1491: The Rise of Humanness: Mastering AI, Uncertainty, and Personal Growth with Author and Coach Michael Schindler

Robert Plank 0:01 Vision, understanding, clarity, adaptability. You might have heard of this. It's called VUCA. These are the core human superpowers. And Mr. Michael Schindler is here, and he's back on the show to talk about his book, The Rise of humanness, the VUCA Max system for expanding human value in the age of AI, Mr. Mike Schindler, he's a visionary strategist, a highly acclaimed author, and he is a high performance coach who helps leaders and organizations not just survive but dominate in today's AI accelerated, high stakes environment. So let's talk about it. It's a crazy world AI's and everything we have to navigate it. Mr. Mike's here to help us. So, Mr. Mike, great seeing you again.

Michael Schindler 0:45 Yeah, good to see you too. Robert, yeah, great. Thanks for having me back on. Always a pleasure to see you and get combat back up.

Robert Plank 0:52 Heck, yeah, and, and, I mean, aI mean, I use it. Used to be I'd use it every day. Now I use it like morning, noon and night, right? Use it to strategize and to take all this information and and distill it down and have it ask me questions, I'm trying to do my best to make use it to make me smarter instead of dumber, and to use it to move faster and get problems solved instead of adding to the complexity, which I'm sure is like a universal problem, right? Just like I'm sure when pocket calculators came out. People were like, well, how do I make sure I don't just spend all day playing around with it? How do I use for something productive? And so I'm here to talk to you about that. And so what has you excited? What's been going on last year or two since we last saw each other?

Michael Schindler 1:34 Well, yeah, I mean, well, we came out with a third book, The Rise of humanists in the age of AI really, it's a book about mastering uncertainty, chaos, fast moving times, which I think we all know we're living in, you know, if you look at the data, you know, I think every day or every other day, there is new movement in technology, and that is crazy, right? And so the human brain is trying to master all this, and people are getting overwhelmed. I mean, if you look at the data, over 70% of people polled, out of 1000s of people said that they had mental health anxiety or some form of mental health issue. That was really, they were really kind of looking at the future in a dystopia way. And so what we decided to do in this book is really help people command who they are, which is human, and there's nothing greater than being a human. And there's great debate about, you know, are we going to be taken over by the Terminator, or will the rise of humanists really dominate the planet? And I am one in the camp of saying, Listen, we are going to have to master AI so that we we remain the master of the planet. And so to your point, I believe that AI can be used to elevate who you are as a human. But this is Robert, where we have been working with people, is coaching them on how to use discernment and how to be wise in how they use it. And I think that's the important piece, is you can't just trust what AI always tells you, sometimes it hallucinates, sometimes it wants to please you, and so you've really got to know how to prompt it, how to understand what it's telling you, and how to it's almost like being back in debate class. You know, for those of us who went through debate class in high school, I mean, it's, it's really about understanding, how can I push this technology to pull more information out of me that helps me become stronger mentally.

Speaker 1 3:25 I like it. And you mentioned debate class, the only experience I had was like, I think in like, eighth grade, they did some kind of, like, mock Supreme Court thing. And it's like, you get into debate and there's like, your it makes your imagination go crazy with the maps and the shapes, and you're saying, well, here are the boundaries, and here's this thing that they're saying. And what can I say, something that's like a negative or like, something that's kind of countering this, just to make I make sure, like, I say, Hey, here's what we're talking about, but here's what it just barely isn't, and it's and then you get to the point where it's like the argument or the language is cooked enough, right? You get your doneness, you get your book chapter, your blog post, your social media posts, you get to the answer. And it's like, for me, that's something I'm really trying to hang on to. Is not getting stuck in the playing around with but being like, hey, what's my goal? What am I getting to? And it seems like, as far as you helping people and these leaders and getting to where they want to go, seems like that's important. And so what's the kind of the goal that people are trying to get to with your help with AI? Is it like a matter of, like a, like a personality profile or communicating or strategy, or what is the AI getting them?

