438: Be of Service and Value to Others: How to Network, Build Loyalty, Develop Relationships, and Express Gratitude with Meredith Bell

Robert Plank 0:00 Marketer of the day number 438, Be of service and value to others. How to network, build loyalty, develop relationships and express gratitude with Meredith Bell.

Robert Plank 0:14 Hey

Robert Plank 0:14 everyone, and thanks for listening. We're talking right now with Meredith bell. And Meredith has been an entrepreneur since 1982 and she's an expert in helping companies develop the people side of their business. Meredith is the co founder and president of performance support systems, which is a global software company based in Virginia. Their products are used by leadership coaches and consultants as well as internal learning and development professionals to help managers become more effective leaders. And one of Meredith's strengths is building strong relationships. And he she and her business partners have worked together for 25 years, and many of their clients and resellers have done business with them for 20 years. And she understands what's required to build the loyalty and commitment that lead to repeat business and referrals. And she takes pride in getting feedback like this, which is from a reseller who's worked with their companies since 1994 and they said performance support systems is the epitome of the client centered, high integrity, high support company with world class products you could look for a lifetime and not find its equal. So a lot of stuff to throw in there. But hey, Meredith, how are things?

Speaker 1 1:16 Oh, just great. Thank you so much, Robert. It's a pleasure to be with you today.

Robert Plank 1:21 It's a pleasure to be talking with you. So what has you fired up these days? What's on your mind?

Speaker 1 1:27 You know, the big thing that we are focused on is introducing our products to organizations that includes business owners like your audience, as well as leaders in larger companies. Because, you know, so often people leave companies because of their boss, and so we're out to provide tools that help these leaders become more effective in the way they communicate, interact, inspire people to do their best work. So I love doing that, and I've been doing that for many years, but I never get tired of it, because every day you see in the news more people who need you know this kind of training and understanding about what's required to get the best out of people.

Robert Plank 2:15 So just to kind of tell me, understand and get on the same page as you as far as these leaders that aren't getting the best out of people, what usually happens? What is this problem that seems to be popping up everywhere?

Speaker 1 2:29 Well, you know, a huge piece is simply not listening or not clearly conveying what they want and need from the person. And so this, this, you know, our school systems are really lacking in teaching some of the skills that people need to be effective, not just at work, but when they are supervising and managing and trying to lead other people. So they think sometimes they're being clear when they're not. They often avoid conflict so they don't have to deal with the uncomfortable, you know, aspects of that. They don't know how to help people really learn from when they make a mistake. So, you know, at the extreme, you can have someone that's very passive aggressive. They say nothing, and then they blow up at times when people don't do what they think they will do, and a key aspect is simply not being clear about what they are looking to have happen with that other person. So it's a combination of things, but I think a lot of it deals with, you know, not being comfortable with how to communicate effectively with other people and really understand, you know, everybody else is a human being who has needs and wants to and trying to approach them in ways that don't facilitate a positive response from them, I guess. So what we're trying to do is help them learn how to listen better, how to give positive feedback more often, so people you know feel appreciated, how to give constructive feedback in a way that doesn't put the other person on the defense. And so, because the whole goal, of course, is we want to listen to each other and understand each other. And so it's learning how to interact with people that help them feel safe and at ease and willing to be honest, so you can have a real dialog,

Robert Plank 4:43 and that's cool, and that's a lot to think about, even as we're just getting started here, because I can definitely, I mean, as you were explaining all that, what came to mind was the boss from that movie Office Space. Did you see that one?

Speaker 1 4:55 Yes,

Robert Plank 4:56 and that nerdy boss just exactly what you were describing, right? Like. Kind of just in his own world, and not really listening and not really helping a problem to be corrected. And and I can definitely relate to that on like, the the giving in and the receiving end, right in and in like, because sometimes I outsource, and I'm trying to get better at at doing more outsourcing. And sometimes I'll say, well, I need this stuff done, I'll be real quick about it. And I'm like, of course it makes sense for me to put that in one sentence and like, just, just do this. Just set up this website, just make this web page. And then when, when what they see, they misinterpret it, because the instructions aren't clear. And then they think that they're doing what I'm asking, but then what comes back is what they thought was what I'm asking, but then I look at it as if, oh, they weren't listening, or they, they, you know, did the opposite of what I was doing, and what I what I should have done, and what I'm getting better at is having those more detailed instructions. And then he also mentioned in there, so there's like the instruction side of things, and there's also like the kind of the the encouragement, emotional support side of things, where we might be too harsh or too mean and not realize it. And then also, you mentioned in there that sometimes it helps just to, like, do a little encouragement or a little compliment that might seem kind of unnecessary, or just a little, a tiny little bit of effort for us, and why bother? But then for to be on the receiving end of that seems like that can make quite a difference. So is that on the right track, any of that stuff?

