185: The Book Activation Method: Overcome the Fear of Publishing and Create the Perfect Book to Boost Your Business with Deborah Ager

Robert Plank 0:00 Robert plank Show Episode 185, the book activation method overcome the fear of publishing and create the perfect book to boost your business with Deborah Hager. Hey, everyone, and welcome back to the Robert plank show. Our guest today is Deborah agar. And she's going to be talking to us about making some books and Deborah founded radiant Media Labs and the book activation method workshop to help experts turn their expertise into books so they can gain more visibility speaking engagements and clients while spreading their good ideas. So Deborah, welcome to the show.

Unknown Speaker 0:35 Hi, thanks so much for having me. It's wonderful to be here.

Robert Plank 0:37 It's wonderful to have you here. And so, so yeah, so So tell me a little bit about yourself. And about this whole, the book activation method thing you have,

Speaker 2 0:46 oh, sure thing, I founded radiant Media Labs and the book activation method. As a blend of my, my skills. Um, I have a marketing background. And I also have a writing background. And I realized that there were a lot of speakers who could benefit from having a book. And I realized that a book would help a lot of people propel their business forward. And so I sort of put my skills together with what people needed, and formed this workshop for them, so that they could create their books.

Robert Plank 1:14 Cool, Anna? And so what kind of skills are we talking about? Exactly?

Unknown Speaker 1:17 Well, I have a I mean, my skills. Yeah, you

Robert Plank 1:20 said you, you put some skills together to sort of make this business a whole complete thing.

Speaker 2 1:26 Exactly. So I have a, I have a long career in digital marketing and online marketing. I've worked for a speaker for professional speaker and I used his book to help him sell lots and lots of speaking engagements. So that's where I first started to see how the power of a published book could really help move business forward and get more revenue. And even more importantly, help more people who need what it is that you as a business owner offer. So I started to see the power of that probably back in 2007 2008. And then Flash forward to today, a few people approached me about writing their books, and then I realized I would love to help them and get their good messages out to more people. So it's really, um, I think what I really love about it is helping people with good ideas, spread their ideas, and get that good message out to a wider range of people.

Robert Plank 2:17 And so I mean, sort of along those lines, I mean, with these clients that you work with, I mean, where do you see them being stuck the most?

Speaker 2 2:25 A lot of people have fear around getting their idea out there. I'm not sure anyone who's listening to this, who started a business already may have felt fear around starting that business, I think it's pretty common. And I think that fear comes up when we're starting any new project, or, or even doubt. And, you know, it's that part of our brain that saying you can't do it, you can't do it, and who are you to think you're the person to talk about this topic. So I do have a lot of conversations with people about those particular challenges and how to get around them.

Robert Plank 2:57 Okay, and I mean, could you sort of unpack an example of that, like someone who, who had that fear and had that doubt, and was kind of stuck? And then you worked your magic, and you got them past it?

Speaker 2 3:07 Yeah. And I like to think that I'm the one working on the magic, but really, it's each individual person, because we have to conquer our own fear. And, and what I like to think of it as is we're not really finding our fear, and we're not trying to get rid of it. The fear is actually, I would rather embrace it, because it's going to show up no matter what. And we're never going to have that perfect life where we have absolutely no fear whatsoever. So the big question, I think, is, how can we embrace that fear and use it to move forward despite feeling scared or despite feeling fear or doubt. And I think what's really important is to take small actions and take small actions every day. So in my workshop, you know, I take people through the whole process of organizing their book and coming up with the idea, and then they leave with words already written toward the book. And I think that just even starting the book is so scary to people, but having that already done, weeps them over that, that potential challenge. And then when it comes to individual fears, when I talk with people individually about what they are experiencing, I think it's really helpful when people know, I think probably 99.9% of people have similar feelings. And I think it's really helpful to other people to know that you are going to have this fear and then you can just sort of kick it to the side and say, or give it some ice cream, keep it busy somehow and then just keep on moving with what you want to be doing in your life.

