1060: Lessons on Entrepreneurship and Pursuing Dreams with Sales Professional Kelly Meyer

Robert Plank 0:04 Welcome back to the podcast. Kelly Meyer is here who is a very unique individual who has been through so many things from a seven figure exit from the fitness industry. Kelly and his wife opened a craft brewery in 2012. And he spent nearly 10 years searching and not finding profitability before finally selling for a massive loss and moving on. So what is all this leading to? Well, I'm glad you asked. Because now Kelly has taken what he learned into a book and a podcast. And it's called how not to start a damn brewery. So we're gonna find out all about Kelly's life lessons and some of those commonalities, because sometimes you get in situation A, B, and C. And there's those overlapping factors, plus what he's done to build a podcast audience to over 100,000 downloads and so much more. So Kelly, super excited and pumped to talk to you.

Kelly Meyer 0:56 Thanks for having me. It's not every day, I get to have an intro like that. So I appreciate it.

Robert Plank 1:00 Yeah, it pumps up the ego and just makes you feel good. And I mean, who wouldn't want that? Right? It's like having a whole room applauding you. And it's and bowing and worshiping you. So that's what I'm here for you. So we introduced you a little bit, but in your own words, what do you all about? What makes you special? What has you passionate lately?

Kelly Meyer 1:20 Oh, passionate lately is like right now my main thing is just sort of changing the burning world. And this kind of sounds kind of a bit egregious, and maybe over the top, but that's what it boils down to is that the brewing industry needs to change. And I'm excited to be that guy. So I'm a bit of a pariah. But at the same time, I have a lot of fun doing it. And I've have all the friends I need. So now I'm just trying to get out there and make a difference, though. Okay,

Robert Plank 1:43 well, let's get into what you're doing to change the world. Because when you think about what a brewery is, I mean, you think that it's like a collection of really cool people, right? It just seems more hip, like a restaurant already is kind of cool. And then if there's like a bar or lounge or a grill, you're like, Well, I'm not sure about that. But a brewery is almost guaranteed to have the cool factor. But you also imagine just from a lay person's point of view that it's probably it sounds really stressful. It sounds really expensive. It sounds maybe even harder than a lot of other retail establishments. And that's just from first impression. So tell me, am I off base on base? What is this stressful, terrible experience of having a brewery?

Kelly Meyer 2:28 Yeah, so let's let's bring the mood down a little bit right now. I'll try to make it exciting and fun. But yeah, that the at the end of the day, really what happens is the brewing industry, it is fun. It is cool from the consumers perspective, right? So if you're out there trying to say 15 years ago that I have this much access to unique and interesting beer, and could I try new stuff to excite my taste buds, that world is better for the consumer. But at the same time, it's worse for the brewery operator. So the profitability, brushstroke numbers, somewhere around 70% of the breweries in the United States operate a business model that is not currently profitable. And that with the current climate, there's no way to change that. margins were always slim. But now there's so much competition, that costs have gone up prices have not, there's just nobody making money, except for a few guys at the top and only because they're over leveraged. Right.

Robert Plank 3:19 Okay, so then that leads to the ultimate entrepreneurial question, why would someone do this? Why would someone be so crazy to lose money to get leverage to have a loan? Why not just get a job as a Walmart greeter or an accountant at IBM or something?

Kelly Meyer 3:37 Yeah, and I've said many times that when I sold my first company, there were a lot of things I could have done, that would have made me more money. For example, opening up a strip center, like I could have just done that. And or the one that blows our mind to this day is you make way more money offering storage units outside of like a bunch of neighborhoods with HOAs. But it's boring, like so the thing is, you can make money a bunch of boring ways in the brewing industry is fun, there is no way I'm going to try to sit here and tell you I didn't have a blast some of these festivals and that they weren't cool nights were released my Oktoberfest and had a few too many, and it was a blast for my buddies. But the main reason they get in the beer industry is just because that's the thing you want to do, and you've got the cash to do it. There's not going to be you're just not gonna make money. So there's a lot of other ways to make better money. Like we had talked about, after I left a brewery, I sold it for a massive loss that next year, 12 months to the day, I made more than I made the entire time on the step salary anyways in the brewing industry in the next career. So it wasn't as cool but I get the opportunity to drink beer for fun then so I can afford it.

