565: Embrace the Messy: Increase Your Funnel Traffic Through Retargeting with Facebook and Twitter Ad Expert Gavin Bell

Speaker 1 0:00 Marketer of the Day episode 565, embrace the messy. Increase your funnel traffic through retargeting with Facebook and Twitter. Ad expert Gavin Bell, Hey

Robert Plank 0:11 everyone, and welcome back to the marketer of the day podcast. We're chatting with Gavin Bell, and Gavin has been at this internet marketing thing for pretty much forever. He played around with drop shipping from China. He still makes sales from it to this day, we'll hear about that. And Gavin is an expert with Facebook ads. He can teach you Facebook ads. He can jump in and consult with your Facebook ads. He can even take over your Facebook ads and do it for you. So we're gonna see what Gavin has to say about Facebook ads and what you need to know today for your business. So Gavin, glad to be talking to you.

Unknown Speaker 0:42 It's a pleasure to be here. Robert, thank you.

Robert Plank 0:45 Well, heck yeah, you're very welcome. So I mean, what's on your your mind these last few months here? What's your focus been?

Gavin Bell 0:52 It's been, it's been an interesting few three months for me, I guess do have a bit of context. So I've been running a Facebook ads agency for the last two to three years now, and that's always been my main focus. But one of the one of the things running the agency, I realized, as I was I was kind of getting some really cool experiences, things like going out to Facebook in the States, and obviously I'm from Scotland, so that, and also a lot of speaking and things happening. So I decided to start vlogging and documenting that journey. And last year, the vlog that I started basically exploded and was seen by over 2 million people or so last year. And so that started to take a massive focus now is actually the vlogging thing becoming almost on par with the business as a business in itself. So right now, my main focuses are on continuing to run the business, pushing the speaking, pushing the vlogging, and just having fun doing it all.

Robert Plank 1:55 Super cool. I love it. So you found something that made you money, and then you built it up a bunch, and then you had sort of something on the side, this kind of documenting, it, this vlogging, and then that, on its own, has begun to take on a life of its own. So it seems like everything you've been touching these days had just been exploding, has been blowing up. So when you say you've been vlogging, what does that mean? Exactly? Have you been doing, like a talking head, live action, talking to the camera. Thing Have you been doing, screen capture, showing campaigns, what has the content been as far as your vlogging?

Speaker 2 2:28 So my my first ever video was was, I was speaking to camera about how to grow your Twitter followers, and I posted that video and realized that it was actually terrible, like I was uncomfortable on camera. Everything about it was just really kind of awkward and bad, and so I decided to get better. I would do a 100 vlogs in 100 days challenge where I basically would pick up my phone every day for 100 days and talk about something that I found interesting, that day might be a meeting I had, or I thought I had just anything. And those 100 days kind of got me more comfortable. On camera, just being to camera, no editing or whatever. But I realized during those 100 days I wanted to do something better, something bigger. And so I decided that I was going to start a weekly vlog. And that weekly vlog, which would be kind of me taking a day of my week, the most interesting one, filming it and spending time to edit it and trying to make it really good. And then kind of I started to play around with getting more of my personality out there. So I started to film videos going out and about in hikes or traveling and whatever it be. And when I started to do that, then it really started to explore. So the vlogs now are predominantly actually about getting outside in Scotland and traveling Scotland and seeing all the amazing things that Scotland has to offer. So it's come a long way since being very entrepreneurial based. Yeah, that's

Robert Plank 3:53 really interesting that you've you found your voice, and I think that a lot of people out there, there's that tendency to to just do it every now and then. So what you're saying, What you did is you did 100 vlogs in 100 days. So that way you got the bugs worked out, so to speak. You got good at being on camera, at coming up with ideas, at putting things out. And then once, you did it every day for 100 days. And it seems like doing it once a week was just really easy at that point. And then you it seems like, from all the repetitions, then you were able to get really good at the editing and taking tons of footage and compressing it down. And then now it's moved kind of away from the entrepreneurial content and kind of into the into like, I guess, the the lifestyle and things like that. So when you say that you were going around Scotland and going outdoors. Is there any sort of entrepreneurial lessons left there, or is it just kind of here's what I'm doing?

