030 system. So that way, when you actually need it, it's already 332 00:17:27,030 --> 00:17:29,910 done. So that's a good just lesson in general. And so you 333 00:17:29,910 --> 00:17:33,120 kind of dropped in some of these kind of fun, a little a few like 334 00:17:33,120 --> 00:17:36,330 fun, kind of interesting, you know, client stories and success 335 00:17:36,330 --> 00:17:39,840 stories and things like that, like what would you say, makes 336 00:17:40,050 --> 00:17:42,090 you and your team unique? Like you've talked about, you know, 337 00:17:42,090 --> 00:17:44,340 but building a team, you do all these things differently, but 338 00:17:44,400 --> 00:17:48,330 like, how are you unique versus like someone else that we might 339 00:17:48,330 --> 00:17:48,840 go with? 340 00:17:49,290 --> 00:17:52,230 Amy Anderson: Well, we're actually client side marketers, 341 00:17:52,260 --> 00:17:56,190 the senior consultants who run the business, have actually been 342 00:17:56,190 --> 00:18:00,480 VPS, of marketing, CMOs at companies. And so they have are 343 00:18:00,480 --> 00:18:04,380 used to developing strategies and running marketing teams on 344 00:18:04,380 --> 00:18:09,360 the client side. So what they are now is just the CMO or the 345 00:18:09,360 --> 00:18:11,610 VP of Marketing for four different clients at the same 346 00:18:11,610 --> 00:18:15,750 time. So that's that fractional cmo model that you mentioned. 347 00:18:15,750 --> 00:18:19,320 And that's what we run, we don't just develop a strategy and give 348 00:18:19,320 --> 00:18:22,500 you a beautiful deck and say goodbye, then we say, okay, are 349 00:18:22,500 --> 00:18:25,290 we in alignment on the strategy, and then we actually have our 350 00:18:25,290 --> 00:18:29,760 own in house agency that implements that strategy, right, 351 00:18:29,760 --> 00:18:31,740 typically, you would just get the implementation piece of the 352 00:18:31,740 --> 00:18:34,800 creative, or you might just get the advisory services of a 353 00:18:34,800 --> 00:18:38,970 consulting firm. With us, it's all built into one. So we 354 00:18:38,970 --> 00:18:42,450 believe that every company, even small, maybe even three or four 355 00:18:42,450 --> 00:18:45,990 people may need cmo services, because you have to have that 356 00:18:45,990 --> 00:18:49,590 strategy before you just start doing the differences that you 357 00:18:49,590 --> 00:18:52,170 don't need us all the time. Right? If you're a smaller 358 00:18:52,170 --> 00:18:56,100 company, you can't afford or have a CMO on full time. But 359 00:18:56,100 --> 00:18:58,380 when you do that fractional service, you get access to the 360 00:18:58,380 --> 00:19:01,050 strategy, and then the implementation. And we're 361 00:19:01,050 --> 00:19:04,200 actually using our own model, we just hired a fractional CFO. 362 00:19:05,010 --> 00:19:07,890 Makes perfect sense. We don't we don't have a high transaction 363 00:19:07,890 --> 00:19:10,800 business. So we don't need them there full time. But we need the 364 00:19:10,800 --> 00:19:14,490 forecasting, you know, balance sheet work, right ability to 365 00:19:14,490 --> 00:19:17,580 really understand our gross profit margin. So he's with us 366 00:19:17,580 --> 00:19:20,370 just not every day. So I'm glad to see that we're practicing 367 00:19:20,370 --> 00:19:22,950 that model sort of in other sector segments. 