Michael Schindler 4:36 Yeah, well, it's a combination, right? So I use AI as almost like my assistant, so having another great mind in the room. Now, granted, this great mind is far smarter than I am, but the difference is I know how better to relate to humans, and so when we're coaching people through it's usually about helping them identify who am I in this crazy in. Environment like, what is my mission? What is my purpose? What does it mean to be me? And so we work with them to discover that, to unpack that, to design the eights kind of go from an old story to a new story. And I don't care if it's like job change, I don't care if it's leaving the military. I don't care if it's leaving a relationship. It's all about we're going to help you unpack what it means to be your true self and how AI comes into that is we'll use AI to go ahead and record all those events, to go ahead and put our notes together. And then I'm able to go through those notes and pull out certain specific aspects that I can then give the individual right the client and say, here's a part that we're going to unpack together, right? Because what we found is, even though people do talk to AI, and oftentimes they're even more honest with AI than they are humans, because there's no perceived judgment or shame, but the difference is, is, as humans, we can bring relatable stories that are real, not fabricated, right? And so as humans, we relate to authenticity. And so we can design game plans with AI, and then we can bring authenticity to the relationship, relationship with the human. So that's how you combine those two, is you get them working together for the benefit of the client,

Robert Plank 6:20 I like it, and it seems like we're maybe almost talking about just like, kind of, kind of going, like, back and forth with it, right? And, like, just last night I was playing around with, I was like, Well, what are my what are my values, what's my mission. I was talking back and forth with. I dumped in some of my like, LinkedIn profile, personality results. And I was like, ask me a few multiple choice questions, or ask me a few keyword questions. And I was like, Let's go five rounds, 10 rounds. And then I made a cannabis and I edited that, and I said, Well, let's kind of build more on this section. And I felt like I was if I were to just try to slog it out with a blank Word document, it would take months. It would just kind of slowly inch along. But with the AI, it feels like there's like more momentum where you can just kind of say, hey, let's kind of hash it out. Let's go back and forth. Let's kind of throw the baseball with the catcher's myth, back and forth. And then once we make some stuff, then I'll kind of slow back out, and I'll look at it, and I'll be like, Whoa. I'm like 80% on the way there instead of 10% on the way there. So it seems like the way you're talking about it with the tag team has given me flashbacks to just last night of saying, like, well, it's it's faster, but I'm not going to let it just go and take it and make something crazy. I'll take it for a while, and then I'll stop and I'll examine what there is, and then pick up, up again.

Michael Schindler 7:40 Yeah, 100% and that's exactly what you want to do, right? Is you want to use AI as, really, what we would say, you know, the War Room, right? It's got, you got to look at, you know, it's got an IQ of well over 400 so it's super smart. So it's your assistant that's smarter than you, and you really do treat it that way, I believe, is don't take everything, it says for face value. Say no, no, yeah, I think your approach, Robert was spot on. You say no, no, I want to unpack this area of this conversation now, right? And you begin to unpack that area, and it will begin. What happens is it begins to stimulate your brain in other areas. And that's the beauty of it. That's where we're, we're, I say we're raising our human value when we do that, because we're being prompted, okay, one operating system from another operating system, and our operating system is elevating based on the prompts we got from AI. And so I think that's where people need to understand, is we operate on a specific operating system, and so as humans, and our goal is to elevate that right, change and grow and develop. And I think AI is a great tool that can help people do that. So you don't want to replace your operating system with AI, right?

Speaker 1 8:56 Yeah, you want, want to improve what you have and have this better perspective. And I like how you say, where you might start off thinking about this over here, but then when AI flushes out, you're like, hey, now I'll turn my brain to this over there. And it feels like you're making me realize, like, sometimes I feel like there are sessions where I feel like it's like a waste of time, right, where I kind of generate something I'm like, Ah, maybe I'll get I'll try this again later. There's other times where I'm like, Man, I'm really, I'm really thriving here. I'm really getting stuff figured out. And what I'm realizing talking to you right now is it's when, when there's like, the yin and the yang, right? And there was like, the AI does all the stuff, it has all this knowledge, but then it doesn't have me or the story, or just there's a missing piece, and when my brain fills the whole of that missing piece. I'm like, Cool, now we're making it work. Now we're working together. And I'm curious about, like, your own recent struggles, or ahas, like, where has AI been maybe helping you in some of these unexpected ways?

