1415: The Competitive Edge: How CEOs Can Find Hidden Cash Flow and Boost Growth with Thought Leader and Speaker Jeff Baldassari

Robert Plank 0:01 When a CEO is stuck, they don't need more guesses, they need better options, and that's what Mr. Jeff Baldessari is here to help us out with. He is the founder of the competitive edge group, and Jeff has a track record of unlocking hidden cash flow, building scalable systems and delivering a 100k growth guarantee for companies doing $3 million plus in revenue. Mr. Jeff Baldessari, we're going to talk today about leadership teams getting stuck, getting unstuck, balancing quick wins with building long term systems and so much more. So glad to see you. How are you today?

Jeff-Baldassari 0:39 I'm doing great, Robert. It's going to be a lot of fun. So I'm looking forward to the quick to the questions and trying to help out our listeners and give them some some some value that they can apply right away, and get some quick, quick wins and quick, quick hits so they can put these little tidbits into action right away. As far as the CEOs and like, where they're stuck and what they're thinking like when they come to you, what do they say? What are their struggles? What do they have before they find you? Typically, they're one and they're one of three buckets, if you will. The first bucket is things are going great, and they're on their way to whatever their goal is, to grow to 5 million, 10 million, 20 million, whatever the number is that doesn't really matter. But their concern is they don't have the they recognize they don't have the internal framework to support the growth. And what their fear is, all this growth is going to be for naught. So they come to me like, can you build the internal structure to support the growth so I will sleep better at night knowing that all this business we're capturing will not be for you know, all loss in the end. The second group is, they're doing okay. The things are starting to flat line. They're starting to they're starting to curl back. And the the trajectory is is not as steep as it used to be. And they're realizing, you know what, everything's got a shelf life, every every strategy, every initiative. And they're realizing this one, whatever, which one they're using, is starting to peter out. So they're looking for new ideas to put into the system before the current ones completely peter out. And the third group is they're out of options. They've hit the crossroad, you know, and they've reached a point where we all know the decisions

Jeff-Baldassari 2:19 everyone else makes. We see the decisions they make, but what we don't see is the options they have. And this group is out of options. So they come to us, Leslie and I, to decide, how do we create better options for them? What else can they employ? What else? What other approaches can they take to overcome the challenges they're facing because they don't know what to do. They've exhausted everything that they've known to do, or what to do in such situations.

Robert Plank 2:44 Okay, so there's one of those three problems, and they just need more brains to fix things, to right the ship. And part of your offer, which is very interesting, is you promised us 100k cash flow increase in 12 months. And so what's that all about? And like, what do you look for when you're diagnosing a struggling business?

Jeff-Baldassari 3:04 Just start asking questions. You know, when Leslie and I go in, we we bring a fresh perspective. You know, I have 21 years as a CEO in manufacturing. I've served on seven boards. I've passed the CPA practice law, the national law firm. I have a lot of variety in my career and a lot of good experience. So I've seen a lot in my career. Leslie, 34 years at enterprise, rent a car, 22 years as an executive at enterprise. She too has a lot of experience, so we bring a fresh perspective, no preconceived notions, and by asking a different question and looking at it with a sense of curiosity, not an ability or a desire to confirm or to confirm our belief system. And we don't want our CEOs to do that either. We want them to be curious, explore and look at things through a different lens. By doing that, we have a different conversation, and then we blend the institutional knowledge of our clients to co create a solution. And the reason we're able to guarantee $100,000 we find money all over the place. There are there are situations where the client doesn't even see it. We do. We capture it. There are times the client sees it but they don't know how to capture it. And third, we both discover something new in the in the process. So and there could be money from a variety of sources, from the operations, from revenue, from margin gain, from variances in the material, labor and overhead variances. There's a variety of ways to pick up dollars, but in the end, it aggregates quite significantly over a 12 month period. And that create that cash flow, you know, creates a 400% ROI for our clients. And then, you know, their investment they made in US pays off in spades, year after year after year, and they're on the right path. And probably the most important thing of what we do is we help transform their culture, because we get their employees engaged in the process of contributing to the solution, because everyone wants to be seen and heard, and every. One has a different perspective. They may not know how to connect the dots. That's the job of the CEO and the other leaders of the organization, but these that those leaders need to listen and invite many different types of employees to the table to contribute to the solution of whatever problem they're trying to overcome, and by doing that, when people are seeing, felt and heard, that's a great scenario, because now they feel value, and they're part of the solution. Now they're engaged. Now they have emotional ownership. Those the folks and I always give a client a very simple litmus test to see how strong is your culture. And it's a very simple question, will your employees go the extra mile without being asked, and if they will, you got a pretty damn good culture, but if they won't, well, there's room for improvement. And so that's how we find 100,000 and a lot in many different places, but it's by engaging a variety of employees in the solution of the solution of the problems, through a process, a proven process, called appreciative inquiry. And by doing so, we end up being able to generate with I never sweat trying to find 100,000 in a 3 million, 5 million, $10 million company. It's never even been close. The money is all over the place. In these situations, very

