1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:04,710 Unknown: marketer of the Day episode 842 startup essentials, 2 00:00:04,860 --> 00:00:08,940 start and manage your own business with Alex genetic 3 00:00:13,349 --> 00:00:15,659 Robert Plank: Welcome back to the marketer of the day podcast. 4 00:00:15,659 --> 00:00:18,929 We're here with returning guests. Alex Kennedy, Nick, Alex 5 00:00:18,929 --> 00:00:23,999 is a top 1% Udemy. Instructor, he teaches business marketing, 6 00:00:23,999 --> 00:00:27,089 productivity and professional skills. And I think it's been 7 00:00:27,119 --> 00:00:33,359 almost five years since we had Alex on here. And back then we 8 00:00:33,359 --> 00:00:38,579 Alex had 87 courses on Udemy and 66,000. Students, they know that 9 00:00:38,579 --> 00:00:43,319 now he's at less than my check was at 100 courses, and 150,000 10 00:00:43,319 --> 00:00:48,059 students with 2 million plus downloads across iOS and Android 11 00:00:48,239 --> 00:00:51,869 15 books on Amazon. 2 million views on YouTube, Alex does 12 00:00:51,869 --> 00:00:55,619 everything. He's even a musician and has tons of hobbies. And so 13 00:00:55,619 --> 00:00:59,429 we are going to tap into how you can do everything, how you can 14 00:00:59,429 --> 00:01:02,489 be this prolific person and create all kinds of amazing 15 00:01:02,489 --> 00:01:05,519 things that change the world and help the world. So Alex, glad to 16 00:01:05,519 --> 00:01:06,299 be talking to you. 17 00:01:06,359 --> 00:01:07,979 Unknown: Thank you for having me back. I'm excited. 18 00:01:08,189 --> 00:01:11,219 Robert Plank: I'm excited to talk to you. You are the second 19 00:01:11,219 --> 00:01:14,609 guests I ever had on my podcast that is over at marketer of the 20 00:01:14,609 --> 00:01:19,979 day.com for slash 102. And you and I reconnected and I saw your 21 00:01:19,979 --> 00:01:24,089 Amazon books and you're like I'm looking at one with 678 Reviews, 22 00:01:24,089 --> 00:01:28,439 243 reviews, so you're all about the big numbers and doing big 23 00:01:28,439 --> 00:01:31,319 things. And so what the heck have you went up to the last 24 00:01:31,349 --> 00:01:32,819 five years besides everything? 25 00:01:33,509 --> 00:01:35,759 Unknown: Yeah, well, I mean, he's always feels like the other 26 00:01:35,759 --> 00:01:38,549 people, you know, the people I look up to, they're always 27 00:01:38,819 --> 00:01:41,939 bigger and better, right. So I don't feel like my numbers are 28 00:01:41,939 --> 00:01:45,659 that big. I think in the recent years, I mostly focused on 29 00:01:45,659 --> 00:01:51,299 Udemy. So now I have actually over 500,000 students. And as 30 00:01:51,299 --> 00:01:55,109 you said, actually, you know, even so many years ago, I had 80 31 00:01:55,109 --> 00:01:58,379 Something courses, and now I have about 125 Something, 32 00:01:58,409 --> 00:02:01,439 something close to that. But the number of students really grew. 33 00:02:01,619 --> 00:02:05,489 So what I've really been up to is actually I've had to scale 34 00:02:05,489 --> 00:02:08,309 back of all the things that I've done before, like the YouTube, I 35 00:02:08,309 --> 00:02:12,689 stopped really focusing on a lot of my coaching, I stopped doing 36 00:02:12,689 --> 00:02:16,169 that, because by reduction of all the peripheral things, I was 37 00:02:16,169 --> 00:02:19,739 able to focus on the things that are the most important and 38 00:02:19,799 --> 00:02:23,999 reorganize those. And those really have become the Udemy 39 00:02:23,999 --> 00:02:28,169 courses, because you notice the number of courses grew rather 40 00:02:28,169 --> 00:02:31,889 slowly compared to where it started. But I've actually been 41 00:02:31,889 --> 00:02:35,309 improving them a lot. So even though the Course says the 42 00:02:35,309 --> 00:02:37,739 courses themselves, they're, you know, kind of same courses 43 00:02:37,769 --> 00:02:41,399 inside the courses, it's so much better now. So I've been 44 00:02:41,519 --> 00:02:44,369 focusing on making myself a better instructor making the 45 00:02:44,369 --> 00:02:48,839 courses better. And then also what I've had grow is something 46 00:02:48,839 --> 00:02:53,219 called course licensing or some people know it as PLR, Private 47 00:02:53,219 --> 00:02:57,299 Label Label Rights, licensing where people let's say, if they 48 00:02:57,299 --> 00:03:01,499 want to start their own course business, they can, you know, 49 00:03:01,499 --> 00:03:03,839 they have to make the courses or they have to ask somebody else 50 00:03:03,839 --> 00:03:07,259 to put the courses there, which is really hard. And so it takes 51 00:03:07,259 --> 00:03:11,129 a while and the courses may not be so good. But what I provide 52 00:03:11,129 --> 00:03:15,989 is a service where overnight people can license my courses 53 00:03:16,019 --> 00:03:19,439 and put them on their site and start selling right away. So it 54 00:03:19,439 --> 00:03:24,539 saves them months and months of effort. And that is a service 55 00:03:24,539 --> 00:03:27,419 for small businesses just starting out. And actually some 56 00:03:27,629 --> 00:03:30,659 large companies who also have the same problem, like they have 57 00:03:30,659 --> 00:03:33,689 to fill them in, you know, they selling courses is popular 58 00:03:33,689 --> 00:03:36,509 today. It's a really good business today, especially with 59 00:03:36,509 --> 00:03:40,199 the whole upskilling with COVID. It's a really good COVID Proof 60 00:03:40,229 --> 00:03:42,359 business, because everybody's sitting sitting at home 61 00:03:42,359 --> 00:03:45,809 learning. And so a lot of people have been coming to me to help 62 00:03:45,809 --> 00:03:49,979 them get their own elearning business up and running. So 63 00:03:50,009 --> 00:03:53,429 that's actually one of my strong focuses, it's not very visible, 64 00:03:53,459 --> 00:03:56,579 like, you know, Udemy you can see the numbers, but this is 65 00:03:56,579 --> 00:03:59,909 kind of like a b2b thing where you wouldn't even know that it 66 00:03:59,909 --> 00:04:06,149 exists, but it's actually been a big part of my focus. And I've 67 00:04:06,149 --> 00:04:10,169 had to cut almost everything off everything else out almost 68 00:04:10,169 --> 00:04:13,499 entirely just because I wanted to make time for my music that 69 00:04:13,529 --> 00:04:17,039 you know, which, you know, it's hard to get people to listen to 70 00:04:17,039 --> 00:04:19,919 because everyone has different tastes, but it's something that 71 00:04:19,919 --> 00:04:21,329 I'm passionate about outside of work 72 00:04:21,329 --> 00:04:24,899 Robert Plank: so so so many things happening and and even 73 00:04:24,899 --> 00:04:27,179 like you mentioned there about the death of music, you know, 74 00:04:27,209 --> 00:04:30,359 music is a way to express oneself. And something that's 75 00:04:30,359 --> 00:04:33,239 been on my mind last few years is even the way that you set up 76 00:04:33,239 --> 00:04:36,239 your business is a way to express yourself as well. Like 77 00:04:36,239 --> 00:04:39,779 some people just have one message, or some people are very 78 00:04:39,779 --> 00:04:42,809 diligent and they put out like a YouTube video every day. Or some 79 00:04:42,809 --> 00:04:46,349 people say, Well, I'll make one new course a year. And it seems 80 00:04:46,349 --> 00:04:49,679 like your your approach here, at least from hearing, the way you 81 00:04:49,679 --> 00:04:52,649 describe it is kind of like an 8020 sort of thing. Like you try 82 00:04:52,649 --> 00:04:55,829 all these different things. And then you say well, now now I can 83 00:04:55,829 --> 00:04:58,829 examine the landscape and say out of all these different 84 00:04:58,829 --> 00:05:01,559 courses I've done have all these different, you know, web 85 00:05:01,649 --> 00:05:05,759 properties I've developed? Now what is what's making me money? 