1130: School of Podcasting: The Secret to Podcast Success with Podcast Consultant Dave Jackson

Robert Plank 0:04 Hey, welcome back. It's the marketer of the day podcast with podcaster of the world the number one podcaster. As far as I'm concerned, his name is Dave Jackson. Dave Jackson is from school of podcasting.com. His show has over 3 million downloads, and Dave has helped hundreds of people plan, launch and grow their podcast. He is the author of the book profit from your podcast. Dave is a featured speaker at events. So we're going to be talking about the exciting magic randomness and comedy of podcast, Dave especially says that you don't make money from your podcast, you make money with your podcasts, we'll find out about all these aspects of the podcasting world and more. So Dave, glad to be speaking with you.

Dave Jackson 0:49 Now, Robert, thanks for having me. This is gonna be fun.

Robert Plank 0:53 I think so it always is right when you have a couple of podcasters talking podcasting. And I am just amazed at your energy with many of the things that you have going on. And you have your school of podcasting membership. And you have like the the office hours and the many meetings and like we had one conversation a few weeks ago, and you were talking to me about all these tools and all these things to do. So I'm excited to jump into just your your energy and your kind of awareness and attention. But in your own words, like what are you all about? What has you so excited?

Dave Jackson 1:25 I think my I always say when you give a podcast or to a salesman, they will see it as a tool to sell. If you you know, and I'm My background is in teaching. So I The minute I saw podcasting and kind of got what it was, I was excited, because I'm gonna get to learn from different cultures and all sorts of stuff. So that's the biggest thing that I get excited about. And just the fact that that really got me is when I started. I've been podcasting for maybe two weeks, I'm in the middle of nowhere, Ohio, and a guy from Nuremberg, Germany sent me a voicemail, and I was like, wait a minute, he first found my show in the first place, and then be he's on the other side of the planet and liked it. And I was like, Oh, this is amazing. This is and that's really it's still what gets me pumped up. It's just the fact that I get to, I get to meet millions of people that meeting millions of people.

Robert Plank 2:13 Right, you said there's something to this whole podcasting thing. And I a few years ago, I saw some kind of blog posts or who knows what, and someone showed a picture of 100 people standing in a room. And they said 100 people listening to your podcast is this, the people that that are actually like listening and engaged in the reach out to you. Because it's easy to discount 100 of something right 100 clicks or 100 views of your tweet or views of your YouTube video, you're like 100 is not that much. But 100 Like really dedicated fans. That's something that we want, especially when there's the competition, we want to stand out all those other things. And so what is your sales pitch as a teacher for podcasting? Why should we be using it? And why is it just changed the world? Yeah, so

Dave Jackson 3:00 when you say 100 people, the teacher in me divided that by 20, because a full classroom was 20 people. So that's five people. That's a whole hallway in my old building where I used to teach that could be listening to, you know, they could be watching Netflix, they could be playing games, they could be doing Sirius satellite radio, so there's no spam and podcasting. But the big thing I love about it, is, first of all, pick a topic that you love to talk about. That's kind of a given. But when you are producing content on a regular basis, whatever that schedule is, you're seen as reliable. I have people that are like, Dave, you're with me every Monday on the way to the feed store, you know, and I'm like, okay, so you become part of their routine, when you have a consistent schedule. And then if you bring value to the show, and people like Oh, I like this show, this person helps me whatever the heck you're helping them do. And that could be you know, you could make them laugh, cried think grown, educate whatever you're trying to do, do something like that. And then anytime you can tell a story that fits the point you're trying to make. So when Mohammed Ali died, he was a huge hero of mine. And I have a podcast about podcasting. So I had to talk about podcasting. But I really wanted to talk about Muhammad Ali. So I said, Alright, here are like five things. Every podcaster can learn from Muhammad Ali, like number one, totally unique. nobody like him, always promoting super talented, you know, I just went down the list. And so by doing that, my audience got to know a little bit about me. But I was still teaching them podcasting. And so when you have that, wow, this person seems reliable because he's producing this content. I like him because he seems like a nice guy. Oh, and he's giving me valuable stuff. When you then come out with some sort of product. They're like, well, this is a no brainer, because if his free stuff, is this good, how much is his paid stuff? It's gonna be amazing that so it does really help as a that's why we say so many people try to make money with their podcasts like by selling the mp3 and that's a strategy but it only works for about 3% of your audience. whereas if you know who your audience is, and you have a product that fits those needs, then it's a whole different ballgame.

