201: Podcast Guesting: Grow Your Audience, Get More Traffic, and Increase Your Digital Reach with Heather Havenwood

Robert Plank 0:00 Robert plank Show episode 201 podcast guesting grow your audience, get more traffic and increase your digital reach with Heather Havenwood. Hey, everyone, and welcome back to the Robert plank show this podcast where we talk about making money. And we're joined today by Heather and Havenwood. And she's been marketing and online business since 1999. And in 2006, she started and developed and grew an online information marketing publishing company from Ground Zero to over $1 million in sales in less than 12 months. We're going to talk about all kinds of fun stuff today. How are things today, Heather,

Speaker 2 0:36 I'm wonderful. I'm wonderful. Today, Friday, it's Friday.

Robert Plank 0:40 It is and I'm, I'm looking forward to the weekend and the coming weekend, the coming month and all kinds of stuff like that. And so I mean, tell me about yourself, like, what is it that that you do? And what is your focus these days.

Speaker 2 0:53 So my name is Heather Havenwood. And I'm here in Austin, Texas. And honestly, what I'm focused on right now is a couple things, one, being a guest on podcast, like we're doing now and sharing my story and then teaching other people how they can be a guest on radio, podcast, anything audio, right. And back in the day I got started, as I started traveling the country back in 2000. I called back in the day, right 2001 To 2007, I traveled the country where we would create develop seminars. So I love the idea of podcasting because I'm sitting here by myself hanging out talking to you, I didn't have to travel, I have to get the suitcase, I had to go through TW, you know, get all through all that process of traveling. And nowadays, we can use our voice to actually get out there in front of other people's audiences to guessing so I focus a lot on that. I also have a dating business called Dane triggers.com. All right, educate men on how to talk to and communicate and attract women. And then when my boyfriend i We have a submit company, it just got launched in 2016. So extremely busy, lots of fun, and have a good time in Austin.

Robert Plank 1:58 Awesome. I mean, it sounds like you got you have all those boxes ticked. And so So you're talking about, um, you know, a lot of a lot of your business a lot of your traffic. So as from guessing on a podcast, it's replaced. Maybe a lot of you're speaking and you're traveling. And so when you talk about being guests on a podcast, I mean, how often are we talking? Is this something that you do? You know, every day, once a week, five times a day? How often are you doing this?

Speaker 2 2:21 So I started? That's a great question, Robert. So I started on accident back in August 2015. So about a year plus two few months. And I got started, I did one on accident. And then I got a client out of it like two weeks later. And I thought, well, well, this is cool, you know. So I started really focusing on it. So up until this time, we're talking now November 2016, I'm been on a roughly about 180, almost 190 podcasts, I've been on other people's podcasts, right. So there's, there's, there's a weak side do up to nine this week, I've done three, where I'm on other people's podcasts, I also now have just started my own podcast, but that was After almost nine months. And so I learned was I learned the art of sharing being on your show. My job here is to add value to you, your people, that's my job, right? To make you the star not me, and as much value as I possibly can. And then after eight months, I then said okay, now I get the business of it, I'm willing now to to have my own show. So I've been on around 180 190 other people's shows up to this point. So it's a lot, five, average three to five a week.

Robert Plank 3:31 And it sounds like and I'm sort of going in the reverse direction as you like, I think we're on episode 201 now and and it's only only recently have I even even thought of this whole thing of going on other people's podcasts. And and it's I mean, there's a lot of great stuff, right? Because the people the guests that I've had on my show now I sort of know them now I have a little bit of an issue with them. So if I want to be on their show now I know them and then for you. I mean it's it's the you have the same advantage, right? Because you have been on all these other podcasts now you know these people now you can have these other guests on your show, too.

Speaker 2 4:07 Yeah. And here's how it happened is because that back in 2013, you can still find on iTunes. I started a show called Sexy Boss show. I had no clue what I was doing, Robert, I think I did like four or five interviews of friends. I put them all the same day. I really had no idea what that was doing. I didn't get that medium, you know? And so I just like oh, forget this. I'm done. This makes no sense, right? I don't understand. And I just stopped it. And then fast forward 2015 when someone said Hey, come on my show and then I got a client. I thought okay, how this is an amazing opportunity to go and learn the business first by being a guest. So I what I mean by focus 100% on being a guest that's what I focused on. My job was add value. My job was to support you. I always always always promoted my hosts like you right? I will promote this show. And I always do that and people will I'm amazed like, Oh my God, you're promoting my show my course. Why would I not write it? The show? has me talking about me, why would I not promote me? So I started doing that. And the cool thing was I called the Green Room, the green room bought the green room, like, the jewels in the green room. Because afterwards, I would get off the you know, the Skype call or whatnot, and go, Okay, tell me, like, how's it working for you? Like, tell me the software you're using? Tell me what you've learned over the last 100 200 episodes, and they would tell me all the jewel Oh, my God, this is great. So at when I got started in June, was eight, nine months later, I was like, ready to go. Like I knew exactly what pitfalls to avoid, I knew exactly what to do and not do because I had this opportunity to learn first, right by being on the show. And if you look at most mediums, like if I was a TV person, if I wanted to, all of a sudden become an Oprah, or whatever, Oprah first was on TV, she was on other people's shows first, before she's like, I'm ready to create my own platform. And it started to make more sense. So the second time around, I've been able to launch I've been able to launch successfully, right? It's called the wind with Heather Havenwood. So he has a it's kind of a reverse portion of it, but it's working for me.

