1214: Ethercycle: Shopify Strategies to Own and Achieve Success in Your Sales Channels with Founder Kurt Elster

Robert Plank 0:04 Hey, what is happening? We are back with very long time return guest, Kurt Elster, who has been a Shopify partner since 2011 now, Kurt helps e commerce brands thrive in the digital marketplace. He's the founder of ether cycle. They are a boutique Shopify consultancy, and Curt has worked with top tier merchants like Jay Leno's Garage to uncover hidden profits and create exceptional online shopping experiences. But even better, he is known as the host of the unofficial Shopify podcast over 2 million downloads, and Kurt is a trusted voice for merchants looking to grow their Shopify stores and master e commerce. So let's talk about it. Let's talk about e commerce, growing a company dealing with the ups and downs and most importantly, Kurt is going to set us straight about owning our own distribution channel. That way, you don't have to be at the whims up the Google gods, the Facebook gods, the YouTube gods, the Instagram gods, you name it, you build a real business that lasts, that grows so Kurt glad to be speaking to you again after, I think maybe six or seven years.

Kurt Elster 1:09 Yeah, thanks for having me back. Man, it feels like no time. And then, you know, at the same time, so much has changed, right? That was 2017 that's the before times, right? That was before a pandemic wildly accelerated and changed some things for us.

Robert Plank 1:24 Yeah, 100% and the pandemic, I think for me, is a blessing in disguise, because the zoom and the video chat and the podcasting, it's become more mainstream, and then coming out of the pandemic, LinkedIn really developed. So it's been a great way to reconnect with people like you and maybe get in touch with people you otherwise wouldn't have been able to write email addresses change and bounce, and Facebook isn't really a business place. So So much has changed, so much continues to change, and especially with E commerce. Back then, a lot of people were figuring it out. It was the Wild West. But now, like you said, we said before we hit record. Shopify has TV commercials, and it's amazing what's happening. And so what has been happening with you? What has blown your mind? What have you accomplished? What is noteworthy and newsworthy to speak about right now?

