840: Make an Impact, Start your Business and Pursue Your Passion with David Finberg

Speaker 1 0:00 marketer of the day, Episode 840 make an impact. Start your business and pursue your passion with David Finberg.

Robert Plank 0:13 Welcome back to the marketer of the day podcast, we're here with David Finberg from peaks, digital marketing.com. Now, this is a guy that you want to sit up and pay close attention to, because David has been making websites since he was nine years old. He's the founder of peaks, digital marketing, he has generated 10s of millions of dollars in revenue for his clients. But for him, success is making an impact on other's lives while being able to do what you love and make your business the best they can be. So David, glad to be talking to you.

Unknown Speaker 0:42 Hey, Robert, thanks so much for for having me on the show. It's a pleasure.

Robert Plank 0:46 And it is a pleasure to have you and so so yeah, like SEO and websites. It's one of these topics where it could be really fun if we make it fun week, and we talk about all the cool things we do with websites, or it could be really bland and boring and dull, if we get too much into the technicalities. So I am looking forward to talking to you about some some fun stories, some insights, some aha. So in today's break, Nick, fast paced, exciting world of search engine optimization, what the heck do we need to know I mean, what's been going on the last six or 12 months?

Speaker 3 1:16 We had, so a couple of big, big algorithm changes this year with respect to things like backlinks site speed, content, user experience. So you might be sitting there guessing, like what the heck are all these things right. And and I'm really excited to get to share some of these actionable insights and kind of litmus tests that you can use to determine whether your site has some room for improvement, maybe some low hanging fruit opportunities and, and how you can go about actually implementing some of these changes on your site so that you can get, you know, make an impact and get more value out of your existing traffic base, or potentially even grow your traffic base. Right. So you know, looking back over the last year, one of the most important things that I harp on is actually harped on quite heavily in the SEO industry. Right now. There's some some red herrings or some like people shouting from the rooftops. And yes, it is important, but no isn't the end of the world, right? But one thing that you really want to focus on is your site speed. And so why is site speed so important? Right? Site Speed is one of those kind of gray areas that most people don't think about when they're making or developing a website, your site speed actually has a ton to do with how well you're going to engage and retain your traffic. And so there's some stats out there done. There's a study done by CloudFlare, which is a content delivery network, they specialize in providing fast user experiences, and they've done their own internal research and data sampling. And they found that sites that convert higher have lower speed, you know, lower thresholds of speed, so it just, they load a lot quicker, right. And so if your site loads in eight to 10 seconds, versus let's say, three to five seconds, right, you can actually double your conversion rate just by speeding up your site. And so that's one of the stats that that was thrown out there was that, you know, conversion rate and site speed, have this correlating relationship, and that the faster your site is, especially once you get down into that 1234 second range, right, you can see an exponential increase in every site's a little different, right? So don't quote me on 50% of it, roughly, that was that was the stat right was, you know, you go from an eight or 10 second site down to a two, three, maybe even a four second site, in terms of loading time, your conversion rate can effectively double. So why is that? Right? Why do we care so much about sicb? Why does Google care so much about it?