86 00:05:05,849 --> 00:05:09,329 What is a good use of my time? What is enjoyable for me? What 87 00:05:09,329 --> 00:05:12,299 can I sustain a minute, and then you have the freedom to pick and 88 00:05:12,299 --> 00:05:15,629 choose and make maybe some of these risky, but calculated 89 00:05:15,629 --> 00:05:19,709 decisions of saying, well, I'll throw out these 20 things are I 90 00:05:19,709 --> 00:05:22,379 won't put any more time into these 10 things. And then I'll 91 00:05:22,379 --> 00:05:27,149 focus more on what I really want to do based not just on your own 92 00:05:27,149 --> 00:05:30,389 ideas or your own action, but also based on the feedback from 93 00:05:30,419 --> 00:05:32,999 when the marketplace. So you mentioned that part. And then 94 00:05:32,999 --> 00:05:37,229 you mentioned this whole idea of being a better course instructor 95 00:05:37,229 --> 00:05:41,069 or going back and revising your Udemy content. This is really 96 00:05:41,069 --> 00:05:43,289 good timing, because I was driving just yesterday, and I 97 00:05:43,289 --> 00:05:46,439 was I was playing some things on my YouTube playlist. Like I 98 00:05:46,439 --> 00:05:49,049 don't know about you, Alex. But sometimes if I see random things 99 00:05:49,049 --> 00:05:51,839 on on YouTube that I want to learn, I'll put it in like a 100 00:05:51,839 --> 00:05:55,079 learning playlist. And then when I'm driving, I'll just play the 101 00:05:55,079 --> 00:05:57,779 playlist, even if it's screencapture, and videos and 102 00:05:57,779 --> 00:06:01,139 things I can get most of it just from listening and while 103 00:06:01,139 --> 00:06:03,629 driving. And one of the things that was on my list for the 104 00:06:03,629 --> 00:06:07,229 longest time was Udemy, having a course on Udemy. And I think 105 00:06:07,229 --> 00:06:09,809 that from from what I've heard from you, to me, what I've seen 106 00:06:09,809 --> 00:06:13,829 people do is they resist it, because they say well, I only 107 00:06:13,829 --> 00:06:17,219 get this little bit of money. But then the upside seems to be 108 00:06:17,339 --> 00:06:19,589 that it's like this huge marketplace, like you know, 109 00:06:19,589 --> 00:06:23,309 Amazon or Fiverr, where you might get, you know, all these 110 00:06:23,309 --> 00:06:25,409 fees taken out at this low price. But you get all this 111 00:06:25,409 --> 00:06:28,379 traffic, you get all these students. And then when you look 112 00:06:28,379 --> 00:06:31,529 at almost any Udemy course that seems to be selling at all, 113 00:06:31,799 --> 00:06:34,949 there's so much detail that goes into it. And you can tell that 114 00:06:34,949 --> 00:06:37,559 they revise it like the descriptions super long and 115 00:06:37,559 --> 00:06:40,799 detailed. And it'll say, like, updated such and such months. So 116 00:06:40,799 --> 00:06:43,589 I see that happening. And so so that makes a lot of sense. And 117 00:06:43,589 --> 00:06:46,289 then you mentioned this idea of licensing your content, 118 00:06:46,289 --> 00:06:49,769 privately rights, which is a really cool idea. Because say 119 00:06:49,769 --> 00:06:52,619 you have like your productivity course. And maybe someone wants 120 00:06:52,619 --> 00:06:56,669 to make like real estate, our productivity for realtors, right 121 00:06:56,669 --> 00:06:58,499 like real estate time management, real estate 122 00:06:58,499 --> 00:07:02,249 productivity, they can take your videos and say, here's the core 123 00:07:02,249 --> 00:07:05,369 of the foundation. And here's our additional checklist, or 124 00:07:05,369 --> 00:07:09,659 here's our extra videos. And so it's a cool starting point, as 125 00:07:09,659 --> 00:07:12,659 you mentioned, for people who can't record this video 126 00:07:12,659 --> 00:07:16,529 training, or want to add on to what you have. And so it's a 127 00:07:16,529 --> 00:07:19,979 cool, like you said a way to make money that you might not 128 00:07:19,979 --> 00:07:23,879 see on the outside. So so much happening. And so I guess my 129 00:07:23,879 --> 00:07:27,209 first question or, you know, third question, whatever is so 130 00:07:27,209 --> 00:07:31,559 on Udemy what is seems to be like selling the best for you, 131 00:07:31,559 --> 00:07:35,219 or what course recently has really been your passion. What's 132 00:07:35,219 --> 00:07:38,639 been really exciting as far as all these 125 courses? 133 00:07:39,600 --> 00:07:43,170 Unknown: That's a good question. Um, so on Udemy in general, you 134 00:07:43,170 --> 00:07:48,570 know, it's a technology first marketplace. And I don't really 135 00:07:48,570 --> 00:07:52,680 make those kinds of courses, unfortunately. So the other 136 00:07:52,680 --> 00:07:55,260 skills other the other popular topics are, you know, business 137 00:07:55,260 --> 00:07:57,150 marketing, productivity and professional skills, 138 00:07:57,150 --> 00:08:00,240 professional skills have really taken off in the last sort of 139 00:08:00,240 --> 00:08:04,140 since COVID. Especially, everybody's trying to upskill. 140 00:08:04,320 --> 00:08:09,180 So this, this is like a big thing now. And there's a lot of 141 00:08:09,270 --> 00:08:12,180 new demand demand for that. The problem with those kinds of 142 00:08:12,180 --> 00:08:15,600 courses is they're such a low barrier to entry. Like anybody 143 00:08:15,600 --> 00:08:20,460 can make time management course, or motivation course or 144 00:08:20,640 --> 00:08:24,480 whatever, you know, like that, you know, courses on those 145 00:08:24,480 --> 00:08:28,620 topics. They're very competitive. So it's actually 146 00:08:28,620 --> 00:08:33,420 better to create courses that are forward looking. So for 147 00:08:33,420 --> 00:08:37,500 example, this year, there's a lot of talk about the metaverse 148 00:08:38,220 --> 00:08:42,150 and even if you don't know about it, you probably heard of it. 149 00:08:42,360 --> 00:08:45,270 And even if you heard of it, if you think it's stupid, you still 150 00:08:45,270 --> 00:08:47,790 are like, Okay, this thing is still kind of happening, even 151 00:08:47,790 --> 00:08:50,490 though I added doesn't make entirely make sense. Like, why 152 00:08:50,490 --> 00:08:53,250 would I want to have friends that are characters, cartoon 153 00:08:53,250 --> 00:08:57,480 characters, right? I'm not a child. So but at the same time, 154 00:08:57,780 --> 00:09:01,650 last year, I created a course on, you know, the whole 155 00:09:01,650 --> 00:09:04,170 Metaverse experience how to start a business in the 156 00:09:04,170 --> 00:09:06,840 metaverse different ways to make money in the metaverse versus, 157 00:09:06,990 --> 00:09:10,920 you know, apps versus I'm going to be adding how do we invest in 158 00:09:10,920 --> 00:09:14,970 it through cryptocurrency, actually, in this 2022 coming 159 00:09:14,970 --> 00:09:18,360 up, I'm planning some lectures around that. So this forward 160 00:09:18,360 --> 00:09:21,870 looking topics, there's a lot of people who are going to be 161 00:09:21,870 --> 00:09:28,920 interested in it tomorrow. And I started making it yesterday. And 162 00:09:28,920 --> 00:09:33,390 so I think today, this is how to do you to me, because you don't 163 00:09:33,390 --> 00:09:36,570 want to do time management motivation, because they're 164 00:09:36,570 --> 00:09:40,020 cool, very useful things that I use all the time and every day. 165 00:09:40,260 --> 00:09:44,070 But I'm also on those topics competing against 1000s of other 166 00:09:44,070 --> 00:09:48,060 courses that teach. Let's say, they tried to teach the same 167 00:09:48,060 --> 00:09:51,600 way. Let's say of course, I'm better. Just kidding. But every 168 00:09:51,600 --> 00:09:54,120 instructor thinks that they have something different about them. 169 00:09:54,120 --> 00:09:57,330 That is good. And I'm no different, but at the same time 170 00:09:57,330 --> 00:09:59,490 I understand there's 1000 of their courses, whereas the 171 00:09:59,490 --> 00:10:04,260 metaverse And, you know, virtual reality, augmented reality, this 172 00:10:04,260 --> 00:10:08,370 kind of stuff that's coming around the corner. So I think if 173 00:10:08,370 --> 00:10:12,090 anybody getting into Udemy, they should find something unique 174 00:10:12,120 --> 00:10:14,340 they can teach or something forward looking that's going to 175 00:10:14,340 --> 00:10:17,610 be not competitive today, but it's going