1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:04,020 Robert Plank: marketer of the Day episode 838 Tactics versus 2 00:00:04,020 --> 00:00:07,500 strategies, boost your social engagement and develop 3 00:00:07,500 --> 00:00:12,090 consistent traffic with paid ads funnels and tracking with Oliver 4 00:00:12,090 --> 00:00:20,040 fie kins. Welcome back. We are here. This is the marketer of 5 00:00:20,040 --> 00:00:23,280 the day podcast. We're here with Oliver Deakins and Oliver is the 6 00:00:23,280 --> 00:00:26,850 founder of trusted search marketing. Now what is trusted 7 00:00:26,850 --> 00:00:29,910 search marketing. They are a digital marketing agency. They 8 00:00:29,910 --> 00:00:34,380 offer best in class SEO, paid search and social as well as 9 00:00:34,380 --> 00:00:37,410 recruitment marketing. They're located at trusted search 10 00:00:37,410 --> 00:00:39,870 marketing, we are going to find out all about what Oliver's 11 00:00:39,870 --> 00:00:42,480 company does, and more specifically what they can do 12 00:00:42,480 --> 00:00:44,910 for you the problems they can solve for you and your business. 13 00:00:45,000 --> 00:00:47,490 Oliver, glad to be talking to you. Thanks, Robert. 14 00:00:47,490 --> 00:00:48,570 Oliver Feakins: Nice to be talking to you too. 15 00:00:49,289 --> 00:00:51,299 Robert Plank: Super cool. Yeah. And so we're just you mean, 16 00:00:51,299 --> 00:00:53,429 we're just a couple you know, marketing guys just talking 17 00:00:53,429 --> 00:00:56,369 shop. So what has been on your Yeah, what's been on your mind 18 00:00:56,369 --> 00:00:59,639 the last six or nine months? Like what has you fired up? What 19 00:00:59,639 --> 00:01:00,839 do you feel like diving into? 20 00:01:00,899 --> 00:01:03,599 Oliver Feakins: Oh, man, I don't know. It's there's so much going 21 00:01:03,599 --> 00:01:06,179 on in marketing right now. Right? There's, especially on 22 00:01:06,179 --> 00:01:09,539 the paid side, I feel like, you know, we have a lot of these 23 00:01:09,539 --> 00:01:12,269 things going on with like the Apple iOS update from a few 24 00:01:12,269 --> 00:01:15,299 months back, right, that really put a kink in all the Facebook 25 00:01:15,299 --> 00:01:18,989 ads and Instagram ads, and even Google and just social ads. In 26 00:01:18,989 --> 00:01:23,039 general, we have algorithm updates in Google, we have, you 27 00:01:23,039 --> 00:01:25,919 know, different special use categories in paid search, and 28 00:01:25,919 --> 00:01:29,039 we paid search right now. It's just a bucking bronco, you know, 29 00:01:29,039 --> 00:01:31,799 trying to stay on. And you know, it's hard, right? Because a lot 30 00:01:31,799 --> 00:01:34,769 of clients that are used to it had for years, pretty smooth 31 00:01:34,769 --> 00:01:38,099 results and easy writing, you know, all the targeting is 32 00:01:38,099 --> 00:01:40,889 different. The Remarketing is different, you know, the 33 00:01:40,889 --> 00:01:44,669 audiences are smaller. So and their attribution is lagging. 34 00:01:44,699 --> 00:01:48,209 So, you know, it's, it's just a different world. So it's really 35 00:01:48,209 --> 00:01:50,309 flushed out. I mean, there's still digital marketing agencies 36 00:01:50,309 --> 00:01:54,119 that don't know anything's changed, like, so. You know, I 37 00:01:54,119 --> 00:01:57,899 think, you know, our industry has always been difficult, but I 38 00:01:57,899 --> 00:02:01,529 think it's became a little bit more volatile. And even to with 39 00:02:01,529 --> 00:02:04,319 COVID, like, you know, we go off as marketers, right, we go off 40 00:02:04,319 --> 00:02:06,779 of keyword research, we go off of seasonality, we go off on 41 00:02:06,779 --> 00:02:11,309 trend data, and, you know, COVID upset that, like, you could go 42 00:02:11,309 --> 00:02:14,039 back four or five years and find seasonality and keywords and 43 00:02:14,039 --> 00:02:17,819 things like that, and kind of, you know, but now, if you look 44 00:02:17,819 --> 00:02:21,389 at COVID, it's changed everything around for last year. 45 00:02:21,389 --> 00:02:24,029 So you know, and things are different. I mean, never ever 46 00:02:24,029 --> 00:02:27,269 really good example, in that case, but, you know, man, it's, 47 00:02:27,269 --> 00:02:28,649 it's, it's, it's hard. 48 00:02:29,820 --> 00:02:32,010 Robert Plank: Yeah, and that's, that's kind of the industry we 49 00:02:32,010 --> 00:02:34,560 chose to get into. But I never thought it would be this hard. 50 00:02:34,560 --> 00:02:37,050 And like you said, it seems like kind of problems on top of 51 00:02:37,050 --> 00:02:39,570 problems. And sometimes I think back to the old days, when you 52 00:02:39,570 --> 00:02:42,630 could have, you could send like AdWords traffic, right to an 53 00:02:42,630 --> 00:02:45,450 affiliate link. And you could just like, throw out 100 54 00:02:45,450 --> 00:02:48,240 keywords and see how they went and get it down to like five, 55 00:02:48,240 --> 00:02:50,400 and those would just always pay out. And you could sit back. But 56 00:02:50,400 --> 00:02:53,940 like nowadays, whenever, like, whenever I think about like the 57 00:02:53,970 --> 00:02:56,520 like the Facebook ads, for example, that I really liked, 58 00:02:56,520 --> 00:02:59,010 like people have paid ads for, like I see their ads, like once 59 00:02:59,010 --> 00:03:01,440 or twice a day. And like they're always changing. Like, there's 60 00:03:01,440 --> 00:03:05,070 such a sequence. It's like, they're they're doing more work, 61 00:03:05,130 --> 00:03:07,560 just creating new ads and testing new stuff than like 62 00:03:07,560 --> 00:03:10,620 content marketers are or like, when you look at I'm on 63 00:03:10,620 --> 00:03:13,500 Facebook, when you like can look at a certain page and all their 64 00:03:13,500 --> 00:03:17,310 ads are running. It's like I get tired scrolling through all of 65 00:03:17,310 --> 00:03:20,160 their like video ads, and like Facebook ads before I'm even 66 00:03:20,160 --> 00:03:24,090 done. So it's like it boggles the mind. Like how much how much 67 00:03:24,090 --> 00:03:27,240 work is involved and how much like adjusting and looking at 68 00:03:27,240 --> 00:03:29,580 things. And it's almost overwhelming thinking like, do 69 00:03:29,580 --> 00:03:33,210 we need like 10 or 20 full time people on this? We need to be 70 00:03:33,210 --> 00:03:37,590 blowing like $10,000 A day like what's what's the way out for 71 00:03:37,710 --> 00:03:40,860 for paid ads? Because it just seems like like an impossible 72 00:03:40,860 --> 00:03:43,650 nut to crack these days. Yeah, and you're right. 