Kurt Elster 2:13 Well, I think so. I mean, I've been a Shopify partner since, geez, 2011 2012 and so it has been tremendous to watch that platform grow, and as a Shopify partner, just the whole time bit pat myself on the back about hitching my cart to the right horse, of course, sure. And with that, you know, developing agency services and and honing those things and really figuring out, like, where is our sweet spot, and ultimately, what I'm doing now versus 10 years ago, nothing has materially changed, but the way we go about it, the output, the result, all of it is, is better, is faster, is more efficient, is more profitable. And that feels pretty good, right? I some people want to borrow money. I like bootstrapping. Some people want to grow big teams. They want big teams. I don't necessarily want that. Honestly. I don't think lifestyle business is a evil label, and I have been quite successful and happy growing a modestly growing a lifestyle business. But with it, we've gotten good at Shopify, store migrations, Shopify themes and growing this podcast. Oh my gosh. I think that's what we're here to discuss. You know, owning your distribution channel and so many years ago, I said, like you. I said, Well, you know, let's start a podcast, see what happens. And podcast, it was like there was cereal, and that was it, right? There was that one big podcast, and then everything else. I don't know if Joe Rogan's around yet or what. And if you just started posting right podcasts, and you kept were consistent with it, and you did a halfway decent job on a niche topic, you could grow an audience, and that worked pretty well. And so I just kept going with it, and never stopped, because we gained sponsors, right? And so now this, this podcast, this content source, has to be done every week because it is client deliverable, but it is now monetized directly in the form of those sponsorships, and indirectly in that it generates leads and opportunities that then creating the podcast has a flywheel effect where it attracts other people who want to be guests. And it's a form of networking where you get to know people and they want to work with you as well. And so just based on that, it's very attractive to own some kind of of content platform, right? Because you now have something to offer. You have an audience. But for me, you know, I want, when I reach out to a guest that I'm like, I want them on the show. It's because I want to have an interesting conversation with them, and the audience just happens to benefit from it. The thing that recently has accelerated our growth with that podcast is going in on video, which sounds silly, but you know, when podcast was inherently audio and always was I. And so then, you know, trying to adapt that to video. And then, initially, like video now, long form interviews, not necessarily working well on YouTube to today. I now religiously, you know, we edit and publish two forms of the podcast. We do the audio one and the video one and put it on on YouTube. YouTube has become the, the platform, the distribution channel, for discoverability on podcasts, or just, yeah, podcast discoverability. And so I don't think, like I just, I don't think it's a choice anymore. So that's worked out well for me. It's worked out well for you and other podcasters. But owning a distribution channel like that not limited to podcasts, right? I think you just need, you want to develop an audience that is, in some ways, platform independent, right? Like, if my audience is entirely on Twitter, it's like 80% Elon Musk's audience 20% mine. And I do the you know, those social media audiences are great, but if we think back to Facebook, there was a time where it's like, you just Facebook posts were great and Facebook groups were great and pages were great. I man, I don't even particularly use Facebook anymore, and just to get any reach on a Facebook page, you got to pay to promote that post. Whereas, you know podcasts, where, when you own a distribution platform, whether that's an email list, you know, a podcast, etc, you have control over it, where it is much more difficult for someone, you know, some other for profit entity, to try and monetize your audience for you, against your will. And so it's like, yeah, you could build the audience on social, and I think that's helpful and important, but you don't want that to be like the sole acquisition channel of your business. I think years ago, someone told me, brands today should be TV stations. Used to like, think of yourself as a little TV station where you are just like a local public access station. You're scrappy, and you got to make content and the private like, it never stops. You just got to keep making content, and when you first and no one wants to do it at first because they're bad at it and they're embarrassed and it's cringy, and you just got to embrace it. You have to embrace it be like, this is going to be hilariously bad the first go around, and that's fine, because if you keep going, you get better at it, you'll build that audience, and they'll grow with you. We said a lot there, and there's a lot to think about, right? I am so sorry, but

Robert Plank 7:19 it's okay, because now there's, there's like five possible branching off points. And the other thing about us being on these video platforms these days and all the AI tools is that you have the reels, right? So what you just now said, Well, you probably felt like 15 different reels about all these ideas you had, right, about being platform independent and embracing the cringy beginning ness of it. So it's all good. It's all good stuff that you said there you're preaching on the choir, and there's, there's some good self awareness in there, especially with just getting something started, right? It's like, it's almost like, there's like, these three or four phases you discuss. It's like the the process of, like the caterpillar, right there's like, the cocoon and the caterpillar and the butterfly. And it's like, there's different kind of goals and strategies every step along the way, right at first, you're building your E commerce brand just making some content. You have to start with something, and all of the your process hasn't been figured out. You haven't figured out sponsors haven't figured out traffic, but you just kind of have to go and do it, and then once you get later on, there's kind of these other rules that end up being established, and then you kind of like, have to, in a way, keep putting out your content. But I think from all the stuff you said there, there's the need to be independent, and that's what's great about somehow they finally figured out with podcasting, is like, they're like, Hey, have your podcast. Put it on Spotify, put it on Apple podcasts, have your feed, and then you can choose to pay more attention to these other areas if they reward you. But if one day Spotify just said, like, Hey, we're we're going to be really selective about the podcast we show. We'll give Joe Rogan 90% of the traffic and everyone else to get a trickle. Then you can kind of take your business elsewhere or focus in other areas. So I think it's kind of a interesting duality, isn't it, that you have to kind of like be like, well, here's I'm everywhere, but then here's kind of like my two or three top sources where I'm getting the most benefit. You look at your traffic data, right? Look at where everything's coming from. And you say, well, here's what I enjoy, here's what I'll give some attention to. And so that's just a great roadmap, a great theory for some people. And so as far as what you have to brag about since we last spoke, these last, you know, five years, 10 years, like, what are some really big accomplishments of yours?

