Archive for August, 2016
107: Stop Dreaming and Take Action with Anmol Singh
Anmol Singh from LiveTraders.com shares his journey from stock trading, to becoming an independent trader, then diversifying with rental properties, online training courses, software, and tons of other areas. He shares with us:
- his amazingly simple time management system that involves a simple notepad
- his distinction between a "gig" and a business (and only doing those things that you're good at, that you also have a passion about)
- that you should not only do what you say you'll do, but stop dreaming and take action
Anmol Singh: I'm great. Thanks for having me.
Robert Plank: Cool. It sounds like you have a lot of stuff in progress, a lot of stuff you set up. How the heck did you get started with all this?
Anmol Singh: It basically all started through trading. I was in my dorm room sitting back in university and we were figuring out different ways where we can perhaps get ahead rather than just looking for a job. That's how I was introduced to trading but just talking to my friends in the dorm room. Nobody really took any action, whereas I just went out there, researched about how the markets work, took a lot of courses, took a lot of education and then got started trading. After about 12 months or so of, I guess, dabbling in the markets and losing a little bit, I finally figured out my strategy and what I really wanted to do and how I really wanted to trade. From there it was a basically a snowball effect. When you're getting money in from trading, you have two things. Either you can withdraw it and you can spend that money, or you can take that money and invest it into other different businesses. I chose the different route. I chose to invest that money into other businesses.
Robert Plank: Cool. I love that. It's a really nice comparison between you and your friends in college. I think that that's kind of the typical person, right? The typical person kind of knows about all of these things, does a little bit of reading, dreams a little bit, but doesn't actually take action. It sounds like you went ahead and made all the mistakes that there were to make and read all of the stuff there was to read. Then once you got past that initial little hump then all of these other things took off.
Anmol Singh: Exactly. Taking action is what really differentiates people who achieve things from people who don't, because I could have sat in the dorm room and just talked about it. It was a fun discussion and then I could have gone out and done the usual thing or I could sacrifice maybe a couple of Saturday nights. Just sit in my dorm room and figure out what I should do next. It's those little things you give up, they're the ones that are going to get you to where you want to be.
Robert Plank: Then, it's like you give it you at first, but then it pays off way, way later in the end. I think that I see a lot of people kind of fall into is that they'll talk a big game, or they'll talk about all the future plans and it's almost like talking too much about what you're going to do, almost makes you feel as if you've done it. Then once you've done it, you're not motivated to go ahead and do it. It sounds like you just went ahead instead of talking about it to every single person who'd listen, you just kind of quietly went and did your thing and then, well guess what? The thing that you're talking about can be your past actions, not your future dreams.
Anmol Singh: Exactly. The way to think about this one is, you could either talk about what you're going to do, which is good too, you should always talk about your future goals, but you can either say, "Hey, I'm going to launch a multimillion dollar business in five years." You could either say that, or you could say, "Hey, I want to launch a multimillion dollar business in five years, but here's what I've done so far leading up to those five years." That's what we're really differentiate. For me, I made a commitment. I said, "I'm going to make money as a successful stock market trader. This is where I want to get in five years. So far to get there what I've done is I've spent X amount of money on my education, taken these courses. I opened up a trading account. I've started putting trades with really small money."
What I'm giving you right now is I'm breaking my goal down into actionable items and those are the stuff that I took action on. That's what people need to do rather than just dreaming about having successful business. You have to ask yourself the question, what have you done until now? Have you even launched your own website? First things first, go and buy your own name's domain name. First buy the domain name. Second thing you need to do is you need to create a business plan. Third thing you need to do is register your company. All this doesn't even require you to have a business idea. You're taking action into that goal and that's what will differentiate you from, a person who takes action from a person who doesn't.
Robert Plank: I love that. It's such a simple message, but I think everyone needs to hear that. Even if you just take one little step, like you said, registering their domain name, even though it seems like, "Oh, I can do that later. I can do that when I have my other tasks." Sometimes we just have to just get going just the tiniest bit. I like that a lot. You said that you started off with this trading stuff. You started with a little bit of money, grew to some more money and then instead of just taking the money out and living off that, you decided to invest this into some other businesses. Could you tell us a little bit about that?
Anmol Singh: Sure. When I started trading, I was initially trading for another firm, but mainly as independent trader where they used to give me a percentage of the profits and they used to back me the money in regards to that. That was the first way I started, but then eventually I started making good money on my own that I didn't really require another firm's capital. I had my own capital to trade. That was one thing where I left that firm and started trading on my own, which will naturally save me a percentage that I had to give to them, so now I'm making more money. Then what I did from that money is I said, "You know what? I could either keep on trading the way I'm trading or I could put more money in my trading account and perhaps start trading a little bit more money." That was the second step.
The third step was, "Hey, maybe I could diversify because right now I'm a short term trader but maybe I could do some long term trading." With that money, I opened up another account where I started doing long term investing and long term trading. Then sooner or later, my family and friends wanted to give me their money to trade. I said, "You know what? Sure thing. Let's do it." After first few years, I hesitated. I didn't want to take anybody's money, but then finally I said, "You know what? Okay. I'll do it for the friends and family." That turned into a pretty big long term fund that I traded with.
From there it was like, "All right. I think I'm in a pretty good place with my trading, maybe I should diversify." By that time, what happened was you started getting a lot of emails, a lot of social media messages of people wanting to learn how to trade because I used to write a blog, post videos. Without having livetraders.com and just posting my market commentary. That got a lot of attention from people wanting to learn. That resulted in natural progression to me starting LiveTraders where now we're teaching other people to trade. We're backing them with our own money. Same way the firm backed me when I started, now we back other traders with our money in exchange for a percentage of their profits. Then that led to one of the business.
The next progression was into real estate. My father has always been into real estate. I said, "This is definitely something that has good potential." What I started doing was I started taking some of the capital and buying rental properties and buying commercial real estate. That was one of the other progressions that led into that.
One thing to another, I started looking for something that has I guess synergy with my current businesses. One of them was trading out those systems which is just a website where we build an program software for traders. Traders need different kinds of tools. They need different kinds of automation tools. What we do now is I have an in house designer, and a programmer that works with the clients to build trading software that they need. That was just synergy inside the current model. That's how it led from one thing to another.