Robert Plank 4:45 Okay, and that's an interesting insight right off the bat that the amount of money you make, and the cool adventure pneus factor. These are two different aspects and it starts to hurt your brain a little bit when you think about money in these sorts of terms like I saw Graph a few years ago that said, like, Okay, if you only go to high school, you make about a half a million dollars in your lifetime. If you're going to college or you're a doctor, you make about $2 million. And when you start to think of that, and like life terms, you think like, Okay, if you sold a company, and you made $10 million, you kind of like, really don't need any more money. Like, that's enough for maybe not like your grandchildren, but like, you could just the rest of your life $10 million would do you and then even if you made like 100 grands, you know, there's always the kind of the pessimistic Oh, and inflation value, money thing, but 100 grand, you could probably survive on that. And so there's a difference between making money and as much as you can, or making money, the boring way versus being like, okay, I can cover my nut, and then the other money, that's just my adventure that just, you know, all these cool things that I'm doing. And so you, you kind of have these different stages of your life, right? You exited the fitness industry, he did the brewery, and then that now that led to the book in the podcast, so like, what do you feel like talking about? Like, where's the story here? Is there is there the fun story in the fitness in the brewery or in the book and podcast?

Kelly Meyer 6:13 Oh, don't know, I think in a way, it's the whole thing. And I, there's gonna come a point where I write a second book. And the second book is going to be all about what I've learned in 100 podcast episodes, where I interviewed guys who went out of business guys and girls. And so that's going to be an interesting story, because I don't think it's been told in business yet. And, you know, I give the example like Jim Collins has some really killer books, and just really nerded out on the details of business in America, what works, what doesn't, you know, built to last good to create. These are ideas and concepts all built on, primarily success, even the failures were really sort of like success driven in the sense that they had their glory years. And so I'm really interested in that and excited to write that book, and really dig into what we learned from failure without having to call it a success. But I don't think it's been done. But as far as my career, I think the whole thing is interesting in the sense that you're looking back, there were some very dark days, I'm not going to say that. But with the fitness thing, I did that for almost 10 years, was it eight or nine years, sold it for a bunch of money, was kind of an arrogant jerk, and went into the brewing industry thinking I knew everything about business, and I was just going to come in and mop up. And that didn't happen. And so did I got a little bit of kind of an ego check in a way, but also found some Zen done a better spot in my life. And then was very down when I left, and had been very successful as a land sales consultant, and you're doing the podcasts. Again, there's all over the all over the world. Now I've interviewed people from Australia, UK, Canada, US. So it just shows like you can fail and not be out of the game, too. I think that's a cool picture, that there were like I said, very dark times. But now the last three years have been fantastic. And maybe in the three best years of my career.

Robert Plank 8:04 A wonderful and that's a cool mindset there. There's, there's a scarcity mindset of like, well, I have to count my pennies and hold all my money. And then the abundance mindset, which is, well, if I make a big mistake, and the money's gone, you can always rebuild it. And the money kind of flows in and out anyway, right? You have to pay all your bills, you have to have this steady income and hearing about your process now. And then also, when we spoke on the phone a few weeks ago, it's kind of like thinking grow rich, it's right, the whole, like, basically, when there's when there's really good books, right? Like Jim Collins, for example. They do all this research and look at hundreds of case studies have hundreds of conversations, and then kind of let it all wash over and figure out what's like the topographic map right? And figure out well, what are all the common factors? Where does everyone start? Right? Where does everyone screw up? Just when you look at hundreds of people? What do they all do? What do they not do? That's always it's interesting to think about? And so what have you discovered along those lines, like in your own journey, and and having these conversations like what are the success factors that are maybe not talked about a lot?