Robert Plank 4:35 That makes a lot of sense. So yeah, because I mean it's it's like if you the more you fight that fear, the more the more attention you give to it, the harder is going to be to overcome it. And so So you said that you do these workshops and and people go there and people kind of interact with with others who are in a similar situation with them. And so they so like what do they go home with? Are you saying like, do they do the outline the whole book? Do they have a couple of pages written like what what are you Getting them past? Exactly.

Speaker 2 5:02 Yeah. So in the group, in the group workshop, we work on outlining people's books. And so it starts, it goes through my whole process. First we talk about the market, what market they're trying to reach and what their idea is. In general, I usually work with people, I don't think a book is what someone should be doing when they're first starting out in business, I think that's really important. So I'm working with people who've been in business for a while. And they already have a lot of knowledge. So they have ideas, but they might need help narrowing down the ideas or organizing them. So the first step focuses on mastering your market and your idea. And I have a process that I go through with people where they identify their perfect book buyer, they gain clarity on what they're trying to do with their book. And then I like to talk with them. The second step is I talked with them about aligning with their mission, because writing a book is challenging and difficult. And if you don't know why you're doing it, then you may not continue. And so I think it's really important to understand how the book is going to help you with your business. will it provide revenue? In the form of book sales? will it provide revenue in the form of speaking engagements? You know, are you aiming? How do you want to release it? Do you want to go through a traditional publisher or through Amazon? There's benefits and downsides to both? And then? Or do you want to use your book to gain more authority and credibility? Or is it all of those things? So I think getting more clear about it really helps people understand why they're going to do all this work. That makes

Robert Plank 6:32 sense, because that way, that way, they're not just doing the book for the heck of it. Right?

Speaker 2 6:35 Exactly, exactly. I really look at the words in the book and the book itself as a foundation for business. And that doesn't mean that every business has to have a book. But if one is going to have a book, I look at it as something that's helping to support the business. Right?

Robert Plank 6:51 And so when when you work with people, and you're figuring out, you know, like the, what the market wants, and what you know, their mission is, and all these things like, Do you ever come across people getting maybe like a little too bogged down, or a little too much of like, looking at all the work they have ahead of them and kind of quitting before they start? Do you ever see that?

Speaker 2 7:10 Sometimes, yes, I think people get so overwhelmed. And a lot of times when we're experts around our own topic, it's hard for us to see it with fresh eyes. And I think that this process helps people see their own material with fresh eyes. And also in the group format. It's great, because you get comments from not only me, but from other people. And I think that I mean, even if you don't take a class, I mean, you can get these from your friends and colleagues. But I think what's really nice is having that outside brain looking at your work and asking you questions that might be so obvious to you that you wouldn't think, oh, this, this might be confusing to people, or I should explain more about, you know, X, Y, or Z. And I think the process that I put together helps get people past feeling bogged down, because we're going through a step by step process to get those ideas out of their head from brain to the page. So I think that that helps.

Robert Plank 8:03 Yeah, I mean, that makes a lot of sense. Because they're people aren't just making something up as you're going along. They're using your system that other people have used. So they have more confidence in that and everyone else in that group is in the process of using that system. And so when we're talking about people making a book, I mean, like, what, what sort of book are we talking about? Are we talking like a, like a thin book, like a 200 page book, and we sing this song that it's gonna take like a year or a month? Like what's, what's the scope of these sorts of things?

Speaker 2 8:31 Yeah, that's a great question. It really depends. And there's some people who want to do smaller books, I'd say somewhere around 50 to 120 pages is usually how long the books that I work on are. It doesn't mean that someone couldn't do a longer one. But I think that the right number of pages with equal would really depend upon, are you able to say what you need to say, and in that amount of space? So you know, if it needs to be 60 pages and 60 pages is the answer. And I think that, you know, mapping out the ideas and mining the material that you have in existence on your blog, and in podcasts in any kind of speaking engagements, someone's given being able to go through all that material and figure out what's there and what can be included, will really help determine how long the book is. And as for how long it takes? That's also it's a bit of a tricky question, because it really depends, is it going to be someone's number one priority? Or are they working on that a little bit along with another project. So it could take you know, for someone who's going to put everything else aside, they could write a short book of 50 pages or so probably in three months, that would be really, that would be really fast, and that would be a first draft as well. So there might still be some editing that needs to happen after that point. And then someone who I'm someone who needs a bit more time maybe more like six months, but still would have to be a fairly high priority, it can't be, you know, the fifth project that the persons working on. So I think that that's important is when someone decides to write a book, it's just making sure that you're putting time in your schedule for it. And it will make sense to put time in your schedule for it, if you understand how it's helping your business,

