1010: Making Every Dollar Count: Approach to Strategic Law Firm Marketing with Eric Morgan

Robert Plank 0:06 Hey, and welcome back to the podcast. We're here with Eric Morgan from Morgan and co.com. Now Eric is the President CEO of Morgan and CO and ru advertising. And he takes a strategy first approach to building marketing campaigns that grow call and case volume for his law firm clients around the US. So we're going to jump in and talk about all sorts of things that marketers do incorrectly as far as their strategy, and just how to market whether you have a good budget or a limited amount of money doesn't matter. We can work strategically and work smarter instead of harder. So Eric, glad to be speaking with you.

Speaker 1 0:44 Thanks a lot. I appreciate it. This is these are always fun. So I appreciate the time and the opportunity. Yeah,

Robert Plank 0:51 and it works both ways, right? You should always like three or four ways you show up your audience learn some stuff, I learned a few things. And you even probably get clarity just as far as what you're doing right? And what you should do more of and do less of. And so tell me about it. Tell me about what's your passion and focus these days?

Speaker 1 1:07 You know, just to follow up on do I learn something I do a lot. You know, I taught at Loyola University here in New Orleans for about six years, an advertising program. And it's amazing, even though I was teaching kind of junior senior level classes, and I'm obviously removed from that after almost 30 years in the industry, I still learn stuff, when when I'm talking about it and engaging with people about it. So yeah, I love it. It's great. It's fun, you know, obviously devoted my life to it. But the reality is, you know, in the roof side of what we do, that's our legal, legal division. We help clients grow their, their one their brand, and ultimately their law firm. And I say brand, because the brand is just so important. When you think about all and just not in legal in any industry. You think about Apple, or Disney or ESPN, you know, there's just so much that goes into what the brand stands for. And most important, what that that means to somebody who's going to ultimately use the brand. And so while at the end of the day for law firms, we're trying to make their phone ring and get a new client for the firm's at a, you know, an affordable cost per case that makes business sense, from metric standpoint, we're really concerned about what the brand stands for, and how that makes. Makes sense to a group of people in their community and audience and, and what we're going to say to those people, so that's, that's really what we do on a daily basis for clients.

Robert Plank 2:44 And that's a lot to think about. And it might even be something that we're it's a problem that is not instantly solved, and just maybe can never be solved. And it just requires us always working on the problem. And so some of these things that you've been mentioning so far is, first of all, how important it is to enjoy what you do and have a passion so that way, it sustains you and you devote your life you devote decades to whatever your project is, right, whatever business that you're working on. And then you're also mentioning how important it is to have this whole brands sort of thing figured out, which we take for granted, right? Because Disney has been around how many decades and has how many 10s of 1000s of employees, and that was a heck of a lot of work to get the brand to what it is and have the momentum. And you think about some of these brands where it's kind of a mixed bag like like Twitter, or like Walmart. And when you think about kind of the many downsides there, it's, it's easy to kind of take your foot off the gas pedal and for the brand and like not be as good as it is. And so when these law firms are trying to figure out their brands, like what's even the starting point as far as what to think about because they might be thinking like, Well, how do we differentiate? And how do we not be like the same kind of tired old cliches as everyone else. So if some law firm out there says, Okay, so I'm listening to what Eric has to say, I need to figure out my brands, like what's even the first step here?