73 00:03:43,649 --> 00:03:45,509 Oliver Feakins: And what we found is that depending on the 74 00:03:45,539 --> 00:03:48,479 the medium, or depending on the type of ad or ad frame, for 75 00:03:48,479 --> 00:03:51,149 example, in Facebook, or Instagram, we've been testing a 76 00:03:51,149 --> 00:03:53,399 lot recently with the distribution network on the back 77 00:03:53,399 --> 00:03:56,549 end, right. So I'll give you a good example we ran. You know, 78 00:03:56,549 --> 00:03:59,819 for a client, we ran image ads, carousel ads, and a slideshow 79 00:03:59,819 --> 00:04:02,909 ads, all image based ads. And we were able to get it to an 80 00:04:02,939 --> 00:04:06,659 acceptable cost per acquisition or cost per lead, right? We 81 00:04:06,659 --> 00:04:10,589 started running video ads, and the cost per acquisition was 82 00:04:10,589 --> 00:04:13,049 much cheaper, right? Video always was better than Facebook, 83 00:04:13,109 --> 00:04:16,499 but it was for a recruiting site. And the candidates that 84 00:04:16,499 --> 00:04:19,889 were coming through were poor quality. Right? And we're like, 85 00:04:19,889 --> 00:04:22,529 That's odd. How can we be running video ads here images 86 00:04:22,529 --> 00:04:25,919 over here, and the quality is completely different. You know, 87 00:04:25,919 --> 00:04:29,519 the mix is completely different. And what we found out is that 88 00:04:29,549 --> 00:04:32,069 you know, when Facebook ads change mediums like in video, 89 00:04:32,069 --> 00:04:34,139 their distribution and their partner network, which is now 90 00:04:34,139 --> 00:04:37,919 automatically enabled, you know, since this update, completely 91 00:04:37,919 --> 00:04:40,559 changes where they're sourcing your clicks from outside of 92 00:04:40,559 --> 00:04:43,199 Facebook, because Facebook has a lot of third party networks that 93 00:04:43,199 --> 00:04:46,169 they roll into as well retargeting things like that. Ad 94 00:04:46,169 --> 00:04:49,889 frames, you know, the Facebook audience that works so yeah, 95 00:04:49,889 --> 00:04:51,959 it's just wild man. There's there's so much of a rhyme or 96 00:04:51,959 --> 00:04:56,159 reason to it. And also, if you see Facebook's kind of slowly 97 00:04:56,219 --> 00:04:58,379 taking away some of their targeting and really letting 98 00:04:58,379 --> 00:05:01,649 their pixel kind of learn and come up with their own 99 00:05:01,679 --> 00:05:05,489 targeting. And, you know, it's it's you have to kind of train 100 00:05:05,489 --> 00:05:07,709 and learn that pixel. And what we've been doing is 101 00:05:08,249 --> 00:05:10,079 experimenting with like programming some different 102 00:05:10,079 --> 00:05:12,809 signals back to kind of help it get there a little bit faster. 103 00:05:13,079 --> 00:05:16,529 But yeah, it's just crazy. Google's Google's done pretty 104 00:05:16,529 --> 00:05:19,469 good. We haven't had that same issue with Google. But I know 105 00:05:19,469 --> 00:05:22,889 that Facebook's dashboard is just a complete mess right now 106 00:05:22,889 --> 00:05:25,259 they're reporting us and they know it, everybody knows that. 107 00:05:25,619 --> 00:05:28,769 There's, they're quickly trying to figure out a way to track 108 00:05:28,769 --> 00:05:31,199 conversions in a way that they've never done before that 109 00:05:31,199 --> 00:05:34,409 will bypass the requirements of the iOS and apple and things 110 00:05:34,409 --> 00:05:37,139 like that. So it's just a very interesting time, you know, but 111 00:05:37,139 --> 00:05:40,469 you're right. I mean, there's, there's so much need to just 112 00:05:40,469 --> 00:05:43,049 test widely at this point to find out what's working, 113 00:05:43,079 --> 00:05:44,459 everyone's just on everything. 114 00:05:45,450 --> 00:05:47,280 Robert Plank: And so and it seems like maybe that's the 115 00:05:47,280 --> 00:05:50,640 solution, right? The solution is to not have all your eggs in one 116 00:05:50,640 --> 00:05:55,230 basket, not be committed to just one platform, or even have other 117 00:05:55,230 --> 00:05:58,530 things going for you aside from from paid ads. And I mean, 118 00:05:58,530 --> 00:06:01,260 you're making me think that, like, there's been so many times 119 00:06:01,260 --> 00:06:05,220 where I've taken for granted my existing list, right. And you 120 00:06:05,220 --> 00:06:07,230 always hear about these paid ad guys, like sometimes they're 121 00:06:07,230 --> 00:06:11,460 paying, you know, 25 bucks, 30 bucks, just for one lead. And, 122 00:06:11,910 --> 00:06:14,850 and I think about like the list that I'm on, and I don't really 123 00:06:14,850 --> 00:06:17,910 get contacted that much, right, no one really reaches out to me 124 00:06:17,910 --> 00:06:21,990 that often that many people over text or over, like offline 125 00:06:21,990 --> 00:06:24,420 marketing, or even like any doing any kind of like one on 126 00:06:24,420 --> 00:06:27,090 one kind of stuff. So what you're making me think here is, 127 00:06:27,240 --> 00:06:29,280 you know, there's all these different rules. And sometimes, 128 00:06:29,310 --> 00:06:31,890 you know, iOS will block that, or there's Google and their 129 00:06:31,890 --> 00:06:34,290 space. So books. So what I'm hearing from me was maybe 130 00:06:34,290 --> 00:06:38,100 there's there's something to being like platform independent, 131 00:06:38,100 --> 00:06:41,460 or like multi platform, that way, if one door closes, you can 132 00:06:41,490 --> 00:06:43,740 go over and still make it work somewhere else. 133 00:06:44,130 --> 00:06:46,290 Oliver Feakins: Yeah, because it's weird, right? We've had, 134 00:06:46,350 --> 00:06:48,780 you know, when we, when we market, we're marketing. So just 135 00:06:48,780 --> 00:06:51,690 about, you know, everything, right, we're, we kind of have 136 00:06:51,690 --> 00:06:54,360 this and the way we kind of divided is we have like this 137 00:06:54,360 --> 00:06:58,290 pile of strategy, or funds or whatever you want to call it. 138 00:06:58,560 --> 00:07:01,470 That's for things we know that work, and we're chiseling that 139 00:07:01,470 --> 00:07:04,080 down. But then we actually work with our clients are like, Look, 140 00:07:04,080 --> 00:07:06,540 if you want us to improve this, if you want to grow these 141 00:07:06,540 --> 00:07:09,330 accounts to be better than us to find that, that golden goose, 142 00:07:09,330 --> 00:07:12,450 right, we've got to spend some of this money to do it. And it's 143 00:07:12,450 --> 00:07:14,340 gonna, that money's gonna come from something that was 144 00:07:14,340 --> 00:07:16,800 converting a lot better, because this may not right, or either 145 00:07:16,800 --> 00:07:19,320 we're expanding to look like audiences or different, you 146 00:07:19,320 --> 00:07:22,770 know, uploading email lists, to be able to use those as seating 147 00:07:22,770 --> 00:07:24,990 for lookalike audiences or running different targeting 148 00:07:24,990 --> 00:07:27,780 variations, or we're in different mediums. Maybe we want 149 00:07:27,780 --> 00:07:30,810 to run video or YouTube, YouTube pre roll to try that out and 150 00:07:30,810 --> 00:07:32,700 different things, or we're expanding between different 151 00:07:32,700 --> 00:07:35,730 creatives, right? There's a whole lot beyond what works that 152 00:07:35,730 --> 00:07:37,950 we have to do to find the next thing that works. And sometimes 153 00:07:37,950 --> 00:07:41,790 clients will say like, look, no, you did great. But you spent a 154 00:07:41,790 --> 00:07:43,740 grand on something that didn't work well for us. And we're 155 00:07:43,740 --> 00:07:45,930 like, Yeah, we're gonna continue to do it. So we find the one 156 00:07:45,930 --> 00:07:48,630 that does, because then that's going to be your golden goose. 