222: The Book Doctor Is In: Self-Publish a Book, Build Your Platform, and Get Noticed with Stacey Aaronson

Robert Plank 0:00 Robert Plank Show, episode 222, the book doctor is in self publish the book. Build your platform and get noticed with Stacy aaronson, Hey everyone, and welcome back to the Robert Plank show, where we talk about making money and building an online business. And our guest is Stacy aaronson, the fulfiller of publishing dreams, and she's a writer, editor, a layout artist and a cover designer, and she's the founder of the book doctor is in, which is a one stop shop for authors who want to self publish a book of excellence from cover to cover. So Stacy, how are things today?

Stacey Aaronson 0:37 Great. Thank you for having me on the show, Robert. I'm

Robert Plank 0:40 glad that you were on and so could you tell us about what it is that you do and what makes you stand out compared to people who do similar things that you do? Sure,

Stacey Aaronson 0:49 yeah, as you said in the introduction, I am an editor, a layout artist, a cover designer. I'm also a proof reader and overall, a publishing partner. So I work with authors who want to independently publish a book. I work with them from raw manuscript all the way to market. So what makes me stand out is that most people in this industry do kind of one thing or another thing, which is very common and typical to either be an editor or be a cover designer or be a layout artist. Those kinds of things are usually, you know, I do this or or I do that. Luckily for me, I have the skills and the passion and just the love for all these different things, and I have studied all of them, and so I've been able to package it into, you know, a tidy little one stop shop business, so that when authors want to work with one person, all the way from you know, starting out with that with that manuscript, to having the book live, they can have one single partner instead of having an entire team. Now that's not to say that having a team is a bad thing. That can certainly work for people, but for somebody who you know is a really great match. For me, their book resonates with me. We have a great harmony together. It's really wonderful to be able to work with one person on every single aspect of their book, as I said, from cover to cover,

Robert Plank 2:14 awesome. And so you mentioned in there that you know, you're the one stop shop, and then an alternative for people to have, sort of that, that big team and so, I mean, is there? I mean, does that, that whole having the team thing? I mean, is that, does that work sometimes? Or, like, is there a problems that sometimes happens with the team where, like, maybe, maybe the pieces don't fit together? Or, like, I mean, when does someone know if they should have the team or versus the one stop shop.

Stacey Aaronson 2:41 You know, I think it really depends on someone's goals and really what they're trying to accomplish and how and who they resonate with. So, for example, I just, I'm just finishing up a book with a team who actually hired another cover designer because I didn't have time in my schedule to do their cover, but I did have time to do a copy edit for them and their interior layout, so they wanted to work with me when I was actually pretty booked. And so instead of doing everything, they said, Well, what if we hire you to do this, this and this, but we hire someone else to do this. So you know, that actually worked out really well to have someone else do their cover, and then I did everything else. The times I think that it gets kind of tricky is when you have a lot of different personalities, and people have different expectations, or they have different work habits. So you may have a cover designer who isn't even in the United States, or that you know, the time zone is very different, and so communication might be difficult with that person, while you have your editor over here, who's working with you and working, you know, very, very steadily, and you're trying to get this cover designer to get, you know, kind of in tune with the with the editor, with the layout artist, to kind of get all The pieces to come together. And sometimes it's just difficult, either because of logistics or just because of the way that particular person works. So it's, you know, it's really just kind of making sure that every person who fits into your book team, if you are going to hire a team of people, is really in harmony with you in the best possible way, knowing up front, how they work, how they communicate, what kinds of timelines you're on. And sometimes it's just a little bit tricky to get all those moving pieces working together really seamlessly. And so as I said, if someone's book project is really a perfect match for me and we have harmony together as people then working together from start to finish is a really wonderful thing to do, but for some people, yes, you know, hiring a person here and a person there, it works fine. But I would say the people I have worked with who've done that have found it maybe a little more challenging at times, just because you're juggling lots of personalities and different workouts. At one time.

Robert Plank 5:00 And that makes perfect sense, especially, like, yeah, like, if, if one, if one person's super speedy, and maybe the cover designer is super slow, then in that team, like, one person might hold the whole thing up, just because one person is slower than the rest, and so, and so you mentioned that so all these different, you know, moving parts, as far as the, you know, the the cover and and, you know, editing it and making everything perfect. And so where are some ways that you're seeing some of these authors go wrong in making their book as good as it needs to be?