Speaker 1 4:10 You know, it's it focuses on the inside, inside of the firm, and whoever's running the firm, if it's a sole proprietor, or if it's a, you know, a management team, what have you, but ultimately, Why do we exist? You know, when you think about brand, it's what people what the customer, the consumer, the client, ultimately can, can perceive or resonate about that, that that entity, and so why does a law firm exists? Yes, there are legal representation and, you know, if it's a matter of a financial than it's, we're gonna get you compensated fairly quickly. But at the end of the day, you know, all brands do that. I mean, all law firms do that, you know, but it's why are we unique and why are we different than the firm down the street? So what do we stands for, you know, we're trying to put pieces back together for these people kind of trying to put their lives back together. And why are we distinctive? And how we approach something? Is it the personal care? Is it the fact that you have great customer service? Is it the fact that, you know, we're going to make your life whole again? And yes, there's, there's, you know, we're going to probably end up in a courtroom with with some legal representation. But what does that really mean for the individual who's going to hire that law firm, and that's, that's what we're digging for. When we help law firms establish what their brand stands for. That's ultimately what we're digging for. Because when you say, hey, like, are under armour, and easy one, you know, we want to shine a light on the dedication and the sacrifice, that's a strategy, that's what the brand stands for, then it's great, who's really concerned with the people that are dedicated on on sacrifice, and the focus, it's like, people who got up at 530, this morning to go to the gym, you know, it's that, and that brand, when you can figure that formula out what that is, you start all of a sudden connecting with people. And then people start listening to what that brand stand for. Because, hey, wait a minute, that's me, they're talking about me, I've been in an accident. And, you know, my life is upside down, I got medical bills, I can't go to work, because I'm injured, my car's just been totaled. And it's not my fault. And I want somebody held accountable, and I want to be compensated, so I get my life back. But that's me, that's, so you have this, this gravitation that starts happening, where you've got people that go, Wait a minute, that brand, there, that's who I want to be with. That's where I want to go. And you think about in the last couple of decades, how consumerism has shaped, and it's not just buying Coke, and Pepsi and whatever, but people, a consumer client has such power in, in how brands, you know, operate so forth, and how they can make a decision. Because there's so many brands out there to pick from these days, you've got to find one that, that you got to find a brand position that resonates with what service and skills you can deliver, and then find that group of people that that's going to scream to, because that's then all of a sudden, the people that are going to hire you, they're going to become your ambassadors, they're going to be word of mouth, they're going to be telling their friends and their neighbors and their relatives to go, Hey, this law firm treated me fantastically, it was first class, they did exactly what they said they're going to do. And God forbid, I have to use a lawyer again, I'm gonna go back to them.

Robert Plank 7:37 So you've given us a lot to think about. And I liked your metaphor here, you're saying to kind of dig deep. And even as you were explaining this, I was thinking like, Oh, what do you think here's like, two levels down and three levels down, you're saying that we need to be thinking about, well, why does the law firm exist? And then that then you're saying there's the differentiator, like out of all the possible like, attributes, key phrases? What are some things that really we want to be known? That's like the top one or two things are like, what are we really known for? And then you drill down even further. And then you think about like, Well, who do you want to help? And how, what's like the before picture? Where are they stuck? What are their problems? And then what story? Can you fit in there, as far as the people you've helped and want to help and get, like, you know, like you told the stories about going in the courtroom and getting your life back, and just what that leads to. And then that way, they kind of come out the other side and have this, this really great experience. And so as you're kind of talking about this, it makes me think that it would probably help someone to maybe now that they have all this in their mind, maybe look at some of these competitors, right, like say, say they're like a, like a divorce attorney, look at these websites of these divorce attorney. And it's easy to look superficially and say, here's a headline and sub headline, but if they kind of keep these things in mind that you're mentioning of like the brand and the messaging and the story than I imagined, someone could kind of look at a handful of their competitors websites, even in other cities, and be like, okay, like, here's like the recurring kind of theme and brand that they're really going for that maybe they would not have noticed without what you just said here. That's

Speaker 1 9:13 exactly right. In fact, it's not just the competitive set, but it's also what you know, think about the dynamics that go into a market that are going on in a marketplace, or what's going on with the economy or what's going on in politics, or you name it, there's, there's dozens of these variables that you want to look at. competitor, obviously, is front and center of one of them and go who's saying what what are they doing, what do they stand for? And is there a space that's empty, that nobody is standing for? Possibly, and that space? Wow, that aligns with exactly why I went to law school. You know, why I wanted to be a lawyer and why I wanted to work at a law firm or start my own law firm, you know, great, I can own that space. And I can stand for this. And it's just me in that space. And then you build this whole marketing strategy around it. And then you, you know, that's how that's that's the foundation. That's where it goes from.

Robert Plank 10:15 And it is impossible to be like too philosophical or academic about this, if you're like getting kind of too deep, and thinking about this a lot to kind of get into the nonsense territory. And just like throwing out like the buzzwords and phrases,

Speaker 1 10:31 from a marketing standpoint, or from an exercise to really hone in on what you're talking about. And

Robert Plank 10:37 just from that initial exercise, just kind of when you're going from nothing to figuring out what what this language is.