to be competitive 176 00:10:17,610 --> 00:10:18,810 tomorrow, so they can jump on it. 177 00:10:19,800 --> 00:10:21,060 Robert Plank: And that's interesting to think about, 178 00:10:21,060 --> 00:10:24,000 because you always hear about doing, you know, product 179 00:10:24,000 --> 00:10:27,390 research, market research, and they say, well look at something 180 00:10:27,420 --> 00:10:31,170 that people are looking for, but is not yet crowded with all the 181 00:10:31,170 --> 00:10:34,650 competition and try to find that that gap to fill. And, and 182 00:10:34,650 --> 00:10:37,530 sometimes it's easy to drive yourself crazy and getting too 183 00:10:37,560 --> 00:10:40,530 deep into the numbers. But then this is this is refreshing to 184 00:10:40,530 --> 00:10:42,930 hear you saying this, because you're saying, well also look 185 00:10:42,930 --> 00:10:45,810 towards the future that you can kind of look at the data, look 186 00:10:45,810 --> 00:10:48,450 at the numbers. But also, if this is something that's being 187 00:10:48,450 --> 00:10:52,170 talked about a lot in the news a lot, there's always articles 188 00:10:52,170 --> 00:10:55,650 about it. And but it's not quite yet developed. If it's so kind 189 00:10:55,650 --> 00:10:59,460 of the Wild West, then that seems to be something to get 190 00:10:59,460 --> 00:11:02,550 yourself established in now. So that way, when all these other 191 00:11:02,550 --> 00:11:06,060 people, you know, when in a few years when they're making their 192 00:11:06,060 --> 00:11:09,120 course about the metaverse, well, then you already will have 193 00:11:09,240 --> 00:11:12,990 all these sales, all these students, all these reviews, and 194 00:11:12,990 --> 00:11:15,420 they will be behind it. And you will be ahead because you're the 195 00:11:15,420 --> 00:11:17,370 one that thought ahead towards the future. 196 00:11:17,999 --> 00:11:20,699 Unknown: Exactly. You'll be the deterrent, that they'll see that 197 00:11:20,699 --> 00:11:24,299 like oh my god, it's so competitive. And you'll be that 198 00:11:24,299 --> 00:11:29,489 thing that's too competitive. Good place to be. Yeah, that's, 199 00:11:29,519 --> 00:11:30,629 that's preferable. 200 00:11:32,130 --> 00:11:33,960 Robert Plank: Well, cool. And then so that's like your your 201 00:11:33,960 --> 00:11:36,900 Udemy business that you've been growing in. And also you've been 202 00:11:37,050 --> 00:11:39,330 killing it, crushing it, whatever the kids say, these 203 00:11:39,330 --> 00:11:42,960 days on Amazon with creating all your books. So what have you 204 00:11:42,960 --> 00:11:46,560 learned about book publishing and Amazon these last few years. 205 00:11:46,950 --> 00:11:49,890 Unknown: So when we first talked, I think it was a great 206 00:11:49,890 --> 00:11:52,830 time for Amazon, almost no matter what you're selling. 207 00:11:53,070 --> 00:11:57,120 Since then I've had a client. He had a great product that he 208 00:11:57,120 --> 00:12:00,450 created. It wasn't some, you know me to copycat product. But 209 00:12:00,690 --> 00:12:04,650 we took him from like literally zero on Amazon, I said, put 210 00:12:04,650 --> 00:12:06,510 yourself on Amazon, because he was trying to sell from his own 211 00:12:06,510 --> 00:12:10,320 websites to 10 plus million dollars a year revenue business. 212 00:12:10,350 --> 00:12:12,990 So this, this kind of these kinds of things have been 213 00:12:12,990 --> 00:12:16,860 happening on Amazon. But recently, actually, Amazon has 214 00:12:16,860 --> 00:12:20,790 gotten too hard in some sense, because we're not looking at it 215 00:12:20,790 --> 00:12:23,550 now. But if we imagine the Amazon sales, the Amazon search 216 00:12:23,550 --> 00:12:26,220 page, which is how most products get discovered is through 217 00:12:26,220 --> 00:12:31,140 search. So the Amazon search page is overflowing with ads. 218 00:12:32,130 --> 00:12:36,000 And basically, when you're a seller, you have to pay a 219 00:12:36,000 --> 00:12:39,000 commission to Amazon on the sale. And then to get the sale, 220 00:12:39,030 --> 00:12:41,130 you no longer get the free traffic as much because you have 221 00:12:41,130 --> 00:12:45,240 to pay to compete with ads. So your margin is cut tremendously. 222 00:12:45,570 --> 00:12:48,360 And it was already a complaint that the margins are cut 223 00:12:48,360 --> 00:12:51,210 tremendously before. Because the people were like, well, I can 224 00:12:51,240 --> 00:12:55,350 collect 100% of my site if I sell. And I have to give Amazon 225 00:12:55,650 --> 00:12:58,950 that only like a third but like I have to play by their rules 226 00:12:58,950 --> 00:13:02,010 and their terms of service. Now. So all these complaints were 227 00:13:02,010 --> 00:13:06,390 already quite severe and invoke and people were quite vocal 228 00:13:06,390 --> 00:13:10,980 about them. Now, I very significant complaint has gotten 229 00:13:10,980 --> 00:13:15,900 added that is another who knows how much expense of ads get 230 00:13:15,900 --> 00:13:18,510 added on it, where a lot of sellers are no longer profitable 231 00:13:18,510 --> 00:13:20,970 anymore, because you have to bid higher, higher higher, when the 232 00:13:20,970 --> 00:13:23,640 ads started, they were cheap. And they were very profitable. 233 00:13:23,640 --> 00:13:26,100 Now it's quite competitive because everybody's doing ads. 234 00:13:26,400 --> 00:13:29,970 And so now, you're basically just driving your you know, 235 00:13:30,060 --> 00:13:33,210 driving yourself to make a sale, you're making it unprofitable 236 00:13:33,210 --> 00:13:38,100 for yourself. So Amazon is becoming either you have to 237 00:13:38,160 --> 00:13:42,570 figure out ads like to be the top 5% of people serving ads, 238 00:13:42,570 --> 00:13:44,550 which is not even possible for a lot of products with small 239 00:13:44,550 --> 00:13:51,660 margins. Or you just have to take a smaller and smaller set, 240 00:13:51,660 --> 00:13:55,500 you know, traffic amount of traffic that Amazon is going to 241 00:13:55,500 --> 00:13:58,980 give you for free, which really becomes like what will watch if 242 00:13:58,980 --> 00:14:01,110 it's smaller and smaller, and if it's dwindling? What's the 243 00:14:01,110 --> 00:14:04,860 future of that? And is it worth spending you're investing in as 244 00:14:04,860 --> 00:14:11,220 a seller. So I think today, the Amazon marketplace is a lot less 245 00:14:11,220 --> 00:14:16,170 rosy. Even though I have quite the rosy glasses that I look at 246 00:14:16,170 --> 00:14:18,750 it with. Even to me it's less rosy. 247 00:14:20,430 --> 00:14:22,470 Robert Plank: And you're making me you're reminded me of when I 248 00:14:22,470 --> 00:14:26,040 was a kid I used to play a game called Sid Meier's Pirates. I 249 00:14:26,040 --> 00:14:27,600 don't know if you're familiar with that one. 250 00:14:27,720 --> 00:14:30,150 Unknown: No, but I know Sid Meier's Civilization and I love 251 00:14:30,150 --> 00:14:30,510 that one 252 00:14:30,839 --> 00:14:33,179 Robert Plank: yeah and and pirates it's kind of like a 253 00:14:33,509 --> 00:14:36,659 instead of building you go and attack different like areas in 254 00:14:36,659 --> 00:14:39,149 the in the Caribbean but basically you can choose which 255 00:14:39,149 --> 00:14:43,349 time period to to plant and you can choose to do like the like 256 00:14:43,349 --> 00:14:47,279 the very early time when it's largely untapped and not really 257 00:14:47,279 --> 00:14:49,169 settled and you can go around and have a lot of fun it's 258 00:14:49,169 --> 00:14:52,439 really easy. And then you can choose like the the middle era 259 00:14:52,469 --> 00:14:54,989 like I don't know if the if then it gets in like maybe like the 260 00:14:55,049 --> 00:14:59,069 the 1700s or something or 1600s I didn't pay attention like the 261 00:14:59,069 --> 00:15:02,369 year just the How far along it is but in the middle then you 262 00:15:02,369 --> 00:15:04,589 kind of have it's more established but then you're 263 00:15:04,589 --> 00:15:07,679 fighting a lot of other pirates and then you can choose like the 264 00:15:07,709 --> 