Speaker 3 3:42 The main consideration or main kind of distinction that you want to make with sites is that people are impatient, right? And so I don't know, if you're like me, like I grew up in the dial up era, right? We had a 28, eight modem, it was a extremely slow experience, there wasn't a broadband in the early 90s. Right. And so, you know, over time, you know, the as internet got faster, right, our expectations became more aggressive, right. And, you know, for those of us that were on the internet, in the early dial up days, like, we know that things are faster now. Right? We know that the website speed is like 10 times what it was before, if you're on a cable, and that connection that said, when we're on our phones, is really where the speed makes a difference. And so, you know, it used to be to be we'd go load a webpage, we go get a bowl of cereal, get some to eat, come back, and it'd be loaded. Right. And we're okay with that. Now, you know, especially for some of the Gen Z tech talkers, especially for for just millennials, boomers everyone, right? We have this expectation that that speed equals quality, speed equals, you know, consistency, and it equals success. And so, you know, one when you're on that 3g connection, and you're in that shoddy area of town po cell phone service, Google wants to make sure that your site can still load quickly. So what happens right right when you when you're sitting there on your phone and it's taking 10 seconds to load, what do most of us do, we hit the back button, hitting that back button. Google actually looks at Chrome and behavior that happens in Chrome to determine how effective of a job that they did in serving the right website, right. And so Google's whole mantra is let's create the best experiences for our users. Right? So we when someone searches something, and we present them with that number one website, that website is number one for a reason, right? It's got the best experience the best content, maybe the best loading speed. Alright, and so loading speed is a factor in how Google determines the quality of your website. And so another factor is when people hit that back button, right there telling Google this was a low quality site. Right. So what does that mean for us? Well, if we're on, you know, inherently, not everyone has a 5g yet, right? We're not at the point where we're no matter where we are in the world, internet speed is at a point where it's like broadband at our house. And so what Google is really looking for is can we optimize our sites to prioritize content that is above the fold? Right, or the hero part is some people reference it as what's the content that you first land on? How quickly can you load that portion of your content, we're not asking you to load the whole website right away. But we want to make sure that a user is able to see something in a very short threshold of time, whether they're on 3g, 5g, 28, eight, right, like maybe not 20, but like broadband. So that's where the speed matters. And that's where you can get some user behavior signals that work against your SEO, where people are hitting the back button, right? We're impatient, it, it doesn't matter if it's going to a satellite or going to a cell tower and going to Google coming back, like we expect it to be to load under four seconds, right. So that's really where a lot of business owners have this, this inherent opportunity in the sense that PageSpeed can affect all of your traffic, right? If Google prioritizes it as a ranking factor, it's not the end all be all, don't, don't get it twisted, don't let people sell you snake oil. It is an important component. And so if your site is, you know, you can run a speed tests on your site by just going to Google and searching Google PageSpeed Insights, type your website, and it's going to tell you what your score is. A lot of websites, most websites that haven't ever optimized their speed, that might be like a 20. On mobile, right, it might be taking eight or 10 seconds to load. Right, versus once it's optimized, you typically we go for like a minimum of like 50, or 60, on mobile, right. And the goal is like a sub four second loading times, and not to get too far into the weeds. But for those of you that are comparing your scores, right, like anything above a 50, or 60, is pretty low. Right? On mobile, and on desktop, anything above a 90 is relatively low desktop should be a lot easier to optimize for. But if you take, you know, if we just take a step back and walk through right, users are impatient. We don't we expect convenience, we expect speed, when sites load slow, just think of a time when a site loaded slow for you, what do you do you hit the back button, you go to the next one, right? Are you refresh it? Are you trying to figure out what the heck's going on? Right and, and oftentimes, you're gonna hit the back button. So these are kind of detrimental to conversions are detrimental to getting people to stay on the site, your bounce rate is going to be higher, you're going to have a lower amount, you know, let's say you're putting 100 leads in to the to your website, maybe only 50 are going to stay there. Right. Whereas if we can, instead of just adding more leads to the top of the funnel, better convert the traffic that you have, that's a one time fix, or maybe a couple times a year where you're analyzing your site speed, but it's not like this huge, you know, recurring commitment that you need to maintain in terms of, you know, developers and content experts is it's much more granular, right? Hey, let's find someone to fix our site speed. Cool. So that can range you know, in price, depending on the size scope of your site, depending on what platform you're on, right Magento sites can be 1000s of dollars. WordPress sites can be, you know, in from one to 2000 Ms. Sometimes less, sometimes more just depends, right? So if you look at as a low hanging fruit opportunity, there, there's actually a reason why there's low hanging fruit opportunities. Okay, so Google knows that site speed correlates to higher conversion rates, less bounces, better user engagement with your brand. One could argue that, you know, when we visit a site that's really fast, the data supports, that we're more engaged with that brand, we have more confidence and trust in that brand. But if your site experiences is slow, maybe you're experienced, the brand is going to be slow, or the product is going to be a little clunky, but on conversely the perception of your brand could be exponentially improved. If your site is really fast, you're gonna be like, Wow, these guys are on it. These guys and gals are fast. Their products probably fast their servers probably great. If their sites slow up they're probably slow on service too. Right? Or maybe their their website isn't that good. And maybe their products not that good, right? So we could go down a rabbit hole of excuses and labels of things of why people don't like it that The fact the matter is people don't like so sites. So we'll need.

