264: Accelerate Your Online Branding with Brand Strategist Jena Rodriguez

Robert Plank 0:00 Robert Plank Show, episode 264, accelerate your online branding with brand strategist, Jenna Rodriguez, hey everybody, wonderful and well everybody and welcome back to the show. We're back on the Robert Plank show. Our guest today is Jenna Rodriguez from brand with jenna.com that's Jenna with one a so Jenna, how are things today? I

Speaker 1 0:22 am fabulous. Thanks Robert for having me. This is great. I'm so excited to be here. I am

Robert Plank 0:27 excited as well. So can you tell us who you are and what you're all about? Absolutely,

Speaker 1 0:31 I am a six and seven figure brand strategist and business accelerator coach, and I just love entrepreneurship first and foremost, and I work with entrepreneurs day in and day out, to what I call get their brave on and be more involved in understanding what their brand is and what their strategies are and how to make money and position themselves, so that people really connect with who they are and what they're all about, and ultimately, have a business that they're proud of. So that's what I'm busy doing on a daily basis. And I just love it. Yeah,

Robert Plank 1:08 awesome. I mean, it sounds, sounds like a lot of rewarding stuff, and sounds like you can jump in at all kinds of different, you know, different people's businesses and adventures and stuff like that. And so, you know, this, this branding stuff, I'm really glad you heard because it's branding stuff like, it really sort of drives me crazy, like, because I'm never really sure if it's like, well, should all of my, all of my website colors be the same or like? Should, should I keep using certain phrases, or should I be known for a certain kind of, like, a word, or like a keyword or like? So, I mean, so what kind of things, what sort of actions do you take when you help these clients to, you know, make their business the best they can be. I mean, what kind of things do you do? Exactly,

Speaker 1 1:45 yeah. So, so the first thing I'd like to share is that I do have a distinction between brand and branding. And so that's kind of where I begin with people, because there, once we get that awareness, then we can start to really develop the strategy as well as the answer those type of questions. And so what I always say is brand is your brand is who you are and it's what you stand for. It's the experience of who you are, and branding is simply the process of expressing it. So branding is the out. I call it the difference between the inner game and the outer game. So the inner game of your brand and versus the outer game of your branding. And so what I found, especially when my husband I had previously had a web and graphic design company, so great question about the website. And what I found is people were like, wanted the logos and wanted to make it look pretty, but they weren't clear on who they were, they weren't clear on what they were trying, what message they were trying to share, or what trying to what brand position they really wanted to create. And so I was doing a lot of strategy around that first, before we could ever get to the decisions about color and tag lines and names of your business and, you know, and all of those outer game specifics. So that's the first thing to know, is that there truly is, in my book, a difference, and I spend a lot of a lot more time now working with clients on the inner game and helping them have a brand that is clear, that is, you know, easy to articulate. And it's an evolution process, you know you you get is like, just as we are as human beings, we're constantly growing. We're constantly changing and evolving. And so do we as a business. And so when you can at least identify for the time that you're in your business, wherever, whatever phase you're in, and find out what is it that I stand for, what is my core values, and why do I do what I do? Then you can then start to look at what is the problem I solve, and how do I want to communicate that to my ideal target audience, and and I call that finding your brand fans right, really getting clear on who you're meant to serve, not just everyone, because that's not a true statement, or not for everyone. And and then you can start to look at, okay, well, how now that I know kind of the foundation of my business, that brand Foundation, how do I want to express it? And what color makes sense, what you know, font really makes the the feeling that I want to leave upon people, because you're it is true. You know, color has an impact emotionally fonts and style and graphic elements, and more importantly, your photos and your imagery have an emotional pull. And so if you don't know what story you're telling, then it's really hard to make those you know, visual systems work, and so that's the clarity I think, is really important for people to get. And yes, I'm I agree that, you know, websites and color and and the look and feel of your brand should be consistent, and that, and the reason for that is to build likability and memorability and so that people. Will really start to trust the brand that you are. So every time they see a touch point, they they're like, Oh, I get, I know who that is, you know, and I remember that. And And yet, the biggest thing that I want people to walk away with is, you know, what it looks like. Is not about is it pretty? And do I like it? And, you know, is the, you know, is it just look good, but is it appropriate? Is it appropriate to the story I'm trying to tell? Is it appropriate to the the impression that I really want to leave, and the brand experience that I want people to have? So there's a mouthful,

