912: Demand Generation and Growth Mode Marketing: Achieve Your Growth Goals and Crush Your Revenue Targets with Deanna Shimota

Robert Plank 0:04 Hey, and welcome back to the podcast. We're here with Deanna Chu Mota who is the CEO of growth mode marketing. And she has made it her mission to know everything about b2b marketing and demand generation. She's on the cutting edge of marketing innovation, but also stays grounded in a foundation of solid marketing principles. So if you out there in podcast land, if you are someone who wants to catapult your technology company into high growth mode, then you are exactly in the right place. So Deanna, glad to be talking to you.

Unknown Speaker 0:35 Thanks, Robert. I'm glad to be here.

Robert Plank 0:37 I'm glad to have you. And so you know, I am here to let you unleash and to gush about your passion about what has you excited, a fired up ramped up these days? So what really turns you on? What has you just excited to get out of bed in the morning?

Speaker 2 0:52 Yeah, so we, like you said love helping companies that are on a growth mission. And one of the things that I love talking about and debating with people is demand generation, because they really believe lead generation is dead. And demand generation is the ticket to long term sustainable growth.

Robert Plank 1:13 And so so when you say that what comes to mind is, like, when you think of lead generation, what comes to mind to me, it's like, you know, a list, a table, but the database, a bunch of names and email addresses. And then so just just offer the first impression of hearing about like, demand generation, you think about how like social media, sometimes I am aware of things or I see someone posts or I might proactively look into what someone else is doing. And I'm not necessarily a lead. And so I feel like like, lead generation is very kind of like to focus and to just kind of like a name in a box. And this demand generation sounds more exciting. So what the heck is demand generation? And how is it different and better than lead generation?

Speaker 2 1:57 Yeah, great question. So you know, I'll start with lead generation, because I think that's where most companies put most of their marketing dollars, lead generation is really about targeting that 5% of companies that are actually in market. So if you look at your total addressable market, and you've got, you know, 100% of them, 95% of those companies are not currently looking to buy. But if you're selling your wares out on the street, and on the b2b scene, you are focused on how do I bring the leads in now who are actually ready to buy, and so you're missing 95% of your market. And I think that that's a mistake, because if you're not planting seeds, now, those future prospects are really important to the future growth of your company. And so lead generation really is the here and now kind of the short game, I'm trying to find leads, I'm trying to convince them to take a sales appointment with me, I'm trying to convert them to buy now, with demand generation, it's taking a step back and acknowledging the way that people today actually want to buy, because most people that you're going to reach out to aren't in market. So no matter how many cold calls, you send them a you know, emails, you blast out to them, content pieces you put in front of them and gate, you're not going to convince them to buy today, if they're not already in market if you have a fairly expensive software solution that you're selling out in the market. But it's really important to build that brand awareness and build trust with the 95% of people that are not in market today. And that's where demand generation comes into play. Because it's really about how do you put information and bring value to people now, so that you start to build that relationship with them. So instead of the sales team having to go and chase leads, which you know, everybody struggles with, it's it's always easier said than done, you have leads that are actually raising their hands, and they're coming to you. And so instead of lead generation where you're trying to pull someone into your sales process, demand generation is really building trust with those companies out there that you're trying to target so that they actually invite you into their buying process. And it really, you know, long term, it's not an overnight, I'm going to turn on demand generation, and the leads are going to come pouring in. It's a process and you have to have patience, and you have to constantly feed that engine with new content and really good content and get it out there where your ideal customer profile is. But over time if you do it really well. Demand Generation programs become a catalyst for growth for organizations.

Robert Plank 4:51 Well, that sounds great because as you're saying, the lead generation feels short term. It feels stressful. It feels just like you're you're trying to fit a square peg in a round hole, you're, you're trying to, like, kind of force it in and saying, Well, I need to contact these people that it might even not, it might not even matter how many phone calls, how many postcards, emails, some people just, it's, you're just talking to a wall, it's not going to happen. And then versus this demand generation thing. It's where a lot of like businesses and companies want to be right, where you just kind of you're thinking more long term, and you're kind of putting out the content. And you're, you know, doing like the webinars and the podcasts, and the posting, and all those sorts of things. And then people just sort of come to you, and invite you in. And it seems a lot, it just seems a lot smoother if you do it, right. If you have all these, like these, these parts in motion, where just that instead of trying to force it, they want to buy from you. And it's almost like their idea. And so it sounds really fun. And it sounds great in theory, but how is that? How is that accomplished? How do you go from this kind of old fashioned lead generation into the new demand generation?

