1509: Penji: Transform Your Creative Team with AI and Outsourcing with Jonathan Grzybowski

Robert Plank 0:01 Jonathan Grzybowski is here. He is a return guest. It's been so many years, and he is the CMO and co founder of pengy.co that's P, E, N, j, i.co they are a creative subscription service revolutionizing how businesses access top tier creative talent. Jonathan's a storyteller, content creator. He hosts dear dads, which is a heartfelt platform for fathers to share their journeys. And he also puts out free ideas where there are actionable strategies to elevate your business daily. So Mr. Jonathan, how the heck have you been

Jonathan Grzybowski 0:40 you know, not a lot has changed in five plus years, eight years that we had, that we chatted, I was trying to figure out, like, when the last time nothing has changed at all? You know, we're the exact same. Technology has never adapted and nor increased. You know, all as well,

Robert Plank 0:57 right, right. Canva hasn't become and gone and been thing and AI and, yeah, I mean, even just the last couple of days, like, I iterate through book covers, right? I say, like, Hey, I've got this whole like, book or this whole book chapter. I just feed it through AI and I see, like, here are some colors, more of this, less of that. It's like, it's an amazing world, right? It's like, Star Trek compared to even a few years ago, it's like you had to figure out Adobe Photoshop and layers, and you had to have these skills. And like a lot of what can be accomplished can be just, there's still other skills, but it seems to be like, more accessible, right? You don't have to go to school for something. You can just kind of play around and and figure out what your own workflow. But as far as what's what's got you excited and passionate. I know we kind of joked a little bit there, but what is new with you? What's on the cutting edge for you?

Jonathan Grzybowski 1:46 Yeah, I mean, I think the last time we chat, the person that you were talking to, or at least the business model, was like so much different than what it actually is today. And you would expect that right after multiple years. But I remember talking to you about, like, Amazon merch, which is good, right? Like it still can be a viable business, but I think that those are the best people to use AI, because your margins are relatively slim, and your business model as a whole needs to kind of grow. So use AI. I don't even think like pending doesn't even service those people anymore. In addition to that, from a business standpoint, you know, we're currently in 81 different countries across the world. We have multiple amazing contracts with with we're now venturing into the world of internal team management for creatives. And what we've noticed from a customer standpoint is that our customers use Pengy, but they don't want to think anymore. They want to just have something done for them. They want Pengy to be the brains and the execution, and they supplement wherever necessary. With ai, ai has dramatically changed the game. So if you were to say to me, what's new, it just be, from a personal standpoint, it's a different question, different answer. But from a business standpoint, everything has changed, and everything is also the same at the same time,

Unknown Speaker 3:15 right? So just

Robert Plank 3:17 all this controlled chaos to navigate, and you're giving me flashbacks a little bit, right? Because when we when we spoke, you're like, there was a lot of cranking out the T shirts, right? And there's the t shirt craze. Was like, Okay, well, find a popular football team and look up all the players on the team and just crank out all the jerseys. They're all the silly phrases. And it's like, if, if the NFL comes after me for copyright infringement, then I'll just shut that down and generate some more stuff. And it seemed like a really weird fad that was happening at that time. And then now, with a lot of E commerce, you hear about someone says, Well, they've got the, like, a product for sale, and they need, like, you know, 17 photos of it in action, different things, and it's all just AI generated. I go, when I look and I can, I can tell it's like, kind of three rendered, but it's so crisp and clear, I don't care. That's just how things are done now. And so as far as the people that use henji, like, what are the verticals, the categories? Who are the people using it lately?

Jonathan Grzybowski 4:19 Yeah, I would say for the most part, it's still digital marketing agencies, people who don't want to do a lot of the work themselves, and

Jonathan Grzybowski 4:27 then internal people that that

Jonathan Grzybowski 4:31 have a marketing brain, but don't necessarily know how to do the technical aspects,

Unknown Speaker 4:38 I would say, like

Jonathan Grzybowski 4:41 the problem that we solve as a business is, if you don't want to do it yourself, then you hire somebody to do it for you. And I think that problem will forever exist no matter what AI comes in. You could def, you could technically get a Roomba, and you can have somebody clean. Your entire house, right? Doesn't mean you're actually going to do it, because it may not necessarily do it the way that you want you but, but like, a cleaning service is going to be able to make sure they get through every little detail, right? And I think that's really where like, we're shifting as an organization, and we're shifting as like as a world, is that like, Sure, there are things to automate. Like, for example, you said 17 teachers can be scaled within, like, basically two minutes. Not even that's cool. You know that. Do that, right? Do that, if it makes sense for you. But if you need something a little bit more collaborative, if you want more people in your business that you could speak to and act as your own, because you're working in your own little silo, in a cubicle in a corner. Well, guess what? Benji is a great a great resource for you, and it's a great service to that will be able to help you your business out. So I would just say that, like, whatever it is that you need to do in your life, reassess, like, Can this be outsourced? Can this be automated via AI? If so cool, if you need a little bit more than that, then that's cool, too, and find another service. It doesn't have to be energy. Specifically, I think this applies. This logic applies no matter what industry you're in, what vertical and what you do. You could even take it for a father, for being a dad and trying to hire a nanny or go to a daycare, right? Like all of these things can be true and can work. It's just what, what does best for you and your business, or just person?