Michael Schindler 9:55 Yeah, no, I think you know, for me, it's really been strategy. Oftentimes. It's, it's two areas. Is, one is when I need clarity with a client, you know, and if I've got AI that is, you know, really taking notes and summarizing those notes, and then I go back and review those that helps bring clarity to it, because back in the day, I used to have to type all my field notes, right? So I'm, I'm and I know I'd be missing things, and AI is actually really good at capturing those, and then I can go back and review. So that's beautiful. If I'm working on, you know, different startups and I'm looking at different strategies, the beautiful part of that is, AI is really good at, you know, I can put the frameworks together based on my experience, and then in the middle of the night or the shower talk, you know, when you're sitting there and your brain's kind of free and clear, and you're, you're it's your mind's racing, and I'll have these aha moments, and I'd like, I need to incorporate this. How do I incorporate this and still achieve this result? I can go back to AI and I can, I can use it as that smart person, right? And say, I now want to take the framework we've designed, I want to incorporate this aspect of the plan, but I still need to achieve these results. So how do I, how do I bridge that gap? And you know, I mean, oftentimes it took me, to your point, weeks or months to figure that out, and now I can review it and go, Oh, that's actually pretty smart. Yep, I could do that, but I would tweak it this way. So again, it becomes a sounding board for me that freed up probably weeks of time. And it, you know, people say, you know, AI is just going to replace everything. I don't think so. Like, I will spend, you know, on some of the plans that we do. I'll spend a couple of hours back and forth with AI right now, granted, it might be a couple hours with AI, and that actually couple hours saved me probably three weeks. You know what I'm saying. So it's a time efficiency. It definitely, I believe it adds value to people's lives, but you've got to know how to master it. And that's, that's the piece that people, I think, are forgetting. They either fear it or they go so far into it that they allow AI to replace their operating system. And I'm saying you can't let that happen either, right?

Robert Plank 12:09 It has to be something that you master, and it we've all seen the bad AI, right? We've seen the posts or the AI slot videos from like, it's we clearly know that's AI. So it's like, how can you say that this thing's such poor quality, but it's also at the same time, so good that it will take over. And so you're saying that, like, we need to master, and it seems like it's a skill to be developed. And like you reminded me, like when I was a teenager, someone said, think of as many words in three minutes that start with the letter C, and you're writing, you know, like cacophony, car, cat, and then you end at three minutes. But then the next day, your brain's still thinking of the sea words, like, Hey, that was a link for three minutes. Why are you still doing it? Because, like, with what you train your brain to do, it just kind of keeps delivering for you. And I feel like it took me, like, a few months or years to get this intuitiveness that you're talking about, where you're in the shower, you're like, oh, I need to talk to the AI about that. And so when you get these leaders using AI as a tool, and maybe they've been using it wrong, or have it hasn't been part of their every day like it, are there growing pains? Or do you think is there a period of time for them to get up to speed with this?

Michael Schindler 13:18 Oh, for sure, yeah. And I think, people should, you know, whether it's through us or there's, you know, many people out there that are teaching, AI certainly is, yeah, it'll take you some time, and it's practice. It's like anything else, like if you're starting a new sport or a new class, right? I mean, at first it could be a little overwhelming, and it takes time, and it takes practice, and as you begin to use it and practice more with it, you'll become more proficient with it. You'll know how to prompt it. You'll know where it challenges you and your thinking. But I just encourage people just take it in baby steps. It's okay, like it's, you know, it's, it's like taking on a new sport, or a new, you know, a new, a new knowledge base that you want to explore, right? Like, a new, you know, new class. So, yeah, it does take time, but it doesn't have to take you a lot of time, right?

Speaker 1 14:14 Just, yeah, make it develop the small habit and ease into it. And, and so some of these ideas you've been talking about, it's like, you know, you do a lot of podcasts, or you talk to people about business or leadership, and you get kind of the similar ideas coming back up again and again. You're like, oh, this is important. And this idea of, like, figuring out your your mission and vision and values, so that way you kind of have that solid and then when you come across other people, you know, like that person's not for me, or that person is for me. Like, I used to not take that seriously because it's a lot of like, jargoning language. But then AI comes along and it's like, hey, I can kind of spar with it, and it can help me create something. And I can look at it at the end and be like, okay, that doesn't sound like me. Take that out. It does sound like me. And now I can. To get past the the business he speak, and it seems like an amazing tool. And my understanding is that you kind of you help leaders and veterans and people like that, like use some of these tools to figure out their next mission. So can you tell us about that? Like, if someone says, Okay, I'm not really sure where I am in life or where I want to go. And I need some of this clarity that you discuss. Like, yeah, what's that all about? Or, Who have you helped?