00:15:11,069 the later years when there's like so much Civilization is 265 00:15:11,069 --> 00:15:14,519 built up and you have a really hard time because the police are 266 00:15:14,549 --> 00:15:17,729 but you know, the the good guys are always attacking you. And it 267 00:15:17,729 --> 00:15:20,879 kind of you're explaining this reminds me of this where there's 268 00:15:20,879 --> 00:15:23,639 like the any of these platforms, there's the early days where 269 00:15:23,639 --> 00:15:26,609 it's not really established where it's it's difficult in 270 00:15:26,609 --> 00:15:29,699 that there might not be as much traffic as you want. And then 271 00:15:29,699 --> 00:15:32,249 there's maybe like the sweet spot the middle ground where 272 00:15:32,339 --> 00:15:35,789 there's traffic, there's competition, plus it has not led 273 00:15:35,819 --> 00:15:38,789 yet edge you out money wise, and then there's maybe like the the 274 00:15:38,789 --> 00:15:42,479 later years, which is maybe like what maybe Google and Facebook 275 00:15:42,479 --> 00:15:46,919 have become now where the bleak harsh reality is that on some 276 00:15:46,919 --> 00:15:49,499 platforms like Facebook, people are talking all the time about 277 00:15:49,649 --> 00:15:54,269 $20 cost per acquisition, $25 cost for acquisition, saying I'm 278 00:15:54,269 --> 00:15:57,989 going to lose money acquiring this person and hit them with 279 00:15:57,989 --> 00:16:01,109 all these upsells and all these marketing hoping that maybe in a 280 00:16:01,109 --> 00:16:04,559 year, maybe I'll make that money back for that, that one person 281 00:16:04,559 --> 00:16:09,509 or longer, or maybe I'll lose $10,000 Just to get profitable. 282 00:16:09,659 --> 00:16:12,569 And then and that that's a playground that we can choose to 283 00:16:12,569 --> 00:16:15,299 play. And but like you said, at that point, you make a decision 284 00:16:15,299 --> 00:16:18,059 where you say, you know, I've already put in the work, I've 285 00:16:18,059 --> 00:16:21,359 already put in the the Amazon books or whatever you built up 286 00:16:21,359 --> 00:16:24,149 on that platform, YouTube videos, whatever it is. And you 287 00:16:24,149 --> 00:16:26,369 say, Well, I've already done the work. It's all sitting there. 288 00:16:26,369 --> 00:16:29,999 It's not costing anything for it to be there. But then I can 289 00:16:29,999 --> 00:16:34,079 choose well, do I want to continue making this my focus? 290 00:16:34,079 --> 00:16:36,869 Do you want to I want to make that business decision of this 291 00:16:36,869 --> 00:16:40,799 percentage of my profit goes back into advertising? am I 292 00:16:40,799 --> 00:16:44,729 considering this like a breakeven a loss leader? Or do I 293 00:16:44,729 --> 00:16:48,029 shift over into some other new up and coming marketplace 294 00:16:48,029 --> 00:16:51,689 because as you know, there's always some new place to get 295 00:16:51,689 --> 00:16:55,499 traffic to build a following. And as long as we kind of enjoy 296 00:16:55,499 --> 00:17:00,539 the process, play that game of go to somewhere new and get 297 00:17:00,539 --> 00:17:04,709 these new followers, then maybe we can kind of choose to be a be 298 00:17:04,709 --> 00:17:08,789 a nomad or be someone that same ad every year, kind of examine 299 00:17:08,789 --> 00:17:12,389 what we what we have what our focus is and say, well, if 300 00:17:12,539 --> 00:17:16,889 Amazon is no longer profitable for me or serving me now maybe 301 00:17:16,889 --> 00:17:19,529 I'll move over and put more focus into maybe something like 302 00:17:19,529 --> 00:17:20,099 you to me. 303 00:17:21,329 --> 00:17:23,669 Unknown: Exactly. It's hard to be a pirate these days on 304 00:17:23,669 --> 00:17:27,569 Amazon, you have to find new Caribbean's. Okay. Yeah, 305 00:17:27,600 --> 00:17:29,790 Robert Plank: good that the blue ocean as they say, right, 306 00:17:30,000 --> 00:17:31,110 instead of the red ocean, 307 00:17:31,530 --> 00:17:33,510 Unknown: something which is kind of like the forward looking 308 00:17:33,510 --> 00:17:36,780 things. And I feel like, you know, who am I to tell Amazon 309 00:17:36,780 --> 00:17:38,400 how to run their business, obviously, you know, they know 310 00:17:38,400 --> 00:17:42,030 what they're doing. But I feel like there's an element of greed 311 00:17:42,030 --> 00:17:44,820 happening where it's like, they're really squeezing out the 312 00:17:44,820 --> 00:17:49,770 sellers where their business is the sellers. Like, there's a 313 00:17:49,770 --> 00:17:55,020 certain point at which, if the sellers go away, or don't focus, 314 00:17:55,050 --> 00:17:58,920 they get left with worse, fewer sellers. And that becomes 315 00:17:58,920 --> 00:18:02,760 Amazon. Right? So at some point, there is kind of like a breaking 316 00:18:02,760 --> 00:18:05,070 point. I don't know what it is, I'm sure they know better than I 317 00:18:05,070 --> 00:18:10,770 know. But certainly, for me, as a pirate of Amazon, I'm, I'm 318 00:18:10,770 --> 00:18:13,860 searching for somewhere else, which is kind of like, I don't I 319 00:18:13,860 --> 00:18:17,730 don't yet love the metaverse. You know, it's not like I'm not 320 00:18:17,730 --> 00:18:20,730 like a champion of it. But it's the thing that's coming around. 321 00:18:21,030 --> 00:18:25,170 And just from experience, I know, I've got to be present in 322 00:18:25,170 --> 00:18:29,070 whatever's coming around. In case there is space for me 323 00:18:29,070 --> 00:18:33,270 there. I'll be fat. I'll be I'll be quick on it. Right. And every 324 00:18:33,270 --> 00:18:35,580 industry in the last 10 years has been like that, like, you 325 00:18:35,580 --> 00:18:39,030 know, getting into elearning I got into it, I think 2014 And I 326 00:18:39,030 --> 00:18:42,540 thought I was late, it would have been better 1012 Right. And 327 00:18:42,840 --> 00:18:45,450 YouTube would have been better early and all these things like 328 00:18:45,450 --> 00:18:47,940 cryptocurrency imagining, you know, you can see the charts, 329 00:18:47,940 --> 00:18:50,520 right. All the other businesses have their own charts that are 330 00:18:50,520 --> 00:18:53,430 very similar looking all the other industries. It's just they 331 00:18:53,430 --> 00:18:56,400 don't have charts that show that but they're essentially this 332 00:18:56,430 --> 00:18:58,620 like if you want to get into the mobile apps, okay, 10 years ago 333 00:18:58,620 --> 00:19:05,460 is great now not so great. So all in basically what what I 334 00:19:05,460 --> 00:19:09,450 would be doing is sort of like parting ways with Amazon perhaps 335 00:19:09,900 --> 00:19:12,690 partially because my stuff is already there, but not really 336 00:19:12,720 --> 00:19:16,050 investing too much time a new things there. But really 337 00:19:16,050 --> 00:19:19,680 spending my time looking for new pastures. There's this amazing 338 00:19:19,680 --> 00:19:22,920 quote I found which I hope I don't forget by the time like 339 00:19:22,920 --> 00:19:27,570 the sentence gets to where he reports, but it's something like 340 00:19:27,750 --> 00:19:33,270 you waste years by not being able to waste hours. And it's a 341 00:19:33,270 --> 00:19:38,430 quote about research, right? If you can't try stuff, if you 342 00:19:38,430 --> 00:19:40,620 don't give yourself you know, if you kind of head down just 343 00:19:40,620 --> 00:19:44,070 working, which is what most of us usually are doing. You will 344 00:19:44,070 --> 00:19:48,630 miss those the new Bitcoins, the new meta versus the new whatever 345 00:19:48,630 --> 00:19:55,680 thread and that's where I think the not always but very often 346 00:19:55,710 --> 00:19:58,020 the rewards are very, very disproportionate. 