Ben Gioia, author of Influence with a Heart and Marketing with a Heart, tells us how to use trust marketing for greater income, influence, and impact.
Ben has helped AARP launch one of the world’s biggest magazines with 32 million circulation, and he’s a trained, or he’s trained top business leaders at Stanford University, and supported the ALS Association in improving healthcare and quality of life for thousands of people with Lou Gehrig’s Disease after almost dying 4 times in 72 hours on a hike in India. We’re going to have to talk about that for sure. Ben received a gift, a fire inside to make a bigger impact. Today, he teaches entrepreneurs, visionaries, organizations, and leaders how to communicate with more influence by using more empathy, story, and thought leadership. Lots of cool stuff. Welcome to the show, Ben.
Ben Gioia: Thank you so much, Robert. It’s a pleasure to be here, thank you for asking me.
Robert Plank: Awesome. I mean, yeah, I’m glad you stopped by. Can you kind of tell us, I mean, there’s that little bit of bio there, but can you kind of tell us in your own words what it is you do, what’s kind of driving you right now, and what makes you special?
Ben Gioia: Absolutely, absolutely. Thank you so much. Gosh. Yeah, I’m going to, I guess, start this off, kick this off with a little bit about that story in India. Basically, I had this incredible hike, 72 hours, where I almost died 4 times, and it was … My bus going, almost going off the road as we’re going up a windy mountain curve. I mean, literally, the back of the bus was like skittering the edge and almost sliding off. The second time was running from a fire. It hadn’t rained where we were in about 4 months, and literally, my guide turned to me at one point because he heard some agitated yelling, I couldn’t understand it in English, off in the distance, and he said over his shoulder, “Run,” and I said, “Run?” He went running off down the path.
Third time, we came upon a poisonous snake that I wouldn’t have seen at all, just right in the path, tiny snake. My guide fortunately stopped me, and then … The last time was running into a mountain lion, kind of stumbling upon a mountain lion. I think we were surprised, he or she was surprised, and fortunately, the mountain lion ran away; so, that was a wake-up call or a series of wake-up calls that just made me realize, “What an amazing gift this life is, my life. If I’m here on this Earth, and I’m functional and capable, I’m going to do good in the world;” so I started thinking about, “How could I do that?”
I pulled together talents, experience, all that kind of stuff, and that was the thing that brought Marketing With A Heart to the light; because I realized that there’s so many people and good in the world, there’s the whole idea of conscious business and transparency and ethical communication, all that stuff, and I realized that that needed to come into the marketing space as well. People felt good about their marketing, really would lead with value, be transparent, and really resonate and connect with the right audiences, so they could stop focusing so much on competition; and really focus on creativity and collaboration, and magnetizing the right people by speaking truthfully and honestly about themselves, who they served, what they do, and their secret sauce, and how that all makes it happen, so …
Yeah, so did that for a bunch of years, and then Marketing With A Heart kind of morphed into Influence With A Heart, which is what that is today. I launched that just a few months ago, and it’s been a rocket ship since I changed that. Influence With A Heart was what, I realized, made so much more sense for who I am and what I want to do in the world. Right after that happened, I got this 2-day training at Stanford. I wrote my second book, and I actually just got asked by Liberty Mutual Insurance Company to create content for a customer … Like a front-line customer service program that would basically help the employees be more mindful, use more empathy, and they want to roll that out to 15,000 people, so … Really, really excited about that possibility. I literally heard that, about that 2 days ago.
Robert Plank: Awesome. I mean, lots of cool things happening. As far as what it is that you do, I mean, you have the book, you have this writing … I mean, what is your business exactly that you have? Coaching clients, do you have products, like what are the pieces to it?
Ben Gioia: Yeah. Yeah. I do have coaching clients, and I’m doing speaking gigs and then a couple of consulting gigs as well. The essence of what I do is really help people articulate their purpose much more excitingly and effectively than they ever have before, both in terms of what they’re displaying to the world and in terms of themselves. Because when people get really, really clear on their purpose and are able to articulate it and get behind it, and get behind themselves, that it just, it changes the whole game. Articulating that purpose on a much higher level and then weaving that energy and even the direct articulation into their messaging, into how they’re delivering their products, into how they’re presenting themselves. When you’re operating from a place of purpose, people really resonate with that. That comes through your face-to-face energy. It comes through your writing. It comes through you on video, through how you’re presenting on video, so help get really super articulate with their message and then really also articulate their secret sauce, right?