Robert Plank 10:05 Well, yeah, and just before we get like too far, no, I'm glad that we started with this with the PageSpeed issue, because that's the thing where it's easy to see the result, right. Like when we first started, and I was, I was thinking like, oh, no, we're going to talk about, you know, structured content, or like meta tags or RSS feeds. And it's like, this whole idea of the the site speed, it was actually came to my mind a few minutes before you and I just now met, I went and looked at your website at first. And whenever there's these SEO guys are on a call, I'm like, Okay, how fast does their site load? And I'm like, Well, what kind of tool they use, are they using WordPress, and I clicked around, and it made me realize that there's probably like three different levels, right of site speed, there's, like you said, you load it, and it's slow. And it's like, it's on a on a dial up connection. And then there's like, maybe the mid range where you don't really think too much about it, you're like, Oh, I'm just kind of navigating the website, like you navigate Facebook, you're not really thinking about how fast Facebook is, unless it's kind of having one of those slow days. But then there's like, when I went to your site, there's like, maybe a handful of sites. And I would say, maybe, maybe maybe like one or two sites per day that I visit, where the speed, it's like just a hair faster than I'm used to, right. It's like, I go to the page on like, I'm used to like the white and then like the header generates, and then the rest of it goes through. And I'm thinking like, he must run some kind of caching, or he must have the checkbox set where like it, it pre caches, or a pre generates the whole site. And it was just like a hair faster. And for me, it was like this kind of like real subconscious kind of feeling. I'm like, Okay, I feel like he's like, maybe like 10%, better, or 10% faster than what I'm used to. And you're so right. And like, there's all these different reasons to do it right that, well, Google will rank you higher, because Google are like the gods of the internet. If you appease the internet gods, if if they want it to be faster, you do what they say they will already ranking higher. But then as you also said, there's like the feeling of how the brand is if the website is fast, then they know what they're doing. They have it dialed in there, they keep things up to date, it's not some website that they they made back in those dial up days and let it sit, they keep it on the cutting edge. And it also makes me think that like, there's also the short attention span factor, right, right, David of like, if you have all these tabs open, or you never know, if like your phone might like might ping or some other notification might come up, I'm on your site. And the difference between like seven seconds to get to where I want versus 17 seconds. That's huge. And so I think that that's a really great thing for everyone to think about. And a thing to kind of keep in mind of like have a faster site, even if it means like a couple of seconds faster or twice as fast or optimize those images and see said, search Google for Google PageSpeed Insights to kind of be able to look at this tool, even if we don't fully understand it to have a good kind of starting point of know what our score is nowhere around. So that way, it's not just some kind of guessing like is my site fast or slow? Google PageSpeed Insights, I love it. Sorry to cut you off. But just wanted to kind of recap and connect it all together, as we keep on going here.

Speaker 3 13:17 I appreciate you making that distinction. And to your point, I thought you brought up a really great tiered system like there's A's, B's and C's, right, like an A site might be 10% Faster than a B site and a C sites, you know, an A site compared to a C site is a huge jump, there is a reducing rate of return, right. So I wouldn't go down the rabbit hole of trying to get it perfect. But let's, if you're at that place where it really is loading slow, you will see a pretty dramatic increase in your SEO, right. The other benefit, as you discussed is it's it's it's perception thing, and it's the conversion rate thing. Also, people look at as an SEO factor as well. So just to put out there, like it's not going to substitute great content or a great web experience, one of the factors, if you're already on that lower end of the threshold, definitely something that I would strongly recommend investing in as it's going to help your paid marketing, it's gonna help your email, it's going to help your direct traffic, it's also gonna help your SEO, right, it's also gonna help your social media, right, so people are gonna be visiting your site from multiple different channels. And so that's kind of the the, the just bring this full circle, right? It can help all of your channels convert higher, which is a huge, huge, low hanging fruit opportunity when you when you look at the value that can be added by by doing, you know, 20 to 40 hours of work on the website. Awesome.