Robert Plank 6:12 And that's cool. And you got kind of got the bugs worked out and that when Heather Havenwood podcasts working people subscribe to that one.

Speaker 2 6:21 They can. iTunes Stitcher, Google Play, I got an I Heart recently, I'm all excited. Whoo. And I didn't go to Heather havenwood.com Ford slash podcast show, and they can click on that does download it. But it's an all that, you know, all the great locations. That the fun part about, I think we've run a call verse psychology and any kind of business. You know, it's, it's like back in the day in the seminar world. When I started traveling, I first helped other people create their seminar, like I wasn't the voice like they're in the front of the room. And I watched them pitch and I was the one like handling the room like handling the logistics. And then over time, when so it goes, now it's your turn to start speaking, I was more comfortable in the space, right? Versus just like, Eric, here's, here's a mic go for it. Right. So it's, it's a kind of reverse psychology that's ever worked for me in different mediums, not just this particular medium, but going backwards. And now, I know other like the tips and tricks. And what's also cool about it, Robert, just like you said, the moment I launched mine, I mean, I'm now I have so many get I have so many interviews lined up. I think my recording my editor is like I think you're good through like January 2017. You know what I mean? Because everyone was like, oh, yeah, sure, I'll be in your show, because you were on mine. So it was easy to to reverse that and to help other people and support them.

Robert Plank 7:39 Awesome. And I think you and I are on similar paths, because I think I have like 70 guests lined up between now and February. So I mean, we're kind of on the same page, right? As far as Yeah, well, we kind of fooled around, made all the mistakes, figured out how to do it and scale it and so So you mentioned that. So you were on you were on all these shows? And and yes, yes. All these guests about like the the pitfalls about, you know, having a podcast or being guest about a guest on podcast, or how to, you know, deal better with the guests or how to be a better guest. So like, what sort of pitfalls off the top of your head have people shared with you in all your podcasting travels?

Speaker 2 8:17 God, there's so many right, so let me think the first one was like, like, what I call the technology like, high tech, I chose Lipson right, I asked a bunch of people like gotta go lives, and I'm like, okay, and stuff like that. And then like, how did you show notes like design work? What does that is that good thing? Like, yeah, here's how you best do it. I'm like, okay, like all these little like fun things that the the nuances of it. And then of course, like, how do you actually grow your audience? Like, how does that work? I got to ask a bunch of questions about that. And I heard I knew when that was coming down the pike really early. So I was like, Oh, look at my heart. So it's kind of fun stuff like that. But I think the big one was, the key thing I learned was for is more what I learned for me, which is how to share my story over a 25 or 30 minute conversation, right, that it's not a sales pitch. That's what I learned about podcasting is that it's not a sales pitch. I feel like right now you and Rob, you and I, Robert are hanging out having coffee here in Austin, right? We're just having a conversation, and then other people get to listen in. Right? That's kind of what's happening. That's how I view it versus a as a presenter, a presentation. If there's an audience of 200 and I'm presenting at them, I'm speaking at them. And that's what podcast, podcasting is not okay. I'm trying to like feel like I'm on top of my words here. The podcasting is not a presentation where I'm speaking at you. It's a conversation where I share my story I share value, I share tips and tricks, and then people listen in to our chat. So I just got back last night from internet marketing party here in Austin. There's like how For the people there or something like that was crazy. Dan rose spoke of Six Pack Shortcuts. And a lot of dear friends of mine. They're there, who are a master and marketers. And all we do is we go there, we hang out, we have a cocktail, and then someone speaks for 30 minutes. And then they do exactly what we're doing right now. They just share their story. And they share a tip or trick or two. Right, and we go, we travel there and park the whole nine yards. Right. So podcasting has been able to do that. Do that on a scale on a level. And that's what I was really able to understand the medium.

Robert Plank 10:31 Awesome. And so do you. Do you ever notice like when when you go on some of these podcasts, like, I mean, there's different personalities, different people speak in different ways? And have you noticed that? I mean, like, for sure, sometimes you get on a show. And it's just kind of a back and forth conversation. Do you ever get on a show where the host is just not talkative at all? Or not a very good conversationalist. Anytime?