Speaker 1 10:45 You don't need to get so philosophical, you don't need to get so academic in, in the exercise. But you do need the discipline to keep digging and digging, you mentioned going down several layers you do because, you know, oh, you know, we represent people? Well, of course, everybody, all lawyers represent people. So you need to you need to have the discipline to just keep going why and asking, and going deeper into why is that even relevant to a possible client, that's going to call the firm and hire that law firm. Because that's really what you want to get to? I don't think you need, you know, it doesn't need to be, you know, philosophical or very academic exercise, it just really needs to ask hard questions of is this meaningful? Is this true? Is this relevant? And can we deliver it? You know, those kinds of kinds of questions? Can we live by this, and can we, you know, run the firm around some of this, because if you say, you're going to be X, Y, and Z, you better be xy and z on your website, on your social, when you're out at a community event that you're sponsoring, you know, a children's giveaway or something, you know, a back to school giveaway, when somebody answers your phone at your firm, you know, when they greet you, when you walk in the door, this is going to be something that you live, literally you live every day, your staff should be living it. So it's less about academic and you know, philosophical, and it's more about, what is it really? And can we live up to this?

Robert Plank 12:19 Okay, and I'm glad we added that and explain that. Because that way, it's not just words, right? That way, it's something that you implement, and that you said that it applies in every aspect of what you do. And you mentioned a few minutes ago here, how it then relates to the marketing campaign. So I imagine that this kind of figuring out the messaging is that first step, but then when it comes time to, as you said, before it gets the phone's ringing, then what happens there? Like what are the steps? Or what this what are these law firms need to consider as far as then applying that to all the marketing?

Speaker 1 12:53 So if it's done well and done, right, it actually spells out a lot of the features and components of the marketing. I mean, it says, this is the strategy, this is what we are, and this is why we're different in why we should go to market with our with our services, legal representation, and then it starts telling you, right, wait a minute, we know what we stand for. Now, we just need to speak that truthfully, because we know we can deliver it. And we're going to speak it to the people who find that most, you know, the most relevant, you know, these are people that are making decisions around those attributes and variables. And then great, well, who are those people? What kind of media channels do they use? Great, we now know that they're, you know, learn tick tock or they're on bus transit, because it's, you know, it's a larger city, and they got a great, you know, commuter system. And then all these things start to fall into place. Now, part of what we do, and branding is just an aspect of it. But designing and building them campaigns and managing them is, is another component of what we do, until you start looking at and go, Okay, this is where the business side comes in the metrics side come in, because once we figure out who we're going to talk to, and how we're going to talk to them, we need to start looking at projections and saying, Okay, we're going to invest a certain amount of dollars into this into this marketing effort. You know, what's the ROI here, because it's not a let's run it and see what happens. It's a, we know who we're talking to. So we can define that audience. And we can actually count how many people there are, that fit that profile in a Houston in a Seattle, in St. Louis and wherever and say, there's this many people we know that this many of them are going to hear it or see it or experience it. This many of them are going to convert they're going to go to a landing page or this many we're going to go to a phone you know make a phone call fill out a form. And from an intake process, this many are going to make it through as a qualified lead to ultimately become a case. Great. We spent this much this is how many become a case. This is your cost per case. So this stuff starts kind of laying itself out when you do it right. And this is how we approach the work because it becomes this, you know, who are we and why do we exist? Brand to, wow, that's relevant to this number of people through these channels. And we predict that this number of them are going to call us. And depending upon the types of cases, we predict, they're going to convert 20 to 35%, or whatever that number is, to become a case. And we invested this money for that campaign. And this is your cases is your cost per case. And this is what it looks like.