Robert Plank 6:18 nice, through curiosity and through collaboration and getting people to buy in onto these solutions. And so that way, when you do find the solution, it's not just being dropped on them, it's something that they help to build and create. And so I like what you're saying here. Of you know that the money is in there once you do the investigating, and I'm curious about in all of your different investigations, so to speak, right? All your travels, has there been a really surprising place where you found Hidden Profit inside a business?

Jeff-Baldassari 6:49 Nothing surprising, the amount, sometimes, yes, but also the halo effect, for example, a company well, one that I was running, and then I've advised another client of mine to do the same in a quick shift program to guarantee the outcome for their clients and our clients when I was running the company, and this process was would involve supply chain partners, so outside stakeholders, internal stakeholders, to make sure that we had all of our ducks in a row, to Make sure that whatever we guaranteed on time, would, would, would that, in fact, would happen. Client did the same thing. And the surprise part was not that the quick ship sales went up. That was expected, because if we could guarantee our outcome, and we did, and for eight years, the company I was running, we ran this program. Didn't give away a single free chair. We manufactured high end office furniture didn't give away. A single item free. But the halo effect was a surprise. The halo effect was in that now, if you could guarantee your quick shift program, customers started saying, well, wow, I think I can. I can give them a shot, you know, because I can trust them. If I can trust them to do that, where their money's on the line, I could probably trust them to do the day to day, you know, mundane work or the ordinary orders. And sure enough, that's where the that's where the surprising impact was, where all of a sudden, the growth jumped, and outside of the program itself, we were directly affecting,

Robert Plank 8:15 I love it. So there's something to be said about trust, which comes from consistency and reliability, isn't it? It's solving the otherwise boring problems and just getting everything working. And I know that you're big on solving or focusing on root causes and not symptoms. So can you talk about that? Because you know, we're all about changing that company's trajectory, improving the culture, doing the right thing. So root causes instead of symptoms. What do you have to say there?

Jeff-Baldassari 8:43 Well, it's funny, there's three things I see almost in every engagement, not all three, but at least one of these three, and root causes is the third. So the first one is accountability, a lack of accountability. The second is, are in a constant state of reaction. But to your question, the root causes versus the symptomatic patchwork? They do. They feel a pain. So for example, let's say your your leg hurts, okay, and they feel the pain in their leg, whatever that is, and it represents in their company that metaphor, they address that pain. But the real pain is not the leg. The leg isn't injured. Maybe they injured their spine, and it's the nervous system that's sending pain messages to the leg. And instead of treating the spine or even discovering it's the spine that's been impacted, they just keep treating the leg and it keeps coming back. So for example, here's a real life thing. People say, Oh, we have a lead generation problem. Sales are flattening out. We got to get more lead generation people in to help us grow the business. Yes and no, because you start doing a root cause analysis, and you start to realize pretty quickly it's not the lead generation, it's your lead times. You're taking too long to get the product out the door. You used to be two weeks, two days, two hours, whatever it may be, and now it's taking three days, three hours, three weeks. You know, it's grown and it's taking longer. You're making mistakes, you're sending out wrong products. Product, or wrong services, or defective product, defective services, you're making doing business difficult. That's the root cause of why your sales are flattening up. You could bring in all the business you want, and if you keep screwing it up internally, it doesn't matter. So, you know, that's the point I try to make to clients, is saying you don't have a lead generation problem. You have an order prevention problem going on, and they just want to address the lead generation thinking that's going to solve their problem. And I think that the best metaphor I've seen predates all of us. You know, back in the 1950s the comedy show, I Love Lucy, and the most classic, iconic scene is when Lucy and Ethel are at the Chocolate Factory. And I don't know, Robert, have you ever seen this clip? It's from the night, mid 1950s they get a job eating the pieces. Yeah, correct. And that the chocolates coming down the conveyor belt, and they can't keep up. CEOs have this, this ridiculous like phallus, but this fantasy that if we get more orders, everything will be better. People's attitudes will be better, and they'll step up. And it's like no more business is gonna is gonna make your problems worse? And if you don't believe me, watch, I Love Lucy. They speed up the belt, they put more chocolate on it. What are they doing? They're stuffing in their pockets and their blouse and their hats and their mouth, and they're they're doing everything but doing what they're supposed to do, and that is wrapping the chocolate. And it's a funny, silly little scene, but that's what goes on in companies. When sales start to increase and they don't have their house in order, it's a mess. And it gets worse with the more orders that come in. They lose more money, they aggravate more customers. They lose more customers, ultimately. And they think beforehand, oh, if we just get more orders, it'll fix everything. And in fact, it makes everything worse. Yeah, I mean, it's

