479: The Hustle: How to Stay Current, Stand Out from the Crowd, and Achieve Massive Business Success with Sam Parr

Robert Plank 0:00 Marketer of the day number 479, the hustle, how to stay current, stand out from the crowd and achieve massive business success with Sam Parr, Hey, everyone, we're so glad you're listening with us today. We're talking right now with Sam Parr from the hustle.co, and he's going to talk to us about how he built, I think he built over 2 million subscribers, among other things. So I mean, Sam, correct me if I'm wrong, and welcome to the show. Glad to be talking to you

Sam Parr 0:30 that those numbers are a bit inflated, so I don't want to right on your parade. But yes, it's a little bit less. It's we're at about 600 subscribers, not 2 million, but we've done a lot in a short amount of time. All right. Well, fair enough. Well, thanks

Robert Plank 0:48 for setting this straight. So, I mean, I mean, what kind of cool stuff do you have to brag about lately? What kind of achievements you have to tell us about?

Sam Parr 0:55 Well, a lot. I mean, our so the hustle is a membership company. We've built it up in about two years to about 20 employees and very significant revenue, and about, you know, 600,000 readers a day, and what I think is a short amount of time, and that's what I'm most proud of, is how quickly we've assembled this team to make this happen.

Robert Plank 1:18 All right. Well, great. So, um, so you have the hustle, you have this team, you have 600,000 readers. And so what's the hustle all about? What makes you guys stand out?

Sam Parr 1:30 Yeah, so the hustle is about helping a generation of builders and entrepreneurs make a debt in the world. And we're doing that by giving people the news they need to start their start their day each morning. And I think one reason people really, really like us is that we have a very no bullshit way of looking at things, and we tell it like it is, and don't hold back. And it seems to have created a community and a movement around something that is typically kind of boring, which is news and business news and information like that. So we've done a really good job of making people excited about that type of stuff. Type of stuff. Okay,

Robert Plank 2:03 so what kind of businesses can you give us some examples?

Sam Parr 2:08 Yeah, so what we cover mostly is the tech and startup culture. So we talk a whole lot about Uber and Spotify and Amazon and very entrepreneurial driven news. So today's or yesterday's biggest story was about Spotify going public today. We talked a little bit about father Uber selling some of his shares. But like, we've done a lot of things about explaining how ICOs, or most ICOs, seem kind of scammy, even though everyone thinks they're all the rage, and we've explained why people should be aware and not jump right into

Robert Plank 2:44 Okay, and how are you guys different from maybe, like, a like a Tech Crunch or a Gizmodo? Is it? Is it that that sort of no fluff, not beating around the bush, thing that you mentioned, or like or something like that?

Sam Parr 2:56 No, well, I mean, yes, that's part of it. But really, what makes this difference is, that we don't really use our website. I mean, our we've built a big business strictly off of email, and so, like we only have a our editorial team is small. It's actually only three people, but we touch, you know, millions of people a month because we're email based. And so we're not beholden to playing clickbait games at Facebook and Google, not always Google, but Facebook, in general, Facebook asks you to play so, you know, we built like instead of a having a website, it's really just all email based.

Robert Plank 3:36 And what was the reasoning behind that? Why live in email and not on a web page, a whole

Sam Parr 3:43 bunch of reasons. It's incredibly intimate. You know, when you let someone into your inbox, it's it's a lot better than just having some articles scroll across your feed from people who you don't know well, sharing it. It's also incredibly efficient. And so like, I mean, I guess realistically, we could run this business with very few people, and it could make significant revenues and profits because of how efficient it is. And it was also just really interesting. You know, not a lot of people have done this, and so like, you know, HuffPo business, insider BuzzFeed, they're all web based, but it's kind of dying. Not the web, of course, is not dying. Websites aren't dying. But like getting traffic through Facebook and through other social channels, it's it's kind of a It's not trending upward right now, most publishers are struggling to get to grow their social traffic, and so we just thought, how can we not be beholden to them and get around and have a direct audience, a direct connection with our audience. Yeah,

Robert Plank 4:43 I love it. And yeah, I think that everyone, everyone is seeing that all like the marketplace, is becoming super crowded. And then, you know, places like Facebook, they want everything to be free, and they want, you know, they want you to play by their rules. And it seems really, really frustrating. So. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. And then I imagine also, with it being email based, then maybe there's like more urgency to read that news. Maybe the news is more like disposable, so that way you get today's news and get rid of it, because you don't want to keep piling up all these emails that you're saving, right?