Speaker 1 6:25 Well, it is. And just to give you a quick example, are you familiar with Bill Glaser? He used to be the president of G K i c

Robert Plank 6:33 laser,

Robert Plank 6:34 Canada, yeah,

Speaker 1 6:35 yeah. I was a member of that for a number of years, and I would make a point of going up to him during the conferences to give him positive feedback, there was always something, you know, I was especially appreciating about the conference and having run live events myself, I know how easy it is for people to complain, you know, about whatever, but I'll never forget this one time that I went up To him, we had gotten to know each other, and I don't even remember now what I was telling him that I appreciated about it. And he said, Meredith, would you call me every day and tell me nice things like this? And I'm sharing that because even people that we perceive as being highly successful still need affirming. You know, it's a basic human need and to have someone express genuine appreciation about something that we've done. I can't even you've probably been on the receiving end of it yourself. And you know how much that means when someone takes the time to let you know, hey, that was really important to me, or that really meant a lot. We just, there's so many opportunities for that in our daily lives,

Robert Plank 7:51 for sure. Yeah. And what that makes me think of is, well, first of all, like, that's a great takeaway right there. Like, in any kind of situation, right if someone, if we're on a webinar. Someone does a great job. We can shoot a message saying, hey, I really like that. Here's what I liked about it. If we see someone has something great on the website, I mean, this day and age, everyone's accessible. We can do a quick Facebook Messenger and I was just at an event yesterday, and, like, I mean, that would have been a really easy thing to do because, like, I did have a lot of enjoyment, but a lot of us don't, don't express that. And, like, I too have also run into live events, and it always kind of sucks, like I felt like a school teacher sometimes, because, like, I'd say stuff or and then people would be kind of like asleep at the wheel later on. So like that. Those are, those are some really great takeaways right there. And so, so, so you said that we have multiple ways that we can kind of do this technique. So like, what are some other ways that maybe we haven't thought of that we can give thanks to some of these people?

Speaker 1 8:51 Well, handwritten notes are amazingly effective. They you stand out because hardly anybody does that anymore. So if someone has done something thoughtful for you, just to, you know, send out a note means a lot. The other thing I do a lot on social media is, and I'm on LinkedIn, Facebook and Twitter, is, if I've had a really good conversation someone with someone you know, on the phone or over zoom or Skype, I will sometimes, you know, just post an update saying had a great conversation with this person and, you know, he or she is setting the world on fire with such and such, whatever it is they're working on, to give them a plug. You know, it takes me just a few minutes to put something like that together, but that does a lot. You know, I'm all about building relationships and so to kind of get it into a habit, what could I do to, you know, highlight someone or, you know, help promote something that they have done. There's just so many opportunities on social media now. But I would say, Do not neglect the, you know, handwritten note. The other thing I've done is some video recordings on Zoom where I've interviewed authors of some books that I've really enjoyed, to give them some exposure, and then they can, you know, do whatever they would like with the video afterwards, and I'll continue to promote it. So, you know, people could start with thinking of who are some, you know, heroes that they have, and it might be people they wouldn't necessarily have felt courageous enough to approach in the past. But if there's some way that they think of that they could help that person who doesn't want another person to be out there, you know, promoting them and speaking positively about them.

Robert Plank 10:50 I love that, and I love the idea of reaching out to these authors, that these heroes, but authors in particular, and interviewing them, and I want to know about the story. So what book was this, and what author did you reach out to and like, I mean, how did, how did that sort of unfold for you?

