1220: Self-Publish Your Expertise to Build a Lasting Legacy with Scribe Media CEO Eric Jorgenson

Robert Plank 0:04 Eric, Hey, welcome back. It's the marketer of the day podcast, Mr. Eric Jorgensen is here from scribemedia.com and so scribe media is the company that you can and should talk to if you are serious about professional publishing services to help you market your book, to help you write your book, they help entrepreneurs, executives and experts, write, publish and market their books, because it's not just a book, it's your legacy. So Eric, glad to be speaking with you. Thank you for having me. So I did my best to kind of introduce you. Talk about scribe media, but what are you up to? What's your focus? What's your passion? What's your message for us today?

Eric Jorgenson 0:45 Yeah, this company is all about helping, as you mentioned, specializing in entrepreneurs and executives, but helping people write and publish books that are useful to them in their lives, right? I think the whole history of traditional publishing is really about like, how do we sell as many hard, copper hardback copies of a specific book as we can, and there's just a million reasons to write a book in a million ways that a book can help impact a cause, grow your business, leave a legacy, give back to your community. And so we've now worked with 1000s of authors who want to write and publish their book for their own reasons, and maintain their full rights, their full financial upside, most importantly, and creative control over their books. So that you know, this book that's out there with their name on it that's going to outlive them, represents them and their ideas and their thoughts and their beliefs. So you know, traditional publishing is really only for a very small fraction of the population, but there's millions of people out there who want to write a book, and it is our privilege to help them do that at a very, very high level for quality and polish,

Robert Plank 1:48 very cool. And so you said a lot of really cool things in there, right? That you're a book, it should be something that's useful. It should be your legacy, and that there's kind of a lot of moving parts going into it and and sometimes it's fun to think about and geek out about the whole, like, book marketing ideas. And it's the marketer of the day podcast. I remember when I was a kid reading about L Ron Hubbard, he wrote like, this group of 10 books, and they were, like, cheesy sci fi books. I don't know if you're hurt, like it was like Battlefield Earth, but there's like, 10 other books and, like, they were so terrible, but I loved him so much. And there was this whole thing of, like, in the 80s, all the Scientologists, like, they went to bookstores and, like, bought out all the copies and returned them. And I thought, like, stuff like, that's always kind of interesting to think about. Like, that's not what we want to do, but it's always this fun idea of, like, okay, like, what are our numbers, what's kind of like, our campaign. And I guess the whole point with in that kind of project they had was to, like, get on the best seller list and get some kind of momentum. And so just kind of in the spirit of that, like, Do you have a fun story to kick us off about, like, in the this crazy publishing world, right, where you say that sky media is all about doing it right, and putting a lot of polish on it, and like doing a full kind of campaign, like, what do you have to share with us about something really cool that scribe has done? Well,

Eric Jorgenson 3:08 I think that story is a funny 1l. Ron Hubbard is maybe one of the most legendary stories of what a book the impact that a book can have, right like, who else is in the modern day started a religion based off of a book, especially a fiction book. The open secret kind of in the industry that some marketers might know but a lot of readers don't, is that the best seller lists are all very explicitly sort of gamed, and editorial is maybe a general word for it, right? Like the books on the New York Times bestseller list are not the best selling books of that particular day, week, month or year. They are just the books that The New York Times chooses to highlight. And there are all kinds of people sort of manipulating those lists intentionally or with help from professionals, but our focus is really on almost everybody that we work with has a life goal that they are pursuing, that a book can help them achieve, right? And so it is not about getting a best seller status or selling x specific number of copies. It is usually about, hey, I run a business that acquires financial planning service firms like this is a specific example. Paul Franco wrote a book called successful successions, and it is a book for retiring financial planners about how to transition their business, how to make the most effective sale of their business, what they should look for, what they should look out for. And so when they buy this book, because they have this problem, and they read it, and they learn how to solve this problem. A lot of the readers of this book then call Paul and sell their business to him, because they just got familiar with him through the process of reading this book and feeling like they trusted him and his expertise and how he was going to steward their business. And so in that case, a book is basically the best marketing spend he's ever done. It's what drives so much of his. Business, and you see over and over and over again, inflection points in people's career or business, whether it's a speaking career, a coaching career, a consulting business, investing firm like Paul's that came from a book that became this representation of this person's expertise, their excellence, their philosophy, their beliefs, their mindset, and it is a medium that is just so it is so difficult to produce a great book, and it requires so much time and investment and expertise that when you see somebody who has written a great book, that is the signal that proves that this person is worth working with. And that's you know, but it takes expertise and professionalism to actually write and design and get this book ready to print and out to market. So that's what we help people do, is sort of go from this idea stage of I'm an expert. I know I've solved this problem. I know I help clients. Help me package that into this medium of a book for the betterment of my readers and the impact of my goals.