Sam Parr 5:17 Yeah, well, it's certainly far more predictable. So we know, to an extent, the amount of readership that we're going to have every single day, because our it's really a product, and it becomes habit forming for a lot of our users. And so they each morning, they know what they're going to get, and they consume it every single morning.

Robert Plank 5:34 And so, so along those lines, do you do your best, or is there like a time based deadline? Like, do you have to get it out at a certain time of day, sort of like a newspaper, of

Sam Parr 5:47 course, yeah. So it goes out at 9am Pacific every morning. Okay?

Robert Plank 5:51 And so when you have it go out at 9am Pacific, like, when does your team have to start? Like, what is your schedule like leading up to that 9am deadline, so to speak.

Sam Parr 6:01 Yeah. So they get into the office and get working a little bit later around 11am and then between 11 and one, they're doing some admin stuff, as well as meeting with each other to discuss what's going on in the world. And then from about noon to one to like six or seven at night, they're writing, and then they take a break, and then a lot of our writers are back online from like, 10 to midnight, doing final touches and redo it, and, like, going through and making sure they didn't miss anything. And then they're up again in the morning to see if there's any last minute things that they need to address or not. And then they send so it's a very hard schedule. Super

Robert Plank 6:36 cool, yes, sounds, uh, sort of, sort of demanding, but by by keeping your eye on the ball. Then it now becomes a thing that your subscribers look forward to every morning, start their day, open up their email, 9am see the the stuff coming in. And so what? What does a typical newsletter like this look like? Like? How long is it?

Sam Parr 6:56 It ranges from 1000 to 1500 words. Generally, typically, the sweet spot is about 1200 or so, maybe a little more, a little less, but, you know, that's been about the number that seems to work best. There's it's typically very, very text heavy, because that's what we've seen that people seem to like most. Though we are experimenting with new format within email.

Robert Plank 7:23 Like, what sort

Sam Parr 7:24 of formats? Well, we haven't, like announced anything yet, so we don't talk about too much, but we certainly think it's interesting to have. I mean, I'm totally exploring, like, how to make video work in email, and so that's that's super interesting. You know, it always has seemed weird to me that you can't make a purchase in an email like or you can't watch your videos and email. You know, the email protocol is actually pretty static and hasn't changed for years and years and years. But there's some interesting technology that's being developed now that's kind of pushing, pushing the envelope on what's possible. And so we're exploring some of those.

Robert Plank 8:02 Yeah. I mean, that sounds super exciting, especially with all the mobile devices. I mean, who wants to tap something and then, you know, wait for some other kind of web page to load in this day and age with, uh, with everything going so fast that that seems sort of low tech. So, yeah, like video especially, and and purchases and email, that sounds super exciting. And so, speaking of of things kind of changing over time. Have you guys run into any issues with filtering or deliverability or things like that?

Sam Parr 8:29 Yeah, so we have, I mean, we have a team dedicated to that, and it's, you know, deliverability. It's kind of like SEO to search we have like, I guess, email optimization team, where that's what they focus on. And the difference between SEO and email deliverability is SEO, there's significantly more, significantly more research out there, and data SEO, I mean search engine or email optimization, it's there's not nearly as much literature out there or research on how to do it, right? And so we've totally had to kind of make it, make up the playbook as we've gone along. So

Robert Plank 9:13 do you have any any like secrets or tips on things you've learned to get those emails delivered better, or are those some trade secrets? Well,

Sam Parr 9:23 I mean, first of all, there's like, just generic advice, right? There's just this generic stuff that isn't exactly helpful, because it's not tactical, but it's true, which is basically, you have to, you can't spam people. Everyone has to have signed up for your stuff, and you have to have a product that's good enough that people seek out, okay? So that's, like, the basic minimum. So like, none of this, none of the tactics are gonna work if none of the tactics are gonna work if your product is crap. So once you have a good product, there's a few things that will help. Like, for example, if you get people to reply to you, that helps. Yes, there's certain words that you shouldn't use, like, what you would imagine a scammer would use, would like, free, free credit report, or anything involving pornography, things like that. So we definitely try to like, not you don't want to like, cuss too much and you'd be too vulgar, because that can be kind of Google looks at that as being spammy.

Robert Plank 10:23 Don't mention prescriptions, right? Yeah. So like that type of stuff.

