521: Build, Then Hire: Get Messy Early, Delegate, Invest Ahead of Your Business, and Find Future Clients with Leslie Hassler

Speaker 1 0:00 Marketer of the day. Episode 521, build then hire. Get Messy early delegate, invest ahead of your business and find future clients with Leslie Hassler.

Robert Plank 0:12 Hey, everyone. We're so glad that you're back with us and listening. We're talking right now with accelerated Business Growth coach and time management Stickler, Leslie Hassler. And Leslie is a popular author and speaker, and she spends a lot of her time coaching business owners on how to run their growing business by their rules. And she delivers high touch, personalized service. And she works with her clients as a partner, and not just one of those consultants who would pop in and tell you what to do and then leave and never be seen again. And Leslie teaches her clients a structured way to decide what to do, first and second and next and never in their businesses, so that they can learn to do it for themselves. Leslie lives in Dallas, and she is about getting your business in ship shape so it grows and you can be home in time for dinner. She speaks about business leadership, prioritizing the business owners to do list how to create and implement a strategic plan for growth. So if any or all those subjects sound interesting and fun and exciting to you, it is time to buckle up, get strapped in, and hit the butt the Launch button on the rocket, because they're about to take off here. So Leslie, glad to be talking to you. Well, howdy,

Leslie Hassler 1:18 thank you for having me.

Robert Plank 1:20 Glad to have you. So, I mean, with all the things that you have going on, what's your focus these days? What's on your mind and your business?

Leslie Hassler 1:26 Well, I mean, if we're talking about my specific business is this year, we're really laser focusing on our marketing strategies, really trimming it down. So we wrote a book, and that is launching here real shortly. So that's one of our primary drivers, and what's going to drive our business. So everything in my world right now is relating to that book.

Robert Plank 1:51 Well, cool. So you have that focus, and you're not split in all those different ways. And so, you know, this is a really interesting topic for me here, because it seems like we have to go through these cycles, right? Of, like, doing a bunch of stuff and then cleaning up all the garbage, and then starting up in the garbage in and I think that it makes me think that, you know, when I first got started, like, years and years ago, I told myself I had to have this exact plan, and I had to do all these different things, and that didn't really work. But what did work was creating different things and having somewhat of a sprawling business that made money, but then was hard to manage. And then I had to go and look at what was working wasn't working, and then make it nice and tidy again. And then after a while, I was like, Well, I'm getting bored with this. Let me try new things, like, like you mentioned, making a book and and then it became a big mess again. And after this happened a few different times. I thought to myself, Well, maybe it's okay. Maybe this is the way that it's supposed to happen, where we try a bunch of things, throw things at the wall, see what sticks, and not to do that forever, but just kind of be strategic and kind of go with the cycle. So I mean, do you agree or disagree or have any thoughts on that? Oh, I

Leslie Hassler 2:58 completely agree. And I think that's what I really talk a lot about in the book. First this then that is that there is no one way to run a business. There's no one way to grow a business. There's so many variables you have to really understand the core process and journey, if you will, of being an entrepreneur, to feel better about where you are, in some ways, but that process of it getting messy and clean and messy and clean is natural if you're growing right, and if you're innovating, and if you're shifting as your market shifts and as you grow and as your clients grow, you're going to go through that. I think where people miss stab is when they're first starting out, they're not willing to be messy. They're so focused on being perfect, they're not willing to get messy a little bit to find out what their own personal secret sauce is. And like you, you mentioned, it is like tracking and seeing what works and doesn't work. That's kind of the second misstep people don't track. They don't keep track of the results, and so they make hasty and non strategic decisions because they're not paying attention to what's happening in your business. This whole focusing in my own business comes from we know, hands down, hands down. What drives my business is speaking because people get to have a conversation and get to experience the book is an extension of that speaking, and it creates a wider funnel, like there's some leverage. There's a lot of leveraging that we're doing with the book. And the books really not necessarily intended to drive clients. It's intended to drive speaking, and so that will drive clients. And so it's just, it's very systematic, but if I didn't know what was unequivocally working in my business, I would be doing the same strategies I was doing three years ago that were costing me a ton of money and generating pennies for what I was investing. So you. Do have to have worked with my mastermind group last week, and I gave them this little stress ball that was in the shape of an owl, because I wanted them to remember that we have to be wise owls in our business. We've got to make sure that we're paying attention to what's happening in the business so that we can make strategic decisions about our future so completely agree with you. I did, I spaghetti test I throw I'm like, let's see if it'll stick. And we're always willing to see if something will stick, because that shows us our future opportunity. But being very focused at the same time and knowing what how things are impacting your business and where they're impacting is so crucial, it's your own crystal ball

