1086: Elevate Client-Agency Partnerships, Benchmark Brands and Lessons in Purpose-Driven Marketing from Veteran CEO of Laughlin Constable Anthony Romano

Robert Plank 0:04 Hey, welcome back to the podcast. Anthony Romano is here Anthony is the CEO of the Midwest advertising agency Laflin Constable, and they partner with clients like Northwestern medicine, true value Masterlock, Vienna beef, ASPCA, and Anthony has all this experience with Porsche, Harley Davidson, Samsung, Pepsi, Anheuser Busch, and so much more. And so Anthony has been around for all these years, all these decades seen all these amazing things. And he has some new ideas about these things such as a personal experience brand PSB. He has ideas about AI and Marketing. And today in the future, the Seven Commandments for marketers to build and leverage great client agency relationships, and so much more. So Anthony, glad to be speaking with you.

Anthony Romano 0:50 Thanks for having me.

Robert Plank 0:52 So we introduce you a little bit hyped you up? And in your own words, what's your current bullish focus and passion? What gets you excited these days?

Anthony Romano 1:01 Yeah, so um, as you mentioned, I'm CEO, Loveland, constable. We are an independent agency. In the Midwest, I'm in Chicago. And yeah, I mean, I guess what gets me excited is talking to folks like you about the things that we love as often constable like building brands, and, you know, being really passionate and kind of obsessed a little bit about what it takes to build brands. And yeah, no, as far as on a personal level, you know, I'm dad of three girls and loving life in Chicago. Now living here for my first year. So

Robert Plank 1:42 exciting. And being obsessed is good, right? Especially if you want some results, when you when someone lands on your site, or they see you with a sort of posting obsessively, or marketing or running ads, you want to see that end result be someone who has their act together and has their company figured out. And so this whole idea of a personal brand, I feel like it's been around for like such a long time and look with all the influencers and everything else. But like, specifically, but it's kind of PSB term that I've heard thrown around, especially in his last few months. So it feels like it's finally, this idea of growing up and saying like, Okay, this thing that we've been seeing we've been doing, and finally, we're kind of putting the science into it. So this idea of a personal brand that seems to get thrown around, like what is it to you? And what should we know about it?

Anthony Romano 2:31 Yeah, no, it's great, great question. And you're right, it is. It's not an uncommon phrase. But you know, look, I mean, as brand building agencies, we all have to be a little bit obsessed with understanding kind of the why. And when consumers really love brands, and what drives that love, and, frankly, how that love constantly changes by generation. But our belief that our agency is that that the most relevant most modern was successful brands in the world are exactly as you said, we call them PSPs personal experience brands. You know, think about it, like think about the brands you love, right? They really do manage to connect with you kind of on a on a deep personal level, right? So whether it's some emotional video that you just saw that you don't want to just watch, but you want to share it with five friends, or it's some like perfectly timed product message that's just so ridiculously intuitive that it makes you smile, or some app that anticipates your needs, like these are all ways that brands make it personal. There's so many ways, right? So our entire mission at Laughlin centers around this, these words make it personal. So the interesting thing is we don't see it as just this, like soft positioning, like we see it as an imperative. Kind of like an imperative to a brand survival in some ways. You know, in fact, when we start conversations with brands, we say, if you're not making it personal, you're making yourself obsolete. And I think that sort of shakes them into wanting to hear more, talk more. But just getting back to your initial question about kind of what how do we define a PSP? You know, when you think about the brands that the ones that succeed, versus the ones that fail in the same categories, and the ones that are magically able to kind of blur the lines between themselves and consumers. We have seen in those cases time and time again that the data points to what we've boiled down to be five very specific tenants and then we call that the PSP factor. So in other words, brands that that do these five things really, really well have high PSB factor in the hearts and minds of consumers. So the first one really is this idea of being purposeful and inspirational and So, brands that relate to my values by expressing kind of demonstrating in the real world, why they exist and being really clear about what they believe, but also what just makes them truly special to me. So that's, that's the first. The second is this idea of being human centered. We've heard that terminology before, but the breaking it down a brand that clearly keeps my needs in mind when they're not just developing advertising, but when they're building new products when they're delivering new services. So that's second to third is this concept of contextually useful. So you know, the brand they show up in my daily life, and meet my needs in all the right ways, in all the right places, and really kind of at the right moments in time in my life. So the fourth is this idea of culturally connected so the brand demonstrates that it's, it's got its finger on the pulse of the cultural topics and themes that matter to me most on a personal level. And then last, the fifth area that we look at is this idea of being dynamic. So that can mean a lot of different things. But the brand just continues to kind of evolve and innovate and adapt. world's changing all the time. You mentioned AI earlier, obviously. So it's it's out of they remain relevant to me. And just constantly be experimental in that process. So those are the five big areas that we use as like kind of our I don't know what you I guess you could call it measuring stick of it and benchmark for what makes really, really successful, successful brands.