Robert Plank: There's a bunch of really cool things about that story and about all of that. The best thing that I like about it is usually when people talk about diversifying in their business, it kind of almost sounds like one thing that they do that makes money, makes up for something else that's not making money or diversifying to some people sounds like where they do half of one project and half of another project. What I really like about what you just explained here is that you didn't do all these things at once. One thing kind of led to something and then led to the next logical thing. The other things I like about it is that you kind of started off with almost like a proof of concept. You master trading on your own and then you went out and had software made to do that. Master trading with your own money and then that kind of grew into trading with other people's money and then all that led to teaching people how to go and do those things. It's kind of like you tried these different experiments, it seems like one pays off and then you went in and took that all to the next logical step.
The final thing I like about all of that is that you said that about verticals and synergy, just because I know that with me, whenever I try to have one project in one niche or some project in some other niche. The software program over here or some software as a service over there. It's like my time's always kind of split and I have to almost switch gears and things like that. What I really like about what you've explained there, especially with how it all led to the training program about trading and the trading software is that it's not like you mastered stock trading and then decided to go off in some whole other direction like weight loss or something. You taught what you're good at.
Anmol Singh: Right. Exactly. I think it's important, especially for your first few businesses is to do something that you're already good at, do something that you're passionate about and do something that you love because I could have said, "I'm going to go launch my weight loss program," but then maybe I'm not passionate about it. Maybe I'm not even good at it, which I'm not. It's like when you do things which are totally outside of your realm and you're just chasing, I guess, what's hot and what's making money these days on the internet. That's a gig. That's not a business. That's one thing people have to realize.
There are several things you can do to maybe make a $5,000, $10,000 here and there, but is that long term business. Nothing is ever going to be long term sustainable if you're not passionate about it. Number two, you're not good at it. For me, the trading thing again was, as you said, as a proof of concept, here's how I'm trading, here's it making money. The natural progression was let's teach others how to do the same. Then now the students are making money. That's proof of concept. Then I needed to get a trading software basically designed just for myself. That's how I contacted a programmer. I contacted him, said, "Hey, this is the software that I need, this is what I'm looking to get built.
I basically got it built for myself, but then when I was trading and the students were able to see it, they said, "You know what? We want this software too." Then I got people coming up and saying, "Hey, this is the software that I'm looking to get built, here's the criteria for that, can you ask your guy how much it costs." That's what led to forming that business where now we get too many queries for people about software. This is what they need built. I just contacted my programmers and said, "Hey, why don't you just work for me and I'm going to get you these softwares that people want to get built and why don't we work together and give them a really good product. That's how it led from one business to another.
Robert Plank: That's really cool, because like yous said, it started with the tool that you needed to use. You yourself as a stock trader, so then of course you'd build the perfect piece of software that would satisfy your needs but then your students and all these other people, they also had maybe a similar set of needs or slightly different set of features they would need. That way you actually create something that even if it didn't sell one copy, or even if it didn't sell 10 copies, it still would have been worth the money you put in because it delivered the things that you needed. Then because you are a good business owner and you market it, now you kind of can get it from both ends because now it's a solution that you use, but then you can also sell it to other people too. That's great.
Anmol Singh: Exactly.
Robert Plank: With all this stuff that you have going on, I want to ask you about your time management strategy and how the heck do you juggle all these things going in motion at once? How do you deal with emergencies, putting out fires and also have time for yourself and to relax and all that good stuff?
Anmol Singh: Right. For me, I would love to have a really nice system which I could could give people that this is systematically what I do, but my day is really simple. It's as simple as literally writing it down on a notepad. I'm probably the first one to go into newer technology, but as far as project management and time management concern, that's an area of my life that I really have not used technology for. I rarely use meetings. I rarely use calendar. I rarely use outlook, Gmail calendar. I don't use any form of calendar. What I do is, I have a pretty good understanding of what I want to get accomplished the next day, the day before.
Example, if I'm going to bed tonight, I would have already thought out the stuff that I need to get done tomorrow. What am I going to get done. Then how you systematize this day is to create a routine. For me, as a trader, it makes a lot of the job a really easy one because I wake up 8, 8:30 a.m. in the morning and from 8:30 to 9:00, I make my list on what stocks I'm looking to trade that day. From 9:00 to 9:30 I'm sharing it with my members and subscribers. From 9:30 to 11:30, it's strictly just trading. Just trading, trading, trading until 11:30. 11:30, I'm done trading, then I'll turn on my email. I'll check my email, respond to all my emails. Then once I'm done with that, I usually have phone calls scheduled like today you and me are talking and I have another scheduled after this one, then two more in the morning. The schedules are the only things I'm aware of because my goal is to be number one, punctual on all meetings, on all appointments, no matter how big or small.
The way I really manage it is on a piece of paper. Not even a piece of paper, one of those sticky note apps that are on your computer. I just write it down. Today's stuff to do list for today. This is what I need to get done. Then appointment, 2nd August 2 p.m. central. That's one call that I have. Just write down things that are priority and a to do list. I don't really have extreme softwares that I use for time management but one thing I can take, I guess I can give the listeners is to have an idea of what you're looking to do tomorrow.
When you go to bed today, you think about what things you need to get done tomorrow. If you're looking to launch a new business, what do I need to get done tomorrow? What are the small wins that I can get? A small win would be let's register the domain name. Let's register the company. Let's make a logo. That stuff that's really simple to do, which people can knock out of the way within less than ten hours. Then you've got to figure out your next steps. What else does it take? Do I need to create content? Do I need to launch my social media. Just have things to do and make sure you do them. Make sure you do at least 90% of the things that you write down.
Robert Plank: That's all really good stuff. I think that what I like the best about it is that it's not complicated. It frustrates me a lot when you see people, they do or they teach a super confusing kind of time management system or they claim to have good time management and their phone's always going off. There's all kinds of pop ups and there's a bunch of browser tabs open. I really like how you've just made it old school. Just made it a piece of paper and ... You know what too? I've noticed too that when I do the same thing, like I don't do it everyday like you do, but if I plan out tomorrow, today, then that next day ends up being super focused. The days that I just kind of start and I don't really have much of a plan, and maybe it takes me until half of the day to make that plan, it's no where close to as productive of a day as when it's all planned the night before. That's great.