157 00:07:48,750 --> 00:07:50,580 And then we're going to continue to go that's how these count 158 00:07:50,610 --> 00:07:53,280 accounts evolve and grow. So yeah, right, you have to be in 159 00:07:53,280 --> 00:07:57,480 everything. And it's, yeah, it's just it's turned into a much 160 00:07:57,480 --> 00:07:59,010 more of a contact sport right now. 161 00:07:59,400 --> 00:08:02,340 Robert Plank: But it's like, and it seems like and that's like 162 00:08:02,340 --> 00:08:04,740 the only way to go right? Because it's there's like so 163 00:08:04,740 --> 00:08:08,010 much time and so much money involved in tweaking this. And 164 00:08:08,010 --> 00:08:11,460 it seems like when once you get that golden goose, it lasts for 165 00:08:11,460 --> 00:08:13,890 a while, but it's not forever. And it's almost like you have to 166 00:08:14,010 --> 00:08:16,530 like start the ball rolling on something else. So that by the 167 00:08:16,530 --> 00:08:19,980 time the gold curtain golden goose starts petering out, when 168 00:08:19,980 --> 00:08:22,410 you have something, something else ramping up, but if you 169 00:08:22,410 --> 00:08:25,230 hated doing that, if you force yourself to think that way, then 170 00:08:25,230 --> 00:08:28,620 you just be like a glutton for punishment. So it seems like the 171 00:08:28,620 --> 00:08:32,280 only way to move forward is to enjoy what you do. And to have 172 00:08:32,280 --> 00:08:34,740 this kind of mindset, like I liked how you, you said that you 173 00:08:34,740 --> 00:08:38,610 like kind of grooming the high performing ad, right? And that 174 00:08:38,640 --> 00:08:42,360 you might not even be 100% sure how much time it'll take how 175 00:08:42,360 --> 00:08:45,360 much money it'll take? Or like what combination of strategies 176 00:08:45,360 --> 00:08:49,020 like you said, like, see be like the email list with the Facebook 177 00:08:49,020 --> 00:08:51,870 ad and try the pre roll. And with the YouTube, it seems like 178 00:08:52,200 --> 00:08:55,890 it's there's really no gear and see, other than you can't just 179 00:08:55,890 --> 00:08:59,250 rest on your laurels. Because the the guarantee there is that 180 00:08:59,250 --> 00:09:01,860 if you just are happy with the ads that you have and what you 181 00:09:01,860 --> 00:09:04,320 have set up, and that's guaranteed to eventually fall 182 00:09:04,320 --> 00:09:07,290 apart, which is like maybe discouraging, but encouraging. 183 00:09:07,290 --> 00:09:09,690 If you say okay, that means I need to rise to the challenge. 184 00:09:09,720 --> 00:09:13,470 And the way that we're talking today, it seems like a lot of a 185 00:09:13,470 --> 00:09:15,930 lot of the competitors out there won't bother, right, a lot of 186 00:09:15,930 --> 00:09:18,450 people who are maybe trying to do the ads on their own or 187 00:09:18,450 --> 00:09:22,140 working with lesser ad agencies that is kind of weeding out the 188 00:09:22,140 --> 00:09:23,220 weak hands maybe? 189 00:09:23,760 --> 00:09:26,250 Oliver Feakins: Well, no, that's true. But like you talked about 190 00:09:26,250 --> 00:09:28,950 kind of needing to keep up on stuff. And yeah, I don't know if 191 00:09:28,950 --> 00:09:31,980 you've ever heard marketers talk about how things like oh, your 192 00:09:31,980 --> 00:09:36,480 landing pages is getting stale. Your ads are getting stale, you 193 00:09:36,480 --> 00:09:39,300 know, but they'll use this terminology right to justify, 194 00:09:39,510 --> 00:09:42,000 you know, the need to keep going right and then I'm like stale. 195 00:09:42,000 --> 00:09:45,690 It's not it's not a loaf of bread. Like you know why? So and 196 00:09:45,690 --> 00:09:47,700 when you think about it, it's not that your ads are getting 197 00:09:47,700 --> 00:09:50,010 stale or your landing pages getting stale or lacking 198 00:09:50,010 --> 00:09:53,400 freshness. It's that your competitors are releasing ads 199 00:09:53,400 --> 00:09:55,560 and landing pages that convert better than yours. And that's 200 00:09:55,560 --> 00:09:57,750 common, right the first thing we do when we create ads or look at 201 00:09:57,750 --> 00:10:00,450 landing pages, and the first thing any marketer should do is 202 00:10:00,480 --> 00:10:02,550 go take a look at the Joneses like where are the bar? What's 203 00:10:02,550 --> 00:10:04,920 the bar? What do we need to do better than what things do we 204 00:10:04,920 --> 00:10:08,250 like? What things can we iterate improve upon. So after that 205 00:10:08,250 --> 00:10:10,470 process happens across an industry or market over the 206 00:10:10,470 --> 00:10:13,050 course of a year, months or whatever, you start to realize 207 00:10:13,050 --> 00:10:15,900 that what was the best landing page in the fleet and other 208 00:10:15,930 --> 00:10:19,260 competitors now is now halfway through or toward the bottom. So 209 00:10:19,260 --> 00:10:21,270 that's why you have to continue to keep refreshing landing 210 00:10:21,270 --> 00:10:24,690 pages, ads, eye contact, you know, and keep testing. So just 211 00:10:24,690 --> 00:10:27,420 as continue. So sometimes people will say, like, Oh, why don't we 212 00:10:27,420 --> 00:10:29,610 pay you every month for Facebook ads, you just set it and forget 213 00:10:29,610 --> 00:10:32,310 it? And we're like, no, that's not that's not what you're 214 00:10:32,310 --> 00:10:34,860 supposed to do. Right? That's not how you, you know, your cost 215 00:10:34,860 --> 00:10:37,710 per leads will go up. That's why, you know, sometimes we'll 216 00:10:37,710 --> 00:10:40,500 move budget dramatically from Google to Facebook, and vice 217 00:10:40,500 --> 00:10:43,530 versa. Because depending what's happening in certain industries, 218 00:10:43,530 --> 00:10:47,340 and different things, like when Facebook went out, for like, two 219 00:10:47,340 --> 00:10:50,280 days, remember that everybody, the Google Ads sucked, because 220 00:10:50,280 --> 00:10:53,010 everybody wants a Google inflated the cost per click, you 221 00:10:53,010 --> 00:10:55,560 know, once we went back, a lot of people didn't return. So we 222 00:10:55,560 --> 00:10:57,960 were able to get some efficiencies there. But you just 223 00:10:57,960 --> 00:11:00,660 got to be, you know, testing constantly. It's Whack a Mole. 224 00:11:00,810 --> 00:11:01,890 You know, it really is. 225 00:11:02,430 --> 00:11:05,160 Robert Plank: And I mean, that you mentioned a kind of a little 226 00:11:05,160 --> 00:11:07,410 bit of a lesson in there that it took me so many years to 227 00:11:07,410 --> 00:11:10,470 understand that it's you can't just set up the ads, and then 228 00:11:10,530 --> 00:11:13,050 and then it's good. And I think that maybe some maybe some 229 00:11:13,050 --> 00:11:16,530 companies that hire agencies like you, maybe they're hoping 230 00:11:16,560 --> 00:11:18,930 to work out that way, right? Like, oh, I'll pay you for a few 231 00:11:18,930 --> 00:11:22,200 months, set up ads. And then I'll say, Stop monthly payment. 