Robert Plank 5:59 Very cool. So I like how you put this. It's a representation of what you believe in and your expertise, with the goal of someone picks this up and says, Hey, I need to solve this accounting problem, this life problem, health problem, legal problem, whatever. And then they get to the end, and they're so impressed that they contact you and hire you for their services. And it seems like there's kind of, like three tiers. There's like the two you said, and then there's near the end that there was, like an almost an unspoken one, right? There was the, like, the I just want to gain the numbers. I just want to be New York Times bestseller, which, like, you hear about that a lot, and you're saying, Well, hey, like, what's, what's that really for, right? That's just kind of make might you might be good. If you're a vanity, you feel good. But that's not really the game that you want to be playing in. And you're saying this kind of, like, middle ground here is we want to put out this really good book that changes some lives, that wakes people up, that generates some business. And then there's maybe, like, the bottom tier of, like, anyone can just upload a Word document and put anything on Amazon. So you're saying that it has to be really good, and it has to be kind of this idea is nurtured. And I first came across scribe back when it was called book in a box. And Tucker Max was talking about this whole idea of like, and I read his book back then too, and it was like, you you speak out everything that you want to say and get it transcribed. And then, like, look at the transcript on one column, and then like, rewrite it into like, you know what, what it should have said. But even then, it's not finished, right? You kind of, like, keep going, and you're iterate and churn. And so like this idea of taking all these random thoughts ideas in your head and like, packaging them into like, stories in the proper order and making it long enough but also short enough to be exciting and not giving everything away. It's enough to drive a person crazy. So what is your advice or thoughts about when a future author comes to scribe and says, hey, help me? Like, what's that timeline like, What's that process like?

Eric Jorgenson 8:03 Yeah, so if we are interviewing you and writing the book for you, which is pretty common, that's our that's our bread and butter, and that's what most busy entrepreneurs choose to do, because it's the highest leverage on their time. That process takes about 12 months, give or take, depending on how fast you want to go. And it's about six months of interviews and us doing the writing, and you sort of confirming that the writing is in your voice, it has the right stories, and working on that manuscript together. And then about six months of publishing, design, Polish, graphics, and all the final files that go into publishing and distributing a book, that total investment of your time is like 50 to 100 hours, and then we've got the experts in the back end, putting in the hundreds and 1000s of hours to actually do the work of the writing and editing and design work. If you've already written a book, then bring it to us and we'll just edit, Polish, proofread, and go through the design process. There's a whole smattering of different sort of ways that we help people, but if you're early in the journey, I would say you can pick up. We've written a book about this called describe method, and so if you just want to learn some of the tips and tricks, or get a feel for what the process is like or understand, you know, what are good, clean goals? What can you expect? What can you not expect? There's free, digital versions available of the scribe method on our website. So if you just look that up, or you buy a copy on Amazon or audible, it is a truly great book that Tucker and Zach wrote originally, as you mentioned when they were starting this business and sharing everything that they know about writing a bit, writing a book and using it to build your business,

Robert Plank 9:43 very cool, and it blows my mind, but also excites me about these, these big numbers that you talk about, right? You talk about, like, 100 hours of this, and you talk about a 12 months of that. And I love that. And so that way the end result can be that you're having a conversation. Or a podcast like this one, and you just, like, drop your booking, right? You say, Well, hey, I've got some things to say, and there's not enough time to fit it all in. But if you'd like that deep dive, find out what we're all about, then here's the book. Go and get it. And so as far as people going through this process on a podcast, it's always fun to talk about the mistakes, the missteps, right? And so you always hear about this advice of people saying, well, like, make sure you know what your book is for, like, what's the end goal. Make sure you know, like, who your audience is. Are there any mistakes that authors make, either with you or without you, that just drive you crazy, plenty,

