1 00:00:05,880 --> 00:00:10,380 Robert Plank: She spent 40 years shaping the future of education 2 00:00:10,440 --> 00:00:15,420 and then risked it all to live out her truth. It's Dr Renee M 3 00:00:15,420 --> 00:00:19,560 Scott. She is the former VP of Student Success, college 4 00:00:19,560 --> 00:00:23,720 president now the author of How can they hear without a 5 00:00:23,720 --> 00:00:27,860 preacher? And she boldly reconciled her Christian faith 6 00:00:27,920 --> 00:00:33,140 with her LGBTQ plus identity. So we're here to talk about our 7 00:00:33,140 --> 00:00:37,280 identity, about our faith, about academia, the real simple, easy 8 00:00:37,280 --> 00:00:39,980 stuff, right? There's nothing to unpack there about these 9 00:00:39,980 --> 00:00:43,360 subjects. Just kidding. And so, Renee, glad to see you. Glad to 10 00:00:43,420 --> 00:00:44,020 be speaking with 11 00:00:44,440 --> 00:00:46,840 Renay Scott: you. Oh, Robert, it's good to speak with you and 12 00:00:46,840 --> 00:00:48,700 your audience, yes. 13 00:00:48,700 --> 00:00:51,100 Robert Plank: And so to get us an idea of what you're all 14 00:00:51,100 --> 00:00:54,520 about, tell us what has you passionate, excited focus these 15 00:00:54,520 --> 00:00:55,000 days? 16 00:00:55,479 --> 00:00:57,879 Renay Scott: You know, I one of the things that I'm enjoying 17 00:00:57,879 --> 00:01:01,679 these days is teaching the next generation of leaders. You know, 18 00:01:01,679 --> 00:01:04,139 I've been blessed to have a great career through many 19 00:01:04,139 --> 00:01:08,579 different organizations in higher education, and now I'm 20 00:01:08,579 --> 00:01:12,299 back in the classroom and in preparing the next generation, 21 00:01:12,539 --> 00:01:17,099 probably for quite a quite a ride, given the nature of higher 22 00:01:17,099 --> 00:01:19,019 education these days, of 23 00:01:19,020 --> 00:01:21,920 Robert Plank: course. And I never know what to think about 24 00:01:21,920 --> 00:01:25,460 higher education? I know that for at least here I'm in 25 00:01:25,460 --> 00:01:28,760 California, I was on staff a little bit at CSU Stanislaus, 26 00:01:28,760 --> 00:01:31,880 and they were having budget problems like 10 to 15 years 27 00:01:31,880 --> 00:01:36,620 ago. Never mind the pandemic and all the Zoom classes, and then 28 00:01:36,620 --> 00:01:41,260 you have aI coming up, and then a lot of the careers and 29 00:01:41,260 --> 00:01:45,460 companies say, well, college isn't as much of a requirement 30 00:01:45,580 --> 00:01:48,160 as it used to be. There's other paths, and it just seems like 31 00:01:48,160 --> 00:01:51,940 such a mess. So help us out. What the heck is going on with 32 00:01:52,000 --> 00:01:53,500 higher education these days? 33 00:01:54,280 --> 00:01:57,040 Renay Scott: Well, I wish I know I could probably end up being a 34 00:01:57,040 --> 00:02:01,380 consultant somewhere. No, you know, one of the things that I 35 00:02:01,380 --> 00:02:04,680 am seeing in higher education today, especially with respect 36 00:02:04,680 --> 00:02:07,800 to the work we do in the classroom and the employers who 37 00:02:07,800 --> 00:02:12,180 hire our graduates, it's far less about content knowledge and 38 00:02:12,180 --> 00:02:16,200 way more about skills and having those 21st Century Skills, which 39 00:02:16,200 --> 00:02:20,700 is around adaptation, resilience, persistence, being 40 00:02:20,700 --> 00:02:22,980 able to work with people that are very different than you 41 00:02:22,980 --> 00:02:26,780 different than you you can know an absolute ton, but AI can 42 00:02:26,780 --> 00:02:30,860 generate that faster than most of our brains can. But you know, 43 00:02:30,860 --> 00:02:34,040 you still have to be able to work with people and get the 44 00:02:34,040 --> 00:02:38,180 projects done and have that customer service and employers 45 00:02:38,180 --> 00:02:39,680 are looking for different things. 