Speaker 2 6:09 Yeah, you know, we've all still got a meter numbers. So I wouldn't recommend you just shut off your lead generation efforts and, and go all in on a demand generation program. But you know, without having a transition period, to continue to try to uncover the 5% of people that are ready now, because you've got to meet your numbers. Because it takes time to build out that demand generation engine, what I would say is, you start to divert more and more activities to the demand generation piece, and kind of ramped down the lead generation, as you start to see results, because it can take a good six 912 months to really get true traction with your demand generation efforts and build an audience. And there's a lot of work that goes into it. And so I think as people are looking at, okay, I want to do demand generation, there's a few things to look at, I think, first, we need to look at your ideal customer profile. And at growth mode marketing, when we have a client that comes to us and says we're going to build a demand generation engine, the first thing we're going to look at with them is okay, who are we marketing to. And if you're looking at your total addressable market, and it's, let's say, 50,000 companies, and you're in a very crowded space, meaning there's a lot of competitors that do what you do, it may be more effective to actually narrow down your focus of who you're going after, in order to reach those growth goals. Because if you're trying to market to that total addressable market, you're trying to be everything to everyone. And just imagine if I'm the buyer, and let's say there's 50, other solutions out there that do exactly what you do. And they're all marketing to me as the prospect. And they all sort of sound the same no matter how much they want to say their differentiators or their customer service and their, you know, implementation process and their ability to customize their software. Everyone's saying that. And so as a buyer, I'm really overwhelmed. And I'm looking at, I don't know who to pick. Now, if I'm the vendor, and I've really narrowed down my ideal customer profile, I'm not going after everyone anymore. I'm getting really targeted with my messaging, when I go and create content and put it out there to attract a certain type of company. Because I can speak more their language and to use an example if I am an HR technology company, and I am selling my services to hospitals. And there's 50 options out there. As the buyer, they're looking at all 50 options, they all sound the same, but one of them speaks specifically to hospitals, which one do you think is going to resonate with that particular you know, buyer. And so after you develop that you ideal customer profile, we then like to take our clients through a process to identify their unique point of view. And that really comes into play. You know, when you're in an organization where you have a technology or a service, where there's a lot of competition out there, and you don't have really well defined meaningful differentiators that actually matter to the buyers. You start to develop a unique point of view, which is really, you know, in our view, a story framework to go out into the market and talk about, you know, challenging the status quo and positioning it so that again, very targeted to your ideal customer profile. Your bill Telling that story and you're telling it over and over and over and consistently to these people, because you want to attract the best fit prospects. And that's who your ideal customer profile is. So then from there, you know, it's about building out a content marketing strategy. And then you know, what we consider the demand generation plan, that's how do you distribute that content, because you can create all the most wonderful content in the world. And if nobody reads it, it's a total waste of an effort. The key is not only to create really good content that's very targeted to the people you're trying to attract, or the companies you're trying to attract. But to get your content out in all the places that they're showing up.

Robert Plank 10:45 This is great. And I'm kind of formulating, like, almost like a step by step process. And it's like, it feels I don't know why, but it feels like it's like a reverse engineering kind of thing of saying like, okay, a lot of people, a lot of people will just say I want to make a bunch of content. And that's the end goal. But you say, well, first, let's look at who is the audience that we want to attract? And it might be kind of like cloning, what's already working or like, you know, playing with that a little bit where you say, Okay, who are the people? What's the audience, and from there, you get your unique point of view. And that way, you have something that's like different to say, and makes you stand out and also speaks directly to them. And then from there, you can you figure out the story. And the story is funny, because that way you can hook people in, and you can have lots of different ways to attack the problem. And you can have that repetition that you would not have, if you were just like stating facts, or like, you know, like teaching, right, by having the story, you can kind of repeat without them realizing it. And then from the story part, then that's where all the content comes from. And so that way you you thought it through, and instead of just saying, Let me blast a bunch of things and see what sticks, you're actually having kind of a logical path. And so you sit in there that like the the content, there's a lot to it, right? And that a big problem is that so many people create lots of really wonderful content, and not a lot of people see it, and I know a lot, there's so much to unpack there. But would you say is there like an easy explanation of like, where do a lot of people go wrong these days with content, because it's easy to just like, fill up a YouTube channel or fill up a, you know, Facebook page. But what really drives you crazy? What really frustrates you, when you see people doing this content distribution the wrong way?