Kurt Elster 9:36 Oh, man, uh, millions in downloads. I'm just, I'm proud of that, because so much effort has gone into the podcast, but millions of downloads, which then led to working with some incredible partners and building some really neat websites like 2017 I would we would have recorded, and then later that year, I would have picked up what was then my dream client, Hoonigan. I had. No idea that they were going to reach out to me. You know, when you have an agency business, they say, like, your portfolio should reflect the clients you want. And I had started to put that into practice, trying to show more aftermarket automotive. Oh, yeah, that's another thing we did. Was really like, have a a niche of focus on an aftermarket automotive and E commerce, and it to support that created a ton of case studies, if you're in that position, that is fabulous content to make as case studies. But, you know, getting to work with my dream client, oh my gosh. What? What fun. And then seeing them get purchased by by wheel pros and few other, few other stories like that. The other thing that really changed the nature of our business was when I finally figured out to sell support retainers on a monthly subscription where it's like, hey, you need a few people who are exceedingly good at solving problems with Shopify. When you are a Shopify online store, and when you reach a particular size, suddenly it makes sense to just have someone on retainer, on call who could take care of the inevitable headaches that come up. And so adding that into our our agency business or service offering that really changes things. Because, you know, as a product business knows subscriptions are great. They add predictable, recurring revenue. If you're in a professional services business, having those subscription retainers is the equivalent of that versus, you know, the big, I love the big projects, the migrations and the custom theme builds, but they're just, they're less they're less predictable, and they're not recurring. And so being able to streamline cash flow for the business in that way was very beneficial, but it also lets us do, you know, more interesting, better work, right? When you're meeting regularly with someone who is invested in working with you, you know the clients who subscribe. It's been, it's been a journey, for sure.

Robert Plank 11:49 And I have to admit, like I'm, I'm definitely not very fluent in Shopify, but a lot of what you're mentioning here, there's a lot of like, WordPress parallels, right? Because a lot of these companies offer, like, the monthly maintenance, and you kind of the big jobs. And I think when we were you, I wish I'd gone back and, like, listened to our podcast, because you're kind of awakening a memory. I think that Shopify plugins might have been fairly new, or maybe there were just, like, a limited number, but I remember you mentioning kind of this idea, and it kind of blew my mind a little bit. And so as far as, like, someone like me or audience, who they know about all these possibilities, right? They know about E, commerce, Amazon, Wordpress, all these things. But as far as like, the Shopify world and what's being done and what's possible, is there anything that you think needs more education just to like, wake us up, tell us about what we need to know about Shopify.

Kurt Elster 12:41 You know, in years past, there used the misinformation we used to get about Shopify was more like it. It was comparisons to WordPress or Magento, and it was like, oh, it's limited. You can't design XYZ or it's Well, what I heard a lot that used to baffle me was bad for SEO. And then you'd be like, Okay, how or why, and no one really had an answer for you beyond maybe, like, well, Yoast, that WordPress plugin is not available for it, actually, and today, Yoast is available for Shopify. I know, I think the biggest misconception around something like Shopify isn't necessarily the platform, it's just the nature of an online store business. The hard part's never going to be coming up with the idea. It's always going to be getting anyone to care. So I think, for someone who has not built an online business before, you know you don't have walk by traffic like you are entirely responsible for all of the eyeballs that end up on the site. I think that's, that's the thing I want people understand. And so step one should always be like, Hey, let's start trying to build an email list. Let's start trying to build a social following. Then Okay, now let's start brand building. Let's start validating.