Stacey Aaronson 5:32 Well, really the biggest thing, and this is the the umbrella for everything that fits underneath it is that people going into writing or producing a book on their own. Think that self publishing means DIY, and it's understandable that people think that, because do it yourself and self publishing, that word self is in there. And so there's that sense of, oh, I'm supposed to do everything myself. But in reality, when you think about it, how many people are really trained as a book editor, as a layout artist, as a cover designer, as a proofreader, the majority of people are not going to have that kind of training as a writer, and a lot of writers aren't even technically writers. They're entrepreneurs or business people who want to write a book about what they do to help their clientele or their audience. And so writing isn't even necessarily their specialty, and yet they go into producing a book as though, oh well, I guess I'm supposed to do all of these things by myself. And nothing could be further from the truth. I like to just use a really quick analogy, that if you were going to build a house, for example, it would be pretty unusual for somebody to be a contractor and a plumber and an electrician, you know, and be able to do every single thing that that house is going to need to stand the test of time. You're going to need to hire people who are trained in these particular fields to do their job so that you can end up with a beautiful product in the end that will last, and a book, even though it's on a smaller scale, is very much the same way an author needs to go into the process, thinking of it as a as a publisher, not so much as a writer. So how does a publisher look at a book process? How do they look at how a book is going to be successful? Well, well, they have teams of professional people. They have an editorial staff, and they have an artistic and design staff specifically trained to create different parts of a book or to fine tune parts of a book. So when an author goes into it and wants to publish a book by himself, he needs to really think about, okay, I need to make sure that I have all the right people to do all the things necessary to make this book excellent, otherwise you end up with a really substandard book that has nothing to offer the audience or the author in terms of credibility, and that's the last thing you want. Unfortunately, I've seen a lot of people do this. They rush in, they write a book, they don't hire an editor, they don't hire designers, they just go with templates and they slap it up on Amazon, and it's a horrible book, and they end up getting bad reviews, and they end up kind of dashing their credibility, and then that book is stuck on Amazon forever, because you cannot get a book off of Amazon. There's really no way to do it. And so unfortunately, those people sometimes will find me after the fact and say, Okay, I thought I knew what I was doing the first time around, but clearly I didn't have I completely ruined my reputation as an author. Can I start over with you? And so I have, you know, helped people kind of recover themselves by by doing their books completely over again and putting out a new edition. But these, those are the kinds of things I don't want to see people do. I don't want people to be thinking, Oh, self publishing, I'm supposed to do it all by myself. No, what self publishing means is that you take responsibility as a publisher of your book, which means you have to think of yourself like a little miniature Random House or Penguin, or, you know, Simon and Schuster, you have to think like that, so that you're considering all the elements that are important for your book, so that you end up with a book that's a boost to your credibility, a gift to your audience, and something that people are really going to gain something positive from awesome.

Robert Plank 9:16 And that makes a lot of sense. Whereas, yeah, like with self publishing, like the self is only applied to the publishing part, right? It's not self whole entire process of the book. And I like the analogy where you said that, well, if you're even if you're going to build a house, you're not going to learn how to also be a plumber and also learn how to make the floors and the walls and the electricity. So that makes perfect sense there. And so can you kind of just to sort of help us understand what your process is. Could you sort of walk us through, like some kind of case study where you had some client and they came to you at, you know, point A, and you went through this process and ended up point B with a finished and published book.