Robert Plank 5:43 that's really powerful stuff. So you're saying number one, get messy early. Do that spaghetti test and find your personal secret sauce. Hey, hey, both those things work right the throw on the spaghetti noodle at the wall, and the spaghetti has got the got sauce too. So perfect metaphor. And then number two, track your results, so that way you don't make those hasty decisions at a, you know, panic or fear. And what the hasty decisions there reminds me of is, you know, like with, uh, with stock market stuff, right? If you ever played around with stock market, it's like, if there's the the smallest little bit of bad news, things, just everyone panics. And if, a stock falls $10 suddenly everyone lost $10 and they sell everything. And it's like, but maybe when things dropped, maybe you should double down, or maybe you should have done nothing and waited for it to climb back up. And so it's really interesting how if we don't have the strategy, or we don't think things through, if we just rely on our emotions, well, then our emotions will betray us, because we don't know if we're gonna wake up and be in a happy mood or in a sad mood or something bad happened to us, and if we let that guide the way, then we'll almost guaranteed go off track. And so you're a coach who helps people to make the right decisions and be smart and strategic about their business. So do you have any interesting stories about maybe, like a before and after kind of case study where, if you came across someone who was just really having a rough time, and you jumped in and you apply your secret sauce and made things really great?

Leslie Hassler 7:16 Yes, actually, I do. But I think one that sticks out in my head is a client that I met when I was speaking at a conference out on the East Coast. And she was, she was in this conference, and she was one of those people that were getting up out of her seat to go take a cell phone call in the middle of whatever presentation was going on. And I sat there in this space of like, you know, maybe half a day in our main section, and I was watching her, and I counted, she got up, like, four or five times, you know, couldn't even, like, sit in a chair to learn on, you know, to learn things on how to improve her business, because she was so wrapped up into it. And that's a little bit you started talking about reactive decision making. Well, that's a bit of a reactive decision. Right to answer the phone when you're in something that's about development and improving your business, instead of choosing to be focused, that's a reactive decision. And she happened to come to my breakout session. We happened to start to work together, and she everything was a little bit fly by the seat of your pants in that she wasn't sure where her money was. She wasn't sure if she had enough money, you know, for next month or next year. Always concerned about that next client. So she took on so many clients at a time because she was afraid, you know, if I don't, if I don't enjoy the feast, and I, you know, I'm not going to have any money in the famine. And one of the things we weren't really worked with her on is getting her support systems. I know you love systems too, and processes in place and team so that she could manage the work that she had. But then we just gave her the tools that would actually help her make business decisions. So one of those tools was Cash Flow Report. Everybody hates a Cash Flow Report. I put my mastermind group into it. Every single one of them that walked in last week gave me like you are, you know the devil incarnate. Look, I don't need this. Every business owner thinks this. But let me tell you what this little predictive tool does it can show you the money in your business six weeks out, six months out, three years. The tool we use is automated, so we can show you out years and events. And we'd get on the phone, she's like, Leslie, I need to hire a person, but I don't feel like, can you know that same angst that every business owner comes in with when they're looking at needing to hire more people or maybe hire an outsourced team to take care of something, is they don't know that they can afford it, and they just see what's in their bank account today, and it says no. And every time she'd come and she'd ask my opinion, and the answer was, I don't know, let's go check your cash flow report. And we every time. We did this, whether it was team, computer, travel, investment, whatever it was, we just went back to that Cash Flow Report, and after sitting with her and just getting her comfortable with the tool, in all actuality, she could answer her own questions and she'd be like, Oh, I can support a person. And not only can I support them, I can support them for nine months before I need them to actually be bringing in money. Well, you and I both know, if you're waiting nine months for, you know, money to occur because you've brought on a new team member, you probably, you might have to look at things there. But her system was set up to such that that employee should have been revenue generating within 60 days. And so then could flip over and start being, start paying for themselves to be in the business. And I think that's where we get back to that, not knowing if we're willing to stick our head in the sands and say, I'm not a number person. I don't, I don't, I don't want to track that. I don't need that. Then we never know how we can actually grow and move forward. And we wind up putting out a lot more fires than we do in making smart business decisions that drive our business super

