865: Get into Growth Mode Using Automation with Kevin Snow

Unknown Speaker 0:00 a marketer of the Day episode 865 Get into growth mode using automation with Kevin snow.

Robert Plank 0:10 Welcome back to the marketer of the day podcast. We are here with Kevin snow. He is the co host of the top 100 Apple podcasts called growth mode. He is the CEO of time on target. Kevin is a sales expert. He's a technology geek. He knows Ontraport he knows outreach, he knows sales, and he can integrate digital technology with your sales project process in authentic, professional way. So we're gonna jump into that and talk about what all that means, Kevin, glad to be talking to you.

Speaker 2 0:42 Hey, thanks for me having me on the show. I'm excited to talk to another Ontraport nerd. So this is gonna be fun.

Robert Plank 0:48 Nice catch. Yeah, you booked the show. And then I had seen even just like earlier that day, you are in a Facebook group of us fellow Ontraport nerds. So So yeah, can you maybe like start off? And tell me about that? Like, why Ontraport? And what has you the most excited as far as like what it can do and what you can do for your clients?

Speaker 2 1:07 Well, I am gonna throw into a dark side name here, I actually started off with marketing automation stuff for my business with Infusionsoft. Because one of my friends who was doing marketing stuffs like, oh, we can do all this really cool things. And we can get you set up with some stuff. I'm like, This sounds really cool. I knew nothing about marketing automation at the time. So we got set up on Infusionsoft and I got in and I'm like, this is really complicated. I'll just have you do all this, because I don't want to touch this, this looks like. So she was doing a ton of stuff for me for a while. And then like a year later, she's like, okay, we're changing to this whole new system that I just found, I just went through certification for it. It's called Ontraport. It's way easier, like, okay, whatever, you just make the change. But then I started playing with a tuner like, this is really cool. And what the company I was working, I was working for it was my company. My company at the time was doing sales consulting, and we were going into businesses and helping them launch sales teams, or, like, I called for Tom rehabbing their sales team. And part of that was mapping out a sales process. And then I was because I wanted to be a good consultant. And it was like system agnostic, and wanted to do the best thing for my client, I would bring in outsiders to do automation, or to do video or to do whatever specialty thing. And one night I when I'm laying in bed, and literally I sat up in bed, I'm like, Oh, my God, I'm an idiot. And I just finally had this realization that I was throwing away all this revenue for my business, when I wasn't doing the automation piece, and I knew how to do Ontraport. So that was a bit my big foray into using Ontraport as a system from my all my clients. And now that's my business, we only focus on the sales process, and how we integrate tech. So there's a couple of CRMs, I use Ontraport is the only automation tool we use, unless someone just needs like, email. And they just want a newsletter of like super simple that doesn't need all the cool bells and whistles. But Ontraport does it all. And I love the fact my favorite thing about it for especially for working with sales teams, is that it allows you to inject human activity. So it's not just based on Oh, the prospect visited this page, or the prospect clicked the link or it's been so long since the prospect did something, it can now be Oh, the sales rep finally did something. And now we can progress the automation on. So we can add in those tasks and those things that the salespeople need to do during the sales process. So that the automation, the tech stays synched with what's actually happening in the sales cycle, which is a big thing that's missing for a lot of the other systems I looked at in the past.

Robert Plank 4:05 I agree. And I that's kind of what drew me to it also, because this is like supposed to be the era of big data, right? This is where Mark Zuckerberg knows 50,000 things about you. And if you you said there if you can kind of like combine, you have this database of customers, but you know that they maybe visited this page, but also that your sales reps have done things, you can pull up just all this information about them. And also what excited me as well about Ontraport there is like you said those human tasks where you can create this whole map this whole flowchart and then they wait at one point and you wait for a phone call or you wait for one of your employees to like send something on social media or send something on email and then continue on forward. And and yeah, it's pretty cool that it's It's finally the things are connected but they're also easy for us. And so you mentioned there about that that issue of Well, it's it's hard to get your head wrapped around your own business and the automation that you should be doing. But it's sometimes easy if you can see a client's business from the outside with fresh eyes. And maybe they know what, what they want. And I've just been thinking, the last couple of weeks about how sometimes like, it just takes so much mental work, just to get your brain wrapped around, like the whole system that you want to create. And then sometimes with creating like these Ontraport, automations, or like, you know, funnels or email sequences or whatever, so many times you set up all these things, and then like a year and a half later, you look at it, and you're like, we need to tear down and start from scratch. And so and that's just like, it's kind of discouraging, in a way, but also encouraging. So I mean, you experienced this as well of like, as soon as it's all perfect, and it's completed, it's almost like time to start all over again,