Robert Plank 5:35 awesome mouthful, but lots of good stuff in there, and it all, I mean, it's starting to make sense, especially me, like, sort of, like a, like a step by step process. And it sounds like maybe a lot of people's problem with this so called branding thing is that maybe they kind of pick and choose things, or kind of do things in a random mortar. And it sounds like to you, it's that that core brand is the most important, and then whatever kind of, whatever that sort of fires off or repeats, is sort of the kind of the byproducts, or, like, the superficial stuff. So once you figure out what that kind of core message is, then afterwards, then there's the colors and the fonts, and then then there's, like, the story and all the stuff that's appropriate, but it all kind of starts from that core, inner game brand kind of thing. Exactly.

Speaker 1 6:18 Yeah, it really is that, you know, discovery session. I do that a lot in VIP days, where we get clear on the inner game first, and then, you know, if, if you want help with your outer game, then we have it basically informs it, you know, like, as you make decisions on how you want things to look and feel, you've got the information that you need to do so in a, you know, in a powerful way,

Robert Plank 6:42 awesome. So when you you have this sort of discovery session, you have a client that says, Okay, well, I need to figure out what my brand is, and then what my branding comes from that. I mean, what sort of your your thought process like, what are the, I guess, like raw materials that you ask for someone like, do you look at their website or maybe ask them what people say or like, you know, with how do you sort of make sense of all this sort of mess that people have? Yeah,

Speaker 1 7:04 make sense of the mess. You know. The The good news is is I do have a pretty clear system, and I call it, it's a 12 component system around this brand and branding conversation. And I call it brandarity, and I made up the word yes, it's the fun part of owning our own business. We can make up words and basically it means brand clarity, right? And that's what brandarity is all about. And I start with understanding what their brand stand is. I move them to a conversation around their brand fans, which is understanding that you can you have to have a target market, but then you have to, in my book, understand who your it factors are your intentional target, which is that bullseye, those are those people that you're meant to serve because they intrinsically resonate with you. And so we go through a process that helps people connect to what those attributes are, and the more we know who we're meant to serve, the more we know why we're serving those people right through our stand. Then we look at what's the positioning in our marketplace. How do we want to position? Do we want to be Walmart, or do we want to be a Neiman Marcus in our industry? Do we want to be a Kia, or do we want to be a Rolls Royce? Right? Because when we make an intentional decision, and I think that's something a lot of small business owners miss, is they just don't even know that they get to choose. They think that they've got to be all things to, you know, and make sure people can afford them. And you know, and and you know, your sales funnel, your, what I call your delivery funnel, about with all the different price points. Is not about meeting people in their affordability, but it is about dating people. It's about letting people touch and feel your material or your your you know, your topics or your knowledge in different levels. However, the ultimate access to you should be positioned in a way that aligns with, you know, that that Walmart or Neiman Marcus, you know, conversation, Walmart is not trying to be Neiman Marcus and vice versa, right? They serve very two different markets. And it doesn't mean that a customer can't be both customers of both in, you know, both companies. So that's the third thing that I do, and then we look, start to look at your brand sound. What is the point of view that you have? What is your brand message versus your marketing message? And there's a difference, and you have to have both. In my opinion, marketing message is something that allows people to hear you right. They can connect quickly to what, how you solve a problem for them. And then brand message is how people connect and hear your point of view. And in my opinion, you've got to have both, so that it helps to create the differentiators. And then, like I said, I've got 12 components total, but we move into these different components as I work with people, so that you start to build your value, you start to get grounded in who you are. So you start to see it differently, because we're on autopilot, you know, we're out there doing what we're doing well, you know, and, and it's very natural to us, to, you know, to do what we do is whatever expert you are, whether you're a money coach or you're, you know, you sell a product that solves a problem, or you're a yoga teacher, I mean, like, whatever it is that you have a talent at, we do it so naturally that it's sometimes hard to articulate and and so I help people first kind of look and reflect on who they are and be able to articulate it so that people can understand it better and and like I said, we move through, you know, understanding how you sell, what you sell and and how you price it, so that it aligns with your brand position and and all of those things have to be worked through, which I do a lot with, whether it's private coaching or VIP days, so that then we can make decisions about the branding and, you know, and move forward with that process, that creative process, awesome.