46 00:02:40,280 --> 00:02:42,940 Robert Plank: Okay, so you're saying that the what you learn 47 00:02:43,060 --> 00:02:46,540 in higher education is maybe foundational, but it might get 48 00:02:46,540 --> 00:02:49,480 out of date. Might have to adapt and update, but then something 49 00:02:49,480 --> 00:02:52,480 that never will go out of style, that maybe we need to focus on 50 00:02:52,600 --> 00:02:56,320 are these social skills, these people skills, the human 51 00:02:56,320 --> 00:03:00,100 element. And when you see the up and comer kids these days, 52 00:03:00,160 --> 00:03:03,240 there's the stereotypes, right? They say, Well, they're the Tick 53 00:03:03,240 --> 00:03:06,000 Tock generation. They just want the app to do the work for them. 54 00:03:06,000 --> 00:03:09,000 But that's just me as an old fuddy duddy seeing things. What 55 00:03:09,000 --> 00:03:11,940 do you see? Where are the kids in higher education really 56 00:03:11,940 --> 00:03:14,040 hurting these days? You 57 00:03:14,040 --> 00:03:16,860 Renay Scott: know? I think one of the things that many people 58 00:03:16,860 --> 00:03:20,660 in our in my generation, has maybe misunderstood about the 59 00:03:20,660 --> 00:03:25,400 the younger generation is they very much want to work in life 60 00:03:25,400 --> 00:03:29,600 balance. And we just talked about it. We talked about having 61 00:03:29,600 --> 00:03:32,000 it all. We talked about being, you know, mothers in the 62 00:03:32,000 --> 00:03:36,020 workplace and living a balanced life. These young people today 63 00:03:36,020 --> 00:03:39,740 actually practice it. You know, they want to be able to work out 64 00:03:39,740 --> 00:03:42,940 after school or after work, they really want to have a social 65 00:03:42,940 --> 00:03:46,240 life, and so the thing they've been able to do is leverage 66 00:03:46,240 --> 00:03:50,320 technology to be more efficient in the work that they do, so 67 00:03:50,320 --> 00:03:53,740 that they don't have to work those 1214, hour days that maybe 68 00:03:53,740 --> 00:03:58,780 some of us did, or the overtime. And I kind of admire that, 69 00:03:58,780 --> 00:04:03,060 because when I step back and remove the idea that they don't 70 00:04:03,060 --> 00:04:07,200 have the work ethic that this generation had. They do have the 71 00:04:07,200 --> 00:04:10,080 work ethic. They just don't want to work all the time. And I 72 00:04:10,080 --> 00:04:12,000 think there's something to be said about that, 73 00:04:12,420 --> 00:04:15,540 Robert Plank: oh yeah, like they want to be more efficient and 74 00:04:15,540 --> 00:04:19,020 get it done just in less time. But it seems like there's just 75 00:04:19,020 --> 00:04:21,560 such a tug of work going on, doesn't there? It seems like, 76 00:04:21,560 --> 00:04:25,580 Okay, well, I can use AI to kind of multiply my productivity and 77 00:04:25,580 --> 00:04:29,360 get all a lot of automation and point and click and all this 78 00:04:29,360 --> 00:04:32,840 stuff. But then there's also this expectation of, like, I 79 00:04:32,840 --> 00:04:36,800 want my workers to get the notifications and see the slacks 80 00:04:36,800 --> 00:04:39,620 and the texts and the emails and so what do you think about all 81 00:04:39,620 --> 00:04:43,540 that? Like the younger generation, they want to have 82 00:04:43,540 --> 00:04:46,780 the work life balance. But is it possible? Because it seems like 83 00:04:46,780 --> 00:04:50,800 there's simultaneously this pull of needing to always be on. 84 00:04:52,180 --> 00:04:55,060 Renay Scott: Yeah, that is the one thing technology does is, 85 00:04:55,060 --> 00:04:59,080 you know, you're connected 24/7 and I think if there's one 86 00:04:59,080 --> 00:05:04,860 concern I have. This generation is they don't unplug. You know, 87 00:05:05,040 --> 00:05:08,640 the phone can ring for me, and I can make a choice answer and not 88 00:05:08,640 --> 00:05:12,480 answer. And if I'm in a place where I'm out walking and 89 00:05:12,480 --> 00:05:15,900 enjoying nature, I'm not going to answer. But I see this 90 00:05:15,900 --> 00:05:19,740 generation, they're plugged in, so they're expecting to answer. 91 00:05:20,040 --> 00:05:23,540 You know, my students, when I teach online, they may send me 92 00:05:24,260 --> 00:05:29,300 an email at 4am they expect an answer by 630 and and so there 93 00:05:29,300 --> 00:05:31,940 is that tug of war that we have got to figure out how to 94 00:05:31,940 --> 00:05:35,840 navigate. You know, just because you can doesn't mean you should. 95 00:05:36,200 --> 00:05:40,340 And how do we teach that type of a balance? Ooh, okay. 96 00:05:40,400 --> 00:05:42,640 Robert Plank: And so how does all all this kind of 97 00:05:42,640 --> 00:05:46,600 philosophizing fit in with you and your teaching? Because 98 00:05:46,600 --> 00:05:49,840 sometimes, you know, we go to college and and university to 99 00:05:50,140 --> 00:05:54,160 experience new ideas. We you know you want to learn math and 100 00:05:54,160 --> 00:05:57,040 physics and science and all that stuff, but we also want to learn 101 00:05:57,220 --> 00:06:00,900 about culture and lifestyle and those sorts of things. And so 102 00:06:00,900 --> 00:06:04,800 what area do you teach? What's your department? 