1502: The Co-Parent Secret: How to Turn Divorce into a Respectful, Love-Filled Environment for Your Child with TEDx Speaker and Author John Bassford

Robert Plank 0:01 How do you take something as painful as a breakup and turn it into the foundation for a thriving, respectful, love filled environment for your kids? John bassard did just that. He is a TEDx speaker and a best selling author who cracked the code on intentional co parenting and his new book, The co parenting secret, it's changing lives. We're on the marketer of the day podcast with Robert plank. We're brought to you by D FY podcast.com we handle the back end. So your podcast builds legacy, not stressed. And you might be thinking, Well, why the heck is a business podcast talking about divorce and co parenting. Well, a lot of life, I think, is in expressing your ideas and being thoughtful and strategic and calm. So I think we can still work a little like marketing, of the idea of raising your kid right and dealing with sometimes the high conflict other person, or maybe you're the high conflict person who knows, John will tell us what we don't know we don't know, and all those other stuff. So Mr. John, glad to see you again.

Jon Bassford 1:08 Thanks for having me. You're absolutely correct. I mean, there's a lot that you know, I've talked to you a bit on here before about my business, which is all about being curious about your operations, your leadership, to find the best way to achieve results. And that's exactly what we did with co parenting. You know, the old way of looking at how a two home situation worked doesn't work in today's modern society, and we, kind of, we flip, flip the script, if you will, what it means to co parent and happy to bring that message to your audience.

Robert Plank 1:34 Yeah, and I'm, I don't want to talk about myself all that much, but I'm still navigating it, this idea that what was once more of a tighter knit team and more of a romantic relationship has now become more of a business relationship where you have to be really careful and you can very easily, like, ruin a situation, but if you're kind of more just careful about what you do, then you can, you can raise the kid even better than maybe they would have been in this high conflict household. And so I'm just, I'm curious about, what's your take on all this, because, like, co parenting, like, it seems like it's been thrown around a lot more, but if someone comes to you and says, All right, John Basford, co parenting, what's the spiel? What should I know? What's the elevator pitch about this idea?

Jon Bassford 2:18 Sure. So, you know, I think what a lot of people call co parenting, or any two parents who raise kids in two homes. And I actually would disagree with that. That's that could be parallel parenting. It could be, you know, a single parent and a parent. I mean, I was, I'm a divorced child from the from the 80s, right? I had, we had the typical breakdown where mom had school, sick, health, all the responsibility. And dad had fun every other weekend with movies and bad food, that sort of thing, and that's how I was raised in a two home environment. When my ex wife and I were splitting, we wanted to do things differently. I wanted more responsibility in my son's life. We wanted to make sure that our son felt comfortable with both families, and we didn't destroy relationship that we had with each other's families. So we just went into it very, very intentionally about doing things differently. And you know, book wasn't on the on the radar. We weren't doing it to save the world. We're just like, you know, we want to respect each other, respect each other's family, and figure out the best way to raise our kid. And that's the basis of all this is

Robert Plank 3:21 very nice, and that's the best kind of books that just kind of become created from what you've done, right? Gary Vaynerchuk says, document don't create. So maybe you've learned some stuff, and you say, hey, you know, I went through all this trial and error and developed all this data, and maybe I could package it and arrange it so that others don't have to go through all that frustration I went through in a similar idea that we all want to raise our kids better than our parents, right? Even if you had a stellar childhood, it's like you still want to be improved on, on what was done, but, but we all have these complaints that there are to be had, right? Our parents messed up in this way or that way. Mom or Dad said this one little thing, and it stuck with me for decades. So hopefully we can improve on that. And what have you learned? What do you think is a good jumping off point as far as the reframe the mindset shift, like, what have you thought about and done differently because of this?