Robert Plank 6:46 Wonderful. And so if someone says, Okay, you listed these five sort of pillars, and I feel really behind if you're really overwhelmed. How do I even begin to work on this? Is it safe to say that this is something that requires maybe like, a lot of thought over time, just to really like, think through again, and again, on like, Okay, well, am I hitting these these pillars? Am I showing up at the right time? Do I have the context? So like, I mean, is it is this like a kind of a long process to figure out some of these things?

Anthony Romano 7:17 Well, no, not necessarily. I mean, there, as I've rambled off those five things, you probably had a bunch of brands just sort of taking form in your mind a little bit, the ones that really, really matter to you, and the ones that you your turn to, and you're loyal to all the time. And so the way that we talk with our clients about and I guess this is a good, good moment to sort of introduce the concept of this PSP factor, proprietary study that we've done as a kind of as a springboard into the strategic conversations we have about brands we have with brands, I should say. But we'd like to pontificate a lot about theories and beliefs. But we decided to go ahead and quantify it by creating this proprietary study called PSP factor, and which basically, we started by benchmarking the 30, what we were calling kind of most iconic brands in the world according to some a lot of sources, like Forbes and fortune and best company and s&p 500. And so we went out and talked to 1000s of consumers just to kind of get a sense for how they would score various brands, along these five tenants, and really interesting things came came out of that. And we were able to really see some that kind of leaned toward the upper upper spectrum, like the apples of the world, the Googles, the Amazons, the Nikes, the Starbucks, and then some that kind of swung toward the lower end of the spectrum. Again, to begin with, these are all very elite brands. But they still, there's still a fair amount of separation when you're measuring them against these tenants in the hearts and minds of consumers. So brands like McDonald's or Ace Hardware or Bank of America, like these fell at the lower end of the spectrum. And so some really interesting things came out of that. But we use that benchmark now to go out and talk to brands. Because they can relate to those brands, they understand them. And we help them run through the model and run through the tool and understand where they sit and then we break down like where are you on being human centered? Where are you on being culturally connected? are you leveraging social channels properly to get culturally connected? From a human centered standpoint, are in your digital environments? Are you engaging consumers in the way that you should? Are you making their lives as simple as you can? You know, when you're putting video content out in the world, is it both deeply emotional and rationally practical? So these are just some of the things that we go through in the early strategy stages with our clients to help them build brands. And

Robert Plank 9:53 I can see how helpful that would be because you're kind of hitting the problem from different angles, right? There's kind of the principles in the theory, which is important just to understand where you're trying to get at. And then you say, well, now here is the implementation in all these kinds of 30 different brands that you've heard of, and then seeing how that gets people excited and interested and engaged. And then you kind of take those two things and say, Okay, now looking at where you're at now, how far along? Are you with each of these factors? And where's kind of the strengths and weaknesses? And what are you doing? Right? And so like, what's the usual starting point? Like, when you go to one of these companies, one of these brands, and you kind of take this inventory? And see like, okay, like, are they putting up the content that you said, is, like, emotionally powerful, but also, like, rationally practical? Like, where are they usually at? Are they are most companies usually, like really strong in any of these five factors are weak? Or just like, what's the typical before picture?