Speaker 2 5:48 all the time. So my business partner for my other company's success, champions networking, we we put in place a motto for our business, let's go break shit. And the whole idea behind that is all right, we're, we're going to follow up with ideas that sound really awesome, we're just going to go we're going to implement and hope it takes so we can learn from it and getting better and better and better. And that's really what is what I teach my, my clients for automations. You know, everyone, when they want to start doing marketing or sales automation, they have this really big grandiose idea of what they want their automations to do. And you know, there are hundreds of steps and all kinds of moving parts. And I'm always like, whoa, back off, slow down, take a deep breath. And let's do this little part. And let's get you using it. And then we'll add on and do this little party that you're using. Because then you can make little things. And it doesn't take me as long to say, oh, that didn't work, how we thought it was going to let's fix this, or allows us to then innovate based on what we see happening as people use the automation say, it would be really cool if we did this piece, and becomes much easier than to build those really huge in depth automations that were things that data is flying everywhere. And you literally have to look at a map to figure out where you have to go fix something, when you do it that way. And we do this all the time. You know, for success champions, we have probably 80 Different automations that are running on how we're doing stuff with our members. And then the chapters and how we started adding in the dynamic stuff. So there's all those moving pieces as well. But we'll we'll have, we'll always have this innovation that will come from a member really cool. Can we do it this way? But then we'll have to go back and say, All right, yeah, we can't win, I have to rebuild the whole damn thing, because it doesn't actually fit how I have it mapped out. But then I usually also find other stuff that I can fix and upgrade and tinker with and make it a whole new experience. So I think that's natural. And I think it's good for when you go back and look at stuff, say Oh, I need to redo this because I can do these things. Because you get better in business. We all need to be learning and being creative. And that looking back at the old stuff, saying I can do this way better now means that you've been creative, and you've been learning and you're not ready to take that next step forward. So yeah, it's a pain in the ass. When you have to do it and you're like crap, I have to figure out where this project is going in my in my timeline. But it's always good because it helps you take your company to that next level. If you never make those changes, you're gonna be stuck doing business the way you are now, two years from now. And the big the big thing that illustrate this for a lot of businesses and so fresh in their mind is March 2020 When the lockdowns all started, and we had all these businesses who were just oh, we, you know, we're face to face sales, you know, we don't need automations all sudden, we're like, Oh, crap, we need digital marketing. And they realized that they needed to innovate, and go where they should have been two or three years ago and caught up with everyone else. So that innovation and creativity is how you keep moving forward.

Robert Plank 9:01 And in your answer there, there's like, you've, you've kind of released like five different fears in my head. And one of those is, well, it's okay, it's good to kick up the dirt, right? And it's sometimes you think, okay, like, there's this thing I really know I need to be doing like having this this big, crazy automation funnel. And there is that that problem of sometimes just wasting two years just thinking about it not taking action, and saying I need to have 50 places in peace before I make my website, make my book, make my funnel. And so what you're saying is, instead of worrying about setting up all 50 pieces, and maybe like replicating your mistakes or making making it way too hard on yourself, just start this start with maybe four or five steps in the automation or just like a really bare bones basic version 1.0 proof of concept, and then you'll kind of gets at least you'll have something at least you'll get started. You'll be a little more familiar with the tool. You'll get excited when you see the result holds anyone once you kind of see it working, then you can take a break and then revisit it. And it's almost like the like the four seasons, right? There's like summer, fall and winter spring. And there's time to like plant your crops times a harvest your crops, and then time to kind of like just take a break and wait around and look back. And with fresh eyes and say all that automation I made a year ago, oh, I can't believe I made it so sloppily. I've learned so much since then. And you cringe. And that's the thing that you're supposed to do, right? You're supposed to cringe every time you look back at your work a year ago.