Eric Jorgenson 10:37 and it's our job to steer you away from all of those. But I think it goes to, you know what you said there, which is, it is very important to understand who you're speaking with. And so I think one of the big mistakes authors make is they picture themselves sitting on a stage in front of 1000 people trying to please all of them, instead of imagining that they're sitting across the table from one person who's very interested in learning from their expertise and their wisdom, and just speaking or writing to that one very specific person. It is almost impossible to overdose on specificity, and you never want to hold back. So I truly think like write as though you're sitting across the coffee table from a family friend and you're trying to teach them every single thing you know and demonstrate your expertise absolutely to the utmost. This is the feeling of a good book, like when you are really, really immersed in a book and really learning, and you really find it valuable. You take action based on a book. It's because someone was an unprecedented level of expert, honest, clear they really shared everything that they have with you. So don't treat this like it will help grow your business, but don't treat it like a email marketing lead funnel. Treat it like the the utmost demonstration of your expertise. Treat it like you planting the flag of everything that you know and everything that you believe and everything that you can give to help someone else, and that's how your book is going to become the go to resource for people with the problem that you know how to solve. It's when people gift books to each other, and that's when someone's going to finish reading your book and pick up the phone and call you. You want that to be the thing that people like, imagine how great your business would be, how prepared your customers would be, how fast you'd be growing. If you could spend five or 10 hours in private, one on one, conversations with every potential customer. Like, not possible, but theoretically amazing. So the best, next best thing to do is to construct you know five to 10 hours of your very most persuasive content, your best self, everything that you know and demonstrate your expertise should show all the stories of everything that you've gone through and everything that you've learned, and put it in a format that they can consume on their own time, and by the time they're done with this experience that they've opted into and this timeless medium that they associate with the most brilliant thinkers in the world. What else is there to do?

Robert Plank 13:10 Right? They're warmed up by the time they meet with you, they've already met you, and that's always a fun aspect of the internet, right? You go to like, an event or conference or podcast like this, and you've already, like, listened to the person's podcast, you already watched the person's video, you already like, read their book or looked at their social posts. It's it's happening more and more, isn't it? This idea of like, you know someone without knowing that, right? It's like you you meet. It's like meeting an actor, right? Meeting a hero. It because you meet, like, this author, this expert, and you're already kind of pre loaded with a lot of their content. And so, like, you know them, but you don't know them. And so that's possible because they were specific, they stood for something. And you know, we've all, at some point in life, fallen into we had to, like, write that term paper in school, and we got stuck, and just, like, started writing for everyone and just made, you know, 510, pages of just like, useless garbage. And so you're saying that we need to be sitting across the table from someone who has this real need, this real problem, and and tell them some things, right? Like be exciting, and get them to get to the end, get them take action, get them to share this with their friends. And that's beautiful, and that's magical. And, you know, in this, in this current, modern day, right? There's all these digital books, and you hear all these, like, really sad statistics, right? Because with the Kindle books, they they know how many people open the books, how far they read, and you hear all these things, like these huge percentages, right? 90 plus percent buy the book, don't open it, don't read past the first chapter, first page. And so that requires some humanity, doesn't it? And so I find myself the past year or two, especially second guessing, with all the AI stuff, right? Because you go on LinkedIn, everything's AI. Sometimes I read, like, Reddit posts, I read books, and I'm like, I think the. Whole thing is AI. And so there's that kind of fear of like, will it turn into all the books are AI generated, and then everyone will just feed it back into AI to summarize, and then it'll just be, where are the humans in that? So do you have these thoughts? Do you think about, or are you concerned about generative AI, just messing with the publishing industry,