Kelly Meyer 9:16 I will so I always tell people, I'm an expert on failure, not so much success. So if you really want to ask for what I what I know best, it's what not to do. As far as like in the beer industry overall. And I think it still to this day blows my mind in all the industries fitness, beer, even real estate, the idea of people understanding return on investment, as the fundamental driver of the entire concept of business. It just it's not there and it'll, it'll blow your mind. I mean, businesses you walk into, and they either don't understand the incoming leads, and then how to process those and the value of the phone ringing or the people walk into the door. But more importantly, I'm not a big fan of business plans, but I'm a big fan of business models. And so in that sense, like, what is your cost structure versus your potential revenue and data across the board, I would say that it's a minute, less than 1% of the operators that I've talked to actually fundamentally understand that from a perspective based situation, they can look at a p&l, they can tell you what their EBIT does some and either less, or very small amount to even do that, but, but even to understand beyond that, what that means and how to make changes incremental in your business. I think if you can't do that, you shouldn't be in business period.

Robert Plank 10:34 And that's huge EBIT, Steve to think about just like, do you know your numbers? And more importantly, do you know, your actionable numbers? Because like, I think I saw a tick tock or like a week ago, where it was like some real estate conference, and they were talking to people, and they were like, Hey, how many units do you have? And it was like, down to the, the exact number like 417. And what's your monthly income? I knew that. And they were like, how much do you make per tenant? They knew that and like, What's your goal for this year? They knew that and it was just like, and they answered so quickly. It was like, this wasn't the first time they had thought about it, or had answered it. They knew their numbers. So well. And then again, going back to my kind of bystander mindset is you hear about this with people and again, a lot in like restaurant industry or business people they know, like, how much money am I making in my business per hour, and every person that walks through the door, and when something on the menu is priced $7.75, there's like a specific reason for that. And so I think that's really cool, just knowing what these numbers are, but also having the focus to knowing like what, what your important ones are, and then those KPIs to move the needle. And so how do we tap into that, like you say, only 1% of operators are doing this? So is the solution to like, get someone on staff to dial the sin or to like, completely change the way you think, like, how do we go from from bad to great, right? How do we go from not knowing these numbers and not doing it well to like what you described a moment ago?

Kelly Meyer 12:05 Yeah, and a big part of it is just having the education out there. And we have a trade organization in the beer industry called the Brewers Association. And they just really don't touch those things. And I'm not going to speculate as to why or tell you what the reason is, but I can tell you that that should it's going to start there, because they're doing educational things in there focused on the oxygen pickup in the canning line on a 10 foot run versus a four foot long run, which, while important, is more of a master brewers technical side. And I think the Brewers Association has a responsibility to really push home, how we can make money as an industry since they make money off of breweries. And so I think that's important. There are some different kind of publications that you calm. So newspapers, magazines, within the industry that do some education, and they also aren't focusing on those kinds of things. So outside of that, I think it's going to be tough to move that needle. There is a podcast that talks a lot about it called how not to start at Hanford, every one of us do that. But yeah, I think it starts there.

Robert Plank 13:07 Okay, so it seems like we need to embrace this idea of learning, and especially constant learning and networking, and just talking to other people, especially the people that are doing well. And so we get that from networking, we also get that from listening to a podcast like yours to get that constant dose. And then also, I guess, it comes down to somehow making the accounting work, because you hear about, like, you know, Entrepreneurial Operating System, or like Profit First, there's all these guys that they are like, because there's like, there's the technical, as you said, right? There's like the, the step by step of your process of like, well, the oxygen content and whatever. But then there's like getting real and deep and strategic with the numbers. And so I think that that's, that's, that's something interesting to think about, just like what makes the failure versus what makes the success. And so, and also, you hear about how these people that are, like really good accountants are really good business coaches, you can almost drop them into any kind of business and there for sure, it'd be like a learning curve. But you could drop these wizards into like, a brewery. And they would then figure out some of these things you're talking about, right? Like, are you losing money? are you gaining money? What can we change? And so you've been in all these different sorts of industries? And what would you say is easier? Is it easier to market, a gym, a podcast, or Texas lamps?