Robert Plank 13:50 I love that. And you know, I don't know if you come across this, but I find people that are like, they're I don't know if they don't know or they're afraid of this idea that traffic takes so long and takes so much work and they end up hiding behind well, I need to choose a niche. Well, what should I have on my website? What should I use to power? And I'm thinking like, it doesn't even really matter that much, what used to power? It just get something created. And if you find yourself getting stuck, and there's, like, a reason, enough of a reason to, like, you know, migrate from one system to another. Well, great, but just like, get something started, just get some people looking at it. And again, I don't know if it's like the ignorance or the fear, but as far as like that hesitate, maybe all the above, or some combination of, like, just validating your idea. And so, like, how like, do you get frustrated too? Or how can we get people past this and just get them to towards making some mistakes, getting some eyeballs?

Kurt Elster 14:47 Well, I, I think you're, I think your impression is right. I have had the exact same thought. I do think that's what's going on, is you're like, Hey, I've, you know, I've got this great, this thing. I'm, I'm really in love with this. Idea I came up with, and it's probably your first go around, right? And so there's a lot of unknown. And I think when you're moving into entrepreneurship for the first time, you're still looking for permission. You're looking for someone to say, this is okay, like you should move to the next step now and then maybe you revisit this later, because going through academia, there's always a person who is gatekeeping. And when you have a job and you are looking for a job, however, there's someone who is gatekeeping in entrepreneurship. It's you, it's all you. And so the amount of like mindset and soul searching you have to do as a an entrepreneur, especially early on, is tough, and you just got to get over that. You got to get over the cringe level, right? No one wants to be embarrassed of the thing they put out in the world. And they also don't want to face the fact that, like, when you first put something out in the world and you haven't built an audience, Well, nothing's going to happen, and no one cares. And that's frustrating, because you spent so much time building this thing you're very proud of. And then, of course, with experience, you'll discover, like, Man, I even know what I was doing the first time around. And that's a good thing. Like, every six to 12 months you should be embarrassed of the thing you built, because it means you, you grew, you knew you now know, like, this is how I do this better. And so, I mean, I this is that sign I'm giving you that permission. Please go forward, launch that thing, take the next step, whatever it is. But, yeah, I think, like, early, uh, people don't necessarily know it, but they're looking for for that permission. Like, don't I need a business license? Isn't there some kind of governing body to tell me this is all right to do? And no, there isn't.

Robert Plank 16:32 But you can get that right. You You can hire a coach, even though, then that's another thing to not do. But it's like, you can find that person who can advise you. And, and even when you're on the other side of that, like, because, I mean, we all have like friend friends in this space, right? We all have like our peers, or people we just kind of get on calls and chat with. And like, when someone tells you your idea something i i don't even know if I was doing it incorrectly, but maybe, like, five, six years ago, it's like, well, be an encouraging person, right? If someone says, Hey, I've got this idea for some new e commerce product. It's like, unless it sounds like completely terrible, be like, hey, like, get it online as quick as possible. Validate your your idea. Who am I to say that it won't work just because I wouldn't do that, or I've seen something like that that has failed. And so I think that, yeah, that's it's a very good reason to to look for the optimism, and if you can hire a coach who will get you pointed in the right direction, just to remove the hesitation and the the speed. Because another scary thing is that the people that are already in your circle, like people who are maybe like, you know, family, friends, co workers, ex co workers, whatever they're they kind of might hold you back down to their level because they don't

Kurt Elster 17:44 want to see you change.

Robert Plank 17:46 Yeah? Entrepreneurs, yeah,

Kurt Elster 17:49 Yes. They see like they know you as you are, and people are resistant to change. It is just human nature, whether it's yourself or other people. And so someone else saying, I am going to change my identity. You're saying I'm going to start a business. That's what they're hearing. You are changing. They're someone saying I'm going to change my identity, and in doing so, I am going to change, like your worldview. And so you'll have people try and talk you out of it, just because it's their natural instinct is to try and maintain the status quo. And so sometimes you may want to wait to tell people keep it a secret, like, right? Like, if you were pregnant, you wait 90 days before you tell anybody similar thing. May want to wait until it's like the business idea is kind of past the point of no return. It's already started. You're like, Well, too late trying to talk me out of it. I already did it. Yeah, no, I've seen a lot of that, and it it's frustrating,