Speaker 2 4:48 Yeah, it's really just here's what I'm doing, saying that though I still on platforms like LinkedIn and I have a Facebook group, those kind of smaller niche community. These that I've started to build are still entrepreneurial types of content. So if I'm honest, it's given me a bit of a sore head to be honest, because I almost started doing these vlogs as a way to humanize who I am. So yes, I'm a marketing guy, but here's what I like to get up to during the day, but it's kind of in terms of my personal brand. It's kind of overtaken and exploded to where majority of people probably now know me as the kind of outdoorsy Scottish guy, so it's given me a little bit of a sore head, but I still have kind of like my Facebook group and my my kind of LinkedIn and things where I do still blend in the entrepreneurial content and still talk about Facebook ads and how to how to get better at Facebook ads and all these different types of things. Great.

Robert Plank 5:44 So it sounds like you have such a process figured at this point that you have time to do both, where it like some other people might have been putting out the entrepreneurial videos and then made the lifestyle videos and said, Well, I don't necessarily have time for both, but you said, you know, you've got, I've got things streamlined now. I've got enough of a process figured out now where I can just do I can do both. I don't have to give up one to do the other

Speaker 2 6:09 100% like, for example, LinkedIn and my Facebook group. I just make it part of my day that I'll sit down for 10 minutes and I'll and I'll write something around Facebook ads or entrepreneurship, and that's just part of my day. Just 10 minutes of creative writing, and it does really well. I think it's I think a lot of people will over complicate the creation of their content and will make life hard for themselves by trying to make it perfect where, whereas I'm a big fan of just getting something out there, whether it's perfect or not, just creating something, uploading it. See how people react if it fails, okay, move on to the next piece of content. If it does well, then great. Yeah,

Robert Plank 6:47 I agree completely. It seems like the the process of that perfectionism, that kind of revising and editing and waiting till it's perfect, that seems really old fashioned nowadays, right to spend days and weeks on one little article until you're happy with it. Well, who cares how happy you are with it? It seems like the new way is to just get things out there, because there's there's so much content out there, there's so many other competitors putting things out there. Why drive yourself crazy with the perfectionism? Why not put things out there, and then, based on what people like, just create more of that. Right

Speaker 2 7:24 100% I'm a big fan of what I like to call embracing the messy. So yes, if you start video now, you're probably not going to be very good on camera if you maybe don't have the equipment. You're not spending hours editing a video or a blog or whatever, but you're kind of embracing that, and you're saying, no, actually, I would rather get a few grammatical errors, but at least, at least I'm getting something out there, and the person that gets the stuff out there is always going to do better than the person that spends so much time perfecting and editing things. As you say. It's just, it's just not the way the world works anymore. Nobody, nobody really cares if anything's perfect now. They just, they just want it there. And then,

Robert Plank 8:08 yeah, I agree about 1,000,000% and I mean, you look at, I mean, you look at the the news for an easy analogy, right? Even a few years ago, you might have cared about news from a week ago or last month, but nowadays there's just, like, who even cares about something six months or a year ago? What matters the most is now. So even if your videos sucked a couple of years ago, no one's going to going to be watching that. I mean, I think all the time when I go on YouTube and when I look for some sort of tutorial or instruction video, more often than not, I'm seeing a year put after the video title. So I'm looking for how to install WordPress. I'm seeing videos saying how to install WordPress 2018 how to install WordPress, 2019 because who cares about how to install WordPress way back in, 2016 right? Things change so much. We just want that up to date information. So, I mean, you cranked out all this different content from the like, entrepreneurial stuff and lifestyle stuff, is there? Is there one video that comes to mind that was really well received, like, just got, like, a ton of views or a ton of comments, anything like that? Come to mind?