368 00:19:23,400 --> 00:19:26,160 Robert Plank: You would hope so right. What's the point in 369 00:19:26,160 --> 00:19:29,340 having that this innovative thing if you yourself are not 370 00:19:29,340 --> 00:19:32,790 doing it? We're walking our talk, right? Yeah, you might as 371 00:19:32,790 --> 00:19:35,940 well and and even just a little bit of your kind of your thought 372 00:19:35,940 --> 00:19:38,550 process there. Like I think that, like you said, like it's 373 00:19:38,550 --> 00:19:41,670 very much needed, and it kind of fills a gap there. And like a 374 00:19:41,670 --> 00:19:45,360 big change in my thinking at some point was, well, I'm only 375 00:19:45,420 --> 00:19:49,620 I'm going to decide ahead of time how much time I'll devote 376 00:19:49,620 --> 00:19:51,930 to making this thing work. Because there's always that 377 00:19:51,930 --> 00:19:55,500 hesitation of like, Well, should I hire this person or should I 378 00:19:55,590 --> 00:19:58,440 buy this this kind of high ticket monthly software, or 379 00:19:58,440 --> 00:20:00,690 should I pay these ads and there's always Just kind of a 380 00:20:00,690 --> 00:20:03,930 hesitation of like, well, I need to save up for that, or I need 381 00:20:03,930 --> 00:20:07,140 to carve out something in the budget every single month. And, 382 00:20:07,290 --> 00:20:10,410 and at some point, I was just like, well, I'll give myself 383 00:20:10,410 --> 00:20:13,590 three months for this new project for like this Etsy sort 384 00:20:13,590 --> 00:20:18,030 of work or I'll give myself six months for this podcast editor 385 00:20:18,030 --> 00:20:20,160 or something like that. And like that, that's helped me so much. 386 00:20:20,160 --> 00:20:23,400 And I'm hearing a little bit of that in your your answers here 387 00:20:23,400 --> 00:20:27,210 in that we you might only need to hire out for like this chunk 388 00:20:27,210 --> 00:20:29,820 of time for the strategy. Or you might only need to hire out for 389 00:20:29,820 --> 00:20:32,970 like the these handful of people for this number of hours per 390 00:20:32,970 --> 00:20:36,510 week. And so kind of like along those lines, has their like, 391 00:20:36,510 --> 00:20:40,350 what kind of resistance has there been for people using you 392 00:20:40,350 --> 00:20:41,760 and your team, because we mentioned a little bit about 393 00:20:41,760 --> 00:20:45,480 like the outsourcing kind of hesitation. But when you say we 394 00:20:45,510 --> 00:20:49,620 need a strategy, we do this things, what kind of objections 395 00:20:49,620 --> 00:20:53,220 have you come across from people who are like they need what you 396 00:20:53,220 --> 00:20:55,410 provide, but they haven't quite pulled the trigger? 397 00:20:55,710 --> 00:20:59,310 Amy Anderson: Well, we have learned that if an executive 398 00:20:59,310 --> 00:21:03,990 team has been successful, without a significant amount of 399 00:21:03,990 --> 00:21:07,410 time and budget dedicated to marketing, it is difficult to 400 00:21:07,410 --> 00:21:10,260 convince them that they can accelerate their business even 401 00:21:10,260 --> 00:21:15,180 further by deploying it. Right? If you don't really believe in 402 00:21:15,180 --> 00:21:19,920 what we do, and that brands have value, and that customer centric 403 00:21:19,920 --> 00:21:22,980 communications are really important, delivering the right 404 00:21:22,980 --> 00:21:25,440 message to the right person at the right time in the right way, 405 00:21:25,770 --> 00:21:29,970 about the equity of your brand and how it increases the value 406 00:21:29,970 --> 00:21:33,990 of your company. I cannot convince you that that is very 407 00:21:33,990 --> 00:21:37,110 important. And we've been in that scenario just one time. But 408 00:21:37,110 --> 00:21:39,300 that was sort of eye opening for me as I was thinking, well, 409 00:21:39,300 --> 00:21:42,450 everybody believes in marketing. I mean, this is an industry that 410 00:21:42,450 --> 00:21:46,410 is vibrant and growing. And we have so much data to support the 411 00:21:46,410 --> 00:21:49,470 value that we bring. But really, if an executive team, if they're 412 00:21:49,470 --> 00:21:51,990 like, look, we've we've gotten this far without it, it's really 413 00:21:51,990 --> 00:21:54,540 hard to convince them that they need it. 414 00:21:55,800 --> 00:21:58,530 