Robert Plank 10:57 So it sounds like a like, a pretty, like, sort of scientific, step by step, lots of little questions to lots of little decisions we made in a row, as opposed to just this kind of, like, nebulous, mystical kind of thing. Yeah,

Speaker 1 11:09 it is. It's very sign. It's like science and art put together, right? Yeah, I try to be as quantifying. I do a lot of scales, you know, like a scale of one to 10, what's your brand position, so that you can quantify something that's pretty intangible, right? And so I do a lot of different things like that. I used to be a controller. I used to be accountant. So I do bring in numbers and try to bring this thing together that is kind of, like you said, kind of a nebulous thing, and and bring some concrete strategy to it. That's my that's the kind of the the sweet spot for

Robert Plank 11:43 me, awesome. Well, does sort of help people to understand the concreteness of it all? Can you kind of walk us through? Maybe one of your clients who came to you and kind of said, Okay, I need help. I need your expertise, and you kind of just kind of revamp, revamp things for them. Yeah.

Speaker 1 11:58 So let me think I've have had many so like, which one would be a great example? I think one of them, I I'm sure Paul won't mind me sharing he, he came to me, he really didn't have a name. He had, you know, he's a he's a web designer, and does great things with, you know, SEO and security on your website and on online digital strategy and, you know? And he came to me, he didn't have a name, he didn't really even have a logo. He, you know, he didn't know how to position himself so that people would really start to get all the things that he does. And even when I met him, I'm like, oh, okay, you do WordPress websites. Well, he's way bigger than that. He's way bigger than that. But that's the impression he was leaving with the materials and the outer game that he was illustrating. And so we spent a VIP day together, and he was so great, because he's like, I don't know what you're going to do to me. You know, I thought I just needed a name and a logo. And I said, Yeah, but there's a process we have to go through and, you know, in order to even get to those branding decisions. And so he trusted the process and and the and one of the things I do at the beginning is help people quantify where they are at the beginning. And I always ask them on a scale of one to 10, how much brand shame Do you have? And brand shame versus brand pride is one of the things I asked because what, what it really is, is you feel disconnected. You feel like it's not representing you in a powerful way. You know that people are confused, you know, right? So that's, that's where we get lower on the scale, and we get a little too close to that brand shame place. And so he did. He told me his number was a two. And so he was feeling pretty shameful, and, and I'm like, okay, great, let's get you to a 10, because that's where you know you should walk away from this day at a 10, and really know who you are and know how you're going to go, you know, show up in the world. And so sure enough, we spent one day together, and we I found out so much about his story, about his background, about his passion, about why he left a, you know, a high paying job to help people in this manner and you know, and how, how technically inclined he was, and yet he was also a born musician. He his dad is kind of a famous classical musician. And I was like, interesting. I had no idea, right? And what was interesting is we connected those pieces of his story and who he was individually into some of his branding. Now, it doesn't always work perfectly like that, but for me, you know, by the end of the day, I realized that who he was was a digital Maestro. He harmonizes the online world for people. He speaks really, you know, he speaks human versus HTML. He's very good at breaking it down into really simple terms, because HTML is quite confusing, right? It's very technical. So it took us, you know, going through the process that I just kind of explained, to get to that decision. Because I didn't, I don't start out the day going, I think I know what your name is, right? Or, you know, or yes, your name is appropriate, and we can run with it. And he really didn't have a name, so I knew that was one of our goals. So his company is digital Maestro calm, and you can look that up. And we came up with, you know, a color scheme that made sense. And like I said, some of those tag lines that we just mentioned and and, you know, really connecting his story and who Paul is, to his branding and to his story, you know, to his messaging and things like that. And it was, it was really powerful. And he his business has grown astronomically since we did that, because he's confident, he's clear. He has a 10 on a scale of one to 10 on the brand shame scale, you know. So when you elevate your perceived value of what you are and how you're showing up, other people can perceive it too. So that's a win. That was a win, win for for him, for sure, and I really appreciated that project. So yeah, and he's still rocking and rolling, awesome.