Stacey Aaronson 9:55 Absolutely the way it typically works is when authors. Find me they have usually written their book, or they are in the process of writing their book, maybe close to finishing, and so they're looking for a partner to help them through all of the different steps. And usually people have no idea what that means. And frankly, that's Don't feel bad about that if you're in that boat right now, because it's publishing is a big industry, and as I said earlier, there are a lot of moving parts to it, and so it's great when you can have somebody to really walk you through the process. And the process looks much like this. Typically, you're going to start with editing. So what I will do is, when I get a manuscript, and this is obviously after, you know, we've had a consult, and a proposal has been written, and we have contracts, and, you know, we're actually entered into an official partnership. But what we do is we start with the editing process, which is the biggest chunk of what we are going to do together, and that is looking at all the aspects of the book in terms of structure. This is called developmental editing, by the way, we are looking at structure, you're looking at the intended benefit to the reader. Are the chapters cohesive? Are are all of the points you're trying to make within the right chapter, or things a bit disjointed, kind of, you know, all of those aspects of how the book is put together. And then the copy editing phase, which is sometimes separate from developmental editing, sometimes done concurrently. It depends on the editor. Some editors are really only good at structure and overall big picture, and some editors only focus on grammar and punctuation and all that good stuff. I happen to do both. So when I'm editing. I'm kind of doing everything at one time. But that is another aspect of what's happening is all of the language is being fine tuned. You're getting rid of repetitions, cliches, you know, obviously capitalization, punctuation and all of that stuff that has to do with grammar and syntax and all of that. So the book is being completely shaped and and fine tuned for the reader to make sure that the intended benefit to the readers is actually happening. Now that obviously applies to non fiction, fiction I don't work with as an editor. I do fiction with, you know, layout and cover and that kind of thing. But fiction editing is kind of its own little animal. And so there are editors who are trained in fiction and those who are more trained in nonfiction. So that's just a little tip to keep in mind that when you're seeking out an editor, which we could spend a whole show talking about, is that you want to make sure that that person is actually specializing in the type of book that you're writing. So mostly I work with non fiction writers. And so once we have that book really structured beautifully, everything is making sense. The flow is wonderful. We have the appropriate examples, illustrations. Maybe we need graphics and photos and things like that to support what we're sharing. All of that gets gets done first, and then once that is is finished, we really start looking at the presentation of the book, as far as the interior, what what it should look like, and the cover, and the cover and the interior really should have a marriage. So this is why, sometimes, if you have a cover designer over here and a layout artist over there, they may look completely different, like they don't go together, and that's really not how a book should look. There should be a nice cohesiveness between the two. So when I'm working with somebody, I'm looking at what kind of cover do we need to attract the particular audience for this book? And so we will work on cover design. I'll do concepts, get them back to the author, they'll chime in on what they like or don't or want to see different. And we basically just work together as a team till we have a cover the author loves. And we do the same thing with an interior concept. I take one chapter, I create an interior concept, and we fine tune it until the author's in love with that. So it's a very collaborative process. And then when we get to the point of being able to lay out that entire edited book, then we go into the phase where we upload the files to one of the self publishing platforms. I actually use CreateSpace, and I use Ingram. And then we go into a printed proof phase, so we were actually able to order printed books that look just like the books a customer or a reader will get one day. And we go through and we we do a professional proofreader, I do of that printed proof. And some people think, well, what's the difference between looking at a screen and looking at a book? And interestingly, reading a book in print is very, very different from looking at the book on screen, even if it's laid out the way it's going to look in the book, you just find so many things on the page that you don't necessarily see on a screen. It's very interesting. And so the author and I, and oftentimes another maybe small circle of qualified people. People do a proofread of that printed proof, and then we kind of bring all of our edits together. We put all of those, I put all of those into the book, we upload the files, and we get printed proofs again, and we go through the process again. And some people wonder, Well, why do you do this so many times? Because you would be so surprised how many times, you can still find small things, and so it's really important. I always leave eight to 10 weeks for proofreading, and that is the last big phase that we go through, and that allows us plenty of time to upload files, wait for them to be delivered to us, actually do the reading thoughtfully, and then go through, put in those corrections, and then go through the process again. And that way, when we get to the end of the road and we're ready to approve that book, we've been through it and through it, and the likelihood of there being any mistakes in there is really, really slim. I mean, everyone's human, and it can happen, but, but that's a really important part of the process, is not to just do all the pretty stuff, and then, boom, throw it up online, because there's so much to be done at the end before that book actually goes live. So once we've done that whole process, I also create the ebook from that final file, and then everything goes live, and that book is for sale. And then it's kind of up to the author to, you know, based on the platform they have created or built for themselves with an audience to market the book. So it's a great process. It's a lot of fun, it's a lot of work, but it's also really exciting and thrilling for me to be part of making someone's publishing dream come true. Cool

Robert Plank 16:38 and I mean, and it sounds like there, are a lot of steps to step through. But luckily, it's, it sounds like it's, it's, for the most part, kind of, you know, exactly where you're at, you know, kind of what, what phase you're in. It's just sort of to make sure that I got everything or that I understood about your process. And so, so first there's that consultation meeting where you figure out the book proposal and the contracts. And then you said that usually people come to you with either an almost finished or a finished book, and you do the editing and look at the structure and make sure that you know the chapters are making the right points and that it all makes sense. And then you go through and do that copy editing, and you do the big picture stuff and the grammar stuff and the take out the cliches and make sure the syntax and everything is right. And then you move on to the illustration and and all the graphics within the book. And then the next stage is the presentation. So you make sure that the interior is good, the cover is good, that it's right for the audience, and that the cover and the inside of the book both play well together and match up. And then once all that's figured out. Then you upload to create space. You upload to Ingram, and then that gives you the printed proof copy, and then you can proofread it, or you have multiple Proof Readers look at it and edit those things together, then re upload, then get the proofs again, and then catch those small things. And that whole final stage there is the final eight to 10 weeks, and then it's all live. And so at that point, did I hear you right? That at that point, once the book is live, that is sort of where, where, where your your help stops. And from that on, that point, it's their job to then promote the book for

