1375: The Marketing Experts: Boost Sales Page Conversions in 30 Minutes with Conversion Optimization Expert Trevor Levine

Robert Plank 0:01 Trevor Levine is the conversion expert who made millions for names like AWeber, ReMax and Frank Kern. Trevor is a direct response copywriter who guarantees to beat your conversion rate or you don't pay from scaling his own online health school to helping entrepreneurs double their revenue without spending more on ads. Trevor is here to share the science behind irresistible offers and unstoppable growth. Mr. Trevor, glad to meet you, glad to see you. Thanks for having me. Glad to be here, happy to have you. We're a couple of glad guys. And so introduce you with a good old chat GPT generated intro and hook. What? In your own words, what are you all about? What's your passion and focus?

Trevor Levine 0:46 I help people improve their conversion rates. You're doing a lot of things, spending a lot of time and money, probably to get traffic to a page right, whether you're doing organic, whether you're doing affiliates, whether you're doing paid advertising, they're all landing someplace, and when they get there, you want to convert as many of them as possible into paying customers or clients. That's what I help with.

Robert Plank 1:10 Very nice. It's a great mindset, and a lot of people don't think in terms of this way, or maybe they've heard this, but they've lost their way, right? But they found better distractions, better priorities, and it's time to come back and say, Hey, what is it all about? Get someone to sign up, get someone to buy I've got my web page. I've got people coming to it. Figure out that percentage. Now it just becomes a math problem, right? Then it becomes, well, how do I improve what's there? Or, how do I get more traffic? And when people come to you, do they know their conversion rate? Do they like have a number? Or do they say, I don't even know what it is. I'm not even sure how to measure

Trevor Levine 1:42 it depends on the client. You know, good clients well, I don't want to say that some clients have split, split testing software, right, and they're generating a lot of traffic so they can get accurate numbers on what's happening now and what happens with a rewrite that I provide. Some clients have no idea, so it really depends.

Robert Plank 2:02 Okay, well, fair enough. So depends where they're at, but we do know that there is room for improvement, right? There's things that we are like, and we've all been there, right? Someone critiques our sales page, or even it's, isn't it spooky how like, if you are like at a friend's house or at a coffee shop or something, and they open up your web page and nothing's different. It's it's instead of you looking at it, it's their friend and you like you see it differently, right? You it's just the fact of you're looking at it straight on, you're looking at it over their shoulder like you see it completely differently. Oh my gosh. I can't believe I didn't update the copyright date. I can't believe it, it loads five seconds. Is it a one second? Oh, that old banner, that little header. So we all, we're all messing up in little ways when it's okay because we noticed a problem, we fix it. And so what sort of common mistakes do you see? Say it's all about the conversion rate, and sometimes we're shooting ourselves in the foot. So how are we doing that? How do people mess up their conversion rates on their web pages?

Trevor Levine 3:00 Sure. Well, let me address what you said a moment ago. We're all messing up in little ways. You may not be messing up. You may have a profitable sales page. For example, Ken Varga, who is a GEICO Insurance agent, had a direct mail letter that was doing well, and it was written by a legendary copywriter, but he decided to give me a shot at beating it, and I outperformed it three to one. So it's not that he messed up. He had something that was working, but he but there is a lot of room for improvement. So as far as copy mistakes or copy improvements, there's, there's a bunch of things that we can do right away to to improve that. One is a lot of people over rely on adjectives. They'll say things like this. Is the most amazing, groundbreaking method, right, since blah, blah, blah, that sounds like bragging. And what I recommend is replacing adjectives with verbs. Okay, you want to start especially in the first few paragraphs or first portion of your sales page, you want to focus on benefits to the reader. That means verbs. Automate your sales process. Stop wasting your time on technical minutia. Spend more time with your family. See, every one of those starts with a verb, and it doesn't sound like bragging. It sounds like, oh, yeah, I want those things, that's one thing you can change right away. Another is especially in those first few paragraphs, or the first portion is avoid talking about yourself. So a lot of times when someone comes to me, it's all about I believe in holistic healing, and I have these three certifications, and I help clients these ways, right? And it's all about, well, I don't want to hear about you. That's not what's going to hook me. I want to know what's in it for me, if I'm the reader. So take out all the I and all the we, if you can, in the opening, and make sure you're focusing on you and your what. Is the benefit to the reader. If you have three certifications, for example, you might say you won't be wasting your money on, you know, incompetent practitioners, charating as experts. You'll get results within 30 days based on my track record, or I guarantee your money back. So these are ways to switch it around to the you orientation, instead of I and we. Those are a couple things I can share more. Yeah, and