Unknown Speaker 6:27 Yeah, it's worth

Robert Plank 6:29 asking these questions and examining. What bucket does it sort into, right? Is this something that maybe? Am I not doing it? Am I doing it myself? Am I having the AI do it, or am I delegating it out to someone else. And I'm really curious about maybe some company that's taken this leap or made this transformation. Is there any company that comes to mind that maybe they started using pending and it just changed everything for them?

Unknown Speaker 6:57 Yeah, so I would say

Jonathan Grzybowski 7:02 I have to like, I'm trying to think like the NDA aspect of it, and I'll say this, think of a printing company, if you think of like an industry printing company, not like a consumer printing company, but like an industry led printing company. If whoever that is comes to mind is most likely our customer. With that said, they have product images that need to be rendered and scaled in order to be placed inside of Amazon Target, Walmart website, etc, etc. One guy in particular has a the head ahead of the department, has a team with under with under them. They primarily use freelance talent. They also have internal people. They don't want the internal aspects. The internal team working on this level of run work, right. Outsource. It higher, penalty, then there's one of the most famous semiconductor organizations in the entire world, literally, world, not exaggerating, they need a little bit more collaborative aspects, right? So when I say collaborative, they need a little bit more, you know, conversation, I guess, strategy, whatever it may be pending, is able to solve that. We have a team of what are called art art directors, where they're going to strategize and talk to you, basically from conception idea to submitting the project for you, to making sure the project's complete by your favorite designers, and then delivering it to you in under 24 hours. That to me if I would pay for that, because I got as a very busy human in all aspects of life, you probably don't want to do a lot of the thinking. You just want to say like you want to focus on strategy and direction, but you don't want to do the actual work in the execution. So then, if you can financially afford it, whatever way that you can do, do that and get rid of it. So then that way you can focus on your business. This applies for anyone that's listening. It could be a small marketer of one. You're making maybe a couple $1,000 and you're thinking about quitting your your full time job because you want to go do this full time. You want to do this entrepreneurship stuff full time. Or it could be an individual that's making 200 plus $1,000 a year and they work for a large organization, like, nobody wants to do work right. Like, if you could spend five more minutes with your child or with your family, you

Jonathan Grzybowski 9:37 probably would do it right. Right? Can't get that five minutes back, of course.

Jonathan Grzybowski 9:42 Yeah, I know I would like my daughter's upstairs. And, you know, obviously I'm talking to an incredible person like yourself, but like, respectfully, I'd rather play for my daughter, but I also would rather make money and make sure that the company is doing well, and,

Unknown Speaker 9:57 etc, etc, yeah.

Robert Plank 9:59 And so. You're like, well, I've got my priorities, but I'm not wasting the time. And you're saying that someone needs to think and work, right? You put out the graphics and the you know, any of us have used AI, know we have to go again and again with it, right? Like, I was watching your videos a few minutes ago, and you said, like, well, people want a month of content, right? You want 30 ideas for graphics or for ads. And what do you do? You go to chat GBT and you ask it, but you don't like the answers, and you ask again and again. And even, like, when I'm what I was telling you earlier about, like, using chat GPT for book covers, I'll be like, you know, feed it some book covers. No, I want these colors. And then I'll, I'll like, download some of what it gave me, and I'll say, Well, can you combine these ideas? And it's like, there's all this iterating. It's, it's not just a magic machine, and someone has to do that work. And then there's that kind of 17 hats trap, where entrepreneurs think they need to do it all, and it's like, Yeah, but you're going to hold yourself back, be the bottleneck, slow things down, and then distract yourself from those higher level tasks that you've been discussing. But it seems like entrepreneurship, it's all problems and struggles, but it's good, it's the worthwhile problems. And I'm really curious about what kinds of struggles that you've been through with your with your business, or with growing it, or, like, what do you think is worthy talking on a podcast about just your own difficulties these last few years?