Robert Plank: And so I mean, like you are I can't convince 415 00:21:58,530 --> 00:22:00,270 someone like that. But what should they do? Should they be 416 00:22:00,270 --> 00:22:02,790 like going back? And like looking at the marketing 417 00:22:02,790 --> 00:22:06,570 principles? Or like if someone says, Well, I've lucked out up 418 00:22:06,570 --> 00:22:09,330 to this point are I've done something magical? And I'm not 419 00:22:09,330 --> 00:22:12,810 sure how long the gravy train will last? What should people be 420 00:22:12,810 --> 00:22:15,570 doing? Should they just be getting more education or wait 421 00:22:15,570 --> 00:22:18,960 until things get bad like, or do we just ignore that segment of 422 00:22:18,960 --> 00:22:19,740 the marketplace, 423 00:22:19,770 --> 00:22:21,540 Amy Anderson: I think that that's just somebody you know, 424 00:22:21,540 --> 00:22:24,960 we say that that that typically is not going to work, typically 425 00:22:24,960 --> 00:22:27,600 what they'll do is hire a junior marketing person who gets a 426 00:22:27,600 --> 00:22:30,570 little bit of graphic design and some things posted on a website. 427 00:22:31,050 --> 00:22:33,660 Right. And that's sort of how they it's almost like being in a 428 00:22:33,660 --> 00:22:36,750 plane at the top of the clouds, you can't change the altitude, 429 00:22:36,750 --> 00:22:39,000 and you're just sort of bumping along there. And they continue 430 00:22:39,000 --> 00:22:41,340 to bump along there. And they may have growth because they 431 00:22:41,340 --> 00:22:44,250 have a strong sales team. They may have a product that's super 432 00:22:44,250 --> 00:22:47,100 viable in a market and they survive that way, you know, but 433 00:22:47,100 --> 00:22:49,920 if you don't really sort of believe in that, we have a 434 00:22:49,950 --> 00:22:53,070 client that was just named one of the top fintechs to watch in 435 00:22:53,070 --> 00:22:56,820 Miami, and they wholeheartedly believe that their growth is 436 00:22:56,820 --> 00:23:00,180 coming from the pipeline that we are creating for their FinTech, 437 00:23:00,210 --> 00:23:03,630 right, we're doing a ton of inbound marketing, they really 438 00:23:03,630 --> 00:23:08,790 value and watch over their brand. Lots of video, full 439 00:23:08,790 --> 00:23:11,700 Salesforce deployment. So that's just sort of a very rich 440 00:23:11,700 --> 00:23:15,000 environment of growth of an early stage company with a CEO 441 00:23:15,000 --> 00:23:18,540 who's super sharp and gets it. So that was another case, right? 442 00:23:18,540 --> 00:23:21,660 Where they had a really strong one person team who was trying 443 00:23:21,660 --> 00:23:23,970 to sort of outsource and hire freelancers. And it was really 444 00:23:23,970 --> 00:23:26,880 hard for her to keep it together and, and really develop the 445 00:23:26,880 --> 00:23:31,290 growth and we came in and have a pretty full engagement with them 446 00:23:31,320 --> 00:23:33,840 with a person I think we have nine people on our team working 447 00:23:33,840 --> 00:23:35,790 on that account at any given time. So 448 00:23:36,600 --> 00:23:39,240 Robert Plank: and so when you're explaining some of these 449 00:23:39,240 --> 00:23:42,450 people's situations, it kind of brings to mind how you mentioned 450 00:23:42,450 --> 00:23:45,510 earlier about this whole thing with marketing is there's the 451 00:23:45,510 --> 00:23:47,910 right this the right this the right this right that the right 452 00:23:47,910 --> 00:23:50,970 problem the right person, right time. And so for for many 453 00:23:50,970 --> 00:23:53,970 people, it might just not be the right time yet. And you're kind 454 00:23:53,970 --> 00:23:57,060 of reminded me of the whole like whole like that idea of like 455 00:23:57,090 --> 00:24:00,270 with the funnel and you have like just a ton of people like 