Robert Plank 5:31 I need a moment to digest that, because I love exercises like that, right? Like when we all, I think those of us that have written a copy of one page, we've gone through that awakening, right? Like, I've seen that so many times. I'm sure you have to like, when you come across the Gary Halbert, the John Carlton, all like the classics, right? The Eugene Schwartz, all that good stuff, like the Claude Hopkins, right? You see those old timey sales letters, and you realize, like, Okay, this is what I should be like shooting for, in a sense, right? Like getting attention and big headlines and and sometimes centered and bold and red, like, it's kind of like fun, because it defies a lot of the boring term paper stuff that we had to learn in school. Didn't it like short sentences and get impact? And it's like, in school you're trying to make a page count, but on a web page, you're like, I'm trying to grab their attention just for a few precious seconds. And so like, you're giving me these flashbacks to, like, these fun just like, passes through the web page where someone's told me once, like, look for the word no, and it's okay to say no sometimes. But I he's like, just search it. And it was, like, hundreds of times on a long sales. I'm like, I can't believe it, like you're giving me this awareness. Or you said, like, go through and say, like, if you have a 10 word sentence, could you cross out like, one word or two words and have it say the same thing? Or like, passive versus active words. And so when you're saying some of these things, like, put the verbs in there. Or, like, you know, they say, like, add questions, or kind of do the bucket brigade. It's like, it's always fun about just these little exercises where you can, one, see where you're messing up, and to, like, figure out a better way. And better doesn't mean being more pretentious or winning those academic points in school. Better means converting better, right? Getting more attention. And so I love the kind of the verb tweak and you said you had more. So what else do you see that's kind of like, easily done, easily noticed, that you think bears paying attention to on our web pages, our sales pages,

Trevor Levine 7:34 sure. So you may be focusing on selling your process or your deliverables. Let's say you're a coach and you say, when you sign up, you'll get eight coaching sessions and membership in a private community. That's the deliverables, but that is not the result that the person wants. Think about it this way, when someone wakes up in the morning and thinks about their problems, maybe they have joint pain, maybe they have cash flow problems. Maybe they their relationship is on the rocks. Do they think to themselves, you know what? I need to sign up for an eight, eight session coaching program. You know? I need to buy an e book. I need to join a membership site. No, they don't think any of that. They are not thinking about buying the medium. They are thinking about solving their problem, and that's what they want. So instead of selling your deliverables right, which is how many videos or how many, you know, little books or whatever it might be that you're giving them, save that for the second half of your sales page, you want to start by in your headline and your opening, talking all about the results that they crave and the problem that they're living with and what it's going to cost them if they don't take action to solve that problem. So for example, let's say your relationship coach, who works with folks that have anxious attachment. Instead of saying, sign up for my coaching program and get eight sessions, you could say, be valued by people you love, not frustrated, disappointed or taken for granted, that would be selling the result.

Robert Plank 9:16 I like that, and it's once again, it's a it's a blind spot, right? Like people are doing it, they're not even realizing it. And by saying it's an eight module, course, it's about you, it's not about them. Like, who cares about and even if you say eight, like, someone says that to me, I'm like, that sounds like a lot. That makes me not want it. And it's like, seems like you're screwed either way, if you introduce that too early, right? If it's two, well, it's only two. That's not enough. If it's eight, like, I don't have time for that. And so I think you mentioned something that's really important, which is, like, the order of importance really matters, right? Like, a lot of these details, like, you think they're so important, eight modules will sure. But put that further down, because at the beginning, you're focused on getting their attention and solving their problem and making sure that. That you understand them and all those other things and all the the finer details. It's like, cool. Give that to me once, I'm kind of already emotionally sold on what you have to offer me. And so, so my understanding here is that so someone comes to you, and maybe they're, they're already saying some of these things on their landing page. They're mentioning i a lot in the beginning, and it needs to be you, there's things that can be changed. And so you go in and you you make some of these tweaks, these changes to improve the conversion rate.