Eric Jorgenson 15:21 I think it will represent change, but the fundamentals of the industry are that the very best works tend to absolutely dominate spaces, and I think AI will help the best writers and the most expert authors increase their quality level and produce either more work or even better work. I think the long tail of like bullshit will continue to get longer and be more bullshitty. I totally agree, but that you are absolutely right. The signal matters so much, and you have to it takes expertise to like grab attention in the first sentence, the first page, the first chapter, and really focus the message on a real problem that draws people through and arrange the information in the right order like that's the art. And I think AI, as helpful as it is, still doesn't quite have the nuance of understanding what speaks to very specific audiences, what their specific problem is, what's going to resonate with them, emotionally or not? Maybe it'll get there and is growing quickly. And I am a, I am a like techno optimist, nut job, self assigned, so I just believe in using the best tool for the job. I think it's going to make the publishing industry bigger. I think it's going to raise the bar. And I'm frankly, really excited to see what's going to happen, because I think it's going to make some of our best artists and best thinkers more prolific, which can only be a good thing, but it's incumbent on the reader to filter harder on what is worth their time or not, and we as writers and authors need to acknowledge that and to be sure that we are always raising the bar to stay above it and make our make our work a good investment of time for readers filter harder.

Robert Plank 17:10 I like that. And so you're saying that like, both well and like, all of it will increase, right? All the the crap that's being put out there, but I mean it, it's it has been out there, right, ever since the days of, like, Article spinners and and, you know, all the software that, like, generates all kinds of web pages, and you know, all that's been there. It's just now there's more of it. And so now you're saying, well, that's kind of the the bad aspect of it, but the good aspect is that these creators will be able to maybe crank out the books quickly, or they'll be better and but then, as far as us, as the receivers, we have to have you say that hard filter of knowing, like, okay, is this worth my time? Just not worth my time? And it's a, it's kind of strange analogy I find myself on a daily basis. I go so far back and forth, right? I'm like, I'm so excited all, like, I'll get all this content created and all these, like, YouTube video scripts, but then I'm like, you know, isn't it going to, like, kill like, so many of the jobs? And I just It's something to really keep an eye out on. And so near the end here, I want to make sure that we focus on, there's a little bit of, like, your like, origin story, right? Like, there was, there was some drama going on with Scribe A couple of years ago. And I think that, if I understand correctly, you were an author with one of them, and you bought the company or something. So, I mean, tell us what happened. What's the scribe media drama all about?

Eric Jorgenson 18:34 Yeah, as you said about 10 years ago, Tucker Max and Zach O'Brien started the business, and it grew andgrew well, and they had, once they stepped back, the person who took over the business. I mean, 2022 like to put it generously, did a bad job, and the company had a very surprising bankruptcy in 20 mid. 2023 I was an author with scribe. I published my book in 2020 for the first time, and that was a life changing experience for me, like I my first book is now sold, like more than a million copies. It has changed my life. It is doing all of the things for me that I'm describing a book as has the possibility to do for your business, like it changed, you know, who I get to work with, and the opportunities that I have, and the quality of the conversations that I have, and the rooms that I get invited to be in or speak in. It was an incredible experience, and I loved everybody that I worked with at scribe. So when I saw this bankruptcy happen, broke my heart, and I wanted to see what I could do to help the team, help the company. And so I hit the phones and made some connections, and I found this great group enduring ventures, who essentially started a new company, bought the IP, hired some of the team, and carried on the vision of scribe, which is to provide the very highest level of quality publishing services for any author who wishes to publish their book and see their their life or their words or their expertise out in a in a really high quality form. So a year and a half into that kind of resurrection effort now, and it's been, it's been a tough, but very interesting, very inspiring like journey, and we've seen so much support, super, super grateful to see the sort of response to trying to keep this mission and this vision alive, and how many people it was really important

Robert Plank 20:25 to was there, or is there still a huge challenge in that, like, as far as, like, all the headaches that you've dealt with, as far as this resurrection, is there, like, one that stands out? As far as, like, a just a huge obstacle you've been overcoming?