456 00:24:00,300 --> 00:24:03,180 in your with your reach and with your list that they're just 457 00:24:03,180 --> 00:24:06,150 they're not quite ready yet, right? The problem isn't quite 458 00:24:06,150 --> 00:24:10,920 bad enough where they haven't been weeded out by recession or 459 00:24:10,920 --> 00:24:14,280 a pandemic or some up ending in their industry. So maybe things 460 00:24:14,310 --> 00:24:17,580 are good, but if things start slipping or things maybe could 461 00:24:17,580 --> 00:24:21,030 be better, if they're tired of the same old stuff, if they want 462 00:24:21,030 --> 00:24:23,640 something new if they don't like the whole like limping along 463 00:24:23,640 --> 00:24:27,390 feeling, then maybe it is time for them to pull the trigger and 464 00:24:27,390 --> 00:24:30,630 talk to you and your company and figure out some strategy figure 465 00:24:30,630 --> 00:24:33,270 out some marketing figure out all these things that they know 466 00:24:33,270 --> 00:24:36,030 they should be doing, but And imagine if they combined it with 467 00:24:36,090 --> 00:24:39,390 the magic they have now with actually some being deliberate 468 00:24:39,390 --> 00:24:40,980 and having a real plan. Right, 469 00:24:41,040 --> 00:24:43,260 Amy Anderson: right. Well, you say funnel and I get really 470 00:24:43,260 --> 00:24:46,410 excited. So it's like the marketing dork and me that can 471 00:24:46,410 --> 00:24:49,740 not hold back. I was actually mentoring some entrepreneurship 472 00:24:49,980 --> 00:24:55,020 students this week, and one of them commented, gosh, you really 473 00:24:55,020 --> 00:24:57,690 love what you do. And I think I get really spazzy and excited 474 00:24:57,690 --> 00:25:01,140 when you mentioned things like funnel but I think A company's 475 00:25:01,140 --> 00:25:04,290 own database is the most valuable asset they have. Even 476 00:25:04,290 --> 00:25:07,320 if you have leads in there that are what we would consider cold, 477 00:25:07,320 --> 00:25:09,900 right, that's usually they haven't opened an email from you 478 00:25:09,900 --> 00:25:12,660 and More than three months, I think it's really important to 479 00:25:12,660 --> 00:25:16,320 stay top of mind with content that is useful, maybe even 480 00:25:16,320 --> 00:25:19,440 entertaining once in a while, so that they just know you're 481 00:25:19,440 --> 00:25:22,200 there. And then to really segment the rest of the database 482 00:25:22,200 --> 00:25:24,930 according to have they transacted with you once have 483 00:25:24,930 --> 00:25:27,990 they interacted with you at all. And that's the beauty of all 484 00:25:27,990 --> 00:25:30,450 these systems that we have now to deliver the right message to 485 00:25:30,450 --> 00:25:32,700 the right person at the right time. Because ultimately, 486 00:25:32,700 --> 00:25:36,330 marketing is very simple. It is, you know, who are you saying 487 00:25:36,330 --> 00:25:40,920 what to and when you know that, what are you saying to whom, you 488 00:25:40,920 --> 00:25:44,100 know, and so when you really sort of break it down simply, 489 00:25:44,790 --> 00:25:48,750 there, I just saw an Adobe cloud commercial today on YouTube. And 490 00:25:48,750 --> 00:25:51,240 it was a guy running into a conference room. So I just got 491 00:25:51,240 --> 00:25:54,120 an irrelevant, the 14th Irrelevant email from a sales 492 00:25:54,120 --> 00:25:57,930 rep and he has just what I need. And this extreme sarcasm about 493 00:25:57,930 --> 00:26:00,630 just not getting something that's useful to you over and 494 00:26:00,630 --> 00:26:03,600 over from a sales rep via email, I think it's really important to 495 00:26:03,600 --> 00:26:06,120 sort of look at the funnel segment and develop really good 496 00:26:06,120 --> 00:26:08,970 content. And sometimes it's simple, right? It's a text based 497 00:26:08,970 --> 