Trevor Levine 10:29 Yeah, absolutely. I mean, some of it is copywriting, but a big part, and this is one of the things, a couple of things that AI won't help you with, is your offer creation. So it's one thing to just describe what you sell, your program, your product, your service, whatever it is. But if there's no offer, then there's no reason for people to act right now. They can read about it, and then they can say, I'll think about it. Maybe I'll come back. So one thing that I help with is offer creation. What is the offer that's going to get people to act now, that's going to create urgency. And there's a lot of ways you can create a good offer. You can obviously can have limited quantities, you can have a deadline, like when you have a Jeff Walker style launch. But here I made a little list here, so like so I don't forget any of them. You can have a training offer. You can have a special bonus package. You here's a good one that when I built a company that you mentioned in the intro, I built an online school called the vegetarian Health Institute to six figure months, and then I sold it, and we had a one year course where you could pay upfront, or you could just pay monthly. But you know, when people first got introduced to us, they didn't necessarily, I mean, some of them were willing to do that, but there were some that were like, Ah, I don't know if I want to commit to monthly fees for a year, right? Or commit to several $100 so what did we do? We took out one lesson, which was one that our audience really was very interested in, on omega threes, because those are hard to get if you're on a plant based diet, and we sold it by itself as a trip buyer for $7 and so the principle here is that if you take something out of a more expensive program. Maybe you have a $3,000 coaching program, but you take out the one thing that people love the most and offer it for $47 so one way to create an offer is to say, you know, for a limited time, we're doing a marketing test, and we're we're offering this, this gold nugget from our expensive coaching program for only $47 but you know, this isn't going to last forever. We're just trying it out to see if it makes sense, right in terms of the number of people that convert to high ticket clients. So that's another way to make an offer is to say, you know, normally you would have to pay hundreds or 1000s of dollars for this, but right now, for a limited time, we're gonna we're letting you have it for only, whatever it might be, you know, a fraction of the cost. Those are some ways that you can make an offer. Another I just helped a client who had an online Summit, who's been doing it for 14 years. And obviously, like any online Summit, people can sign up for free. But then as soon as they get to the thank you page, he says, Wait, wouldn't you like to have the recordings so that you don't have to, you know, listen to five interviews a day. You can get them for $67 so I said, Well, you know, that's a pretty good offer, and that's what all the summits offer. But why don't we make it better? What? What else can we add to add value to this offer so that the gap between free and paid is a bigger gap. It turned out that only 20% of the content from all their interviews was in the the free Summit, right? And the other 80% was not part of the free Summit. It got cut. So one thing that they could offer was giving people 100% of the interview content, that's the stuff that was in the free Summit, and the other 80% and then I said, Well, how about instead of just letting them be in a forum for eight days, you let them be in it for 60 days and have a private format forum just for the paying customers, so they went with it. And so that added value to the offer. You know, with the the people paying $67 knowing that they're not just getting the recordings right, they're also getting 60 days of support instead of just eight days,

Robert Plank 14:39 very cool. And so that makes perfect sense. There how it can we can use someone like you, who does it better than AI, because, like we said, AI does there's a few things pretty well, like the mechanics, but as far as that intuitiveness, right? The bigger picture thinking outside the box. You pick your metaphor, someone like you says, Hey, you look at. The offer, and you say, well, we can have this lead in product. We can figure out this upsell, we can play around with the positioning. We can figure out that the bonuses, the term offer, that's a lot more interesting than just a course or a product, isn't it? Because, like, it encompasses so much more. And there's this focus on like, Okay, well, like, what's branding? Well, branding is trust. So what's trust? Well, trust is being reliable and dependable. So someone gets this kind of small nugget, and they see what you're all about. And then we've all experienced that, that kind of excited buying feeling. So we buy that little thing and that now I want to buy some more. Now I want to buy that upsell, and it's and there's many possibilities here, right? When there's someone like you who has this fresh perspective, maybe someone, I mean, I imagine, like the average person, they can, like, it's no insult to them, but they can barely even get that checkout process set up, right? There's so much to figure out that the page, the button, the checkout, the getting their membership figured out. So they're like, I'm so exhausted. But now there's this guy, Mr. Mr. Trevor, who, like, can run circles around this and you say, Well, hey, I've seen and I've done some amazing, crazy things and and as along those lines, the checkout page, right the checkout page, it's this place where they see what the offer is. They click, they enter their credit card. But then, when this a bunch of years ago, when this technology started, where you can, like, follow someone around, or you can play around with, like, step one, step two, it's like, hey, there's so much that can be tweaked, improved. So as far as these checkout pages, like, what do you have to say there? What have you seen as far as people abandoning them? How can we make better use of our checkout pages?