Robert Plank 5:07 I agree completely. And a lot of us take for granted when you see someone with a huge following, and if there's like, well, they had to do a lot to build that up. And when you say, Okay, well now now I want to make some money, right? Now I want to drop some affiliate links or sell a course or something. It's like, well, what's your audience been built up to? And so you're saying that we definitely need to be consistent. And that's, that's easily enough generated, if you're organized, you have a schedule, you do your content somewhat ahead of time. And you're saying that we need to have this personality, and that we need to figure out what people value and give that to them. And value is not just limited to just how to step by step right? We can have the personality aspect and tell a story and dance around an idea like working Muhammad Ali to your podcasting, add value in there is pretty cool, because then you're teaching something that sticks. And like you said, you're an educator. And we've all had those teachers, where they just kind of opened up the book to chapter seven and listed off some facts and figures. But when you made it interesting, then it sucks sometimes, like years or decades later. And so you're you're saying that we need to have the community to this podcasting need to be consistent. And I don't know about you, but I found the consistently comes from what we're doing here, you have different guests on your show. And then you never run out of your own knowledge. And there's always kind of fresh perspectives. And can you tell us about that about just the social aspect of it? Especially because maybe people say, Oh, I don't know if I can work my social skills. I don't know if I can have people on my show, like, what's all the fuss about? As far as having like a multiperson? podcast?

Dave Jackson 6:48 Yeah. So when we say value and consistency, it's great to have a consistent schedule, because that leads them to, like I said, you become part of the routine. But you also have to consistency and value. And that doesn't like you said, it doesn't have to be well step a do this step three. If you've had a really crappy day, the way you might serve that audience is I'm funny. So you have a show where you have weird, wacky stories from the internet, or whatever it is that somehow makes people laugh and forget the fact that my boss is a jerk like that serving your audience. It's not always like, Oh, let me show you how to, you know, put this into this. And that comes out. And yeah, you know, it can be entertaining. And so or, or thinking there's a show I listened to called leaning towards wisdom by a guy called Randy Cantrell. And he's just like, this wise old person that just, you know, throws these things on that doesn't make much sense. Now, when you do that, that's why you got to think you know, and it's just like any, like, you know what, Randy's got a point. And he gets me thinking, so there are all sorts of different ways of, of delivering value. But, and now I forget what your question was. But I think that was that was it, but basically, staying consistent and delivering that value. And again, putting yourself in it, because the thing that I'm starting to see is, so many people are leaning hard on chat GPT to make the content. And I'm like, huh, because chat GPT doesn't have any fun stories. And if you do tell it to tell me a story. And then you say it's your story. There's there's two things that every podcaster starts with, and that's no audience, and integrity. And when you start selling chat, GPT stories as your own, you're dancing on thin ice. And so for me, let chat GPT do all the stuff that you hate doing. Let it spice up your show notes or, you know, haven't do some artwork or something like that, but you should be the the source of your content, and then maybe let chat GPT polish that a little bit. But that's the part I see that I get worried about whenever it's like I just type it in. And then I read, I read the thing that Chachi Beatty did and I'm like, because there's nothing more fun than listening to someone read their podcast to you. Yeah, that's no thank you.

Robert Plank 9:02 Right. And it's like, when you see enough jet GBT, you can recognize when you see like this weird list, and it even even bring up this whole idea of having Chad GBT generate the stories for you. They're always really bad. It's always like, oh, Sarah was a single mother of four. And it's like, this seems like more made up than if a person made it up. And so yeah, we need to have our personality in there. Don't use it to replace you but use it to enhance what it is that you're already doing. And you said you forgot the question. I was just asking you about like the social mobility of it right? Like you you're a people person. I joined your membership site we met we had a conversation and I see all these just you're eager to answer questions and people are jumping in and so can you tell us about like Do you have any fun insight just about the what you've learned or done with other people?