Michael Schindler 15:26 Yeah. So, I mean, you know, certainly we've put over 7000 people through our program, so a lot of people through our program, and where we start to your point is clarity. Like, you know, oftentimes people are in some form of life transition. They get out, they don't know what to do next. They're kind of, you know, deer in headlights. And they're like, golly, I know I got to do something, but I don't want life to be miserable. And what the studies show, like, Gallup poll shows like 70% of people are just miserable in their jobs, right? Like some people are just brain dead at 25 waiting for their bodies to catch up, and at 50, they just can't wait for retirement. Now, with the economy shifting and everything going on, they're like, will ever retire? And so people are are many people are disheartened when you look at, you know, the studies and so where we step in as we go, Okay, we are going to gain clarity. The first step is, what does it mean to be you, mentally, physically, spiritually, relationally and financially? What does that mean? We're going to design the eights. Why do I say eight on a scale? We're one to 1010. I believe people are in heaven. They're hanging out there with God. They're having a great time. And aid is like Utopia on Earth, if you can get there. But let's design that like, let's if you had your best day mentally. What does that look like for you? And even that prompt, like prompting your operating your human operating system, with that question, what does it mean to have my best day mentally? Oftentimes people freeze so like, I don't know what it means. And I'm like, I know, but that's where we're going to start, and we're going to do that in five areas of your life. And if it takes us a week, great. If it takes us two weeks, that's fine too, but that is your operating system, and if we don't clear that up first, it doesn't matter how many leadership programs you take, it doesn't matter how many books you read, because you're putting programming on an operating system that is dysfunctional. Does it make sense? So we've got to clear up your operating system, first get clarity around there. And once we have that, then we can go into what's called the Rule of five, which is understanding, you know what, where are five areas I'm going to add value? Or where, or how is this project, or how is this person going to add value to my life in five areas, in these five areas, and where are they not going to add value? Right? And then we have from some frameworks that we can operate on. But the problem is, most people don't deal with the hard conversation first, which is those five areas, mind, body, spirit, relationships and finances. And if you don't clear that up first. I don't care how many you know, we spend billions of dollars, like 360, $6 billion on leadership programs. And what they found that only 25% are effective. Why are they effective? They're effective because they deal with the human operating system. And that's we talk about. We talk about taking the human operating system from like human operating system, 1.0 to human operating system, 10.0 we get you there, and then you can begin to master all the other things in your life

Speaker 1 18:29 and build a proper foundation. What a concept, right? Building on on rock instead of sand, and of getting some of these things fleshed out, and like we've heard of some of these things, like the life wheel, or you're giving me flashbacks too. Back when, remember, like early, like first year or two of chat GBT, people would share props, like they still do, but I used to see prompts left and right, and I saw one where it was like reversing, so it would say, hey, now you're the human and I'm the AI, so you ask me the questions. And it's always kind of fun like to think about, well, what are the what's the new perspective, or what's the new approach? And so I can definitely see how, if someone's been frustrated or not been considering some of these foundational questions they come to you, they get some of these items figured out, written out, set in stone, so to speak. And then they can move on to their self improvement, or improving others, or helping out their organization. And so it's such a cool idea, and you've already shared with us all these amazing concepts, but you're the star of the show here, and we only have a few minutes left, so I want to make sure we focus on what's important to you. So what is the missing question in this conversation? What should I be asking you about all this? I just don't know what you're asking.

Michael Schindler 19:44 Yeah, I think what you should be asking is, who does this relate to? Right? You know, because we talk about these things all the time, like people are like, how do I know if this this is effective? How do I know if I need something? And I would tell people that you know you need something when you have that empty and. In your heart, right? Like you might be pursuing money, or, you know, you might be, you know, substance use or something trying to fill a hole in your soul, if you ever have somebody, if or if that's your one of your listeners, like, man, no matter what I do, I still feel like I have a hole in my soul. Then stop. I would encourage people to just stop and say, Okay, I obviously needed to start addressing my own human operating system. So this really does apply to many people, because transition kind of hits all of us differently. Some people master it, and some people are overwhelmed by it. And I would just say, if you have that angst, then you know, check us out. You know, I and I think, you know, I would encourage every one of your listeners, Robert, to just be curious. You know, people say, Mike, what's one of your favorite quotes? And I'll tell them, you know, it's one of my favorite quotes is be quick to listen, slow to speak. And I know that seems odd, because we've been doing a lot of talking on a podcast, right? But, but in life, it really is, when you are in a room, be quick to listen, slow to speak, and you will learn so many things, not only from other people, but certainly about yourself too. You'll learn things that you like and you'll learn things that you don't like just by listening. And so I just encourage people, especially in moments like we're in this chaotic 21st Century, is don't it would do, do, be quick to listen. Don't be so quick to speak. So yes,