232 00:11:22,200 --> 00:11:24,390 And let me take those ads. And let me just run with those. And 233 00:11:24,390 --> 00:11:27,360 it's like, but there's, there's constant work happening with 234 00:11:27,360 --> 00:11:30,960 there. And so in, in all these, these clients that you have in 235 00:11:30,960 --> 00:11:33,960 all these industries that you're working, are you seeing any kind 236 00:11:33,960 --> 00:11:37,500 of like easy wins or low hanging fruit or like just ways that a 237 00:11:37,500 --> 00:11:40,800 lot of people are maybe going wrong with their ads, landing 238 00:11:40,800 --> 00:11:43,200 pages, testing, just something something in general, that 239 00:11:43,230 --> 00:11:46,590 really jumps out at you that maybe we all need to stop doing 240 00:11:46,590 --> 00:11:48,390 or start doing anything come to mind? 241 00:11:49,140 --> 00:11:50,880 Oliver Feakins: Yeah, I would say like maybe the top three 242 00:11:50,880 --> 00:11:54,570 things I would think about is to start with landing pages. I, you 243 00:11:54,570 --> 00:11:56,640 know, I work with clients all day, who come on and want to 244 00:11:56,640 --> 00:11:59,850 work with us. And I would say majority of them do not have a 245 00:11:59,850 --> 00:12:02,430 landing page. And they have no intention of having a landing 246 00:12:02,430 --> 00:12:04,320 page. And so we tell them, we won't work with them unless they 247 00:12:04,320 --> 00:12:07,470 have one. You know, it's no, I can't just send it to the 248 00:12:07,470 --> 00:12:10,200 homepage. Well, no, you know, there's there, you know, and get 249 00:12:10,200 --> 00:12:12,600 best practices that multiple landing pages, right for each 250 00:12:12,600 --> 00:12:16,320 different type of demographic or what you're targeting. So that's 251 00:12:16,320 --> 00:12:18,930 one. So if you're running any kind of Facebook ads, you know, 252 00:12:18,930 --> 00:12:21,150 you have to have a domain. Oh, that sounds stupid, like a 253 00:12:21,150 --> 00:12:23,850 marketing podcast, but you have to have a landing page. It's 254 00:12:23,850 --> 00:12:27,090 it's an entry ticket, you know, you shouldn't do without it. You 255 00:12:27,090 --> 00:12:29,310 know, we had a client that was running to the homepage, we took 256 00:12:29,310 --> 00:12:32,010 it to a landing page, we increase their conversion rate 257 00:12:32,010 --> 00:12:36,720 by 10x. Same ads, same account landing page versus a site TEDx, 258 00:12:36,990 --> 00:12:41,190 you know, so it's huge. You know, the other thing, too? 259 00:12:42,180 --> 00:12:44,040 Yeah, I mean, that that's kind of the other one. The other one 260 00:12:44,040 --> 00:12:47,550 I'd say is video, we've been doing a ton with video, and it 261 00:12:47,550 --> 00:12:50,310 has been the results have been outstanding videos on a new 262 00:12:50,310 --> 00:12:53,070 concept. But again, a lot of people think they have to have 263 00:12:53,070 --> 00:12:56,760 this really well produced video to gain traction. And the video 264 00:12:56,760 --> 00:13:01,260 we shot was with an iPhone. And it actually reduce this 265 00:13:01,260 --> 00:13:06,840 customer's cost per sale from $60, down to 25. Same account, 266 00:13:06,870 --> 00:13:11,910 same targeting just different creative video, right? So video 267 00:13:11,910 --> 00:13:14,940 is really, really huge. And then the other thing that I would say 268 00:13:14,940 --> 00:13:17,790 is just that that continual testing method that we talked 269 00:13:17,790 --> 00:13:21,210 about, always be testing abt like, you know, for those of you 270 00:13:21,210 --> 00:13:24,060 who you know, maybe don't have a lot of money to create landing 271 00:13:24,060 --> 00:13:28,320 pages willy nilly. Optimizely, or Unbounce is a great tool that 272 00:13:28,320 --> 00:13:31,260 allows you to create landing pages on the fly, test them 273 00:13:31,260 --> 00:13:33,510 against each other run multivariate testing for about 274 00:13:33,510 --> 00:13:36,570 100 bucks a month. And you can do all this without a developer, 275 00:13:36,810 --> 00:13:39,480 super, super easy. So Optimizely, or Unbounce would be 276 00:13:39,480 --> 00:13:41,610 great ways to get those landing pages going and to test 277 00:13:41,610 --> 00:13:45,360 different things. Again, we're talking about almost, you know, 278 00:13:45,360 --> 00:13:48,000 doubling the conversion rate between some of the things you 279 00:13:48,000 --> 00:13:50,310 can do on CRO conversion rate optimisation. 280 00:13:51,360 --> 00:13:53,250 Robert Plank: And, and this is good, because some of these 281 00:13:53,250 --> 00:13:55,110 things that we're mentioning are just like marketing 282 00:13:55,110 --> 00:13:58,200 fundamentals. And I think that, you know, we all fall into this, 283 00:13:58,200 --> 00:14:01,110 and I especially fell into this when I was new. I was I was 284 00:14:01,110 --> 00:14:04,740 always I was looking for like the the magic button, right? I 285 00:14:04,740 --> 00:14:07,170 was like, Well, if I can find this one thing, my business 286 00:14:07,170 --> 00:14:09,420 would just blow up. And it's like, yeah, but you need to have 287 00:14:09,420 --> 00:14:12,900 a website, domain name landing page, in a way have a way for 288 00:14:12,960 --> 00:14:16,860 someone to buy you buy from you maybe send some emails, and then 289 00:14:16,890 --> 00:14:19,470 maybe some of these other marketing techniques or like 290 00:14:19,590 --> 00:14:22,890 things to add on from there. But without that foundation without 291 00:14:22,890 --> 00:14:26,400 those basics, then then what the heck are you doing? And I don't 292 00:14:26,400 --> 00:14:28,920 know about you all ever, but there's, I have so many 293 00:14:28,920 --> 00:14:32,250 conversations where I'll say, what's your website? All? Well, 294 00:14:32,280 --> 00:14:35,130 you know, there's this old one, here's my blog, don't go to this 295 00:14:35,130 --> 00:14:37,830 one. Or what's your landing page? Well, there's this but I 296 00:14:37,830 --> 00:14:40,980 made it like three years ago. And, and so that's kind of like 297 00:14:40,980 --> 00:14:45,180 it's a it's a very bare bones like kindergarten level 298 00:14:45,180 --> 00:14:47,940 marketing lesson, but I think everyone needs to hear it to 299 00:14:48,000 --> 00:14:51,180 have that landing page and be proud of it and know where it 300 00:14:51,180 --> 00:14:54,660 is, and have it at least be like something that least you've 301 00:14:54,660 --> 00:14:57,600 looked at recently, right? Like, even if maybe you don't want to 302 00:14:57,600 --> 00:15:00,930 change it, or at least you looked at it Really, and so that 303 00:15:00,930 --> 00:15:03,720 kind of brings me to all over, you know, sometimes I'll, um, 304 00:15:03,870 --> 00:15:06,900 I'll see like a landing page I like, or I'll see an ad and I'll 305 00:15:06,900 --> 00:15:09,360 go and I'll, I'll sign up and I'll be like, Ooh, I'll add that 306 00:15:09,360 --> 00:15:12,540 to my swipe file. And sometimes my swipe file will be like, too 307 00:15:12,540 --> 00:15:15,420 big. I don't have too many ideas. And I'll say like, oh, 308 00:15:15,420 --> 00:15:19,260 man, should I have like, like a, like a quiz on a landing page? 309 00:15:19,260 --> 00:15:22,920 Or should I have like, 100 page report? Or should I have like a 310 00:15:22,950 --> 00:15:25,560 like a one page with all these graphics? Sometimes I drive 311 00:15:25,560 --> 00:15:29,250 myself crazy and end up doing nothing as far as like having a 312 00:15:29,250 --> 00:15:31,950 landing page. So is there any kind of like straightforward 313 00:15:31,950 --> 00:15:35,790 logic from you about? Like, the your most favorite kind of 314 00:15:35,790 --> 00:15:39,420 landing pages most favorite kind of like, like free gift? So 315 00:15:39,420 --> 00:15:41,670 anything come to mind there as far as like, is there a way to 316 00:15:41,670 --> 00:15:44,160 make this landing page idea? Simple, because it's easy to 317 00:15:44,160 --> 00:15:45,960 make? It's crazy and complicated. 