103 00:06:05,580 --> 00:06:08,100 Renay Scott: So I teach in educational leadership and 104 00:06:08,100 --> 00:06:12,120 administration, and really focus a lot about how organizations 105 00:06:12,120 --> 00:06:16,860 operate, with a lens on the different types of organizations 106 00:06:16,860 --> 00:06:21,440 within higher ed, but also that notion of leadership and that 107 00:06:21,440 --> 00:06:24,980 opportunity gives me a chance to work with students and really 108 00:06:24,980 --> 00:06:29,120 probe some of their philosophies around leadership. You know, 109 00:06:29,120 --> 00:06:32,540 just because you can be available 24/7, I'll ask the 110 00:06:32,540 --> 00:06:37,340 question and really probe them through a Socratic method to try 111 00:06:37,340 --> 00:06:41,440 to really think about what they want out of their career and how 112 00:06:41,440 --> 00:06:44,860 they can actually get it through more of a thoughtful, deliberate 113 00:06:44,860 --> 00:06:48,280 approach to being leaders. And that doesn't necessarily mean 114 00:06:48,280 --> 00:06:51,580 you have to be a vice president. You can lead where you're at by 115 00:06:51,580 --> 00:06:53,560 example, which is really important today, 116 00:06:54,220 --> 00:06:57,220 Robert Plank: and I think that's a really tough concept to 117 00:06:57,220 --> 00:07:00,480 understand, but it's like right there hiding in plain sight for 118 00:07:00,480 --> 00:07:04,860 us, right, that leadership is everywhere, and a leader doesn't 119 00:07:04,860 --> 00:07:07,740 mean that you're necessarily bossing people around. You give 120 00:07:07,740 --> 00:07:11,280 your power away, and those people also working around your 121 00:07:11,280 --> 00:07:15,480 organization. They also lead, and you also lead at home with 122 00:07:15,480 --> 00:07:18,300 your family. You kind of know what you want. You have some 123 00:07:18,300 --> 00:07:21,140 goals, you have your boundaries, you nurture, you ask questions, 124 00:07:21,140 --> 00:07:24,920 you communicate. It all sounds good in theory, but how does 125 00:07:24,920 --> 00:07:29,420 that translate into like, what needs to be done to be a good 126 00:07:29,420 --> 00:07:30,800 leader? What are the actions? 127 00:07:32,000 --> 00:07:34,760 Renay Scott: Yeah, I think you know, one of the hardest things 128 00:07:34,760 --> 00:07:39,500 that for me as a leader is, you know, I can say and talk about 129 00:07:39,500 --> 00:07:43,180 empowerment of the folks that you know either report to me or 130 00:07:43,180 --> 00:07:45,460 work on the front lines with students when I was in 131 00:07:45,460 --> 00:07:49,300 administrative positions. But that has that means I have to be 132 00:07:49,420 --> 00:07:53,320 open to ideas, sometimes, ideas that I as a leader may be 133 00:07:53,320 --> 00:07:57,040 uncomfortable with or maybe just plain new to me and I'm not 134 00:07:57,040 --> 00:08:01,260 familiar with them. And so how do we encourage those folks on 135 00:08:01,260 --> 00:08:06,060 the front lines who oftentimes have information that people in 136 00:08:06,060 --> 00:08:09,600 positions of management in the middle and the top aren't aware 137 00:08:09,600 --> 00:08:13,200 of, and yet, often, those of us that move to the middle or the 138 00:08:13,200 --> 00:08:16,740 top of an organizational chart, we've gotten there because we've 139 00:08:16,740 --> 00:08:21,020 been highly successful, maybe on our own, and We're not as open 140 00:08:21,020 --> 00:08:25,760 to ideas. So how do I you know the challenge I face is coming 141 00:08:25,760 --> 00:08:30,080 up with the disposition and teaching folks how to be open 142 00:08:30,080 --> 00:08:34,880 minded, taking a risk, allowing others to take the lead, even 143 00:08:34,880 --> 00:08:37,400 though you're the one who's going to be held accountable for 144 00:08:37,400 --> 00:08:40,160 it. That's a that's a big challenge with leaders today. 145 00:08:40,640 --> 00:08:43,300 Robert Plank: Yeah, that seems like a lot to navigate, to be 146 00:08:43,360 --> 00:08:47,500 open to ideas and let others take the risks and and, you 147 00:08:47,500 --> 00:08:50,860 know, don't be so rigid and think these things through. And 148 00:08:50,860 --> 00:08:54,220 I know that, speaking of being open to new ideas, you have this 149 00:08:54,220 --> 00:08:56,320 book, and that's what we're here to talk about, right? It's 150 00:08:56,320 --> 00:08:59,140 called, how can they hear without a preacher 151 00:08:59,260 --> 00:09:04,200 intersectionality of gender, sexuality and faith and so why 152 00:09:04,200 --> 00:09:09,420 did this book need to be written? How does your academia 153 00:09:09,420 --> 00:09:13,380 and your sexuality and your religion, how does this all play 154 00:09:13,380 --> 00:09:14,580 into our conversation? 