Anthony Romano 10:53 Yeah, it's interesting. I mean, these these 30, that we started with just, again, purely from a benchmarking standpoint, we were, they're all amongst the better brands, you would, you would imagine, right? But even they have clear strengths and weaknesses. You know, Apple was one of the few Apple, Google and Amazon were one of the few that were strong on most of those tenants. Nike was one that was strong on all on most Starbucks was strong, and most the brands that we approach are not always the elite 30 brands, right, and in the hearts and minds of consumers, and they're not always in the deepest passion categories, either there. And so when we kind of see where they are, then yeah, we'll break it down as I was kind of doing before, and we'll say Okay, your, your, your biggest gaps exist with you being inspirational. Okay, so what do we need to do to really find your purpose and what you stand for what you believe, and what makes you special? And we embark on a brand strategy engagement through a series of conversations with unlike any professional services consultancy would do and, and then we start laying out kind of a roadmap for what are the kinds of marketing programs and consumer and consumer communications do we need to put out in the world that will help you get up the spectrum? And it definitely takes time, you know, none of these brands achieved high scores in the PSP. Overnight, and and our clients wouldn't see that kind of success overnight, either. It's a journey, you know, but we can at least help them get on the right roadmap. Yeah,

Robert Plank 12:38 and it's helpful to hear about your approach, because this just seems like a huge problem to solve. And you can look at, okay, well, I want to be like an Apple or Google and watch this big ol list of things that they've done. And it can be overwhelming, especially to get from point A to point B, and will all the context switching provided, but it's like, it's helpful to kind of hear about the art and the science aspects of it, right, you see, there's these criteria, and you should sort of score things so that way, you know, what, what the low hanging fruit is, or what the focus should be. And then when it comes time to like, jump in there, then that's where you apply, like the art side and the creativity. And then But then you switch back to the kind of the microtasks and say, Okay, now we need to like script videos, or put out content like this. So it's helpful to kind of hear about your approach. Well, there's kind of the science and then you switch to the art and the science again, it's kind of a cool, like thinking about your thought process there. And so you've helped all these brands, you've seen all these cool things, has anything surprised you in your journey? Or is there like a cool story that you can share with us? It really kind of just shows this transformation you provide?

Anthony Romano 13:50 Yeah, I mean, I think, you know, it's, um, it's a great question. I think the the thing I've, I've seen is that not all of these things are clear, are created equal, right? If if you don't, in some way really relate to a brand, and its beliefs and why it exists. And this is why purpose driven brands have become such a big hot topic, I'm sure you've probably covered it on your podcast many times. But I feel like that is like the fundamental thing that we're obviously learning is that if on a purpose level on an inspirational level, if the brand doesn't, in some way, connect, all the other elements don't really even start to matter, frankly. And and that's the same thing with cultural connection. So you know, if you think about, like a Starbucks, for example, you know, amazing brand. As far as what it used to stand for, it was this idea of establishing itself as this premium coffee maker, right. But what we've seen over time, certainly what I've seen and over and over my obsession with brands is that now they've shifted to this idea of being a nurturer of human connection that's like their, that's their new position. And so going from product focus to people focused for that brand has started to inform everything they do from the app, they build to the environments they create, to these new, massive flagship retail centers that they've built, to help their brand, you know, to all the work they do in the community to support their local communities. You know, this is a, this is a very different brand than it used to be say, you know, even seven, eight years ago, so talk about a journey, that, again, an elite brand has been on just continuing to improve and improve and improve. But at the heart of it is this idea of shifting from coffee maker to human connection. And I think that's a great example of, of why purpose and why being inspirational, so important.