Robert Plank 11:07 interesting. So have that data available, have the support systems available, so that way we get out of that the scarcity hungry mode, and we get more into the abundance mode. And I'm gonna have to admit the delegating, the outsourcing. It's always been a weakness with me. I definitely need to grow my team bigger and get in that, that better mindset of of Not, not hanging on to all my pennies. And, you know, and you know, it's something else that was really helpful that I didn't even, I don't know if I just was ignoring it or I only came across it a couple of years ago. But, you know, everyone talks about outsourcing, and the thing, the thing that really turned me off about outsourcing for the longest time was people said, oh, you know, I just, I just sit back and I give the orders and I push the buttons and I tell everyone what to do, and I just kind of sit back and relax and it happens. And for years and years, I thought that's not really what I want. And what was more interesting for me was the idea that, you know, option number one is that I do everything myself, way too much to do, not enough hours in the day. But then option number two is I take that inventory. I look at the tasks I do, maybe the tasks I don't do that I need to. I look at the money coming in, and then I go and I hire someone to do some of those tasks, not to sit back and do nothing, but so that way I can do more tasks and get more done in the business and just keep growing and growing over time. And that that abundance thinking made a lot more sense to me, as opposed to just, I'll be the puppet master and push all the buttons. Yeah,

Leslie Hassler 12:40 I think you've got to get over a couple of things. A I am a control freak. And a half, I'm an entrepreneur. That's one of the reasons why I'm an entrepreneur. And so it is hard to let go. I think you have to get to a point to where you know how to delegate, but you don't abdicate. And that's two different things. And when it goes wrong, typically, it's because a business owner has abdicated, you know, involvement in what they've sent on to somewhere else. But the other part is knowing what to do with which task, if that makes sense, so I can easily create a process that anybody you know that can read contract, can can follow and execute off of and those are really easy tasks that I can send out on Fiverr Upwork. You know, they don't really take my involvement in it, but I do, like a lot of collaboration, right? I want to, I I'm one of those people that look and see that everyone has their strengths, and my strengths are mine, but they're not everything that I need to have done in my business. So I try to bring in those strengths so that we can leverage and grow. But I think every up level, you know, when you first start out in business, you don't have any money, or limited money, or you're scared, and you're trying to save that money, and then you get to a point to where you've got money, but you don't have any time, but you're in a very bit. My husband calls it the him, the ant and the hay. Like, which one comes first, and how do you get them all across the road? If you only do two at a time, it's it's a very convoluted process of yin and yang, and which part do you do first? And you almost have to invest ahead of your success so that you can create space. And like you said, you're not just sitting back and resting on your laurels. You're going to that next level of growth. And really what you need to do, and ideally, a business owner needs to be focused on green, is what I call it. You know, being focused on the green, and that is finding your future clients and marketing through marketing, selling to them so that they convert off of a lead and become a client and serving them. And those should be for a long time, your primary, your primary tasks. And if you that you've got tasks that aren't related to those, you need to be. Hiring those out because they're a distraction, and eventually you can get to where you're just marketing and selling and not even serving. You know, you have other team members that are actually doing the service. So it's an evolution, but as long as you create you're that center cog in the works of your business, you'll really never be able to grow and truly have the level of profits that you need in order to succeed. Interesting.

Robert Plank 15:25 It's helpful, but also a little bit of a blow to the ego, right? Because, like a lot of us, and including me, myself, let our ego hold us back because we think that we need to do it all, or that we're going to be spending time dealing with the person that does the work. But what I'm hearing from you, which is really helpful and reassuring, is that it's not all or nothing like we can we can start small and try some different tasks, and it's not permanent, like you said. It's an evolution. So where our business and our life and our our time in the day, it's in a certain state right now, but we might reconfigure things and then reconfigure things again. And so you mentioned that that you do some of the hiring on fiber, fiber and Upwork. And I've, I've been better at doing, you know, going to fire really quick, and getting some graphics made, or getting some videos made, things like that. I've been less hesitant to do that. So I'm curious about what sort of tasks are you going to these job sites and outsourcing, just to give us a good idea of how can we dip our toe in the water with this well?