Speaker 2 10:33 Yeah, there's landing pages I created when I started building stuff in Ontraport. When I looked at him, I was like, Oh, what was I even thinking that is basically text on colored background. And now that you look at the stuff I'm building, you know, ad paid websites, or people in Ontraport. And people like that's an entrepreneur website. And like, yeah, like, I totally thought that was like some theme you bought, I'm like, No, that's all built into marketing, automation, and push to WordPress, like, I didn't know, you could do things like that. So it's been, it's from experience and publishing things. And then, you know, working with clients, that all have different opinions on how things should look and feel, and then learning from them and taking things you know, I really love this part of that plan. And I love this part of this client, and making a whole new thing because of that mashup between the two, that ends up looking really cool and being really functional. And it's just that experience thing, I'm going to really slaughter this quote. But wisdom comes from experience, and experience comes from bad choices. And that's usually how we learn these things, especially me, I'm a tech guy, I like to go in and just play and see what I can break. And then it's like, Oh, alright, now I gotta figure out how to fix it, which means I'm gonna learn even more, because I'm gonna have to dig into the system. And it's not just learning the stuff right on the top of how to do things. It's like, Alright, when when I screw it up, or one of my clients screws it up, what do I got to do, and you end up learning way more. So you know, making those bad choices sometimes isn't bad. As long as you're willing to learn from them. And you leave the other side, it's like, alright, well suck that it happened. But now I'm way here. And I'm way further ahead if I hadn't made that choice. So

Robert Plank 12:21 well, and it's almost like the like the street smarts of having some of these internet skills. Like there's the book smarts where, you know, the official documentation and you know what you should do? And you should click, but how many times? Have you seen an Ontraport account, or a WordPress site where something was broken, and the client didn't know exactly what to fix? And you said, Oh, let me go in there. And let me jump in there and click, click, and you're done. And you're not even sure exactly what you did just you've been around it so long, you can just feel your way around and be like, oh, yeah, it's, I know, the one or two things look for. And if it's not, then it's probably that and if not, that will just unplug it and plug it back in or guess and then there you go. 98% of the time problem solves,

Speaker 2 13:00 exactly. And it's all because you've been in the system. And you've probably made that mistake before. And it's somewhere in the recesses of your mind about what you did for that and you're like, able to access it. So but that's a key thing. And it's not, for my clients, when I tell them that, hey, pick an easy thing to start with that. So even so much about just being having a little thing that they can test and we can innovate on. A lot of times, it's just easier for them to start using. So one of the big four, you know, like CRMs, one of the big issues with CRM implementation and rollout is that salespeople don't actually use it, because it's such a huge change how they had been doing something, the rollout can take a long time for people to actually start implementing, and utilizing at the rates that most companies want. But when you're able to do it in, you know, in a phased manner, where you're going to implement this portion, and make it really simple for them to start utilizing it and doing it and seeing results, then it keeps them excited to do that next part. That's really the big thing for me when I'm working with clients, and we have these these grandiose visions of automations. It's like, Alright, what's the one thing we can do that's gonna give them some really easy wins and make them say, Oh, this is a really freaking cool, we can we build large stuff. And that's sort of what we'll do. First, we'll start off always are the stuff that gives us big wins faster, because that's gonna get them excited about what the technology can do, then it makes implementation for other stuff down the road way easier and simpler because I'm not trying to do so much at once that they don't understand how this stuff works. For you and me, we can go in and build that you know, 100 Step automation, and we can fit it in our minds and whip it out and we'll troubleshoot and say artists we get an automation but because they're using it, but for most people who are just entering this world that is that's a scary thought because they don't understand how the data flows and what's actually happening and and the words we use, so make those As little steps, make it really easy for them to use it and be excited about the tech and want to do more.

Robert Plank 15:06 And it seems like our whole conversation today is about like outsmarting the human factor. Because it's one thing to say, here's the software, here's this technology, but then you have to use all sorts of psychological tricks on yourself, to have the focus and the intention to learn this thing and build these things. And then there's a whole organization of people who they're used to doing everything in Infusionsoft or in Excel spreadsheets, or in Notepad or all the, all the messy things that you've seen, change is painful. And it's it's hard to, to kind of stop what you're doing and kind of work the brain and it's, it's hard to convince people to do that. And and you hear about this, sometimes of saying, well, it's one thing to, to bring in a new tool to roll it out in some organization. But there's, you almost have to have a plan a strategy to say, well, let's train people, let's get them using it a little bit, give them the easy wins, like they're talking about. So that way, you can just kind of get the emotional factor involved. So that way it actually six.