We all have amazing history, amazing experience. Sure, not all of us died 4, all died 4 times in India, but that’s not even the point, right? It’s our story that … It’s the stories that we choose that we know are going to connect with other people, and that our great expressions are for. I help people also connect to that story, bring that out through their writing, through their communication, and kind of getting clear on that purpose and getting clear on that story. That’s the articulation to the secret sauce. When you can get that together, your positioning as a thought leader just becomes so much more powerful, because you’re not just an expert, but you’re this unique expert with this unique offering, with this unique story or set of stories, and that’s the stuff that really, really makes you, can make you resonate with the right audience and the right kind of people.
Robert Plank: Along those lines, could you share with us a little bit of maybe like a case study or something where you had one of these coaching clients, or maybe they had some good things to say, maybe they were onto something, and then you kind of ran them through your system and you were able to reposition them and articulate them better and share their secret sauce? Do you mind sharing a little bit of like a before-and-after with someone that you’ve gone through?
Ben Gioia: Yeah, I would be delighted to do that. Yeah, I have a couple of quick examples. One is, excuse me, have been working with a high-end boutique technology company here in the area that does customized apps, web apps, and websites also, but their apps are probably functioning things for hospitals, serving people with AIDS, all sorts of deep impact. What the CEO of this company really wanted to do was to do many more projects that were exciting to him, not only exciting, but really connected to his sense of purpose. We dug and dug and talked about stuff, and we realized something very, very simple and yet profound, that this person, what his secret sauce is that he speaks the language of tech and non-tech, so he can speak just as easily to a non-technical person as he’s getting a contract together, or he can talk to programmers down in the trenches and really get the things done. While it sounds like such a simple articulation, so straightforward, it has really shifted both his energy around his business, and the people he’s starting to attract.
Then another quick example is a health coach that I work with also here in the Bay Area. She does some, they have straightforward nutrition and health and mindfulness kind of things, and she also does a little bit more of what some people might consider some woo-woo healing techniques. I mean, she’s legit, don’t get me wrong, but a lot of people don’t, are still learning about alternative non-Western ways to do stuff.
Robert Plank: Oh, yeah.
Ben Gioia: It took her years to figure out … Thank you. It took her years to figure out how to express that. When we started working together, she still wasn’t there, and what we realized was that she helps stressed out professionals and urbanites in the Bay Area in Silicon Valley be happier, healthier, and more aligned with their purpose. That was a huge, huge thing, because it wasn’t just, “Oh, I’m a health coach,” but it was, really gave her the ability to do the thing that she loves, that she’s excellent at, and position that around the people that she wants to attract most.
Robert Plank: Along those lines, is there a little bit of a method to the madness? Like when you look at these businesses to help, do you eyeball it, or do you list out hundreds of things, or do you ask any deep probing questions? What goes to your head? What’s the process between going from, you hear about their business, into what they should be doing instead?
Ben Gioia: Absolutely, absolutely, yeah. I will check out their website, of course, and kind of do, I think, what many marketers would do when they were looking at somebody’s content. Just basically go, “Okay, are they talking to one particular audience, or are they are connecting with the pains and emotions and fears and dreams and desires and all that stuff?” I look at that and get a sense of what it is, and then what I do is, I give them a questionnaire. I have a customized questionnaire that I use, and I ask them kind of like, “What’s your purpose? What’s your secret sauce?” I ask them in a more kind of one-to-one way to answer all of those questions, and those questions are geared toward the information that they should ostensibly be sharing through their marketing, through their communications, etc. What I often find, like 9 out of 10 times, is that what people say in that questionnaire to me is radically different than what they say on their websites and what they say on LinkedIn about themselves.