Eric Jorgenson 20:38 Yeah, there's a lot of, there's just a lot of confusion, and it's very difficult to reach like the best method of addressing this is to reach everybody who was affected, one on one and have a in person conversation with them. There's a lot of context to to give, and a lot of people, you know, unfortunately, the bankruptcy was pretty sudden and pretty it affected a wide range of people negatively because of kind of how it was managed, and being adjacent to that, even though it's not like we were not in control of that, and we are just cleaning up after that, being having to explain that, or getting to explain that, or trying to explain that to A lot of people who are. You know, personally, emotionally hurt is a challenge, and we do as much of it as we can. You know, hundreds or 1000s of conversations in at this point of like just trying to rebuild this reputation through delivering excellence over and over again and rebuild our our track record that scribe was so famous for, you know, back in 2021 you know, is a really, like, impeccable reputation, and I think we're well on the way to rebuilding that. And just just this one dark chapter, like 2022 had some rough spots, but we're getting back

Robert Plank 21:56 a little blip on the radar. And you're so right that the quality of the books and the authors that come out from the scribe, I mean, it's amazing. Like, probably once or twice a year, I look at the more recently published titles and I'm like, I can't believe they, like, put out this many. And I think I've narrated like, six or seven of your guys's titles. Like, Scott mccrate is, like, probably my favorite one out of the ones, and the rest, I can't remember, but like, you guys do some pretty cool stuff. And as far as the future of scribe and what you have, what you're like tackling next, like what's coming soon,

Eric Jorgenson 22:31 you're right. We've had a great run of all I mean, David Goggins is by far the most famous author that we worked with, the best selling memoir of all time. Published both of his books with us. It may be the best self published book of all time. My book has done well. We just published leading to thrive, by Klaus Kleinfeld, who's been a fortune 500 CEO two times over. Tim urban wrote a book called What's our problem? He's an absolute god tier blogger behind Wait, but why? And so his got a really interesting, really creative book. We've worked with the Nobel Prize Committee. We've worked with Nassim Taleb and hundreds and hundreds of other authors over the past few years, as you mentioned. So there's always exciting launches coming. We've got a few, a few big ones in progress that I can't I can't steal thunder from the author's launches, but it is a very full and rewarding set of authors that we get to work with and see them go on to have success in their books and their business. It's incredible for so many. It's a bucket list item. And so like, even, like, I list the big, famous names and like, the sort of marquee authors, the stars, but like, truly some of the most rewarding to work on, for me and for the team is, like, somebody who never thought they would have a book published and it's just been their lifelong dream. And watching them, like, unbox their book and hold it for the first time, or see their name on the cover for the first time, or like, get their first designs of their cover. Even, like, people are moved to tears multiple times through this journey, and it's just so it's so, so satisfying to get to facilitate that for people,

Robert Plank 24:13 and that connects back to what you were talking about before. Of like, what, what's the emotional connection? Right? What excites people and what excites people, and what you're talking about here is that that bucket list item, right? And and not selling, like, hundreds of millions of copies, and not not being on, like every talk show because of your book, but of saying, like, Hey, I checked off this bucket list item, here's my name in print. I'm helping some people. I'm changing some lives. And I think, like a, you know, in a podcast, you're always thinking about, like, what's the recurring theme of our conversation? It seems like a lot of what's come up with you and me is this idea of, like, these one on one conversations, right? And especially like the the mid tier ones, the not necessarily knocking it out of the park, ones, like you're with here with me on a podcast. Don't have millions of downloads. I've had this podcast for 12 years, 1200 episodes. But you're like, hey, this is another stop on the SEO and the EE at and the YouTube and the apple podcast. You're kind of doing your podcast tour. And when you have these author clients, you're having these additional one on one meetings to generate the content. When you're doing kind of the wouldn't call it like a like apology to or a cleanup tour, but you're trying to smooth things over with the authors. You said, you know, one on one meetings. And so as far as what was say, like these authors go with you, and not necessarily like we said that the David Goggins, but the the ones that, like we would have wouldn't have heard of, but the right people would have heard of when these authors, they go through this 12 month process, right? They put out their book, it's time to maybe get on some podcasts, write some blog posts, get the speaking gigs. Is there a best like, bang for your book? If someone is a published author who scribe and they say, Okay, I've got the numbers up. I've got some sales going. I want to be like a Tim Ferriss and, like, keep the book selling for like, seven, eight years going strong. Is there a secret, or is there something that you wish authors would do to stay relevant?