347 00:19:59,250 --> 00:20:00,990 Robert Plank: And yeah, and so There's something to be said 348 00:20:01,020 --> 00:20:05,070 about about experimenting, especially in New Frontiers, new 349 00:20:05,070 --> 00:20:07,560 ideas, new platforms, maybe something that's off the beaten 350 00:20:07,560 --> 00:20:11,250 path from your usual business, your usual day to day, something 351 00:20:11,250 --> 00:20:13,920 that's different from the the competition, you see, because, 352 00:20:14,040 --> 00:20:16,920 as you said earlier, it's about the future, not about the 353 00:20:16,920 --> 00:20:20,130 present. And so the things that are out there right now, and the 354 00:20:20,130 --> 00:20:23,280 competition that's out there right now might not be what is 355 00:20:23,310 --> 00:20:27,450 will be the big hot thing in two years. So, so play around and do 356 00:20:27,450 --> 00:20:30,060 those experiments and create things that people will want 357 00:20:30,420 --> 00:20:33,870 years from now. And that's a that's a cool and a fun way to 358 00:20:33,870 --> 00:20:36,750 think about it. And then this whole idea of, you know, being 359 00:20:36,750 --> 00:20:41,250 in the, in the dwindling age of being the pirate or however you 360 00:20:41,250 --> 00:20:43,740 want to call it, it seems like it's just a fact of life. Like 361 00:20:43,770 --> 00:20:47,070 even, like you heard a lot about this with like the app stores 362 00:20:47,070 --> 00:20:50,010 right with like the Apple and the Google app stores. At first, 363 00:20:50,010 --> 00:20:52,410 it was easy, then there was competition, there was all kinds 364 00:20:52,410 --> 00:20:56,130 of rules, and then you couldn't collect this opt in data. And 365 00:20:56,130 --> 00:20:58,590 then then we're gonna put ads in your apps. And it seems like 366 00:20:58,590 --> 00:21:01,770 just, it's not even unique to any one platform. And in fact, 367 00:21:01,770 --> 00:21:06,090 it seems like those marketplaces that become huge, like Amazon, 368 00:21:06,180 --> 00:21:09,270 it's like they kind of do it on on the backs of the of the hard 369 00:21:09,270 --> 00:21:13,230 working pioneers. And it just seems like the marketplaces that 370 00:21:13,230 --> 00:21:15,810 don't do it are the ones that we don't hear about. So maybe we 371 00:21:15,810 --> 00:21:18,690 just have to say, well, here, these are, what the rules of 372 00:21:18,750 --> 00:21:22,710 life and the Internet and of these huge giants are. So let's 373 00:21:22,710 --> 00:21:26,160 ride the wave. And then, you know, find other waves to ride 374 00:21:26,160 --> 00:21:30,120 and we can all figure out a way to have fun and make money as 375 00:21:30,120 --> 00:21:33,390 long as we know what kind of game that we're playing. So you 376 00:21:33,390 --> 00:21:36,300 mentioned that you're looking for the these new pastures, and 377 00:21:36,300 --> 00:21:40,950 you have the the apps and the courses. So speaking of new 378 00:21:40,950 --> 00:21:44,310 pastures, what is on the horizon for you? What's up and coming 379 00:21:44,310 --> 00:21:44,730 for you? 380 00:21:45,180 --> 00:21:47,190 Unknown: Cool, actually, you know, I wanted to interject a 381 00:21:47,190 --> 00:21:49,560 little bit, because there's an interesting monkey wrench I can 382 00:21:49,560 --> 00:21:54,720 throw into this. Because having said that, it's valuable to 383 00:21:54,720 --> 00:21:58,170 experiment which fine. And having said that, you know, 384 00:21:58,170 --> 00:22:01,770 let's do forward looking things. At the same time, there's so 385 00:22:01,770 --> 00:22:06,240 many forward looking things. Like this year, I experimented a 386 00:22:06,240 --> 00:22:10,140 little bit with NF T's, that non fungible tokens, you know that 387 00:22:10,170 --> 00:22:14,670 it's the art world of cryptocurrency, whatever. And 388 00:22:15,000 --> 00:22:17,010 because you know, I make music. So for me, it's very natural, I 389 00:22:17,010 --> 00:22:19,920 already make things that could be NF T's, right? And it's like, 390 00:22:19,920 --> 00:22:23,070 well, what if I make them into NF T's. And so I spent a little 391 00:22:23,070 --> 00:22:29,850 time experimenting with it. And if you have a lot of these kinds 392 00:22:29,850 --> 00:22:32,280 of things, which there are like, there's NF T's and then there's 393 00:22:33,120 --> 00:22:36,000 different spaces within cryptocurrency, and then there's 394 00:22:36,000 --> 00:22:38,250 not and then there's augmented reality virtual, there's a lot 395 00:22:38,250 --> 00:22:40,590 of stuff that, you know, I can keep, like, like, I can just 396 00:22:40,590 --> 00:22:43,380 keep naming comma this after this, this, this this. So 397 00:22:43,380 --> 00:22:46,620 there's a lot of things. And so at some point, it becomes this 398 00:22:46,620 --> 00:22:50,100 focus. And it's really damaging, which really is exactly the 399 00:22:50,100 --> 00:22:52,620 antithesis of what where we started where it's like, Let's 400 00:22:52,620 --> 00:22:57,600 do 8020 of really good focus. Because once you identify what's 401 00:22:57,600 --> 00:23:02,100 really going to be the lucrative profitable side of your 402 00:23:02,100 --> 00:23:07,650 business. All do hyperfocus on that, perhaps not even at 20, 403 00:23:07,650 --> 00:23:10,770 but like 95, five, or, you know, something like that, right? How 404 00:23:10,770 --> 00:23:14,340 does that it's completely, at least it sounds completely 405 00:23:14,340 --> 00:23:18,000 contradictory to well make time to experiment and do different 406 00:23:18,000 --> 00:23:21,030 things, right, because they sound almost mutually exclusive. 407 00:23:21,450 --> 00:23:25,320 And it's really hard to balance it. Which, which is the art of 408 00:23:25,320 --> 00:23:28,530 it, I think, because you definitely don't want to get in, 409 00:23:28,650 --> 00:23:34,650 stay in stale industries that are slowing in growth, and 410 00:23:34,650 --> 00:23:38,100 having are ending all these problems. But at the same time, 411 00:23:39,270 --> 00:23:43,260 if you don't over focus in one, you're not going to grow in one, 412 00:23:43,260 --> 00:23:45,660 right, like Udemy really requires tremendous focus, 413 00:23:45,660 --> 00:23:48,600 because there's 50,000 other instructors who are like just 414 00:23:48,600 --> 00:23:55,440 waiting to take my students away, right? So I think there is 415 00:23:55,440 --> 00:23:58,980 no like set rule for how to do this, you know, every situation 416 00:23:58,980 --> 00:24:02,550 is a little different. But I kind of give myself at least as 417 00:24:02,550 --> 00:24:06,330 an example. This is not a great example for everyone that 418 00:24:06,330 --> 00:24:09,120 everyone can go and use right away, but at least some kind of 419 00:24:09,120 --> 00:24:13,290 an example that you know, there's every month or two 420 00:24:13,290 --> 00:24:20,040 months, I have something that I experiment with. Very well, like 421 00:24:20,040 --> 00:24:22,590 I give it a good shot, right? Because if you don't if you run 422 00:24:22,590 --> 00:24:26,610 an experiment poorly, and you get poor results, it's not the 423 00:24:26,610 --> 00:24:29,280 thing. It's the experiment, right? The problem was with the 424 00:24:29,280 --> 00:24:32,160 experiment, so as long as I make sure I give it a good experiment 425 00:24:32,160 --> 00:24:35,400 and allocate some time, but I make absolutely sure that the 426 00:24:35,400 --> 00:24:39,300 most important things that I have in my business, whether 427 00:24:39,300 --> 00:24:41,910 it's the most, the best selling courses or the best selling 428 00:24:41,970 --> 00:24:46,170 services or this PLR thing, the private the licensing, that I'm 429 00:24:46,170 --> 00:24:52,680 still devoting a lot of time to that and just taking a little 430 00:24:52,680 --> 00:24:56,820 bit of time off to the new things, but the new things that 431 00:24:56,820 --> 00:24:59,790 are vital, otherwise, we will just become dinosaurs you know 432 00:25:00,840 --> 00:25:03,150 This is, you know, when I study computer science, they're like, 433 00:25:03,180 --> 00:25:05,820 study the new stuff, otherwise, you're going to become a 434 00:25:05,820 --> 00:25:09,570 dinosaur. You know, this is literally how they, maybe it was 435 00:25:09,570 --> 00:25:12,660 just the one teacher I had. But that's, I remember that. People 436 00:25:12,660 --> 00:25:15,240 telling me that. So that's something I wanted to mention, 437 00:25:15,240 --> 00:25:17,760 because it's otherwise without that it's a little bit 