Anmol Singh: Exactly. Nothing's more powerful than the human mind, because I've seen people who are running smaller companies than I am but they're using such complex time management software and they're putting stuff, typing stuff into the time management software. That just makes me think, that now you're managing the time management software. Now you're spending time on the time management software and that's taking away time from stuff you could of actually got done. For me, I've never been a big fan of time management softwares, and I've also seen some of the guys, as you said, they have notification after notification going through their phone, things they have to do, but still, when you ask that, what did you get done today, they don't have anything to show for it. Make sure you have stuff to show for it. It could be as simple as that when you're going to bed, just take down your diary and write down three things that I accomplished today. In the next column write down three things I could've done better today. That's it. Those three things you write down every day, sooner or later you'll figure it out. For me, one thing that's really been bothering me as it's been on my list is I got to go to the gym. That's been on my list and that's something that I have to get knocked out after this call.
Robert Plank: It's good that you're aware of that. That way a time management system doesn't manage you. It's the other way around.
Anmol Singh: Exactly.
Robert Plank: As we're kind of winding this call down and stuff like that, one thing that I was really curious about with your message and your niche and stuff like that is how do you stay in the boundaries? You have this list of when you talk to your subscribers and when you do your trading, you do your emails. How do you keep the time allotted to checking an email, how do you keep that from running over and the big reason why I want to know about this from you specifically is that I don't do a lot of stock trading anymore, but when I used to, I couldn't help but go ahead and check really quick, right? I'd check to see if the price went up, price went down, if it had hit my buy order or hit my sell order. How do you keep the checking from happening?
Anmol Singh: As far as my emails are concerned, I usually don't track or look at a time for me to respond to emails, because I'm really quick with that. It's on my phone and I'm really quick with responding to emails. Stuff, if you're getting junk emails or if you're getting newsletters from other places, pretty easily I can keep track of which ones are newsletters. If they're just newsletters, I usually just leave them as unread and then at the end of the night, if I have time before I'm going to bed, then I'll quickly go over them. I'm only responding to emails which are written by a person and not automated. If you write me an email, Robert Plank, and has a subject line which tells me that it's written by you not an automated program, then I'm going to open that email and I'm going to respond to that. If it's a newsletter email, let's say Amazon sending you something or some other newsletter you're subscribed to, then I usually leave them at the end of the day. If I'm looking at them at the end of the day, then by that very nature I've already went through my day and that's just the spare time that I am using.
Another thing as far as trading is concerned, most of the trading that I am doing, is divided into two ways of trading. One is the day trading style, which I'm trading 9:30 in the morning to 11:30. At that time, 9:30 to 11:30, I'm right there. After 11:30, I'm out of all the positions, so I don't have anything open positions to really look at the prices. Then I have a long term position portfolio, which I look at maybe once a day or maybe twice a week or something like that. I made strict rules in my long term account not to look at the stocks from day to day, otherwise they'll just drive you crazy.
Robert Plank: It sounds like the recurring theme I'm hearing about all of this time managements stuff is that you have not too many rules, but just enough rules in place where you follow them and then it ends up just being something that you can manage and keep going in that direction.
Anmol Singh: Exactly. People just need to ask themselves two questions. Did I get done what I intended to finish today? The answer is no then you've got to really look back and re-evaluate your schedule and your time management, but if you got everything you wanted to get done anyway, then you can ignore the experts because you got the work done and that's really all that matters.
Robert Plank: Amen to that. As we're winding down this call, can you tell us the biggest common mistake you're seeing as far as entrepreneurs or people trying to make their dream happen? What's the mistake you keep seeing over and over?
Anmol Singh: The mistake that I keep seeing over and over is people don't do what they say they were going to do. That's the number one thing. You got to do what you say you're going to do. If your goal is to, "Hey, I'm going to launch this new clothing company," again, take the first two steps first. Do what you say you're going to do is number one. A lot of people say a lot of things. For example, I'll just use myself as example, I say, "Hey. I'm going to start eating healthier from this morning," but then I woke up and I had a sugary drink. For me, that was bad. That's something. Just do what you say you're going to do is number one thing. Number two is to stop dreaming and taking action, because all of this with this lifestyle driven entry in marketing these days, there's so much motivation, there's so much lifestyle driven stuff that people want to achieve but they just say, "Yes. I want it. Yes. I want it." They get really motivated. They get really pumped up but then the action doesn't translate. The action doesn't show that you've taken steps that you really do want it. Wanting without execution is just dreaming.
Robert Plank: Both of those things combined ends up being a pretty powerful message. Do what you say you'll do and then stop dreaming and take action. Anmol, I really like everything you have to say and I want to tell everybody about where to find you, so where can they locate you and find out what you do?
Anmol Singh: Sure. Best way for people to keep in touch with me would be to go to the website LiveTraders.com and then anywhere else on social media if you search my handle DeltaNinety and it's all spelled out Deltaninety, it's all spelled out. Anywhere you go on social media, be it Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, Snap chat, whatever there is, you search Deltaninety and you'll find me on there.
Robert Plank: LiveTraders.com and DeltaNinety. Anmol, thanks for being on the show, I really appreciate having you here.
Anmol Singh: Sure. Thanks for having me.
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106: Strengthen Your Faith While Building a Profitable Business with Tasha Scott
Tasha Scott, a "recovering victim" and author of "Don't Limit Me" shares her insights to get the most out of your day and become your best self. Tasha shares with us:
- how a coach gave her that safe place to resolve out one problem after another
- how journaling gave her a no-judgement zone
- how she discovered the best way to communicate without getting emotional (and avoid the extremes of being "too quiet" or a "complainer")
- and more!
Tasha Scott: Thank you Robert, I'm excited to be here.
Robert Plank: Tell me about yourself. Tell me about this "Don't Limit Me" and what makes you special.
Tasha Scott: Sure, sure. Well I tell people all the time that I have been an entrepreneur all my life, literally it feels like because my first business was a paper route when I was in the eighth grade. Fast forward after just going through life, growing up, I ended up enrolling in court reporting school and learning how to be a court reporter. That's literally where my business was born, right after I graduated from court reporting school. In this journey, Robert, I was married. The first year of business was really good. In fact, I hit six figures my first year as a court reporter. What people didn't know though was that in the midst of business looking really good, my personal life was a mess. There was a huge disconnect between what looked like a public success and a private failure.
There was a lot of lessons that I learned that year because one, I didn't have a plan for the growth of the business. All I knew was that I had a dream to be an entrepreneur. I had my goals and my vision, and I was ready to go. I accomplished everything that I wanted to do that first year, but I felt empty because of all of the turmoil that was happening at home in the form of marriage problems, financial problems, insecurity, all of those things that you would've thought money would've been the solution, but it wasn't. One of the things that I did, Robert, is I reached out for help. For me, help came in the form of a life coach.