Eric Jorgenson 26:12 Yeah, there's a, I mean, there's a whole long list of opportunities to chase down, depending on every author and what they're what they bring, what the assets are that they bring, the audience that they're trying to reach, and where their advantages lie, right? Like that's where we always start in a marketing conversation, I think. And part of the reason that I'm so evangelical about self publishing is that being self published gives you some real advantages in how you use your book, that you can cross terrain that traditionally published books just can't do. So Amazon is a very underrated search engine. A lot of people go to Amazon to solve their problem. So they're looking for a book that can teach them how to solve a problem in their business or in their life, or whatever it is. And so having a book in a really high quality landing page with a bunch of reviews on it, and then advertising actually on Amazon against keywords or related business, related authors, related books, problems, is a very underrated thing, and as the 100% owner of your royalties, you can afford a much higher pay per click than a traditionally published author who's making much, much less per book. So that's one advantage, both of self publishing, and it's a pretty reliable channel for building that long tail. And I've got people authors who are, you know, years in, still investing a lot in their Amazon ads and selling like big like big ARR software deals or big consulting deals off of their book as a discovery channel for their time, their talent and their expertise. It certainly makes it much easier to get on stages, to get on podcasts, and that outreach is very industry specific as to like, where your customers are and what's going to be relevant. We like to do pretty high touch outbound shipping campaigns of like, get people to opt in. Do you want to read my book? Do you want to receive a copy? Write a note. Copy? Write a note. Drop a sticky note. It is just a very like classy, targeted way to put yourself in front of people in a very high signal fashion. Another thing that only self published authors can do is give their book away for free. So my book is freely available in all its digital formats. You can just type in almanac of naval right now, and you'll end up on my website. You can download a PDF or a ePub or a mobi, or the audiobook. Is all on my podcast, and I think that's part of the reach of the book. And we've sold a million and a half copies, but you've given away 4 million more. And it is helps to just drive the word of mouth about this book. And I think people try the free version and sell more, and it's discoverable through SEO, and now it's getting indexed in llms. And there's just so many things that modern book marketers can do, or modern marketers can do with a book that traditional publishers don't do, can't do, or won't do, and even that authors, however good of marketers, they are, however ambitious they are, just don't have the freedom to do within the environment of traditional publishing.

Robert Plank 29:11 Well, this is exciting. I feel like I need to go and run some Amazon after Go, go and update my book pages, my book listings and like, make the keywords more juicy. And so there's so much like cool, so many cool possibilities that are out there, right? Of like, optimizing your your keywords on because, like, Amazon gives you, like, that whole description, right? They give you the subtitle, what's in the comments. So few books have even like, like video reviews made. And then I love your ideas here about running some Amazon ads, kind of revisiting your keywords, targeting what people are searching for, because, as you said, sure they might Google or they might YouTube something, but they want the real answer. So many people will go on Amazon and search their problem and then find your book, and you can do the. Yeah, like the kind of the loss leader, like you mentioned, like mailing out the copies, put it on your website, so many cool and exciting things. But it's very easy to listen to a podcast like this and not take action and say, oh my gosh, I'm like, writing down all these notes. And then what happens? They get distracted by something else. So they spend so much time on the plan that they don't actually implement because they're trying to go it alone, because they don't have a team like scribe media. And so what is the the sales pitch for scribe? I know that it's a high ticket and it's kind of exclusive. So how does somebody know if they're the right fit for scribe and what can be accomplished?