Robert Plank 11:44 the way you say it's, I mean, it's like, yeah, you have a broken leg. And they're like, Hey, take more aspirin. Just keep taking more and more. It's like, you're, you're focusing on the wrong thing. And it's even worse than that, because it you're, if you increase this other factor, you're just compounding your problems. You're replicating the mistakes. And so it seems like we want these leadership teams to be building scalable systems instead of getting stuck in reactive mode. So can you tell us a little bit about that? Like, what should leadership teams be thinking differently and be doing differently,

Jeff-Baldassari 12:15 strategically planning? So there, you know, there's always surprises in life. I mean, that's what life is all about. But there's, there's, there's some clients I go to, they're in a constant state of reaction. They're just every day getting up, and you think about it, how much energy and resources they're spending reacting, where, if they took those same resources, and just step back for a moment, brought people to the table. Identify, again, get different perspectives. Ask people to contribute to the solution. Identify what the real root cause is. Like you said, just because my pain works, can't just keep pounding down the Advil, because the pain is going to just keep coming back until we figure out what's causing that. What's the real root cause of that problem? But if they they're in this constant state of reaction, they're wasting too much resource, time and money, just reacting when, in fact, if they took the time to assess and address and put some strategic planning in, they can get in front of they can predict the problems are going to come. There's some things that you can see a mile away, but companies don't do anything about it or their accounting systems. Every month are a bunch of news reporters. They say, Oh yeah, we lost the $20,000 this month on making this mistake. Well, did we make that mistake last month? Yes, we did. We lost 19,000 last month, and the month before was 40,000 and but instead of, well, let's sit down and figure out, how do we stop the problem from happening, they just keep reacting like, Oh, we got to do something after the fact, after the horses are out of the barn. So that's the biggest thing. Is they just don't take the time to get in front of it, predict it, that it's coming, and take action to stop it from happening. And that's the biggest problem I see in the reaction mode. And they waste so much time and money just reacting, that same amount of energy could have been used to prevent it in the first place.

Robert Plank 14:02 Oh, yeah. And we definitely see people just kind of thinking in this wrong way and coming up with excuses like, oh, but we can't strategically plan. We can't put in all this extra effort, and you would say, but you're already putting in the effort and the time in looking back into the past instead of just fixing the problem and forecasting instead. So it seems like there's a lot of asking better questions. And instead of asking, why does this keep happening? It's, Hey, how can we fix this $40,000 every month problem going forward? And so these companies, they come to you, and some of them are in trouble, aren't they? Some of them are perhaps on the brink of collapse. And so it's, I'm always curious about, like, those first steps. What do you do initially? And so if a company like this comes to you and they're about to fail, they're in trouble, what do you look to change first?