438 00:25:17,760 --> 00:25:19,770 contradictory to the points we're making in this 439 00:25:19,770 --> 00:25:21,690 conversation. Yeah, and 440 00:25:21,960 --> 00:25:24,390 Robert Plank: what I'm getting from you're saying, you saying 441 00:25:24,390 --> 00:25:28,080 that is how important it is to be dynamic that like, sometimes 442 00:25:28,080 --> 00:25:31,380 you need to be focusing on on just like the new things, or the 443 00:25:31,380 --> 00:25:34,230 present things or the past things. And if you have those 444 00:25:34,230 --> 00:25:37,230 weaknesses, maybe get someone on your team who is good at, I 445 00:25:37,230 --> 00:25:39,750 mean, in a software example, someone who's good at making the 446 00:25:39,750 --> 00:25:42,570 proof of concept, or someone who's good at fixing the bugs, 447 00:25:42,600 --> 00:25:45,090 or someone who can figure out the user interface. But what I'm 448 00:25:45,090 --> 00:25:48,150 hearing from you saying here is, is if you're too much on one 449 00:25:48,150 --> 00:25:50,850 thing, if you're too much of only experimenting, that's not 450 00:25:50,850 --> 00:25:53,610 good, too much of what's already established, that's not good. 451 00:25:53,610 --> 00:25:56,280 And so you're saying that we need to keep in mind of maybe 452 00:25:56,310 --> 00:25:59,130 doing doing some of each type of action, or each type of 453 00:25:59,130 --> 00:25:59,640 thinking, 454 00:26:00,120 --> 00:26:02,430 Unknown: Yeah, and just being really good at prioritizing. So 455 00:26:02,430 --> 00:26:09,810 like, for example, like my Udemy, I spend a bulk of time 456 00:26:09,870 --> 00:26:13,560 perfecting my courses, and make new courses every once in a 457 00:26:13,560 --> 00:26:18,000 while, but I very intensely work in perfecting the old ones. And 458 00:26:18,000 --> 00:26:21,090 then at the same time Udemy. The other point I forgot to make 459 00:26:21,450 --> 00:26:25,890 just now is that the other thing that's extremely synergistic is 460 00:26:25,890 --> 00:26:28,050 the licensing, right? The more courses they have, the better 461 00:26:28,050 --> 00:26:30,540 they are, the better the licensing business will work. 462 00:26:30,690 --> 00:26:35,040 They're extremely synergistic. Whereas the NFT, they felt 463 00:26:35,040 --> 00:26:38,430 synergistic to the music, but they kind of weren't as it 464 00:26:38,430 --> 00:26:45,990 played out. And so he still, there's a priority of like, I 465 00:26:45,990 --> 00:26:48,750 have a hyper priority on the thing that's working with just 466 00:26:48,750 --> 00:26:50,790 the courses and the licensing, and they're they they work well 467 00:26:50,790 --> 00:26:54,540 together. So it's kind of they help each other it's not a total 468 00:26:54,540 --> 00:26:58,650 this focus. But then outside of that, everything else gets a 469 00:26:58,650 --> 00:27:03,360 tiny bit of time, including in that the experimentation. So 470 00:27:03,390 --> 00:27:06,570 yes, you should be dynamic. But also, if something is working, 471 00:27:06,810 --> 00:27:09,900 really give it a great effort, because it's super competitive. 472 00:27:09,930 --> 00:27:11,940 And if it's not, it's going to be in you're going to get ahead. 473 00:27:13,080 --> 00:27:16,680 Robert Plank: Interesting, yeah, like have that prioritization. 474 00:27:16,710 --> 00:27:19,920 So that way, if something is not really proven, or is this kind 475 00:27:19,920 --> 00:27:22,380 of something you're doing on the side, maybe that gets a little 476 00:27:22,380 --> 00:27:24,810 bit of a percentage of your time. But if something is 477 00:27:24,810 --> 00:27:27,780 showing promise that something is working better than expected, 478 00:27:27,780 --> 00:27:30,660 or taking off faster than you thought, maybe you can inflate 479 00:27:30,660 --> 00:27:34,260 that to take up more of your day, at least temporarily, to 480 00:27:34,260 --> 00:27:37,350 actually give it the attention it deserves. So that way, you're 481 00:27:37,350 --> 00:27:39,510 not stuck in the thing you're mentioning at the beginning, 482 00:27:39,510 --> 00:27:43,170 where if all of your all of your side projects are just split up 483 00:27:43,200 --> 00:27:46,080 equally, if you have like 25 different side projects, and 484 00:27:46,080 --> 00:27:49,650 nothing gets focused, nothing gets priority or attention, then 485 00:27:49,650 --> 00:27:52,590 it's just there's no progress being made. So that's it's 486 00:27:52,590 --> 00:27:55,560 interesting to think about that kind of there's the there's like 487 00:27:55,560 --> 00:27:59,610 dynamic pneus, not just in being able to switch gears, but also 488 00:27:59,610 --> 00:28:03,720 in the feedback and saying, if this if this Amazon book or this 489 00:28:03,720 --> 00:28:06,750 app, or this Udemy course, or this NFT I'm putting out 490 00:28:06,750 --> 00:28:09,780 suddenly gets its attention. Let me put everything else on pause 491 00:28:09,780 --> 00:28:12,780 or let me slow everything else down and just focus on that. 492 00:28:13,260 --> 00:28:19,260 While there's still time to do it. Yeah. Well, awesome. Well, 493 00:28:19,260 --> 00:28:21,900 there's been so much to think about and, and even just talking 494 00:28:21,900 --> 00:28:24,210 to you makes you feel like I need to get to work and get to 495 00:28:24,270 --> 00:28:29,010 getting all those things. Check it in. Yes, no. But before it 496 00:28:29,010 --> 00:28:32,370 takes off, and who knows, maybe soon you'll have a Udemy course 497 00:28:32,370 --> 00:28:36,240 and an Amazon book and an app about how to make an NFT. With 498 00:28:36,240 --> 00:28:38,100 your music specifically, or something like that, there's 499 00:28:38,100 --> 00:28:40,830 always there's always that whole idea of you're doing something 500 00:28:40,830 --> 00:28:43,140 and he can prove that it works. And you can teach it and then 501 00:28:43,140 --> 00:28:46,260 you can license it, it can all connect or some of it can 502 00:28:46,260 --> 00:28:49,650 connect in ways that you just have to kind of let sit and 503 00:28:49,650 --> 00:28:53,610 think about for months or years until you finally make the 504 00:28:53,610 --> 00:28:57,330 connections. And so and also what comes to mind too, is the 505 00:28:57,330 --> 00:29:00,000 kind of there's some kind of Steve Jobs thing that he's 506 00:29:00,000 --> 00:29:03,270 always always used to mention about how there's like the the 507 00:29:03,270 --> 00:29:06,810 object that technology the tool, but there's also what you create 508 00:29:06,810 --> 00:29:11,100 with it. Like you just think about how how how well that 509 00:29:11,130 --> 00:29:14,100 iPhones and iPads took off because the focus was on the 510 00:29:14,100 --> 00:29:17,430 apps or there was one one of the iteration of the launch iPad 511 00:29:17,430 --> 00:29:20,370 where they said, Well, you know, you can like play musical 512 00:29:20,370 --> 00:29:22,980 instruments on it and you can like collaborate and you can do 513 00:29:22,980 --> 00:29:26,190 drawing and things like that, as opposed to just saying, Here's 514 00:29:26,190 --> 00:29:30,240 how many gigahertz and gigabytes are in this. They said, Well, 515 00:29:30,240 --> 00:29:33,330 you know, numbers and the the tool is great, but what can you 516 00:29:33,330 --> 00:29:36,780 do with the tool? I'm hearing a lot of that from you as far as 517 00:29:36,780 --> 00:29:39,750 like, you know, use NF T's to sell your music and use the 518 00:29:39,750 --> 00:29:42,630 metaverse for this function. That's an important reminder, 519 00:29:42,630 --> 00:29:45,990 just like it's not just about the tool. It's it's the the 520 00:29:45,990 --> 00:29:47,850 creative output you get from it. 521 00:29:49,530 --> 00:29:52,620 Unknown: Yeah, especially in in the NFT. Also, but in the 522 00:29:52,620 --> 00:29:56,610 metaverse like, we can create things. I mean, it's a little 523 00:29:56,610 --> 00:30:00,000 technical, so we can't create everything but it's an open 524 00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:05,880 Field where, you know, it's the mobile apps of 2008. Right now 525 00:30:05,880 --> 00:30:10,170 is kind of like the that world of the metaverse. 