155 00:09:15,600 --> 00:09:19,020 Renay Scott: Yeah, you know, I appreciate that question. You 156 00:09:19,020 --> 00:09:23,540 know, growing up my faith in Christ was very important to me. 157 00:09:24,080 --> 00:09:28,280 And, you know, the church is was a place that was important to me 158 00:09:28,340 --> 00:09:33,020 as well. And certainly they teach different teachings and 159 00:09:33,020 --> 00:09:37,280 different methods. And as I, you know, advanced in my own years, 160 00:09:37,280 --> 00:09:41,920 I began to realize that my sexuality and the people I were 161 00:09:41,920 --> 00:09:46,060 was attracted to didn't fit the typical model that the church 162 00:09:46,060 --> 00:09:50,800 was teaching of one man, one woman, you know, have kids. A 163 00:09:50,800 --> 00:09:54,460 lot of that, and it really created a crisis of faith, and 164 00:09:54,460 --> 00:09:59,020 especially tied with messages that anybody who may identify in 165 00:09:59,020 --> 00:10:02,820 the LGBTQ. Plus bucket, you know, is immediately damned to 166 00:10:02,820 --> 00:10:06,180 hell, that that's not what I understood or what I believe, 167 00:10:06,180 --> 00:10:10,500 but sometimes those were the messages that were there. And so 168 00:10:10,500 --> 00:10:14,820 as I went through that process of understanding who I was and 169 00:10:15,060 --> 00:10:17,760 the people I, you know, understanding my attractions to 170 00:10:17,760 --> 00:10:21,380 folks and how it was at odds with the Church's teaching, you 171 00:10:21,380 --> 00:10:25,280 know that crisis of faith led me to, instead of listening to 172 00:10:25,280 --> 00:10:29,300 people, dive into the Bible and find out what it said. And as I 173 00:10:29,300 --> 00:10:32,900 reconciled that faith, what I found through the years was I 174 00:10:32,900 --> 00:10:35,780 was having that same conversation with other people, 175 00:10:36,320 --> 00:10:39,440 and as I told them my story, they kept saying, Renee, you got 176 00:10:39,440 --> 00:10:42,580 to write that down. You got to write that in a book. We need to 177 00:10:42,580 --> 00:10:46,720 you to share that message and how you came to be able to say, 178 00:10:46,780 --> 00:10:50,560 you know, hey, I can be gay and I can also be, you know, a born 179 00:10:50,560 --> 00:10:54,400 again believer and serve Christ. And that's what led to the book. 180 00:10:54,400 --> 00:10:57,760 And you know, a lot of it was for my own reflection, but over 181 00:10:57,760 --> 00:11:01,800 time, I refined it and got it published, in case it can help 182 00:11:01,800 --> 00:11:03,000 anybody else out there. 183 00:11:03,600 --> 00:11:05,280 Robert Plank: Very nice. And that's the whole point of a 184 00:11:05,280 --> 00:11:08,460 book, right? Is that you can experience a slice of a person 185 00:11:08,460 --> 00:11:11,340 that they don't have to go and personally help you out every 186 00:11:11,340 --> 00:11:15,420 time, and that hopefully that an author such as yourself has 187 00:11:15,420 --> 00:11:18,660 blazed the trail somewhat so someone is going through similar 188 00:11:18,660 --> 00:11:21,860 struggles, difficulties, questions, problems, as you they 189 00:11:21,860 --> 00:11:24,740 can pick up this book and say, Oh my gosh. Renee has figured so 190 00:11:24,740 --> 00:11:27,860 much out. And so what have you figured out? Because, like, 191 00:11:27,860 --> 00:11:30,920 we've all heard of about, like, you know, the bigotry, or people 192 00:11:30,920 --> 00:11:33,680 like, misunderstanding or saying, like, oh well, there's 193 00:11:33,680 --> 00:11:36,440 this little like half sentence in their Bible. It doesn't 194 00:11:36,440 --> 00:11:39,380 really mention homosexuality, but people really like, try to 195 00:11:39,380 --> 00:11:43,300 co op that. And there's all this just fear and not understanding 196 00:11:43,300 --> 00:11:47,860 and just pure stupidity, right, and arrogance about this whole 197 00:11:47,860 --> 00:11:51,580 situation. And so set us straight. What did you discover 198 00:11:51,700 --> 00:11:56,320 about what the Bible says about homosexuality and and what that 199 00:11:56,320 --> 00:11:56,920 meant for you? 200 00:11:58,180 --> 00:12:01,080 Renay Scott: Absolutely, and I'm not sure I can