Speaker 2 16:08 Yeah, and that was a, that's a technique that I learned when I was actually selling cell phones on the b2b corporate level. So I was with Nextel, back when they launched in the late 90s, you know, the walkie talkie phones. And I learned really quickly that you know, that industry is becoming really commoditized at the time, so everyone was selling on price, who will give you a free phone, you know, if you buy today, you'll get this amount off. And I learned really quickly that if I actually want to be competitive and make money in that world, I need to find a different way to sell, I didn't want to sell like every other company out there. Next, I was really on the cutting edge of the data apps. So they were utilizing GPS to do driver tracking and to route tickets and all kinds of stuff, jobs and things to the drivers. So I was going into companies and I learned to ask tons of questions. And I figured out what was going on in their world and what their biggest issues were what was keeping them up at night. And then I was showing them well, what if we could do this? So I wasn't talking about the bells and whistles anymore, I was now talking about Alright, so what happens if we get rid of this thing? And you can now can, you know, have one or two extra jobs a day? What if we can do this thing? And your salespeople aren't driving 150 miles a day, every day? And what does that mean to your business and getting them thinking about options about how they can make their business better, and then saying, Alright, well, here's how we do it. And the same was true. That's how I sell digital marketing and automation. Now it's not, hey, look at all these really cool things we can build for you. And we can do this and it has these features. It's our understanding and helping them understand where their limitations are now, and then figuring out a really cool way to fix it. And helping them understand what impact that has. So then we're able to come in and say alright, well, here's how we're going to do it. Now I can start teaching the tech, and what's available with automations and CRM and Ontraport and everything, and then put solutions in place. So it's always about that with me with my clients. And I think that is for any type of, of sales where you're trying to make their company better. And it's not just as transactional thing, hey, buy my thing. And then I don't ever have to talk to you, again, understanding the solutions and asking those questions and having those conversations and was what really generates that really strong partnership where you're actually not working together, as opposed to you're just some vendor that's, you know, dropping off office supplies.

Robert Plank 18:33 I like that a lot. And what you're talking about is sales one on one or the way it should be right, where instead of instead of butting heads and saying, Well, you're doing it this way. And here's what I want you to do. And let me list out let me info dump all these things. You're saying, Well, wait a second, where are you stuck? Let me ask you some questions. Let me ask some deeper questions to figure out where the limitations are. And then let me work with you to kind of come up with a solution. And then the the features and all the bells and whistles come later. But it's like and it's like, it's even hard to like even even grasp because it requires some sorts of thinking, right? Like in some of your scenarios, I'm sure you're you're asking questions that they were not even have thought to ask you're coming with like a different approach, like you're saying there? Well, what if you could free up, you know, one or two employees? What if you could free up 100 hours a week all these things that maybe they have not thought in these terms? And it's kind of like it hurts your brain a little bit? Because it's like the the more you think about it, the less sense it makes, but But yeah, like your whole sell. I like this kind of selling principle. You're talking about asking questions instead of just trying to force these sorts of features on them. And so kind of having said that, do you see any kind of common threads common trends? Do you see these organizations that you deal with really missing the boat in a couple of areas where like, they shouldn't be using automation or they're falling behind? Or they're frustrated? Like where do you see the pain these days?

Speaker 2 20:00 So, for me, I work with a lot of these small and medium businesses that are in a growth phase. And they have that entrepreneur, business owner who's been doing all the sales, they've been bringing on ops guys, people to do the thing that they're selling, they're growing, they're having success. And now they're ready to try and figure out right, so how do I need to bring on salespeople now? Or is there a better way that I can sell so I can have more runway before I have to hire salespeople? Because I would be awesome to not have to drop, you know, $50,000 a year on salaries plus commission. So what and when we start asking, you know, they never none of these businesses have ever taken the time to actually document how they sell, or to look at. Alright, so how do my clients make buying decisions, you know, usually with entrepreneurs and business owners, they started their business because it was something they were really cool. That was they were really into or they were really good at, and they just went out they had the passion, which is makes it really easy to sell. And you're excited about what you have, because it's theirs, we never really paid attention to what their process was the we don't usually have to go in and they have CRM through Safari, we usually just use like the default sales process that's in it. And they tried to map what they do around how it works. Because you know, they didn't want to do a bunch of customization because that's hard and complicated, and they didn't have time. So that's really the first thing we do when we get with our clients is alright, let's talk about how you sell. And we make them walk us through in detail about what their process looks like and how they sell. And then we started asking questions about the clients, and how they're making decisions. And usually they don't know. And they aren't able to tell us what the clients what types of questions that clients are asking or what they want what's going through their head at the time. And so we'll usually end up bringing in some clients will start you know, bring them in, take them to lunch, we'll start asking them questions. And just really get feedback can almost do like these little case studies on how they made the decision to go with my company, and then use that to match up to all here's how you say you're selling and here's what they were, what they were saying they were looking for, do you see where there's some things that don't match up? They're like, yeah, definitely. And then we'll adjust and then we'll map out. Alright, so here's how we're going to tweak your process. Now let's look at how we add in the some automation to provide content and queuing to the prospects so that you don't have to do as much manual email and be searching for content to send out and we get them some help. And most likely close the sale faster. Now you can handle more clients and have more prospects in your pipeline, and you're gonna be selling more. So you really don't need that salesperson, you get to put off the headcount add for six months to a year, and just really focus on you know, how do we now automate and streamline your your operation to support bigger and more sales? So it's really that's what my clients are looking for. They're trying to go big, you know, everyone's like, Well, you gotta hire people. I don't want to hire people, they're expensive. How can we do things before we have to get to that point, and then really diving into what those processes are. And if they don't have them, that's really Alright, so we guys are documenting we make flowcharts we're gonna do arts and crafts for a day. And Nick, you really think about what happens in your business in a way that you haven't thought about it before.