Speaker 2 9:17 Yeah, there was one video last year for me that, well, there's three videos, actually last year that hit around 250 between 250 and 400,000 views on Facebook. And you know, I've tried my best to figure out why they went viral and what makes things go viral. And the only thing I can really, I can only take from it is you need your content to be shareable, so your your content is never going to go viral unless people share it. And the best way that I can describe that would be is ask yourself, would a stranger share this piece of content? Because if a stranger doesn't share it, then. It's not going to go viral. And I'll give you an example of that is when I when my videos were kind of entrepreneurial based, it was all well and good for friends and family, like, when I say entrepreneur, entrepreneurial based, it was all a day in the life of me, so the videos were really just about me, and that was good for friends and family. Like, you'd get maybe one or 2000 views, but never got anybody sharing it, and never getting kind of past that one or 2000 views. And I couldn't figure it out why, but it was because it was all about me. And if you think about it, why would somebody spend five minutes watching a stranger's day? They're just not interested. And so I started to create the content around Scotland, I started to get people that were interested in Scotland to watch my videos, because it's not about me, it's it was about Scotland. And that's when it really started to become shareable. And so these videos that I create, the ones that do really well, are the ones that people share, and that might be tagging their friends in it, if I've maybe gone to a really cool place that people want to go with, with their friends, or maybe it's just a really shareable piece of content. I mean, how to get people to share is still a dark art, but there's been a few videos last year that just went mental in terms of shares or people commenting, tagging their friends in it, and those are the ones that do the best.

Robert Plank 11:18 Okay, great. So So you're saying that you can't necessarily guarantee that a video will go viral or get shared, but you can definitely do a few things to stack the deck in your favor. So you're saying that you're looking to reach the widest audience possible. And if you're teaching something how to or tutorial or something entrepreneurial specific, then that's really going to limit yourself. And what you're looking for is to just show some cool stuff to show, you know, areas of Scotland where people from other places in the world have never seen anything like that. So that way someone will say, well, that's really cool. I'm gonna share that on my friends walls and tag my friends in it, because this is just an amazing video. In general,

Speaker 2 12:04 100% when it comes to Facebook, they say themselves that your content to perform well on the news feed has to be either entertaining or informative or both. So there's a good example of someone that gets the the kind of right mixture of that. It's a guy called Pete McKinnon, or Peter McKinnon, on YouTube, and he makes content around how to be a better videographer and lenses and cameras and things. But he also mixes in the kind of vlogging as well, and shows people how he's making his vlogs and that, that type of thing. So he's got a really, really good mix of kind of informative but entertaining content too. And I think he's been on YouTube, like maybe a year and a half or two years now, and he's got 2 million subscribers, so he's absolutely nailed it, but it's just, I think the How to videos and things still work. I think it's more of a case of just ask yourself, every time you're about to create a piece of content, would a stranger share this? Because if a stranger won't share it, then it won't go viral, it won't get huge reach.

Robert Plank 13:08 Okay, fair enough. And so when, when you're creating these videos, and, you know, getting a lot of views and things like that, do you find that maybe there's a little bit of catch 22 there in that? Well, you can get these videos to have a lot of reach, but then it seems I'm having difficulty understanding how that can then relate to building your list, getting them into a funnel, that sort of thing. So is that? Is that a factor at all? Like, are you concerned about monetizing this, this new traffic source that you have, or is it just for fun?

Speaker 2 13:41 Yes. So for me personally, the videos right now are kind of more for fun, or playing a bigger game in terms of maybe getting, like a presenting or releasing a book in the future, those types of ideas just building a brand, but with a lot of clients that we work with, and obviously getting revenue from their content creation efforts is a huge part, and that's kind of where the Facebook advertising bit comes into play, is that we can do things like retargeting people that have watched our videos so often. We'll create lots of really good content push out on Facebook and promote that content out to new audiences, and then we'll re target everybody that's watched that content to our to our offer, to try and get them to join our list, or start a free trial or download a lead magnet, for example. So from a from, from my point of view, the videos that I'm creating, because they're Scotland based and aren't anything to do with my my ad agency, I'm not trying to monetize them right now, but with with clients that we work with, then Facebook retargeting is by far one of the most powerful ways to do that. Okay,

Robert Plank 14:50 so can you unpack that a little bit? So you're saying that when you manage Facebook ads for clients, retargeting is a big part of it. It's not all. Let me just get an ad going and target some interest. Retargeting is a big part of what you do right