Jonathan Grzybowski 11:29 I mean, difficulties is like, for me, I have a different problem than, than, than maybe a lot of other people, and it's time really time management. What do I spend the most amount of time on? And there are, like so many fires on a daily basis that you really have to pick and choose what fire is worth getting rid of in that particular moment, it could be like a really loud client that a lot of the team members that are working with us are struggling to manage. Okay, well, how do you, how do you, how do you navigate that, right? Like, do I need to answer that email? Do I need to be able to talk to that individual from, that's from, like, my internal day to day, from a strategy standpoint, from like, a business standpoint, I think a lot of people nowadays, the the world of search has changed forever. Sure, Google is still reliable and you can use it, but I really think that what's super important nowadays is being in front of people as much as possible. And it's always true, right? It's always been like the same the formula has never changed. It's the same crap. It's just different vehicles and verticals. So now it's, well, I wanted to be on Google, okay, well, now, now it's before it was Google, and I want to be number one, and I want to make sure that my my business is shown at the very top, and you pay money in order to do that. Now it's like, okay, well, how can I do that for AI, right? How can I be able to create content and put things on my website and and trick AI in order to say who is the best graphic design service that can is better than anyone else. And pending is the first website that goes on to on the top of any type of these ln types of organizations. Same rules. So the struggle really is, is like adapting to that, because nobody really knows, is the wild wild west at this point. How can you put yourself and elevate your business in a way where it's profitable still, but also is searchable and people care about it? And I think the answer to that is two, two things. Number one, are you just a

Jonathan Grzybowski 13:38 good company? Like, do

Jonathan Grzybowski 13:42 you give a crap about your people? Do you give a crap about your customers? I actually interview every single one of our customers, somehow, some way, they don't have to listen to me. They don't have to answer my email. But I talk to them, at least I try to. That's awesome, right? Because they're talking to somebody who cares about them. They feel empowered, etc, etc. Like I make it a point to do that, it directly reflects, if you were to go search for any review on about pending on social media or any type of other platform, you'll see is very well represented in life because of that. Okay, so the next aspect of that is the social aspect. So how can you create content that serves one of two purposes? There's content that is engaging and click baby for views, and then there's content in this in the aspect of educational and value driven. Both can be true. Both can work at the same time, but I would say that whatever that is, pick one and then stay with it. I don't think there's a true blend of both. There, there. There can be few examples, but I think that they're few and far between. But I would say that like you have to produce things again. In front of people. I don't think you can hide anymore. You can't be in the silos. You can't be in the in the back, just like lurking, like you have to be if you want to move forward in this future world, like you, you have to be a face and you, you have to be more than just a,

Unknown Speaker 15:17 you know, a person working at a desk.

Robert Plank 15:18 Of course, I completely agree. It's too competitive for that, right? It's like the hiding behind the website that might have worked when there, when there were way less websites, way less people, and yet you have a website, you rank a little bit and and cool, you stand out just by default. But now, with just it being so crowded, you need to do these things to stand out. And so what I'm getting from you was you're saying that it's important to have this awareness and to know where you're at, what your goals are, who you want to be. And then when you think about what, what the Evergreen strategy is right for SEO, or for AI, it's like, well, they're looking for like, do you stand out? Do you have all these like, hard to

Unknown Speaker 15:59 accumulate factors

Robert Plank 16:02 about you. And so it's like, well, if you post on social media, if you have the content, if you have backlinks, if you have your views, if you police their views, if you kind of have things activity happening all the time, it's like, Well, cool. Not everyone has that. So hopefully you rise above it, as far as just standing out from the crowd in that way and so, and you're saying that the way that you do that is to be an appreciator of people, and to put in the time and make sure, like one on one, like just kind of do your reps right, do the iterations, and talk to who needs to be talking about. And you give me quick flashbacks to last year, my son was in soccer, and he's only five, so it was kind of a disaster. And then, you know how it is with the kids at that young age, it's just a bunch of chaos. But I know, like, one thing that impressed me was the coach made sure to, like, check in with each kid, right? And so when, when the timing was appropriate, like, hey, talk to this kid, and, like, talk to my son and make sure that he was okay, and it's a kind of a hack needed transition in our conversation, I think, to what you're doing, as far as your own, there's the leadership in your business, but there's the leadership as far as family wise, right? And you have this kind of dad podcast, and you talk about maybe some of these factors that apply to business, but also apply to personal, real life and family. And so what is this dad podcast that you've created? And how did that come about?