Robert Plank 18:44 and it makes sense the way that you explain it. Because, like, I mean, we've all lost friends who, like, say, like they had a family before you did, and then, like, you kind of lost them as a friend. And then you, like, you know, had the kid later, but then that's the bridge is already burned, or, like, they're already kind of moved on. And they're, they have their new friends. And so it's, it's kind of sad, but that can happen too with the location change, job change, business change. And so as as far as the in the Spirit, we keep mentioning this topic of embracing the cringe and getting it, getting something solid, that way some sure someone can beat up your idea, but they can't destroy your idea. So in our last few minutes here, do you have a good cringy story to tell us? Because I love the idea of, kind of, like cycling and iterating and going back, and like redoing the website, redoing the brand, and kind of updating it. And I find sometimes I let websites sit right, or I let the podcast intro like it's it's years since it's been updated. And I always, I'm jealous of people that, like, update their speaker page every year or two. So do you have a fun story to share with us about the cringe and the kind of like renewing, refreshing of your product, brand, business,

Kurt Elster 19:54 the Well, I mean, just, I don't know that necessarily, have anything fun, but. It is just today I was reminded that, oh, I used to do a ton of stuff with marketing automation, with email marketing automation. I'm, like, I should, and I'd gotten frustrated and turned a lot of it off, and I went back, turned some stuff on, and discovered I had, like, I had multiple pop ups running concurrently, just like, firing right over each other. And it was probably like that for a year. No one noticed. No one told me, I'll find typos in in pages that are like years old. No one noticed. No one told me I didn't light one always drives me nuts. Typos, come on. There no excuse for a typo. My computer solves everything for you. Yeah, that stuff. But it would be stranger if you went back and revisited that stuff. And then went, Oh, this is perfect, and there's no need to change anything, right? That tells you, you you have stagnated, you have not improved at all. That's not what you want. Like, the goal, I think, is, is to be cringe, you know, embrace it

Robert Plank 20:57 at the same time I think, well, no, your turn. You go, No. I just meant well, the way that you're seeing it, there's like three possibilities, right? You look back at that old stuff you made, email, automation, website, whatever. Either it's the same now as it was then, which like you're the same. Is it better? That's not good, right? You've declined. So you do want the past to have progressed more than you want the present to have progressed better than the past. So that's just the way that you laid it out. That's how I digested but don't let me stop you.

Kurt Elster 21:32 No, I was gonna say, I think the other as long as we're on the topic of mindset and how you view these things, I think the other mistake people make early on is viewing everyone as a competitor, and really it's, you know, for the most part, most people are not not your competitor, like you and I both host podcasts. We are not competitors because someone can listen to multiple podcasts. In fact, outside of the recording, you know, before and after, I'm sure we're going to discuss podcasts and gain insight, like I give you some tips, and I'm sure you'll have some for me. The so the quote I would stick to is, you know, other than embrace the cringe, which I enjoy, do hard things, embrace the suck, and, of course, a rising tide lifts all ships. This is, like one of my favorite truisms, right? If we as a, whatever it is, as a group, culture, society, team, if things are better for a majority of people, things are better for everybody. And so I think in business, if you can look for collaborators, if you could find people to partner with, whether that's like a weekly call, somebody you could just text with and ask questions a joint venture on a product, you know, some collab product, a launch, whatever it is when you can leverage other people's experience and brands through your own relationships, that's when you really you'll experience that effect, a rising tide lifts all boats