Speaker 2 12:37 Yeah, you know, I'll see organizations create, like really valuable, meaningful content. And then they'll run digital ads. And they'll promote that content. And they'll put a form on it. And they want people to fill out the form so that they can, you know, turn around and start marketing to them, start cold calling them. And, you know, that's one way that I look at it, I'm like, let's rethink the way that we're approaching this. Because if this is your best content, and it's really good content, why are you putting an obstacle in the way of the people you want to see it, reading it, watching it listening to it, because this is the stuff that convinces them to buy from you. And so I think even just rethinking some of those traditional marketing approaches, it's about giving your content away freely. And where you give it away, I think depends on who your ideal customer profile is. And as part of that ideal customer profile exercise, what we do is we talk to companies that we believe fall into that ideal customer profile, and individuals within there to say, where do you go to get information? Where are you going, you know, to have conversations, how are you finding these things? And a lot of times, it's not necessarily where we've traditionally marketed, you know, it's like, well, I'm actually I'm going to this user group, and I talk to people, and I'm going to LinkedIn, and I've been following so and so for a while. Oh, and I've been listening to this podcast for six months. Well, you know, as marketers, we've been trained, we have to measure everything, so that we can prove the value of the dollars that we're spending for an organization to help them grow. And I think it's really important to be able to measure but the reality is, you can't measure every activity that happens. And that doesn't mean you shouldn't do it. So like, you know, a podcast, for example. I mean, I'm sure you know from experience, Robert, people listen to it. You don't know who listened to it. You don't know what they did with the information that they consumed. But at some point, some of these people pop up in your sales funnel. And when you ask them, What prompted you to reach out to us they'll say I've And listening to your podcasts, there's some really good information in there. You know? So it's, it's activities like that like understanding your buyer. Are they podcast listeners? Are they video watchers? Are they white paper readers? Are they you know, user group attendees? Are they trade show attendees, like looking everywhere that they go for their information sources and trying to get your content there, whether it's your own own channels, like your website, and or, you know, the channels like social media, where you can push out at your own schedule, and I think also third party audiences. So you know, what are the publications and the trade shows in the media influencers within your industry, who you can tap into their audiences as well?

Robert Plank 15:48 That's really powerful to think about. And you make it sound so simple, but I think I think it's so simple that many people forget this, just that just that idea of, well, there's your the people that you want to get in front of, and where do they already hang out? And instead of just seeing all these bright, shiny objects and saying, Oh, I could do Google ads, YouTube ads, LinkedIn ads, instead of all that, you say, well, instead of, instead of like driving yourself crazy, and looking at all the places where you could advertise and guessing when you look at where they hang out, and keeping in mind that not everything you do is always trackable, but that's not a reason not to do it. And I have this kind of conversation all the time, especially like with the podcast guest and like you're mentioning, like when people say, Well, should I really be on podcast? Is it really worth it? Because I spend X amount of hours and all the Simon it's like, well, they say like, well, I get these these clicks in these views, it's like, but if it gets you the a few clients, or it gets you the right people, then maybe the numbers might be low, or not quite yet where you want them to be. But if it leads to the sales, or if it gets you in touch with the people that you want, then it all kind of adds up if you adopt the these good habits that you should be doing. And you mentioned about the third party locations of not just being stuck in your bubble. And it's really tempting to say, okay, cool, LinkedIn, I'll just post all over my wall. And you say, well, you can get yourself out there, you can go to that trade show, you know, by that, that booth space via another podcast, and just do other things that are maybe outside of your comfort zone, but also outside of your network so you can reach the people that you should be reaching and you don't have to try so dang hard.