Robert Plank 15:36 Okay, and that's a lot, but it's good to fit a lot into a little bit of space. And so what's the kind of the diagram that's being drawn in my mind is, first there's, there's the Why Why do we exist? And then that leads you to the WHO Like, who do you want to bring to you? And then that leads you to the where and where are they hanging out? Are they on Tik Tok or Facebook to run ads or something like that, and then you figure out, then a path to get them to a landing page, new the phone call? And then at that point, it's a math problem where you just say, Well, how much does it cost for us to run these ads versus getting the phone calls and getting them converted into a client into a transaction to sale? And then, and then it all becomes a lot more fun and a lot more easy? And so do when you come across these law firms that you're helping? Are they considering this at all? Like, does this even like exist for them? Or is it like, partly set up for like, what's the before picture because you clearly have kind of this step by step process that you get set up? And sure everyone's different, but you do kind of have the same logic. But what do law firms typically do before you come to them?

Speaker 1 16:45 You know, I think and it's not just law firms, but it's a lot of marketers, and a lot of brands and across a lot of categories. But a lot of them are envy, knee jerk reaction, they see the brand down the street, they see the brand across town, their competitor across town, oh, we're gonna rap, you know, they're, they're doing boss advertising, we should be doing plus advertising. Or if they're on TV, we should be on TV, with very little consideration of if it's right for them, and right for their strategy and right for their brand and right for their audience and right for all these things. So they don't have that understanding. They do know that they want to market or they want to increase the value of their brand in the marketplace. And that they do have a budget, and that they do have this anticipated, like I want more cases every month. Great, you know, but we help kind of dial in more specifically, where it's not just let's try something because the competitors are doing it. Now, some of them are dabbling with it themselves. And they're doing a decent good job and a lot of cases, actually. But there's this, Hey, I'm on Facebook, I'm advertising on Facebook, or I'm doing Google search. And I know my phone rings, and I get some cases. So Google must be it. And then I'm going maybe that's called last attribute last touch attribution. You know, because Google was the last thing that they did before they called you what got them to Google. All right, because you're supporting community organizations and your sponsor this and you're running ads on TV, and you're doing all these things. You short wasn't some of those things that might have impacted their their perception of your brand. That led them to do a Google search that led them to your front door that they ultimately hired you. And that's, that's where I think a lot of law firms are scratching their heads because they're doing all these different things. Right? In some cases, maybe not so right in some cases, but they're trying to figure out what that recipe is in, you know, saying, Alright, I'm doing all these different things. Which one should I do more of and less of, and that's what we do is every week, we're looking at these analytics, going, Wow, we did these couple of things last week with this new creative and these new tactics and these new channels. And we saw externally what's going on in the marketplace. But we got this result. Now, what if we did these slight modifications? You know, it's like dials and levers, you know, let's adjust something. And then oh, wow, look at that impact the next the following week. And so that's where that that, that integration of a campaign comes in. Because what they're doing now is siloed. They're doing Facebook ads. They're doing tick tock. They got a banner ad, a bulletin board or what have you. And they're missing and it's hard, and rightfully so. They're missing it because they didn't you know, they haven't they don't have decades of doing this for other brands. But it's it's hard trying to put it all together and go What's that integration that allows me to say, this is the ratio and the mixture, that that makes my phone ring in the most economical fashion with the greatest ROI.

Robert Plank 20:10 Okay, well, those are some really good insights. And it does two things. For me. Number one, it kind of shows us that there's so much to do. But then the reassuring part of that is that well, it kind of gives us an idea of where to start. And then you think about the guests. So a lot of these, like law firms, but also, you know, companies in general, they just, they see what the competitors are doing. And they copy just that one piece. And so that's kind of accurate and scary. And it's also kind of good in a way, because you figure, well, if some competitor comes along, they're only copying one part of what you do, or that outer layer, and we kind of need to be doing a lot of different things. And we have our best guess about what brings in the results. But we can't always be sure, because you're making me think all the time, like sometimes I'll, I'll go to some website or see some ad and get retargeted on Facebook. And that will lead to me then googling that thing. And then I won't take action. But then two days later, YouTube will show me some video. And I'm like, I know, I didn't search that on YouTube. But because it's the Google Plus the many days later with the algorithm. And so it just goes to show how we need to be kind of marketing in many channels, and then also focus on like the there's like the top tier and the second tier, right? And the second tier is kind of doing all those essentials. And the top tiers where we're pulling all the levers and saying like, Okay, well, we've got our, our SEO, and we are doing our community networking, but then we're like also doing this focus on the Facebook ads. And so it's all important. And you're you're kind of also make showing us that say you're some company, right, and you're doing your E commerce product, you're doing your law firm, and you're focusing on that you learned all these things. And then to also now, in addition to that, put on all these marketing hats and figure out all this PPC not to mention how the industry changes, I can see how some company would really need you to be in their corner and to kind of apply all these things, especially with it all changing, because otherwise you can't even keep up, right? Otherwise, you're just dabbling and falling into that trap of looking at the competitor. So if someone out there says, Okay, I know I need help. And a lot of what Eric's has said, make sense. And it's simple, but it's also practical. And I could definitely use him to help me get to where I need to go. How does some company who's listening to this podcast know if they're a right fit law firm or not? How do they know if they're a good fit for you? And how do they take the next step and find you and take action?