speak as much to 201 00:12:01,080 --> 00:12:03,600 what the Bible says about homosexuality, that could be a 202 00:12:03,600 --> 00:12:07,080 whole different podcast. But I think what was really important 203 00:12:07,080 --> 00:12:12,660 in that journey was, you know, before I understood that, that I 204 00:12:12,660 --> 00:12:16,380 identified as a gay individual, I had this meaningful 205 00:12:16,380 --> 00:12:21,680 relationship with God. I would pray, I would read His word and 206 00:12:21,680 --> 00:12:26,300 feel led by that, I'd be prompted by the Holy Spirit, and 207 00:12:26,300 --> 00:12:30,260 then all of a sudden I'm like, Oh my gosh, I think I'm gay, and 208 00:12:30,260 --> 00:12:34,820 what does that mean for that relationship? And so I dove into 209 00:12:34,820 --> 00:12:39,620 the Bible and understood God knew me before I was even formed 210 00:12:39,620 --> 00:12:43,540 in the womb, while it was a surprise for me and trying to 211 00:12:43,540 --> 00:12:47,740 understand the attractions I had, didn't catch God by 212 00:12:47,740 --> 00:12:53,200 surprise at all. He foreknew me, and that relationship didn't 213 00:12:53,260 --> 00:12:57,520 necessarily have to change simply because I learned more 214 00:12:57,520 --> 00:13:01,920 about myself. It's more about that relationship with God than 215 00:13:01,920 --> 00:13:06,420 the real strict legalism that the church I was in was teaching 216 00:13:06,420 --> 00:13:10,140 me. And while it is important to live a good Christian life to 217 00:13:10,140 --> 00:13:14,280 keep that relationship with God alive, in my opinion, it doesn't 218 00:13:14,280 --> 00:13:18,720 mean that who I am innately changes the relationship at all. 219 00:13:18,840 --> 00:13:23,000 God loved me. Every one of us have shortcomings, every one of 220 00:13:23,000 --> 00:13:27,020 us sin, and we can't get to heaven on our own. It had to be 221 00:13:27,080 --> 00:13:32,480 through Jesus, Jesus's death on the cross, and He died for every 222 00:13:32,480 --> 00:13:36,260 one of us. He knew we weren't perfect. And even though I don't 223 00:13:36,260 --> 00:13:41,440 see homosexuality as sin, what I do with who I am as a person is 224 00:13:41,440 --> 00:13:45,580 either good or bad, is sinful or not sinful. So as I came to that 225 00:13:45,580 --> 00:13:49,720 reconciliation, I realized that my faith in God didn't have to 226 00:13:49,720 --> 00:13:53,200 change. In fact, once I was honest with myself, I think the 227 00:13:53,200 --> 00:13:54,580 faith begins to deepen. 228 00:13:55,240 --> 00:13:57,880 Robert Plank: Well, very cool, and it sure it would be a sick 229 00:13:57,880 --> 00:14:01,500 joke, right? If, if God, like knew you and set set you up in 230 00:14:01,500 --> 00:14:04,620 this way, and it's like, yeah, you're you're, you have your 231 00:14:04,620 --> 00:14:07,260 beliefs, you have what you like, and you have your relationship 232 00:14:07,260 --> 00:14:10,260 with God. And some, some people disagree, or there's these silly 233 00:14:10,260 --> 00:14:15,060 rules, but that doesn't have to affect how we live our lives. 234 00:14:15,060 --> 00:14:19,560 And so as far as you kind of coming to terms with this, like, 235 00:14:19,560 --> 00:14:22,460 how long did it take? Or was it easy? Or were the hiccups along 236 00:14:22,460 --> 00:14:22,820 the way? 237 00:14:23,900 --> 00:14:27,740 Renay Scott: Yeah, it was certainly not easy. And part of 238 00:14:27,740 --> 00:14:31,040 it is that as I began to understand who I was, I was 239 00:14:31,040 --> 00:14:36,920 married at the time with a with a very good man, and thankfully, 240 00:14:36,920 --> 00:14:39,560 we're still friends and all of that. But by making some of 241 00:14:39,560 --> 00:14:43,300 those decisions, I knew that there were certain parts of my 242 00:14:43,300 --> 00:14:46,240 life that would change, you know, inevitably, did my 243 00:14:46,240 --> 00:14:51,280 marriage have to end? Maybe not it did, you know, for its own 244 00:14:51,280 --> 00:14:55,480 reason, I'm sure. But it also meant that I probably wouldn't 245 00:14:55,480 --> 00:14:58,660 always feel comfortable in the church, and as I started to come 246 00:14:58,660 --> 00:15:02,160 out and talk to my friends. About what I had discovered, 247 00:15:02,160 --> 00:15:05,700 there are certainly people that didn't agree with me. So while 248 00:15:05,700 --> 00:15:10,920 the journey was a good five, six year journey, you know, it 249 00:15:10,920 --> 00:15:14,940 definitely had some painful elements of it along the way, 250 