Jeff-Baldassari 14:51 You can't spread the resources too thin. So you made me think of a great example of a client I had a client that was making you. Uh, accuracy mistakes. They're in the distribution business, and they weren't accurately packaging their goods. And they were, it was costing quite a bit of money, and instead of getting to the root cause, they get could kept trying to spend all their money and effort keeping the customer happy. Oh, I'm sorry. We shifted the wrong box. We're going to send you the new one today. Okay? And they normalize bad behavior they were spending. They create a full time job broken up in a bunch of different people to keep the customer happy, instead of getting the root cause and addressing what is causing the mistake. And so when you're in this crisis situation, you can't blow money. You gotta, you gotta get wood on the ball fast. If you're up to bat, you got to figure it out. And I think that's again, where you bring a variety of people in to get perspective from the factory floor. So it's four groups essentially want leadership involved, that leadership needs to listen. Because here's what happens if you put this group of people in the room, what ends up happening is, if you allow the leaders to speak too much, they're going to dominate the conversation. They're going to intimidate the lower level people. And the process doesn't work as well as it could or should. So if leadership, they need to be there to listen, to connect the dots. That's their job. You need frontline workers that are in the trenches and see and then the third is you need stakeholders which, which could be, I shouldn't say, adjacent. They could be in a different department. So if you're trying to have a revenue problem, you a revenue problem, you could bring people in from operations, from finance. Can we support that revenue initiative? Okay, whatever it may be, that lead generation initiative, that new marketing initiative, that new go to market approach, because you may not have the cash to support that today, you could do something. You could build your way up to it, but you can't go all in right now because you just don't have the money, or you don't have the bandwidth in your factory. What happens if you get 20% growth? That's another, probably the most fundamental mistake I see clients make. I ask them a simple question, do you know your departmental capacities? And they don't, but they tell me they want to grow 50% 40% pick your number. It doesn't matter. And then I asked, well, how do you know you can handle it? Oh, we can handle it. Oh, you can't. What's your departmental capacities? So what do you mean? Well, you've got five departments in your warehouse, in your factory, in your service arena, whatever it may be. What's the capacity? What can they do in a 40 hour week, 52 hour a week. How much can they get out with with it, with so much accuracy, so much efficiency? You need to know that number, because if you bring in all this business and they can't get it out, your situation is going to get worse, really fast again. Go back to Lucy and the Chocolate Factory, the belt speeding up, the chocolate is coming through, and there's nowhere for it to go. That's the problem. So they don't know their departmental capacities. That causes the problem. But getting back to the groups, you have corporate leadership. You're the frontline workers. You want adjacent departments to make sure that they can support the efforts that being finance operations, helping marketing, all three, three legs of the stool, all three have to be in alignment that they can, they can do what they can, and that's very important. That keyword is alignment, because the marketing team, the sales team, you have to be on the same page as operations. So we're playing to our strength and and, or we're playing to the market demands. We have to build our strength up to meet that. Then the fourth group is stakeholders. You may want to invite your biggest supply chain partner or one of your biggest customers to the table, because they have a stake in your outcome. They want you to do well, you know, if it's of a supplier, they're going to benefit from your growth. If it's a customer, they want you to do well, because they're going to keep buying from you. And if you can add more services or widgets, they're going to Why buy more? Because they're enjoying what they're buying now. So those four groups are critical. When you have a crisis management situation or just a strict growth situation, bring those four groups to the table to solve the to bring different perspective, connect the dots, to create the strategy, then you have engagement. People are now a part of the process, not being told what to do, because nobody likes to be told what to do. They are now emotionally owning the outcome. Nothing falls between the cracks, and great success can be achieved that way.

Robert Plank 19:06 Very nice, very cool. And so there's definitely that value in getting all the brains working together, getting people to communicate, and then it seems like you're coming back a lot to this idea of knowing your numbers and having the math problem figured out that way. You're not just guessing, because if you if you want to figure out some of these metrics based on vibes, you'll be way off, right? So it's important to know where you're at, so you know what to avoid and where you're going. And my understanding about part of your philosophy is this thing called the Second Chance employment program that boosted retention from 20% to 80% so can you tell us what that was all about and what made that work?

Jeff-Baldassari 19:46 Yeah, when I was CEO of us rubber, it's a fitness flooring manufacturer in Colton, California, Inland Empire. When I joined the company, I spent the first year getting the house in order and working with the teams we put together some. Them, we had a B to B model and a B to C model. And when covid hit our b to c component, you know, the home gyms went through the roof, b to b Of course, declined with covid Because a lot of the factory shutdowns. But when it was said and done, we grew overall 120% in 10 months. Insane amount of growth, and what was important about our ability to execute, and with that in that type of environment for any company, that's a challenge. But when I joined the company, 50% of the workforce was formerly incarcerated individuals, and this is a unique population that has different needs. And in the beginning, as we were starting to grow, we were had a high turnover. Where we were we were retaining one out of five for a year, so we put together our Second Chance program. We called it bounce back, and this program provided the wraparound services and resources that this population needs, like in the beginning, transportation, housing, clothing, and also the counseling I hired a a

Jeff-Baldassari 21:06 special excuse me, looking out of the name, hold on, give me one second.