Sam Parr 10:27 We certainly are aware of it. Another thing is, like I said, getting people to reply so or getting people to engage or click, and so that's really important. And so we'll get people to respond to an email, and we'll get 1000s and 1000s of responses, and that really, actually helps making sure that your IP address is really solid. There's ways to track that that has been helpful. So for example, if you like, buy a list that and spam 100,000 people, you're sending IP address is going to be horrible, and you're going to be your reputation within Google's and Google's eyes is going to be really bad. And so constantly making sure that our IP address is really solid or IP reputation is really solid. So we'll clean the list. So if we see that people haven't been opening or engaging with us in the last, say, three months, we just automatically remove them, because if Google sees that, or we're sending to people who don't engage, they they think that we're spammers. And so I think that's probably the biggest things,

Robert Plank 11:28 okay, and so did I hear you right? Just as far as, as far as your email sending like, you don't use like, a send grid type of service, you just, you just deal with those, those issues yourself.

Sam Parr 11:41 So we do actually use SendGrid. We've built our own, we use SendGrid sending API. And so we've kind of built our own email sending interface, like our the like our own, like content management system that our writers use, and then when they send an email, it goes through SendGrid, and SendGrid one of the services that they offer is IP reputation, and we do use that, okay,

Robert Plank 12:06 all right. Well, cool. And so with all that, that bulk email volume, I imagine that that sort of gets expensive, right?

Sam Parr 12:14 Yeah, but there's ways you can save, you know, I think that we like if we stuck with MailChimp? I mean, I think it's like, publicly, let's see MailChimp would probably be like 5g a month, maybe five grand a month with 600,000 people, maybe, maybe be a little more. I think we spend under $10,000 a month in email services.

Robert Plank 12:35 Okay, so you said, you said that you have ways of saving on that. So what sort of ways?

Sam Parr 12:43 You know, I'm not our tech guy, so I'm not in the but we do, there's a handful of things. Like, there's a couple tools out there where they're they're both useful, but they're kind of redundant. For example, if we use a third party, if we use a platform like Periscope, or what's it called Tableau, or something like that, which we do use to track a lot of our data, SendGrid also tracks some of that information. And so there's a handful of upgrades where you're spending maybe 500 or $1,000 a month to track, let's say, an IP reputation or inbox placement that E data source.com offers, but in reality, send grid offers that for free and so, but you just kind of have to dig around. And so there's a whole bunch of like, data insights that we use where it's like, well, we don't actually have to get the upgraded software for this one, because it's already available for free and send grid. And so we've done a bunch of savings, where we've saved maybe two to three grand a month just doing, like, cutting $200.05 $100 a month here and there, from seeing that there's redundancies in in the various bits of software that we're using, right?

Robert Plank 13:56 That makes a lot of sense. Yeah. So it's like, if, if a feature you already have, or even, like, I sort of, I liked your, your thought process there with comparing MailChimp to send grid by saying, well, the price difference isn't, isn't a huge amount, and you're fine paying a little bit more to have a little more control, as opposed to MailChimp. So I kind of, I kind of like that, that thought process of being like, okay, A or B option, and then what sort of things can we reduce? But what really got my interest was you mentioned that you you do some of these things with your newsletter, where you get people to reply to you. And that's the kind of thing where, like, I do that with my my list maybe, maybe every three months or so, but I don't do it enough. Like, sometimes I'll ask about, like, what sort of content do you want to hear about, or what's your struggle? And so I'm curious, like, what kinds of things do you send to your list to get them engaged with you?

Sam Parr 14:49 Well, one of my favorite ones is we'll ask people to send a photo of themselves reading the hustle, and we'll post that on our website. We've done that a couple times, and I really like doing that. I. What else we've had we've we one time, we, like, printed out, like, five or 10,000 stickers, and we were gonna send them to anyone that replied to an email with their address within a certain, certain amount of time. And so that got people to reply, a ton of people, I think, I don't remember the exact number. I think like, 20,000 people, like, sent their address, like sent their address for a free sticker. So those are like the two most popular sometimes, if we want people like we did one where our audience is mostly young, but we do have an older contingency, and we basically were like, anyone who's above 50, share reply with a piece of advice you wish you had known when you were 20, and we'll put it in the email. And so we've done things like that that have been really, really fun and awesome.

Robert Plank 15:51 That's super cool. User generated content, right? Yeah,

Sam Parr 15:54 though, I don't believe that user generated content is like the best way to go for all types of things. And for that case, it works. Well, yeah, I

Robert Plank 16:02 mean, it adds some variation. And so with all this, the stuff that you and your team are cranking out, and, you know, putting out an emails every day, do you do anything with those messages, with those newsletters afterwards? Do they just go in the garbage? Or are you using them for something or like it's, it seems like sort of a waste to just do nothing with that, right? They

Sam Parr 16:24 go online and we, you know, we, we have really good we get, you know, a million people a month coming to the website a month, and a lot of that's from search, because, you know, like, maybe 50 people a day are linking to those stories that are in the email. And so basically, in the email, at the very bottom of each story, there's five stories in an email, you can click off and read that story online. And that's not so you can read it online, but it's mostly so people want to share that story with their friends they can. And so when that happens, we get a little bit of search love, and we get people linking to us, which is builds our domain reputation and our domain authority. And we get, we call it like a side door. So it gets a lot of side door traffic that ends up becoming subscribers. Okay,

Robert Plank 17:17 I got just so, if I'm understanding you, right, so you have these newsletters, and they do live on the web, but someone could just open up their email and then read the whole message right there in email. It's not like a lot of these, where there's a little excerpt and they have to click over. They can read the entire thing in the email message if they want, but then also they can also find the web page to share it, right?