Speaker 1 11:07 Well, a couple of times, it was people that I had gotten introduced to through someone else, like Lolly Daskal, who's, you know, a top executive coach for leaders in companies, and she had a new book coming out and and she's got like a million followers on on Twitter. I said, Well, Lolly, would you like to be interviewed? She said, Oh, I would love that. So we did that, and it went really well. But another one I have really enjoyed is Mark Goulston, G, o, u, l, s, t o n, he wrote a book called Just listen. And he has another one about, you know, the people who drive you crazy. It's called talking to crazy. And so he and I, I've been a fan of his for years because I loved just listen. It's my favorite book on, you know, interpersonal skills. And he and I were both guests at separate times on this one podcast, and the host offered to me to introduce me to mark. And I said, Oh, I would love that. So I've actually done two interviews with Mark, because we just had such a blast. And you know, he's such a genuine person, but there's any number of people I would do even more. It's just that, you know, time prevents me from doing as many as I would like to, because I'm an avid reader. But people just need to think about, you know, who is someone whose book they've appreciated, maybe they even wrote a review for it on Amazon. But I'll tell you, authors you know, have put their heart and soul into writing their books most of the time. So anyone who's willing to give them some additional exposure, it's usually, you know, a welcome opportunity for them. And

Robert Plank 12:55 that's a really good way of looking at it, because I know that even up until a couple of years ago, whenever there was an author who had a book out there, I thought, Oh, they're too big for me. I can't really like reach out and talk to them, but I've had Lolly desk along the show a few months ago, and she was super great. So one thing I'm curious about with that is, so if we read a book and we like the book, I mean, we've left a review, and we reach out to the author. Is there such a thing as, like, someone who's too big for us, too high profile, or even if someone's like, super famous? Do you think is it worth reaching out anyway?

Speaker 1 13:33 Absolutely. You know our hesitation is, I often do to the stories we tell ourselves, that person's too big. Well, it's not true. It's just stuff we tell ourselves, and the worst that can happen is they say, No, I'm too busy. My schedule won't allow but you know, I often start by connecting with someone on LinkedIn, if I'm not already connected with them, and I'll write them a personal note to request the connection and say, I just finished your book, such and such and loved it. Would like to be connected with you. And sometimes I'll say, you know, I have podcast hosts who might want to interview you. And of course, if they're looking for greater visibility, it's always looking at, what can I do for them? I think that's an important point when when you're trying to approach anyone, but especially the people that are, what you might call celebrity status. They're so used to people asking, asking, asking for things. But if you approach them instead by saying, here's what I'd like to do for you, they're all ears.

Robert Plank 14:42 That's awesome. And so as far as you know, reaching out to people like I used to not, it sounds really bad to say, but I used to not value people as much as I do now, and I still value people, but like, I wasn't always looking I wasn't always thinking in that way that you just described there. As far as. Like helping people, like I wanted to help people in a general sense, but not to the extent of, if I read a book and I liked it, to reach out to the author and do what I can to get more exposure and and all that kind of fun stuff and so, so I've been better at that now. But when I kind of tell people about this news, I'm like, you know, I'm better at reaching out. And I get people on my podcast, I do interviews and help them out, the answer always seems to go to, or the question seems to always go to, well, how is that helping you? How is that making you money? And I know that it's like, it's not like it's taken all my time, but I know that I need to spend a certain percentage of the day kind of to grow the business in that way. But I never really have a good answer to those. I guess you'd call them naysayers, the people saying, like, well, how does that make you money? So what is your answer to those types of people?

Speaker 1 15:50 Oh, I love that question. You know, I think for because people ask me too. I've been on more than, you know, couple dozen podcasts. You know, how do you monetize that so it works on both sides of the microphone. And to me, the answer is, I want to be of service to others. And I guess I just have this ultimate faith that the more I give, the more comes back to me, some of these podcast hosts have become excellent friends and have introduced me to other people that have led to business. And I think that that is true for you. As a host, you're able to invite people to be on your podcast as a guest that you might not otherwise, you know, have a really good reason to approach but when you want to pick their brain so that you can provide value to your audience, then that's worth a lot. And I think the key thing on again, either side of the microphone is nurturing the relationship. So in your case, you know, I'll want to recommend other people as guests to you going forward. And I just think here's to me, the bottom line, one of my very favorite books is called, well, shoot, I just just went out of my head. It's about being, oh, the prosperous coach. And it's about people who you know are going into the profession of, you know, coaching. But the question in that book that really drives me is when I'm going to get into a conversation with someone you know, or even on this podcast, to ask myself, How can I serve this person so powerfully that they never forget our conversation for the rest of their life?