Speaker 2 17:32 Right. You know, it really think like there's been statistics based on research Gartner has done in the last year that have come out that have indicated 72% of b2b buyers would prefer a rep free sales experience when they're making a purchase, you know, and they've also indicated that within the next couple of years, 80% of the buying decision process will be complete. When a b2b prospect even is willing to talk to a sales rep. What that means is the job of a sales rep is getting harder and harder, because people don't want to talk to them. And so I think when you're thinking about demand generation, a really important thing to consider is that your digital footprint needs to become your best salesperson. Because it's doing 80% of the work. And so if as an organization, you take a step back and and you can't say I've got this deep, broad, strong digital footprint, it's going to catch up to you. But you know, especially as more and more people get on the bandwagon, it's 72%. Today, it's going to be 90% Tomorrow, and you know, at some point, people are going to in general pushback even more about talking to a salesperson. And so you've got to find ways as an organization to help those people go through the buying process. Without it being a one to one sales interaction every single time.

Robert Plank 19:11 Well, you're giving me a flashback from a few months ago, where I was on a call with a client and I can't remember what system it was exactly. But he had like this shopping cart over here, and this accounting software over there. And he's like, I want them to talk to each other. And we were doing some googling. We found some web page and we're like, I think they work together and we found one of those like those like tables were like some things were a checkmarks were like I think this is it when we were saying Well Is this like a new software is up to date, and we were like okay, let's just let's buy it and use it when we can see if it works pretty quickly. And then it was like we need to call a sales rep and schedule a call or go online chat. I'm just thinking like, I just I want it so you're giving me those flashbacks and things like that of like putting obstacles in place to preventing someone from buying from you which is It sounds ridiculous work from when you're on the outside looking in. But I can completely understand how if someone is too close to their business, or not asking these important questions, or if they've just always been doing things, the same old way, how it's easy to fall into that trap of putting these, these, like huge roadblocks in front of all these people, they want to buy from you, they want to give you their business, they want to give you their money, but they're like, you're you're shooting yourself in the foot, you're making it too difficult on yourself. So these have been some just really enlightening eye opening conversations about about how just, it needs to be simple. And there's there's kind of fundamentals here. But I want to make sure we sneak in before we finish the conversation about some of this cutting edge stuff. Because you said in your bio, that you're you kind of skate on the cutting edge of marketing innovation. And even before we started recording, you were talking about like sending an email, you can send an AI bot to a Zoom meeting to have it attended for you do all these cool things. So and it doesn't have to be talking about that. But what has you interested in the cutting edge of marketing with all the bright shiny objects out there? What's something that's kind of on the horizon that maybe we should pay attention to?

Speaker 2 21:10 Oh, that's a great question. You know, I think, honestly, the the market has been going, you know, so heavy on the technology. And there are so many marketing technologies out there. Now. I mean, last I saw there was nearly 5000 different types of marketing technology. I would actually say, you know, I see organizations that time that make huge investments, they're buying intent data systems, they're buying, you know, database systems, they're buying marketing automation, they're buying analytics systems, and trying to mash them all together. And they're actually overcomplicating it. So you know, I'm kind of going the opposite of what you just gave me credit for. But I feel like people, you know, marketers, we've gone so far down the tech scape, that we've overcomplicated things. And I think sometimes we need to take a step back and go back to the basics of what's going to work. How are we going to make it is that being said, I think technology can actually, you know, be really beneficial it for gaining efficiencies, for example, like it, it blows my mind, how many organizations don't even have marketing automation yet? Marketing automations been here for what 15 years, at least already, you know, it seems like with the efficiencies you can create in being able to reach out to more people that it's a no brainer, but there are so many organizations that just haven't gotten to that point yet where they realize that making those investments matter. And so I think, you know, as an organization, and a lot of times I see it for an organization, that's probably around 10 million in revenue in the tech space, and they're, you know, they got a round of investment in private equity and being told, okay, now it's time for high growth, what do we do? Like, that's the point where it's time to really think about how do we scale and to start to look at the technology solutions. And I would say, walk before you run, because you can you can spend hundreds of 1000s of dollars building out a tech stack if you you know, really wanted to, but if you don't know how to use it, and how to, you know, maximize its value, you're throwing money away, and you could be doing more simplistic things and getting more traction. I like that