Robert Plank 23:23 And it man this is huge, what you're talking about just the simple ideas simple but hard to do, of documenting of writing down what you're currently doing, what maybe mental shortcuts are you taking man, you're just kind of caught up in the day to day putting up a fires. And what you're talking about here is huge. Because if if you're just trying to put little band aids on the problem and saying, Well, maybe if I add this feature, I have the software, maybe that'll magically solve my problem. We know it'll, it'll just multiply your problems. But if you say instead, okay, I think I know what I want to do. But let me take a step back. And when we document and write down arts and crafts, as you said, make the flowcharts and just get a concrete idea picture of okay, I'm doing this, here's how it is now and then saying, well within, here's where I want to be, and what do I need to add or remove in order to get there, and maybe I have a couple of different like avenues I could take to get there, then it's actual thinking it's actual strategy instead of just flying by the seat of your pants. And so why do you think this is such a difficult thing to do? Why do you think more people haven't done it? Why do these organizations need you to jump in and and figure all this out?

Speaker 2 24:35 A lot of it is just the pace that a CEO or an entrepreneur is running heads. In the military, we call it your opera, your OP tempo, your operations, tempo, and it's how fast you have to maneuver and how much stuff you have going on in your world. As a business owner, we're all we have tons of things flying at us every day. And you know, you don't always have time to be able to take the thought that process deeper, a lot of times, it's like, Oh, this isn't working. Alright, we'll go do that. And that'll fix it. And then we can, you know, later we'll figure out how to make a long term solution. And you never get to the later part because there's always some new thing exploiting that you have to fix. And it stays that way. No, I own time on target, then I have partial ownership in a cyber firm. And then I also have the success champion stuff with Donnie. So there's all kinds of stuff going on all the time. And Donnie, and I literally had to make dedicated time for us to do these things on a regular basis, so that the company would keep moving forward, we just did a huge mastermind retreat for a bunch of our clients, coaching clients, the last few days in Fort Worth. And one of the things we made them do is mind map their business. None of them had ever looked at their business that way, and figured out all the activities and clean stuff. And all these separate things that they knew they were doing, and things that they knew they wanted, but they didn't know any of the relationships between those pieces. And then we made them work on lines of effort and what their focus is for the year we're being artists for our team they've struggled with wasn't coming up with a deck shit objectives for the year and activities that fit within those actually coming up with what their priorities were for all of those lines of effort. Oh, I want for one of them. It was marketing. Obviously, marketing shows up for a lot of one on one was, you know, I really wanted to do some branding, branding strategy work within the marketing piece, like awesome. Alright, so what's your priorities in developing your brand, and it was really like pulling teeth and helping them understand what those priorities were and how it was going to help them make decisions down the road, that those priorities actually allowed them to say no to things? Oh, if your priority is for your brand needs that has to be has to speak to a specific demographic. And when you ask about some tasks, some design work down the line or Well, does it help you accomplish this? And they say, Well, no. Then why are you doing it? Right? I can take that off my plate, like, yeah, totally. But the thing is, no one has time to make those big thoughts unless you set the time aside and say, Alright, this is when we're going to do it. Because they just do it very, especially if your business is growing and you're starting to see some success. You're very reactive. Like, oh, we got to do this. We got to make keep this client happy all got onboard this one, oh, I gotta pay bills. Gotta go see the accountant. And it's all running by the seat of your pants. Until at some point something breaks, you're like, Oh, I What do I do. So it takes that outside person to come in and say, Hey, here's what's happening. Deep breath, it's okay, we're going to help you. And then helping them actually put those processes together that make their life easier, and make things flow smoother, and actually gives them time back that they can do other stuff to now grow the business, or spend with their family or do whatnot, that has been important, missing from their life.