I think the reason for that is because there’s the whole notion of what I should say, quote-unquote should say and how I should present myself, and how I should look to the public. Then those things are fine, but this is a human-to-human interaction all the time, even when we’re on the web, right? The stuff that needs to come through is the human stuff, and my questionnaire helps people really, really get to that human stuff. After they do that and I review that, the questionnaire, I get back on the phone and I say, “Hey, your website says this, but you say this, and this sounds true, and you sound excited over here, so why don’t we look at bringing more of you, your story, your amazing background, your secret sauce, into the mix, and really put you, or at least put your energy right out front?”
Robert Plank: Do you think there’s a reason why the public-facing bio, I guess, and the public-facing stuff doesn’t match up with the questionnaire? Is it a matter of people being too careful and afraid to look stupid, or was there more time to kind of think through their message between when they first put up the webpage versus when they came to you? What do you think is the reason for that kind of disconnect there?
Ben Gioia: Yeah, thank you. That’s a great question, and I think it’s a few things, different people, but the things that I see most often is because somebody put up a website a long time ago, didn’t update it as their thinking and perspective changed. For some people, it’s that putting themselves, putting their face out in the world, that there’s still some hesitation around putting themselves out there, bringing their best and most badass self, whatever that looks like to them, out front. Because there’s so much messaging, I think, that so many of us were raised with, around, “Be quiet. Don’t make too much noise. Behave. Do things like everybody else is doing,” or even the worst kind of messaging of like, “Oh, you won’t be able to do that because you don’t have the looks, the skills, the grades,” all of that kind of stuff. I think there’s so much embedded learning probably from when we were about 3, 3 to 5, that gets stuck in there. Then the other part of it, too, I think, is people spend so much time looking at what other people are doing, which is important, of course.
You want to see who else is in your market and outside of your market to have a comparison, but at the end of the day, you have to be yourself and you have to really put yourself and your best foot forward. I think the last part of it, and this comes up with some people, is that they’re not super clear on their purpose, on their core purpose, and then when they’re bringing that, or attempting to bring that out through their business and what they’re offering, then messaging is a little behind because they’re not totally aligned internally.
Robert Plank: I mean, that makes a lot of sense. What I’m hearing a lot of what you mention is, when you’re looking at anyone’s business, it sounds almost like the things you’re looking for are like the emotional hot buttons, and a lot of people are missing the emotion in their websites, it sounds like.
Ben Gioia: Absolutely, yeah. Yeah, that’s true. They’re not speaking to the experience of their ideal client or their audience. Right? I mean, it’s so funny, because in a lot of ways it’s like marketing and communications 101. Communicate to people in and around the things that they care deeply about, and show them that you have something for them in that context, a solution, a next step, whatever the case may be, and a lot of people end up talking about themselves, like, “I can do this. My product does this,” but it’s not customer, client or prospect-focused.
Robert Plank: It’s not focused on, “What’s in it for me?” Right?
Ben Gioia: Exactly. Exactly. Thank you, yeah.
Robert Plank: Would you say that if you were to look at, or think back about, the different clients and people you’ve worked with, is there a huge number 1 mistake, and would you say like maybe, is that the mistake that people are talking about themselves and not their clients, or is there an even bigger mistake, even bigger common thread you’re seeing with all these people that you help out?
Ben Gioia: Yeah, yeah. Great question. I think a huge, huge one is talking too much about themselves, and another one, huge one, is not talking enough about themselves. The reason why I say that is because one of big things I teach is this idea of story, storytelling. I mean, storytelling is the oldest … It’s as old as human history. Before we had any kind of written communication, before people were drawing on walls and caves, they were telling each other stories. It was oral tradition, and that was the way to cultivate all that stuff around trust and connection to community, connection to tribe, and to safety, right? To have that circle be safe, and a lot of people today, they don’t go enough into their story, right? They might talk a little bit about it, “I was CEO of such-and-such a company,” but they don’t actually say, okay, what did they do there? Not just the actions did they take, but what results did they bring, who did they bring it for, how did that create a transformation for the organization for an entire population of people? Whatever the case may be, right?