Trevor Levine 16:43 Yeah, so most folks make the mistake of assuming that once someone clicks from the sales page to the checkout page, now they're convinced, and they're going to they're going to go ahead and buy, but they don't. What you want to do on your checkout page is reiterate all of the things that were most convincing. You want to restate your risk for risk reversal, or, in other words, your guarantee. You want to show again the package. If there are deliverables, let's say you know they're going to get in a community, and they're going to get a book and whatever else. You want to show an image of all the deliverables you want to also, what else do we need to put on there? Testimonials? The same, take your best testimonials from your sales page and also put them on your checkout page, because people are still waffling when they get there, and you need to, you know, remind them of all the most compelling reasons to take the next step. A two step checkout page is also totally worth testing, sometimes works better. But the main benefit is you capture their email on the first step, so if they don't complete the process, you can follow up by email.

Robert Plank 17:49 And I've been through that so many times. I'm sure you two have to Mr. Trevor where you go to something, maybe you click over on that checkout page, just to kind of see what happens. Right? I'm curious. I click back, but then I go to the checkout page, and I do this step one, step two, and I fill in my email, but then I've got tabs open, or I get distracted, or something else happens, and then I start getting the sequence, and it's just one of those, like, really good marketing best practices, right? You say, like, restate a lot of those, those elements of the sales letter in that condensed format. Keep the testimonials on there. Don't assume they're convinced to buy. But then there's all these fun things that can be implemented, like this two step checkout, they enter their email they didn't finish, and you can get them on a sequence and say, Hey, like, you got that far, why don't you go and finish your checkout and and get this course, get this offer that you wanted to go get. And so, like, we're kind of cracking this code here when it comes to human nature, and human nature is really fickle. But luckily, there's all these, like, trick sounds bad, but there's techniques aren't there in order to make sure that that we can improve that conversion rate. And so one of these things that's always fun with copywriting is this idea of urgency, and the lazy way is to say, oh, it expires at midnight, or throw a countdown clock, or there's 67 copies left. But what do you have to say about creating urgency without gimmicks?

Trevor Levine 19:11 Sure, yeah, so though, like you said, we could call those gimmicks if you want to do it using natural urgency, then talk to the person about the cost of continuing to live with their problem. Okay, so let's say their problem is joint pain, you know? So you explain that, you talk to them about their problem, you explain what you have to offer. And then you say, you know, if you don't move forward with the solution. How will you get rid of your joint pain? For how long are you going to continue not being able to garden and dance and play with play with your grandkids on the floor? How? For how long are you going to be confined in a chair watching your your grandkids play on the floor without you? So. So these are ways, you know, and might it get worse if it's our arthritis and they don't take some action, it could actually get worse. So these are some ways to have them visualize the cost of continuing to live with their problem if they don't take action. Now, because you mentioned AI earlier, I want to say something about about this. Let's say that your solution for Joint Pain is a particular healthy diet, but, and there's other solutions. There's pharmaceuticals, right? There's injections, well, you could go to AI and easily say, tell me why a healthy diet. What are the advantages of a healthy diet versus pharmaceuticals and injections for curing joint pain, and it will give you some good data that you can use in your sales page. So now you may be able to use that to convince people to choose a healthy diet rather than pharmaceutical pharmaceuticals or injections. But now, how do they know that your healthy diet is the best? Right? Why should they choose yours instead of all the other ones? This is where AI cannot help you, because it does not know your unique selling proposition. It does not know what makes yours better and different and more advantageous, or why the others are, you know, what are the comparatively right? What are the downsides of the other options, the other diets than yours? So this is where we really need to, and a lot of clients don't really, they haven't thought about the unique selling proposition. You know, I worked with one client who sells a plant fertilizer. But what makes it different than Miracle Grow? We had to, we had to talk about that for it to come out and for it to be in the sales page, because it wasn'tcool.