Speaker 2 15:07 100% probably one of the biggest so essentially, for those you that don't know, retargeting is essentially like if you've been to Amazon and you've looked at a pair of shoes or something, and then an ad has followed you around the website, around the internet, with a with the same product that that's retargeting. So if somebody comes to our website or watches a video on Facebook or engages with our page on Facebook, we can track them, and then we can serve a retargeting ad, just like Amazon, where we can we can say in the ad, essentially, hey, thanks for watching our videos. You might be interested in this an example of that with a client is I work with the Scott Devine from Scott's Bass Lessons, which is the world's largest bass guitar membership site. Now he creates a lot of video content teaching people how to play the bass. So bass guitar lessons, and we we upload those to Facebook, and people can watch them for free. Now we know if people are watching a lesson on how to play the bass guitar, they're interested in becoming a bass player, and therefore they're a good fit for our membership. So we retarget everybody that's watched our videos on Facebook and ask them if they want a 14 day free trial to the membership, and that works really, really well.

Robert Plank 16:24 Well, awesome. I mean, you make it sound so simple. So as far as this retargeting, I've heard people kind of go about it two different ways. Some people say, well, I'll just, you know, retarget anyone who watches the video. And then other people will do all these different layers. They'll say, I'll target someone who just watched a little bit of the video. I'll target them more aggressively if they watched all of it, if they then watch, you know, retargeting. Video number one, video number two, I'll keep going and I'll set up this whole thing. So I mean, would you say, Are you a simple, simple retargeting kind of person, or do you set up this whole crazy sequence. It

Speaker 2 17:03 really, much depends on the client. Really, if somebody has got a cheaper offer or a very simple offer or a really enticing offer, then typically you don't really, you don't need to set up the massive funnel. However, if somebody's got an offer that's really expensive and they don't really have a big audience so far, then sometimes we will have to create that longer sequence. Typically, the way I do it, though, is I'll start off with a small sequence, maybe just retargeting from one video to an offer and seeing how well that performs. And then we'll test kind of maybe adding another video to retarget, or we'll look at bringing out a free like a lead magnet or a video series, and just starting with as little steps as possible. But if we need to add in more, then we can do that. I'm a big fan of just keeping things really simple to start with, and if it's not working, then we can look at making a more complex funnel. I like

Robert Plank 18:01 that thought process, because if you set up, it sounds like if you set up some huge, crazy ad campaign and you set up this whole funnel, and then it doesn't work. You've done all this work, and you don't know where the problem is. So you're saying, set things up really simply, and then you add and tweak things, so that way you can feel it out as you go. And I don't know about you, but it seems like with Facebook ads these days, a lot of people seem to have their expectations wrong, right? Maybe they're too impatient, or they they think they don't really have to maintain the ads, or they don't want to spend a lot of money. So I mean, would you say that any of those things are a problem, or would you say that? It that there's some sort of a really common hang up where people are going wrong all over the place with Facebook ads?

Speaker 2 18:49 Yeah, 100% I think you're, you're, you're bang on the money in terms of people's expectations. I think the two biggest problems I see are people expecting the world from Facebook ads, expecting that just because they're spending money they deserve to see money back is probably the biggest expectational issue. The second issue, and arguably the biggest one, is that people think all they need to do is create a promotional post saying, Hey, I'm offering 20% off my whatever product or service, and then boost that out to people that don't know who they are. And that never works, because I kind of try and make similar similarities between that and going into the street and trying to sell somebody 20% off your product or service in the street they're not interested just because it's online or it's Facebook and you're spending money on advertising doesn't mean you deserve or will or should see any return on your advertising. So I think you're right in terms of expectations, are typically wrong, and also people expecting to just be able to put a promotional post on Facebook and see the flood gates open, because it just doesn't work like. And I wish it was that easy, but it certainly isn't, because we have to. We almost have to work harder online than we do offline, to build trust and to build that relationship and and so the retargeting thing, and creating retargeting ads allows us to to build that relationship with people online, and it's at the end of the day, actually has nothing to do with Facebook ads. It's all to do with human psychology and communication and relationship building is we take multiple touch points to get to know people, and we want to hear more from people before we ever take out our card and buy something from