This life coach, when I reached out to her, she literally took me for six months. We had sessions over the phone, we met every other week. What I found out was that I was hiding behind a mask. I knew how to perform. I knew how to function, but I didn't know how to live. That's why I had the huge disconnect. I didn't really know Tasha outside of the business, outside of the role. What she did is she literally just walked with me and helped me to face some fears, and some of those fears had even stemmed from childhood. Fear of rejection, fear of failure, fear of success. All of those things we had to walk through and I had to learn to take responsibility for me. I had to get out of victim mode and stop thinking that it was everybody else's fault why I wasn't happy, why I was miserable, all those things including my husband.
She really helped me to get my want-to back from life because when I faced my fears, I realized that it wasn't as bad as it seems. It literally just meant me owning it. It took me owning it, facing it, and moving forward. What happened, and I'm giving you the Reader's Digest version, was as I started owning my stuff basically, facing my fears, I started gaining confidence again. I started taking responsibility. I started to get to know Tasha. Literally what happened is as a result of my journaling, that's where my book was born, the "Don't Limit Me" book because one day I looked myself in the mirror, Robert, and I said, "Tasha, don't limit me." I realized for the first time I was the only one holding me back. I had some good opportunities ahead, but I was self-sabotaging. For the first time, I said, "No, don't limit me Tasha." With the help of this life coach, my life started turning around. In fact, my marriage was restored. My business started growing because it was growing under a healthier leadership, which was me.
Robert Plank: I love all that about that story, especially because what we usually hear is like someone struggling, someone struggling, they don't quite make it. It sounds like you jumped ahead pretty quickly but then it turned into, what's that saying? "Money makes you more of what you are." We always think that having a bunch of money, like you said, is the key to all our problems. It'll fix everything, but then you get to that point and it's almost like a combination of "now what?" and then all these other problems that were just really tiny now are 10 times, 20 times the size. "Now what the heck am I going to do about it?"
Tasha Scott: That's right. What happened in my case is the money that I was making, the business growth really exposed my fears more than anything. It was like because of the fear of success, I was afraid. "Can I really handle this?"
Robert Plank: That makes a lot of sense. Speaking along those lines about the fear of failure, the fear of success, one that I like that you mentioned a couple minutes ago was about you owning your problems.
Tasha Scott: Right.
Robert Plank: I think that I struggle with that many times and I have to remind myself too that if things aren't ideal with the partner or with the job or with whatever kind of relationship, it's really easy, almost natural, to blame the other person.
Tasha Scott: Oh yeah.
Robert Plank: Then I think, "Well, whatever economic situation, whatever relationship, I put myself there and I'm choosing to keep myself there." Can you talk a little bit about that, about how you overcame the blaming and the self-sabotage and becoming more aware?
Tasha Scott: Oh absolutely. You're talking to somebody who is a recovering victim.
Robert Plank: I like that term.
Tasha Scott: Yeah, because it was all my husband's fault. The reason why our marriage couldn't get together. It was my parents' fault, it was my friends' fault because they didn't understand me. Everybody was to blame. Then this coach, she's the one who called me out. I told her, "I don't know why people always think I have it all together" and da da da. She said, "Well Tasha, have you told them any different?" What she did is she put the mirror in front of me, and she said, "I hear what you're saying." This is what she was saying in so many words, "Let's talk about you. What part are you playing in all of this?" Here's what she said: "Even if they are wrong, why are you putting up with it? You do have a choice."
Robert Plank: Oh yeah. What you allow is what will continue.
Tasha Scott: That's right. She used a great illustration. She said, "Imagine I'm sitting across from you and I'm kicking you leg. You might say 'Please don't do that' and I say 'Well I want to.' You keep kicking my leg and I say 'Please stop' and you say 'No, this is fun.' The only way it's going to stop and because you're persisting is if I get up and walk away."
Robert Plank: Or you could kick back, right?
Tasha Scott: That's true, yes.
Robert Plank: It sounds like a lot of what helped you is that you had this coach, this neutral third party to call you on your stuff. When you need a wake-up call, someone who wasn't someone who had their own agenda, who wasn't someone who was trying to help themselves or hurt you. Just someone who said, "Okay, well I'm seeing everything that you're doing here, Tasha, and here's what I'm seeing based on your actions and here's what I think needs to change as far as the direction you're going."
Tasha Scott: That's right on, Robert. I've specifically said I need somebody who has no emotional connections to me, to my husband, to my community. In fact, my life coach, she's in Pennsylvania. I'm in Alabama. We spoke by phone. There was no reason for me to lie or be dishonest or try to filter anything. She was a stranger and for some reason, it was easier for me to unleash and allow her to help me without taking sides or anything like that.
Robert Plank: I like that what you just mentioned is that the lying stopped. I think that it's really easy to fall into the habit of just having a few lies here and there. You lie a little bit to get ahead or you lie to yourself about, "Well I'm going to get all these things accomplished today." Before you know it, there's so many little tidbits of lying happening that you almost don't take yourself seriously.
Tasha Scott: That's right. It's pretty scary when you can't even live with you anymore. That's a miserable place to be. That's why I reached out for help because I was at a point of desperation.
Robert Plank: Anyone else who's at that point of desperation other than getting a life coach? What's the second thing someone could do to get out of that hole?
Tasha Scott: Journaling was a big thing for me because I would say my journaling was my no-judgement zone. Sometimes it's easier to express yourself in writing because when you're writing it out, you're writing out those thoughts that you're afraid to speak out of your mouth. Journaling was a really huge thing for me. Also, I'm a person of faith but ironically in that time period, I would say I was even mad at God. I would say honestly what really triggered everything for me was having the life coach and the journaling. Those were the two big factors because she even helped me to deal with unresolved anger issues.
Robert Plank: You're saying that she uncovered things that you didn't even know you had.
Tasha Scott: Absolutely. She challenged me in a very gently, non-judgmental way.
Robert Plank: Whoa, is there a thunderstorm there?
Tasha Scott: It is. It just started raining like crazy.
Robert Plank: Aw man, and it's perfect timing because you're talking about all the turmoil and all of the problems you've been though. Eventually the storms always clear, right?
Tasha Scott: That's right. There's always sunshine after the rain.