Robert Plank 16:06 Yeah, that's an amazing story. And then the sort of branding that you landed on that digital maestro, like, it just about sums up everything about this guy. And so, you know, as you were explaining the story, like, it kind of made me think, like, is it possible for some people to get kind of too carried away with the branding, like, to get, like, too cutesy or too out there with the stories and stuff like that,

Speaker 1 16:28 yeah, you know, I think sometimes, I mean, there is a point where our I always, I do say that clarity is better than clever, right? So if, if I thought that digital Maestro wasn't clear enough, you know. And his tagline is online, you know, web and online strategy. Then, you know, then it would be too much, or it would just be too far left field, you know, for people to capture. So I think there is a balance and kind of and it really is individual, you know, it sometimes people are really that kind of personality, then it works. You know, it really depends on who you are and how you're how you're going to show up out there, but you can be too clever sometimes, and then it gets lost in translation. And so I, if I were to say anything, you know, I'd rather people stay on the the safer side of, you know, being clear versus clever, especially if you're a startup, if you have, you know, I was just talking to someone the other day, you know, if you are, you know, and I work with a lot of companies that just start from the ground up, right? They, they, they're, you know, funding their own business. They're starting it from the scratch. They're not, they're not going out there and getting venture capitalists or, you know, $2 million in seed money and investments and things like that. You know, if you want to create a business that it's kind of like the Google of the world. Google means nothing without the concept behind it, without the story, without the you know, and what, what they did, you know, in in and what a lot of companies do that have that kind of unique name that really means nothing unless you put a story behind it or clarity around what that means and what it what's the definition, you got to put a lot of money into marketing and advertising to get that, that word out quickly. And so when you're doing the guerrilla marketing approach, when you're, you know, a small business owner like myself and, you know, and a lot of people listening, I recommend that you do go clear, you know, go the clear direction, versus clever to expedite your results. If you've got the investment and the funding to create a lot of marketing plans and a lot of, you know, paid advertising, and you can get the story and the videos and, you know, and a lot of those things out there in a pretty quick manner, then you can be a little more clever, in my opinion, you just, you know, it's, it's just depends on your goals. It depends on how accelerated you want the results to be, you know, I believe mark, you know, marketing is the visibility, right? A part of our business. And if you are having to get highly visible in order to explain what you do and what your name means, and all of that, then you've got to have the resources to do that. And and so I just, I look at all of those pieces when I, when I work with a company, you know, if they've got the budget, then we can be a little more clever, and we can get a little more involved in strategies that will take some investment in order to get the story told. But if you are starting from scratch, and you, you know, you're kind of like gorilla marketing, right, just, you know, all of the free resources that we can get, then I prefer to stick on the the side of caution and just be a little more clear about what we're trying to accomplish. If that makes sense.

Robert Plank 19:49 Yeah, yeah, it does. And I mean, fair enough on all of that and so on what I'm hearing a lot of as you're kind of explaining, like your thought process and how you kind of, you know, take what they have and turn it into. The good. It sounds like there's a lot of just, like, not, not just having like, a statement or a message, but like coming up with that story and kind of flushing a few things out and making it, making it about the the people that that your clients are serving, not just about the the clients themselves. Like with the digital maestro, like, I've kind of come across a similar kind of, I don't know if you'd call it like a like, an objection or a hesitation, but like, anytime that you say that you're a computer geek kind of person, like, you know, your client, Paul is a web designer. I do like membership sites and webinars, and it's like, whenever I mention, you know, WordPress or something, there's a hesitation, like, oh, well, I don't want to learn to be a computer geek like you. I just want you to do the computer geek stuff for me, and so with that digital Maestro stuff, and especially, like, the the we speak human not HTML stuff, I can kind of it kind of seems like that that's a big part of it. Like, not just making it about them and their story, but also about, like, how about the cool things they can do for their for their customers?