Jeff-Baldassari 21:17 Gosh, what the heck is she called a person's name, I can't think of what her title, what she had, she was okay in the beginning, we also hired a psychiatric, real rehabilitation counselor, because a lot of these individuals, they lack life lessons. They come from broken homes. They didn't grow up with a mentor. They didn't grow up with a role model. So they need to learn these these basic things that the traditional workers take for granted. And with having the counseling available at all times for all of our employees, it wasn't just the formerly incarcerated, we were able to have that retention flip from 20% to 80% we went from a single shift with about 30 some employees to within less than a year we had we were working 24 five, if you will, five days a week, 24 hours a single shift on Saturday with over 100 employees. So that's a huge amount of labor growth. What was key about that was we were doing that in a market where labor we're going through a labor shortage at the time, so it was really critical a to find the people and one half, two thirds of our population in the workforce were formerly incarcerated. So our bounce back program, our second chance employment program, really was important not only for acquisition of talent, but retention of talent, because you can't keep churning and burning if you're trying to grow a business, because it just doesn't work, right?

Robert Plank 22:48 So you figured out what's this underserved population, and you give them what they need, give them all the support and the resources. And so it seems like this topic of leadership keeps coming up, as far as you kind of be attentive, and you guide people, and you involve others, and you give away some of your power. But we all have blind spots. And so these leadership blind spots that perhaps you see over and over again in highly successful companies, what do you have to remark about that? What are those leadership blind spots that just keep appearing,

Jeff-Baldassari 23:18 taking people for granted, taking your best employees for granted. People leaders will say, Well, I compensate them. Well, they're incentivized through bonus programs and all that's true, but what they where, the where, the shortcoming that I see happen is they don't seek contribution to solving problems and becoming a part of the direction of the company. So they've got great employees, but they never ask them, What do you think? That's probably one of the most powerful questions you can ask as a leader. What do you think? Because implicitly, you're saying to whoever you're speaking to, I think you're intelligent. Your opinion has merit. I want to hear what you have to say to solve this problem. And then that's where the emotional ownership comes in. Because they could say, Well, I think we should do this, or I've seen that, and I think, because of that, I think we should try this. And when they're a part of that process, they will take ownership in the outcome, and they're gonna, they're gonna do whatever it takes to be successful. And that's where leaders, I think the blind spots are, they just they, they just think, you know, well, that's, that's, you know, Joe's role or Sally's role, and that's all they should be doing, versus they could contribute so much more. It's because of that role they can do more. So, for example, back in when I was still in Cleveland, years ago, back in 2006 through Appreciative Inquiry was created by or pioneered by a professor at Case Western Reserve University, David Cooper rider. He was brought in to help a company. It was a consumer goods company. They had a packaging issue, and David knew how to put team, how to put the group together and to seek that. Contribution to avoid that blind spot, okay, that most leaders fall into or get hit by. And it turned out to solve the problem. The person who had the best idea was the receptionist. Why? Because she was talking and to the customers. She was on the phone. She was speaking them in person. Okay, she heard what was going on. You know, you can't put what you hear, feel and see on a spreadsheet. She could, when she was given an opportunity to speak up. It was a safe environment to speak up. She did. You know, by the way, that that little idea she had or pointing it out, they connected the dots, saved the company $500,000 annually. So never underestimate the source of your solution. You could be pleasantly surprised. I'm not saying that's going to happen every time, but it could happen more times than you expect, and I think the blind spot is, don't overlook the value many can bring to the table to help solve the challenges of today.

Robert Plank 26:02 I like it. You can imagine that some leaders haven't even considered this right? Just ask, What do you think? And it's just an idea. It's just something quick. Doesn't mean you have to take it in, follow it exactly. It's one of many ideas. Just get these other contributions, these other opinions. And so when a CEO is stuck, and maybe they've become aware of some of these problems in their company. At some point, it's time to bring someone like you in. But when is the right time for one of these CEOs to bring in a fractional leader like you, versus hiring someone full time to fix the problem?

Jeff-Baldassari 26:38 I think if you identify that, you're in one of the you know, those, those three different scenarios, again, things are going great, but you're fearing that you don't have the infrastructure to support it. Okay, the ideas you were using, the trajectory starting to flat line, and you're realizing that the shelf life is coming up soon you need new ideas, or you are out of ideas. That's the time to bring a fractional CEO individual like myself in or Leslie in to help out, but if you wait too long, I've had this happen too I had two potential clients earlier this year in up in Los Angeles, and they waited too long. They kept trying and trying, and I helped fault them for trying, but by the time we were brought in, they were so the drain, they were circling the drain. They were halfway down the drain by the time we got there, and we couldn't save them. I mean, there was too much damage. They called us three or six months earlier, we could have turned things around. At least we had a chance to turn things around. But when they waited too long, you know, it was too late. I mean, there was too much damage. The relationships they had with their banks, with their with their landlords, with their client base. It was too late. There was nothing to work with. There was no more meat left on the bone, bones. And you know, those those stakeholders, those partners, were now starting to turn into their adversaries. And sure enough, you know, when the landlord doesn't get paid, the bank wants its loan, you know that becomes a problem and and when you don't have the wherewithal to pay it. That's when the you know it's checking time. So don't let it get to the point of crisis management. I mean, sometimes that will happen, but if you're in the on the verge of it, call us now before you're deep into it, because we can make we can do something when it's not too late. I've been in those situations. I'm accustomed to them. I thrive in them. I don't panic in them. I'll be very methodical, very strategic. And how I can, how I can advise, and again, employ appreciative inquiry and use limited resources so we don't become a distraction in the process. But if you wait too long, nobody's gonna be able to save you in those scenarios,