Stacey Aaronson 18:15 the most part. Yes, and what I want to say about that, and by the way, that was an incredible recap. You clearly got it all. That was fantastic. Yes, one really important point I want to make here is that the marketing concept, the marketing the whole perspective of the audience of your book and how you're going to sell that book, it really begins before you begin writing the book, you really have to know your audience, and I'm assuming a lot of your audience, your listeners, are maybe non fiction writers, or they're business people who are thinking of writing a book to help promote their business or build their credibility as an entrepreneur. And that's an excellent an excellent goal to have, certainly. So I'm kind of speaking more to non fiction right now, instead of fiction, but just know that fiction is equally important. I actually write fiction, but for the sake of relating to the listener the best that we can. The way that you think about your audience shapes everything about how you write the book, how you design the book, because it's all about the reader. And so a lot of times, what happens is people get really focused on wanting to write a book to help boost their credibility, to show what they know about their subject, and they forget all about the fact that this is for a reader. It's for their benefit. So the best thing to do from the very beginning, and if you're writing a book and you're saying, oh my gosh, I didn't really think about that yet that's okay, as long as you do this somewhere in the process, or the earlier, the better. But to think about, you know, the pain points of your reader, what is the problem you're trying to solve for them? What is it that you're trying to help them accomplish that will give them more confidence or give them success in some area of their lives? So. Those are the points that you want to start with, and that's what you want to write to, and that's also what you want to be thinking about when you're working either with a team of people or with one partner like me, where, you know, I'm always asking about, well, who is your audience right from the start, who is your audience? Why are you writing this book? What is the goal of the book? And you know who is going to be reading it. And I'm spending a little extra time on this because this is so crucial. I don't want anyone listening to think that you jump in, you write a book, you find me, we partner up, we make a beautiful book. It's, you know, excellent. It's at the level of traditional publishing. And then I say, Okay, bye, have fun selling this book, and good luck, because that's not the way it should ever be. You should be thinking about the audience from the start, which is why, in a phone consult, that's one of my first questions. I ask is, who is your audience, and who are we creating this book for? Because, as I said, that dictates all the different moving parts of the book, the tone of the book. Is it going to be humorous? Is it going to be very professional or academic, or, you know, all of those kinds of things matter about, you know, the kinds of humor that we might use, or the tone of voice of the book, the kinds of examples we use, the illustrations we use, all of those kinds of things matter because you have to know exactly who your audience is first in order to accomplish that. And so what I always tell people when I'm working with them or when I start working with them, is that about 80 to 85% of this book production process is going to be on me. And so yes, it's very collaborative, and all of that and the editing part is definitely a back and forth. But while I'm doing all of that work on making your book excellent, the author needs to be looking at their platform and what they're building as far as a connection to that audience. Some people already have that with a podcast, like you do, or with with a blog, or, you know, any number of things that they have done to connect with an audience. But it's it's all about building that platform so that when your book comes out, it's not just, oh, I wrote a book, and here it is, and I'm going to try to sell it now. It's more building anticipation for that book, sharing little tidbits from the book as it's being produced, letting people know that it's coming, so that there's some anticipation for it. So when I say that, you know, I get to the end of the road, and the marketing really isn't something that I do at the same time. The the concept of the marketing of the book is something we talk about early on, and I try to help people get exactly in the right frame of mind to be building their audience during that four to six month period, if they haven't started doing it yet, because that's really the minimum time frame you need to be able to start building a relationship with an audience where they like you and they trust you, and then when your book comes out, hey, you know, I've been following that person on Facebook or on their blog or whatever, and I really like what they've been saying or what they've been sharing, and I'm excited about their book. So yes, it is definitely incumbent on the author to focus on the marketing and and there are lots and lots of different ways that marketing can happen, and a lot of it is free. It's more of an investment of time than an investment of money, but at the same time, it's something to be thinking about way early in the process. So I just wanted to make that very clear, because some people really think it's an A to Z process, but in reality, it's kind of almost more of a Z to A we think about how we're going to market it, and then we build the book from there.