Robert Plank 16:08 And this whole thing about a brand shifting, like, sometimes I see that happening, and I wonder what that's all about, and I wonder, like, is that something that should that should be done? Like, every few years? Or every decade? Or is it possible to like, do the shift at the wrong time or a too often, because sometimes you see, you know, like, like a Walmart or a Target or, or McDonald's or like a Wendy's, they'll like change up their, their colors, their signs, and I'll be thinking like, okay, I can see that they, they want to be noticed, again, they don't want to like be a tired, rundown kind of look. But sometimes when I see some some, like, nationwide chain, totally change up their look in their brand. I'm thinking like, why, why is that? And sometimes I'm a little confused. And does this ever cross your mind? Like, do you ever wonder if some of these big brands like change, for the sake of changing or they like what you said with Starbucks here, like that makes sense that they want to be known for something else? But sometimes you kind of see like, why are they going through a brand change when it sometimes it maybe might seem unnecessary? Yeah, I

Anthony Romano 17:16 mean, I think that the Starbucks example is more just them recognizing that they, they matter in culture, to a level that transcends the products they sell. And so their mission should represent that and all the things they do as a company should start to kind of represent that. So that's a that's a big, that's more of a leveling up your macro vision for it for your brand, what you're talking about, at the level where it's modernizing your identity system, to some degree and updating your design or your logo or your tagline or whatever. I honestly think that's as straightforward as just there's, there's brands that just understand they've got a shift with the times and they need to modernize and they need to sort of refresh the way they they, they appear in their category. And and in the minds of consumers and me, sometimes at the most basic level, it's new leader, new, a new cmo takes over and just recognizes that one of the things holding them back is that maybe in the minds of consumers, they seem dated, or they might seem not relevant, or not as modern as the other brands in the category. And that often does facilitate a brand saying, Okay, let's, let's refresh.

Robert Plank 18:36 Okay, fair enough. So it seems like so those are, I'm looking at like two different situations, but they're both a form of the feedback loop of just saying, Okay, well, how are we known? How are we thought of what are people saying about us? And then let's kind of either like go with, well, if we're Starbucks, and people are saying that we're there for the community and the closeness, let's go into that. But then if people are saying that we're kind of tired, rundown, outdated, then let's maybe counter that. So it's kind of like, like to two different sort of slightly different flavors of just responding to the the feedback. And so that's kind of great to, to think about some of these deep thoughts that it might take a while to like digest your big idea. Here's, here's, and I want to make sure that we cover this idea of client agency relationships, right, because you've dealt with these huge organizations. And I imagine that maybe there has been some kind of some sort of conflict drama, or at the very least, you want to avoid that. So what do you have to say about these client agency relationships? Like what are the do's and don'ts? What drives you crazy?