Dave Jackson 9:54 Yeah, the beauty of it is whatever your topic is, like I remember I helped this one guy, then He was I want to start a podcast and talk about comic books. And he goes, I know, there's 8 million shows about comic books. He goes, but nobody, my family wants to talk about Batman. And I'm like, so I always refer to that guy as Batman in the basement, because that's kind of what he was doing. But as much as we're all introverts at times, when you get around other people, and you find out that Oh, you like Batman, too. Now you've got something to talk about. And I know, Haley Radke is a person that does a show called adoptees on. And it's all about being adopted, because the only people that understand what it's like to be adopted are people that have been adopted. And there's some just heart wrenching stories, like you always see the, you know, the after school special, where they look for their biological parents, and after three years, they find them and there's a big giant hug. Well, there are times when people spend decades looking for their biological family, only to get rejected again. And I'm like, Oh, it hurts to say. And they said, but there are other people in their Facebook group in this case, that have gone through that. And so that's one of the great social things about it. And for me, just interviewing people, I always people go, should I do an interview show? Or should I do a solo show? And Mike, why limit yourself? Do both? Because when you do a solo show, you increase your influence, because you're just talking to that one invisible friend across your desk. And when you do a interview show, now you're growing your network. And so that whole you know, it's not who you know, it's who knows you. So that whatever your topic is, if it's, you know, model trains, and you interview somebody, then somebody later goes, Yeah, this thing about model Trinsic Oh, I know a guy, I that person could do that. So it's the social part that really does come into play, and just things I've done. I remember once I was in the middle of nowhere, Oklahoma, and I announced, hey, I'm gonna be in nowhere Oklahoma, in October, and somebody emailed me said, I live in nowhere Oklahoma. Like, can I take you to dinner? And I was like, wow, that's kind of wild. So yeah, it's it's, it's interesting, just running into people a that listen to your show, and then be just somehow having this community that just starts to form around you. And it's awesome, because everybody loves the same thing you do. Because if they don't like what you like, well, they won't listen.

Robert Plank 12:10 And we're definitely living in that age now, where we have so many choices, right? There's who who knows how many streaming networks, how many TV shows how many movies are out, there's just so much choice out there. And so we need to be making a podcast about these things that we appreciate and enjoy. And that's a cool insight that you had there about having the mix between the solo and the interviewer don't limit yourself, because you have these dear friend benefits. And I just had a coaching caller earlier today where the lady was like, Well, should I have like this number of solo shows, and this number of interview shows and I'm just like, just make a mix, make whatever, like whatever it gets the content flowing, it's really easy to like, be a perfectionist and plan all the stuff and then it never becomes a reality like just be be imperfect and take some action. And so but then when we're thinking about making our podcast show, the naysaying creeps in, right, the negativity. And a lot of this thing you hear a lot about is like, oh, everything's already taken every idea for podcasting, someone's already got a show about that. So like, what would you say to someone like that? If they're worried about the uniqueness of their show? And they want to have like a clever hook and have it be kind of comedic? Like what hope is there in this day and age when there's millions of podcasts? Yeah,

Dave Jackson 13:28 I guess that's why there's no new books in the bookstores. And there's no new, there's no more new people in college playing football, because well, the pros already have all the people they need. So yeah, it's one of those things a not everybody podcast forever. So there are shows that will eventually they'll retire, and somebody's gonna have to take over that spot. And so that's the first thing. And then like I said, I mean, every year we get bombarded with fitness, how to drop 50 pounds in five minutes, just you know, blah, blah, blah, book, and it's the same message every year. And so what will happen is, there are like, I'm right now I'm in my middle age. So it's funny that most of my audience is, you guessed it, middle aged. So you will attract people that are kinda like you in a way. Now I have younger people and have older people and things like that. But, you know, if I drop a Fonzie reference, nobody under 30 is gonna know who that is. Unless they're watching Nick at Night. So I, I'm just myself. And by doing that, I attract the people who either like me or you don't and you kind of have to be okay with that, because we all want to be liked by everybody. But on the other hand, that's just not going to happen. And so you just be yourself, put the information out there. And it's for me, it takes kind of a little bit of time to get comfortable behind the mic. So if your first episodes are going to be awful, I always say get somebody not named mom to listen to them. So sometimes there's some really low hanging fruit that you can, you know, easily fix because you didn't realize you were blowing a bunch of hot air into the microphone making horrible noises that somebody else might tell you about. So get some feedback on those upfront, and then get going and just realize that the first time you shot a basketball, you probably didn't make it in, but maybe after the 10th or 11th, one you started hitting them in, and or tying your shoes or driving a car, you know, it's, I'm a guitar player. And when you first start playing guitars, it it actually hurts, because you end up with calluses on the end of your fingers. And it takes a while for those to build up. So it's a lot of fun, because you're talking about that passionate thing you love. But you know, after a while, you're like, Oh, this isn't, you know, I'm not on The Tonight Show yet. So what's going on? I've done six episodes, why isn't Jimmy Fallon call on me, well, hang tight, you got to keep going a little longer than that six episodes.