Robert Plank 14:39 Okay, so we're talking about low hanging fruit speed up your site, you don't have to spend too much time on a bit it'll help you in all these other ways. And so like So what else are you seeing as far as what we should be focusing on doing and maybe what are people missing as far as making their website the best they can be and, and get this SEO thing dialed in.

Speaker 3 14:58 So that's a that's a perfect segue I'd say, you know, looking at it, there's a couple of areas, typically user experiences one. So like, look at other brands in your niche? Or do they have better branded better quality websites? Do they have better experiences? Are they more interactive? Are they're doing things to keep people on the page longer? So these are more of like, think of this as, as, as your, you know, not necessarily low hanging fruit, but something to think about over time, which is, you know, does our website reflect the quality of our brand? And does it create a consistent experience when you place our brand next to our competitors, right. And so a lot of people have a great desktop website, and their mobile is a little iffy, right? Or their mobile is really great. And their desktops great with the branding and the design of it just doesn't match to, to what a user would expect, right. And so the next kind of segue into that more deeper into that is, is like your content, right? So your, your visual design is really reflection of your content. And so when we're looking at content, we're looking at above the fold content, right? Which pages have high bounce rates, where people either the speed was too slow, or they didn't like the first message that they saw, and they're bouncing away? Right? In some cases, you'll have things like blogs where they will inherently have a high bounce rate. So don't freak out. If you see a page that has a super high bounce rate and a blog. Sometimes people find what they need, and they leave and they're supposed to bounce, right? It's just a discovery based query, it's not necessarily selling them something right? On the reverse end, right? What can we do to better convert our users and create a better user experience. And so what I really recommend doing is finding an agency or finding someone in house that can do some split testing for you. Right, so Google Optimize is a great split testing tool, hot jar Crazy Egg, I really would prefer Google Optimize, that gives you opportunities to make changes within the platform. So you don't have to actually make the changes on your website, you can run some tests to see hey, do people like this heading more? Or you know, heading a or heading B? Do they like the picture, you know, of, of the woman holding, you know, holding the product? Or is this more of a manly product, and you know, people want to, you know, resonate more with a with a male holding the product, there are all these different split tests, right? I would say start with