Jonathan Grzybowski 17:30 I never thought I was going to be a dad. Personally, just from, you know, a medical thing. But also, in addition to just not finding the right person, and then you find the right person, and then you're able to have a child, and you have a child, and it's the coolest thing ever. And when I was trying to become learn more about being a dad, it was very female driven content and it, and that's great, right? But like usually, when you want to become, when you want to do something, you look at other people that are like you. So that could be the color of your skin, it could be your your background, it could be the language that you speak, whatever it is, right? Like you. You put that forth. And I feel like, for me, given just my experience at penji and my career as an entrepreneur for over 15 years, almost I feel like I I want to be able to help other fathers who want to elevate their their skills, but also find other people that are like me, self servingly, to talk to them and have conversations, because I don't see a lot of vulnerability in fathers. It's hard to be able to find acknowledge your problems, whether it be in your marriage life, but also within your child and you're raising your child, your children and and I think more men should reach out to other men to check in. And so since then, I've felt it empowered enough to be able to reach out to my friends and that have kids before me and say, Listen, dude, I'm really sorry for not checking in with you. I should have, but I'd never experienced before, and I didn't know what to do. And then all the people who are fathers now new fathers, I make sure that I check with with them on like, a monthly basis. And to be able to have that support system, I think, is really important, and that's why I created dear dads, because I want to be able to have a system for myself, a group of people that that are similar to me and have similar values. And I don't want it to ever it's super young, and it's in its ideation, but I don't want it to become some, like, brotherhood bull crap thing, like, that's just not my vibe. Like, I just wanted to be maybe an email chain or a text chain, and it's just an accountability tracker. It's like, the. Man, I I wiped my butt today. Cool. That's me too, you know, like, I just want to be super chill and fun and and if it grows into something awesome, cool, if it doesn't, then at least I have five new friends, right? Or at least I have 10 new friends. And to me that that'll be worth it, no matter how many views or followers it ever gets

Robert Plank 20:21 very nice, and there's something to be said about just checking in and making friends and and taking it easy, right, not having a super forceful agenda. And so is this a interview podcast? Is that right?

Jonathan Grzybowski 20:35 It will be Yeah, yeah, right now, just me talking in front of a camera, because I don't know what it looks like. I'm personally the type of individual that has to figure it out on my own and find a voice. And it was gonna, I was gonna bring up the story about chat GPT, basically taking iterations over and over again. It's taken me a month and a half using just my brain and also my leveraging AI in order to come up with the right formula to from what I believe is a is a powerful platform

Jonathan Grzybowski 21:16 that Can that can help other people and

Jonathan Grzybowski 21:22 and that that's not proof that AI isn't there where it's going to give you the best answer right away, and I don't know what else is, because it's literally taken me months to figure out the right system. And even then, I don't know if it's going to resonate on camera or socially or whatever it may be, but I feel really good about it, and I think if you feel really good about it, then therefore it will succeed, right? You've been doing this podcast for

Unknown Speaker 21:49 what, like 10 years, maybe.

Robert Plank 21:51 I mean, I did the I started, I've been doing the solo shows 13 years, and then the interview style 10 years. So let's say 10 years.

Jonathan Grzybowski 22:00 Yeah, yeah, 10 years. I mean, like, I'm sure it probably gets tiring at some point, but you're still proud of it, and you're still happy with it, and there's still a lead generation source. So who are you to ever stop it? And I think whatever that is in your life, you should, you should do just that, yeah.

Robert Plank 22:18 And there's so many things that we take for granted in our life that we're just, we kind of picked up the momentum. And are, is it sometimes on Sundays hard or boring, or you think, Well, should I do something else? And that's a perfectly healthy idea to have, but you say, Well, hey, well, what's the upside? And what kind of like gratitude and optimism Can I have? And if I'm having these weird other thoughts of doubt, like, why is that? Is it just boredom, or is there really a need to change or change a little bit, but not throw the whole thing out? And so as far as listening to the this show, Are you the kind of person that says, like, start at the beginning, or is there, like, a more recent solo episode you think is really good jumping off point?

Jonathan Grzybowski 23:00 I just watched the most recent episode, and just like, I wouldn't watch it. And I think that was kind of the point where I was like, I need it needs to change. Like, I created content counters. I know exactly what I want to say and what I want to talk about, but it's just the how. So like, for me in particular, it's like, I don't really care about looking like an asshole in front of in social media. Like, I don't really care, so therefore I'll just record my myself, I'll say some dumb stuff, and then I'll post it. And then, like, somebody came to me, I was at, like, a family thing, and it's like, oh yeah. So what are your thoughts on notion? And I'm like, What the f are you talking about? Bro? Like, I have no idea. He was like, Yeah, you made a video about the other day. I was like, oh wow. Like, I forgot about it, and so I just want to see what works. And clearly, it got somebody talking about it, and in my family, but, but, yeah, I mean, I my process is that I just do it, and then I'll figure it out later, and then I'll refine it, but I'm refining directly in real time, like, I'm not, I'm not, like, like, I am stopping to a degree, but like, I'm not going to stop doing it. It's just going to be a different style each time.