Robert Plank 21:53 That's powerful. Yeah, that that we that we sometimes need to tease out what the the argument is, and that unique selling proposition and the Ben Franklin technique, right? You say, Hey, here's, here's what you could do if you don't change, or here's what this other alternative is. And hey, here's my comparison. Make the the emotional argument, right? Make the case for what should change. And like you mentioned about the that idea of an urgency and what the future might be like. Like, you give me flashbacks to that. There was like, this commercial of like a non, like a stop smoking commercial. And like, there was like, a old man, a grandpa who was like, saying to a little kid, like, Hey, little kid, come and take your first steps. And then the grandpa turns into a ghost, and the baby just walks right through. And I'm like, it hits. It's like the most emotional thing I've ever seen is the grandpa looking at the grandkid taking the first steps, and the grandpa turns into a ghost. And I'm just like, Man, how can we replicate that, or duplicate that? And the answer is, with a guy like Trevor, you can have this back and forth conversation with get the raw materials, get the good stuff. And he says, aha, I practice copywriting so much that I can just say that's what we need to use. That's what we should improve, instead of chatgpt, which gives us like, bolded bullet points and all these lists, which is good starting point, but that's not exciting for us humans and so kind of moving down through this copywriting, these steps, guarantees, right? Guarantees. We've all heard of like, Oh, get your money back, but we all know we can get our money back right. We can charge back our card or ask for our money back. So as far as guarantees and going with what's tried and true, but also what's cutting edge and current, what do you have to say about guarantees improving our sales, and how can we perhaps create an instant boost by thinking through our guarantee.

Trevor Levine 23:41 Great. Okay, so a lot of clients do have a guarantee. They'll guarantee your money back, but it's buried down at the bottom of the sales page. What I like to do is, first of all, that's the bare minimum money back. Every Everyone offers at least that you're, you know, you're asking people to take a risk, and if it's their first time getting you know, learning about you from a paid ad or an affiliate, right? There's not already a trust there. They don't know you, like you and trust you already, and you're asking them to take a risk. So you've got to reverse the risk. You have to make it better than just get your money back. So here's some ways to do that. One is to use a promise timeframe and risk reversal, a guarantee and a promise are interrelated. So for example, you might say, return to your natural body weight in 60 days. Or everything you've downloaded is yours free, right? And in that case, maybe there's some videos and then some download PDFs. And if they, if they were to right, ask for a refund. At the end of 60 days, you cut off the videos, but they still get to keep the PDFs that they downloaded. Another that I recommended to the plant fertilizer client was if, if your plants don't grow bigger and faster than ever. Four just send back the empty container for a full refund, so the person gets to use the product, right? And they don't actually even need to return the fertilizer, but they can still get a refund. You can also invite people to take the first step risk free. So let's say you have a coaching program. You can offer that if for any reason, they're not thrilled by the end of the first session, all they have to do is tell you they get a full money back. They get a full they get a full refund. Or if you're doing a conference, let's say it's a three day conference. If they're not thrilled, if you're not thrilled by lunch on the first day, just see my my assistant in the back and you'll get a full refund, and will even pay for your flight home. Now, some people say, I've heard this objection. Well, wait a minute, I don't want to pay for the flight home, right? What? I don't want to offer double your money back, because what happens if, if I actually have to pay that? Okay? So here's two ways to protect yourself. One is, you make the guarantee you have an unconditional part and a conditional part. Unconditional means, if you're if you're not satisfied for any reason, no problem. You get your money back. And if you send us your completed homework, showing us that you gave the program a fair shot and you didn't get, you didn't lose, you didn't return to your natural body weight in 60 days, we'll give you double your money back. How many people are going to send you copies of all their homework? Right? Nobody. So this is a way to to protect yourself. But what's great about having the bolder conditional guarantee is that if you run paid ads or if you have affiliates, they don't have to mention the condition. Your paid ads can say, you know you're guaranteed to return to your natural body weight in 60 days or double your money back. And they don't have to know until they get to the sales letter that there's a condition on that right, which is a fair condition. It's not unreasonable, but this helps you get more people coming to your sales letter, where you have a lot more establishing the value and convincing them why they should, why they should move forward.