Speaker 3 17:16 come to come to split test with the with you're basically becoming a professional experiments, right? So you want to make sure the experiments are big enough. But they're also you're not changing too many things at once and getting, like can mix data, right? If you change five things, and it converts better, it's like, well, which of these five things made it convert better, right? We don't know. Maybe it was all of them, maybe it was just one or two of them. So it's important to approach improvements around the website, it from the from the perspective of it's going to take some time, it's going to take some you need to have a constant in that experiment, right. So don't go and change everything change, like just the hero or change, right, just certain elements of the page, maybe it's the copy or the design, right? Start with one or two kind of core things that you know, there's going to be a definitive result at the end of that split test and let it run for a couple of weeks and see how it works. So Google optimizes, you don't have to be a web developer to use it. It's got some really cool drag and drop drop functionality. It's another area where you'll be able to gather some insights and apply those insights to other areas of your site. Again, the whole goal. This is an SEO podcast, right, that we're talking about today. But a lot of this is how do we better convert, right not just add more leads to the top of the funnel that's going to happen organically as we create better content, better experiences, and get backlinks and really work on the site, you know, speed and things like that. That what what we really want to guide you to or if you were to get zero additional hits, let's say you're 100 hits last month, and next month, you're gonna get 100 hits. How do we squeeze a little bit more fruit or a little bit more juice out of that fruit? Right, a little bit more orange juice? If if we're only converting to people taking this whole orange and getting couple drops and throwing it away? How do we get 10 people or 20 people out of those 100 or 50 people out of those 100? Right? And so there is no magic recipe for that. It's a lot of testing, it's SWOT analysis. It's looking at your market and seeing comparing different brands and experiences from both qualitative and quantitative, right, like, how long is their page, they have more content, they have better content and more comprehensive content. Hey, is their website right? neat and clean? Is it load quickly? So some are qualitative, some are quantitative, but really just taking that that, you know, putting the experimenter hat on and saying, hey, I can start tomorrow gathering more data and figuring out we had this this business called fully accountable. They're an outsourced e commerce accounting firm. And they came to us and you know, they have this request a proposal page or schedule a call page, right? We increased the traffic and things were you know, progressing at a at a steady rate. That it's like, well, how do we get more people performance out of this campaign. And so what we started to see is that people were falling off, like going into the data is so important, right, and like understanding what's happening. And so what we saw was that these requests, the proposal pages, or the schedule of call page, I should say, could be converting higher. Right. And so I think it was at a 2% conversion rate. And I think industry average for most stores is like somewhere around 1%. So wasn't bad, right. But like, that means out of every 100 People that hit the page 2%, or hit their website, not the page, right, but hit the website 2% of the that traffic was converting. So what we did is we changed the above the fold content, we put some imagery of the team, we put our phone number, we put some social proof and reviews, we eliminate the barriers to entry. So we didn't ask them for all this information we just asked for, like the email address name and phone number and like a short message, as opposed to like, how much revenue do you get right? Like, we're really trying to gather as much data to give them a great, you know, sales experience that was inherently maybe turning people away. And so we took that from a 2% to a 7%. Now, this isn't some huge draw, Win win, right? Like, we're so great, it's just to show you the power of a couple of small changes can make a substantial impact. And that's where you might not even realize how big of an impact that you know, if you were telling me we were going to triple the conversion rate by a couple of small changes, I would have laughed, right. I've been like, oh, let's I believe when I see it, right? Like, I'm very data driven person. Once I saw that data coming, I was like, wow, this is no, like I did a double take, right? And I'm like, wow, how do we do this across the request to proposal page? How do we do this across other pages now, right? Knowing that people like to see faces, they like, sleeker, cleaner, right? They like to see the reviews, they like to see the phone number in case they don't want to give away their information, right? There's all these different