Kelly Meyer 14:31 Well, I will say that I think timing is part of that. And so I don't own a gym today and post COVID My understanding is, there's a lot of struggles in that industry. But I'll give you just from the perspective of what I did when I did it. That was by far the most profitable thing that I've done. And the reason is that you have the opportunity to pre sell and get customers and revenue previous to even opening. And so if you've negotiated, which most people do some sort of free ramp structure or even and delayed rent. And in the beginning, there were a lot of those businesses that I opened that were never are always profitable, we never lost money, because we were able to generate business early on. And then it was membership based. And so you had a fixed cost. If I had 100 members versus 1000. Members, it costs essentially the same little bit more on payroll. So it could scale. And that's important that if you can scale, the bureau, you can't do that. If you scale revenue, you've got to scale costs. And that, that it creates its own challenges that cost me $5,000 last month in a theater, but I need to make double this month, and I'll just have the other $5,000 laying around, I've got to go find that somewhere, to be able to do it. You didn't have to deal with fitness, spend all your money up front, leverage it, you could borrow against everything. And then you can just sell and so if you could sell, you could make a bunch of money. And so we did well, during that land is great, but you know, real estate's kind of cyclical, so I would, I would assume that there'll be some up and down years, I haven't had one yet, but I'm sure that I will. So

Robert Plank 15:59 interesting. So you're, you're saying that whatever game you play, there's different rules, right. And there's difference difficulties and different margins, and especially different bottlenecks. And that kind of guides what you do, right? Like you, you might not want to scale a brewery, but you might want to scale the gym. And so that's interesting to think about that just based on knowing what the space is, and knowing what the plusses and minuses are, should you even get into it? Should you stay in it? And then what should you do? What's like the smart decision of what to do moving forward? Right? Do you grow it? Do you keep it as is? Or do you exit it? And so in all of your travels, right, with the businesses with the podcast, with all the adventures, has anything surprise you lately that you feel like sharing?

Kelly Meyer 16:48 Surprise me? See, while surprised by an amazing period of the day, but that's a that's a whole different story that so many of the breweries that I visited, that group in his last period, just didn't have fantastic beer. And it was a lot of mediocre beer that comes through. And I've hit a brewery in Texas the other day, and everything was fantastic, made right and just dialed in. And that just put a smile on my face in a way that I forgot how to enjoy beer. Which sounds weird being a guy who was in the industry for 10 years, but I kind of lost the love of it at the end. So that was a great surprise. I really enjoyed that. But yeah. And

Robert Plank 17:28 so would you say, Okay, so when you go to like, one of these breweries like you did recently, and you go in and like, like all the beers great, and everything's great. Like, how do they accomplish that is that just a matter of attention to detail, and like making sure all the little finer touches are in there, like what separates just a mediocre brewery from a great one.

Kelly Meyer 17:49 It'll be processes primarily, but the beer that comes out is going to be primarily based upon having good staff. So you got to have an educated brewmaster it's probably restaurant entry is not that different. But as a rule rapers aren't the ones that have great recipes, they're the ones that know how to fix it when something goes wrong, whether on brew day, or after. And so it does take an experienced guide. So say, hey, our gravity's off, our pH is off, what do we do to make that adjustment now before becomes a problem, so they have to be able to find that problem early and then fix that problem before it's a problem. And so, it would have been it was that all the way through so fermentation was done correctly, recipe was done correctly, it was executed correctly and in written correctly, and then having the great equipment because unfortunately, a lot of Brits are using smaller and kind of like non non commercial size, non commercial style equipment. So what comes out, they wouldn't say a great bird can make great beer on any equipment, but at the same time, it does matter. So having the right equipment, the right processes, the right ability to drop things out, add things in where they needed to be. And so in this case, it was just execution across the board with an attention to detail on the styles so they were made correctly, they figured palette the way they wanted to and there was a balance of flavors that unfortunately just don't get a lot you'll get a beard as well as tastes good. But there's a ton of flavor or or there's not so the primarily the best beers the best selling beers in America don't have edges and don't have character but craft beer is different. And so when you put that edges of character in there, it does take a skilled hand and an almost an artisan to do it with balance.