00:26:11,460 email, it doesn't have to be fancy, and you don't it doesn't 498 00:26:11,460 --> 00:26:14,250 have to contain video, in all cases, not at all, 499 00:26:14,670 --> 00:26:16,590 Robert Plank: what you're speaking my language and that 500 00:26:16,800 --> 00:26:21,150 for so many years, I got so just overwhelmed, stressed out about 501 00:26:21,150 --> 00:26:23,400 all the things I should be doing, right? Like, Well, you 502 00:26:23,400 --> 00:26:26,760 shouldn't be having a a one time offer and an upsell, it should 503 00:26:26,760 --> 00:26:29,220 have this whole email sequence. And, and I mean, I know that 504 00:26:29,220 --> 00:26:31,680 there's, for all of us, there's like a long list of things that 505 00:26:31,680 --> 00:26:35,130 we should be doing right. And I think I myself, I know, I'm a 506 00:26:35,130 --> 00:26:39,120 big candidate for someone that just like, there's like 25 507 00:26:39,120 --> 00:26:42,000 things, at least that I know I should be doing. But at one 508 00:26:42,000 --> 00:26:44,490 point, I stopped stressing out about the UPS only thing and I 509 00:26:44,490 --> 00:26:47,520 was like, well, maybe a more short term thing is just to 510 00:26:47,520 --> 00:26:51,720 like, send some more emails instead. And, and I was stressed 511 00:26:51,720 --> 00:26:54,630 out about, you know, like tagging leads and sending them 512 00:26:54,630 --> 00:26:57,120 off on this branch. And at one point, I thought, you know, why 513 00:26:57,120 --> 00:27:01,950 don't I just lead score my leads and just look at the top, like, 514 00:27:01,950 --> 00:27:04,140 you know, the top lead score people for this week, and just 515 00:27:04,140 --> 00:27:06,960 kind of go after them manually, or kind of like you said, like, 516 00:27:07,050 --> 00:27:10,050 figure out different queries, different views and say, Well, 517 00:27:10,080 --> 00:27:13,950 who has bought from me once who hasn't bought in a year, maybe I 518 00:27:13,950 --> 00:27:17,040 can get that person to buy from me, like more recently or twice 519 00:27:17,040 --> 00:27:20,010 or just like something to move the needle forward. And like 520 00:27:20,010 --> 00:27:22,470 sometimes you hear about I think it was like Dan Kennedy or 521 00:27:22,470 --> 00:27:24,900 someone who was saying, like, just do a couple of things per 522 00:27:24,900 --> 00:27:28,290 day, like just drop this letter in the mail per day, just, you 523 00:27:28,290 --> 00:27:31,530 know, send this one message to this employee per day. And like 524 00:27:31,530 --> 00:27:33,570 that was really helpful. And it seems like that's a little bit 525 00:27:33,570 --> 00:27:37,080 of what we're tapped into here is like, just keep it simple. 526 00:27:37,470 --> 00:27:40,710 You know, ease yourself into it, you don't have to, even though a 527 00:27:40,710 --> 00:27:43,890 funnel sounds really cool, once it's built, and it's all working 528 00:27:43,890 --> 00:27:47,490 really great it is. But if you're feeling like you you're 529 00:27:47,520 --> 00:27:51,450 behind on, like things like retargeting or things like ads, 530 00:27:51,780 --> 00:27:55,260 just like figure out a plan and just slowly like inch forward 531 00:27:55,260 --> 00:27:59,310 and make these things habits instead of like flash in the pan 532 00:27:59,310 --> 00:28:02,010 fads that you set up ones, and then you don't finish up 533 00:28:02,010 --> 00:28:04,890 anymore. Like that's a bunch of chaos. And so there's so many 534 00:28:04,920 --> 00:28:08,430 cool things that can be done and should be done. But as far as 535 00:28:08,490 --> 00:28:11,550 you and your company moving forward into the future, what's 536 00:28:11,550 --> 00:28:13,530 on their highs, and what's next for you guys. 537 00:28:14,070 --> 00:28:16,800 Amy Anderson: Um, we have some some really interesting sort of 538 00:28:16,800 --> 00:28:20,490 