Robert Plank 23:35 a lot. Go in and examine if you have that foundation first. So that way you can do some of these really simple things and plug the leaks and get and get the best bang for your buck to throw like four metaphors in there at once and even throw another metaphor. It's like, let's say you had never attended the third grade. But you say I want to go and get my PhD. And it's like well, you know, there's something that you should probably do first just to you know, get your make your website mobile responsive, just to make sure that you have consistent traffic are you doing, you know, follow up with your customers? Are you removing some of those obstacles from someone opting in or buying and maybe like plug those leaks first and then once you do then there are these fantastic opportunities with the the automation and the scaling etc, that are available to you as long as you do things in the right order. Because if you go and do the advanced stuff first before doing that foundational then it won't work and then you'll be frustrated. And you see it didn't it didn't work. I'm so confused. Why is there so much hype and it didn't work for me? Well, because you did things in the wrong order. So these are all really interesting things. Yeah. Interesting to think about because it's just it's there's so many ways to go wrong. If you go it alone, right if you don't have a marketing company, such as growth mode marketing, to tell us what to do and what not to do and see that low hanging fruit and so can you tell us about grow? With mode marketing, and what your uniqueness is, because we were talking about that what's unique? And who is that ideal audience who really needed to contact you yesterday?

Speaker 2 25:10 Yeah, so we are a b2b marketing agency that specializes in demand generation marketing. And we work with organizations that tend to be 10 million to 250 million in revenue. With growth initiatives. We have a lot of experience in the HR technology space, that's a very overcrowded market. And so we love helping them really figure out how to break through that clutter, and sound different from the other individuals and really, you know, make demand generation work for them.

Robert Plank 25:44 Well, fantastic. And what is the website? And what's next step? If someone is one of those, those companies that's in that right size? And in that industry? How do they take the next step with you?

Speaker 2 25:56 Yeah, so growth mode, marketing's website is growth mode. marketing.com. And if you're not ready to work with an agency, you can still get demand generation thoughts, insights and tips by following me Deanna Shimoda, on LinkedIn, or subscribing to our podcast, which is called the demand gen fix. And that's available on Apple podcast, Spotify, YouTube, and anywhere else, you'd find podcasts.

Robert Plank 26:21 Fantastic. So that's the demand gen fix podcast, that is Deanna Ishimoto, on LinkedIn, and growth mode marketing.com. So that way, if all this stuff seems overwhelming, there's there's so much to do, ease yourself into it. So that way you can get on the path to, to maybe begin to slowly decrease the lead generation as you ramp up the demand generation. And that way you can actually think things through have a long term strategy, see the results based on your effort, instead of just relying on luck or wondering what the heck happened. So that way, you could have a real sustainable, stable business. And the very next step is to go to growth mode marketing.com and those other links that we mentioned, so that way, you can actually get on the right path and stop driving yourself crazy. Stop getting so angry, stop wondering, Am I so burnt out your business can be on the path that it should be? So as we're wrapping up our conversation here, Deana, do you have any final parting words of advice, you have like a favorite quote, or like an aha that you wish you'd had? 15 years ago? anything come to mind there?

Speaker 2 27:32 Oh, my gosh, put me on the spot. I, you know, I would just say, you know, like, if you haven't started doing demand generation to give it some serious consideration, and to learn more about what it is and how it can help you because if it's done well, it truly can be a catalyst to growth. And you know, it improves the quality of leads that are coming into your organization, which means you have shorter sales cycles, higher close rates, and ultimately, you know, more valuable customers over the long haul, because they've, they've bought into the story that you're telling, and they're, they trust you.

Robert Plank 28:13 And it sounds more fun for everyone involved, right? Sounds like a more fun business. More fun buying experience. So tapping on that story, as well as demand generation and the very next step is to go to growth mode. marketing.com and we will see you there. D of wine podcast.com forward Slash Free. Go there right now to see what you could be missing in your podcast. Maybe you aren't active enough on social media. Are you writing and broadcasting an email for every episode of your podcast? Do you follow up with your podcast guests? Do you do things to make your podcast interview and content creation easier? Go to d f y podcast.com/free to claim your gift right now.