Speaker 3 21:56 considerations that we're we're guiding the customer towards, as opposed to just fill out your information, right? Like looking back, it's very obvious why this converts higher, right. But it's not going to be when you're in that initial stage. It's like, hey, well, this is converting, it's the two percents not bad, right? But I challenge you to push the envelope a bit more. Alright, take a look, how do you get a 20% conversion rate out of your site? Right, don't say it don't be satisfied. And some of that's going to come down to your targeting, right? Not all of this is necessarily from, you know, from these changes. But if you look at the data, it's very consistent, right? So out of the targeting that we had at the time, by making these changes, there was an improvement. And so that's the the main goal is like, you know, if there's if there's one low hanging fruit opportunity to focus on, it's knowing what users like on your site, and what they don't like, and how do we scale what's working and kind of trim out what's not working and create experiences for users that are best in class. And a lot of SEO is argue that say, PageSpeed isn't a huge ranking factor. It's a ranking factor, people over emphasize and they say, well, contents are ranking factor, but it's more about how well your content does. And these things are true, right? But on the converse end, like people hitting that back button, are really going to impact your score. So PageSpeed contributes to that if your user experience contributes to that, if your content or you're above the fold content contributes to that, why wouldn't we, you know, take the liberty to start looking at these things as levers that we can pull and finding ways to pass some data driven, repeatable experiments, that now we can use ammunition in our marketing meetings with our teams. That's the biggest part of it is like so many people are scared to fail, right? Let's just be married to the site, the web developer did it, it must be good. And as you and I both know, everything's objective, not everyone's gonna feel the exact same way. You can't please everyone, but you can get some insights from a large sample of data. And so, you know, when it's like, Well, hey, we didn't get as much sales this month. How awesome is it to say, well, let's take a look at this page, let's really take a look at what's happening and find ways to get a better conversion rate, maybe a traffic dip down there. There's some other reason, right? But that's, as a C level exact, that's what I look for my team is coming to some solutions, and let's start figuring out where the gems are, instead of, you know, settling for, hey, there was a Google algorithm update, and we just aren't going to get as many leads now, right? Or, hey, you know, our sites B or whatever it is, right? It's just these are things that encourage you to start looking at, you don't have to be an expert at these right away. But it can be as simple as changing the color of a button could be as simple as, hey, we can, you know, optimize the entire site. But what we can do is we can optimize the images that are really large and get our PageSpeed into more acceptable range, which right might be that 80% And then the last 20 percents the hardest, right? So these are things that if we think about at a high level, right, we can talk to our developer We can talk to our team, we can talk to our web designers. And for those of you that are these roles, right, you can now have the confidence in knowing that you're not objectively making recommendations, we're actually looking at how the market responds to this. And that's all we as marketers we can do is make decisions based off of the data and not everything's going to be a winner. And that's good, right, we're actually making progress, so that we can get to that. Perfect, I shouldn't even say the word perfect, but better conversion rate or more ideal scenario, where we're converting a lot higher, it's very similar to social media, right? It's like, you can try 10 different pieces of creative write, and get different outcomes from all 10. And so it's, it's the same with a website, and these algorithms are really just designed to promote experiences that users like. So, you know, if you think about it from that perspective, you know, when Google does send that traffic test to your site, and they see that you update your content, they're gonna send a little traffic, and those users don't hit the back button. And they really stay on the site, and they're engaging, and they're clicking, and they're, you know, not bouncing away. Any day that any day of the week, that's gonna result in a better ranking for you. Whereas if you had a high bounce rate Google's and be like, well, these, these people really don't like this site, I'm not going to keep sending people to the site, but they're like, well, we sent 10 people here at four o'clock yesterday. And, you know, six had a really good experience, as opposed to like two from the previous page, right, like, now let's start seeing if we spend a little bit more traffic if people continue down this path.

Robert Plank 26:34 And when I, when I first came across that that concept that Google checks the dwell time, or whatever they check when they click from a Google Pay or Google result to your website, and then if you click the back button, they time that and they say, did it take 30 seconds for, for him to give up and go back and see what happened? My mind was blown. And as you and I both know, like, Google checks, all kinds of little factors and things like that, and Google even themselves, they're always improving, and what the heck is Google but like a plain old white web page with just a search box and a button, but you could almost look at the front page of Google five years ago, 10 years ago, and even even though all it is is a search box in the button, you could probably almost tell like, what year or what decade, it was just because they they change up those little things. And like every time you check out on Amazon, every few months, it's changed up a little bit. So even these giants like Google and Amazon, as good as they're doing as much of a dialed in operation as they have, even they themselves are still striving for perfection. So why not guys like you and me, David Right. And so there's been a lot of interesting, kind of like business and marketing lessons in here. And And of all the things that we've talked about what is really clicking for me, based on what you said here is that a lot of this conversion rate optimization stuff, a lot of the search engine optimization stuff, it can be overwhelming. And maybe it might be one of these topics that in order to fully mentally digest that we have to keep on like learning like a little bit about it right? Learn a little bit about PageSpeed page rank, lazy loading above the fold, split testing, they we just keep having to digest that a little bit. And learning about it doesn't necessarily mean that we have to be the one that does it, that we have to fully understand a tool that we even have to make sense out of the split test result. But it's just it's helping to kind of hear these concepts. And we might have heard these concepts before. But then because we're hearing from you again, and again, it's like oh, yeah, I heard a long time ago that I need to be like running some kind of a split tests and testing out my headlines or testing out a hero image or looking at my competitors website and saying, you know, I like how they they had that interface or like how they made the interactive, maybe we could absorb some of that. It's just it helps to maybe revisit some of the things that we have considered, but then didn't follow through on or, you know, kind of gave up on because this is kind of an ongoing process. And maybe these are some of the things that maybe every six or 12 months, we should be looking into implementing some of these things that you have been mentioning. And so if someone says, okay, a lot of the things that David says make sense, and, and maybe this and this is now on my to do list, but I'm thinking well, I'm not even really sure where to start. I don't know if I'll have enough time. I don't know if a hollow through. Do you and your your team, your agency have performed some of these tasks? And how the heck do we find out more information? Where's the website? What are we where we go? What should we know about this?