00:15:15,360 --> 00:15:19,260 but I wouldn't change it for for the world, because it's made me 251 00:15:19,260 --> 00:15:23,780 who I am. It's made me trust God even more because I don't have 252 00:15:23,840 --> 00:15:26,780 all the answers, and it certainly made me a much more 253 00:15:26,780 --> 00:15:30,140 understanding and empathetic individual because of what I 254 00:15:30,140 --> 00:15:33,800 went through. I'm a whole lot less judgmental because of the 255 00:15:33,800 --> 00:15:34,820 journey I went on. 256 00:15:35,600 --> 00:15:38,300 Robert Plank: Very nice and, yeah, it's it's so easy to judge 257 00:15:38,360 --> 00:15:42,040 this or that person for I mean, you take your pick right about 258 00:15:42,040 --> 00:15:45,100 their their character, their appearance, the way that they 259 00:15:45,100 --> 00:15:48,160 act, like you can, you can find flaws in anyone if you if you 260 00:15:48,160 --> 00:15:50,440 look hard enough, but you're like, hey, well, what about me? 261 00:15:50,620 --> 00:15:54,760 And is that really going to improve humanity and the world 262 00:15:54,760 --> 00:15:57,340 around me? And will that brighten someone's day, or am I 263 00:15:57,340 --> 00:16:00,960 just adding to the negativity? And so it's good to have these 264 00:16:00,960 --> 00:16:03,540 realizations, and you've put it in your book, so that way we can 265 00:16:03,540 --> 00:16:07,740 pick it up and take a quick peek about some of these realizations 266 00:16:07,740 --> 00:16:11,160 you've had. And so can you give us an idea? Is there anything in 267 00:16:11,160 --> 00:16:14,280 the book where you said, you know, if you only read this one 268 00:16:14,280 --> 00:16:17,160 page, or this one chapter or this one part's really mind 269 00:16:17,160 --> 00:16:20,400 blowing, like, is there anything that stands out that's worthily 270 00:16:20,400 --> 00:16:21,800 mentioning in this podcast? 271 00:16:22,760 --> 00:16:24,740 Renay Scott: Yeah, you know, I think towards the end of the 272 00:16:24,740 --> 00:16:28,700 book, when it became, when it when it call it, if you will, 273 00:16:28,700 --> 00:16:33,140 the tipping point, if you you read the last couple chapters of 274 00:16:33,140 --> 00:16:36,740 the book, what it does is it finally gets the reader to a 275 00:16:36,740 --> 00:16:40,960 point where I make the decision, this is who I am. This is what I 276 00:16:40,960 --> 00:16:45,040 understand, you know, the Bible to say, and I'm going to live my 277 00:16:45,040 --> 00:16:49,960 authentic life no matter what the consequences are, because I 278 00:16:49,960 --> 00:16:53,260 wrestled with those consequences. You know, do I do 279 00:16:53,260 --> 00:16:57,400 I lie about who I am? Do I stay in a marriage that, you know, 280 00:16:57,400 --> 00:17:00,660 I'm feeling depressed because I'm not getting what I want out 281 00:17:00,660 --> 00:17:04,800 of it, no fault of my, my ex husband's. And I think that 282 00:17:04,800 --> 00:17:08,520 point where you make that decision to live the authentic 283 00:17:08,520 --> 00:17:11,580 life, if you will, to use Shakespeare to thine own self be 284 00:17:11,640 --> 00:17:15,600 true, is really a turning point. And hopefully it's the thing 285 00:17:15,600 --> 00:17:19,680 that challenges all whether, whether it's about sexuality, 286 00:17:19,680 --> 00:17:23,420 whether it might be about anything, to challenge us to 287 00:17:23,420 --> 00:17:27,320 think about being authentic in whatever space that we're in. 288 00:17:27,320 --> 00:17:31,040 Because true, true happiness comes from being who you really 289 00:17:31,040 --> 00:17:32,900 are and living that way. 290 00:17:33,620 --> 00:17:35,960 Robert Plank: I love it, and it's such a tricky concept, 291 00:17:35,960 --> 00:17:40,480 right? It's such a thing to unpack the idea of that inner 292 00:17:40,480 --> 00:17:44,440 self, or that best version of yourself, or being authentic and 293 00:17:44,440 --> 00:17:48,160 saying, Well, you want to be happy, but also be fulfilled. 294 00:17:48,280 --> 00:17:51,220 And you only get one life, and you can't go back in time and do 295 00:17:51,220 --> 00:17:54,520 it over. So you need to make today counts and but, and you 296 00:17:54,520 --> 00:17:57,520 also need to, kind of like sacrifice some now for delayed 297 00:17:57,520 --> 00:18:00,600 gratification later, and you can't always goof off. And it's 298 00:18:00,600 --> 00:18:04,680 so much to take in, right? And what Life sure is, is not clean, 299 00:18:04,680 --> 00:18:09,000 cut and simple, but it is helpful to examine some of these 300 00:18:09,000 --> 00:18:11,460 things that you're mentioning, right? Like, am I being 301 00:18:11,460 --> 00:18:15,300 authentic? Am I being kind and helpful? Do I have a good 302 00:18:15,300 --> 00:18:19,380 relationship with my Creator? Do I think about these things? And 303 00:18:19,380 --> 00:18:23,120 as far as someone maybe, like taking, like, a simple action. 