Robert Plank 10:18 right? I mean, yeah, that makes a lot of sense. And it sounds like it all kind of kind of connects together. And so and so when, when someone's in this sort of situation, like if they're, you know, making and maybe it's like their, their first their second book, and maybe it's the number two or three priority. And so it might take three to six months. I mean, do you see anyone people having any sort of difficulty, as they're approaching the end of the book, I'd like to sort of like they've been they've been working at this for however many months, and now that they're near the finish line, do you ever see anyone either, like slow down, or burnout or anything like that?

Speaker 2 10:48 Oh, yeah, it's, um, it's terrifying, and things go wrong. Because if you're trying to run a company, you, you may have arranged to have other people take over some of your duties for you. But then maybe something happens, and they really need you to come in, or maybe you know, you catch a cold or something that slows you down. So there's always unexpected, unexpected things that occur. And then also, usually, towards the end of writing a book, there's some kind of freakout period where you realize your words are going to be out there for other people to read, and even judge, and that's really scary to people. But what I do is, I invite people to look back at all the work they've done so far. And since I work with people who are experts and have had a business for a little while, they've already done a lot of so called testing, even if they didn't think of it as testing, but they've given speeches, that or they've taught workshops, or they've created products, or they had a website. And so through all the ways they've gotten their business out there before, they've been getting feedback from people, you know, whether or maybe they had an email, newsletter list, all those different ways you've gathered people to you. And those people have been giving you responses in the form of buying things in the form of testimonials in the form of emailing you and saying your product was really great. So you already know that the work is good, by the time you're putting your book together, it's just a matter of getting over that last hump of oh my gosh, it's gonna be out there. But then I think it's important to remember all those other pieces of my business I got out there were well received. So chances are that my book will also be well received.

Robert Plank 12:18 And I like that and and it sounds to me like so people have been so like the people that you work with, they've been business owners this whole time, maybe they've been, you know, podcasting, or more, like you said, speaking or blogging, and so they've already kind of been fleshing out their their greatest hits for the last few years and getting feedback on it and like figuring out the way to, you know, make it sound good and make sense and be catchy and be simple. So it sounds like it whether people realize it or not, they've already been getting feedback on the material that will be in their book.

Unknown Speaker 12:49 Exactly, yeah.

Robert Plank 12:51 And so um, so do you have any any more steps with this system that you're willing to share, like number one was to master their market and the right to number two was aligned with their own mission? What are the other steps?

Speaker 2 13:04 Sure, yeah. Number three is mining your material. So what I find is because I do work with people who know their material pretty well, they do have a lot of blog posts and presentations. And so what I do is I help them go through their materials and figure out what can be included in their book. So we start listing out overall themes and ideas. And what this what this is helping us do is get ready for the later step where we're going to start mapping all of that. So that's step three minor material, step four is marking out the tools. So I had a client recently who really had a challenge with finding the time to write. So we came up with some really creative ways, despite her hectic schedule, to help her carve out time and space to write. I consider time and space to be a tool, then there are also other tools that might help like calendars or ways to collect information. So Evernote can be really handy. If there's research involved. There's there's tools that you can use to help you gather the latest research for your book. And then the fifth step is map your mind. So that's where we sit down and we make a we make a mind map. And you can google you know, anyone who's not familiar with that method of brainstorming can Google and see what a mind map looks like? There's also some online mind mapping tools, I always ask the people I'm working with to draw them. Because I think, scientifically, it's better to have that connection between your hand actually doing the writing and your brain, rather than just typing something into a system. So I really invite people to get really messy and map out their ideas in a mind map. And what's really cool about that in high school, we're often taught how to outline and that kind of goes from top to bottom. But What's lovely about the mind map is that you can kind of you can go in any direction, you cross out things, move things around. I just went through the process with the client or I went through this process with a client and a one on one session about a week ago. And we were doing that we were moving things around. We used to post it notes for ideas, we weren't sure where they would go. And then we, you know, move those around to so we, you know, we use different color markers, it was really all about just getting out of our, you know, it doesn't have to look perfect. And just being creative with it. And then step number six is moving from brain to book. So that's where that's where we start to figure out what the to do list looks like. And you asked about overwhelm and getting bogged down. So breaking that to do list into doable chunks is something that we work on. And then setting a word count goal or a time goal, if that's what works best. And then using the schedule that we put together during the mark your tools phase, so that people are actually sitting down and writing on a schedule. Um, and I work with clients, sometimes they want to write it, sometimes they want to speak it. So that's another trick people can use is that you can record yourself and your ideas, and then get the transcripts made and sent to you. And then you can edit those ideas into a book format. So it's kind of a really handy way to get the words out in a way that doesn't feel like writing, but it kind of is it's like secret writing. And then the last step is marketing. So then I work with people to use the book in their business so that they can market themselves. And I've done this myself, because I've written are put together, I have three of my own books, I've either co edited or written and for all of those, I did a lot of marketing for them. And that helped me get speaking engagements and interviews and you know, guest blog posting opportunities that I would not have gotten otherwise.