Robert Plank: Once all of the stuff gets cleaned out, which is a necessary process sometimes. I'm glad that you brought up and reminded me of journaling because that's one of those things where it's like I know I should do it and probably once ever one or two months, I'll go and fish it out of the drawer. I'll just write a couple of sentences or two. That comes in handy especially if I'm feeling like really stuck or to that hopeless point of despair like I've been getting too stressed out. It seems so simple, but it's so crazy how just putting it into a few words about what I'm feeling, what I'm afraid of, what I want. Just putting that down, it's magical. I can't believe how simple and yet how effective that is.
Tasha Scott: That's right. She taught me how to stop stuffing my issues. In other words, when things were happening, starting to face them as they were happening. My problem was I would go and hide my head in the sand and not face my real issues, but that only made things worse. She taught me how to speak up, how to confront without being disrespectful to yourself or to other people, how to set proper boundaries. She taught me the power of saying "no" because I was a people pleaser. That's a bad combination when you're in business and you're a people pleaser. That's a disaster waiting to happen.
Robert Plank: Oh yeah. Then you get too many commitments, spread too thin, all that stuff.
Tasha Scott: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Robert Plank: Could you unpack that a little bit? How to be more of a confronter, how to be more assertive, how to set those boundaries and say "no less?"
Tasha Scott: Sure. I'll start with within the confines of a relationship. I'll use my husband and I for example. What I did was I started having to learn how to communicate without getting emotional and all this stuff because it was like a dance. We were starting to be so predictable with each other. I would say something and he would think I was attacking and all this. I learned how to communicate truth in a respectful way. In other words, if he said something that hurt my feelings, I can say, "That hurt my feelings" without attacking him and him feeling like he's the most awful person in the world. That was in the confines of the marriage relationship, but then when it came to clients I had to learn that especially in what I'm doing as a coach that I am not somebody's savior. She taught me that by example. She could listen to me and she could be that voice of reason, but at the end of the day the responsibility and the choice was mine to make.
A lot of it, if I had to put it in a word, was codependency. I had to stop making other people's problems my problems but still give people permission to be themselves too and not be judgmental, all those different things.
Robert Plank: I like that thinking. I like all of that. Cool. As far as somebody trying to get their life together or trying to up their game or any of those kinds of things, aside from what we've talked about what's a huge mistake that you see these people making over and over when they're trying to either have better relationships or be more assertive? What's the common mistake no matter what they've read or what they've heard? What do people keep doing that just annoys the heck out of you?
Tasha Scott: There's two extremes. One extreme is you go all the way quiet and you just withdraw. What I call that is suffering in silence. You try to cope and muster up all the willpower you can to deal with it. We were not made to be islands; we were made for connection with other people. That's one extreme, is withdrawing all the way to where you think, "Nobody will get me, nobody will understand me." The other extreme is talking to every and anybody thinking that they're going to just rescue you from this situation. I would say the mistakes are both extremes.
Robert Plank: I would say that I'm more of like the quiet, withdrawing kind of person. Both my parents, especially my dad, were the talk-to-anybody. I think the problem with that was that he would just end up figuring out four or five problems. I guess it's good to tell one person, but he would tell everybody. He would call the same list of 20 people and all day long just bitch and moan about the same exact problems he had, and just get worked up every single time and not really get any kind of resolution there.
Tasha Scott: Yeah. All it does is cause confusion.
Robert Plank: What's the answer if you're one of those extremes?
Tasha Scott: Find a safe place. What I mean by that is now, I'm in a place where I have a support system. My support system, I can count on one hand. I believe we all need people who know the real us. I have my coaches, but I also have accountability partners. I've got two ladies that I would say, "These are my accountability partners that know the real Tasha." Of course my husband. I talk to him, but you know how it is sometimes. Guys don't understand everything about the woman.
Robert Plank: Right. All we can do is listen.
Tasha Scott: Yes, so I have to have my girl time.
Robert Plank: I hear you.
Tasha Scott: I would say have your support system, and it doesn't need to be a whole lot of people.
Robert Plank: I like that thinking. I think that up until now, I hadn't really thought about that in those terms, that in our personal life we have our partner, our friends, our family. We have people that we can bounce things off of, but a lot of times especially in our business, we don't have that kind of person. What you're saying is even if you don't have a partner in your own business and things like that, you can go and hire an accountant building partner or hire just a coach in general to get you to where you're going to set up that structure.
Tasha Scott: That's right. Even in addition to the coach, you can have, some people call them a "business bestie," somebody that's up here that is success-minded, like-minded like you are that you can talk to in between the sessions with your coach.
Robert Plank: Oh, I like that. Just to have a bouncing board or something to throw ideas off against.
Tasha Scott: Yes, that's right. What I've found is that as I have that support system in place, it helps me when fear comes, when doubt and insecurity try to come I am able to process it now which is not what I did in the past. In the past, I would just worry and meditate on all the negativity. It was like toxin.
Robert Plank: It seems like one of those things where if it's left untreated, it just grows and grows and takes you over. It's almost as if you would fix the problem early, it wouldn't have been such a big deal but then because you let it sit and fester, everything else gets bad and you have this huge problem to fix.
Tasha Scott: That's exactly right. I say everybody needs a support system.
Robert Plank: Amen to that. That makes a lot of sense to me. Cool. A lot of great things you shared with us today, Tasha. I really like your story. I like all the court reporter stuff and how you jumped to this unexpected area where you had all this money and had to figure out how to figure out the rest of you. It sounds like the number one thing you told people is to get a coach, number two thing is to journal so you have that no-judgment zone, and then communicate without getting emotional. That way, you can share the truth about your own feelings so your stuff doesn't get ignored but you're also being respectful.
Tasha Scott: That's right.
Robert Plank: If people want to find out more about you, your books, your products, your coaching, where can they find out about you?
Tasha Scott: Sure. My website is TashaMScott.com. They can definitely find out a lot about me there. One of the things I vowed to do because I got that kind help, I decided to go and become a certified life coach myself so that I could be that safe place for others, especially women in business.
Robert Plank: Nice, and especially because you've gone through all the things that they're now probably going through.
Tasha Scott: That's right.
Robert Plank: Awesome. TashaMScott.com, can't wait to check it out and see what's there.
Tasha Scott: Yes, thank you so much for this opportunity.
Robert Plank: Glad to have you on.
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105: Leverage LinkedIn and Network Your Way to New Connections with Mike Shelah
LinkedIn master Mike Shelah talks to us about the ABC's of LinkedIn: Always Be Connecting, Always Be Cultivating, and Always Be Customizing. Use the LinkedIn social network to find your dream job or get an "in" with whatever joint venture you want to achieve.