318 00:15:47,220 --> 00:15:49,080 Oliver Feakins: So sometimes, I think making it crazy and 319 00:15:49,080 --> 00:15:52,350 complicated actually hurts you, right? Because now you're really 320 00:15:52,380 --> 00:15:55,170 you're really dependent on you're hitting it out the park, 321 00:15:55,290 --> 00:15:59,430 you know, the barrier, the more it's not extreme. But the more 322 00:15:59,460 --> 00:16:03,690 risky, you take that, that that environment, right? You the risk 323 00:16:03,720 --> 00:16:05,730 there is that you have to hit it, right, because you're 324 00:16:05,730 --> 00:16:09,030 getting pretty specific. I'm generally a big fan of having a 325 00:16:09,030 --> 00:16:11,940 foundation or landing page that is short, you know, to the point 326 00:16:11,940 --> 00:16:14,520 heavy use of graphics, maybe some video but either a form or 327 00:16:14,520 --> 00:16:18,630 next step, whether it be a you know, a scheduling widget or 328 00:16:18,630 --> 00:16:21,930 something like that as a goal. But or, you know, I'm definitely 329 00:16:21,960 --> 00:16:24,930 a fan of the foundational stuff, a good performing landing page, 330 00:16:25,140 --> 00:16:28,350 once you get into things like quizzes, or kind of a little bit 331 00:16:28,350 --> 00:16:31,920 more kind of gifts, as far as like maybe it's a, you know, 100 332 00:16:31,920 --> 00:16:35,850 page PDF, or, you know, a coupon or something. I mean, you can, 333 00:16:35,880 --> 00:16:38,460 there's so many gifts you can give, you know, I would test 334 00:16:38,460 --> 00:16:41,190 this against each other. But for me, I keep it really simple. 335 00:16:41,190 --> 00:16:44,610 We've tried all that stuff. And at times, it hasn't produced any 336 00:16:44,610 --> 00:16:47,160 better than a simplistic landing page. And I'd rather spend that 337 00:16:47,160 --> 00:16:49,800 time instead of creating 100 page ebook, I'd rather spend 338 00:16:49,800 --> 00:16:51,540 that time on creating 10 different landing pages are 339 00:16:51,540 --> 00:16:55,500 going to do just just as well, you know. So I know that's kind 340 00:16:55,500 --> 00:16:59,760 of foundational, but it depends on the industry. But I'm 341 00:16:59,760 --> 00:17:02,880 definitely a big fan of keeping it simple. The quiz stuffs 342 00:17:02,880 --> 00:17:05,010 pretty good. I've seen a couple people that have been doing 343 00:17:05,010 --> 00:17:08,070 that. It's a big ask for somebody to go through a quiz. 344 00:17:08,100 --> 00:17:10,770 You know, the quiz that I saw for competing client was like 345 00:17:10,800 --> 00:17:13,440 five minutes to go through 10 minutes to go through. I'm sure 346 00:17:13,440 --> 00:17:15,930 they have massive drop off rates. And I'm sure at some 347 00:17:15,930 --> 00:17:18,840 point, they're not as interested in taking quizzes, but something 348 00:17:18,840 --> 00:17:21,000 is learning about what it is or getting a free sample or getting 349 00:17:21,000 --> 00:17:25,020 10% off or whatever. So you just have to test all of it. I mean, 350 00:17:25,020 --> 00:17:29,790 it's so difficult to pick one. But my most simplistic easy to 351 00:17:29,790 --> 00:17:32,760 understand consumer quick landing pages convert better 352 00:17:32,760 --> 00:17:35,370 than my my kind of goal of landing pages and have all my 353 00:17:35,370 --> 00:17:36,240 free stuff on it. 354 00:17:36,750 --> 00:17:38,880 Robert Plank: And it's sort of a blow to the ego, right? Because 355 00:17:38,910 --> 00:17:42,750 you're making me think of back in the day when they told you to 356 00:17:42,750 --> 00:17:46,860 have like a splash page or like a flashing show to kind of date 357 00:17:46,860 --> 00:17:51,930 guys like you and me. But like, there was a time when I had 358 00:17:51,930 --> 00:17:54,000 never heard of before they when they were seeing things like 359 00:17:54,060 --> 00:17:57,270 don't have a huge header graphic. And then there's the 360 00:17:57,270 --> 00:18:00,540 discussion at one point about having things above the fold. 361 00:18:00,540 --> 00:18:03,060 And I think that was when Google ad was still trying to get 362 00:18:03,060 --> 00:18:06,450 things figured out. But one time I was like, Huh, I wonder if I 363 00:18:06,540 --> 00:18:09,330 like take this huge header graphic that takes up half a 364 00:18:09,330 --> 00:18:12,780 page. I wonder if it like if I shrink it and it'll hurt my ego 365 00:18:12,780 --> 00:18:16,170 a little bit, but I wonder how it works. And like it improve 366 00:18:16,170 --> 00:18:18,450 the conversion rates a bunch. And I think at one point, I 367 00:18:18,450 --> 00:18:22,380 tried removing the graphic and increased even more. And then I 368 00:18:22,380 --> 00:18:24,780 tried like removing like a few words out of a headline. And it 369 00:18:24,780 --> 00:18:28,440 was like the more I removed, the better at converting it it blew 370 00:18:28,440 --> 00:18:31,950 my mind and it was like totally unexpected. And and it hurt hurt 371 00:18:31,950 --> 00:18:34,740 my own ego because I was like, well, all these things are like 372 00:18:34,740 --> 00:18:38,160 thought through and like look good to me. It's people people 373 00:18:38,160 --> 00:18:40,470 are hating it. But like it makes sense. In hindsight, they're 374 00:18:40,470 --> 00:18:44,130 just like, if someone's in a hurry, if someone just wants 375 00:18:44,190 --> 00:18:46,980 wants to get to the other side, if they just want to know what 376 00:18:46,980 --> 00:18:49,800 it is I can buy from you. What's the solution? What's the price, 377 00:18:49,800 --> 00:18:52,770 things like that? Why get in their way? Why not just, you 378 00:18:52,770 --> 00:18:56,430 know, why not? Just let give them what they want to have. And 379 00:18:56,430 --> 00:19:00,180 like you said like a quiz seems sexy. But maybe there's maybe 380 00:19:00,210 --> 00:19:03,780 there's a there's some unexpected problems with it. 381 00:19:03,810 --> 00:19:06,420 Right? Like, like you said, it might take five or 10 minutes or 382 00:19:06,420 --> 00:19:08,610 so many clicks. And then you have to go and get those leads 383 00:19:08,610 --> 00:19:11,880 back. So simple works go as simple. That's really good 384 00:19:11,880 --> 00:19:16,230 advice. And speaking of keeping things simple, especially with 385 00:19:16,230 --> 00:19:21,030 us in our conversation, is there anything that you want to tell 386 00:19:21,030 --> 00:19:24,150 us about like things that we should look be looking forward 387 00:19:24,420 --> 00:19:27,210 in the future in the next six months to help us get like 388 00:19:27,210 --> 00:19:30,870 simplicity and clarity is are something to be on the lookout 389 00:19:30,870 --> 00:19:35,070 from Facebook, Google, the internet in general, what should 390 00:19:35,070 --> 00:19:38,790 we be focusing on to make sure that our business remains simple 391 00:19:38,880 --> 00:19:42,330 and kind of gets us where we need to go? Yes, we 392 00:19:42,330 --> 00:19:44,070 Oliver Feakins: spoke a lot about like Facebook and some of 393 00:19:44,070 --> 00:19:46,500 the fundamentals on paid ads and things like that. So let's 394 00:19:46,500 --> 00:19:49,650 switch over to Google SEO for a sec. So you know, what we're 395 00:19:49,650 --> 00:19:52,230 seeing right now is we have seen this for the last couple years. 