Leslie Hassler 16:30 And I think you touched on it really easy. And I look at Fiverr and Upwork. Upwork a little Upwork is a little different. So let me tackle Fiverr. Fiverr is like the down and dirty. I've got one thing that needs to be done, and if a person has an expertise, they can do it without me. That's Fiverr to me. So like the book, everything in my life is around the book. I needed the Kindle file and a nook file. Well, I went to Fiverr and I paid $60 for somebody else to format and convert my manuscript into these two files so that we could then work it back into the book launch in our in our launch team, that's a no brainer to me, like I don't need to manage them, as long as they know what they're doing and so yes, be, you know, ask good questions if you need to find a good partner. But go off the reviews nine times out of 10 if they're there tier one, and they've got five star reviews all over the wazoo. The person I chose had 2005 star reviews. Chances of them fouling it up is really minimal, and chances that, if that's the case, like the risk to me was 60 bucks, that's nothing. So it's a very low risk thing. So anything like that. You want animated videos, you need a graphic. You need a logo, you need a business card. You need anything like that where a person just needs information and they can do their job and it's a one task or one off task. Send it out. You know, it's so cheap. You're, you're you're shooting yourself in the foot by holding on to that, and feeling like you could do it and Upwork, you can get partners who have more strategy or more expertise, and you can have more of a relationship. I feel like with those, and we've had a couple, but I usually use Upwork has been a case of, I want higher end type of work, or I want researching kind of work, or I need spot very, what I call almost like doctor visits, if you will. Like, I need a shot of SEO. I need a shot of copywriting. I need a shot of whatever that is. And I will use Upwork for that, but when we're doing like, we're the launch for the book, you know, and the marketing that's going behind that, and the funnel and all that nice, fun stuff, I that's a local partner for me, because I need to be able to pick up the phone and talk to them, because we have so many moving pieces I need. I need somebody that's really an expertise and what they're doing, who will partner with me, and we're having conversations on a frequent basis during this launch. So that's that's that next level. But I do think when people think of team and bringing on team in their business, they automatically think full time employee. And there's so many shades of gray between Fiverr and full time employee, that you've got a lot of flexibility to choose the right solution for where you are in your business.

Robert Plank 19:30 This is super awesome. This is really helpful, because I've never heard it explained that way before, that there's there's different sections there. I always kind of look because I used to use Upwork way back in the day for transcription and for editing of books and things like that. And then I ignored Fiverr, because, you know, Fiverr took a while to get started, yeah. And I just sort of threw out Upwork. And I went to Fiverr and said, but this is great. So you're saying that Fiverr is like, for more of like, the low end one task, get it done. Upwork is for the higher end, or, you know, you need someone to do a bigger job, like SEO for your website, and then a local partner that maybe you'd find on on Craigslist or through referrals or things like that, is for the big stuff, like book launch.

Leslie Hassler 20:16 Yeah, if you, if you will, you've got to be, I think where people misstep is they'll want to go to Fiverr and spend $5 to and have somebody that's highly expertise in developing something that's very strategic for their business. That's not fair. You know, it's we have a great democratization of services, and you can be working with people all over the world, which is fabulous, but let's be reasonable about what we're expecting for, you know, our investment, and what kind of return you're actually looking to have. So if it, if it matters, pay for quality. If it's down in what I consider down and dirty, it was just, it doesn't have to be perfect. You know, good is good enough. I try to tell people like most entrepreneurs are card carrying members of perfectionist, anonymous. Wait. What I realized in my my tenure as an entrepreneur, is my expectation of perfect is, is an, you know, way exceeding most everybody else's expect. Expectation of perfect from me so I could get away with doing an 80% job, and people felt like it was 100% so I always just try to keep that we're so hyper critical on ourselves. I try to keep that in in mind, in understanding how I'm using to invest my dollars and what I really need do. I need a logo to blow it out of the park. I'm sorry. No, no one's buying you for your logo. They're not. Do you need content to blow it out of the park? More likely, because that's really, you know, where people are starting to develop their relationship with you. So I do think you have to, you know, keep things in perspective for what you're trying to achieve and make sure you're working on things that are going to generate results in your business. I