Robert Plank 27:08 Very cool. And just that tip alone, the conditional guarantee, just that alone, is worth this this podcast, right? If you get nothing else on this podcast, that's some really powerful copywriting and marketing wordage and and you're giving me Gary Halbert flashbacks here, Mr. Trevor, because, like, you're so right that by having the conditional guarantee, you say you double your money back, or we'll get we'll pay your flight home. It's a lot of fun. And then it's when you think about that person that refunds. I mean, usually, I mean, correct me if I'm wrong here. But usually the person that refunds these didn't have time for it, right? They they bought the fertilizer, they got the course. They just, they never logged in, they didn't use it. So it's like saying that someone will show their do their homework, and they'll prove that they they tried it didn't work. That's like, it's so rare, right? It's like, point, oh, 1% of a person that actually would do it. So it's like, the the hesitation is understandable, but in reality, like, if someone did the homework, then they probably get the results. So it cancels out, in a way, doesn't it?

Trevor Levine 28:08 Yeah, another way, let's say you have an eight week program, is you say all you have to do to get your money back at the end is submit your homework by midnight every Monday for eight consecutive weeks, right? And show up for all your sessions without rescheduling. You know most people are not going to follow through with submitting the homework on time every week for eight consecutive weeks. So you know it allows you to offer a crazy, bold guarantee that makes them feel safe to read more and perhaps, you know, book a call with you or whatever it might be, or come to your webinar, read your sales page, but you're still protected.

Robert Plank 28:46 Yeah, and it's just it makes it really, makes you think, right? Because it's so tempting to keep things boring and talk about PDFs, talking about videos, but you're saying, hey, like you've got a real problem. You've been sucking all these ways. You're so frustrated, you got this pain. I want to help you. And I'm not just here just to shove some videos on you, like I'm here for the the homework and the sessions, and we can get on a call, and I really want to solve your problem. It it's a lot more human and a lot more interesting, and and there's all these things we've been discussing where maybe, maybe we haven't even realized that we've been, like, messing up in small ways, or that things can be improved. And this whole idea of revealing the price, that's always fun, because, like, we've both been around doing this stuff for a while, right? Mr. Trevor, and like, I remember, like, so many decades ago, like Mark Joyner said, hey, put your price on the sales page. And up until then, I just said, Hey, click here and buy. And then when they went to the checkout page, then they saw their price, and he was like, no, because they're going to click and they're gonna come back, and it's all just like a confused mind never buys sort of stuff. And then I had a mentor, Armen Morin, who said, like, if they're scrolling down a web page and you have the buy button, like, halfway down, or part way down, then drop them down to the order box, that way, they can kind of see the whole thing and they can proceed. So there's little, like, little touch. Write little nuances, but that's just my opinion. You're the star of the show. What's your opinion on revealing the price and a link into that checkout page? What's the proper way to do it?

Trevor Levine 30:10 Well, you might remember when video sales letters became really popular. This is where you have a sales letter, where you only see one sentence at a time on the screen, and there's a voice reading to you exactly what you're reading on the screen. Yeah. Why did they do that? Why does that become so popular? Because it prevents the viewer from being able to scroll down and see the price right away. Right? It forces the viewer to go through the whole sales process before or the whole pitch, you could say right before the price is revealed. Now, if you if what you have is $17 you don't need to do this. You could put a button right on near the top of the sales page, but if it's 3000 or even maybe 500 you don't want people scrolling down, or you don't want people to see the price right away. Now, if you're not doing a video sales letter, and you're back to a traditional sales page, which is also, you know, a fine way to convert people. Then the key is just don't put a link to your checkout page too early. I would wait until at least halfway down the page when you feel that you have done enough to exacerbate their pains and problems explain why your solution is uniquely qualified to solve their problems, right? Shown some testimonials. Shown the guarantee you don't want anybody to be able to click, or you don't want to welcome them or encourage them to click to the checkout page until you've covered all those bases.

Robert Plank 31:39 Fair enough. And you know, I think that we're getting a little bit of a theme in our conversation is just like, think about that order that you're presenting things, and don't do it too early, because, like, I mean, I'm sure you've seen, like, people that have the buy button before they've introduced the product, like, hey, at least, like, walk them through the process, because otherwise it's just a jumbled mess. And so we're getting near the end of our kind of, our little copywriting master classes has turned into, which is great, like I'm I'm getting so many ideas this mix of nostalgia, plus things I want to go and do to my existing web pages. But testimonials, right? There's so many ways to go wrong, too long, too short, saying the wrong thing. And so if someone says, Well, I've got these testimonials on my landing page. Why aren't they doing the trick? What's the problem with testimonials these days?