Jon Bassford 4:16 Yeah, I think looking at the mindset shift is huge for this, right is I think anytime you're looking at change, you got to start with the mind. And, you know, when I started really thinking about what it is we've done differently and why it's been so successful, and kind of, you know, paint a quick picture for your audience. You know, when we got divorced, there was a lot of animosity. You know, we spent four to six years of marriage and counseling. We were living together while hashing out the separation agreement. Things got dirty, things got nasty. No one wronged the other person, but just high energy and emotions and all that type of stuff. But we came out of that, again, very, very intentional, to the point where I am remarried, my ex wife, her partner, her parents and her uncles were all at our wedding, and that's. That's where that this relationship can take you, not that everyone has to become friends with their ex and their ex's family, that sort of stuff. But you know, from thinking about what made what we did so different and why it was so successful, is that, you know, the subtitle of the book is, it's not about you. If you think about when conflict arises, you know, it's always about the parents view, the parents time, the parents money, the parents religion, the parents this, the parents this, parents this. And we really have taken to look at this in a different way. In it's, it's our kids time. You know, one of the great examples is, you know, for example, we've had something in our life to where our son was having a birthday party and someone in a two home family was invited, but because that relationship was on the dad's side, and he was with his mom, the kid wasn't able to come, because she saw that as that's your relationship with this person through your dad, therefore You're not allowed to do that on my time, where you know my ex will reach out to me and say, hey, you know, I know it's your weekend, but my parents really want to have Henry out to the beach that weekend. Is that okay? Like, yes, that is my son's relationship with his grandparents. That's my son's time for a mini vacation. That's my son's time for all of these things, and that shouldn't be dictated whether he's physically in my home or his mom's home, just because that's where the relationship, the biological relationship, happens. And so when you really start looking at it as from that perspective, and seeing things from you know what is best for the kid, remove your ego, remove animosity. That's where a lot of that conflict comes from. Remove those things, and just start thinking about not about yourself, but what's in the best interest of the kid, learning to let go, learning to give in, not for the sake of giving in, but for the sake of stopping the argument, stopping the fighting, stop the animosity. In You know, I always say that if you don't have a reason to say no, you should always say yes, in this type of environment.

Robert Plank 7:09 That's cute. And I love little sayings like that, where it's like, it's it's like, it's not so much rules, but it's like it's just new, new ways of poking holes at our stuck thinking, as you say. And it's like when you think about what makes a good like, book, story, movie. It's like when you go for the obvious knee jerk reaction, and that's like, usually the the stales, most boring, most just like tired plot line. But then when? So when you brainstorm like, Okay, what? What else could happen? What else? And you get to, like, possibility five and six and 20. Then you land on something, and you're like, Hey, that's a more interesting plot line in this book or in this movie. And it just seems like, if we kind of think about the possibilities, hey, if I instead of saying no about this birthday party, because those are that's the schedule or the rules, what if I said yes? What would be bad about that? Wouldn't that improve the life of the kid? It seems like a better way of going about it, but, gosh, doesn't it seem like it takes so much extra thinking, and it's worth it, but it's just like it I'm like, Okay, I need to think, like, 20 times more than I am used to.

