1011: Digital Marketing: Principles, Basics, and Challenges with Tim Butler

Robert Plank 0:06 Welcome back to the podcast. Tim Butler is here from innovation visual.com. And Tim is a seasoned marketing professional with more than two decades of experience in sales, marketing and consulting. He's the founder and CEO of innovation visual, which is a well regarded marketing consultancy that has assisted clients across various sectors, including manufacturing, technology, healthcare, finance, professional services, and so much more. So Tim is going to be telling us about digital marketing, all these things from the principles, the basics, but also the changes in the challenges. So Tim, glad to be speaking with you.

Speaker 1 0:44 Oh, wonderful to be on the show. Thank you very much for having me, Robert, really, really pleased.

Robert Plank 0:49 And pleased to have you. And we gave you a little bit of an introduction. But as far as what your current focus is, these days, what's your passion? What really gets you out of bed in the morning? And what are you always thinking about?

Speaker 1 1:03 It comes back to the reason why the business started, I see digital marketing and great digital marketing is all about problem solving. It's, it's about finding how to take somebody from where they are now to where they want to go. And it's, it's a problem solving exercise where you can, you can get in there you can analyze, you can figure things out, come up with a strategy, and then start executing that, and measure and move people from where they are to where they want to be

Robert Plank 1:36 wonderful. And so we all we love solving problems, and going into the problems life is problems, right? Like you think about since the moment you were born, it was where all my meal come from, where are my clothes come from? And in any business we jump in, it's, you know, how do I get customers Hattery get a funnel, how do I, you know, get money coming into the business. And so and then there's all these technical problems. So problems are good. And problems mean opportunity, especially for us entrepreneurs and digital marketers. And so what sort of problem do you see happening these days, like what's really just holding people up lately?

Speaker 1 2:17 Um, I think I think the current one I'm saying a lot of is trying to cut through noise. So there is, you know, a lot of people with COVID businesses that were previously maybe doing a lot of events, or they were doing direct mail, or they were, you know, doing telesales kind of thing, they were forced to move into the digital space. And a lot of them haven't moved back out of that. So there's more noise. Across all of the different sectors, there's more noise. So people's attention is finite. So if they were getting bombarded with digital ads, before, and then they were taking some sales calls, and they were going to some exhibitions and things. Now, that noise online is is even more for them, because they still have the same number of hours on the day and hours online. So the businesses are competing for the same attention. But there's more of them out there. And and I think you've got that factor. And then you've also got this factor with generative AI, allowing marketers to create content at scale more rapidly than they were previously. And that in itself then creates more if you like, noise in the market. So it's a really interesting one in terms of a challenge at the moment, because you've got to, I think, do better to cut through.

Robert Plank 3:48 And you know, you're putting a finger on something that I haven't thought about this as maybe as much as I should have, because you're making me think that at like the near the tail end of the pandemic and kind of were are now I was thinking like, Well, what happened, what changed because I feel like something really changed. And I think it's these two things that you're mentioning, right? Number one, these businesses that moved online, and they didn't move back off. So now we have all these competitors. And then number two, this whole Rise of the generative AI. And I was just thinking a few minutes ago that with a generative AI like I use it every day, and I think that for me, it's kind of made. It's like increased the speed. And it used to be like if I was stuck as far as like, what to name something or what to do about something, I would say, Oh, I'll think about that later in the week. And now I'm just like, nope, is the AI and I'm on it today. And I do that kind of at the same time worrying that everyone else is or a lot of other people are at the same fast pace as me right where I used to be able to wait three to five days to like, make a decision or do something and I'm like, I can only wait like three to five hours because everyone else is kind of piling on. And so as far as like this company that that you've built and you've grown Like what has changed for you like sure there's there's more competitors and more noise. And so what have you done or helped your clients do to rise above the noise?