Speaker 2 10:53 Oh, my God, yes. I call it pulling, right. Hopefully I'm not you're not pulling from me right now. Like I'm giving, right? There's like an energy to it. And I don't know if you experienced this, but I know I have where I've been on a show with a host. And they kind of are like, Okay, what's your name? Go? Just like, can you ask me something? Because it's really a conversation on a presentation. And a present presentation when I was speaking world, how would that would work is if I was the emcee is because like, I'm going to tell you how amazing Robert is Robert is this this is this is who he is. Okay. Here's Robert. Right. And then I walk off stage. And I don't come back on stage. I don't interrupt you as the presenter, right. But that's not the podcasting works. And so lots of young people don't understand that. They want me to present like a presenter, oral I got a webinar webinar, if I wanted someone else's, if someone did a promotion to their list, a webinar is not a conversation. It's a sells. It's a teaching with a sales tactic, right? We're going to teach and then we're going to ask you to buy something because the teaching, right? It's less of a share and more of a technique plus a sales in in podcasting really is we're just having a conversation. And black people have a hard time with that I know for another one that I think is interesting is I always when I host now and I got someone recently, I could tell they've had what I call PR training. You know, I'm talking about TV training. So when I asked them like, Well, tell me about yourself, Robert, they spoken soundbites. Oh, geez. Right like I am. They said like a to two sentences flat. And then I was like, I guess I gotta ask you another question. We could have been done with that interview in like six minutes, and I couldn't go anywhere was so hard to pull the information out because they were taught in PR, because if you're on TV, you got three minutes max, boom, boom, boom, question, you're out. Right. So in TV, the PR, the soundbite soundbite sound bites. And podcasting, it's a, it's a story. Like you want to hear a story people want to hear stories and and be able to relate to them or agree with them or disagree with them. Right. So it is it is definitely interesting. And then the other one is a presenter, I had a really big time speaker on be big time, that guy's like, big time and speaking world. And he's on my show. And I remember, he's so used to presenting he's used to that the example I had earlier, Robert, which is like, this is who he is, and then I'm off the stage. Right? And so when I asked him a question, he would go into presentation mode. And I would now like an interrupt like, tell me Well, um, tell me more about that or something. And he was like, get irritated. Like, this is a conversation, dude, this is not a speech. So I think that's part of the medium people learning that and that was the one thing that I, I learned really well in that, you know, over almost 200 interviews at this point

Robert Plank 13:42 of like the the extremes to avoid and sort of, like, I, at least, like the way that I go into an interview sort of as as a host is, is I guess my mindset is, I'm going to kind of start off by figuring out like, what, what makes the person stand out? And then and then if that kind of runs out of gas, then I'll kind of move on to like, what's their origin story or something, and then we'll there might be something to unpack there. And then if that sort of runs out of gas, then I might ask them for like a like a case study with one of our clients. And usually they're, there's something to unpack there. But even if that runs out of gas, then I will ask, I'll ask them about like a mistake that they see everyone making or like a thing that really like frustrates them. And if that runs out of gas, because like you said, sometimes I'll get like a two minute or three minute answer. And then if that if that runs out, then I will literally, I mean, I don't know if I should say this, but I guess we're just saying everything, like I'll pull up their website, and I'll get to their blog section. And I'll just kind of say like, well, I noticed on your blog, you recently talked about that. So even if they if I'm really like you said like I'm really pulling the information out of them, at least I kind of have those all those fallbacks and so do you, I mean, do you kind of have have something similar like that, like if you want come on a show, do you have like a, like a worst case scenario or like something Something in the can I guess if if the conversation isn't going well like something just to say,

Speaker 2 15:05 you're first of all, you're adorable. Cracking Up over here. I love that look at that runs out of gas like I did. I don't I'm not as strategic as you as the planning stage. So I might just take that on for myself, because that's really good. That was really awesome. I just have to say, like, Oh, I could see to like the logic there when he's going, Oh, that's awesome. Okay, so as a guest, I'll speak from that perspective. I haven't had to go there. I mean, as a guest, I, I have had someone who's on the other side has what I call a dud, a low energy person, as I call it. So I was I was what's interesting about that, Robert is the year before I started podcasting, on accident. I actually did a year of improvisation. I actually went to classes for a full year and learn the art of improv. And the art of improv is truly just podcasting. Right, because you and I have never met you. And I've never really exchanged much of email communication other than just like a calendar and a date and time. And part of improv is you get up on stage and they just literally say, you're in a spaceship go and you have to make it all up. And so there's literally strategies with improvisation. There's they call it they call it rules, rules of improv. One of them is yes. And right. So you can say we're on Mars. Now go, yes. And we're now in like a cool thing, right? Like, it's all about guessing. And so I use the rules. I learned improvisation inside of podcasting, because one of the deaths of improvisation is if you go onto the scene, and then you make that a person wrong. Like we're on Mars, like, No, we're not on Mars, we're, we're on planet, Neptune or something. You can't make the the person wrong. That's one of the rules. You can't make what they ever said incorrect. And so that's part of podcasting. I think, if I'm the guest, and you're the host, or vice versa, I make you amazing. Everything you say is great. Everything is a is a yes. And so sometimes we'll take something the wrong way. I'm like, yeah, and, and I'll turn the conversation to something else. But I won't make them wrong. Like you're wrong for saying that. You know what I mean? That's one of the rules I do. And I think with that just creates flow. Right? So it's a conversation. It's like a chat like I do I really visualize you and I just hanging out having coffee, right on Sixth Street or something. And Austin, where are you live? By the way? Where do you live?