Jon Bassford 8:11 Yeah.I mean, I think our traditional co parenting and how people relate to one another. Again, there's, there's always this, this kind of, you know, built up animosity right in and I think people expect to live that way. You know, it is actually crazy. How many people see our relationship and how we live our lives as weird, as different and almost gross to them, right? It's one of those things where it's like, ooh, gross. 2x are sitting next to that the soccer soccer field, sharing, you know, food and talking to each other's partners and and with each other's parents. It's just it's weird to people, because we've come to expect this, this level of animosity. We expect someone to say no when asked for a favor, unless there's a favor in return. You know, all of these things. But if we just, you know, I'm often also asked, you know, what if my other partner is not willing to engage in this, in this type of co parenting, we'll start with you like, start with you again. If there is a time when someone's saying, hey, I need some help this night, or I like my kid that night, sure. If you have a wedding planned and or travel plans, you shouldn't break those, necessarily, unless you want to. But majority of the time, any you know, 95% of time, I'm asked for a change or something, I'm not doing anything. And so the answer should be yes. And if we learn to just get let go where you go, let go of the animosity, and just just learn to say yes, and you build it from one side, it will become infectious, right? The person will see it and do it without the quid pro quos. I mean, you can if that's what you have to do in the beginning, sometimes that makes it easier. So both sides are are giving in a little bit. But the real magic comes when it just happens, when it's just like, just automatic yes and. The person sees that. And you know, even maybe don't say the word yes, say the word of course. Can you do this for me? Of course, you know, it creates this, this, this dynamic that you're not only there for yourself, you're not only there for the kid, but you are there for your ex partner because you are so connected, and you want your kid to live in two stable environments, and everyone to be happy and healthy, and it can start with creating these dynamics,

Robert Plank 10:25 very nice. So there is letting go, there's not keeping score, there's keeping your own side of the street clean. And I know that you say that a lot of people, they bring the anger, the control, the blame, into their co parenting and unlearning this is so important, and going for curiosity instead is what we should do. But I'm sure, like, there's always excuses, right? There's always barriers. Oh, that's so easy for John and his people, but I can't do that. And so where do you see people getting stuck, like, with all that you've seen, like, what can we do to change and and like, you know, solve this really difficult mental problem it seems.

Jon Bassford 11:01 Yeah, I mean, one of the things that inspired me to write this book is when I started thinking about writing the book, and I started looking to see what was out there, a lot of books are like co parenting with a narcissist, co part co parenting with an alcohol dependent parent. You know, it's these, these really kind of negative environments. And I and I understand why, because it certainly makes it harder, right? If you're not two people with the mutual intention of creating this type of environment, it makes it harder. But again, I think no matter who your partner is, no matter what they're doing, I guarantee you that if you apply these principles even one sided, of letting go, of giving in, helping out, you're going to make your own life that less stressful, that much more enjoyable, because you're going to stop fighting. You're going to stop caring about things you don't care about. You're going to you're going to give up all these little these internal dialogs and in feelings that you have, and no matter what happens on their side, if it's never reciprocated, you're going to know you're doing what's right for your kid, you're doing what you can to help the other person. And because of all of that, and through all of that, you are living a lighter, simpler, more fulfilled life just by implementing these, these process procedures.

Robert Plank 12:15 Well, remember Mr. Rogers on TV and just how nice and caring guy is like, when you're saying all that and thinking, like, man, what would Mr. Rogers do in a co parenting situation? He'd say, Hey, why am I hanging on to all this bad stuff? It's just, it's, it's probably even hurting me long term more than the other person. Why not just do the right thing and say, of course. And so you're this TEDx speaker, and you've seen some stuff, and you taught some stuff, and podcasting is all about stories, as you know. And so what kind of stories have you seen about this transformation, this change that's possible?

Jon Bassford 12:51 Yeah. So, you know, it becomes infectious, right, as even writing the book and living our lives. You know, I kind of think about the four minute mile break right when banister was at 1954 1956 in documented history, no one had ever broken the four minute mile. And then banister did it. And then someone beat his time a month and a half later, not years later, not decades later, a month and a half later, because there was a change in mentality and mindset that, okay, it can be done. We've seen it done. Now, let's go do it step further. And I think that's what our book, that's what our relationship is doing for people is, is, is showing them that you don't have to have animosity, you don't have to stand on opposite ends of the field, that you can you don't have to be BFF BFFs, right? You don't have to go to each other's weddings, but you can learn to coexist. And by seeing other people do that, what we've seen in return is people coming to us and saying, Hey, like, your relationship is inspiring to us. You know, because of this, I gave in, because, if I gave in, like, it's never anything that they're giving up, they're just not fighting right, like, that's, that's the crazy thing about this, is just learning how to look at this differently, and, you know, throw the X of bone from time to time and just have a more pleasant environment with them. And we've, I've had a number of people who have read the book reach out to me. A couple people get to just see our lives and just say, you know how inspiring it is to see someone who is, you know, flipping the script, as I say, just changing what it means to co parent. And it just really has become this infectious thing that's, you know, I really want to, you know, love to see kind of become a movement and really, really change how parents, across the board, are parenting and co parenting, including those are still married, you know, I would say there's some relationships where, you know, even though we're in a single home, it is much more of a single family, single parents environment, or a parallel parenting environment than co parenting. And so I really think it can really help change a lot of relationships.