Speaker 1 5:10 Well, I mean, in many ways to move to digital helped us It increased our growth even more and turbo charge that because people were coming to us with exactly this thing, what do we do online? Tim? How do we, how do we get through it? In terms of how we've helped the client, because I think that's, that's the primary thing. And it's interesting you say about, like, wanting to make that decision faster just dipping into AI and, and coming up with a solution and moving on. And sometimes, actually, the solution is to take a breath and actually pause for a moment and go back to marketing, fundamentals, marketing basics of what do our audience really want to hear? What What will influence them to move forward, because a lot of people get hung up about engagement metric, particularly if they're, you know, they're doing things like email or social and they talk about engagement metrics, open rates, or likes or, you know, shares and things like that. But actually, the real metric that marketeers need to focus on is influence, it's the moving somebody along the journey from, they don't know us at all, as a business through to their a very happy, loyal customer. And marketers job is to move people along that. And sometimes to cut through the noise, you have to just take a breath and actually say, it's not about the volume, it's not about the speed, it's actually about the clarity of message. It's about making it so that when the consumer, whether that be a b2b consumer, or whether that be a consumer buying for themselves, they actually stopped they think and they go, oh, yeah, okay, I get that. And I think that the generative AI thing that you describe is, it's, it's a danger that people will just barrel forward and create noise. And they won't, they won't actually impact influence. And that down the line is what's going to turn people off their brand. And so there's another piece where it's actually building the quality of what you do, will build the reason why people want to engage with your brand. And then with that desire to be engaged with the brand, they're then going to choose to listen to you. So then you're you're cutting through the noise, because they want to hear from you. And that's really the golden ticket that we want to get to.

Robert Plank 7:49 This is interesting to think about just that difference between barreling forward as you put it and becoming more advanced and speeding up versus kind of going back to the basics and kind of like just like instead rounding up everything that you're doing and saying, well, there are all these kind of techniques and tools and tactics that I could kind of barrel forward for. And those are okay, but what are those actually accomplishing? And it is fun to geek out on split testing, the ads are on looking at the conversion rates. But then if you get too far over the cliff there, you say, Well, what's, what's the point of this, it's to move people kind of through my funnel, and to increase my influence and all these other things. And so it's kind of like two different methods of thinking, and you're making me think that like, one time I tuned in to someone's webinar, and I, there was a marketer, like I really enjoyed following. And then I got to the point where one day I tuned in, and like 30 seconds, and he was like editing code and playing around with email messaging. And I'm just like, it's great to be advanced. But there's, there's no context, there's no simplicity. And I was just like, trying to hang on for dear life just to follow this person. And I ended up like never going back. And so there's definitely something to say to you saying that, well, I have all this knowledge, and I have all these advanced techniques, but how about just like getting some clarity, getting some simplicity, getting some focus into the basics and what this is all accomplishing. And so along those lines, and these companies that you help, like, what are they missing these days? As far as the fundamentals like is it that but on asking these deep questions? Are they not measuring? Do you not have the landing pages like what's out of all the things that could be missing? Is there like a top one or two things that are just need to be filled in lately?

Speaker 1 9:39 I would say because we tend to work with our clients very long term. Our current clients, we should by the nature of working with us, we should be making sure that they're doing all the right things so so so that they're not tending to have too many problems. But on the new ones when we're going in and when we're talking to prospective clients, and we're looking at what they doing it and how they've been operating. I think one of the fundamental things is good data. And what I mean by that is not just lots of data, but I mean good data to understand what you're measuring why you're measuring it. And are you measuring again, what is important to your marketing. So if you are targeting certain ICPs, your personas are a certain thing. I, you know, I see people who don't even measure that their ICP is, you know, this age group, and maybe that's this sort of job title. And then they don't actually measure how many people what percentage of people fall into that ICP when they're doing, you know, a paid campaign. And they're just, they're just talking about that, and you're like, Well, hold on a minute. Can you actually measure that? Are you actually pulling that data in and things so and then data mismatch between, you know, getting hung up about, you know, conversion rates, and going out, you know, the conversion rate on this creative, really good? Okay, well, we'll run more of that, but not actually following it through the chain of value. And so data measurement should follow the chain of value. And it should tell you about what decision you make as a marketeer is best influencing revenue and profitability, and a separate revenue and profitability because I was talking over in Vilnius in Lithuania, a few weeks back. And we, you know, I was talking to them, and I was saying about, like, the difference between revenue and profit is really important, because it was an E commerce conference. And, you know, with things like Black Friday people, you know, give away these deals, and I said, the revenue for Black Friday, when you're giving away, you know, 25, or 40% discount, that's not the same as the revenue that somebody's buying from you, you know, in October paying full price for the product. And I think that it's really important when it comes to data and metrics, people understand the whole value change. And they think about what underlies that data. And I think that if you have to give one thing that people come to us with, that's, that's a really good starting point, because you need that to move forward. And then I suppose it's very diverse, the next kind of bit for lots of them, because we're dealing with both consumer businesses, and we're dealing with b2b businesses, we deal with, you know, one off purchases, subscription purchases, we deal with you, enterprise software technology companies. So the next part of the chain can be, can be very, very different. Okay,