Robert Plank 22:54 100% and I've found myself having to fight the competitive thought process sometimes, because sometimes I found someone who's like, exactly what I do, but then it's like, well, they are higher ticket, or they serve like, certain kinds of clients. So I still would fight it, and still kind of maybe for the first few minutes of a meeting, like, pretend to be nice, but then be like, Oh, hey. Like we're not competitors at all. And then I get different ideas. And there's, there's even been situations where, like, there's one guy where he, he was very similar to me, but he had a problem client, and I'm like, hey, I'll take him, and it worked out. So it's like, even if someone's like, exactly, well, maybe there's even still some kind of an exchange to be had there, at the very least some ideas or some referrals. And we've all been in that situation as well, right where they said, like, Hey, who do you know? And you think, like, hey, I can pass them off, but I can, you know, introduce this person or that person. And so it's just, yeah, there's, it's definitely, I don't know if it's a new way of doing things, but it's for sure, like, the way it's done now, versus maybe 2030, years ago, it was more of a limiting mindset. And now with social media and E commerce and everything, just like flying around so much activity, we kind of need to be social people, even if it even if it's someone that you say, like, Oh well, I don't know about how I'd get along with that person. You don't know, unless you have a conversation, and it kind of comes full circle. It's also a pitch for podcasting, right? Because some of these people, you might have been like, oh, I don't, I don't like the guy being him on a podcast. Well, hey, he's not too bad. And he's maybe smarter than I thought, or more accomplished than I thought. And I definitely want to make sure that there's time here to promote you in ether cycle. But in this last few minutes of our conversation, going on all these random topics, which is great, is there a missing, hidden question that you wish I would ask you that I just don't know? To ask you,

Kurt Elster 24:51 hmm, I don't know. Well, you know, we talked a lot about mindset, and I. With mindset, I want it. And you mentioned mindset as well. Where do you struggle? Right? Where what is difficult about maintaining a entrepreneurial mindset?

Robert Plank 25:15 Where do I answer you question about on me?

Kurt Elster 25:18 Yeah, I have an answer, but I'm asking you,

Robert Plank 25:21 I think that the maybe the managing the stress, or having like, the right amount of stress, like, I find I don't I don't want to be too relaxed, right? I tell my wife all the time, like, well, I don't want to drop the ball on this. And I find myself maybe creating, like, some stress in order to give myself an urgency to meet deadlines or push enough, or maybe overcome the hesitancy self doubt that's needed for the social interaction, to do the sales calls, to do podcasts like this one. So I just find myself I'm better than I used to be, but I find myself still creating a small artificial amount of stress in order to get things done. And I wish I wasn't that way. So that's my answer to you. Is my entrepreneurial struggle is creating the stress in order to stay, like focused and organized, because I'm kind of in it by myself.

Kurt Elster 26:17 I i like this. I think there, there are two kinds of stress. There's stress that you stress and you stress could be positive, motivating stress, and it sounds like you have mastered that as a skill. You are able to create eustress for yourself intentionally, to stay motivated and hungry and humble. And I think that's, I think that that's an underrated skill that you may have developed working as it sounds like in a solo effort. My own answer to that question is, man Doom scrolling on social media, it's so hard to not because everyone's just posting their wins, right? And it there is danger in that. Everybody's on, you know, Twitter, posting their wins, and you're reading it. And if they're like, you've seen the 20th person talk about the phenomenal thing they did, you're like, Well, clearly I am human garbage, because I have not managed all of these things in one day. And it's nuts, because you're it's like, you're comparing yourself to not just one person. You're comparing yourself to dozens of people. You're only your brain is only picking the highlights. The person who's posting is only posting the highlights and they're giving you the half truth and then not sharing, you know, all the times that things went wildly bad for them, right? Nobody's posting that stuff. Kudos to the people who do. But in even knowing all that, like, I'm able to articulate the problem with the behavior that I'm engaging in, I still do it because it sneaks up on you. You're like, oh, Twitter's fun. Oh, this word notification is Scroll, scroll. The 20 minutes later, you're like, Oh, why do I feel like I want to die? Yeah, it's because you're scrolling too long. Like social platforms not necessarily the healthiest thing at times.