Robert Plank 15:45 You need to put in those repetitions and be yourself but also be the best version of yourself or a good enough, a slowly improving incrementally over time version of yourself. And this idea of well, you can't get an audience and you can't put out the content unless you continue with the show and make a commitment and be dedicated. And then you also mentioned about how sometimes shows end right that what did they call it pod fade? Or sometimes someone just decided it's not a priority don't have time audiences isn't what it should be audience isn't growing. And so how do we prevent that? How do we maximize someone's chances of success? And make sure that the podcast grows and they stay excited

Dave Jackson 16:24 about it? Yeah, the the biggest question you have to not should you have to answer is why am I doing this? Because if you don't get your why you quit. So that could be I want to be seen as an expert, I want to get the word out about my subject, because nobody will give me the time of day on mainstream media. Or, you know, I want to have a better connection with my potential customers and bring in leads or I just want to have fun with my friend and talk about Batman, you know, whatever it is, like the person wants to talk about Batman in the basement. The minute they put out their first episode. Congratulations, you have a successful podcast, you're doing exactly what you wanted to do. You want to talk about Batman in the basement. So you have to know that but you also have to know who. So when you like, well, on Monday's episode, I'm going to talk about death metal. And then on Wednesday, I'm going to talk about knitting. And on Friday, I'm going to talk about golf. Like okay, what one listener is going to listen to all three of those, you have to figure out who that is. And then the hard part of podcasting is okay, what can I talk about? That is going to somehow entertain and hold the attention of the who, while slowly moving them to my why whatever that is. And that's your what? And that's the part that that gets kind of tricky. You have to figure out who it is. Because there's a big difference if you say, oh, it's for women. Okay, well, there's a big difference between a 23 year old woman and a 46 year old woman, right, they're gonna have different opinions and different priorities and things like that. So the clearer you can get on your who, and the clearer you can get on your why that will get you going in the right direction. And then the thing I always tell people to do is the minute you get any kind of positive feedback, screenshot it, do something so that you can have this little pile. So on those days, when you're like, ah, time to start the podcast, you're like, hold on, and then you go back and you read those like, oh, yeah, Bill in Boston, I got to do this for Bill, and it keeps you going.

Robert Plank 18:19 That's powerful. And that's deep to collect the positivity to get you through when the natural pessimism creeps back in. And these are some more even more deep thoughts here. Have you have your who that you're targeting? And you want to get them towards your why. And you use the what to get them there. Yeah. And that's really interesting for us to think about, and it seems like that would, it would get us through some of the little difficulties. And it seems like a lot of the little stuff is what holds people up, right? Like he was here all the time. Like, oh, what camera should I use? What podcast host should I use? And I don't know about you? But my answer is always like you, you start with what you have, and you kind of build it up over time to like a better camera to a better setup to a better format. And just what what I don't want to speak for you. So what is your advice when someone says, Hey, there's this really technical specific question, and it's really holding me up? What's usually the answer?