Eric Jorgenson 30:36 Yeah, as you point out, like everything that I've said has been about excellence and high quality, right? So anybody can put out a book or a shitty book, or you can spend a lot of you can do this yourself, if you are willing to spend a lot of time and effort on it. You know, I The analogy I use is like building a house. If you want to spend a lot of time on YouTube and you're okay with some wonky corners, you can build your own house. But if you hired an expert general contractor who's built 1000 houses before, it's probably going to go faster, you're probably going to probably going to save money in the long run. You're certainly going to save time in the long run, and you'll probably have a better house at the end of it. So I would scribe, is not the only one out there, but I do believe we do the very best work. And I will come back and say, like a book, there's no magic in just having a book out there. The magic is in having a great book out there that is high quality, that is a representation of you that you are proud of. And the mental test I use here is, if you are not proud and excited to send this book to the most valuable person in your network, who you're like a little nervous about looking like an idiot in front of if you're not proud to put this in front of them, you did not put enough time and effort and polish into your book, and you need to continue working on it until you are if you reach that bar, and if you clear that bar, this book is going to represent you. It's going to be a tailwind on everything else you ever do. It could be an inflection point in your business. So if you're going to like half asset or quarter asset, I would say there's probably other tactics that are better for you, but if this sounds this is resonating to you, and sounds like it might be a good fit for you and you are willing to invest the time and effort to produce a great book, go describe media.com, schedule a consult with us. We're happy to meet you. We're happy to talk through it. What's a good expectation? What's a not good expectation? Do you have like the have we seen success with books similar to yours or stories similar to yours? And we can show you kind of case studies that we may have gone through with previous authors who may be in your shoes. And just for so many people, it ends up being some of the best investment they've ever made. It's not small, it's not a it's not a like, sprinkle a little money on Google ads and see if it works. Decision, it's a I'm going to spend a year. This is going to be a big swing. I'm going to commit this year to doing this, and it'll be a multiplier effect on everything else you ever do in the future. You know it may make all your ads spend better to have you holding your book in it for the next 10 years. You may see higher conversion rates by sending it to somebody at some point in the lead funnel. You may see that yourself getting invited to different rooms. You may increase your word of mouth referrals, because your customers can gift books to each other as a way of recommending you, instead of just having to, you know, talk about you, and you don't necessarily even know that it happened. So there's a lot of good that can come from it. I've seen it. I've seen it. I've felt it myself. I've seen it happen for hundreds of other people. And we truly just love to meet authors and aspiring authors. So you can scribe media.com schedule a consult. We've got a ton of expertise in this, and if we're not the right solution for you, we're very happy to point you in the right direction.

Robert Plank 33:38 So that is scribe media.com S, C, R, I, B, E, M, E, D, I, A.com, scribe, media.com you say, go there. Click on that, schedule a console button, have that conversation, keeping in mind that this is a serious commitment. This is year long. As you said, it's not just sprinkle some Google ads. It's Hey, do I want to create my legacy? Do I want to create this book or I will be remembered? Do I want to raise my status and be in in better circles, be invited to scarier, more important rooms before and like, change my life trajectory? Scribe media are the people that will help you get there. And as we are sending people to scribe media.com, here, Eric, as we wind down our conversation. This is the part of the show where I like to put my guests on the spot a little bit and try to maybe stump them and ask them for a quote or lesson that has served them that they can pass on to us. So in the spirit of putting you on the spot, is there a quote or lesson that has served you that you can share with us?

Eric Jorgenson 34:41 I will say I'm always trying to learn to embody this better, but that someone once told me it is always possible to be both honest and kind at the same time, and I aspire to do that.

Robert Plank 34:56 Let's do it and let's all do it honest and kind at the same time. You in all aspects of life, in your conversations and in your book and in your legacy. So go to scribe media.com to create that life changing, world changing book that is honest, that is kind, that has your perspective, that has you embodied, that will outlive you. Eric and his team are here to help you do it. Scribe media.com and thank you very much Eric for showing up, stopping by and giving us a roller coaster thrill ride about the ins and outs in the publishing industry. I appreciate it.

Eric Jorgenson 35:29 Thank you for having me. I so admire the persistence of 1200 episodes over 12 years. You're You're a marathon running hero of podcasting. You

Robert Plank 35:42 This is Robert Plank from dfy podcast.com, forward slash free. Me and my team are super excited to jump into your podcast, whether it already exists, whether it's brand new, whether it's just in the idea stage, set up a call and contact us today. Claim your free gift at DFI podcast.com/free, and we will see you there you. Transcribed by https://otter.ai