big deployment projects coming up. We're doing a lot more with 539 00:28:20,490 --> 00:28:24,480 video than we've done. We are breaking into Snapchat and 540 00:28:24,480 --> 00:28:27,420 Tiktok I can't believe it's happening. But we are developing 541 00:28:27,420 --> 00:28:31,590 some really good content. And think about this, like even b2b 542 00:28:31,590 --> 00:28:34,770 players are expected to be publishers in this market. I 543 00:28:34,770 --> 00:28:37,710 mean, in order to stay relevant in order to provide value, 544 00:28:37,710 --> 00:28:40,890 right, if you're value selling, you have to provide and deliver 545 00:28:40,890 --> 00:28:43,110 really valuable content to people. And there's a lot of 546 00:28:43,110 --> 00:28:47,910 pressure for companies, I mean, from health care to SAS firms 547 00:28:47,910 --> 00:28:51,750 fin tech to really develop good content. So we've built a team 548 00:28:51,990 --> 00:28:55,320 that has this ability, whether it in social or a blog, or in 549 00:28:55,320 --> 00:28:58,440 video or in podcast is developing really great relevant 550 00:28:58,440 --> 00:29:02,190 content for b2b and b2c companies. We're also doing more 551 00:29:02,190 --> 00:29:07,050 with AI and machine learning. And so we are working with a few 552 00:29:07,050 --> 00:29:10,260 sort of technology partners to really develop sort of the best 553 00:29:10,410 --> 00:29:13,710 ads that we can using machine learning to help us rewrite 554 00:29:13,710 --> 00:29:16,530 copy. And that's been a really exciting space to be in also, 555 00:29:17,190 --> 00:29:17,790 exciting 556 00:29:17,820 --> 00:29:20,220 Robert Plank: cutting edge. So if someone is listening to a 557 00:29:20,220 --> 00:29:22,260 conversation today, and they say, you know, you've checked a 558 00:29:22,260 --> 00:29:25,950 lot of the boxes, I know I need content. I know I need strategy. 559 00:29:25,950 --> 00:29:29,160 I know I need a team. And perhaps it could be like this 560 00:29:29,160 --> 00:29:32,340 fractional thing where I don't have to just like hand over the 561 00:29:32,340 --> 00:29:35,730 keys in my whole business. I don't have to throw in 100 grand 562 00:29:35,730 --> 00:29:41,220 just as a test to see what happens. So So who, who can if 563 00:29:41,370 --> 00:29:44,760 someone's listening, how do they know if they're the right ideal 564 00:29:44,760 --> 00:29:47,160 candidate for you and your company? And if they know that 565 00:29:47,160 --> 00:29:49,440 they're the right person, where do they go? What's the next 566 00:29:49,440 --> 00:29:49,890 step? 567 00:29:50,280 --> 00:29:53,100 Amy Anderson: Well, you can find us at Wild coffee marketing.com 568 00:29:53,130 --> 00:29:57,420 And I'm also on LinkedIn, and under wild coffee and the team 569 00:29:57,420 --> 00:29:59,970 is developing some good content so you can see the type of work 570 00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:03,540 What we're doing, the clients that we are with, you can always 571 00:30:03,540 --> 00:30:06,660 reach out to us and see if we're a good fit. We do some well 572 00:30:06,660 --> 00:30:10,260 funded early stage startups, we do turnaround work. We do 573 00:30:10,260 --> 00:30:12,810 accelerations, digital transformation, sometimes we'll 574 00:30:12,810 --> 00:30:16,440 just do some project work. Whether it be sort of creative 575 00:30:16,440 --> 00:30:22,410 design websites, we do as well. So it really just depends. You 576 00:30:22,410 --> 00:30:24,570 know, what I was thinking to Robert, with, when you were 577 00:30:24,570 --> 00:30:27,780 talking earlier about just getting started, I just want to 578 00:30:27,780 --> 00:30:31,200 be able, it's something we've been talking a lot about is not 579 00:30:31,200 --> 00:30:35,550 letting great, get in the way of good, right? You can think about 580 00:30:35,550 --> 