Robert Plank 14:56 Yeah, change the relationship, change the meaning. And we kind of. Skated really quick past this, this little idea of the exaggerated self sabotaging disguise, where someone says, Well, I can't go to the gym because I won't. I need to build 200 pounds of muscle, right? I can't go and run because I can't run in four minutes. And likewise, they say, Well, I don't want to be best friends with my ex. And you're saying, Well, you don't have to be. You can just have a better approach and have this more upward trajectory. But like, I I sometimes see that, or I find myself falling in on that trap of saying, like, well, because I can't get this huge, amazing instant result, I won't even try it. It's like, well, it might take a while, and it might just be some little bits of progress, and I'm curious about your own struggles with this. Right as far as was there any time in this co parenting where you really just catastrophically failed, or you felt like giving up,

Jon Bassford 15:54 not casual you failed, I think we really kind of just kind of built this as we went, and we discover things. We've we've created an environment even early on, you know, we'll just open honest communication we get. We quickly put the animosities of our divorce behind us, the animosity of our marriage behind us, and quickly just, just open things up. There were challenges on the way, right? I was invited to a family event for family member my ex's side, and they found out I was invited and uninvited me. Right? It's not all rainbows and sunshine, like there's again, there's some people who just don't get what we're trying to do, and weren't a part of that. And you know, it was very, very hurtful to me. I was, you know, sad, depressed about it for a while, but I had to realize, like, look, the person's not in our internal team. They're not going to be in our internal team. It's okay. The people who are supporting us are there. But, you know, we just, we just learned as we went along. And I would say, for anyone starting this process, because again, I get, I really do get that sometimes, the way I describe this seems like a fairy tale, but you know, we had to work through things, you know, those first few, that first year or two, it's awkward, like, like, it's, it's, you're not going to just get divorced, come up with a co parenting plan and go to, you know, the next sporting event or family event and have no awkwardness. It's going to be awkward. It was awkward with with me and her, at times, is awkward with her parents and extended family. But as you you know, once you break the ice the first few times, and it becomes normal, and you work through the comfort, uncomfortableness, discomfort, discomfort, I guess, is the right word there. You work through the discomfort. You know it really it starts taking hold, right? It gets easier every single time. So it's going to be tough at first, but you got to stay committed. You got to be intentional about what you're doing and why you're doing it. And little by little, those barriers come down, the discomfort comes down, and again, it becomes back to, you know, I wouldn't say back to normal, because I don't think that's the right way to look at it, but it created an environment for us where I can actually look at my ex wife as a friend, as a colleague. I still see so much of her family as my family, and that is reciprocated from both sides. And again, it wasn't always easy, it wasn't always comfortable, but you got to stick with it and keep the keep the eye of the prize

Robert Plank 18:21 That's reassuring that you need to push through despite the discomfort and be intentional. And it seems like a lot of things worthwhile are uncomfortable at first. You think about that first day of school in the fifth grade, first day at the playground. Who do I sit in there at lunch? But you get through it to get to that positive result on the other side, and my mind has been blown by just how business see. All this divorce stuff is, and I kind of expected it, but all the spreadsheets, the documents, the email, the communication, the schedule, I was not prepared for, just how organized and on the ball, you have to be with some of this. But hey, we're adults, right? It's a skill to pick up and to adapt, and so there's so much to this co parenting, but it's good to know that with these routines, boundaries, emotional safety, all these kind of frameworks, you have these things you're teaching your book, that it is possible to go about it in a better way, but you're the expert here, and I'm just kind of a newly divorced dude myself. So what's the missing question in this conversation? What should I be asking you about co parenting that I just don't know what to ask you?