Trevor Levine 32:24 Well, I mean, the biggest problem is that you don't specify. They don't talk about specific results that are compelling. A lot of times they'll say, this is a great product, or, you know, you know? So Trevor is a really excellent copywriter, and he met our deadline. That's not very that's not very compelling. The testimonials that I put on my site are all the ones about results, right? Trevor increased our conversion rate by 22% or Trevor outperformed the sales sales letter I had by three to one. Those are the kind of testimonials that you want, whether you're in the whether you're helping people make money or with health or with relationships or whatever it might be. Now let's say somebody you know sends you an email or post a review, whatever you know, with a So, so testimonial, just saying, you know you're a great coach or your product arrived on time, and you know, it seemed like it was made from quality ingredients. That's not a great testimonial. If you have the direct contact info or the email, reach out to them, ask them if they'd be willing to jump on a call or video chat with you so you can ask them some questions about the results that they got. And then, and this is, I've done this a lot with my my own company, and with clients, you take the answers to their questions, edit it down into a, you know, a testimonial that gives you a lot of bang for your buck, and then share it back with that person for their approval, or invite them if they want to edit it, most people just approve it, but if they, you know, want to edit something. They're welcome to do that right, and now you've got a testimonial that is going to be much more compelling. People don't always volunteer the results, so you've got to ask them questions to draw, to draw out that information and put it in their testimonial. Other things are, you know, just having a first name and no photo. I mean, it's best if you can have a headshot and a full name. Even better, if you can add a city and state, or, let's say you're selling to entrepreneurs, what might matter more than a city and state is the person's title and their website or company. Let's see if there's anything else about testimonials. Oh, of course, video testimonials are the best because they're the most believable. And if you can take screenshots of reviews from independent sites, whether it's Yelp or Trustpilot or your Facebook page, and put those on those also have a lot of credibility, because people can see that's a real person and that wasn't something that doesn't look like something that you solicit. To do. And it certainly can't be something that you fabricated, right? Because it's on Trustpilot, or it's on Yelp, same with a video testimonial, very believable,

Robert Plank 35:11 very cool. And so we've all seen these things, but maybe we didn't notice all of it, right? We noticed that there is testimonials, and we're just like, okay, cool testimonial. I'll replicate that. And you're saying, well, those testimonials you saw, they went and they kind of went back and followed up into this interview process and and got the results. Instead of just saying, hey, it's great, they said, Hey, what did you get out of it? Cleaned it up, gave it back to them, got it approved, and then they got this way better, effective testimonial, or captured the screenshot of the third party review sites. And maybe we saw that, but we didn't really register the like, hey, it's not just any old testimonial. They went to the trust pilot and they went and grabbed it. So there's that adds more of the the proof and the trust. And so just this whole conversation, you've just been pointing out these things that maybe we've seen and it's subconsciously registered, we've only maybe digested like 60% of what's important, right, when it comes to that, that debt, copy, the bucket brigade, the getting people to read the pricing, there's just all these little finer details that, if you go when you fix up this and that, imagine how the conversion rate can increase. Now it makes a lot more sense how someone like you can increase that conversion rate just by applying these best practices, removing the bottlenecks, and just kind of making making it a better experience for that buyer. And so what are some next steps here? If someone says, okay, Trevor has given me so many ideas, but now, if I were to go to apply these myself, then I'd have a big old to do list. I'm not sure if I could apply it properly. And even if I did, I'm not sure I'd have the confidence, because so many times we're like that conditional guarantee I need to see someone else do it, or I'm not sure if I want to take the risk. But someone like Trevor says, Hey, I've done this 37,000 times. Like, just, just, trust me, just try this out for 30 days in a way like he can apply copywriting on you to have the confidence for you to have your own copywriting. So as far as someone getting in touch some next steps and taking the like more actions compared to just getting a taste on a podcast, what should someone do now? What's the good old call to action?

Trevor Levine 37:17 Well, you can come to my website, marketing experts.com and request a free critique, and that way you can see where your sales copy can be improved if we end up working together, which is totally up to you, then I can help with offer creation. I can help with improving your risk reversal and your guarantee. I can help you manifest better testimonials by either giving you the right questions to ask your customers, or I can do it myself. And so there's all kinds of ways, you know, that we can work together. I don't just do sales pages. I do sales video, video, sales letters. I do email campaigns. That's one way that I helped a Weber. So but the first step is just come and get a free critique. There's no obligation. If you want to take what you learn and just run with it on your on your own, that's fine.