304 00:18:23,120 --> 00:18:27,680 Do you recommend that people, like, ask certain questions or 305 00:18:27,680 --> 00:18:30,860 do certain things? If someone says, you know, Renee is right, 306 00:18:30,920 --> 00:18:35,480 I could, I could always beef up my understanding and my kindness 307 00:18:35,540 --> 00:18:38,720 and do better on my journey. Like, what do you recommend as 308 00:18:38,720 --> 00:18:41,260 far as if someone, if one of these young kids says, you know, 309 00:18:41,380 --> 00:18:46,000 my life's a mess. I want to set myself up for success. Is there 310 00:18:46,000 --> 00:18:48,700 just like a quick homework assignment you could give us 311 00:18:48,700 --> 00:18:48,940 today? 312 00:18:50,140 --> 00:18:53,320 Renay Scott: Yeah, I recommend that every individual read 313 00:18:53,320 --> 00:18:56,980 through the book of Proverbs. There's 31 proverbs. Wanted one 314 00:18:56,980 --> 00:19:01,080 a day, if you will. And there's a lot of wisdom, whether you 315 00:19:01,080 --> 00:19:04,200 choose to believe in God or not, whether you believe that the 316 00:19:04,200 --> 00:19:07,980 Bible's, you know, inspired by God or not, doesn't matter. The 317 00:19:07,980 --> 00:19:11,460 book of Proverbs is a wisdom book, and there's just a lot of 318 00:19:11,460 --> 00:19:15,780 wisdom in there. And if you read one of those chapters a day, you 319 00:19:15,780 --> 00:19:20,460 will find something that's apple. Can apply to your life in 320 00:19:20,460 --> 00:19:25,100 any situation you find yourself in, and so for 10 minutes a day, 321 00:19:25,160 --> 00:19:28,700 I think you can gain a lot of wisdom from an amazing book. 322 00:19:29,359 --> 00:19:31,219 Robert Plank: Very doable. I've heard of people sometimes 323 00:19:31,219 --> 00:19:33,559 saying, I'll read the whole Bible. I'll read all the Old 324 00:19:33,679 --> 00:19:36,499 Testament, New Testament. That sounds exhausting, but what you 325 00:19:36,499 --> 00:19:40,299 say is very doable, right? Just read the book of Proverbs. Just 326 00:19:40,299 --> 00:19:44,979 go through one a day, because we're definitely not born with 327 00:19:44,979 --> 00:19:50,019 the morals and ethics and discipline and and self help and 328 00:19:50,019 --> 00:19:52,659 all those other things we have to go learn it, such as from the 329 00:19:53,019 --> 00:19:55,959 book of Proverbs. And so we've been jumping around all kinds of 330 00:19:55,959 --> 00:19:59,139 interesting topics, haven't we? Renee, we've been talking about 331 00:19:59,199 --> 00:20:02,879 higher education. And sexuality and faith, but you're the star 332 00:20:02,879 --> 00:20:05,759 of the show here, and you're the one with the book. So when this 333 00:20:05,759 --> 00:20:09,239 conversation we're having in our final few minutes, what's the 334 00:20:09,239 --> 00:20:12,719 missing question? What should I be asking you? I just don't know 335 00:20:12,719 --> 00:20:13,319 what to ask you. 336 00:20:14,880 --> 00:20:18,480 Renay Scott: Yeah, I think there's a there's the real 337 00:20:18,480 --> 00:20:21,980 question comes down to if someone wants to make that 338 00:20:21,980 --> 00:20:26,420 change, and they don't really know one way or the other 339 00:20:26,540 --> 00:20:30,500 whether God exists, doesn't exist, whether it's God Yahweh 340 00:20:30,680 --> 00:20:35,060 or another god that may be talking talking about, what's 341 00:20:35,060 --> 00:20:38,540 the first step on that journey? And I think the first step on 342 00:20:38,540 --> 00:20:41,620 that journey is just taking a little bit of time and 343 00:20:41,620 --> 00:20:46,480 reflecting on your life and saying, is this the best my life 344 00:20:46,480 --> 00:20:51,460 can be? And if not, what is one small step I can take every day 345 00:20:51,700 --> 00:20:56,020 to begin making choices and building a life that is full, 346 00:20:56,080 --> 00:21:00,660 meaningful and makes me happy. Because truly, I think our God 347 00:21:00,660 --> 00:21:03,600 wants us just to be happy, yes, but 348 00:21:03,600 --> 00:21:06,060 Robert Plank: you also hear that we need to do it ourselves, 349 00:21:06,060 --> 00:21:09,360 right? It