Robert Plank 17:24 I am in California. Okay, great. Like Modesto, Stockton. Oh, nice. That's cool. And I'm glad that you brought those couple of things up. Because Because I think back again, because I mean, like I said, like I'm thinking back to, to, you know, to pass episodes on how it can be a better host, I'm thinking into the future on how I can be a guest. And it sounds like everyone listening should be hopping on these different podcasts to be a guest. And I can and I can think back to some people and I guess some people are more mismatches than matches. And some of these people that I've had on, like, disagree with almost everything I say, and I kind of have to, I'm with, I'm scrambling to sort of please them or, or I've had times where I'm the person like, like, I guess if someone's really high energy, like you said, like, all kind of do my best to match them. Or if they speak really slow, I'll do my best to kind of match them. And every now and then I'll come across someone where they speak really fast, and they slow away down. And I'm kind of having to just scramble to keep up. I mean, have you ever come across that where like the personality conflict is so extreme? Where not necessarily they're kind of a dud, like you said, but they're just, you're just having to do all this work just to talk to them? Do you ever get across?

Speaker 2 18:32 Yeah, I, you know, I, you've done way more podcasts. And I have as a host right? So just get that clear, mindfully been since June, I think I'm on like, 27 or 28. Right. What's cool about the current interviews, as most of them I interviewed on their shows, so we already had this great report, but there have been a few I've gotten cold recommendations and I remember this one particular that after that, you know it's you know, it's not a good interview in the should be like a tagline. You know, it's not a good interview, when dot, dot, dot, when you come off the interview, and I want to pass out like, like, oh, it was so much work. Oh my god, I'm exhausted. It shouldn't be that challenging, like a 45 minute 30 minute conversation. There was one I actually can do that I'm not gonna get there myself. I'm falling asleep. Other people can fall asleep, so I can do it. And then the other one was that big time speaker I had on where it was like pulling teeth for him to go in any other direction. Because it's like he has this canned speech prepared in his head because he's been doing it for 25 years. So he had this canned speech. So anytime I interrupted that he would get upset or pattern interrupt, you'd be like, Oh, I don't want it. You know what I mean? Am I Oh, Kurt is Mars dude. You know, let's just so there was I felt like there was a dominant stuff going on, like what it called submissive dominant, but I'd rather have it more play, like, you know, like, we're playing right now. You know, if you interrupt me, that's fine. You know, it's Your Stage I, I'm here to serve you, I'm your guest and your house soft, vice versa. So I think that those are the few that I've had that I just don't think that people understand the medium. And that's, that's why I tell people I'm the big, I'm the one of the one saying don't start a podcast, go be a guest because a couple things happened. Robert, when your guests, you start to share your story over and over and over again. And you're starting to get really good at sharing your story. And I say that it's very different than networking event. If you and I go to networking event, and I go, Bob, what do you do? And you'll say, like a sentence, right? And then I'll say like, I'm a marketer, or something like simple, and there's nothing there. But in a podcast, when you say, Well, tell me about yourself. There's like space to actually share, right? And so that's the difference. And people get all weirded out by that. And so that's where the practice comes in from. I always tell people go get on podcast, because you can start to learn to share about yourself, your story, what you did, how you did, you know, and there's when you have a practice of that it's easier to do in other arenas.

Robert Plank 21:01 And so as far as sharing your story, I mean, do you notice that the podcast interviews that you hop on like, are maybe a good chunk of them very identical? Like are some of the some of them sort of go? More or less the same path almost, where you can almost kind of do it in your sleep?

Speaker 2 21:19 Um, there's a consistency to it. Absolutely. Because here's why. Here's why there's a consistency to it. Because at the end of the day, Robert, you and I, as human beings, we haven't changed much. In the centuries and centuries now. There's things called Facebook and the tools have changed iPhones, whatever. But we as human beings haven't changed. We all love listening to stories. We relate to stories, we disagree with a story we can connect with or disconnect with the story, right? So I can tell you tips and tricks all day, and it's fine. But we as human beings, we we share through stories, right? Grandparents and generational. It's their stories. So I think this particular medium is a medium for us sharing our story. And I have no problem sharing my story actually was interesting as a therapeutic piece of it, because I went through a massive bankruptcy and a foreclosure. And I remember when it all happened, I thought I'll never share this ever, ever, ever. Don't ever ask me about it, you know, and here I am six years later, sharing it constantly. Because I also have an you know, I overcame that. And now very successful. And I want to share the story that if I can do it, you can do it, whatever your situation is, right divorce, whatever, everyone has their, their ups and downs. So it doesn't get old for me at all is become it almost becomes a therapeutic piece.