Robert Plank 28:43 right? And so you're saying as early as possible, ideally, before a crisis situation, that way, there's still some resources to be had. That way, there's still a way to right the ship, and it's not too far gone. And so have that conversation early, is what you're saying. And so, oh, man,

Jeff-Baldassari 29:00 great man, if things are going great, keep them going great, because you're probably started getting end up or getting yourself out into uncharted territory. So bring us in then, because again, like as I shared, I've been in the shoes where, oh my gosh, I want to get to the other side. I don't I'm frustrated I can't get there. But I've also been on the other side of the fence where I've arrived, and knew what it took to build the infrastructure to support the growth and to keep it going, to keep it sustainably moving forward for years to come. And that's another thing you've worked really hard to grow your business. Don't let it all be in vain. Don't let it all be for not because that could happen quickly too. So you want to, you want to bring that support system in, because you may know how to bring it in, but how do you keep it going and keep it being made efficiently? You'll want to be selling more and making less money, or making no money. That's pretty aggravating, frustrating thing, and it's not that uncommon. That's narrow to occur.

Robert Plank 29:56 So you're saying there's two sides of it. There is they might need you to get the. Out of a jam, get them out of a bad situation, but if it is working and you want more of that, then keep more of the good happening and go and dissect that. And now it's time for a weird, awkward question that I know you won't like, but I'm going to ask you anyway, and it's, have you ever had to tell a CEO that their big idea was actually the wrong move, and how did that go?

Jeff-Baldassari 30:23 Yes, I've had that happen couple of times, but I make I don't, I don't address it to be critical. But what I will do is I will point out to say I've tried that, or I've seen somebody else do that. It did not end well, because on paper, it sounds like it's all going to work out. That's not how life goes, especially in this scenario, whatever it may be. And I've witnessed people, you know, go down in flames because they went down, they went down that path, or you think it's going to generate X, and you know what you're going to be lucky to get y. So I think instead of being critical and just sharing real life examples, real life stories, that softens the blow, and it's not personal, because, you know what, no one has all the answers. I don't have all the answers. I've got a lot of experience. I have a lot of experience of what works. I've seen things that don't work. I've made mistakes. I've done some great things too. I've watched others make mistakes. I've watched others do great things. I can just share and then help work with our clients to figure out, how do we how do we put that into action, or put that into motion in this scenario? Because every company is unique, every fact pattern is, you know, a little bit different, but it can be integrated into the current situation, but as long as the leader doesn't take it personally, it's not that big of a deal. It's not as awkward as it sounds. But I think you've got to be honest with people. You've got to call it out like you can't just be placating them. Say, Oh, that's a great idea. Let's give it a shot, see what happens. No, you got to say, No, I don't think that's a great idea, and here's why. And just be honest, and then let's have a conversation, because the best answer is somewhere in between, not in the middle, but it's somewhere in between. And I think that's that's one thing I always had with my teams. When I would put an idea on the table, I had no problem with people criticizing or critiquing my ideas. I mean, I always made it clear with everyone's ideas. Never attack the people. You can attack the problem. They also had one other rule, if you're going to attack the problem or critique the excuse me, if you're going to attack the solution or attack or critique the solution, the only way you're allowed to do it is you have to have one of your own. So you can't just throw rocks at somebody else's ideas and bring nothing to the table, because we don't need that. That's not adding value. Okay? Yes, you want to do some kind of a litmus test to make sure that this is going to work. But you just can't throw rocks at everyone's ideas all the time. You You have to bring some new, fresh perspective, a better solution, so that way you're adding value, and then people will listen too. Because again, the answer is not always in the middle, but it's somewhere in between, what's what's been thrown on the table and what's thrown as an alternative plan B, plan C to the idea,