Speaker 1 20:58 Yeah, you know. And I think it basically comes down to, like I mentioned, the difference between having a marketing message and a brand message and having both and more, you know, and making sure that you're clear on, you know, where you use, utilize them and you know, marketing message. For me, I have a process that's called mimic your market, basically in order for people to hear what, hear themselves in our messaging, they you got to speak their language. You got to use their words. You got to connect to what their problem is quickly, right? What they're keeping themselves up at night about, you know? And so sometimes that language is pretty Layman and pretty simplistic. But then we have to create a brand message that helps people connect to who we are as a brand and how we differ from the next guy and what we're about, personality wise and and so if we have both of those going on, then people can connect with us through our brand message, because they like us and know us and trust us, and then they can also hear us. And if people can't hear you. You can't help them, right? They won't hire you because they don't know what you do for them. And so I think that's kind of the if I'm if I'm hearing you correctly. There, that's a little bit of the conversation that goes on for people is that, you know, just how do you tell the story, and how do you also get people to understand what you do for them, so that they can, you know, hire you and and have the help. So it's a combination awesome. And

Robert Plank 22:25 when I see, uh, going forward now, when I see other people's branding and their messaging and stuff like that, I'm going to be keeping that in mind, that are they using not only my language, but then also saying how they can, they can solve their problem, to all that, know, like and trust stuff. Yeah,

Speaker 1 22:39 exactly you want to, you, you know? And, and I think it's so, you know, there's some subliminal work out there, you know, so, and some people do it really well, and a lot of, you know, and then other people are just so heavy on their features, and they're like, this is how the best we are and, and we're better than these guys and that. And that's, that's not what people want to hear anymore, right? So there's, they're really heavy on, maybe even the brand message, where they're just telling, you know, telling their story, but they're not really speaking my language, so I don't even know what they do for me, right? So there's, you know, you know, we just have to try to find a balance. And it's a, it's an ongoing process, you know. And I, I'm not perfect at it all the time by any means, but I, I certainly am aware of it and and you can continuously listen to your marketplace, listen to your clients, write down verbatim what they're saying is their challenge and their problem, and that will inform a lot of your marketing message. And then, you know, your brand message comes from your own belief system and your own point of view, and what your truth is about your industry, or about your you know, the services that you provide, and you know, and so one's coming from more of an internal space, and one message is coming from the external feedback from the market you serve, awesome

Robert Plank 23:54 and sort of along the lines of listening to your marketplace. I mean, it's like, it's one of those things, at least for me, like I might know, I might not know that there's a problem with me in my own business until I see someone else has, like, the same problem, but their problem is like, 20 times worse. So I kind of see my weaknesses and their exaggerated form. And one time, I was at some kind of conference where different people were speaking, and one person he was he had, like, some kind of email autoresponder service, and he was telling me that the webinar that he runs for it like, has to be three hours. Can't be two hours, can't be 90 minutes. Like, he needs three hours to spend, like, saying all these features and stuff. And I didn't really, you know, want to kind of, you know, insult this person or whatever, but I was just thinking, Whoa. Like, if this person's mindset is, I need three hours just to say list all these things I'm saying. Like, whoa. Even I need to kind of trim my own stuff and make it, you know, more like, where people can understand what I'm saying in a sentence and not take take three hours to kind of explain it, understand it, right, or even just to begin to understand it. And so, so with all this branding stuff, I mean, there's, there's a lot of, you know, like you said, like, it's an ongoing. Process, and you might have to, you know, go back and and, you know, update the branding and stuff like that. But is it possible that some people maybe are, like, overthinking the branding and maybe using, maybe, maybe using all this stuff as maybe an excuse to not take action sometimes,