Dave Jackson 19:17 Yeah, I always remind them I started in the basement next to a water heater and there was a flush pipe about two feet behind me. So I was praying nobody would flush the toilet while I was recording. And there was a furnace about seven feet that way so it was not at all a great recording instance. But yeah, when they're when they get hung up on the one thing, I was like, well, is that really like I had one guy that actually never launched his podcast because he just couldn't find the right intro music. And I was like, it doesn't have to be you know, like it's it's what are you going to release your your intro music as a top 40 hit. I'm like, it just needs to have the right kind of feel of the show and go with it. And I think in the end He just got cold feet. He there's some people, it's funny when you first start, you think about the audience, you know, there's the Unimog. Remember, when you first start, and you really publicize the heck out of that first episode, you're gonna get 26 downloads, if your cousin's listen, you know, you're just starting out. And so unless you've got a huge budget to promote it and things like that. And so, yeah, I've seen music I've seen, like, especially right now, people think they have to do video. And I'm like, No, you can do video, but you don't have to. Because like you said, there's video where you talk into your camera, or your phone. And then there's video where it's a three camera shoot with key lights and backlighting, and now, you know, switching buttons, and also my ears. Let's just start off with can I make content and entertain people? Let's start there. Just start with audio. And then later, once you have an audience, then maybe go to Video and things like that. Yeah, start

Robert Plank 20:55 off with something and hearing some of the excuses. They're like, I need the exact music, it seems like it's having a problem. For every solution. It seems like, I'm not really sure if the problem really was the music or if it was just this guy was a little nervous. And instead of powering through, he was just like, well, maybe my my, the keyboard on my desk was like just barely to the left, it should have been to the right like it's just like just searching for reasons to not do it. And that's kind of what comes to mind whenever you whenever I see the bright shiny object because I think about those sorts of things. I'm sure you do, too. Oh, can I have three cameras and record three different videos and have someone edit it together and all the right points, I'm thinking, that's a recipe for self sabotage. For me if I had all that, if I made it, if I complicated the process that much for myself, it might kill my podcasts versus keeping it simple and consistently putting some of these things out. And so we need to be putting out our podcast and growing the audience and doing the right things and not getting hung up hung up on the wrong things. And speaking to that, when I do a podcast like this, I'm always looking for the hidden question like what's, what should I be asking? And I'm not asking. So what is that question for you? What do you wish that I Robert plank would be asking you Mr. Dave Jackson, about podcasting or anything in general?

Dave Jackson 22:14 Well, I think like you said, we get hung up on the technology. And that's really, and I get it, because like you said, it's bright and shiny, it's new, it's to look at that, like, I saw a thing where I can now record with my iPhone. And then I take a shot of my backdrop without me in it. And somehow via AI, it makes these cool, zoom in and crane shots like I have multi cameras. And I was like, Ooh, that's Nieto. But there are two things. In podcasting. There's the content, and there's the delivery. And so when we talk about multi camera shoots, and that's kind of the delivery, but if the contents no good, what's the point, a three angle shot of horrible content. Great, it looks great. But I'm not sharing that with anybody. And likewise, I can have phenomenal content. But if my audio sounds like I'm in a tin can, that's not gonna work, either. And so I think that's it so many people. I just heard somebody on a podcast and they said, it's content, content, content, and I was like, I gotta get that put on a t shirt. Because the minute your show doesn't grow, your answer your steps should be well, let's go find my audience and see what they're talking about. Maybe I can get somebody to listen to this. And give me some honest feedback. Hey, this is good. But this is kind of boring. And realize that, hey, this is your first time making media for people. You might be boring, that's okay. But you can fix it. If somebody goes yeah, this was a little too long, well then shorten it up a bit, and then just go from from there. But so many people when the first thing when it doesn't start growing, and they've spent 100 bucks on a microphone, they sound great. You don't need a $500 microphone, but their their answer is I'm gonna go buy new gear. Because that's easy to do. I go to Best Buy, go to Amazon and buy a new microphone or buy some lights, whatever it is, and you're putting bow on a pig in some cases, you got to go back it's the content it really is many times it's it's I always say dat my little like equation is downloads equals value in the episode multiplied by smart promotion, because if you don't promote it, it's not going to work. And if you don't have great content, it's not going to grow on its own.