Robert Plank 17:51 That's kind of a tall order. There

Speaker 1 17:53 it is. But I'll tell you what it does for me. It's not like what it does is it shifts me from trying to make an impression, and what are they going to think of me to focusing on them, because the only way they're going to remember you is if you ask questions or or say some things for them, or offer ideas that that really resonate with them and touch on something. So for me, that means asking a lot of questions. When I get in an initial conversations with someone, the main talking that I'm doing is in the form of questions, well, tell me about this, and then how did that go? So that I'm learning about them. And my what I'm doing in my brain is kind of trying to think about, okay, what are some resources? What are some people that I know that could be helpful to this person? And so I'll just start sharing, you know, a book, or someone I want to introduce them to, so that it's not saying, Oh, well, Meredith is so great. It isn't that's not my goal. My goal is what could help this person at this particular point in time, and that's what I'm really focused on. And you know what that does? Robert, which is really interesting. You know, I'm not feeling uptight about, when am I going to have the chance to talk about our products, right? It's it's relaxed, because I know that I will have done what I needed to do if I served the person well. And what's interesting is, many times in the conversation, it'll turn around, they'll turn around and say, well, now I haven't heard much about you and what you do. I want to learn more about your products, because I might be able to use them in my business, or I might know someone so it it all works out. It's just that when your attitude is serving you know and focusing how to be helpful, it makes a huge difference in the response you get, because people can sense if you're kind of. Waiting for your turn to talk, and you're waiting to jump in to, you know, promote your stuff. It just feels really differently. And we're all kind of, I guess, on guard against people trying to sell us. And so when you come across and you genuinely are concerned about being of help to them. It makes a huge difference.

Robert Plank 20:26 I like that a lot in a number of ways. I mean, I mean, first of all, like, but there's something in there that you said, where about like? Instead of, instead of you trying to, trying to focus on what you're going to say or your chance to jump in, you focus on them. And not only does it turn things around and all that, but it first of all helps to overcome your own insecurities, your own butterflies in the stomach, because now it's about them, and then the way that you're describing that well, also there's the reciprocity factor in play, because you're giving, giving, giving, and they're kind of feeling a little obligated to return the favor, and that's, you know, obviously that's not the goal, but that's a nice little, little benefit there. And you're basically being like, like a problem solver, a troubleshooter, an entrepreneur, and like it just the way you're describing it. It sounds like doing this is a great way to stand out when everyone else is out there trying to see how they can get an angle or or waiting for their turn. You're just being this completely different person than they're used to. And so as you're describing this, I mean, we're starting to run short on time, but I'm sure that there are some sort of do's and don'ts here, because, like, I couldn't imagine some people like messing this up, or maybe being like, a little, like, too pushy or annoying. So do you have any do's and don'ts for anyone who's looking to reach out more and help people in this way?

Speaker 1 21:49 I would say, when you and I think about connecting with people you know on social media, and you've probably had this experience yourself, somebody requests to connect with you on LinkedIn, you accept. And the very next thing you see in your inbox there is a, you know, them describing their product and how it can help you. Yeah,

Robert Plank 22:10 a big long, like, pre written message about, like, oh, how can we work together? And, yeah, all the time. And I just delete that