396 00:19:52,230 --> 00:19:54,600 But you know, this year and going into the next I think it's 397 00:19:54,600 --> 00:19:58,380 going to be huge. A couple of things that are on my radar. One 398 00:19:58,380 --> 00:20:01,140 is is content marketing You might and people say, well, 399 00:20:01,140 --> 00:20:03,000 that's something it's been around forever. Yeah, but it 400 00:20:03,000 --> 00:20:06,150 hasn't been done right. So there's a tool that we onboard 401 00:20:06,150 --> 00:20:10,500 the tour agency last year called surfer SEO. And if you've never 402 00:20:10,500 --> 00:20:15,210 used this tool, it is awesome. So essentially what surfer does, 403 00:20:15,240 --> 00:20:18,210 it's it's competitive intelligence for on site SEO, 404 00:20:18,210 --> 00:20:21,090 specifically copywriting. So what it does, like say your 405 00:20:21,090 --> 00:20:26,550 keywords, I don't know, men's shoes, right. And basically, it 406 00:20:26,550 --> 00:20:31,110 will go in and pull the top 10 Pages for that keyword, 407 00:20:31,110 --> 00:20:33,900 whoever's ranking the top 10 for men's shoes, and it will pull 408 00:20:33,900 --> 00:20:37,140 just the copy just the text that you try to optimize for. And it 409 00:20:37,140 --> 00:20:39,690 reverse engineers. And so what Google likes and doesn't like 410 00:20:39,690 --> 00:20:43,320 about it, then it will contra that to your posts. So you can 411 00:20:43,320 --> 00:20:46,500 say, well, here's my men's shoes page. And it compares that that 412 00:20:46,500 --> 00:20:49,170 against the average for all those graphs, everything all the 413 00:20:49,170 --> 00:20:53,010 way down on like 50 different variables, like not just page 414 00:20:53,010 --> 00:20:55,500 length, but like how many headings are formatting your use 415 00:20:55,500 --> 00:20:59,430 of keyword density, images, videos, like it basically breaks 416 00:20:59,430 --> 00:21:02,610 it down to be this monster comparison. And it actually 417 00:21:02,610 --> 00:21:06,360 gives you specific action items and points where to do it. It's 418 00:21:06,360 --> 00:21:10,860 that incredibly simple. And one of the one of the ones was we 419 00:21:10,860 --> 00:21:13,320 were working with it, and you know, everyone wants to see long 420 00:21:13,320 --> 00:21:16,080 form content, right? It's all about Well, it used to be like 421 00:21:16,080 --> 00:21:19,320 500 words for blog posts, and it went to like 1000. Now it's like 422 00:21:19,320 --> 00:21:22,830 1800 3000 5000, people are writing books now for blogs, 423 00:21:22,830 --> 00:21:25,200 because it's all about how much copy you can write. So we 424 00:21:25,200 --> 00:21:27,960 actually throw one of these in surfer, and it came out and 425 00:21:27,960 --> 00:21:31,140 said, Whoa, you need to reduce this by 1800 keywords to your 426 00:21:31,140 --> 00:21:33,030 point from earlier about the ego. We're like, What the hell 427 00:21:33,030 --> 00:21:35,310 do you mean, we just wrote a, you know, this is a frickin 428 00:21:35,310 --> 00:21:37,980 masterpiece, like, you know, why are you telling us to chop this 429 00:21:37,980 --> 00:21:41,130 thing and have this thing, this one's gonna be broken. So we 430 00:21:41,130 --> 00:21:44,640 said, okay, let's give it a try. So we took 1800 keywords on a 431 00:21:44,640 --> 00:21:47,490 thing, shot it down by half made the recommendations and moved up 432 00:21:47,490 --> 00:21:50,850 three pages in search results. Now everything everything we're 433 00:21:50,850 --> 00:21:53,760 being told as SEO is is it's more content, all we know more 434 00:21:53,760 --> 00:21:57,390 and more and more. But we're missing the basics, the basics 435 00:21:57,390 --> 00:22:00,960 of on site technical, so surfer SEO really good tool. And that 436 00:22:00,960 --> 00:22:03,240 goes to kind of your lessons more kind of thing. So content 437 00:22:03,240 --> 00:22:06,630 marketing. Also, you know, we take on a lot of clients who 438 00:22:06,630 --> 00:22:09,480 they go after these like pocket keywords, these money keywords 439 00:22:09,480 --> 00:22:12,390 that they want. And they write so many pages of content 440 00:22:12,420 --> 00:22:15,570 targeting the same keywords or keyword variations, thinking 441 00:22:15,570 --> 00:22:18,090 that they write the keyword and optimize for the keyword more 442 00:22:18,090 --> 00:22:20,460 than once multiple pages and it's going to somehow signal 443 00:22:20,460 --> 00:22:23,010 more to Google, Google doesn't care one or two pages with the 444 00:22:23,010 --> 00:22:24,720 keyword. That's it, everything else from that you're 445 00:22:24,720 --> 00:22:27,840 cannibalizing the keyword. So we've been working a lot with 446 00:22:27,870 --> 00:22:31,200 with redoing our content plans to be able to redirect those 447 00:22:31,200 --> 00:22:34,680 internal keywords, redirect those links through redirecting 448 00:22:34,680 --> 00:22:37,950 web pages, refreshing content that doesn't rank well, and 449 00:22:37,950 --> 00:22:40,380 really re architecting how our continents and how we're 450 00:22:40,380 --> 00:22:43,740 writing. So content is really really huge. As well, you know, 451 00:22:43,740 --> 00:22:47,130 surfer SEO of easy way recommend it to everybody. The last one 452 00:22:47,130 --> 00:22:49,980 I'd say real quick for some kind of where I see things going is 453 00:22:49,980 --> 00:22:54,030 voice search. And that just the natural language processing of 454 00:22:54,030 --> 00:22:57,840 Google SEO right, for example. So Google acquired like 15 455 00:22:57,840 --> 00:23:00,120 billion, you know, companies that do natural language 456 00:23:00,120 --> 00:23:02,940 processing. And they've typed that into their algorithm with 457 00:23:02,940 --> 00:23:07,740 like Bert update and the mom update from last year. The 458 00:23:07,740 --> 00:23:10,290 Google's really tried and when you put in a keyword understand 459 00:23:10,290 --> 00:23:13,170 if you write it in a string or a question, they really want to be 460 00:23:13,170 --> 00:23:16,020 able to break down that that sentence into exactly what the 461 00:23:16,020 --> 00:23:20,100 keywords are looking for are. So with that, that comes an 462 00:23:20,100 --> 00:23:22,800 evolution of how we optimize SEO for right like we're not just 463 00:23:22,800 --> 00:23:25,650 optimizing for phrases or keywords. Now we're optimizing 464 00:23:25,650 --> 00:23:27,630 for natural language like questions, natural 465 00:23:27,630 --> 00:23:31,080 conversations, so you know, adding q&a, things like a 466 00:23:31,080 --> 00:23:34,050 question and answer section to your website, you know, writing 467 00:23:34,050 --> 00:23:37,710 keywords, not just in anchor text and keywords, but writing 468 00:23:37,710 --> 00:23:40,740 it conversationally, is where Google's heading so this is a 469 00:23:40,740 --> 00:23:43,650 change from how we've been doing SEO for the last 10 years. So 470 00:23:43,860 --> 00:23:46,140 you know, as you're, you know, as you're writing, you really 471 00:23:46,140 --> 00:23:49,170 want to get questions long form keywords in there really focus 472 00:23:49,170 --> 00:23:51,540 on conversational search, because that's where Google's 473 00:23:51,540 --> 00:23:53,970 heading and you can take advantage of being there first. 474 00:23:54,930 --> 00:23:57,030 Robert Plank: Well, this is all good to think about. And I like 475 00:23:57,030 --> 00:23:59,130 your mindset here all over and it seems like they're you're 476 00:23:59,190 --> 00:24:02,430 you're like a problem solver, deep down and even just talking 477 00:24:02,430 --> 00:24:05,010 to you makes me makes me think like, Oh man, I'm excited to go 478 00:24:05,010 --> 00:24:07,470 and like, like, tweak up some more option pages or do some 479 00:24:07,470 --> 00:24:10,140 more experiments or like try some more often, you know, 480 00:24:10,140 --> 00:24:12,780 landing pages for fun or like going like put out some more 481 00:24:12,780 --> 00:24:15,720 YouTube videos and not focused on just a certain phrase, but 482 00:24:15,720 --> 00:24:18,390 like try some like adjacent phrases. And there's so many 483 00:24:18,390 --> 00:24:20,970 like cool marketing lessons in our conversation here today. 