Anthony Romano 19:42 Yeah, no, it's it's a great question. I love talking about this. Because the question we always see out in the press is this idea of like, what is the what's the agency of the future? And how is it going to serve its clients and I think that's only I have to question I always kind of say that we need to be asking ourselves, what does the client of the future look like? And really, more importantly, what does the client agency partnership of the future look like? Right. So I, I kind of think of this in terms of like seven key kind of commandments, if you will. You know, the first is this idea of, you know, there's this kind of movement to more empowered and more versatile marketers like CMOS roles have changed pretty dramatically. Over the last decade, plus, you know, they're much more multilingual, they're not just responsible for the brand anymore, they're responsible for products and digital marketing, and tech and innovation and media and PR, and various things like that. So so they need to be starting to kind of hire people below them, their entire staff, it to reflect the role that they have, in some ways, you know, they need to be much more versatile and well rounded. And so I've sort of feel like, the client of the future, needs to be thinking about how their role is also a reflection of and is mirrored by the people who are on their team. And that's going to only help to service the way that they behave with their with their agency. So you know, all these different specialty territories, the more siloed off, they all are on the client side, I think the worse it is for the relationship ultimately, so versatility of the role needs to be felt across the entire marketing team that that's on the client side, I think the other thing is that there's this kind of like, blurred line. So number two, I think, is this idea that there's blurred lines between what defines the client, Oregon, what defines the agency organization, I think we're gonna see agencies starting to behave, we're already seeing agencies start to behave more like companies, and clients to start behaving more like agencies, and then meeting in the middle, at least the ones that are the relationships that are great. That's really the future. And what I mean by that is like, agencies are starting to much more create this, I create these very diverse business models, create new revenue streams, by creating IP selling that IP building products, building services, you know, packaging themselves much more as we sell products and services. Versus just, we are vendors with with with certain skills and offerings. And then clients really are obviously building more dynamic, vibrant, internal organizations as well. So I think there's a lot of colocation going on a lot of collaboration, a lot of co creation. So I think this idea of like blurring the lines, there's, there's not this brick wall anymore between clients and agencies as there used to be. That's the future as well, I think you're gonna you probably know this, to some degree, depending how close to the agency and client world you are. But there was a, there was an AAA study, the Association of national advertisers a study that's been I think it's done like every three or four years or so. But there that said something like almost 80% of the AMA members, which are marketers across the world, are sorry, plus the US that reported that they have some form of an in house agency operation inside their walls already, right. And it was, in a significant percentage of them said that it's been established and growing over the last like five years. So with that in mind, like agencies have to recognize that we have to figure out a way to coexist in that world, right, you know, how do we augment what they do internally? How do we kind of like build our model around theirs? How do they build theirs around ours? And how do we really start seeing each other as an extension of each other's teams. So I think this idea of being able to coexist in a world where clients are starting to build creative operations inside their walls, is and then figuring out how each of us work together in that environment is definitely going to define kind of the partnership of the future. The fourth area, I'd say is this idea that clients always say they want their agencies to be faster, they want speed, they want quality, they want low cost, they want agility, you know, they want you to be nimble. But I think the future success is really based on this idea that they need to be that too, right? They need to change the way that they operate internally. So it's got to be reciprocal this adaptability this agility, like for it to really work in the future, I think clients have to be the very same thing that they're expecting their agencies to be. Or it doesn't really work. And I think that's, that's starting to become much, much clearer a couple other areas. And then And then, if you have any questions, please stop me. But like, you know, the other thing is this idea that you may or may not have heard the the quote that people use, sometimes this idea that clients get the agencies they deserve. And it's definitely vice versa. So the more that a client can invest in the relationship, trust the agency, the more the partnership will flourish. You know, I think the more transparency, more collaboration, the more that there's a joint ownership of what we're trying to build together, the more there's clarity around what we're trying to achieve, and what success looks like. So I think this idea of joint accountability. And the how we actually get work done together is is has definitely been a truth for a while, but definitely, in this crazy world that we're living in now, I think it's becoming even more and more important. So you know, that that would be a big one for me. And I think the biggest thing in our industry that is, has been controversial lately, I think, is this idea of Pricing and Value and agencies value their services, and whether clients understand that we run a business too. And at the end of the day, you know, there's a value to what we do. And and I think over time, the ad agency business has started to almost devalue itself and respond to the demands that are on us to lower cost. Because we've become, it's become so competitive and winning business retaining business has become so competitive, that we've managed to sacrifice some of the value that we deliver to clients. And so I think, I think this kind of the future, there's going to be a little bit of a reckoning on Pricing and Value and making sure that clients see the value, they appreciate the value, they're willing to pay for the value and agencies hold true to how, how they deliver that value. And then lastly, I would just say this, to that point, you know, empowering and kind of monetizing bravery, I think the, in the future, this side, the client of the future, the partnership of the future, you know, they the clients need to be brave, and they need to encourage their agencies to be brave, I think, you know, the best work is done when clients are willing to kind of stretch and move into new territories and keep things kind of exciting and fresh and push their business Riri leads to better ROI, efficiency, better ROI impact when it really, really works. And so I think, you know, the ebbs and flows of the economy, kind of the one thing that's that we've, I've certainly learned over 30 years and doing this is that, you know, when you lean into innovation, and you lean into bravery, it definitely pays out in a pretty significant way. So those are kind of the, what I was referring to with you, or at least sort of Seven Commandments of, of what I see as as the successful client agency, relationship with the future. And

Robert Plank 28:37 it is helpful hearing about those seven commandments because there's so much going on, and that will be going on, right, it was as far as the the added complexity and all the responsibilities and things that are expected of us and the crazy way that we're all changing. And so yeah, there's a lot of just really deep, profound ideas in there that we need to be thinking about. But it's a podcast. So we don't have many hours to unpack every little, every little idea. So if you forgive me for moving on a little bit, like we're mentioning about how the future is going to be just this this crazy uncertainty and how it is exciting, and how you are kind of seeing how things are changing. And so AI is something that gets talked about a lot, right? They talk about AI as far as like generating the text and the communicating and making the ads and analyzing the big data and everything in there. So like what do you see AI being used for as far as marketing of the future because like, it's, it can be so overwhelming just thinking about the possibilities and the vaporware. So AI and marketing in the future. What are your thoughts there?