Robert Plank 22:44 Awesome. And I think that, you know, I can relate to that when I listen to podcasts and things like that, if I'm listening to like, a podcast on if I'm on a walk or in my car, like I'm not I mean, I do like to get all the tips and tricks in there. But I really appreciate the stories especially like the overcoming adversity stuff because it's almost like a, like a light listening or like a light reading, right? As opposed to like, getting all this step by step figured out. It's like, okay, I can just kind of listen to this thing. And I can maybe half listen to it. If I'm driving and I can get something. It's like everybody gets something different out of it, right? Because you tell the story with all these little things to pick up on. Yeah, it's

Speaker 2 23:20 true. And what's really weird about this medium in the last year, I've never been like a talk radio girl like I go and listen to talk radio. But this last year, because I've been really focused on this medium, I'm out there listening to the Danish show, she's got a big show and the Rush Limbaugh and all these like big time, you know, talk radio people, and I'm listening to them and how they share stories. I mean, Rush Limbaugh is a master, so is Howard Stern. There are masters at interviewing, and they're masters at sharing the story. We're literally there been times and listening to them and I don't want to get out a car or like I, you know, I gotta turn something. I don't want to turn it off because they're in the middle of this story that is keeping me right there. I don't I mean, like, how are they doing that? It's so amazing. And that's why they're successful. It's because they're able to invoke emotion through the stories like them or not, you know, that actually, a long time ago and the survey is not recent, but years ago, they said that over 50% of the people that listen to Howard Stern hate them, listen to him. Hmm, you know, it's because the emotion of listening to them they like it or not, they enjoy that emotion. So I think that's what podcast is about.

Robert Plank 24:31 And in that they hate the the personality but they like what they like the conversation and all that stuff. Hey, I

Speaker 2 24:38 can't believe he said that. They're still listening. You're like, well then turn it off. No, I want to hear what he has to ask next, you know, and so it is an interesting study. Why do people listen to certain podcasts and certain not well, they love the personality. They love the people they love the the interaction and the conversations and what I call the lifting the hood. That's why when I get someone on who's a if I'm gonna posted there the guests if I get someone on that talking, they're talking and talking points, it's not fun to listen to that. It's like, okay, sounds like you're scripted, and boring, right? So it's not going to help me it's not going to help them. I want to know why they're doing what they're doing. I had a guest on I just actually posted it. Kate this morning, Kate, she actually is a financial planner. And I told him like, I don't want her about financial planning, that's a bus boring thing on the planet, you know, I said, but I'm really interested. You've been in this education piece. She's I could have written for Forbes, all kinds of what I call financial magazines, stuff over the years. So I want to talk about the industry of financial education, like the industry to Gao is a journalism for Wall Street. Like what the hell's that mean? Like, who pays for that? You know, and she's explaining the business behind financial education. Like when you turn on CNBC, like who are these people? We're gonna make them all great, you know? So it's two different industries, and what's their purpose? And what are they selling? And it was a very interesting conversation, and I thought it was way more evoking than just toes about financial planning. You know, right. Boring alert.

Robert Plank 26:11 And, and, and so I mean, this is, this is all good stuff. I mean, I mean, as a podcast guest we, we should focus on having a story and not for someone to sort of pull all these things out of us. And we shouldn't talk in those short talking points. Great for TV, not great for podcasting. And so, I mean, when someone is, is, is planning on hopping on different podcasts, I mean, should they be? I mean, what sort of thought should they be putting into their stories? They'd be like, like thinking about it ahead of time, or trying to figure out like, the before and after or the emotional, or do you think they should just jump on in and kind of figure it out as they go?

Speaker 2 26:47 But great question and great insight on that, Robert. And actually, I just did and I really just kind of semi plugging only because I just completed this like yesterday, right? So I am doing a course right now called podcast 3030. And where I'm teaching people how to guest and I just did like an hour talking, you know, presentation really, to them teaching the art of the story. And I went through them each detail of the hero's journey, the hero's journey, by heart of that, it's, it's actually a stage a six stage process at every single movie in the world. That successful, by the way, actually follows once you learn this, once you learn the what I call the story of that the staging of that every single movie you ever see ever again will like follow it to a tee. Right? And I, I broke that down, such that you can place your what we call your story, your personal story on top of that sequence, right? In a fast, effective way. Not it's not gonna take two hours, it's gonna take like, you know, two, three minutes. So I was able to, you know, share that. And that's really the hero's journey, and I talk about that book, you're welcome to get that by it. It's a pretty thick, crazy book, but I broke it down in an hour of like, how do I share my story in a way that literally falls on top of the actual progress, the staging of stage one through six, that the reason why it's so powerful hero's journey, is because since the beginning of time, since biblical times, in biblical times, is that we can open the Bible today, right or not, and read a story biblically. And we can really understand it. And we can relate to it in some way. And we see the lesson in why because we are story we'd like story, we like to be told stories, we are storytellers. So that particular hero's journey actually breaks it down. But in general, it's about teaching people your story about what you get with the up and down the ups and downs about two or three ups and downs in the hero's journey. That was a very long answer. I apologize. But I just did like an entire hour presentation on that.