Robert Plank 20:35 them. Fair enough. So what I'm hearing from you is that people are still people. Facebook is a new tool, a new way that we can reach these people. But it's not it's not like Facebook is a magic solution. We still have to kind of figure out what people want and target the right people in the right ways, and give them the the correct sort of ad there and so. So this whole topic of Facebook ads, what comes to mind for me right now is that I've taken some Facebook courses in the past and joined some of these masterminds. And what I found sort of frustrating is that it, it's it's either super vague or it's out of date, right? Because, I mean, as you've probably seen, Facebook changes all the time, right? Seems like almost every day they're changing their interface. So when I join a facebook course and I see like, do this exact thing, click this and do that, then it doesn't quite match up to what's there on Facebook. And then I've also joined the courses where they're really vague, and they just give you an overview, and they just kind of give you the concepts, and don't really give you the step by step. So I mean, do you have a solution to that? Is it a matter of, like, going into the strategy and then you can figure out whatever changes Facebook makes, or is it a matter of joining a course that just updates things constantly? Or how do we get over this sort of problem here, where it's either too specific and out of date or too vague?

Speaker 2 22:02 Yeah. I mean, I think it is a problem, and something that I faced, like even when I was trying to learn Facebook ads early in the day, and it's kind of one of the main reasons that people actually come to work with me is because, like, trying to keep up with Facebook is like a full time job in itself. So offloading that whole process to someone else is quite easy. And also, I have my own Facebook advertising course, which I update regularly whenever there's a big change and and so I know how hard it is to keep up to date with with the Facebook changes. Now my my opinion on this is actually that your kind of basic strategy on Facebook is, what are your goals, what con what content you're going to create, and who are you targeting with that content? So making sure that we know who exactly we're targeting, what sort of content we're giving them, and knowing what our goals are, that's your kind of basic strategy. And if you've got your strategy in place, things like bidding and all these kind of, really my minutia points are kind of irrelevant. They don't get me wrong, it's it's good to know them, and especially if you're working with a Facebook ads consultant, they should know these different things, but you're coming having complex bidding strategies won't make a difference if your basic strategy is broken. I People don't want the thing that you're giving them, and so I think it's important to understand the strategies and the tactics and things can kind of come second. But there's like, say the course that I built was kind of designed for that to have a course that was out there that was kind of constantly updated, because it is changing literally every single day.

Robert Plank 23:46 Okay, that makes sense. So you're saying, number one, know what those goals are, if you're looking to make sales or build a list or just get some extra reach, like with your lifestyle videos. Then number two, know what sort of content you're creating in order to get those goals. And number three, know who you're going after and you're targeting, and then the the actual details, or whatever, the latest cutting edge you know, stuff with Facebook that just kind of comes secondary to your goals, your content, and then your your targeting. So I mean that that makes total sense to me. And so if someone is looking to get their Facebook ads dialed in, and you have these three options. You have the the course, where people can learn it themselves. You have the consulting, and then you do it for them. So how does someone make that decision about which of those three options to pursue? Is it a budget thing? Is it a matter of like, already having some ads in place. How do they decide which of these three paths they should take with you?

Speaker 2 24:46 So typically, the way I would recommend it is, if somebody has a large budget of maybe 5k plus a month, then it might be worth looking at having someone doing it for you. If you're someone that is already spending so. Money on advertising and they're working, and you just want to make sure that you're making the most of them, then consulting is probably the best bet, the way, the way I typically package that up is just jumping on Skype for an hour with someone sharing the screen and running through all their ads and making sure everything's set up properly. And then my course is, probably, is, what is the most popular option for people right now, which is if, if you're kind of new to Facebook ads. In fact, I mean, I recommend everybody. I often get my clients that I manage their accounts for them to take my course, because it walks you through everything you need to know from the very start to all the way to, kind of creating your own funnels and and campaigns, and it's good for them to understand how to run Facebook ads as well, even though they never will, just so they can ask me the right questions and make sure that what I'm telling them that if I'm giving them metrics and things, they know they know what I'm talking about. So I would probably say, go to my website and have a look, which is Mr. Gavid.com but the, probably the most, the majority of people listening to this, the course, is going to be the best

Robert Plank 26:08 bet. Okay, great, fair enough. And I like how you explain that, that you know it might just be a matter of just being getting familiar with Facebook ads in general, and maybe getting these ads started so that way we can get to the point where they're working and they move up to the consulting or then move up to the done for you. But even if we're ready to just jump into the done for you option, if we have the budget for that, it still helps to know what's going on behind the scenes. So That way we're not completely blind to what's happening, and we can kind of know the language and know what you're doing. Like you said, even if we're not doing it ourselves, it can't hurt to just watch a few videos and and sort of see how it's done there.