Anthony Romano 29:46 Yeah, you know, I think apologies for the camera. By the way, it looks like it keeps going in and out. But sounds like this will probably be more of an audio podcast. Yeah, we just go with it. Apologies apologies. I'm having some trouble today. Yeah, I mean, look, I think we've all heard that AI is is right now very experimental inside most creative agencies, it's shifting from experimental to being much more of a tool that we're using to enhance what we do and enable what we do and accelerate what we do. And so all those things are true, right. So whether you're in strategy, or whether you're in creative or whether you're in, you know, the data space, or media space, every discipline within our agency right now is thinking, and really hard about how to leverage the tool to make what they do better, right. So I like to not think of it. And I certainly haven't seen it, replace anything currently, right? What it's doing instead is exactly what I said, it's sort of strengthening what we do and making us faster, better, more efficient at delivering certain tasks. So in the creative space, tons of evolution right now on how it enhances video, and what you're able to achieve for much less time and money in creating video. And so a lot of tools out there that are that we're experimenting with, and now has been shifting into real projects that were getting compliance, to put out amazing video storytelling without having to incur millions of dollars of shoot costs and things like that. So that's already happening, right? In the areas of media, programmatic tons of AI, applications are playing out every day, inside our agency. And so I really do nothing, I guess the nutshell is, I really do see this as currently just as an as an enabler. And as as a way to sort of strengthen what we do. That doesn't necessarily mean that people's jobs won't change three to five years from now, as it continues to accelerate, you know, the idea that a lot of the manual tasks that someone has to carry out as, for example, immediate planner, maybe they'll become more of a, they'll be able to elevate, think more strategically and just become more of a validation to some of the mundane tasks they used to have to do. So it will change people's jobs, it'll change the focus of the way they approach their job, it but I see it as unlocking your ability to sort of elevate and think more strategically, than having to maybe do some of the basic blocking and tackling in a given job depending on what your job is. So more and more over time, I think we'll start to see not replacement, but change.

Robert Plank 33:01 And it seems like we're requiring ourselves to level up and to, to think in a larger scale and kind of be more administrative and work with it instead of just instead of the the kind of the fear thinking of, well, you know, it'll be a replacement like we ourselves need to feel like you figured out these new skills. As soon as the AI gets out of beta mode and gets figured out that we can we can something that we work with, and and kind of figure out these new skills and I love kind of the how you put it there of you. So you kind of you check on the work, you kind of just validate what's there. So you're still useful, but the AI is just kind of augmenting, enhancing what it is that you're doing. And so these are all some amazing, big, excellent ideas for us to be thinking about. And how do you fit in? How does what sort of problem does Laflin constable solve? And how does someone know if they're listening to this podcast? If there are if they're one of those hot, ideal prospects, if they should be reaching out to you? And what for?

Anthony Romano 34:03 Yeah, no, I appreciate that. So yeah, no, I think I mean, we're, we're what we refer to as a full service agency. Anchored by, you know, creativity. So I think, you know, the, what we write brands that actually reach out to us are the ones that acknowledge that they're at some kind of inflection point, that's when we're at our best, like, you know, and that can be that I'm early stage brand that's looking to kind of break through build my brand. So there's the build piece that clients come to us if they want to kind of accelerate and scale their business from you know, and just want to increase their maturity level and get out in the world more. That's an inflection point. You know, launching a new product, launching a new campaign, all the way to Hey, what we're doing in from a marketing perspective It doesn't really feel like it's driving the results we need to drive, we need to rethink, and reinvent the way we approach our marketing mix. And so all of these kind of represent what we call inflection points. And I would say most of the clients, if not all, who come to us are at that, that crossroads and are looking for someone to kind of help them them through that. And we're particularly strong at at, you know, using a very, as you put out earlier, you know, the art and science to solving kind of some of those big business challenges. So yeah, I think that's, that's when we're best. Wonderful.