484 00:24:20,970 --> 00:24:24,690 It's from things like less is more think about the marketing 485 00:24:24,690 --> 00:24:28,710 fundamentals always be kind of in motion and like kind of at 486 00:24:28,710 --> 00:24:32,010 least trying to keep up someone with the big old Google or 487 00:24:32,010 --> 00:24:36,180 Facebook and things like that. And, and even like a little bit 488 00:24:36,180 --> 00:24:39,480 of thinking about the reverse engineering aspect. And you 489 00:24:39,480 --> 00:24:43,800 mentioned some of these tools like Optimizely and SEO surfer 490 00:24:43,920 --> 00:24:47,070 and that's always the thing I forget to how important it is to 491 00:24:47,070 --> 00:24:51,030 like find a really good tool that gets the job done for you 492 00:24:51,030 --> 00:24:54,060 know, rising in the in the search results or finding 493 00:24:54,060 --> 00:24:57,330 YouTube keywords or whatever it is find the tool and don't just 494 00:24:57,330 --> 00:24:59,910 have this tool that's something that you revisit like once a 495 00:24:59,910 --> 00:25:02,340 week. year or you have an account, you know, it's there, 496 00:25:02,340 --> 00:25:05,730 like have a tool that you use almost daily. So that makes 497 00:25:05,760 --> 00:25:08,520 that, that way you make sure that you kind of your your split 498 00:25:08,520 --> 00:25:11,940 testing, or you're doing keyword research, or just there's always 499 00:25:11,940 --> 00:25:14,640 some kind of progress being made, because the progress won't 500 00:25:14,640 --> 00:25:16,860 happen overnight, right? You say, I wish I was running 501 00:25:16,860 --> 00:25:20,220 YouTube ads, tomorrow, it's all set up is it's gonna be like a 502 00:25:20,220 --> 00:25:24,000 daily process until you get to where you need to go. So this is 503 00:25:24,000 --> 00:25:26,790 all really good to think about. And I think that for talking to 504 00:25:26,790 --> 00:25:29,820 you, it kind of starts with the mindset, right, like wrapping 505 00:25:29,820 --> 00:25:32,340 your head around it. And whether you're going to do it yourself, 506 00:25:32,370 --> 00:25:36,360 or hire a team or wash the team or kind of keep throwing money 507 00:25:36,390 --> 00:25:39,690 into the budget, things like that. It's like we need to get 508 00:25:39,690 --> 00:25:42,690 our heads wrapped around this that way. We're excited to jump 509 00:25:42,690 --> 00:25:46,020 into it every single day. And so to help us get there to help us 510 00:25:46,380 --> 00:25:49,500 get this problem solved and start the conversation and take 511 00:25:49,500 --> 00:25:52,170 us to the next step. Because listening to a podcast is one 512 00:25:52,170 --> 00:25:54,930 thing, but taking action is another so if someone says, you 513 00:25:54,930 --> 00:25:57,480 know, I really liked this conversation with Oliver, I want 514 00:25:57,480 --> 00:26:00,630 to know what him his company his team can do for me. Where do 515 00:26:00,630 --> 00:26:02,430 they go? What do they do? What's the website? 516 00:26:03,420 --> 00:26:06,000 Oliver Feakins: Yeah, you can go to trusted search, marketing, 517 00:26:06,030 --> 00:26:08,850 calm, that's trusted, search, marketing, calm, that's our 518 00:26:08,850 --> 00:26:11,190 agency, you can check it out. And I'll just mention one more 519 00:26:11,190 --> 00:26:13,500 thing real quick. You know, we're talking about kind of 520 00:26:13,500 --> 00:26:17,790 like, you know, it's really easy. When we talk to people all 521 00:26:17,790 --> 00:26:20,010 day long. They're like, I want to do look like audience, I want 522 00:26:20,010 --> 00:26:22,650 to set up Facebook to do XYZ like my competitors are doing. 523 00:26:23,040 --> 00:26:26,310 And the reason like lately I've been so focused on taking a step 524 00:26:26,310 --> 00:26:29,580 back and jumping on fundamentals is because once you get kind of 525 00:26:29,580 --> 00:26:33,090 far down the funnel and some tactics, you know, you can look 526 00:26:33,090 --> 00:26:35,550 back and say, Well, you don't really have a strategy. And I'll 527 00:26:35,550 --> 00:26:37,980 never forget this, like when I was when I was in grad school, 528 00:26:37,980 --> 00:26:41,850 right? I took an internet marketing grad class, and I'm 529 00:26:41,850 --> 00:26:45,090 like, gosh, I gotta, I gotta weigh all this, I gotta do so. I 530 00:26:45,090 --> 00:26:48,270 own an agency, right? I'm doing SEO for 15 years, like, I ain't 531 00:26:48,270 --> 00:26:51,390 going to knock this lady on her ass. So anyway, I get in the 532 00:26:51,390 --> 00:26:54,360 class, the final project is to do a marketing plan. And I'm 533 00:26:54,360 --> 00:26:57,000 like, oh, internet marketing plan specifically. So I'm 534 00:26:57,000 --> 00:26:59,790 pulling out as many tactics as I can, I'm talking about building 535 00:26:59,790 --> 00:27:02,880 backlinks I'm talking about, you know, negative SEO, I'm pulling 536 00:27:02,880 --> 00:27:06,420 out everything I can, I'm like, I'm gonna ace this. And I get a 537 00:27:06,420 --> 00:27:10,350 D. I own an internet marketing agency, they got to do internet 538 00:27:10,350 --> 00:27:13,050 marketing for this project. And I went to the teacher, and I'm 539 00:27:13,050 --> 00:27:16,080 like, I'm pretty sure in your entire life, you're never going 540 00:27:16,080 --> 00:27:19,920 to hear any of the tactics that I mentioned. Like they are I 541 00:27:19,920 --> 00:27:23,160 brought my A game to this. And she said, you know, whatever you 542 00:27:23,160 --> 00:27:27,480 did, but you forgot the strategy. I was so she goes, You 543 00:27:27,480 --> 00:27:29,130 know what you're doing, but you don't know why you're doing it. 544 00:27:29,820 --> 00:27:34,050 You have no strategy, throwing tactics or tactic soup. And she 545 00:27:34,050 --> 00:27:37,170 was right, it was the best lesson I've ever learned from a 546 00:27:37,170 --> 00:27:39,720 teacher who very knows very little about internet marketing. 547 00:27:40,020 --> 00:27:43,140 But it was the best lesson I've ever learned. Right? Like, you 548 00:27:43,140 --> 00:27:45,720 know, there's so you know, strategy, tactics, change, fads 549 00:27:45,720 --> 00:27:48,360 change that come and go. But strategies lasts a little bit 550 00:27:48,360 --> 00:27:50,640 more, and they feed those tactics. So you can you can kind 551 00:27:50,640 --> 00:27:54,000 of roll with the punches. And I think, as a marketer, I've had, 552 00:27:54,030 --> 00:27:56,220 you know, I've learned a lot, but I haven't, there's not been 553 00:27:56,220 --> 00:27:59,670 a lot of things that Leah sent me on my but that was one, I was 554 00:27:59,670 --> 00:28:02,130 like, oh, man, I really came to appreciate the foundation and 555 00:28:02,130 --> 00:28:05,370 the strategy and then building that into tactics. I think a lot 556 00:28:05,370 --> 00:28:08,310 of marketers are too obsessed with the shiny, you know, the 557 00:28:08,310 --> 00:28:12,000 shiny coin or the, you know, the the big, you know, flashy thing 558 00:28:12,000 --> 00:28:14,100 in the room. And they're, you know, they don't even have a 559 00:28:14,100 --> 00:28:17,070 website, I just spoke to a guy before talking to you, wants to 560 00:28:17,070 --> 00:28:21,330 spend $5,000 a month with our agency to run PPC, to a website 561 00:28:21,330 --> 00:28:24,450 that looks at my two year old kid that it and I'm like, you 562 00:28:24,450 --> 00:28:26,580 know, and it kept saying, You got to redo the website, and you 563 00:28:26,580 --> 00:28:29,040 got to redo the website. And now I know, we just need to run ads 564 00:28:29,040 --> 00:28:31,260 and like, they're gonna bounce, they're gonna leave this 565 00:28:31,260 --> 00:28:33,450 website, you're, you're putting the cart before the horse, you 566 00:28:33,450 --> 00:28:36,960 don't have a strategy. And it's, I see it all the time. So to 567 00:28:36,960 --> 00:28:39,990 your, to your listeners, it's, you know, strategy first. 