Robert Plank 28:50 I mean, long answer, but it's a good answer. And and I I know I watched for that. I noticed that a little bit just as as far as that that Joseph Campbell they hear with 1000 faces like Star Wars the same as the matrix the same as the force awakens and all that stuff. And, and I think that that that's a good template. Everyone should be using that. And so that so this podcast 3030, like so this is a course that that you have coming out or is it out or

Speaker 2 29:15 yeah, it just came out the first students are going through it. And it's teaching people how to be called the guesting how to be a guest. Well, a couple of ways. I teach them how to share their story, but then also teach them how to get them to people like you to say yes to them easily. Because I can't remember how we got connected to be honest, Rob, I think it was if you connections, I'm not sure. But there were somewhere along the way. There you are your assistant, right. Saw my page, my media page, and within five seconds they said yes or no. And that's how people are hosting I send them a My Media page, Heather havenwood.com forward slash media. And I set up the page very strategically, in such a way that you as a host will say yes or no fast. And that's that's the job of it. So I teach them how to get people to say yes easily and effortlessly. All right? And then how do you get on that the show and be an amazing guest so that you as a host are not pulling stuff from them and running out of gas over and over and over again. I don't want them to do that. So I'm educating and teaching people how to do that. It's called podcast. 3030. The reason I say that, because by the challenges do 30 podcasts in 30 days.

Robert Plank 30:22 Awesome. I think that that's a good goal. And so am I hearing you right in that not only do you teach in your podcast? Are you 30? Like how to how to be a good guest on chosen that, but that what's a putt and how to make the media pages that include with that also?

Speaker 2 30:37 It is it is and I I'm sure you've noticed, the people have like what I call long these long bios, they're actually like resumes. Like, I don't want your resume, I want a bio. Well, what's the difference? You know, if you go to my LinkedIn page, you resume I mean, it's like five pages long or something ridiculous writes everything I've ever done ever. We don't want that as a host. That's just Ah, right? You want click to the point who you are who you're not, you got a book you got don't got a book, what? What's your deal, like really quickly. So there's a way to actually create your bio such a way for media, right? Is I go over that I go over one sheet, I go over, like the high resolution images I have on there, I'm gonna go over all these pieces. Because I want you as a host, like, you might do all your own stuff. You might have an assistant, you might have three assistants, I don't know. But either way, I want you to be able to send one link to them and go, everything's right here. Right cut, paste, grab links, whatever it is, make people have it have it easy for people to say yes to you. And I don't know if you experienced this, Robert, by just experiences like few weeks ago. So I had, I had someone that came on that I've known for years. And he's a big time in his own right, like, whatever. And I get him on. And I go, your bio is written in first person. Right? So it's like, you know, I, Robert have done this. So when someone I'm reading it, I had to, I had to go copy paste it and reverse it into Robert has done this, like who does her bio and first person, you know, stuff like this. I was like irritated because he was making me do more work. Right? So it's like, had people say yes to you easily and do the heavy lifting for them, like do the BIOS. So they all they have to do is like read it or not, or say a piece of it or not. And you get the gist of it. So I go through that I go in I also go through the story. And then I also go through how did I get I was up to almost at a 200 I like 181 nd? How did I do that? How did I reach out to that many shows and in a year? And what was my what I call cold emails, I call it? How did I do that? And so I go through that process, too, is called the sales process. Right? So that I go into that you sell yourself. Everyone was whoever wants to get an agency agencies are great. And I do have one that I work with. But they did not give me the 200 There's no way they didn't come close to that pipe. A third maybe I did the rest. I did all that heavy lifting. How did I do that? And, and why? So I go through that court. But through that in the course as well.