Robert Plank 24:30 I like that equation and you're so right that many people think that oh this one thing will save me and this will finally make my podcast like a huge hit and it's like well is there's no microphone going to do it or like you said go back and correct or fix some of the content do better next time. And you're reminding me reminded me of two things one is that I used to just kind of discount myself and think like, oh, well the camera could be better and it people have like $3,000 Camera better setup and I saw An interview with Tony Robbins, and he was like in his backyard, and he had the ugly like wired White Apple headphones on. And I was like, so it doesn't I'm sure it matters, but it's not the number one thing that matters with that. And then the other thing that comes to mind is we both love Ray Edwards, right? Ready fetters is one of the coolest podcasters there is. And when he started his show a bunch of years ago, he inspired me to start a podcast, but he had these different segments, right, he had these like, five or 10 minute segments with music in between. And then I started doing that, and I got so carried away and crazy with it, that it was almost like a music video, like every, like three minutes, there was like more music and different stock, you know, stock music and this transitioning into that. And I was like, Man, this is gonna like keep someone's attention the whole way. And I got complaints, because it was like too much switching gears. And I thought like, oh, well, even if someone's bored, something will wake them up in a few minutes. And it was like, it was too much, it was too crazy. And then I think back to like, the most value, like you're talking about the value a lot the value in the interviews and podcasts and YouTubes I've seen are just like this, you get anywhere, there's two guys side by side. And not a lot of just not really production quality, right? Not a lot of high editing, just good information, something that's helpful, something that's natural, authentic, solves some problems entertains, call it a day and and make it happen. And so you know, one thing I want to get to as we're wrapping up here, though, is you mentioned promotion. And so we're always thinking about the promotion, right, the SEO, getting your guests or promote beyond their for platforms. Follow up build your list, what is your favorite way of promoting? Or what are we may be missing, that we all should be tapping into growing a show? Yeah, it's

Dave Jackson 26:46 hard to do. Because there aren't that many of these to do it. But what I've been doing, when I get asked to speak at places, I'll start off, and I'll say this is going to be kind of weird. But if you've if you have no idea who I am, like if you've never seen me, never heard me speak, I'm not offended, please raise your hand. And if you do know who I am, please keep your hand down. And I'll turn around and take a picture. And they'll be you know, 7080 people, however many people in the room with their hand up. And I'm like, that's how you grow your audience. You get your stuff in front of people that need to hear it. So I that's happy. I tried to that's happening if you want to get it. But again, there's only so many stages. So from there, like, Okay, I need people that listen to podcast. So I try to find other shows that are similar to mine, and then reach out to the person and say, Hey, are you accepting guests right now? And then if they say yes, I'm like, what format Do you want the information in? And then if they say, Oh, well, whatever a PDF, or just send me a paragraph or a link or whatever it is, because I get so many. And then I will send them a personal message, I'll go and I'll listen to their show. And I'm like, I see where you talked about, you know, this or that. Have you ever talked about this, this is what I do. And I think it would serve your audience if they knew about this, because that podcaster wants to know, their goal is to serve their audience. So if another guy comes up next to them and goes, I can help you serve your audience, then they're probably going to get you on their show. But it takes time to do that. So everybody likes to do the spray and pray, which is, hey, love your love what you're doing over at the show. It's great. And then 15 paragraphs how great you are. And I'm like, no, no, hey, my name is Dave, not that I'm an egomaniac in which show I have about four. So that's always an instant, okay, and you're in the spam folder now. So thanks for that. So anytime you can get in front of people who listen to podcast, that's great. Start a newsletter. Even if it's my, my actual newsletter is about a paragraph and a half. And then it's just links of here's what I've been doing. But I'm amazed at how much traffic i get to my website. And as much as people go, you know, rate and review me, it helps me get found because A, it doesn't help you get found in social proof. I'd rather ask them to join my email list, where I can then ask them to follow the show, buy my products, whatever it is, so I'm a big fan of start the newsletter to get going. And that can then, you know, lead to other people. And the other one is and it sounds silly, to slowly specifically and confidently ask them to share the show. Because I hear people's like, hey, you know, like if you kind of want to like you don't have to but like, you know, my website that come Okay, well, thanks, Mike. Wait, what was that? Whereas if you said, hey, you know, we're wrapping up the interview here. If you liked this particular interview with Dave Jackson, and you want to maybe share it with somebody who is also thinking of starting a podcast, could you do that for us? It'll, it'll help us grow the show, and or just send them to our website at yatta yatta yatta.com. And asking people, which you kind of go down alright, but doing it slowly, specifically and confidently. Do that. I mean, if you think about if you watch every YouTuber, they're like, like, subscribe and smash the bell. And it's like, oh, wait, I can subscribe to these. There's a subscribe button on you. I've never heard of this one. Don't know what the subscribe button is. So why do people ask us to do it? Because it works. So ask your people to share it and make an easy page on your website. So please, please do not say, find us wherever you find your podcast because most search and apps is horrible. And you're competing in that search for against about 300,000 podcasts that are active, you know, so have a page, your website.com/follow, where you've got your apple and your Spotify and Amazon and maybe a couple other ones there. Make it easy to follow the show. I could go on for hours on that answer.