Robert Plank 35:38 So if you're at that inflection point, then you should contact Anthony romano@loflin.com. And how does someone know if they're, if they're the right size company for you? Like, do you require like a set number of like employees or revenue sizes? How does someone know if they're the right size?

Anthony Romano 35:57 Yeah, no, not at all. I mean, we, like I said, we work with, you know, we work with with brands that are small startups all the way up to big fortune 500, fortune 200 companies, you know, so what it really comes down to is just, if if someone's coming to us with a relatively smaller budget, we'll just right size, the scope to the budget? You know, I mean, we are, and we'll determine like, Are we right for you, you know, it's all about like, when a client comes to you, it's all about just aligning on what are you trying to achieve? And what what money? What's your budget to try to achieve that. And if those two things line up really well, we'll get off and running with with a client. And that doesn't necessarily mean that it's always hundreds of 1000s of dollars. Because their expectations for what they're trying to achieve might marry up to the dollars they have. And if that's the case, we're willing to help him we know if a brand has a really interesting, meaty challenge, and we can be proud of the work that we do for them. We'll take it on, you know.

Robert Plank 37:05 Yes, very logical. Have the conversation figure out that right fit. And so as far as a next step, call to action, laugh l i n.com. Is that the logical place to go? Or is there a more specific webpage?

Anthony Romano 37:18 Nope, that's in love. Thank you, if you if you did laughlin.com You'd get there. If you did Laughlin constables.com you get there.

Robert Plank 37:25 Wonderful. And and what is a Laughlin constable anyway, you think of constable is like a sheriff of a town. But what is the meaning behind that? Yeah, good

Anthony Romano 37:34 question. So Steve Loughlin was the founder of the agency 48 years ago, and his his sons, John and Pat are my co chief creative officers, as well. So we're a bit of a family owned business, as well. And then constable was John Constable was the original. That's his last name, even though I know that word constable as other other derivatives. He John Constable was the co founder alongside Steve Laughlin. And so it's just their their last names. Yeah, it's exciting

Robert Plank 38:08 as history and so laughlin.com is the place to go. And speaking of history, Anthony, like you've had all these kind of these profound insights, right? You have all this kind of, like, philosophical knowledge. So speaking of that, do you have a fun quote or lesson to wrap us up? Because, you know, we get all this information, we got all this theory, but it helps to have like one final little soundbite to make us think or excite us or motivate us. So does anything pop out of your mind? As far as a cool or less than just to really end this fun conversation? Yeah,

Anthony Romano 38:41 it's a it's a great, it's a great question. And I think that probably the place I go, is what I what I often advise young people coming into the industry to think about and that is, you know, we talked about bravery earlier, I think this idea of, of not being afraid to fail and failing hard, and, and that's okay. You know, I think embracing the idea of failure is, is probably the best advice I've ever gotten. Not to be discouraged by it. But, you know, really, it's just a reminder to just go after it. It's a reminder to just, you know, never be afraid to fall down. If you think about the people you've worked with over your career. The ones who are fearless, or appear fearless, or approach their job fearlessly are the ones I think who always get the most out of out of their job and always and always are the most impressive to me, so fail hard.

Robert Plank 39:50 I love it fail hard. Failure is a part of success you think about in order to learn how to walk or how to run or how to ride a bike, you probably fell down a few times. I've scraped your knees you probably felt that bike fell down. So fail hard. Great advice. Let's think about that as we go to Laughlin Constable, which is laughlin.com Anthony Romano wonderful speaking with you. Yeah,

Anthony Romano 40:12 it was great. Great speaking with you as well, Robert and sorry about the technical glitches but it was great conversation.

Robert Plank 40:21 This is Robert plank from the marketer of the day podcast which you can find at marketer of a day.com for more episodes, and d f y podcast.com. forward slash free if you want to know more about running your own podcast or running a better or more fun or easier or less time intensive podcast, go to D F. Ly podcast.com/free To find out more right this instant