Speaker 1 22:19 exactly. So again, every it's really all about Robert a way of being, a way of thinking so that you aren't, you know, psyching yourself up to be this way it becomes how you approach things. So the question you ask yourself is, you know, how can I be of help to this person. So when I connect with someone, you know, I just let them know I believe in building real relationships here. So, you know, tell me a little bit about your current focus in your work. In case I know of people or resources that might be helpful for you. And you know, some people answer some don't, but those that do, it often leads to a conversation on phone or zoom, and, you know, learning more about each other. And in some cases, it becomes friendships. In other cases, you know, it's nice referral business. In one case, with one guy, he's a fabulous JV partner now. And so I don't go in, and I think this is important so people don't, you know, get disappointed if they have this expectation. Well, I'm going to be this way. It's not a technique. That's why I'm saying. It's a way of being so that you go in with curiosity, genuine interest in learning about this other person and how you might be of help, and you're absolutely right. The reciprocity factor kicks in. If someone else is also, you know, more of a giving spirit than a taker, they're going to be really eager to help you back in some way. And so there's just been some wonderful surprises that have happened over time with taking that approach, I've never been disappointed. I'll say that about having taken that approach. I used to, you know, years ago, before I understood this so well, I used to get really anxious about calls, because it's like, okay, so when am I going to talk about this? I had tremendous pressure on myself, and the other person could sense it, but when they can tell you're just enjoying talking to them and learning about them. Here's the deal, Robert, most people don't have enough other people in their lives that show a genuine interest in who they are, what they're doing and what's important to them. So if you can get other people talking about that, I mean, you you can end up with friends for life, because they appreciate so much that you really cared about them,

Robert Plank 24:57 super duper cool and a lot. Things come to mind with all that, like, there's a there's that saying that, like, if you someone did some kind of analysis, and they found out that the average person out there has, point eight friends, the average person doesn't even have one friends, because we're all in and, you know, in the real world, in person, a lot of us are kind of disconnected, or the people in our lives, like our friends are kind of detached or not really supportive. So I love the way that you put that is that most people don't even have that supportive person. So if you're the person that can reach out, then you'll be even better than the people who are right there in their inner circle. And then as you were talking about how like your your attitude is better about it. Now, I can definitely relate to maybe having the wrong mindset about about this a few years ago, as far as reaching out, and I used to maybe I'd, I'd see someone out there, and I'd like, you know, send a message, and I'd reach out, or we'd have a phone call, and then if nothing happened from that, I'd get sort of bent out of shape. I'd get sort of offended and be like, Oh, well, I sent that person the message, they can't even be bothered to reply. But nowadays, I have a much better outlook on that, and I'm thinking, well, it's a numbers game. It's, you know, now that I need now I'm sort of trained to, like you said, be curious about someone else's business, about what someone else's problems are, if I have an idea or a tip or something. Now I kind of tend to put it out there, and I put out enough there where I'm not just sending out the one thing and hanging on to that and hoping for that, and not having that desperation, that kind of scarcity mindset you mentioned in there. I just kind of put some stuff out there, knowing that if I put enough out there, then number one, like, it makes me feel good, and it's, you know, help helping out others out on being a good person. And then if I put enough out there, then enough will come out. But it's just a number scheme. It's not going to be a one to one ratio. And so as we're sort of winding down here, do you have any tips on how to make this sort of thing a habit? Like you mentioned that it's not was, it's not a technique, it's as a state of being. So how do we get this in as our state of being like, do you recommend that we reach out to X number of people per day, or X number of minutes per day? Or what are your thoughts on, just kind of making this a built in automatic part of all of us?

Speaker 1 27:13 Well, I think that's great question, and I think that it can be a combination of things, and one of them is actually taking time throughout the day, at different points, to just stop and express gratitude about what you have in life and the good things that you have now and what's coming for you. Because I really think a state of gratitude helps put you in the right frame of mind for approaching other people. And I don't, I don't know that I would specify a minimum number of people, but, you know, here's the thing most of us know, the things that, as business owners, that we really need to do in order to grow our companies. And, you know, getting face to face or phone to phone with people who can say yes to what we offer is what it boils down to. It really is about relationships. So I think when people are imagining who might I, you know, approach, and how can I approach them, think about it, with the hat on that's asking, How can I be of value to this person? What would they need? Quick example, you know, Joe Polish,

Robert Plank 28:30 yeah,

Speaker 1 28:31 okay, Joe, I met one time there. By the way, there's a really interesting story about Bill Glaser. I ended up speaking at one of their conferences to 900 entrepreneurs because of different steps that went before that. But Joe Polish was at that conference, and I touted one of his programs. And so he and I, have, you know, been in touch ever since. And I, I remember one time I had done something on LinkedIn, and he wrote me and said, you know, Meredith, I really need to be doing more on LinkedIn. So I wanted to introduce him to somebody. And after I did that, he had, I actually had a phone call about it, and he said, Well, Meredith, what can I do for you? You've been so great to me. And that's the kind of thing that happens. You know, where people say, What can I do for you after you give to them? So the bottom line, I'd say, rather than giving a recipe, is when you're getting ready to approach someone, do enough research on them, so you get an idea of where they're trying to go with their business and how you could be a value to them, either again, by making an introduction or providing something that maybe they didn't know about. I'd say that's really a key point so that you're perceived as someone that's a giver when you approach them.