Robert Plank 27:58 And what have you done with that? Because I found myself like, I barely go on Twitter, maybe this last couple of months. I say I quit Facebook, but I probably I reinstall the app, like, once a month to post pictures on my son. And then I like, take the app back off, and then LinkedIn, I told myself, like they became my primary but LinkedIn is kind of superficial in its own way also. And a lot of the times, I feel like it's all chat GBT posts, and then I generate a chat GBT comment, and then reshare and generate that chat GBT. And then I just feel so, I mean, like you talk about human garbage, I feel like a human like, AI garbage. And so

Kurt Elster 28:38 I did, for sure, it's just like a it's just chat, G, P, T, talking to itself.

Robert Plank 28:41 Yeah, yes. So, so I find myself just like, getting kind of bored with it, which I guess is good, like they say, like, with with your phone, if you get too addicted to, like, change the the color to gray scale, and then your brain doesn't get as, like, you know, turned on by it. And I feel like LinkedIn has turned into that. For me, it's become like a gray scale platform, and then, I guess, what does that leave? Like YouTube and tick tock? And so I found myself like becoming more bored with it and dialing back. But what have you done, as far as, like fixing your own I don't know, like emotional after effects on social media,

Kurt Elster 29:18 you know? So the most, the number one thing you could do is acknowledge it. You know, when you can, I was able to explain to you the issue that I engage in, and so often I'm able to identify it, and then I have to straight up, put my phone elsewhere, because if it's near me, it like it is attracted to my hand almost magnetically, like, I will put my it's just, I'll put my phone away, and, like, I'm gonna go in a, you know, I'll put it in my bedroom, and then, like, I'm going into a different floor without it, and by the time I'm downstairs, I'm like, how did it get back in my pocket? I don't remember picking it up and putting in my pocket. So, like, I'll intentionally just leave it in a different room. Struggle that that may be I love, you know what you said? You're like, hey, change the lock screen in the wallpaper. I did that when my phone was just a black wall. Block screen, I used it much less, but I it's so hard to resist. I put a photo of of my wife on there always, and it's seasonal. It changes with the season, and it just makes me use the damn phone more because I love my wife, and there's a big photo that I could swipe up, even though you know what's happening, it still breaks your brain, like there's still primal parts of your brain you can't defeat same with, like, the notifications, they're just meant to addict you. And so I I never installed the native apps for social accounts, just to try and slow them down. I do everything logged in, and I have two factors. So it's such a pain to like, once I've logged out an account, tough to log back in. And then on my desktop, I use an app called freedom. And freedom will you give it a block list, and it works very well. And I have it on a schedule, like Monday through Friday. It just blocks a whole bunch of websites. And that's what it took to break me, you know, of those habits, and even then, I still want to do it.

Robert Plank 30:54 Okay? So you're saying the first step is to have some awareness, but then there's like, that period of difficulty, right? It's like if you keep eating cookies all day, every day. Well, you might have a tough couple of days giving up eating the cookies, and then maybe introduce it and have a little bit but be more intentional when it is that you're doing it. And so, man, we just, we've covered all sorts of sub topics about the entrepreneurial condition, haven't we, and, and that's the fun of podcasting, is you can go on. You can say, hey, my expertise is this, but I talk about this all day, every day. Let's kind of think outside the box. Let's embrace the randomness, right? Like the you mentioned about like, like Joe Rogan. I mean, I we all have mixed feelings, right? About like Joe Rogan, Elon Musk, but there was the one of those a couple of times when Elon Musk was on Joe Rogan, and like, they had this deep conversation, and he'd ask you, Elon, like, some question, he kind of sit there for like, 1020 seconds, like thinking of, like a really good answer. And so that's the fun of podcasting. Are you going to have these deep conversations about whatever the heck you feel like? And it goes wherever it ends up going, but in the final minutes here, getting people back to some focus, to a call to action. Tell us about ether cycle. Tell us about you. Tell us about after listening to this conversation, what should someone be motivated to go and do?