Robert Plank 16:32 Awesome. And it sounds like as you're explaining this whole system, it sounds like that every step of the way, there probably like five or 10 ways people could go about it, right? Like there's different ways people could go about, for example, use these different kinds of tools or map in this certain way, or, you know, have their schedule based on the word count, or based on the minutes. And so what's interesting about about your process here is that there is it's like the same steps with everyone, but then within those steps, depending on the person's, you know, personality and how, what skills they have, and if they're technically literate may below us more computer stuff versus not. And so it sounds like it's, it's the same steps for everybody. But what you do is you figure out what works best as far as someone's personality or someone's work habits to, to kind of fit their personality into the steps.

Speaker 2 17:22 Exactly, yes, um, you hit the nail right on the head there. And one of my clients just sent me a testimonial. And so one of the reasons I love working with you is because you don't try to hammer me into some cookie cutter, factory made book process. Instead, you know, I've worked with her in a very tailored way, tailored to what you know what she can accommodate your schedule and what she wants to do. And I do try to do that, because I feel like it is a creative process. And each, each expert will each expert author will approach that in a different way. And I like to make that comfortable for people.

Robert Plank 17:55 Cool. And so sort of along those lines, like do you have do you have a case study for us, like either with one of your clients are with you just as far as you know, if, if you started with just a not even an idea, or went to a mess of ideas, and then sort of sort of refined it, you have a cool story like that where you went from just an idea and then finished with the book.

Speaker 2 18:16 Sure, yeah, for for one of my clients, the book was on digital marketing. And we, we came up with an outline together and discussed it, and I provided some feedback on that. I think in that case, I think he had a bit of an outline already made by the time it came to me if I recall correctly, it was a while ago. But um, but anyway, so we, we put that together. And he had some presentations for some of the sections he wanted to talk about. And then he had some case studies stories that he wanted to share about using his process with clients. So we recorded a lot of that. And then I took those recordings, and I hammered them into shape, kind of chiseled, you know, his great ideas and so on, and to shape and then form them into chapters. And then we worked from there to turn it into a book. And then at one point, you know, he took all the words and then he he took what I did, and, you know, made some modifications and then added, you know, work with a designer to add graphics to it. And then we ended up with a book. So it's pretty exciting. And he uses it for his speaking engagements now. So he's got that there for his prospects and current customers to purchase. So that he can so he can get the word out about what he does. And I think what's really powerful about it is that when you share stories, if you can share case studies, people can feel aligned with that as opposed to feeling like they're being sold to so instead of standing up on stage and just trying to sell to people, you know, he's sharing stories, and then they're reading a book, and his particular audience can say, Oh, this is how we did that for that company. Maybe you can do that for us and then they can get they get curious about it and then they can contact him to get more information.