Speaker 3 29:38 Absolutely. So so if you need a fractionalize team to come in and handle anything from PageSpeed to your split testing, I encourage you check us check us out peaks, digital marketing.com peaks, like the mountaintop plural, digital marketing comm we do a free analysis and audit even if you just have a question you're looking to, you know get some good Our whole mission is, is, you know, how do we provide value and empower your business to succeed, whether that's your team doing it, or our team doing it. And so, you know, if you have some questions and you're looking for some, you know, direction, or you're looking for a Sherpa to help take you up the mountain, check us out at peaks, digital marketing, comm just fill out a contact form. So we'll get in touch with you. And if you're looking for more SEO tips, I'm constantly syndicating social content around digital marketing, SEO conversion based strategies, you can check me out at David A Finberg, on Instagram, Facebook, and we do a little bit of LinkedIn as well. So I really appreciate the opportunity to be on the show, I hope you guys found some value. It is something as you said, Robert, like, if you're you start, start eating the elephant piece by piece, you don't eat it all at once, right. And so I think just being aware of these things, and starting to bring these up in your marketing conversations, and really having that commitment towards maybe over the course of the next year, becoming better at some of these needle movers will, will will, it'll show in the ROI of your campaigns and will also show in the marketing meetings when you are able to review that data. And so, Robert, just, uh, you know, thrilled to be on the show, and really grateful to be here and be able to talk to your platform and connect with your audience. Again, feel free to check us out on the web, if you have any questions and yeah, looking looking forward to, to next time.

Robert Plank 31:31 Oh, fantastic. fantastical, I appreciate having you on David, David A Finberg on social media peaks, digital marketing, calm to find that Sherpa to leave you up the mountain. And what I really like about everything we were talking about here today, David is like, these are kind of like the foundational principles. These are things that, you know, things change, you know, year after year, but five years ago, this was important. 10 years ago, all these things are still going to be important. There's no excuse you mentioned at the beginning about Magento. And I mentioned about WordPress, it doesn't matter what industry you're in what platform you have, you need to be focusing on some of these conversion, these SEO factors that David mentioned, but there's no excuse you're not that special, that you're exempt from the the whims of Google, this is really important if you want to squeeze more juice out of the out of the orange and and maybe triple your conversion rate. So that way, you don't have to triple your traffic, which seems like a way, way more unnecessarily complicated way of doing it, go to peaks, digital marketing.com Go there, check out the blog, fill in the contact form, even just to say hey to David and his team and see if there's something they can do for you. At the very least get a dialogue started. peeks Digital marketing.com. We'll see you there. And thank you David for stopping by and taking the time. I appreciate you. My pleasure. I

Unknown Speaker 32:49 appreciate you too. Thanks, everyone. I

Robert Plank 32:54 do have Why podcast.com forward Slash Free. Go there right now to see what you could be missing in your podcast. Maybe you aren't active enough on social media. Are you writing and broadcasting an email for every episode of your podcast? Do you follow up with your podcast guests? Do you do things to make your podcast interview and content creation easier? Go to do fly podcast.com/free to claim your gift right now.