Robert Plank 30:32 But But what's good about what you've given us so far as these are all doable to do list items, and you're making me flashback to like I've seen plenty of podcast websites like that, where I love pages like that when it lit like I can choose which platform I can click on because when it's an apple podcast link, I'm like, is it going to open up that really slow and bulky Windows program for Apple podcasts, iTunes, I really like that. And if it's a Spotify, I'm like, Sure, maybe but if there's like a YouTube version, I'm like, I get YouTube YouTube's my language. If your podcast is on YouTube, that's the button I'm going to click on. And so I like to have those choices. And the other kind of task list is you've given us or helpful as well, right? You make the newsletter, build that email list, tell them what you're up to. It's doable enough, have just a quick blurb have some bullet points have some links, we can all do that. And then the podcast guesting thing. For some reason, I don't do that enough. I was even I recorded a real event at this morning. Like I need to be doing more of getting myself on other shows. And I like how and I think maybe what's been blocking me is the spray and pray thing. And so I like your advice there about listen to his show or two of theirs and approach them from the angle of, well, you're a podcast host, and you want to help your audience and you talk about this similar subject. And I want to help you help your audience by being on and delivering some value. And these are all doable things and all things that we should and could be doing. But because we're on a podcast interview right now, it's a little superficial, right? People listen to a podcast, they get some ideas, some insights, but they don't necessarily get the solution. They don't get the the app or the membership site or the book. And so now it's plugging time, right? You mentioned before about how you don't just sheepishly say, subscribe or share it but plug a real dang URL and and my real dang URL is dF y podcast.com. And your real doing your Dave Jackson is School of podcasting.com. So what's the next step logical call to action if someone listens to her interview here, and they're amazed and enthused about what's possible, and they want to find out more about this intriguing Dave Jackson guy who repaints his front house steps, where should they go? What should they do?

Dave Jackson 32:49 Yeah, go over sent your listener go to school of podcasting.com/listener. That'll save you a little bit on either your monthly or yearly subscription. And that subscription comes with not a seven day not a 14 day but an actual 30 day money back guarantee. So if on day 27 You're like yeah, this podcasting thing isn't really for me. You can join worry free. I'll give you your money back and wish you well as you go on to some other hobby of something like that. So yeah, School of podcasting.com/listener.

Robert Plank 33:17 And what is school of podcasting all about? What's the fuss about?

Dave Jackson 33:20 Yeah, it's it's courses is the first part. So you've got from planning your podcast to choosing the gear if you don't have one, how to build a website, how to do interviews, all I mean, really, from from Step A all the way to world domination, it's in the courses. But then you also have unlimited one on one consulting with me. So if people go like so I could, if I could book a meeting with you on Monday, and I go, if it's available, take it. And they're like, okay, but can I do that then on Wednesday I go if it's available, take it and I'm like, but what if I wanted for me if it's available, take it and so far, I'm not having any problems, like I've never had somebody go, I can't find a time to book you. I do a lot of asynchronous kind of training, I use an app called volley. And that's great for people that are like Dave, I'd love to do one on one with you. But I'm in Britain, and it's 330 in the morning, and I'm like, Hey, you're here. Let's do it this way. So there's that. And then the community is a lot of fun. I just had group coaching last night, and a lot of that is just open q&a. But it's also you know, we have a new member of the School of podcasting is the art director on Chicago PD, the TV show. And so, you know, she was sharing some insights on that we've got retired pastors, we've got comedy writers, we've got accountants, it's you know, we've got video people we've got Robert in there, which is great. So it's the community to me is my one of my favorite parts. So it's, there's a lot there to do. And like I said, if you don't like it, stick around for 29 days and I'll give you your money back.