Mike Shelah: Robert, things are wonderful. Thank you so much for having me on the show.
Robert Plank: I'm glad to have you, and the big reason is because ... I mean, this site called "LinkedIn." Maybe I should get logged in right now. LinkedIn. I have an account. I filled stuff out. I've made a group. I've done a couple different things, but I really don't get it, so I'm hoping that you could clear a bunch of things up about it today.
Mike Shelah: Yeah. I am happy to do so. Because of people like you, I have a career, so I am grateful for that.
Robert Plank: Nice, so tell us about it.
Mike Shelah: The first thing that I like to say is what LinkedIn is not, and it's not Facebook. A lot of people are very familiar with Facebook. They enjoy it, and they engage on it on a regular basis, and then they look at their LinkedIn profile almost next to never. They occasionally log in to see if they have new invitation requests. They'll use it rather heavily if they're looking for a job, and sales professionals to some extent are better at using it, but even most sales professionals really use LinkedIn incorrectly.
Here's what I mean by that. Over the years, I've developed what I call the "ABCs of LinkedIn," and I don't mean always be closing. Most people think of Alec Baldwin in the movie Glengarry Glen Ross where he goes, "Always be closing. Coffee is for closers." I think that might be one of the most despicable things that's ever happened to sales because people really look at sales that way that you have to beat people over the head with a hammer in order to get them to buy your product, or you have to trick them, or you have to manipulate them, and that's not what sales is.
The most important piece of sales is if you imagine the products and services that your company offers as a circle, and then you imagine your customers' needs as another circle, and then you imagine your competitors' needs as a third circle.
Robert Plank: Okay.
Mike Shelah: There's a spot where all three of those circles lay over each other, and specifically, there's a spot where your circle lays over your customers' circle and your competition's circle doesn't, and that's the value edge. That's the differentiator that makes you the preferred vendor over your competition, and LinkedIn can do such an effective job of helping people sell. When I say sell, I like to remind people that looking for a job is temporary sales. Very rarely are salespeople out of a job for a long time because they're used to selling themselves, and most people that are not in the sales world, they don't embrace the sales mentality because they don't want to be viewed as salesy, and I can appreciate that.
Robert Plank: Got you.
Mike Shelah: There's a lot of horrible examples, but LinkedIn is an incredibly powerful tool to find clients and to find your dream job, and I'll start with the first ABC which is "Always Be Connecting." I did a speaking engagement for the Baltimore Business Journal here in Maryland a couple weeks ago. I had a great audience, and when I began speaking, I told the audience, "I want you to look to your left. I want you to look to your right, and what you should have seen are people."
Human nature inclines us to sit next to people we already know, and if you do that, you're doing networking wrong. The whole idea of networking is to sit next to people you don't know and strike up a conversation. It doesn't have to be a sales pitch, and it doesn't have to be deeply probing, but let people know that you're not a stalker, and that you're friendly, and that you're human, and that's the connection. That's the first piece.
What I tell my audience is, "You go to that event. You collect 10, 15 business cards, people you never met before, and the first thing you should do when you go home is send them connection requests on LinkedIn to say, ‘Hey, Patrick. It was great meeting you at the event last night. I hope we have the opportunity to do some business together this year.'" What I just touched on there were the other 2 ABCs which are "Always Be Cultivating" and "Always Be Customizing."
Here's what I mean by "Always Be Customizing." LinkedIn has all these generic responses. For example, if you send a connection request, it says, "I would like to add you to my professional network on LinkedIn." If the person you're trying to connect with has any level of stature, meaning they're not regular people like you and me, but they're an executive level, they're not going to accept that connection unless you're higher on the totem pole than them.
For example, if you're Dale Carnegie and you send a connection request to a C-level executive, C-level executives probably are going to accept that connection request from Dale Carnegie if you're still alive because he's a step above the totem pole. Anybody below you on the totem pole, you're not accepting from. You're just not, unless you're introduced to that person or that person sent you a message that had a direct value to you and your company.
Robert Plank: Could you explain that a little bit because like one of the first things you said here was that LinkedIn is not like Facebook? When I go on LinkedIn like I had a profile to fill out, I ... and other people to like I guess friend request or connect, but then I've noticed this too like some people I'm connected like 2 connections away or something, and there's some kind of a link for the person in between us to do this introduction thing.
Mike Shelah: Introductions are probably the most valuable piece of LinkedIn. It's what they call the "second degree connection" because my network is valuable to me. My network is probably more valuable to you because it's potential. It's the potential to do great things, and the way I explain this is ... Again, this can work for a salesperson. It can work for a person in a job market. Come up with your top 5 accounts you want to go after or the top 5 companies you'd like to work for.
You could do that just as a general search right at the top of LinkedIn, and then you search the job title. It could be a hiring manager. If you're in finance, you would probably work for a controller or a CFO. If you're in technology, you might work for a director of IT or you might work for a CIO. Depending on your industry, what's the title of the person that you would report to? Then, do a search for that title. The nice thing about LinkedIn is if you type in "CFO," it will also pull up everyone that says, "Chief Financial Officer." It knows certain abbreviations like that, the more common ones.
Robert Plank: Cool.
Mike Shelah: You've got that ... Go ahead.
Robert Plank: Go ahead. I was going to say like ... This is all new to me because to be honest like from what I had seen of LinkedIn, I honestly didn't even know until right this second that there were jobs ... There were actually like real-world jobs on LinkedIn like this was new to me. All I thought that was that you could fill out your own basically resume. You could make like a blog post on there. You can make your connections.
As you were saying that, I just searched ... I was searching in the search bar like Google and Dropbox, and it shows me all of the job openings, and then there are a lot of tiny things like there's a thing that shows me who ... Like people who went to the same college as me who also work at that company. That's huge, and even as far as what you're talking about as far as like the middleman basically like the people making the introduction, so now, if I really wanted to work at a certain company, I really wanted a certain job, now I know who I can maybe talk to about that.
Mike Shelah: Absolutely, and you bring up a great point. You have to leverage your tribe. Seth Godin, famous writer, wrote a book called "Purple Cow," wrote a book called, "Linchpin," and he wrote a book called "Tribes." In that, he talks about how we are naturally comfortable of other people that we perceive to be the same or similar to us, and my favorite example of that is sports. Patrick, you're a sports fan?
Robert Plank: My name is Robert, and no. I like a little baseball, maybe a tiny bit basketball, but that's where it ends.