Robert Plank 23:33 Awesome. And that makes sense, because, I mean, for a number of reasons, like, you know, like, if they don't, if people are just kind of going forward and taking these steps, not really realizing what the big picture is or what the goal is, then you know, it's almost guaranteed that they're not going to be happy with what it is. But, but if, if you in this initial meeting, you say, okay, like, why are you making the book, and who's the book for, and what kind of platform will you promote it? I mean, all of that, that makes perfect sense. And you said that. So the typical timeframe of this sort of process is four to six months. And so within that process, I mean, what kind of time commitment are your clients having to put in? I mean, is it like, like, an hour a week, as far as, like, you know, communicating with you and doing the steps they need to do on their end? Or, like, how much of a time commitment is in this four to six month period,

Stacey Aaronson 24:25 I would say the editing part is definitely the most of the time commitment that's going to happen. And that really depends on so many factors. It depends on the level of writing the book comes to me at or in, I should say so if the writer is quite an amateur, and the writing is really, I don't want to say bad, but sometimes I get bookstore, I have to do a lot of rewriting, a lot of reshaping, and the authors are very grateful, though they will admittedly say I've never written a book, or really haven't written much before. So it may not be that good, but that's why I have you so. And that's the process the author is going to be spending more time collaboratively with me. It might be, it might be three or four hours a week where I'm working on a chapter, and then I get a chapter back to them, and they need to read through, and they need to see, does it, does it feel like what I want to say, or do I want to add some material? And so it really depends on that level that the manuscript comes to me in when, when we start out. And so the editing part, I would say it could be anywhere from maybe a couple hours a week to maybe six hours a week. It just depends on how much the author is needing to work with me on making the book really great, as far as content, the design and the cover, the interior, all of that is really more of the of the author chiming in, yes, I love this. Or here's what I'd like to see different. So I'm doing the majority of the work, and they're just kind of saying, Can you change this? Or can you change that? There's really not a huge time commitment there. And then I would say toward the end, when we get to proofreading, that's where it's more of a concentrated commitment of time. So proofreading a book of an average length, say 200 or 250 pages, that might take 15 to 20 hours for somebody to do. It depends on the person and how they read. So that might be something that gets broken up, you know, into so many days, or maybe a week, or however that person can function and run a business and take care of a family, or whatever is going on. So that part, I would say, toward the end, the beginning and the end, kind of the bookends of the biggest commitment of time, and the rest of it is mostly stuff that I'm doing. And then, of course, there's communication going on all the time. So if you really counted in time for emailing or time for having phone calls together, you know, it might be up to five hours a week in certain phases of the book, but most of the time, people can function pretty well, running their business and doing things, and then also working with me, or it works out really well,

Robert Plank 27:07 cool. I mean, that's pretty reasonable. And then so, and then, what are how much of a cost are we talking like? I know that, you know, different, different people have different needs and stuff like that, but are we talking like, you know, five grand, 20 grand, 100 grand, like, what sort of price range or do people usually pay to go through this process with you?

Stacey Aaronson 27:26 Yeah, that's a really great question, and it really does depend on a lot of factors. Covers and interiors. Can can vary, you know, to some degree, based on how many concepts and how complex the book is. I actually do a lot of complex non fiction, and so some some interiors can be 15 to $1,800 based on the length of the book and how complex it is, whereas, if I'm laying out maybe a novel or a much more straightforward memoir or something like that, it might be a $600 interior. So the range can be quite a lot. The biggest part of the range really comes in editing, because, as I said earlier, it depends so much on so many different factors. What is the level of the writing in the actual raw manuscript? How complex is the book itself? So when you're thinking about editing, you really kind of want to be looking at a number anywhere from 1000 on the low end to like 3000 plus. Again, depends on length of book and type of book. But that is very common when you when you work with a great editor, that's what you want to be expecting to pay to get that book shaped into a real book of excellence that your readers are going to going to look at as as they would any other book in traditional publishing, covers can be anywhere from like 300 to 1000 I would say most of the time they're kind of more in the five or $600 range, although I know that there are some cover designers who have a flat fee of $1,000 there may be, you know, they've done a lot of books, or maybe they've been award winning, or that's just the way they operate. So it really depends. It's just important to interview different people and see what their costs are and what you're getting for what you're paying. As I mentioned, interiors are usually anywhere between like 600 to 1500 plus, on the higher end, for complex books and then proofreading is usually anywhere between it's you it's usually based on word count, so that can be anywhere from, you know, $2 per 250 words a page to 30 to $40 an hour is common. But overall, the the most common range that I work with with authors is between about 4000 to 6000 that's really like the most typical range of what a book costs to produce from start to finish. So that includes everything, all of the different phases of editing, the interior, the cover, the. Proofreading phases the ebook creation, and then the actual publishing part, and so it can go over that. If I'm creating a lot of graphics for a book, I also do promotional materials. So I create one sheets and media kits and bookmarks and postcards and all that kind of stuff that goes with the book. So that can bump it up, you know, a bit too. But in general, if you have a budget of between four and 6000 again, page count, word count, you know, all those things make a difference, then you won't be probably so shocked if you start getting proposals and you're like, wow, I thought this was gonna cost $500 and it's gonna cost a lot more. Or, you know, I It's rare that a book costs more than 8000 I would say that's usually about the high end of any book that I've done, and that's because it's very long, it's very complex. There's, there are a lot of bells and whistles in the book, or lots and lots of editing to be done. So, you know, if you, you know, get a quote for 20,000 or 30,000 to produce a book, I would say that's way out of line generally. So I would definitely say to kind of look for that sweet spot of, you know, around 5000 is kind of a good spot, but again, depends on the book that you're writing.