There’s this funny balance of, yeah, absolutely you have to talk about your customer, their experience, etc., and, says me, and this is, I’ve proven this with a whole bunch of clients now, you have to talk about yourself, tell your story, and ask people to tell you stories. Right? Like you want to create empathy, and empathy that’s going in both directions. Right? You want to see the world through this other person’s eyes, and you want to give this other person the opportunity to see the world through your eyes.
Robert Plank: I mean, that sounds like some pretty interesting stuff there.
Ben Gioia: Yeah.
Robert Plank: I mean, with all this … I mean, all these little things I think about here and there is, there … I don’t know, is there something kind of interesting you’ve been working on lately? I don’t mean necessarily in terms of like, I know like you mentioned that, you had your new opportunities, like published stuff to different audiences, but just as far as like some kind of marketing technique or tool or just something like that. What’s just the latest kind of cutting-edge thing you’ve been playing around with?
Ben Gioia: That’s a great question. Yeah, gosh, it’s … One really interesting thing, and this is circumstantial, is getting ready to do a talk and actually a training. This training is going to be with an international audience, most of whom don’t speak English, so I’m actually doing it with a translator. This is a really, really interesting exercise for me, because it’s, how do I get super ultra crystal clear in everything that I’m saying, and chunk it down into really, really discreet packages of ideas, so I can say something, say a few sentences, pause, and allow the translator to understand what I say, translate it in her head, and then say it out to the audience in a way that they understand. Right? I’m looking at my language being really, really spare with the things that I’m saying, taking out colloquialisms, taking out jokes, all of those kinds of things. It’s an interesting exercise in this really crystal clear communication, and it’s also a really interesting exercise in being a presenter in this situation.
How do I maintain that energy, that high level of engaged energy in myself, when I have to pause and wait for the person to translate? Right? I have to be like, “Ya-ta-ta-ta-ta-ta-ta,” and then wait and hold that energy in myself, so the next thing I say is, “Ya-ta-ta-ta-ta.”
Robert Plank: Interesting.
Ben Gioia: Yeah.
Robert Plank: I mean, yeah, it seems like kind of like a new adventure to kind of push you outside your comfort zone, because like you said, you need to kind of strip a lot away and use simple language, but also seem smart and have something good to say, but then the rhythm and the pacing’s going to be weird, but then maybe you can use that to your advantage to kind of let things land, or pause to think, I guess.
Ben Gioia: Yeah, and thank you for saying that. It’s interesting, too, because the audience is a whole bunch of super, super successful business people, six-figure kind of earners. This is not an audience of beginners. These are people who have been doing their thing for a whole bunch of years now, so there’s that added dimension, for me, of, “Wow, I have to make this potent and insightful,” and all of that stuff, and do all the things that I just mentioned before about keeping it super clear and spare.
Robert Plank: Right. I mean, yeah, sounds like a lot of stuff to kind of keep straight in your head, but once you figure it out, sounds like a lot of fun.
Ben Gioia: Yeah. I think so. I’m really, really, really looking forward to it.
Robert Plank: Well, cool. If anyone wants to know about you, Ben, no matter what language they speak, what country they’re in, if they’re newbies, they’re advanced, where should they go to find out about you and your stuff that you sell, and your books, and everything like that?
Ben Gioia: Thank you, thank you. Yeah, so my website is influencewithaheart.com. Basically all the stuff is there, and you can also find my books on Amazon. Again, the beauty of Amazon is that it’s also worldwide. I have 2 books now, Influence With A Heart, which is the new one, and the first one, which was the bestseller Marketing With A Heart, as well. I’d be delighted for anybody who’s listening to this podcast to come check out my stuff. I think you’ll get a whole lot out of it, and it’ll really serve you and your business in a great way.
Robert Plank: Awesome. I think so too. That’s Ben Gioia, influencewithaheart.com. Thanks for stopping by the show.
Ben Gioia: Thank you so much, Robert, and appreciate all the things you do. Like I said, the audience doesn’t know this, but you and I met several years ago, and I really learned a ton of things from you back then, and was really inspired by the way you do your things, so thank you so much. It’s nice to come full circle and be on your show.
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