Mike Shelah: Okay, so not a sports fan, but let's talk about baseball just for a second then.
Robert Plank: Okay.
Mike Shelah: You know people that are crazy about baseball, right?
Robert Plank: Yeah, like fanatics.
Mike Shelah: Sure, and if you are from a certain area ... I live in Maryland. I'm an Orioles fan. If I'm out of town, I'm in North Carolina, I'm in Florida, I'm in California, and I see someone wearing an Orioles t-shirt, or an Orioles hat, or an Orioles jersey, the likelihood of me walking up to this total stranger and saying hello has gone up 800%, right?
Robert Plank: Right.
Mike Shelah: Think about your favorite musical band. It works the same way, something that you're passionate about. You're a comic book fan, if somebody has on a Superman t-shirt. Whatever your passion is, you identify with that group even though the person is a total stranger, and colleges are a great tribe. The bonding that comes from that, even if somebody went to the school 20 years before you or 20 years after you.
Robert Plank: It's still something.
Mike Shelah: Yeah. I got a meeting last summer with the CIO of a pretty big real estate company here in Maryland because when I looked him up on LinkedIn, I saw that he was a graduate of UMBC, which we referred to as the "Retrievers." That's our mascot, and so when I sent him a message, the message I sent to him didn't have a title about, "Bob, I'd like to tell you about my business." It didn't have any of that. The title of it said, "Go Retrievers."
Robert Plank: Nice.
Mike Shelah: Right there, I had that little something that 99% of the other salespeople didn't think to put in front of them, and I got the meeting, and I got the opportunity. When you think about leveraging relationships that way, think about getting a job. How much easier is it if you have the secret handshake, if the person sitting behind the counter went to the same college as you, went to the same high school as you, likes the same football team as you? The list is endless, and the best thing about LinkedIn is it gives you that ammunition ahead of time, and if you just have a mutual connection with them, that's my favorite because if it's somebody that you know well and they know well, you're practically guaranteed to win the opportunity.
Robert Plank: Cool, so about LinkedIn and all the stuff. What kind of big mistake other than these couple of ABCs like the lack of customizing and lack of being personal, what's like a huge, huge mistake you're seeing all over the place with other people on LinkedIn?
Mike Shelah: The 3 big ones are, they are not having a complete profile. For example, there's a section that you can add that's called "Advice for Contact." Why on earth wouldn't you add that? Put a phone number in there. Put an email in there. Make it easy for people to engage you, and I've had some people say to me "Mike, I don't want my personal information out there," and my response to that is, "Well, first of all, it's probably out there. If somebody really wants it, they can find it."
If you're uncomfortable, and I appreciate that, it's very easy to set up an alternate email just for LinkedIn. You could do that through Google, Yahoo. Any number of platforms will give you a free email that you can create just for your LinkedIn account, and you can get a Google Voice number to pair with your cellphone. If you go to my profile, the number on there is my personal cellphone. I don't have any problem sharing that, and I think I can count on 1 hand how many times somebody has actually called me that I didn't know already.
If you want that extra layer of protection, just go to Google Voice, sign up for your phone number, and the best thing is you can get that number from any part of the country. If you are in Maryland and you want a California number, you want a Los Angeles number, you can pull that from the dropdown menu on Google Voice and it will give you a Los Angeles number. The nice thing is you could turn it on and off. You could do a customized greeting. Whenever anybody calls you, before you accept the call, it gives you an announcement of who it is calling and gives you the choice to accept the call or send it to voicemail, so that's one of the first things.
Robert Plank: That's pretty powerful stuff so far.
Mike Shelah: That's the first piece is make sure your profile is full and complete. Put in your volunteer experience. Put in your interests because interests act as keywords and can help people find you through a keyword search. In addition to ...
Robert Plank: I like that, and even, I'm looking at ... I'm on LinkedIn right now for the first time in a couple of years, and I'm looking at my profile, and there's like some pop-up where you can check off like, "Do you care about these certain causes?" like, "Do you care about animal welfare? Do you care about disaster relief?" That's cool because it seems like with LinkedIn like the more information, the more stuff that's indexed, the better because then, like you're saying, if you're making some new connection with someone for whatever reason ... Even if you haven't gone to the same school, even if you can't find any music, or sports, or location in common, then maybe you have the ... like education, or human rights, or politics in common. Like there's all these different things it seems now that they have listed where you can find something in common with someone.
Mike Shelah: Yeah. I'll share a quick story with you about that. About a year and a half ago, I was working with a director of IT for a transport company here in Maryland. They had the big armored trucks that take the money from the retail stores to the bank. One of those companies.
Robert Plank: Yeah.
Mike Shelah: I got a call set up with the director of IT, and it's her and me, and I'm waiting for my manager and my sales engineer to join the call. While waiting, I said, "Mary, I just have to ask you. I looked at your LinkedIn profile and it says under interests that you play Guitar Hero." I said, "Tell me more about that." I said, "I'm a huge Guitar Hero fan," and we spent the next 20 minutes talking about Guitar Hero.
Robert Plank: Awesome.
Mike Shelah: She had played it at work one day as a goof, and she loved it so much, she ended up buying it for her grandkids, and they have the guitars, and the drums, and they sing together. I said, "Oh, what's your favorite song?" She said, "Oh, I do Livin' on a Prayer by Bon Jovi," I never met her before, and we had that connection, and I ... gave me something to fuel the fire even though we had never met before. After the call, my manager says to me, "I was on the call for about 15 minutes, but I kept silent because I was listening to you engage the customer."
Robert Plank: That's cool.
Mike Shelah: Yeah. It's just another great little piece about LinkedIn. The other 2 things that people really want to be aware of and be proactive about is keywords. What I mean by that is you want to create your profile for the job that you want or the client you are seeking, and I'll give you a couple of examples of that. I worked with a lot of college students, and they will tell me, "Well, Mike, my degree is engineering, but I don't have any experience in engineering." I'm like, "You absolutely have experience in engineering. You have 4 years of school." He said, "But that's not real-life experience."
Here's the thing. You have the skills. You have the certifications. You have the accreditation. You were to put those terms throughout your profile. You want them in your summary section. You want them in your headline at the top of the page. You want them in your school experience. You want them all over your profile because that will move you up the link in search rankings, and it will move you ahead of the other people that want that job.