Speaker 1 25:14 you know, yeah, that's interesting. You know, I think it definitely depends on the phase of your business, like or if you're in startup mode, I know that, you know, cash is king. I know that cash flow is really important, especially in startup, you know, because you can't even invest more into your brand. You know development and your you know strategies and your marketing and and advertising and all those things if you don't have the cash coming in. So, you know, I'm very practical when it comes to that. And so if you're a startup mode, there are, you know, certainly, things that you can start with. You know, sometimes just get started with a logo. Just gets consistent, like, if you've made it yourself, at least be consistent. You know, stop trying to, you know, change the colors on every, you know, touch point that you have, or every different marketing material. You know, if you make one, stick with it, and then you can always get to the the marketing of your business, so that you can start to generate cash flow. And then we can come back and go. Now that we're more informed by being in action, I think clarity comes from action, right? So when we start a business, we don't we only know what we can hypothesize, because we really haven't got the clients. And so if we can get you know phase one, just get started with some basic branding. Then get into action around your marketing and selling activities. Get new clients. Do you know, deliver your services and products, and then you can start to get informed by, how are they working? What is working, what's not working, what's being understood, what's being misunderstood. And then you start to refine it. It's the refinement is like the name of the game. We're always refining, right? And so if you're farther along in your business, probably a year or two years, and you've had some of that feedback, then it's a really good time to to maybe invest in that rebrand and get a professional involved, so that you can elevate the person, the perception that you're that you have, and all of the marketing effort that you're doing, and people will see you in a different light. They'll understand what you're doing in a in a particular way. They'll connect with you faster. So, yeah, I always you know amount, you know, that's a part of my intake process, of course, is just finding out what stage of your business you're in and and what's the primary goal. And if the goal is to get cash flow in, then maybe investing. I mean, I'm not saying don't get branded, but, you know, I just think it needs to, you gotta be smart about it. You know, you gotta be there's, there's priorities, you know, there's things. And if you've got a limited budget, then I'll help you figure out what to prioritize first, right? Because I want you to, I want you to see sales results as well so that you can continue to grow, because if you, if you wipe yourself out financially, which I've done before, by the way, I've my first business crashed and burned. I made good sales, but then I was also highly in debt and couldn't pay my employees, so I had to close the store and and it cost me an arm and a leg. I mean, I ended up in bankruptcy because of it. So I know how it is to be. You know where you have to prioritize certain development in your business, and we have to look at that and make a decision together so that you're not only keeping cash sustainable, but also you can accelerate some of that cash cash flow, by making smarter decisions in your branding and your marketing. So it's a big picture decision, right? We have to look at the big picture in order to make those decisions. And of course, that's, that's what I love helping people figure out, because it's a, you know, I, I always say, entrepreneurship is not the easy way, it's the brave way, and we as entrepreneurs have to wear many hats. You know, it's not just the hat called I'm, you know, I'm a business coach or brand strategist, right? I have to be an accountant, I have to be a marketer, I have to be a salesperson. I have to be, you know, good at delivering my services. I have to be a manager of my team, I have to, you know, all these different hats that come into play, and it can be overwhelming for someone that's brand new, certainly, and and I don't, we're not. We don't come into this knowing all that. We don't come into entrepreneurship, knowing how to be good at every single hat and every single piece of the operation. And so I that's where I think people do need that outside resource, or coach or mentor, or which is what I have. I've got two of them, because I don't know what I don't know. And and the more I can have that support and then accelerate my results, because I learn what I need to learn based on the phase of my. Business, then I can grow faster and, and so I just want to offer that, because I know there's just a lot of there's a lot of pieces to the puzzle, and, you know, and it can all be accomplished. And, and I, you know, when I work with clients, I try to keep them focused on where they are. And yes, have the big vision, but also go, okay, what are we going to do in the next 90 days so that we can get to the next 90 days and have the cash to support us? So, yeah, awesome. So,

Robert Plank 30:28 so pretty practical. And it's also good to know that, you know, even if we, like you said, like, even if some startups, if they're not quite ready for the branding stuff, it's not the end of the world. That's always the thing, that they can come back to it later. And so when people come to you for this kind of coaching, like, do you prefer if people already have some stuff out there they've created and kind of taken a stab at it, or do you prefer to work with a clean slate? Or is it either one or, like, what's the situation there? Yeah,