Robert Plank 12:38 well, so this is kind of hammering the point home as far as we need to be thinking about these basic questions, and maybe revisiting these things that maybe we haven't asked ourselves in a few years, right, asking about that, that customer avatar, and that age group and their, their needs and wants and frustrations. And just going back and saying, Well, is the marketing and the messaging and the ads running? Does that all overlap with those, those decisions that we made years ago? And maybe not if if we just let ourselves get caught up in the day to day and all the distractions? So you're saying, go back to basics, even though it might be a little dull and boring and repetitive, but it's really essential to have that solid foundation? And you're also kind of telling this, so we need to be kind of thinking these things through? And like, how do we actually implement, like, if someone says, you know, if I, I've kind of used my existing thinking and my existing team, and they need to reach out to a company such as yours to jump in and dive in? Like, What's the process like that? Do you do like an audit? You mentioned about being long term, sort of, what's the next step here? Yeah,

Speaker 1 13:48 we, we often do an audit for new businesses in terms of they come to us with the problem set, but really, to uncover all of the things that could change that, that needs them being on board and becoming a client, if you like, audits can cover certain areas, because even with our sort of in depth, kind of martech audits where we'll look at people's technology stacks and how they're using them, and that goes all the way from that data measurement that I'm talking about through to things like how they're applying marketing automation, and their structures in their data systems and how they're talking to each other. You know, that's a that's a significant project in itself. But as an organization, we can touch upon everything from CRO SEO, all the way through to things like marketing, automation, you know, website optimization, paid media and things. So we we very much take an individualistic view to the conversations we have with prospective customers. And I think the important thing is to listen a lot for us. It's a big point, that we listen to what they're saying. To us, and we can add value just by listening and then reinterpreting because often these people, as you say that they've been doing the same thing, maybe for some time, and having that outside pair of eyes, just questioning them and saying, Okay, you say you're doing this, because of that. Let's dig into this a little bit more, let's actually look at that, see why that's happening? And understand it. So yeah, we're, we're very hands on high touch, there's no, there's no formulaic approach to solving these problems in a great way.

Robert Plank 15:35 Okay, and so I definitely agree with you 1,000%, as far as the need to have these outside eyes looking in, and it's kind of like, you know, if your, your garage is full of a bunch of stuff, and and clutter, and you've been looking at it the whole time, there are things that are invisible to you. And if someone just came in and cleaned a few things up and rearranged a little bit, they could see things that they have just been invisible to you just because of the repetition and the way you've been used to doing things or things you've been used to seeing. And so you're saying that we need to have good data, not just a lot of data, and that there and there's that there's value in if you're a company of any kind that is stuck, it helps to explain the problem to someone here like Mr. Tim, and to kind of just say, like, put it into words. And then also there's on the other receiving side, there's, you know, when Tim is, is listening to your problems, it's a lot like when a friend comes to you for advice, or just explains your situation. And it's like when someone lists things that are wrong in their life, it's so out of whack, right? Because you say, you know, you're so stressed out about this, and it doesn't even this could be easily fixed, or this isn't even a problem. And then you're not stressed enough about that. And like that's the real thing to focus on. We've all been there in a conversation of just like getting that additional perspective. And knowing what needs to be focused on, especially as you're saying, these marketing basics, these fundamentals, and knowing who you're serving, and knowing what you're all about. And just knowing like what you do good and focusing on that. And so you've given us so much to think about him. And if if we were to kind of assign like a little bit of homework to people, right? If they could do like some really quick task just to either solve a quick problem or identify the hurts, and then they could then come to you after doing that homework assignment, Does anything come to mind just as far as like, a marketing basic or fundamental that someone can just like jump into with their business?