Jon Bassford 19:32 Yeah, I think for most people, it's, you know, where do we start it again? We touched on this a little bit, but start, just start with one. Yes. I believe that if you just start with one yes, that it snowballs. You're going to see how the other person responds to that Yes. Again, not a yes isn't let me, let me. Let me go check this and grumble and like, Why do I have to do this? You always do this to me. Put all that aside. All that. Side, just a simple yes or a simple of course, like of course, can sometimes be a more powerful phrase than yes, but just do that one thing, one time. See how the emotions come back of thankfulness. See how you feel in letting go of animosity and getting a free night right for yourself, for date night, whatever it is that you want to do with that time that you said yes to giving up your child, that sort of thing, and just start with one yes.

Robert Plank 20:25 I love it. Start with one yes. Or even better, of course, and think about the positive, the upside. You say, Hey, you can go to that soccer game, that birthday, that weekend, and then look what it opens up for you. So if you get what, you focus on, and you can look at the bad or you can look at the good, and we want you to look at the good, right? You don't have to put yourself through this misery. Change is possible with the co parenting secret, which is an incredible book put out by Mr. John Basford. So how can people get this amazing book? What are some next steps here?

Jon Bassford 20:57 Sure, so you obviously go to Amazon and search the co parenting or the co parenting secret. But also you can go to the URL the co parenting book.com, the book is available on there. I'm actually going to be releasing some coaching opportunities if people are wanting to be coach for co parenting. I'm marketing this towards entrepreneurs, business owners and high achieving professionals, because that's, that's what my career has been. I, as, you know, I that's, I consult, working with entrepreneurs and business owners. So I wanted to keep that all together. So if someone is out there and wants help individually going through this process, or as as a co parenting group, you know, I'm offering some services to help a limited number of clients.

Robert Plank 21:41 Oh, yeah. And you hope that entrepreneurs, business owners, would be a good fit, right? Because they're time limited, curious learners, problem solvers, and you've and like so many people, just kind of clock in, clock out of a job, or kind of just do just enough. But hey, if you're a business owner, entrepreneur, you want to achieve, right? You want to crush it, and so if you want to crush your divorce and your co parenting, then check out this book. It's called the co parenting secret. It's not about you, written by Mr. John Basford. JD, MBA, cAe, because separation and divorce can feel overwhelming, but they don't have to mean conflict, resentment or broken families, and in this book, the co parenting secret, it's not about you. John Basford shares his personal journey of turning a painful separation into a thriving co parenting relationship built on respect, intentionality and love for his child. That's the co parenting book.com or if you're a search on Amazon, person, it's the co parenting secret. So as we're headed to the co parenting book.com it's time for the scary part of the podcast. Mr. Jamur, I try to stump you. I try to put you on the spot by asking you about a fun or interesting quote or lesson that has served you. So what comes to mind as far as far as a fun or interesting quote or lesson,

Jon Bassford 23:03 so my go to on that is a quote from the Taoist philosopher Ted lasso. Be curious, not judgmental when we're curious about better ways to solve problems and to improve our lives, which the co parenting secret is certainly goes that direction. Things just open up. We get creative about how to live differently and how to be happy and learn to let go. And so I've always encouraged people to be curious, not judgmental,

Robert Plank 23:31 inspiring, curious, not judgmental. And let's think about that as we go to the co parenting book.com and thanks for being here, Mr. John, and being raw and real authentic and sharing this with us.

Jon Bassford 23:42 Thank you for having me see.