Robert Plank 33:03 Awesome. And I just I looked up how we how we connected. What happened was, I posted about my podcast on radio guestlist. And then and then he reached out but then interview connections emailed me a couple months later. And then they said, Oh, yeah, Heather's already on the schedule. But so so it's kind of interesting that you have multiple ways. It's not just you have one way of getting on shows you have all these other ways of reaching out. It's how many Yeah,

Speaker 2 33:27 I have four, I have four different so you got two of the four. Right? So it'd be connections is one. And then where your guest list is another one. But you work it you have to work it. I mean, you know, as a radio guest list, they it's a free service, you'll know about it, they just send you an email. But then that means you have to go and connect with them. And I do a little more than just blast an email, I would I remember going to your site and seeing it and going okay, is this a fit? Yes. Okay, here's how I can position the email, right? And then I reached out to you, and here we are. I'm sorry. I remember. Because it's been like two, three months, right? Since we first that first email I sent you. Yeah. And

Robert Plank 34:02 it's okay. Because I don't remember either. And when I, when I sort of do things from the other end, I mean, there, there was, I think one day when I sent it, like 120 different emails, just like, you know, just seeing if different people would be interested in my podcast, and then, you know, all these 20 replies would come in. And by the time I answered all 20, there'd be 10 more to answer. And so I can definitely relate to, you know, it's not like it's like a ton of work or a ton of data entry. And it is kind of fun, but there definitely is, you know, if you want to get on 200 shows, I mean, you have to you have to send out at least 200 Even 200 connections, right.

Speaker 2 34:38 Yeah, and you know, the other thing i i Exactly But here's another thing that I am really big on I learned this from the speaking industry, is you got to pull ego out of it. And I allow the host you to say if I'm a fit or not, however, I'm open to anything. So I've been on like, I've been on a sports, I don't on sports, right? I'm able to turn sports into a business conversation. I'm well I'm, I'm, I'm able to what I call spin it right? So I've been on a podcast to talk to only two lawyers, right? I've been on all the ones that dog walkers. That was an interesting one focus on gift basket business. So I'm always a yes. I'm always a yes. And I'm always open. So I've been on a really spiritual one. I'm not, I mean, I don't teach spirituality, right. I've been on any, I'm open to anything. Right. So I think that's a key piece of what happens is people get really like, wow, I don't want to be on that one. It's like you don't know who's really listening. Really, you know, you don't really, really know who's listening. Their intention is one thing, but you don't know who's listening. So you never know who's gonna be the one that says, Oh, I really want to work with them, or not, or whatever.

Robert Plank 35:48 Right. And I've kind of come across that with guests where, you know, like, I might reach out to like, a mindset person. And then some of them I've just been completely against the idea of showing up on an internet marketing podcast, because they say, Well, it's a business podcasts, I don't want to talk about business. And I say to them, like, well, I love to have you on because, you know, people who are in business or people who are entrepreneurs, they need that that mindset component, they've been only focusing on like, the facts and figures or the tutorials or whatever, and they need the, the more like, sound spiritual kind of stuff. And, and, and yeah, and so I've noticed that every now and then that a lot of a lot of people in other, you know, industries and stuff, they're, they're against sort of crossing the line and go into a different category. So um, so I'm glad that you brought that up that you can kind of fit fit your stuff into, to what the podcast is, and, and even on the the email that you sent to me, like I'm looking at right now. And he said, I saw your placement, our video guestlist this afternoon, your vision of Robert plank.com is great for online marketers that make their money off webinars, podcasting, email marketers, or email marketing, I'm asking you to consider having me as a guest on your radio show in 2016 2017. And then you had a link to your one sheet, some, you know, podcast, you've been on your Amazon page, and then a link to set up the call. So that so I really appreciate it that that that sentence number two, or whatever that I said there where you went and looked at the, the blog, and then that way, that way, I know that you kind of looked at it. And so when you, for example, like when you reached out to that podcast about the dog walkers. I mean, did you have to really change up that template? Did you really have to reach or like what did you say to get on the dog walker podcast?

Speaker 2 37:35 Okay, that would I do not remember what if I reach out to them? They reach out to me. I do remember. I do remember that the lawyer one. And I think that interview connections remember what that one specifically, it'd be connections retested. When she entered, they were like, Oh, we got this one. We don't know. Right? They first asked me first before that usually is the opposite. And I was like, yeah, like, bring it on lawyers. Like I love that, you know, because because with lawyers how I spot it was lawyers, even though no matter what their degree, their focuses, or ditches and lawyer, they all have to self promote themselves, right? It's all about self promotion. All it's all lawyers up is like self promoting themselves all the time. And so they had their own stuff around that. So I went in to talk about self promotion, and how you could do that and get away through that mindset of like, how to sell yourself right. The other one was the gift backs basket, that one was odd. That when I reached out to I said, Well, when you know people who have gift basket business, they're they're online. So I focused on email marketing, specifically, and how they can really increase their business by being consistent in, in sharing packages, creating packages for others, making it easy for people to say yes to them again, same concept. just spun it. Alright, so I've been open. I'm gonna open one of them was the sports one That one was one was fun. Because I don't worry about sports. Like I know cowboys. And I'm a Cowboys fan. And anything outside of that, like, I don't know, if they're winning or not, is it? So? But we had this great fun talk and talked about business and how the business of football, right, and what's going on with the business of football and they added a bunch of pieces in that. And then we had a great conversation. That was a lot of fun. There were two, like jocks, you know, it was fun. It was fun. The other one that was that was interesting that I got on this guy only interviews, people of the arts, as they call it, entertain trainers, and I'm not I'm not an actress, like he wants to interview actresses. Right. And I'm like, Look, I'm not an actress. But what I can do is talk to you about how actors and actresses and comedians, how they might be really good their art, but again, they suck us up promoting. They just suck at it. And so we had this great conversation about that. He's like, Yeah, they're right. They really suck at it. They want the deal to come to them, right. So like, yep, we can't do that. You got to go after it. You got to go to the audition, right? You gotta go all the auditions. You can't say why don't want that position, you just got to go the audition, show up, see what happens. It's how I see