Speaker 1 30:54 that's a good question. I I start, I really work with both. And I definitely, you know, someone's a startup. I'm like, All right, you know, because, you know, investing with me in brand is is a bigger investment, right? So I want them to at least have something that they've, you know, they're ready to be consistent with and and let's just get the the business started, right? Let's just get out there. And if you've got the funds and the funding to create something initially with, you know, obviously someone professional, then, yeah, go for it, because there is a value to it. There is a professionalism that shows up. I'm not here to say, you know, that you shouldn't go and get invest in your branding from the get go, because if you can see the value of it, and you can accelerate your results based on having some really well done and well executed branding, then do it right. And I've worked with people that are like, I see the value. I'm a startup, but I want to get this handled. And so just know that the refinement process will probably occur throughout the growth of your business. And so there may be a point where you rebrand, or you, you know, change it slightly, or, you know, update it. And that's the beauty of branding, right? It's editable. However, yeah, I believe that if someone is just getting started, and you know, they really have to focus on the fastest path to cash, then start with wherever you are, start with something consistent. Start with a logo that, you know, I mean, preferably, you know, just go out there online and find something that's, you know, effective, but maybe not the most expensive and but be willing to be consistent and professional about it. You know, I, I, I, you know, it's a hard question for me to answer sometimes, because I it's not, it's not about like, yes, everybody needs a Absolutely. You've got to invest 100% 1000s and 1000s of dollars in your branding from day one. Because I don't always think that's true, right? I'm very like you said. I'm very practical. I want to look at what your situation is. I want to look at what your game plan is, and what your cash, cash flow is, you're right. You know, what's your capability? Because I'm not going to tell you to spend something that's not. You know, absolutely priority based on what you can. You know, can invest however, if you can go for it, right, because there is a value to the professionalism that it will instill in other people's minds, and the faster you can do that, the faster your business grows, right? So I believe branding can be an accelerator, absolutely. So you just gotta figure out what you're willing to invest in and where you are in the game of business, right? And, and that's, of course, you know why, partly why I'm here to help, you know, is figure out what that game is. But I work with people at all different levels to answer your question for

Robert Plank 33:49 sure. Okay, cool, great answer, and great advice in general. And so sort of along those lines, if people want to know, you know, if they want to, you know, contact you if they want to hire you for coaching, if they want to check out, I don't know, like your your podcast or your blog or whatever there is to check out. Can you tell us what you have happening lately and what kind of websites people should be visiting to find out more about you? Yeah,

Speaker 1 34:11 for sure. So brand with jenna.com and that's brand with Jenna with 1n. J, e, n, a.com is certainly the first place to stop, stop by, and you'll find on the home page, you'll find some free resources. I've got a complimentary copy of one of my newest PDFs where talks about your brand sound and how to correct your 62nd introduction, which is basically a marketing message. And then there's also my podcast, like you mentioned, the brave entrepreneur, and that's a huge dose of inspiration and other entrepreneurs telling their stories and sharing their brand position and and that's on the website as well. And then right below that, and you know, pretty much. On the home page there, if somebody wants to have a conversation with me, I would be very open to that and just to see where they are. And there's a button for getting a brand boost session with me, a 30 minute complimentary call to just identify where they are, what they need, and how can I support them and move forward. So any of that is easily accessible on my website, and of course, I'm on social media and iTunes and all of that with the podcast, so easy to find

Robert Plank 35:28 awesome sounds like it so brand with Jenna is the place for everyone to be. That's b, r, a, n, d, W, i, t, h, j, e, n, a, that's Jenna with one, a or 1n. Sorry, 1n. Yeah. What? One A and one in, right? It was still brand with jenna.com go there now and check out those PDFs, check out the podcast and check out that brand session that she's very generous to be be giving away to people. So thanks so much, Jenna for giving us some pretty cool insights about sort of your thought process or people are going wrong. People going right. I really appreciate you. Appreciate your advice. So thanks for stopping by. Thank you so much, Robert. I really appreciate the conversation. This is Robert Plank, and would you like to be a guest on the program? Do you have an idea for a future episode, or do you just want to tell us how we're doing? Get in touch with us right now at Robert plank.com/ask, to let us know. You.