Kurt Elster 32:12 Man, if you've got a Shopify store and you are wondering how you can improve it, and really it's, how can I make more sales? Right? That's the thing you're thinking. I just put to I've got Allegiant pop up on ethercycle.com, scroll halfway down any page, this thing will pop up and offer you a free screencast, audit and church, put in Name, Email website. I will spend five to 10 minutes. I will record a screencast going through your site and send it to you with advice. You know, personalized, real deal like, not, I'm decided to do something that doesn't scale. That's, you know, earlier I mentioned, like, Man, I used to be really into marketing automation. I got to get back into it. So I'm, I'm getting back into it with a pop up and something that doesn't scale. And it's that. So give that a shot. Otherwise, you know, Google me. Kurt Elster, check out the unofficial Shopify podcast. Lots of interviews with merchant entrepreneurs,

Robert Plank 33:03 very cool. And I like that idea that doing something that doesn't scale, because there's like, very I mean, not everyone will fill that out, right? And just like if someone said already talks themselves out of doing podcasting and say, Oh, it's all this time commitment, well, how many people will actually go on on a podcast. It's kind of a limiting gate, keeping barrier, in a good way. And so that's a great idea. And it kind of, I'm sure it tickles the automation this of your brain, right? To get that back, because it's like, well, there's the pop up, but I imagine it like, sets up tasks for you, and so that way you can just, like, bust things out. And so everybody wins, right? Because they get this kind of personalized free deliverable. And then for you, it ends up kind of keeping your finger on the pulse of the marketplace. It gives you all this great content case studies, and I'm sure that funnel wise, it has helped you, because that's a way to stand out, right? Everyone else has a video or a report or something, you're like, hey, this is your actual site. And here's me doing an actual screencast audit, giving you some ideas of what to soup up and improve. So you said there's the unofficial Shopify podcast, there's Kurt Elster do that. Google search. That's E, L, S, T, E R and then the official website here is ether cycle.com that's E, T, H, E, R, C, Y, C, L, E.com, they turn your Shopify store into a revenue generating powerhouse of persuasion. Ether cycle.com and as we're wrapping up our conversation here, Kurt you know podcasting, you know that we like to end with a bang instead of a whimper. So in the final sound bite, tick, tock, YouTube, short, real sort of context. Do you have an interesting, fun quote or lesson that has served you that you can pass on to us?

Kurt Elster 34:53 I absolutely do. When you are stuck on any problem and you are just tearing your hair. You're not sure what to do. Ask yourself, What would someone smarter than me do? And the chances are you already know the answer. It was just that, that permission setting mindset, and so when you reframe it, suddenly you're like, Oh, I know what to do,

Robert Plank 35:16 nice with a sound effect and everything. So if you're out there in E commerce land, stuck with your Shopify store. What would someone smarter than you do? Well, that you might ask Kurt Elster for help, so you can go to ethercycle.com and we talked about all these entrepreneurial ideas, like getting a coach, getting encouragement, someone telling you it's okay to proceed. So go to ethercycle.com scroll halfway down the page, you'll see that pop up and take Kurt up on his offer for him to do that screencast audit. That way you can do what someone's smarter than you would do, which is ask for outside help from your your higher entrepreneurial power, right? Your business coach. And so check out ethercycle.com you'll love it. And thank you very much, Kurt for giving us like, I don't know, like, I feel like we could write a book now, right? We have like these, like these 20 laws, or these 20 things that entrepreneurs should do. So I really appreciate the conversation.

Kurt Elster 36:09 I think it sounds like there's an info product coming down the road here, but I appreciate it. Thank you so much.

Robert Plank 36:17 U of wine podcast.com, forward, slash, free. Go there right now to see what you could be missing in your podcast. Maybe you aren't active enough on social media. Are you writing and broadcasting an email for every episode of your podcast? Do you follow up with your podcast guests? Do you do things to make your podcast interview and content creation easier? Go to dfy podcast.com/free, to claim your gift right now you. Transcribed by https://otter.ai