Robert Plank 19:31 Interesting well cool and you're giving me flashbacks to like the Marcus Lemonis the profit guy right there's like the process people and a product and so like the product is the beer is the equipment. And then you also need the process to have the right step by step to use it properly and to do it consistently. But then there's also the people because the people need to be able to follow the steps and then also to improvise like you said if like the pH is wrong or something Then like that, and then with the customer support and being educated. So that's interesting just to think about those factors are what that triangle ends up being. And you can't have you can't have two and neglect the other, you have to really have your stuff dialed in, especially in like a restaurant kind of space and people kind of space. So it seems really stressful. You have to definitely know your stuff be at the top of your game. And so people are listening this podcast here for a lot of different reasons, right? Maybe they're brewery owners or brewery enthusiasts, or they want to know about Mr. Kelly Meyer here and just about your website in your podcast, and this could be a path back to them. So if someone says, All right, I'm really interested about your business lessons, and possibly your book and your podcast. So what are some next steps here? What's the call to action? How does someone go and find out more about you?

Kelly Meyer 20:55 So how not to start at Danbury is the full name, if you type Danbury, and I've done a good job of making sure I own that, so you didn't really all you can remember is damn burry, you got me. So go look, their books on Amazon podcast should be just about everywhere you can think of. And that's that's a great place to start.

Robert Plank 21:13 Fantastic. And it sounds like you have a lot of fun with your podcasts and deliver a lot of lessons and meet a lot of interesting people. Because and I just Yeah, it seems like as you said, your whole mindset is, well, let's focus on the failure because there's way more things to not to there's way more content, fun stories there. And there's only a few ways to succeed. But a lot of what you learned, like even when you were describing the whole craft beer thing, right? Like, well, if you don't have the rounding out, and if there's too many flavors, it's like, if there's something that I'm doing wrong, I can immediately point to that and say, okay, stop doing that. And then it's whack a mole, I end up doing something else wrong. But if I keep on winning the game of Whack a Mole, eventually I can get things dialed in and have the money right and have the hire the right people and do the right things and do the right marketing. And there's a million things to be done. And that's why there's just not one singular book. That's why there's the ongoing podcast, but then to get the consolidation, get the lessons, that's where the how not to start a damn brewery is so you said search damn brewery search how not started an brewery and then jump in and check out the podcast because someone who's on this show is listening to a podcast or a podcast tuner enter. So they need to then tune into your podcast. And as we've said, even if you're not that much of a brewery person, there's all sorts of fun business lessons. And it's like when you say you went to school, and you had to learn math, and that's not fun. But if they taught us math in like a video game context or taught you math in context of like your favorite movie. Now that's fun. So maybe someone who is interested in some of this business stuff. By hearing about these breweries stories, then they can learn these otherwise boring marketing lessons and kind of sneak the medicine in. So it's a lot of fun to think about. So how not to start a damn brewery book and podcast from Kellie Meyer. And as we're wrapping up our conversation here, Kelly, do you have any just final lessons or quotes for us are any anything that we need to sneak in at the end that you think we forgot?

Kelly Meyer 23:24 No, I don't think we've forgotten anything. I would say that the overarching message that I always wanted to tell people is follow your dreams. Do whatever the hell you want. Just do with your eyes open and let it mitigate your risk. But other than that grip and rip it and have a life. Have some fun.

Robert Plank 23:39 All right, amen to that great advice. I love that many lists, just live your life and go on that adventure. And for you up there as a podcast listener. The next step in your adventure is to check out Kelly Meyers how not to start a damn brewery podcast and book check it out now. You'll be glad you did. Kelly, wonderful speaking with you. You too man. Appreciate it. Thank you for tuning in to the marketer of the day podcast. marketer of the day is managed by d f y and podcast. Clean your 12 podcast boosters at Def why a podcast.com/free