568 00:28:41,460 --> 00:28:43,890 Robert Plank: And I love that, but you had the what, and not 569 00:28:43,890 --> 00:28:46,530 the why. And I mean, I think that's a thing with education in 570 00:28:46,530 --> 00:28:49,500 general. Like, it's really easy to like, you know, diss on on 571 00:28:49,500 --> 00:28:52,650 like college or getting a degree or things like that, but like, I 572 00:28:52,650 --> 00:28:56,580 was a computer science major, and most of what I learned, it 573 00:28:56,580 --> 00:28:59,610 wasn't practical, but I'm glad I had the foundation, like I 574 00:28:59,610 --> 00:29:03,600 learned about, you know, databases and debugging and, you 575 00:29:03,600 --> 00:29:05,940 know, architecting software and things like that. And those were 576 00:29:05,940 --> 00:29:10,380 like solid skills that I kind of had to adapt in the real world 577 00:29:10,380 --> 00:29:12,930 and like, you know, evolve and get with the times but if you 578 00:29:12,930 --> 00:29:15,570 didn't have that foundation, if you just had all the all these 579 00:29:15,570 --> 00:29:18,780 little whiz bang, you know, quick fixes, BandAids, 580 00:29:18,780 --> 00:29:22,440 harebrained ideas, then that's a whole other mess and I think 581 00:29:22,440 --> 00:29:25,050 like you kind of it's like the yin and the yang right you can't 582 00:29:25,050 --> 00:29:28,500 have one without the other you kind of have to have the slow 583 00:29:28,620 --> 00:29:33,090 long term foundational strategy but also maybe the fads trends 584 00:29:33,090 --> 00:29:35,730 tactics to kind of be on the cutting edge and if you can 585 00:29:35,730 --> 00:29:39,390 combine both of those and know when to play this card or that 586 00:29:39,390 --> 00:29:42,510 card that I think you'd really go places and and that way you 587 00:29:42,510 --> 00:29:45,660 can be like more adaptable and and always have a way that to 588 00:29:45,690 --> 00:29:48,510 out think any problem that you have in your business. So like 589 00:29:48,510 --> 00:29:51,120 this is this is really cool. This is really inspiring, 590 00:29:51,180 --> 00:29:54,840 trusted, search, marketing calm and so when someone goes to that 591 00:29:54,840 --> 00:29:58,950 website, how do they know if they are the right company for 592 00:29:58,950 --> 00:30:02,790 you to lean to be? Like a certain budget, certain number 593 00:30:02,790 --> 00:30:05,850 of employees certain income, how do they know if when they go to 594 00:30:05,850 --> 00:30:08,880 cert trusted search marketing comm if they're in the right 595 00:30:08,880 --> 00:30:09,510 place, 596 00:30:09,960 --> 00:30:11,460 Oliver Feakins: I mean, generally, if they're committed 597 00:30:11,460 --> 00:30:14,190 to kind of best practice, and they're looking to do it right, 598 00:30:14,220 --> 00:30:17,370 and we're an agency, we're not going to, I just, you know, like 599 00:30:17,370 --> 00:30:19,200 that guy that I was just telling you about it, I could have 600 00:30:19,200 --> 00:30:21,060 grabbed 35 grand a month out of them, we could have done 601 00:30:21,060 --> 00:30:22,590 Facebook ads, they would have been great, they would have 602 00:30:22,590 --> 00:30:24,930 failed on this website, we ended up saying we can't work with 603 00:30:24,930 --> 00:30:28,770 you, right? So besides money, that it's really, you know, are 604 00:30:28,770 --> 00:30:30,960 you going to do this right? Are you going to allow us to help 605 00:30:30,960 --> 00:30:35,520 you win. And if we, if you can't then save your money, or 606 00:30:35,550 --> 00:30:38,160 unfortunately, go spend it with somebody else. But you know, 607 00:30:38,190 --> 00:30:41,070 generally anyway, to get us out of bed, it's about 1500 bucks a 608 00:30:41,070 --> 00:30:44,280 month, on up, and we're not super, super expensive. We have 609 00:30:44,280 --> 00:30:47,190 clients that go all the way up to 1015 grand a month, but we 610 00:30:47,190 --> 00:30:50,040 can work with most people at some level, you know, if you 611 00:30:50,040 --> 00:30:54,210 have a budget period, and if you have, you know, a desire to kind 612 00:30:54,210 --> 00:30:57,210 of do this the right way for long term scalability. But we're 613 00:30:57,210 --> 00:31:00,480 getting a great partner at that point. You know, my thing is, is 614 00:31:00,660 --> 00:31:03,090 if you're looking for a flash in the pan, if you're if you if 615 00:31:03,090 --> 00:31:05,940 you're not funded for for success, you really shouldn't be 616 00:31:05,940 --> 00:31:06,960 going any agency. 617 00:31:08,610 --> 00:31:10,800 Robert Plank: Okay, well, fair enough. And so if you're at the 618 00:31:10,800 --> 00:31:14,850 part mentally to get the help that you need, that's that 619 00:31:14,850 --> 00:31:18,390 sounds bad, right? But I hope it gets the point across if you if 620 00:31:18,390 --> 00:31:22,740 you know that, that you can make your business get to the next 621 00:31:22,740 --> 00:31:26,550 level. And if you want Oliver and his team to look at what you 622 00:31:26,550 --> 00:31:29,400 have and be honest with you and not just take your money and not 623 00:31:29,400 --> 00:31:32,460 just you know roll with it for a few months but tell you Okay, 624 00:31:32,460 --> 00:31:35,670 can we move forward? rifice Do you have a solid landing page? 625 00:31:35,670 --> 00:31:38,460 Should we do this strategy and this with that with ads? Then 626 00:31:38,460 --> 00:31:41,940 get the conversation started by going to trusted search 627 00:31:41,970 --> 00:31:47,160 marketing calm to talk about ads and organic ranking and maybe 628 00:31:47,160 --> 00:31:50,100 even Voice Search who knows what plan Oliver and his team has for 629 00:31:50,100 --> 00:31:53,190 you trusted search marketing calm and thanks Oliver for 630 00:31:53,190 --> 00:31:56,490 showing up and just having a real fun, random conversation 631 00:31:56,490 --> 00:31:58,800 and a good way with me. I really appreciate it. We will see 632 00:31:58,800 --> 00:32:00,900 everyone at trusted search marketing calm. 633 00:32:01,050 --> 00:32:02,880 Oliver Feakins: Yeah, thanks. Thanks for the time Robert has a 634 00:32:02,880 --> 00:32:03,330 lot of fun. 635 00:32:07,800 --> 00:32:09,990 Robert Plank: Do you wish you had a podcast just like this 636 00:32:09,990 --> 00:32:13,770 one? Do you wish you did more with your podcast like getting 637 00:32:13,770 --> 00:32:17,760 more traffic, being active on social media getting more guests 638 00:32:17,790 --> 00:32:21,660 better guests or you being a guest on other podcast? Or maybe 639 00:32:21,660 --> 00:32:24,750 you just want your podcast to serve the same but you don't 640 00:32:24,750 --> 00:32:28,170 want the time commitment you currently put into your podcast 641 00:32:28,170 --> 00:32:31,410 if any or all of that sounds great to you. Go right now to 642 00:32:31,410 --> 00:32:37,950 Def wine podcast.com/free to claim your 12 podcast boosters