Robert Plank 28:03 Well, this is awesome. And it's a lot to think about. And you're delivering all sorts of simple reminders of things that we need to be doing, like carving out the time, even if you don't have the time, you need the time to do nothing. And to to think and strategize. And also not just by yourself, but but kind of have some kind of a mastermind going that way. It's not just one mind focusing on the problem. And then you mentioned having priorities because I mean, that's what time management is all about. Right? We can all say, Here's my big long to do list. And of course, I could fill my my days with 12 hour days. But until you say, here's where here's what my goal is, here's what my focus is. And if these actions I'm taking, are they getting me towards that focus? Or is it just noise, once you start making those tough decisions, then then now you have the time freed up and now you can think whereas this whole time, you've been kind of just going day to day and next thing you know, the whole day is busy, the whole weeks busy, the whole month is busy, and then you fall behind a little bit and then everything else falls behind. And it's only a matter of time before that happens. And you and I have both seen where the kind of like the meeting or planning regularly gets neglected because maybe maybe things are running smoothly. Or maybe things are just okay. And you neglect that important piece. And it doesn't happen instantly. But overall that that lag time months and months passed and then it just slowly goes downhill and and we don't want that. But what we do want to do is buy is to work smart, instead of hard to to strategize, to do these meetings to do these automations to figure out what are we doing now that's working and not working and take that inventory and take things to the next level and whatever whatever other corporate buzzwords you want to throw it into that so if someone is listening to our conversation today, and they said, Man, we covered all these cool topics. We got deep, we got philosophical, but we also got practical. What is the next step here? If someone wants to know about what actions they should take, if they want to find out about you and your agency and your podcast, go to a website, contact you, what should they be thinking and doing? What's the next step?

Speaker 2 30:11 Alright, so quickest way, if you want to get more information like this, do check out growth mode on Apple podcasts. This is what me and Donnie talk about every week and about 20 minutes, there's gonna be one little business development, business scaling, happening that we're going to target it's gonna be really in, what we do is we share all of our screw ups. And we've had some doozies. And then what we learned and how people can utilize that to grow their business and how they can not make the same mistakes. If you want to find out more about the, the automation stuff, and what I do with my clients, all they really need to do is text the words sell smarter, is 612-429-4298. And I'll actually send them a list of questions they can use to help map out their clients buying process, and a guide to what content is most effective for each step in the sales process. And then there'll be in my world, and then they'll be able to actually reach out and say, yep, I want to meet, I want to talk, can we do a virtual coffee on Zoom and be more than happy to chat with any of them?

Robert Plank 31:14 Fantastic, very logical. So we'll put that that phone number in the show notes. And in the meantime, growth mode on Apple podcasts. Time on target is Kevin's company. And that way you can jump in. And you can begin asking some of these questions. So as Kevin said, get into his world, because there's probably all kinds of questions that you don't even know you should be asking. But you start figuring out what that your goals are, what your focus is, and then you can begin kind of getting your head wrapped around. Okay, here's, here's where I've been missing out so far. Here's what I could be doing with my automation, if that makes sense. Here's how I could use technology to get me to where I want to go, instead of just throwing more employees or throwing more of my own time at the problem actually get things in place. So that way, it'll be kind of an automated selling machine. And then we can focus on what actually matters. So we'll repeat that one more time, text, sell smarter. 2612429 Oops, it disappeared, right? As I was saying, all right, sell smarter. 612-429-4298. We will put that in the podcast notes. And we will see you on the growth mode, podcast and time on target. And as we wrap up our conversation here, Kevin, do you have any final parting words of advice or something that we didn't have time to fit in and just want to squeeze in at the last second?

Speaker 2 32:37 Yeah, the one thing I tell all entrepreneurs, especially those that are getting started out is your number one job as a CEO, or a business owner is sales. You need to go sell especially if you're just starting out because that's what gives you proof of concept for your product. If you've been around a while, it's what keeps your company going. You know, you have to be the number one salesperson. That's how you learn processes. That's how you figure out what works and sets you up for success when you do add in salespeople down the road.

Robert Plank 33:11 Do you have Why podcast.com forward Slash Free? Go there right now to see what you could be missing in your podcast? Maybe you aren't active enough on social media? Are you writing and broadcasting an email for every episode of your podcast? Do you follow up with your podcast guests? Do you do things to make your podcast interview and content creation easier? Go to d f y podcast.com/free to claim your gift right now.