Robert Plank 24:07 Okay, yeah, so you're looking at the results, whatever that means for you. And there is value in not caring what other people think and just kind of like seeing what the result is and seeing how how you feel about it. And so if someone wants to check out this podcast, what's it called, where can they find it?

Jonathan Grzybowski 24:24 Dear dads, is the name of it.

Jonathan Grzybowski 24:29 Free ideas is another one. Pendie obviously has one as well.

Robert Plank 24:35 Okay, so the resources that we'll sort of go back to in a minute, there's pengy.co there's free ideas, and there is dear dads. And before we get to that, I want to squeeze in one last couple of minutes here where I fill in whatever you think is missing in our conversation. So when this discussion we're having here, Mr. Jonathan grouse key, do you think is there a missing question? But I should be asking. You, I just don't know what to ask you.

Jonathan Grzybowski 25:02 Why aren't more people expressing themselves online

Jonathan Grzybowski 25:16 and doing it truthfully? Because there are a lot of people that promote content and they show get rich quick schemes, but they don't show the truthful aspects of how to actually grow a business and how long it takes in order to gain traction. I don't know what year for you. Robert was like, the year where it's like, wow, my, my, my viewers are up and the leads are good and whatever it is, but you have a formula in place. And so the question is more, not to me, but it's to you. What is stopping you today from sharing what you do, or sharing what your passion is, or sharing whatever it is, and how can you do it in a way that's super fun and unique and at least cool to you and inspiring. And if it's cool to you, it's

Jonathan Grzybowski 26:03 probably cool to other people.

Robert Plank 26:05 And I think you're stumbling on something that's, I've been coming across that by accident lately, these last few days, just the idea of, well, if you're resisting, like, ask yourself, why, right? If you're fearful of something you don't necessarily need to solve, right, or you but, like, ask yourself, like, if you're if you keep getting stuck on this issue or this question or this barrier, like, ask, just focus on just like, you know, what are you afraid of with that? Or why aren't you being authentic with that? Like, what's the story you're telling in your head? That's it's deep, that's profound, and it's something to think about as we check out these resources. There's the dear dads podcast, there's the free ideas podcast, and there's pendie.co and is there like, a quick, like, just elevator pitch, or, like, one last little burst of promotion for, like, if someone hasn't heard of pending or need to encourage them to go to the site, what's The quick

Jonathan Grzybowski 26:57 sales pitch for pending? Pendie?

Jonathan Grzybowski 27:01 Is your team's team. And if you have an existing team, existing team, and you want to elevate your existing team, I think pending is a great way to be able to supplement the creative aspects of your business. And the best part is that we're a flat rate retainer, so you you don't have to be locked into anything crazy. You just pay a credit card, and it's considered an expense on your business, and you carry on in your day.

Robert Plank 27:33 Very cool. So flat rate, motion graphics, graphic design, custom branding, custom advertising, web design, illustrations, presentation design. It's an amazing resource. And like you said, a flat rate. So you just, it's, it's that Department of your business, and you have someone working on that aspect, and that is P, E, N, j, i.co, they're like a creative agency, but 70% more affordable. They're the HQ of your creative team where all the design, Video, Web and strategy operations happen. That's pengy.co and before I let you go, Mr. Jonathan, it's time for the scary ending of the podcast where I try to stump you. I try to put you on the spot by asking you about a fun or interesting quote or lesson that has served you. So what comes to mind as far as quote or lesson?

Jonathan Grzybowski 28:25 It's kind of a new one that I've been saying to myself, and I feel like it resonates a job, job's not done, and it's been working well for me mentally, because just because you do a good job, or just because you find a little bit find a little bit of massive success, if, if you have an end goal, whatever that may be, then you'll know when to stop. And for me, job's not done is something that I've been saying to myself quite a bit that's been been working well, so I hope that maybe it could resonate with other people. But yeah, job's not done.

Robert Plank 29:02 Job's not done now, is it at the ending point, or are there more milestones to go? And that's it's very on brand. As far as the creative graphic design person, right? Sometimes you say, well, the graphic it's there, it's cooked. There's no improvement. But sometimes, like, I can keep on tweaking it so job's not done. We'll consider that is, we go to P, E, N, j, i.co that's pengy.co flat rate for ad and graphic and creative work. Mr. Jonathan grisbowski, great to have you again. Thank you. Good to see you. Man. Sue.