00:30:39,480 it and think about it, and want it to be perfect. And think that 581 00:30:39,480 --> 00:30:42,840 you have to do deploy all of these tactics at the same time. 582 00:30:43,110 --> 00:30:47,100 Really, ultimately, good is done, right and out in the 583 00:30:47,100 --> 00:30:51,870 market. And so I urge clients and colleagues and my team, you 584 00:30:51,870 --> 00:30:54,180 know, just don't let greed get in the way of good and it'll be 585 00:30:54,180 --> 00:30:56,550 out the door, because chances are, it's probably excellent 586 00:30:56,550 --> 00:30:58,200 quality. So 587 00:30:58,260 --> 00:31:00,870 Robert Plank: I like that a lot. And you reminded me when you 588 00:31:00,870 --> 00:31:03,120 were mentioned about like clicking something about quick 589 00:31:03,120 --> 00:31:07,320 and simple emails, that alone was huge, right? And for and 590 00:31:07,320 --> 00:31:09,750 we've all been there, especially early on, especially with email 591 00:31:09,750 --> 00:31:13,560 marketing, it's so tempting to say I need to have a once every 592 00:31:13,560 --> 00:31:16,410 Friday newsletter and first of all, that's boring. Second of 593 00:31:16,410 --> 00:31:19,860 all, that's so much work. And third, like what decade are you 594 00:31:19,860 --> 00:31:23,580 living in, and even like a couple of decades ago, back then 595 00:31:23,670 --> 00:31:27,210 I would just say, a quick and simple sales letter, headline, 596 00:31:27,240 --> 00:31:29,970 10 bullet points button, it got the job done, it was something I 597 00:31:29,970 --> 00:31:32,610 could improve later. Same thing with the email, something that 598 00:31:32,610 --> 00:31:36,240 just took like a minute to read that when I tried all kinds of 599 00:31:36,240 --> 00:31:39,390 different fancy stuff, it's like so many times the simple beat 600 00:31:39,390 --> 00:31:42,450 the fancy. So I love what you said there, don't let great get 601 00:31:42,450 --> 00:31:45,240 in the way of good, you have to start somewhere, you have to get 602 00:31:45,240 --> 00:31:49,050 that proof of concept. And it's also I think, more encouraging, 603 00:31:49,050 --> 00:31:52,260 right, because if you can get some, some easy wins some early 604 00:31:52,260 --> 00:31:55,680 successes, maybe you plug some of the leaks in the funnel, or 605 00:31:55,710 --> 00:31:58,470 just kind of get some numbers, get some measurements. And then 606 00:31:58,470 --> 00:32:02,550 if you can say, well, if I if I contacted 100 people and I got 607 00:32:02,580 --> 00:32:04,950 three clients out of that, well then cool, now I have something 608 00:32:04,950 --> 00:32:08,820 that I can repeat, I can refine and all that fun stuff. So ya 609 00:32:08,820 --> 00:32:09,090 know, you 610 00:32:09,090 --> 00:32:11,040 Amy Anderson: have a 3% conversion rate at that point, 611 00:32:11,070 --> 00:32:13,800 right. So then you have a benchmark, you have a benchmark 612 00:32:13,800 --> 00:32:16,290 key performance indicator that you know, three out of 100 613 00:32:16,740 --> 00:32:19,140 That's the Holy Grail, right, trying to figure out where you 614 00:32:19,140 --> 00:32:21,810 can get your lowest acquisition costs with the least amount of 615 00:32:21,810 --> 00:32:24,750 effort. You know, our business is very much a referral 616 00:32:24,750 --> 00:32:27,300 business. That's where how we've built it from the ground up is 617 00:32:27,300 --> 00:32:29,220 clients that we've worked with, or people we've worked with in 618 00:32:29,220 --> 00:32:32,970 the past. And but for our clients, it's really 619 00:32:32,970 --> 00:32:36,210 understanding where that low acquisition cost is, was the 620 00:32:36,210 --> 00:32:38,700 least amount of effort and then be able to scale and sort of 621 00:32:38,700 --> 00:32:39,810 crank that up for them. 622 00:32:40,260 --> 00:32:42,330 Robert Plank: Imagine