Speaker 1 17:41 That's an interesting question in terms of the homework, so something that would then they can bring to us and say, Hey, I've looked at this, and I've done that, what I would say is, I would I would get them the homework should be looking at where they are now. And where where they feel they deserve to be and they want to be by the end of the year. And then can they join the two dots together from where they are now to where they're going to be in terms of how they're going to drive that additional demand in their business. If they can't see how they're going to join those two dots, they should, they should get in touch because that's what we do. We help businesses grow, we help businesses thrive. Now, if they do that homework, and they, you know, they only want to add 5% or 10% to their turnover, and they know that just going to run a few more paid ads. That's great. They don't need to talk to us. But if they're looking at it, and they're an ambitious business, and they're going, you know, how are we going to get 25% more growth, maybe management have only given us 15% budget, maybe they've seen you know, they've seen a downturn in their, in their effectiveness of their site, or their conversion rates been dropping, or whatever it might be. And they don't see how they can navigate that journey between A and B, then then we're the people to give a call out to and and we'll come in and we'll help them map that journey out. And we'll help them deliver that journey in the areas that they need support. Excellent. I

Robert Plank 19:16 think that's a wonderful exercise for all of us to take, right? And it's it's something that kind of requires this recurring attention. And it's easy to set a goal once and then forget it and then get back into drifting mode. And we need to get back on track. We need to figure out where we're at now, what are current priorities and a couple of metrics? And then where do you want to be by the end of the year? And then compare those those kind of numbers and metrics and say, how do you get from point A to point B and I think that can give someone a lot of clarity in in like five different ways right there is where you are now there's where you want to be and there's how you will get there. And all those things can be adjusted, but at least get that figured out and in writing and that's step one and then step two is to contact I'm at innovation visual.com. And so is that a good place to go, Tim, as far as wins, they do the homework assignment, and they come to you. And there's just to have a chat, what's a good way to reach out and take the next step? Yeah,

Speaker 1 20:12 I think going to the website is is a great next step. And I love the way you sum that up there. Because it's like that famous saying it's like, failing to plan is planning to fail. So that's why everybody should do that piece of homework. And equipped with that bit of homework, if they come to the innovation visual.com site, there's there's forms on there, there's the chat flow, but people can reach out to me on LinkedIn. And when you put out the notes, they can, maybe you could put the link to my bio in LinkedIn, they can, they can get on there, and they can contact me through that. But the website is a great starting place, because then you can learn a bit more about us and the fact that we are working with clients all across the globe, and we love working with, with clients in the States as well. I was lucky enough to live in your, in your great country for a short amount of time and thoroughly enjoyed it. So I always love coming back over to visit clients in the US.

Robert Plank 21:07 Wonderful. And so people should reach out to you that way, you have that opportunity to jump in and solve their problems, which as we said in the beginning is what it's all about. And that website is innovation visual.com. And then on LinkedIn, Tim Butler, and as you said, Tim will put that link in the show notes, but just on the off chance someone's

Speaker 1 21:26 got the 101 I think is the is the is the URL but with no notes make it easy. Yeah,

Robert Plank 21:32 Tim Butler one on one and we'll have the link and I think when I was finding you on LinkedIn, there's a few Tim Butler's and I searched like Tim Butler innovation. So because your company's innovation visual on down here that way, but either way, you'll find a way to find Tim innovation visual.com to get that conversation started and make it a priority. And as we're wrapping up our conversation here, Tim, it's time to put you on the spot by asking you for a quote or lesson that maybe applies here or has really helped you. So putting you on the spot what comes to mind as far as a quote or lesson.

Speaker 1 22:08 I would say a lesson would be you, you'll never know it all. You always have to keep learning when it comes to digital marketing, because things move so fast. So never never stop learning. I

Robert Plank 22:22 love it never stop learning. And we've said in our conversation here today. Sometimes learning means revisiting and going back to the basics because you forgotten things or it just it's easy to get hung up and all the the advanced AI things Yeah, all the bright, shiny object and say, Well, how does that bright shiny objects connect back to the fundamental and sometimes it does, but relearning may also sometimes be relearning and revisiting. So never stop learning. And your very next step as far as you're learning is to figure out where your business is that where you want to be and go to innovation. visual.com So Tim Butler, fabulous speaking with you.

Unknown Speaker 23:01 Yeah, Robert, thank you very much for having me on.

Robert Plank 23:08 Thank you for tuning in to the marketer of the day podcast. marketer of the day is managed by d f y and podcast claim your 12 podcast boosters at Def Why podcast.com/free