Robert Plank 33:11 very nice. And you have to maybe get those extremes or get those alternatives fleshed out, figured out, and then you revise and then you come up with an end result that's better than if you tried to shortcut all of that. And at the beginning, at some point, we were talking about this idea of quick wins, which sounds good, but it can't all be quick wins. Can it? Some of these solutions are quick wins, and others are these scalable, long term systems. So do you have any thoughts on balancing those too. When you go to help a company and you say, Okay, we'll do these quick wins, do this long term solutions, what are your thoughts on that? As far as balancing the quick wins with the long term solutions,

Jeff-Baldassari 33:51 it's got to be both. And so the quick wins often come. It could be a scenario of what's going on, but But what I have found in my experience in advising clients is it comes from my experience. So for example, I had a client where we put together an incentive program and it was a group. And this is another mistake, a blind spot that a lot of leaders run into. They keep employing individual incentive programs instead of group incentive programs. Organizations obviously run in teams. They're not they're not in silos, okay, so they're team sports, if you will. So the incentive program should be team based, not individual based. Okay, in most cases, there are exceptions, and if you've learned the art of putting types of Team incentives, you're going to bring out the best in everyone and get the best outcomes. Okay? And I had a, I had a situation with one of my early clients where I'd been there before. And I think, I think I probably spent. Have three one hour meetings with them, and then, hence that, here's your plan, and it saved him over 200,000 annually and three hours of time, not because I'm a genius, but because done it before. And so it's not my three hours of time, it's my 30 years of experience plus my three hours of time. So these are not academic exercises. For me. Like I said, I've been in their shoes on both sides of the fence. So when I recognize something that I've seen before, done before, addressed before, I bring it up, I hand them. This is what we need to do. Here's the strategy. We can tweak it, getting their institutional knowledge input. We can co create the final solution. But sometimes those quick wins, they don't take very long, and they could be big, but I'm looking for the long game. I'm looking to engage employees across the board, change the culture, because I don't want my relationship to be transactional and I don't want the solution to be short lived, because if I don't transform that culture. It's not going to last. Because I want, I don't want anything to fall between the cracks. And if people have ownership in the outcome, they won't let things fall between the cracks, because it's their reputation on the line. And they're engaged, they're enthused. They want to see something positive happen, because it's because, again, they have something beyond emotional, also financial, out, you know, skin in the game, but that's what's important to me, is, yeah, I want to get those quick wins, get that enthusiasm going, but let's keep it going by seeking contribution from a variety of people and putting together a long term solution that's sustainable for all of

Robert Plank 36:34 course. So you have that pattern recognition, because you've seen so many different companies, so many different scenarios, you can see, you can, you know, identify what might not otherwise be identifiable. And then when it comes time for that solution, you make sure that the change is lasting and that there are many people with skin in the game working on it, creating the plan, implementing and getting close to the end of our conversation here, Jeff, there's always that that thinking of, well, what to pass along to someone who's headed somewhere, right? Or you think about like, you know, the avoiding mistakes before they happen. So there are all these companies that, perhaps, with your help, are on this growth trajectory, perhaps to $10 million so you think about the advice that you'd give or wish that you had on that $10 million path. So if you could give a founder one piece of advice before they hit $10 million in revenue, what would that advice be?

Jeff-Baldassari 37:33 Don't underestimate your people. Your people are your best asset and your worst enemy. So a quote that comes to mind is, everything in life is easy until people get involved. Okay? And I think that's one thing it took me a while to learn, is the strength of people, not a long time, but I was I had to learn pretty quickly the value of people's seeking their contribution from throughout the organization, not just at the top and, and so when you invite that contribution, you can, you can achieve outcomes that weren't possible or thought to be possible before and but also, you have to realize, don't just do everything on a spreadsheet. Say, Oh, here's the plan. Step one, step two, step three. That's not how life goes, someone's going to throw a wrench in it somewhere, somehow. And so you have to be prepared for that and realize you're going to have to recalibrate from time to time. I've never, ever put together a strategy where we said, Do this whatever it is, and put it on cruise control for, you know, in perpetuity, there's always tweaking. There's always something that comes up that you know. And it may have been working great for two years, three years, four years, but at some point you know, you have to remember the world is dynamic. Always has been, always will be. You can't have a static solution. The solution has to evolve. It doesn't evolve a lot, but it has to evolve because the times are going to change. You have a change of the times, and again, at some point that solution will have a shelf life. There's no more change left in it. So what I would always recommend for people is to for leaders, is whether it's 10 million, 20 million, getting to 30 million, whatever the number is, if you're stuck at 12 million and you just can't break through, you're not making the most abuse of your people, probably, and that's usually the case that I find is they're they're not tapping into it, or they got people operating in silos, like children. They they parallel play. They're like two year olds, all playing with the same toys, but no one's playing together, and they're not getting the synergetic, synergetic effect. So if they work together, they could achieve better outcomes together. They're working side by side, and they're working really hard. I don't fault them for that, but they're not bringing out the best in each other, because they're they're not on the same page, and they're not aligned, and that's that's a key thing.