Robert Plank 31:18 Okay, cool. And I think that that, yeah, like, for that, that sort of price range and and for all the things that they get, I would say that's very reasonable, and that's way less of a price range than I expected from that, that whole process, and for you to be, you know, taking them through that, through this process, and, you know, be attentive on, on the things that they're trying to make, and finish the project and all that. And so I want to make sure that everyone knows all about you and all about your stuff and where to find you. So can you tell everyone about what kind of websites and things you have and where people can contact you, get in touch from you join your list, buy from you all that stuff.

Stacey Aaronson 31:56 Cheryl, thank you so much. I appreciate that my website is the book doctor is in.com it's just all one word that the book doctor is in.com and on my site, I have basically every single thing that I do, lots of a robust portfolio, testimonials, the whole nine yards you can you can fill out my questionnaire there, which lets me know What your book project's about. To see if I'm a good match for you. You can get on my mailing list there. It's kind of everything is right there at the bookdoctor is in.com I also have a blog, which is the self publishing scoop, that's S, C, O, O, p.com, and have a lot of articles there about all different aspects of book production and publishing and editing and all that good stuff. There's an article on there about what red flags to look for and questions to ask. So some really helpful articles there, if you are seeking out book production professionals, what to look for and what red flags to heed, and that kind of stuff. And that's that's pretty much it. If you go to the book doctors in.com you can contact me. You can reach out to me with the questionnaire, find out everything about what I do. And you know, if I'm a good match for you, then fantastic. But the main reason I like to to do interviews or talk to writing groups and all of that stuff is just to make sure that people know what kinds of steps they should be taking and what kinds of things not to do so that they don't end up really embarrassed and having that bad first book that they're kind of having to get over. So that's that's the most important thing to me, is that people don't meet those those bad missteps, and that they end up with a book they're really proud of, and that is a gift to their audience, perfect.

Robert Plank 33:38 You've seen enough horror stories that there is a better way and it doesn't have to be as difficult as a lot of people are making it. And like we said at the beginning, you've seen some people try to do it themselves and put in all this work just to have a bad book. And I'm sure that you've also seen other people try to just sort of hand it off to a ghost writer and maybe not have much of a hands on. So your solution seems super perfect for someone who wants to have that, that super, you know, great and finished book that helps people that looks as professional quality, that's actually finished, that's out there, but they also want to have some input, because guess what, it is their book as well. So everyone listening, if you're thinking of self publishing a book, if you're just kind of doing your research, or you're looking around, or wherever you are in that point, it can't hurt to check out Stacy and check out her website, at the self publishing scoop.com to get to the blog and get the information, but definitely go to the book doctor is in.com and go there and fill up that questionnaire to see if you're a good fit for Stacy and all of the amazing, huge library of services and that whole step by step process that she provides to you to take you from that those raw ideas, that raw creativity, the almost finished or the finished manuscript, into the completely finished and published and self published book. So thanks so much Stacy for hopping on the program and everyone go to the book. Doctor is in.com and Stacy, thanks for stopping by the show and sharing some of this cool knowledge with us. Thank

Stacey Aaronson 35:05 you so much. I really appreciate the opportunity to be here. Today's

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