Robert Plank 19:57 Right and even just like as far The way that I like learn and listen to stuff, like I always appreciate, like, I like knowing like the the facts or the steps. And then I like to go into, like those steps and applied it. And it's sort of like a story as you said, and then, but then, you know, if someone's just doing a quick talk or a quick blog post or something or a guest blog posts, then there's not necessarily the time to, to get into stuff like that. And so that's, that sounds like a pretty cool tool for everyone to have.

Unknown Speaker 20:27 Thank you. Thanks.

Robert Plank 20:28 And so, um, so sort of, as we're talking about, um, so it sounds like, you know, a lot of people need a book, especially to open up these doors, and they get these other opportunities that can you tell us about where people can find you and about your, your workshops and your products and stuff like that?

Speaker 2 20:45 Sure, people can find out more about my work at the book activation method.com and also radiant media labs.com. Cool, so go ahead. Yeah, oh, sorry. It the book activation method, comm website, I have a three step cheat sheet to help people get clear about their perfect buyer. So that's available for people just sign up, and then it gets sent to them. And a lot of I know a lot of people have written to me and said they really found it useful to help them get clear about what they wanted to do with their book.

Robert Plank 21:18 Oh, cool. And so um, so if someone's listening to this podcast ever, and and, you know, they they've liked what they've heard so far about, you know, what a book can give them and, and the different obstacles that they can overcome. But then they're hearing about this cheat sheet. And they're saying, I don't know, like, maybe I'll maybe I'll delay a book a couple of months or a couple years. Are they sad? And I'll get to that later. I mean, will you tell someone who's sort of hesitating? And what would you tell them to? To have them, you know, drop everything I'm doing right now and go and run and grab that cheat sheet?

Speaker 2 21:48 Yeah, that's a great question I had, I had someone who became a client who said, I don't know if I can work on this book. And I'm gonna put it off. And I said, Well, let me just ask you one question, because I'm not gonna force anyone to write a book. I just said, what will what will be the cost to the people you serve? By not reading your ideas? And you know, she helps people solve a particular problem. And I think that that question is a really good one to ask if you as a business owner, can help our helping people solve problems, then if you don't get your message out there through a book or other methods? What is it? What is it costing the people that you serve? You know, how could you you started a business so you can help people? So? So that's just something to think about?

Robert Plank 22:35 Yeah. And I think that's a really good answer. And this really good way of thinking about is, is, you know, a lot of people think about, well, what's the cost of not doing this, but you're, you're taking it one step further and saying, Well, there's a cost, not only to you, but to all these people that aren't going to be able to find you and people that aren't going to be able to solve the problem that your book will solve once you finish it, and market it and publish it and all that good stuff.

Speaker 2 22:59 Right, right. And then you brought up the notion, you brought up the idea of cost, which I think is important. So I think it's also important to look at the ROI of the book, you know, the the, I have different offerings at different price points, for instance, but for anyone who's thinking about writing a book, it's also important to look at that just like any other thing you would look at for your business. How much does it cost? And then what will that get me back? You know, I have put $1 in how many dollars am I going to get out. So if you're a speaker, and that's something that you really want to be working on, and you've spoken before, then how many speaking engagements do you need to pay back the cost of that book, and sometimes it's really not that many, it's one speaking engagement that you would not have gotten otherwise. And you've just, you've just paid back your investment on the book. So just something to think about too. So that's why I think it works for it works. A book is great for certain kinds of business structures. And it might not be great for other kinds of business structures. It's a very personal business decision.

Robert Plank 23:57 But I like that way of how you put it is if someone is for example, looking to put out a book and use it to get speaking gigs. I mean, if it only gets them you know, one or two or three in the next year, then that's then now the cost of the book has come back, multiplied and stuff like that. And so, so, so awesome. So um, so the websites are radiant media labs.com And then to grab that cheat sheet that is book activation. method.com is that correct? That's correct. Awesome. So I mean, I really enjoyed our conversation today, Deborah, and I liked everything he had to say about making a book and you know, making the book that is done the right way, but it's also fun and fast and, and, and all that and all that cool stuff. And so I really appreciate you coming on and thanks for sharing what you have to share with us today about making a book.

Unknown Speaker 24:44 Thanks for having me and thanks to everyone for listening.

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