Speaker 1 22:42 You know, I think it's the clients that we work with best are the ones that are eager and hungry to grow their business. And I don't mean obsessive, but they just are committed to we want to get more cases through the door. All right. And we know that the value of marketing can help to help that. So even if you're remotely curious, and you think you might be in that considerate in that in that set of people go to our website, route advertising.com. And that's our Oh UX, or email me Eric at ru advertising.com. And happy to chat I I tell people all the time, call me email me I'm I give more free advice than anybody I know. Just because I love chatting about this stuff. So yeah, look us up through advertising.com. Fantastic

Robert Plank 23:33 grew advertising.com. And as you're mentioning here about your kind of your generosity with the information and the talkativeness. Is there a way for you to kind of tell us about your sort of your your mission statement or this kind of these values that you're mentioning this is that relate to your talkativeness and your information sharing? Yeah,

Speaker 1 23:56 you know, we've been this year earlier this year working on the purpose of the agency. And what we're, we're focused on really is inspiring brands, and the people who lead them. And the interesting part about that is, you know, obviously, we want to grow brands and inspire the brands to do bigger and better things. But the focus is also on the people that lead those brands because we become a part of their team. And we we provide them with information and direction and recommendation and obviously services, marketing services, but it's that that focus that it's not just about growing the law firm and making the phone ring, but it's also about empowering and growing the individuals that lead those law firms and that's what's pretty powerful for us and important for us. Because it's yes, there's a business behind it and there's a you know, market share and all that fun stuff. But there's also a human aspect behind this that people want to succeed and people want to grow, and their staff wants to grow, and the only way their staff can grow as their firm grows, and so humanizing this to a degree that people who lead these brands is a big component of, of, of what we, what we discuss and talk about on a daily basis and kind of keep that at the forefront because it's not just brand brand brand business, business business, its people their human lives that are involved here. Not only not only our clients, but our clients, clients and people who have been injured. Right,

Robert Plank 25:26 yeah, it helps everyone and, and it's leadership, basically, right. It's not just about what you've learned and what you do and what makes you money, but also what you can pass on and help other people kind of pick up the skills and do better and just help everyone else in the world. So this is amazing and wonderful to think about. That's Eric at r o u x advertising.com. And as people are headed over there to ru advertising.com Here, Eric, I always like to ask my guest about a fun quote or lesson that can really help us out that maybe sums everything up. And you've given us so much today and so many different things to think about. But what comes to mind as far as wrapping up our conversation, a quote or lesson that will just hit us really hard right across the face.

Speaker 1 26:12 So good question and one that just popped into my mind is my father My father is a he passed away recently but a retired oncology physician and growing up he always used to tell me Eric, find your niche, find your gimmick, and you know, I meant that in a good way and pursue it as a career. And I love what I do. I enjoy it. The you know, call me anytime I'll chat. But But I think for our clients, it's very fitting it's find your niche and find your gimmick, and then run with it because if you can become distinctive about what you do and the value your brand offers, then you know it all everything else falls into place.

Robert Plank 26:55 I love it. Don't just be an echo, find your niche. Find your gimmick ru advertising.com Eric Morgan, fantastic talking to you.

Unknown Speaker 27:03 Thank you great talk and appreciate the opportunity.

Robert Plank 27:10 Thank you for tuning in to the marketer of the day podcast. marketer of the day is managed by d f y and podcast claim your 12 podcast boosters at Def Why podcast.com/free