won't just be handed to us, because what's the fun in 350 00:21:09,360 --> 00:21:12,540 that? Right? What's the adventure if it's not earned by 351 00:21:12,540 --> 00:21:17,280 us? So that's very helpful and valuable to ask yourself these 352 00:21:17,280 --> 00:21:21,440 questions, and can I do better? What can I do, and especially 353 00:21:21,500 --> 00:21:25,220 what's one small step? Just like Neil Armstrong said, right, I 354 00:21:25,220 --> 00:21:28,160 don't have to set myself up for failure and commit to all this 355 00:21:28,160 --> 00:21:31,160 stuff. Just say, hey, what's one little thing I can do? Can I be 356 00:21:31,160 --> 00:21:35,840 kind to my neighbor? Can I make that phone call? Can I look into 357 00:21:36,080 --> 00:21:39,140 those college classes? Can I take that walk around the block? 358 00:21:39,140 --> 00:21:42,640 Can I look into the other career, we just figure out 359 00:21:42,700 --> 00:21:46,300 what's that little, small step in order to get on this better 360 00:21:46,300 --> 00:21:50,680 path. And so we've been speaking with Miss Renee M Scott, who is 361 00:21:50,680 --> 00:21:54,520 the author of How can they hear without a preacher 362 00:21:54,640 --> 00:22:00,180 intersectionality of gender, sexuality and faith. And if you 363 00:22:00,180 --> 00:22:05,040 are someone who is a believer of Jesus Christ, or active in your 364 00:22:05,040 --> 00:22:10,920 church, or are dealing with the stress of sexuality worry, or 365 00:22:10,920 --> 00:22:14,040 you just face any sort of concerns you want to check out 366 00:22:14,160 --> 00:22:17,820 this autobiography about Renee Scott, which is about how she 367 00:22:17,820 --> 00:22:22,280 came to believe in Jesus Christ, and how that faith impacted her 368 00:22:22,280 --> 00:22:26,120 journey. It's all about her journey toward understanding her 369 00:22:26,120 --> 00:22:30,560 sexuality and navigating the complexity of a society in 370 00:22:30,560 --> 00:22:35,000 turmoil over homosexuality and a religion hostile to 371 00:22:35,000 --> 00:22:38,480 homosexuality. And there's a lot to reconcile there, right? And 372 00:22:38,540 --> 00:22:41,980 you hope that we're in this enlightened time we'll just have 373 00:22:41,980 --> 00:22:45,820 more understanding things will get better, and through figuring 374 00:22:45,820 --> 00:22:49,960 out the beliefs and everything else involved, she's learned the 375 00:22:49,960 --> 00:22:53,800 truth through this journey, and the truth has set her free. So 376 00:22:53,800 --> 00:22:56,800 if you want to live a better life, if you say, I need to 377 00:22:56,800 --> 00:22:59,200 think some of these things through, check out this book. 378 00:22:59,260 --> 00:23:01,860 It's called, how can they hear without a preacher 379 00:23:01,920 --> 00:23:06,240 intersectionality of gender, sexuality and faith? By Miss 380 00:23:06,240 --> 00:23:12,360 Renee M Scott, that's r, e, n, a, y, M, S, C, o, t, t, and 381 00:23:12,360 --> 00:23:15,600 before I let you go, Renee Scott, it's time for the scary 382 00:23:15,600 --> 00:23:18,780 part of the podcast where I try to stump you. I try to put you 383 00:23:18,780 --> 00:23:22,700 on the spot by asking about a fun quote or lesson that has 384 00:23:22,700 --> 00:23:25,400 served you. So what comes to mind as far as a fun quote or 385 00:23:25,400 --> 00:23:25,820 lesson? 386 00:23:26,900 --> 00:23:29,720 Renay Scott: Sure, so the quote that that has become a life 387 00:23:29,720 --> 00:23:34,160 model since living through the book is 90% of what we worry 388 00:23:34,160 --> 00:23:38,360 about never happens. The other 10% is never as bad as we 389 00:23:38,360 --> 00:23:38,960 imagine. 390 00:23:39,980 --> 00:23:43,060 Robert Plank: Very helpful. Hard to keep that in mind in the 391 00:23:43,060 --> 00:23:46,360 moment, but you're still true, right? 90% doesn't even happen. 392 00:23:46,420 --> 00:23:52,000 So take it easy and get to live in your life. And that begins by 393 00:23:52,060 --> 00:23:55,540 checking out this book, how they can hear without a preacher, by 394 00:23:55,540 --> 00:23:59,140 Renee Scott. Get it on Amazon or where books are sold. And thank 395 00:23:59,140 --> 00:24:01,980 you very much, Renee, for showing up, stopping by, helping 396 00:24:01,980 --> 00:24:04,440 us out. I appreciate what you gave us. So thanks for being 397 00:24:04,440 --> 00:24:04,620 here. 398 00:24:05,099 --> 00:24:07,739 Renay Scott: You bet. Thanks Robert for having me, and thank 399 00:24:07,739 --> 00:24:08,759 you to your audience. You.