In addition to that, even though you don't have experience working as an engineer, you have plenty of valuable work experience. Most college students at one point or another worked in a restaurant. They either bus tables, or they're a waiter or a waitress, or they're a bartender, or they're a cook, and you want to talk about a high-pace environment with extreme pressure, and working as a team, and collaborating. It's some of the best experience in the world.
When you can convey that, when you could convey that you're promoted from just being a waiter to being a shift leader, that you were promoted from being a bartender to an assistant general manager, when you could show those leadership skills in your profile, companies want to hire that. They want to hire people that can think and can lead in addition to having the technical expertise to fill the specifics of the job.
Robert Plank: It sounds like there's all those little tidbits to look better than all of your other competitors trying to get that same job?
Mike Shelah: Yeah, the better job you do of completing that profile and putting your best foot forward. LinkedIn has search algorithms built in to it, and if somebody searches keywords ... For example, nobody searches for telecom salesperson. They don't do that. They look for the things that the telecom salesperson could sell them, and if you have those keywords in your profile enough, then you will move higher than the person whose profile says they're a telecom salesperson.
Robert Plank: That makes a lot of sense.
Mike Shelah: Then, the last piece is the profile picture. The short version of this is, again, this is not Facebook. It should not be a picture of you with your spouse, you with your boyfriend or girlfriend, you with your kids, you leaning on a car, you drinking an alcoholic beverage, you at a party, you in a bathing suit. It shouldn't be any of those things. It should be a clear, up-close picture that shows you from about the shoulders up, and you should be in professional attire, and preferably, it should be taken by a professional. That's usually about a $100 to $120 investment.
For people that are on a budget, what I say is, "Find a wall with a neutral background that's well-lit. Have somebody take a fairly close-up picture." Don't make it a selfie. Do not do that. Have somebody else take the photo, and use that until you can get a professional to take your photo. If you're on a budget, there are a couple of ways to get your photo less expensively. Here in Maryland, the Baltimore Business Journal does an expo, a business expo twice a year, and once of the things that they offer is there's a vendor right by the front door that is set up there that does photos all day long, and they do them for roughly half price. They do them about $50 or $60. That's one way to get it less expensively.
Last year, LinkedIn actually had a tour bus that went around the country. I think it made 12 stops across the United States. The big ones, New York City, Chicago, Washington DC, Los Angeles. You could register ahead of time to get a free LinkedIn profile photo on the LinkedIn photo bus.
Robert Plank: That's awesome. Just think, once we figure out drone technology, you could just say, "Fly a drone over to me," and it will come, and hover over to you, and snap your picture, right?
Mike Shelah: There you go. Someday.
Robert Plank: Cool. I think that I'm starting to get LinkedIn. It seems to me like ... You keep saying that it's different than Facebook, and I think that just from what I'm hearing, it's like ... There's a lot of times when Facebook is inappropriate, and a lot of times when like you don't really know someone. Like you said, like there's the time when you talked to the woman about Guitar Hero, and it's like you're going in and trying to find a job. We're going in for a job interview like you're not going to go and add someone on Facebook. That's almost creepy, but it seems like with LinkedIn, it doesn't have the creepiness of Facebook or the ... Like you said, the party or the extra weirdness of Facebook that might turn people off or disqualify you, but it has all these little details, and things, and more like stories about you. Things that break the ice, I guess.
I really like everything you shared with us today, Mike. I really liked about the ABCs of LinkedIn, "Always Be Connecting," "Always Be Cultivating," "Always Be Customizing." I like how you told us to have a complete profile and put an email address in there. If you're afraid of sharing your email address, get a forwarder. If you're afraid of sharing your phone number, get a Google Voice number. Put some keywords in there for the job you want, and for different skills and things you have, and put a profile picture.
Even earlier in this call, I was ... As I said, I logged in to LinkedIn for a minute, and I noticed that there were a couple of people that I'd known from college like in the list, when I searched for like jobs or places that will be cool to work, and near the bottom, there were a couple of people who I knew but didn't have a profile picture. They filled out a couple of things, but no picture, so guess what? There were at the very bottom of the search results. Even them, like I didn't ... I wasn't compelled to even go and talk to them and say hi because I'm thinking, "Man, if they don't have a profile picture, they must not even be using this. If I send them a message, there's going to be no one there to even see it because they haven't even spent the 10 seconds to put a picture on there."
Mike Shelah: Yeah. There's a lot of truth to how human nature makes us perceive that sort of thing. We trust the face. You really ...
Robert Plank: Yeah, because ... Yeah. You're on a website, you're on a computer, and you see someone's profile without a face or a picture, it's just like, "Oh, it's a machine right there. It's a computer." You see the face, "Okay. Now, it's a real person." Man, I really like all the stuff you've been talking about us with LinkedIn, Mike, so could you tell us where people can find out more about you and get more of your LinkedIn training?
Mike Shelah: Absolutely. Thank you, Robert. I tell people I'm very "googleable." I'm very easy to find once you know how to spell my name, Mike Shelah, which is S-H-E-L-A-H. You could go to my website, which is mikeshelah.com. You will find me on LinkedIn naturally. You will find me on Twitter, @Mikeshelah. You'll find me on Instagram, @Mikeshelah. You'll find me on Facebook, Mike Shelah Consulting, and for your listeners today, 2 things. Anybody listening to the show can go to my website right now, mikeshelah.com, and they could sign up to get a free 3-page review of their profile where I customize it, I review their profile, and I give them my top 12 items for enhancing their profile as well as my 5 tips and tricks for really getting the most value out of LinkedIn. That's first. That's for anybody listening to the show.
In addition to that, I do one-on-one coaching sessions with people. I could do them in person or I could do via Skype, and those sessions are 90 minutes for $500. The first 3 people from your show that send me a connection request on LinkedIn and say, "Hey, Mike. I heard you on Robert Plank Show. I loved it. I want you to coach me," they get that first session half price for just $250.
Robert Plank: Awesome, so where can they go to get that, that specific offer?
Mike Shelah: They go to www.mikeshelah.com.
Robert Plank: Okay, and they can get to the coaching offer and all that from that page?
Mike Shelah: Yeah. All they have to do is when they connect with me on LinkedIn and say, "Mike, I heard you on Robert Plank Show," and they will get the 50% discount.
Robert Plank: Awesome. Cool. Lots of golden nuggets about LinkedIn, Mike, and thanks for being on the show and sharing everything you have to share with us.
Mike Shelah: Robert, thank you for having me on the show tonight. It's been a lot of fun.
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