Robert Plank 39:55 So we need to get our people involved, get them aligned. And I imagine. That some founders, some companies, aren't asking these tough questions that you are, and that's why they need you. So if someone says, Okay, Jeff, you give me so much to think about, so many ideas, so many solutions, so many stories and scenarios, but that's just like a collection, and not really something that substitutes having the real man involved. And so if someone says, All right, a lot of what Jeff said makes sense. I want to think about or get that 100k growth guarantee. I want these better options. How can someone take the next step with you? Where should they go?

Jeff-Baldassari 40:31 You can find me on LinkedIn. I'm on LinkedIn, or our website, the competitive edge group.com, and reach out to me. And I think the last thing I'll leave you with is, you know, it's been wonderful having this conversation with you, Robert, and it's been a lot of fun. And what we've gone through is like trying to teach someone how to play golf from a book. Okay, you can learn all these little buzz words and all these little theories and all these different strategies and memorize them. It's just like golf. We'll hold the club this way, swing it that way. But until you put your your the club in your hand and actually swing it, you don't know how to play golf. So that's where we come in, to teach that cadence, to create that environment for people to contribute. Because it is a difficult thing to cross over, to do, and from someone from the outside will be able to do it like myself, because I've done it before, multiple, multiple times. But the other thing that's really important is most CEOs, if they don't know this, they should, and that is, as a CEO, you're guaranteed to two things, a warm cup of coffee, and no one's ever going to tell you the whole truth. So all your folks are never going to tell you the boss the whole story. They just won't, but they will tell it to me, because I'm going to pull it out of them, and I'm not their boss, and I won't be there forever. They're going to be a lot more honest and candid with me than they will with my client, CEO. So that's the difference that I could bring to the table. So reach out to me on LinkedIn, reach out to me at the competitive edge group. Let's start a conversation, and maybe we can help,

Robert Plank 42:07 very nice start that conversation, because you have techniques, and you can kind of approach this from an angle that might not work with the current people involved, and so you have this outside presence that can ask the right questions, get the right answers and develop some new solutions. And so as far as those next steps, we said, the competitive edge group.com they find solutions that others miss, and they guarantee the results. Your employees only see the decisions you make, but not the choices you have. And when you're stuck at the crossroads, they will develop those better options for you. That's the competitive edge group.com and then as far as finding Jeff Baldessari on LinkedIn, that last name is b, a, l, D, A, S, S, A, R, I find them on LinkedIn, click the connect button, click the Message button, start the conversation, explain your situation and ask how Jeff can help you to unlock new growth potential revenue opportunities, get more and better options before I let you go. Mr. Jeff Baldessari from the competitive edge group.com it's time for the scary part of the podcast where I try to stump you. I try to put you on the spot by asking about a fun quote or lesson that has served you, and you're already given us some. But what do you have as far as a finale quality quote or lesson that has served you?

Jeff-Baldassari 43:26 The best one of all is one I shared earlier, and that is, everything in life is easy until people get involved. It's funny, it's cute, but wow, is it true until you've been in the trenches and realize that I remember when I first heard it, I was in my early 30s, and I thought, Oh, that's funny. Hahaha, wow. And then you start leading an organization, and you start to realize how challenging people can be, because you can't keep everybody happy, but you there is a way to navigate those waters and walk that tightrope and and find ways to navigate because in the end, your people, you know they can become your best asset by you inviting them. We all get the problems we all. We get what we tolerate as leaders, and we get the culture that we fail to create. So we have the opportunity to invite people in create the best culture possible, and we don't have to tolerate things that are that are upsetting us. Okay, look in the mirror. Things aren't going so great. Culturally at your company, it starts with you, Mr. Or Ms, CEO, and you own it, but you also the ability to change it. That's the cool thing.

Robert Plank 44:33 Yes, take ownership, take leadership, take action, and you can begin to do that by going to the competitive edge group.com Jeff Baldo, sorry on LinkedIn, Mr. Jeff. It's been a wonderful conversation. So many ideas, so much advice. Thanks for being here.

Jeff-Baldassari 44:47 Hey. Thanks, Robert. Was a lot of fun. I really appreciate it. You.