Robert Plank 38:08 I like it. I love the micro commitment and that that seems to be out of all the possible ways to do it. It's like, Hey, I'm just, I'm being generous. I'm teaching you some stuff. If you want to pick it up and use it like great, more power to you. But if you know that you'll get stuck, or if you applied tips number one and two, but you say, hey, you know, I really need help on getting that checkout page figured out. How do you do the the two step in, steps three and onwards? And maybe you say, Trevor gave me some stuff that really helped me. But as far as getting to that next level, getting something consistent, having your real business in place. So hey, nothing beats having a real person, and especially getting that free critique and consultation by going to marketing experts.com where you can turn more of your visitors into customers and clients without spending more on ads. They beat your conversion rate in a split test, or you don't pay and as server said, He improved a Weber's email marketing campaign. He's worked with re Max, Cigna, our E mentor, my points, and so many more. And AI is okay, but it shines in some areas and fails in others. And it's just like any any tool, right? You could have a a Ferrari, but if you don't know how to drive, you crash the Ferrari. If you have like Mario Andretti you're a race car driver, you can really make that thing spin. So no matter what tools you have in the toolbox, right? AI, your CRM, your email autoresponder, your landing page, software, the beautiful WordPress theme, whatever it is, your your merchant account, your checkout process, all these tools, well, you need to have someone on your side to help apply it in the proper, correct way, and that is marketing experts.com and Mr. Trevor Levine. But before I let you go, Mr. Trevor, it's time for the scary part of the show where I try to stump you. I try to put you on the spot by asking about a fun quote or lesson that has served you in life or in business. So what comes to mind to help us? Out as far as a fun quote or lesson,

Trevor Levine 40:03 I believe strongly in delegation. Obviously, when I founded my own company and scaled it, I could not do everything myself, and I didn't want to do everything myself. There's a lot of technical minutia I dislike so things, let's say your time is worth I don't know, 200 an hour, 100 an hour, but you can hire an assistant for 20 an hour. Why are you doing tasks that you could have delegated for 20 or 25 an hour? That is that is going to keep you from growing so my my advice is to delegate as much as you can for things that you can hire out for you to someone that charges a lot less than your time is worth. And by the same token, when it comes to expensive things, like, you know, drawing drawing up a contract, don't try to do that yourself. Hire a lawyer. When it comes to improving your sales page, right? If you try to do it yourself, I mean, you might get some luck. But why not? It's just like hiring a lawyer, right? Or just like going to a surgeon, it's an expertise. So that's another thing that I believe in delegating.

Robert Plank 41:09 Yeah, would you do your own surgery? Or would you do your own dentistry? Well, hopefully not. And your advice, it's definitely rooted in logic, but not in ego. So we have to definitely let go of some of our our inflated ego, and say, Oh, well, I I can do it all myself. And someone like Trevor says, Well, hey, there's, there's a, there's definitely a zone of expertise in your business, but there's lots of other stuff that there's that the higher level, right, where it might cost you more, but they perform that skill on the lower level, where it might be only like 80% as good as you can do it, but hey, answering those emails or the customer service or kind of those monotonous tasks that someone else can still do and is it's what you pay is cheaper than what your hourly rate is. Man, that's definitely the secret to business and getting ahead, creating something that's scalable, creating a business you can sell living life on your terms, all those things that we wanted to do, but then we let that gosh darn ego get in the way, and it's time to let go of that. And the first step is to have Mr. Trevor help you out with this free critique and consultation that's marketing experts.com go there, click the button where it says freak critique slash consult, and have this conversation with Mr. Trevor about how you can perhaps double your revenues without spending more on ads. And he's already given we could probably run it through chat GPT make a checklist of like 73 different things that you can look for and change and test on your webpage. There's always so much more to do. So get this fresh perspective. Get someone like Mr. Trevor Levine from marketing experts.com to help you out. Go ahead, do it right now. Go to that page, click that button, get that free consultation. You'll be glad you did. You have so much fun. You'll be so amazed at the results you get. And thank you, Mr. Trevor, for stopping by being generous. We did like a like a double link session, but it was okay, because we both geeked out about all the John E Kennedy and Gary Halbert stuff. And really appreciate you being here. And thanks for that.

Trevor Levine 43:06 Absolutely.