Speaker 1 21:30 and I see the value in listening and in curiosity and taking it in, because if you just talk, and I'm glad the same old stuff will what value is that providing versus learning something new or reinforcing something, that's where the real magic happens. And so I know that you help these veterans and these business leaders, but how does someone know if they're a right fit for you? If they've been saying, man, a lot of these things about, like, AI and self development, it's really like getting me excited about, how do I I'm having the imposter syndrome. How do I know if the book is for me or if the organization is for me?

Michael Schindler 22:06 Yeah, they just go to our website, you know, like it's VUCA max.com and you know, they can get a 30 minute free consult, and we will determine whether or not we're a good fit. I mean, we hand select our clients. So, you know, there's, and I hate to say this, but there are some people that we we choose not to work with, not because we're mean or they're bad. It's just that we realize we're probably not a great fit. And so we want to be sure that, you know, the two parties are both going to show up and be just as excited to take on this mission of discovery. Okay? And I think that's really important. I mean, it's, you know, like therapy, you always got to find a good counselor. You got to find a good therapist, one that fits right. That's no different than when you're elevating your own human operating system, because you need to find a good fit. And so we look for fit first, and if there's a good fit, then we'll explore, and if there's not a good fit, then we'll make recommendations. I think the book is for everybody. The rise of humanness in the age of AI. I think that book is certainly for everybody. It's got some great life lessons in there. It's got some great tools that people can apply, where they could just even apply to self help if they wanted to. So I would recommend people just reach out. Wonderful.

Speaker 1 23:22 It's amazing just how far AI is coming in this last three years. Hasn't it like, it went from being like a predictive auto correct text and oh, I guess I'll use it to, like, create some articles, some blog posts, but then it's like, it can analyze for you. It can be a sort of quasi therapist in itself, a self help tool mirror back at clarity if you use it correctly. And so we said that book is called The Rise of humanness, the VUCA Max system for expanding human value in the age of AI. And in this book, you'll join authors Mike Schindler and Chris Sean Nolan on a journey of rediscovery that will transform the way you navigate the complexities of modern life, forge meaningful relationships and lead with confidence. So if you're one of these people that's seeking practical tools for personal growth, leadership and empowerment in an increasingly AI driven world, then Michael Schindler's the rise of humanness. The VUCA Max system for expanding human value in the age of AI is something you want to read and pay close attention to to get use this AI tool to further your self development. And if you're one of these people that is ready to take this next step or just explore possibilities, it's VUCA max.com is this website where they talk about unleashing the ultimate version of yourself to transform, transcend and triumph. You can go there and click the Get Started button and see it and fill out the form see if it makes logical sense to pursue this further to get this mastering volt. Uncertainty, complexity and ambiguity in a massively accelerating, exponential landscape. And so I know that we mentioned some websites, we mentioned some amazing quotes and lessons and all those sorts of things. Mr. Mike, do you have any final parting words for us as we go and check out these amazing AI resources?

Michael Schindler 25:18 You know, I would just say, don't try to solve the big picture. Just focus on the on the micro wins. You know, there's life can be pretty overwhelming, and if we try to eat the elephant all at once, you know, we oftentimes it seems impossible. So I just really encourage people during this time is tackle the one thing that you can do right now. Start there and build on that

Robert Plank 25:47 awesome, amazing micro wins milestones one day at a time. It's time to get to it. It's VUCA max.com and the book by Mike Schindler is the rise of humanness. Go check it out right now. You'll be glad you did. And thanks Mr. Mike, for being a return guest and helping me pack a lot of info into a short podcast. I really appreciate what you brought to us. So thank you very much.

Michael Schindler 26:08 Yeah, thank you for having me, Robert. Appreciate it. You.