Robert Plank 29:58 I love that so much. And. To have someone like that to be asking you what they can do for you is so amazing. And I just, I love the quick and easy ways that you're describing this, because it's super easy for you to just look at someone's I mean, in this day and age, we look at their LinkedIn, look at their Facebook, look at their blog or their podcast, and you can pretty easily see something that could help them, or something that they're working on, or something that they're missing. And you just make and you just make a quick introduction. You make that quick resource. And I have a friend who I had on my podcast once, and every now and then, he'll like, if he sees a news article or something that like, I think he thinks I'll find interesting, he'll print it out, put it in an envelope and shoot it in the mail to me. And how long does that take? A couple of minutes. He didn't have to write a big, huge, long thing. He didn't have to go out of his way and spend all the time in the day to help other people. Just a quick touch, a quick helping out. Super Amazing. We make that a part of our daily lives. I mean, that seems like a great, great thing to do. So speaking of helping each other out, I want to help you out, and I'm sure that you want to help the people in our audience out. So can you tell us about your websites and what you have there and what you can do for us?

Speaker 1 31:07 Sure? Thank you. I'm on LinkedIn quite a bit, so if you look me up there, Meredith Bell and our two websites, we have one for it's a survey tool. Surveys for small business that I think would be of interest to your audience, where you can set up a survey to, you know, get feedback about your company or your product or even yourself from others. And then we have another one called strong for performance.com which is an online coaching and development tool if you want to improve communication skills or strengthen areas that you need to be an entrepreneur, like courage and perseverance and composure, so that you don't get rattled by things that happen inevitably over the years.

Robert Plank 31:59 Awesome. So So those places to go. So there's Meredith bell on LinkedIn. There's strong for performance.com. And what was that other one in the middle? I'm sorry,

Speaker 1 32:08 that's okay. Surveys for small business.

Robert Plank 32:12 Surveys for small business.com. Well, super awesome. I'm glad that you took the time to stop by. I hope that everyone got a lot out of our discussion today, and a really good reminder, because it's really tempting. It's really easy to let ourselves be stuck in our box, to hide behind the computer screen. If some of us are working from home, it's easy to just like, hide there and think to ourselves, I'm just gonna be the mad scientist. I'll just be the person that has a really good idea, and I'll hunker down and I'll do my little marketing thing. Well, have fun trying to make some sales without going out and talking to people, or without getting your customers or your joint venture partners. If you want to not have to work so hard and you want to make the big money, you have to reach out to people. You have to solve people's problems, be a giver, build those relationships, all great stuff, and maybe things that maybe we heard back in the day, and maybe over time, we let those things get put to the wayside, and we wrote those things off as maybe sayings or platitudes. Well, these things work. We need to make them as part of our daily life. So make sure that you check out those websites and make sure that you connect with Meredith on LinkedIn. How great would it be if you reached out to Meredith on LinkedIn said, Hey, I heard your podcast on Robert plank, or heard your interview on Robert plank's podcast. And like to connect with you, and I want to know what you're doing, or I want to see how AK can help you. Why not reach out to the giver herself? You can give to her. And I love the tip that we began with of, if there's any kind of marker that you follow or book author, whoever, maybe take the time today to spend those couple of minutes to reach out, so that way you actually took some action after listening to today's show. So thanks Meredith for stopping by and sharing some of these insights, for these things that we all need to do, no matter what size business, what niche, no matter how long we've been in this, no matter what we know we all need to do this. So thanks for coming by and setting us straight.

Speaker 1 34:03 Thank you, Robert. I enjoyed our conversation.

Robert Plank 34:06 We really appreciate you listening to today's episode of marketer of the day. Subscribe to us on iTunes and rate and review us at marketer of the day, comm slash iTunes.

Robert Plank 34:18 You.