Robert Plank 40:09 it. Whoops, the sounding the way that you're spinning this sort of the how like you positioning yourself for someone else that sounds almost like the way to like the mindset is, well, there's this other group of people and there's like, there's like a missing link in in whatever they're trying to do. And then you have the the solution. So you're saying even though I'm not, I'm not like you I have the solution that you need to plug into in whatever you're doing if you're an actress or anything else.

Speaker 2 40:38 Yeah, I think we all get stuck in our own little space. I know in the internet marketing space, we can get really stuck in like, this is our only world. There was no one else outlining like that. And it's not true. I mean, I think up start crossing to other industries. We all had the same challenges, right? So being able to spin it is key no matter what your story, and I think everyone can do that. I think everyone can. And it's pretty powerful. But you look at you look at like what I call big media, big media, right? So Jimmy Kimmel, or interview shows Oprah or Ellen are gone. And on it goes right? Is if you look at actors or actresses or authors, when they're on book tours, you've seen that movie tours or book tours, when a movie is going to come out all of a sudden they start hitting, they start hitting everything. Oh, yeah. Do you see that? Right? So what do they do? What are they doing? It's literally like a little podcast. And they're sharing their story. They're sharing about the book or movie, they're sharing some some thing that happened, some stories have been funny. So people remember to go and then buy the book or go watch the movie. That is what this is like. And so I'm already now at a point where getting what I call second rounds coming through meaning someone's like, hey, we want you back on. All right. In six months, we want you back on in two months and talk about this other thing. Because who says that we I'm on your show once and I never can ever come back? Who says that? I mean, Jimmy Kimmel's had a few people a few a couple times. Right, who says it's only a one off thing? It's multiple times? Why not? Like hey, last time you're on we'll talk about this. Let's talk about more about that, you know, why not? So it's also the host being able to be open to it's not always just a one off interview, I'll never see you again. You actually how do you build that relationship? So that's another thing that I'm taking on is like, how does the big media do it? And how can I put that into this particular medium and podcasting that's

Robert Plank 42:27 a pretty good insight that not only does showing up to podcast not only does like the skill itself get easier, but then all these connections you're making you can reuse that so that that part gets easier and so I mean, we've kind of gone over time here and I don't want to keep you too long but sort of as we're winding this down if you could wave a magic wand and and every podcast show that you were on like did did did blank like did some kind of thing like what's on your wish list for something that you wish like every podcast host would do for you as a guest

Speaker 2 42:57 oh wow hmm promote really heavy you know, cuz and I cuz I always promote but I realized that a lot of hoes if they put all this time into interviewing and setting it up and all these great things, they don't put a lot of time into the promotion of the show. And multipurpose it so when I'm when I have my show I multipurpose it's on YouTube, it's on. It's on the different audio, but I also do on YouTube, I then I download that and upload that again to Facebook, so it's in multiple places. So that'd be the one thing the second thing is really you know, thank you for sharing my podcasts already. 30 Invite people if they're interested in guesting, I'd love for them to come check it out.

Robert Plank 43:41 And where can they go to grab podcast 330

Speaker 2 43:46 They can go to Heather havenwood.com and they can click on work with Heather and instead of instead of a time and I could give them the email are given the website sorry about that email.

Robert Plank 43:57 Okay, so perfect so so the path for people to take is to go to Heather Havenwood comm and click on work with Heather and and that gets them to everything right? Does that get them to your books and all that cool stuff?

Speaker 2 44:09 Yes. Is and you know what? My assistant just texted me because she her heard me and she told me that I'm wrong. Hold on. Making sure she's right. Before I say to you though, I think she's right. Okay. Yeah. So you can go to Heather havenwood.com forward slash three. Oh, and there you can also just get to the podcast. 3030. So Heather havenwood.com forward slash three, zero.

Robert Plank 44:35 Awesome. So everyone go right there. Heather. havenwood.com/three Zero. So thanks for hopping on the show Heather and sharing not only your, your cool story with the ups and downs, but lots of interesting takeaways from not just how to be a better guest on shows how to get guests on shows, lots of cool, you know, breakthroughs and things like that, even for me talking to you. So thanks for coming by the show. Oh, you're

Unknown Speaker 44:58 welcome. Thanks, Robert. go right now

Robert Plank 45:00 to Robert plank.com/itunes to subscribe to the show listen to other episodes and rate and review the show