Robert Plank 22:07 love it, yeah. So, so don't be a perfectionist. There's no money in that and so, so something I'm curious about in these last few minutes we have here is so like, Okay, we get over the fear of hiring people, we get that person and then but, but as you know, like you hire someone, and sometimes things don't always go super great, right? And sometimes you need to repeat instructions or make the process clearer, or fire the person and switch the person out. And I'm in my mid 30s now. When I was in my early 20s, I I really gave this hiring thing a real shot. I'm a computer programmer. I got tired at the time of doing all this programming, and I went and hired a programmer to do some of the things that I wanted, and every time that I worked with him, it was just it was like substandard work. I'd have to repeat stuff three times. I felt like I was spending way more time just watching and managing him, and he was actually doing the work, and I eventually just gave up and got frustrated, and I wish that I had pushed more and kind of done more and more of that outsourcing way back then. So I mean, do you have any thoughts on that? Like, when you you hire someone, what's your thought process? What's your strategy, as far as giving them a chance, making it work. How do you, how do you hire someone and make it not be a huge headache?

Leslie Hassler 23:26 Well, I'm gonna be honest, you're probably gonna have to kiss a lot of frogs, you know, before you find the prince of an employee or team member, outsource partner. And I think I was talking with a client that, you know, we both had experiences last year where you took a chance on a partner, and it didn't fare it out well. And she she was, she was talking about her lack of trust, and how she just feel like she couldn't trust anyone. And then I shared with her, you know, she her case, what she did. I think it wound up she felt like she wasted $800 I was like, Oh, honey, let me tell you. Let me just tell you. And at the end of last year, it was an effort in bringing on a partner that could do a lot of different things for us. That I went through three different firms, and through those three different firms, it cost me $4,000 of money that didn't really have a chance to get return, a return on investment. And I could have chosen to say, oh, everybody's bad, but really what it was, as I said, I learned a little bit more about what I needed to be saying to potential partners in order to make sure I was getting the right one. My first one, you know, is a case of somebody I personally knew had a good reputation. You know, everything looked clean like there was good documentation. I wanted contract. I wanted detail. I was looking for ways that I know to make these partnerships work, and it didn't work 45 days in, I. Was like, it's just not working. Um, you're, you're, this is true. New in your business, for you to understand how the speed that I need to be at, and she agreed at that time, which is fabulous, and we still have a relationship, but I think you have to pay attention to the red flags and know what they are for you. Um, early on in the relationship, missing deadlines. That's a red flag for me, right? I move fast, and I'm very upfront about that, um, but there's, there's other, lack of detail is a red flag for me, like, when I like, if I ask for a timeline, or, you know, let me just see documentation so I make sure we're on the same page and that can't get produced. That's a red flag for me, because I know the difference between people that are running a business and people that are still trying to figure it out. And while everybody has a day one in order to have a day 10,000 I know for where we are in my personal business, what we need in our partners in order to make it to our next level. And so I just look for those red flags, and I think you have to be fearless and saying this red flag has been raised so that it doesn't get to a point of being in an emotional disappointment or anger, or any of that in business. It's just a pure business fact. Of these are three. These are the red flags I see, and for these reasons, I don't feel like, well, we're going to have a good business relationship, and we need to discontinue this so that you can work with people that you love to work with, and I can achieve the goals that I'm doing and keep it in a more positive environment, but you do. You have to be vigilant. You're you own this ship, and you have to be the one that's captaining it. And so if you're not going to take the leadership in that you will, you will forever be spending your wheels having to redo things. But you do have to kiss a lot of frogs, just like you have to be messy with what works in your business. It's going to be a little messy until you land on the right people just don't spend too much time and money on partnerships that aren't working.

Robert Plank 27:11 That's good to know going in, that if we can plan and think ahead a little bit and know what the goal is, then we won't be frustrated by the day to day. So I mean, this has been a really great conversation so far. And what's really great about it is that, like you're saying all these things that are concrete and practical make a lot of sense, but it's also just really simple stuff. It's like, so simple so so plain as day. And so I want to make sure in a second here that we know about your resources, your links, about the upcoming book, all these ways that we can check what you, check out what you have, and get in touch with you and all those sorts of things. But you know, before we do, I'm gonna be like, selfish for about, like, 60 seconds here in that ever since I I began doing these interviews for about a year and a half, like, the number one message I've been getting is you gotta outsource. You gotta delegate. And as I alluded to a little bit like, I've been doing some, but I definitely need to do more. So do you have anything to say to me and also to people listening? Like, if we don't outsource enough, any anything to say to like, kick us in the butt because you've given us the the carrot. How about the stick? Alright,

Leslie Hassler 28:17 here's your stick. Is you've got if you've created a job for yourself and you're just calling it a business, you'll forever be the one responsible for doing the work. The job of an entrepreneur is not to do the work. The job of the entrepreneur is to ensure the work gets done two different entities in and of themselves. So if you're not profitable, if you're stuck, if you are just hovering around this one revenue number, all you know, chances are you need to let go and stop being an employee in the business and start becoming a business owner.