that actually having a business based 623 00:32:42,330 --> 00:32:46,230 on math based on logic, and not just on on the whims of your 624 00:32:46,230 --> 00:32:49,080 emotions, and like emotions are great, but I know that they lie 625 00:32:49,080 --> 00:32:52,770 to me. And I know that if I'm happy one second, maybe in five 626 00:32:52,770 --> 00:32:56,250 minutes, something else might ruin my day. So why not do it 627 00:32:56,250 --> 00:33:00,090 based on the numbers. And I also imagine that many people are 628 00:33:00,090 --> 00:33:03,210 passionate about what they do what they're doing in their 629 00:33:03,210 --> 00:33:06,300 industry, if they love the the formal wear and the prom 630 00:33:06,300 --> 00:33:09,630 dresses, they don't want to learn things like conversion 631 00:33:09,630 --> 00:33:13,680 rates, or like customer value or KPI so why not leave that to the 632 00:33:13,680 --> 00:33:17,790 experts at Wild coffee marketing.com and we will see 633 00:33:17,790 --> 00:33:21,120 you there and you have any final parting words of advice or any 634 00:33:21,120 --> 00:33:24,240 just like last thoughts that we feel like we were unable to fit 635 00:33:24,240 --> 00:33:24,870 in here, Amy? 636 00:33:25,200 --> 00:33:27,570 Amy Anderson: Um, well, for anyone leading teams of people, 637 00:33:27,600 --> 00:33:31,800 I just have been really trying to encourage empathy towards 638 00:33:31,830 --> 00:33:35,190 people on your teams and really sort of practice compassion in 639 00:33:35,190 --> 00:33:38,160 this market. As we started this conversation, there's a lot of 640 00:33:38,160 --> 00:33:41,070 movement, a lot of chaos. I think it's it's hard on people 641 00:33:41,070 --> 00:33:43,650 sort of what's happening and to really see what your team is 642 00:33:43,650 --> 00:33:46,710 saying, see what they're not saying. And because a lot of us 643 00:33:46,710 --> 00:33:50,040 are on Zoom, that we continue to check in with each other as we 644 00:33:50,040 --> 00:33:53,100 continue to sort of emerge out of this market. And it's what we 645 00:33:53,100 --> 00:33:55,740 try to practice it while coffee and I hope that others do too. 646 00:33:56,220 --> 00:33:59,130 Robert Plank: I like that too. And and like because one of the 647 00:33:59,130 --> 00:34:02,580 many things I do is like I'm on a team of some like podcast guys 648 00:34:02,580 --> 00:34:05,580 was like six of us. And we hadn't actually met on Zoom 649 00:34:05,580 --> 00:34:09,000 until this morning. And I just I thought like, what is this at 650 00:34:09,000 --> 00:34:11,370 some meeting? We don't really have a plan should I really show 651 00:34:11,370 --> 00:34:13,560 up? And I showed up? And I'm glad I did because now I was 652 00:34:13,560 --> 00:34:16,950 able to put the faces of some of these names and it's just like a 653 00:34:16,950 --> 00:34:20,340 simple, easy thing to do, but often overlooked. So it was a 654 00:34:20,340 --> 00:34:22,860 really good reminder you have there really appreciate that. 655 00:34:22,890 --> 00:34:23,580 Great, thank 656 00:34:23,580 --> 00:34:24,630 Amy Anderson: you for having me today. 657 00:34:25,020 --> 00:34:27,060 Robert Plank: I'm glad to have you and we will see everyone at 658 00:34:27,120 --> 00:34:30,930 Wild coffee marketing.com And thank you very much Amy for 659 00:34:30,930 --> 00:34:31,710 stopping by. 660 00:34:31,860 --> 00:34:32,700 Amy Anderson: Thanks so much. 661 00:34:36,690 --> 00:34:38,580 Robert Plank: We really appreciate you being a listener 662 00:34:38,580 --> 00:34:41,610 of the marketer of the day Podcast the place to go right 663 00:34:41,610 --> 00:34:44,640 now. If you want to know more about running your own podcast 664 00:34:44,640 --> 00:34:50,610 is dF wine podcast.com/free Go there right now claim your free 665 00:34:50,610 --> 00:34:54,960 gift dfi podcast.com/free