526 00:30:11,040 --> 00:30:15,210 Robert Plank: Cool. So it's it's never too late, as long as you 527 00:30:15,210 --> 00:30:18,030 pay attention to what the new up and coming thing is. And so 528 00:30:18,030 --> 00:30:21,390 something that stood out to me when we spoke five years ago is 529 00:30:21,510 --> 00:30:24,300 I think at that time, if you didn't even have a website, a 530 00:30:24,300 --> 00:30:27,420 hub, it was always you'll find me on there. So that platform 531 00:30:27,420 --> 00:30:30,270 and so you have so many things going on. Is there a website? 532 00:30:30,270 --> 00:30:32,940 Now? Is there a hub where someone can go and find out 533 00:30:32,940 --> 00:30:35,820 everything that you're doing all in one place? Or is it still go 534 00:30:35,820 --> 00:30:36,510 here in there? 535 00:30:36,900 --> 00:30:39,480 Unknown: is yes, there is there's there's two really one 536 00:30:39,480 --> 00:30:42,810 for my music and one for everything business related. So 537 00:30:42,840 --> 00:30:45,030 my website for business, the business related website is 538 00:30:45,090 --> 00:30:49,380 problemi oh.com, which is a domain I got a million years 539 00:30:49,380 --> 00:30:52,560 ago, and every time I say it's feels a little funny, but it's 540 00:30:52,590 --> 00:30:58,620 problem io.com And the music website where I have everything 541 00:30:58,620 --> 00:31:00,660 is touched by a song that calm, 542 00:31:01,950 --> 00:31:04,890 Robert Plank: fantastic, touched by a song calm to find out about 543 00:31:04,890 --> 00:31:09,150 Alex's music, and then per Blimey yo.com to discover about 544 00:31:09,150 --> 00:31:12,840 his business, mobile apps and everything else he has going on. 545 00:31:12,900 --> 00:31:15,690 And so as we're wrapping up winding down our conversation, 546 00:31:15,690 --> 00:31:18,960 Alex, do you think there's anything that we left out didn't 547 00:31:18,960 --> 00:31:21,060 have time for that you want to throw in at the end here? 548 00:31:22,890 --> 00:31:25,140 Unknown: Well, actually, I'm the most excited about the music, 549 00:31:25,140 --> 00:31:29,490 you know, because, and also in light of our conversation, 550 00:31:29,490 --> 00:31:33,510 because because since we touch on things that are difficult, 551 00:31:33,630 --> 00:31:39,240 how to promote things, music is the hardest one. Like, it's 552 00:31:39,240 --> 00:31:42,960 impossible, right? Because all the famous musicians, they have, 553 00:31:44,310 --> 00:31:49,320 you know, studios and a bunch of money thrown at them. And even 554 00:31:49,320 --> 00:31:52,050 though they're not the best, like like the mainstream top 40 555 00:31:52,050 --> 00:31:55,950 hits, that they're all signed by a record label, which pushes 556 00:31:55,950 --> 00:31:58,080 them, right, they have connections to television, they 557 00:31:58,080 --> 00:32:01,890 have connections to radio, they that so if you're an independent 558 00:32:01,890 --> 00:32:07,380 musician, you have to be the most on top of your game, it's 559 00:32:07,380 --> 00:32:10,350 harder than Amazon, it's harder than Udemy, it's harder than 560 00:32:10,530 --> 00:32:15,090 just about any industry. Because you're already at a tremendous 561 00:32:15,090 --> 00:32:19,140 disadvantage just from the people, you have to be better at 562 00:32:19,200 --> 00:32:23,040 have millions of dollars behind them from the studio and 563 00:32:23,040 --> 00:32:27,180 connections and everything you ever dream up they have. So that 564 00:32:27,180 --> 00:32:31,230 actually is fascinating for me, because obviously I'm you know, 565 00:32:31,260 --> 00:32:34,860 amateur musician, but I'm like, you know, sometimes I think to 566 00:32:34,860 --> 00:32:38,070 myself, I'm like, Well, I know marketing. And I know, 567 00:32:38,070 --> 00:32:40,530 productivity, and I know it's professional skills, perhaps I 568 00:32:40,530 --> 00:32:43,650 have a chance, right? Because maybe I can, it can be kind of 569 00:32:43,650 --> 00:32:46,950 an equalizer. But I, you know, obviously music has to become 570 00:32:46,950 --> 00:32:49,500 better. And all the time, I'm focusing on trying to make the 571 00:32:49,500 --> 00:32:52,050 music better. Because if you, you know, it's like, you know, 572 00:32:52,050 --> 00:32:55,140 the domain is touched by a song. But if a listener is not touched 573 00:32:56,070 --> 00:32:59,130 in objectively, in their own experience, regardless of what I 574 00:32:59,130 --> 00:33:01,770 think about the music, then then nothing, you know, they're not 575 00:33:01,770 --> 00:33:08,280 coming back. Right? So I think focusing on the product quality 576 00:33:09,000 --> 00:33:15,630 in this, it like in a hyper way, just like I've been focusing on 577 00:33:15,630 --> 00:33:20,340 Udemy product quality. But this requires like, it's not just the 578 00:33:20,340 --> 00:33:24,120 product people consume. It's a product that has to make people 579 00:33:24,120 --> 00:33:31,260 feel something kind of and not like feel happy for a second Oh, 580 00:33:31,260 --> 00:33:33,480 I learned something. But she'll something deeper, right, like 581 00:33:33,480 --> 00:33:36,930 music does, is actually tremendously hard to create. And 582 00:33:36,930 --> 00:33:41,790 it's perhaps like my biggest challenge that I have. So from a 583 00:33:41,820 --> 00:33:44,550 from a business and productivity perspective, I think that's 584 00:33:44,850 --> 00:33:48,270 quite fascinating. It's too bad. We got to get to it at the end 585 00:33:48,270 --> 00:33:54,330 of the interview. But this right now is what sort of is breaking 586 00:33:54,330 --> 00:33:58,920 my brain right now? Like, how do I crack this? And how do I you 587 00:33:58,920 --> 00:34:05,640 know, how do I do this? So that maybe we'll say that for next 588 00:34:05,640 --> 00:34:07,800 time. If we do another one, we're like, let's see how your 589 00:34:07,800 --> 00:34:10,860 music went? Did it fail entirely? Or did you find the 590 00:34:10,860 --> 00:34:15,480 way? What was the key because you can succeed in music, as an 591 00:34:15,480 --> 00:34:18,810 independent musician, you can do anything, because it's the 592 00:34:18,840 --> 00:34:22,560 there's nothing, you know, it's like maybe being a comedian is 593 00:34:22,560 --> 00:34:26,580 also as hard but like, or, you know, but competing against 594 00:34:26,580 --> 00:34:32,040 these studios, or record labels is just so difficult that it's a 595 00:34:32,040 --> 00:34:33,690 cool challenge to maybe discuss next time. 596 00:34:34,560 --> 00:34:37,020 Robert Plank: Yet, we will have to have you back to discuss 597 00:34:37,020 --> 00:34:40,350 music specifically. And I have guests, I've had to have guests 598 00:34:40,350 --> 00:34:43,860 before where they're their brains or our musicians plus 599 00:34:43,860 --> 00:34:45,780 programmers. And that's interesting to think about too 600 00:34:45,780 --> 00:34:49,440 because I mean, think about how hard programming is in general 601 00:34:49,440 --> 00:34:52,680 and like building like these, these bigger and bigger systems 602 00:34:52,680 --> 00:34:55,830 and trying to find like the one single little bug and accounting 603 00:34:55,830 --> 00:34:59,160 for all these different things. It there's a lot of parallels 604 00:34:59,160 --> 00:35:03,420 there with Like the math and the music and the discipline and the 605 00:35:03,420 --> 00:35:07,140 creativity, and the thinking outside the box and taking on 606 00:35:07,140 --> 00:35:10,530 these big, almost impossible challenges, but it sounds like 607 00:35:10,530 --> 00:35:12,900 you're having fun and you're, you're kind of doing the things 608 00:35:12,900 --> 00:35:16,440 that are, are paying the bills, but then also using these skills 609 00:35:16,440 --> 00:35:19,020 and even like, you know, like marketing and, and things like 610 00:35:19,020 --> 00:35:22,320 that and, and applying them into the music. And I think that we 611 00:35:22,320 --> 00:35:26,100 can all relate to, to being being touched by music in some 612 00:35:26,100 --> 00:35:31,470 way of well, this song makes me excited or sad, or reminds me 613 00:35:31,470 --> 00:35:35,820 from being a teenager or evokes this memory. And yeah, if you 614 00:35:35,820 --> 00:35:40,860 can crack that, that nut Alex, if you can kind of create a 615 00:35:40,860 --> 00:35:45,570 catchy song that ticks all the boxes that it's if it's a like, 616 00:35:45,690 --> 00:35:49,560 like popular, but also is emotional and deep and really 617 00:35:49,560 --> 00:35:52,440 sticks. I mean, that can be your legacy, right? That can be the 618 00:35:52,560 --> 00:35:55,350 thing that you're remembered for, in the same way that 619 00:35:55,380 --> 00:35:58,080 they're still playing like Mozart and Beethoven and things 620 00:35:58,080 --> 00:36:01,770 like that, like centuries later, like this, this person created 621 00:36:01,800 --> 00:36:05,100 this song that lasts forever. I mean, that's an awesome goal to 622 00:36:05,100 --> 00:36:05,850 aspire to. 623 00:36:06,600 --> 00:36:08,940 Unknown: Yeah, and actually funny, you say that. I don't 624 00:36:08,940 --> 00:36:12,120 even have to wrap up my post, I have a song that I made, that 625 00:36:12,120 --> 00:36:16,380 really recently released that actually, I put Beethoven into a 626 00:36:16,380 --> 00:36:20,130 contemporary song, you know, that that fifth Fifth Symphony 627 00:36:20,130 --> 00:36:22,830 from Beethoven. It's, it's the metaphor for it is like a knock 628 00:36:22,830 --> 00:36:24,360 on your door, like, you know, what are you doing with your 629 00:36:24,360 --> 00:36:27,780 life kind of thing. And so I have the song, a contemporary 630 00:36:27,780 --> 00:36:30,480 song, where there's like a person going mad, we're like, 631 00:36:30,780 --> 00:36:32,820 I'm not gonna accomplish anything, you know, like, I'm 632 00:36:32,820 --> 00:36:35,640 not, I'm not gonna set up to achieve my goal, which is kind 633 00:36:35,640 --> 00:36:40,950 of, strangely enough a productivity topic as well. But 634 00:36:40,980 --> 00:36:45,720 I have that that motif and Beethoven in the song in the 635 00:36:45,720 --> 00:36:49,260 story of a song where the guys like driven mad by Beethoven. So 636 00:36:49,290 --> 00:36:52,890 maybe that'll be a good note to wrap up on which maybe intrigue 637 00:36:52,890 --> 00:36:56,040 people enough to go and check it out. And so touched by a song 638 00:36:56,070 --> 00:36:59,550 that calm and it's the Beethoven song or whatever it's called, 639 00:36:59,550 --> 00:37:02,370 it's called, I think I call it the one who didn't, cuz he's 640 00:37:02,370 --> 00:37:06,060 like, What if I become the one who didn't? So maybe that'd be a 641 00:37:06,060 --> 00:37:13,890 fun note to fun note to Yes, to end on. And something a little 642 00:37:13,890 --> 00:37:15,780 bit more fun than just, you know, dry business. 643 00:37:16,440 --> 00:37:19,920 Robert Plank: As you know, Alex, we want to keep people thirsty, 644 00:37:19,950 --> 00:37:22,560 right? You want to put out the course or brought out the book 645 00:37:22,560 --> 00:37:25,650 and give together something worthwhile, but also say at the 646 00:37:25,650 --> 00:37:28,170 end, like, hey, you know, there's this other courses other 647 00:37:28,170 --> 00:37:30,870 book, I want you to check out or join my mailing list. And so 648 00:37:30,870 --> 00:37:34,320 that is, that is the cliffhanger right there. We're saying we've 649 00:37:34,320 --> 00:37:37,380 given people so much to think about and so much to kind of 650 00:37:37,380 --> 00:37:41,460 ponder as far as pursuing their dreams before they run out of 651 00:37:41,460 --> 00:37:45,360 time, because life is finite, life is limited, their time is 652 00:37:45,360 --> 00:37:48,060 limited. There's always these distractions, we need to take 653 00:37:48,060 --> 00:37:51,390 action and create things and also finish things and also be 654 00:37:51,390 --> 00:37:54,870 productive and put things out in the marketplace and get feedback 655 00:37:54,870 --> 00:37:58,950 and iterate. But we also want to get it to be good enough 656 00:37:58,980 --> 00:38:01,860 approaching perfection always knowing that well, we there's 657 00:38:01,920 --> 00:38:05,160 other things that need to be done. And so we've got the we 658 00:38:05,160 --> 00:38:08,220 got a satisfied as far as speaking about Amazon apps and 659 00:38:08,220 --> 00:38:12,120 Udemy. But now that your curiosity is piqued by you want 660 00:38:12,120 --> 00:38:15,000 to say well, like this music Alex is talking about sounds 661 00:38:15,000 --> 00:38:17,730 interesting, I want to find out what the heck he's talking about 662 00:38:17,790 --> 00:38:21,690 touched by a song.com is the place to go to hear about that 663 00:38:21,690 --> 00:38:26,010 song Alex is Alex was referring to and also just to see what 664 00:38:26,010 --> 00:38:29,730 he's created there and what he's established and what you too can 665 00:38:29,730 --> 00:38:32,880 do, no matter what your current hang up is or what your dream 666 00:38:32,880 --> 00:38:35,370 is. I mean, I know we all have ideas, and we say, you know, 667 00:38:35,400 --> 00:38:38,790 someday I want to create the book or create the course, well, 668 00:38:38,790 --> 00:38:41,760 maybe someday can be now at least in a small way, start 669 00:38:41,760 --> 00:38:45,540 taking some action because as if you looked into any kind of time 670 00:38:45,540 --> 00:38:47,640 management, you know that there's there's discipline and 671 00:38:47,640 --> 00:38:50,310 motivation, which means that so many times we say I don't want 672 00:38:50,310 --> 00:38:52,470 to do this, I don't want to do this. And once you start doing 673 00:38:52,470 --> 00:38:54,900 it, it's kind of fun, right? Even like just gonna, you know, 674 00:38:54,900 --> 00:38:57,480 sweeping the floor. Once you start sweeping the floor, like 675 00:38:57,480 --> 00:38:59,790 whoa, I'm feeling good that I'm actually getting something 676 00:38:59,820 --> 00:39:03,030 accomplished. And so touched by a song calm is the place to 677 00:39:03,030 --> 00:39:06,510 check out Alex's music, and problemi Oh, calm is the place 678 00:39:06,510 --> 00:39:10,680 to find out about his apps. Any other links or job or is it time 679 00:39:10,680 --> 00:39:12,390 to just wrap things up here, Alex? 680 00:39:12,570 --> 00:39:15,450 Unknown: I think this is pretty much it. I also want to give you 681 00:39:15,510 --> 00:39:18,390 applause for you know, keeping the podcast going for a while, 682 00:39:19,020 --> 00:39:22,590 you know, a lot of people start and they just you know, quit but 683 00:39:22,620 --> 00:39:26,010 you've done a great job by keeping it going. So it's 684 00:39:26,040 --> 00:39:28,020 timeless, give you a hand also. 685 00:39:28,560 --> 00:39:31,650 Robert Plank: All right. It's always good to take a brief 686 00:39:31,650 --> 00:39:34,500 pause from the day to day and the Breakneck tasks and just 687 00:39:34,500 --> 00:39:37,050 say, Okay, let me look at what I've accomplished and get 688 00:39:37,050 --> 00:39:39,450 reenergized and recharge the batteries move on to what's 689 00:39:39,450 --> 00:39:43,200 next. And so we've had Alex Ghana Denecke on the show, one 690 00:39:43,200 --> 00:39:46,920 of our first guests and five years later we caught up so 691 00:39:46,920 --> 00:39:50,310 problemi Oh, calm, touched by a song.com and we'll see you 692 00:39:50,310 --> 00:39:57,270 there. Do you wish you had a podcast just like this one? Do 693 00:39:57,270 --> 00:40:00,180 you wish you did more with your podcast like getting More 694 00:40:00,180 --> 00:40:04,350 traffic, being active on social media getting more guests better 695 00:40:04,350 --> 00:40:08,010 guests or you being a guest another podcast or maybe you 696 00:40:08,010 --> 00:40:11,490 just want your podcast to suit the same but you don't want the 697 00:40:11,490 --> 00:40:15,120 time commitment you currently put into your podcast if any or 698 00:40:15,120 --> 00:40:18,300 all of that sounds great to you go right now to Def Why 699 00:40:18,300 --> 00:40:24,180 podcast.com/free to claim your 12 podcast boosters