Robert Plank 28:53 Perfect. Well, I'm going to take that audio clip and I'm going to listen to it once a week for the next year, so that way I get this drilled into my head, because it's sometimes it takes a while, or it's painful, or it's work to change our way of thinking. And so so I really appreciate that. And you know, Nothing's ever perfect. We can't be a perfectionist. We all have our flaws. My flaw at the moment is that at an outsource enough, but I'm hoping that in the next few weeks here that that'll next few weeks or months, and that'll all change. And so I appreciate you coming by and kind of changing our way of thinking here. So people here are just wowed and amazed and say, you know, I if this starting to make sense to me here, I've been doing things, not everything the wrong way, but there definitely could be some reconfiguration, some some tweaks, some adjustments, some new possibilities, and that can come from an outside perspective, an outside coach, and maybe that coach could be Leslie Hassler herself. So can you let us know about are there ways that people can reach out contact you see what you're about, so that way they can have your outside approach to completely explode their business?

Leslie Hassler 29:59 Yeah. Yeah, so the easiest way is through the main website, which is your biz, B, I, Z, rules, R, U, L, E, s.com, information about the book is up there, as well as just the free things I share. I'm a very big pay it forward kind of gal, but if you really think I want to, I want to chat with her. You know, I might be ready to take a new, new look at my business so that we can grow it strategically. Then there's just a little conversation. It says, you know, I'm ready. And we just said we have a conversation. It's really easy peasy, and that I just want to make sure we can have an impact and value in your business. And if we can't, and you still need help. I'm, I'm committed to connecting you to the people that can do it for you so, but you'll never know if you don't have a conversation, right?

Robert Plank 30:50 And there's, there's no downside, maybe a little bit of a butterflies in the stomach for a minute or two, but you get over that, and then you have all these possibilities here. And you know, what's really great about you people listening to the podcast here is that it's, there's so many guests that that offer this kind of quick chat and and I imagine Leslie that as much as I mean, I'm sure you hop on different podcasts and you offer this kind of free, quick chat thing, I imagine that a lot of people don't take you up on that, right? A lot of people just listen. They don't take that little bit of action to go there and book the chat with you. So, so, I mean, I wish that people would, and you know, if you listening right there you the person that's listening. I'm talking directly to you. You might have heard some episodes of this podcast on from different guests, different subjects, and some of those previous guests might have offered this quick, free chat offer, and you might have brushed it aside for whatever reason. Maybe you weren't ready for it. Maybe it didn't like the person. Maybe it was off topic. But if you're listening to this conversation with me and Leslie right now, and you say, You know what, I've listened to a few episodes and I've passed up other people's offers for the quick chat, well, if you've noticed that you've been doing that, maybe that's a sign for you to go ahead and make a change, just like it's a sign for me that I personally Robert plank, need to delegate more maybe you listening. Need to take more action. And when some of these guests offer the free quick chat, go ahead and do it. So the place to go right now is your biz rules.com, and check out the details on that book. But more importantly, go ahead and take that little bit of action and schedule the chat with Leslie. She doesn't mind. This is what her business is all about. She's probably excited to hear about your problems, your struggles, and she's excited to jump in and see what kind of magic she can work there. So you owe it to yourself, don't let this pass you by. Don't let this be an interview that you listen to today and then five years later, you still didn't book your chat. Go ahead. Do it right now, in the next few minutes before you even forget the place to go is your biz rules.com and book that chat with Leslie so that way she can hear about your business and talk to you and help you to move along to where you need to go, wherever that is, and you'll be glad you did so your biz rules.com and thanks Leslie for stopping by and setting us straight here.

Leslie Hassler 33:00 Well, thank you for having me. I had a lot of I had a lovely time. Want to

Robert Plank 33:04 be a guest on marketer of the day. Or can you recommend an author, speaker coach or entrepreneur with a great success story and awesome insights? Go to marketer of the day.com/ask. And tell us who you'd like to have on the show. That's marketer of the day.com/ask,