Speaker 2 26:53 I mean, one of the I've jumped into so many advert advertising accounts where people have run it previously for clients, and the client has no idea of what's going on because they don't understand Facebook in the slightest. And even though they don't want to run them and probably don't really care about learning how to do it, it's always good to have a little understanding, just so you can ask the right questions and have better conversations and get to the point quicker with your consultant.

Robert Plank 27:18 Yeah, very logical. So great. So if someone's listening to us right now and they say, You know what, this is totally making sense, I'm ready to pull the trigger. I want to go and find out about what Gavin has going on. I want to find out about Facebook ads. I want to get dialed in the path for me, should they is Mr. Gavin bell.com just the place to go right now.

Speaker 2 27:38 That's the place to go. And if they want a free guide, they can go to Mr. Gavin bell.com forward slash blueprint.

Robert Plank 27:45 Okay, great. So Mr. Gavin bell.com forward slash blueprint, and what is that exactly?

Speaker 2 27:51 So it's a nine page document guide that basically walks people through a basic advertising funnel, creating content, retargeting people to a lead magnet and then nurturing them through your email sequence, and kind of walks you through the steps on how to create the content, how to create the ads. So yeah, a nine page free guide on how to do that.

Robert Plank 28:14 Fantastic. So exactly what you need to know, and then once you have that information, then you can be in creating it yourself, or contact Gavin to figure out next steps. And is, do you think, is there anything that we left out here as we're winding things down? Is there, like, just any, any missing piece of Facebook ads, or any kind of just lasting advice you'd want to give us about our ads?

Speaker 2 28:37 Yeah, I mean, one thing I say is, it's very hard to kind of cover the more technical things, like how to create a retargeting ad over a podcast. So the blueprint walks people through how to do that, and you can, you can learn how to do the technical side of things just by Googling or going on YouTube and finding those out. So if there's anyone that's confused by how retargeting goes on and how that actually works, and the best place to go is either that guide that I just spoke about, or just go on YouTube and Google it.

Robert Plank 29:07 Fantastic. YouTube universities, what they call it, right? It makes me think of maybe 1015, years ago, I needed to figure out how to film a video with the green screen, and instead of buying a product or reading articles, I searched on YouTube, and there was some eight year old kid with a real high pitched voice who was walking me through it, but that got the job done so that that's a really underrated resource. And I think everyone knows it's out there, but it's it's an easy thing to forget that YouTube's right there. If there's anything technical that you want to figure out, just do that search, and you can get yourself out of that at that quick jam, if you're stuck on a screen or don't know where to click or how to do something, to just do that really small step, YouTube's great for you. And then, of course, a real course, or going and checking out those blogs and those vlogs that you have at Mr. Gavin bell.com that's Mr. G A, V, I, N, B, E, L, l.com, that's great to get the those strategies, to get those daily refreshers. So everyone make sure to go to Mr. Gavin bell.com, forward slash blueprint, so that way you can get that nine page document, that way you can get started. That way you can get on his list and figure out what Gavin has going on these days when it comes to vlogging and having fun and creating those those cool Scotland videos and lifestyle stuff and his Facebook agency, that way you can stay up to date to what he's up to, plus what you need to know about getting these Facebook ads going in your business, because no one's just going to find your business on its own. You need to run these ads and put things out there so that way people have ways to find you. So Mr. Gavin bell.com/blueprint, is the place to be, and we'll see you there. And thanks so much, Gavin, for stopping by and setting us straight about what we need to know about Facebook ads. I appreciate it. Thanks

Unknown Speaker 30:59 for having me. It's been good fun.

Robert Plank 31:03 Please take a second to rate and subscribe to marketer of the day in the iTunes Store. It's free marketer of the day.com/itunes