Robert Plank 34:47 Very cool. And you're a true teacher right? And you know that there are multiple ways of learning sometimes in school, you take the test, you read the textbook, you do the homework, you listen to the lecture, you watch the video, and the same way In School of podcasting, you take the course you do the one on one with David do the group sessions and things like that. So that way, you can hit it from these different angles. And you can make sure that your podcasting journey succeeds. And you're not just someone that's, you know, woulda, shoulda, coulda wants to have a podcast someday, maybe you watched a couple of videos on YouTube and wondered why and never really happened didn't stick because you didn't really commit, right? You didn't really join the school of podcasting. And you weren't around these people that were really like, are excited about podcasting. And as we mentioned, I think we mentioned earlier about this idea of different people doing different things with their podcasts. And sometimes that kind of gets you excited about what you can do. And it's not just some other boring, you know, accounting podcast, you kind of can make it exciting and kind of jazz it up in your own way. And so as people are heading towards school of podcasting.com/listener I'm really curious about just a final soundbite or a final life or business or podcast insight from you. So do you have anything as far as like an insight quote or lesson or something like that to share with us for one final podcasting soundbite to end with a bang instead of a whimper?

Dave Jackson 36:13 Yeah, for me, I got fired from my first job because I was painfully shy, I would have a hard time talking to the customers. I mean, I was I put the capital I an introvert, and the teacher that got me the job, but this was I was in high school. And he said, Look, Dave, you need to be more like your buddy Scott. And my buddy Scott is Monkey our all the time like he is he puts the E and extrovert and I was like, oh, that's just not me. He's like, all right. He's like, just act the way you want to be. And someday you will be the way you act. Now. Today, we call that fake it till you make it. But it works. And so you don't have to be great to start be that's Zig Ziglar line. You don't have to be great to start but you do have to start to be great. And Garth Brooks, Tom Hanks, and Meryl Streep, Sir Brian May the guitar player of Queen all those people have impostor syndrome. Like Tom Hanks was on The Today Show. And he said every time I finished a movie, I'm assuming that's my last one. And no one will ever hire me. So if you have that in your head of like, why would anybody listen to you? Well, there are a lot of really famous people that feel that exact same way. And you'll be surprised. It's always kind of funny because people start and they're like, I nobody's going to listen to me. And so they're worried about nobody listening. And then all of a sudden, like Dave, I just went over like 100 downloads so that I can that like, yeah, people are listening to me. And that then makes them kind of freak out. They're like, Oh, the people aren't listening to me and we got isn't that fun. So don't be afraid, come on over and start because it's kind of a bumper sticker joke. But you either end up with a great podcast, or a great story about that time when you started a podcast. So come on over and have some fun.

Robert Plank 37:49 I love it, we need to have fun. And I can definitely relate to the shyness and the being stuck in your head and the self pity self sabotage all that bad stuff and, and wanting to be that more extroverted person you think Well, well, you can change, it won't be instant. And what what would you have to do in order to change, you'd have to have some different behaviors, different thinking, take some risks. And for that middle part, fake it till you make it. And even though it doesn't feel genuine at first, just act that way. And then eventually, you'll have fun doing it. And you'll get the results that you want to have when you are shy in your in your little box and you think hey, you know that person who can just talk to anyone? Why can I do that? Well, you know, podcasting is a great way to get yourself on that track to get out of your comfort zone, to speak with strangers to build your audience, including those people from middle of nowhere, Oklahoma, and you can start on that journey by going to school of podcasting.com/listener Mr. Dave Jackson, who is part of the tech support team on Lipson, he is your guy. He's even been inducted into the Academy of podcasters Hall of Fame. So he is the foremost expert for you to get walk through that whole roadmap that he described from the equipment to the show to the hosting to recording the content School of podcasting.com/listener is the place to go. You'd be glad you did. And thank you very much Mr. Dave Jackson for showing up giving us some cool insights, some fun stories and allergies all of it. I had a blast. I hope you did too.

Dave Jackson 39:22 Oh, Robert. Oh, he's great hanging out with you, buddy. Appreciate it.

Robert Plank 39:27 Thank you for tuning in to the marketer of the day podcast. marketer of the day is managed by dfy podcast claim your 12 podcast boosters at dfypodcast.com/free