Sam Parr 17:43 Yeah. So our thesis, or, you know, our hypothesis, is basically that all content should be native, and so you shouldn't have to click off to read something, and so everything is within the email that you need to consume. But let's say that's something that you and your girlfriend were talking about. How you think Facebook ads. Whenever you say something like, Facebook is listening to you, and an ad shows and then they show you an ad, and you and your girlfriend were just talking about how that's crazy, that that happens, and then the hustle just happened to write about it. Then you can just like, click that link and send to your girlfriend and be like, Oh, hey, look. Remember when we were talking about this and that crazy? The Hustle just mentioned it, or something like that. You know what? I mean? That's like a use case. And then they would share that amongst their friends, or they would share in a Facebook group and say, like, Hey, everyone. Remember when we were talking about this? The Hustle just covered it, and that would end up, that little story would end up getting traffic, and those viewers would become subscribe subscribers, right?

Robert Plank 18:35 And so sort of along those lines, are you planning on doing any, any kind of personalization, like giving people the ability to maybe, like, customize a newsletter, or based on what they click like, give them more or less a certain type of content. Or is the plan moving forward, just like one size fits all?

Sam Parr 18:53 Well, actually, you know, a lot of people think that number one is the way to go. I think one size fits all is the way to go. Because, you know, when you think about some of the greatest some of the culture changing personalities or content companies or people out there in the world, like, for example, Oprah, she what they would do is, anytime they talk about something, it like changes culture, because everyone knows about it. And what I loved about Oprah was that when she mentioned a book, regardless if I'm into Nicholas Sparks, I know what Nicholas Sparks is, because even though I wasn't interested in romance novels or like a self help like book for like middle aged women, I love Oprah, and because Oprah talked about it, I now know about that, and that has just made Nicholas Sparks, whatever she talks about, like a huge thing, and that is really interesting to me, which is that a brand can mention something and everyone knows about it, as opposed to incredibly personalized stuff. I think that when it's really personalized, it can help with discovery, but in one sense, it actually hurts it, because you're only getting. Things that fit your current world view or your current interests,

Robert Plank 20:03 right? Yeah. And it seems like a way to sort of split the focus. And so if the brand is you guys, and then what you recommend changes over time, then people come to you for those recommendations. Makes a lot of sense,

Sam Parr 20:16 yeah. So when you have personalization stuff, you're not exactly a taste maker anymore, or a brand, you're a platform. And I don't think that we, you know, becoming a platform, I don't it's not exactly what our goal is. Our goal is to build a brand and to build a brand, you know, it's not always personalization stuff,

Robert Plank 20:32 right? Makes perfect sense. So, so something you have me curious about now is, is monetization? So how do you guys monetize? This? Is it like sponsorships or affiliate programs or I mean, how do you make money with this?

Sam Parr 20:45 We make the vast majority we host events, but we make the vast majority of our money from advertising in the email so brands like Red Bull, Microsoft, Salesforce, Airbnb, bonobos, they pay us money in order to have ad placements in the email

Robert Plank 21:00 craziness. So you're living like pretty much every business owners dream, right? Yes, say whatever you want, do whatever you want, and then the ad spots already paid for. So I mean, how the heck did you guys build this up to where it's at? Is that a quick story?

Sam Parr 21:16 Well, you know, we it's, it's kind of been quick. It doesn't feel quick when you're in the trenches day to day. But our company, our product that we're known for, it'll be two years old on the fourth week of April. So April 20 will be two years old. So, you know, like, I had zero media experience and when I started the company, and that has actually helped. And then we hired really smart people who are incredibly talented but had very little experience. And so, you know, a lot of people kind of thought like, you know, you guys are they would tell us, like, Oh, you guys are disrupting this or that. And we're like, Well, that sounds really the goal, just that we don't know what we're doing and we're just doing things that seem right. And that kind of mindset has actually helped us move quite quickly because, because we don't have a lot of like, mental roadblocks holding us back or telling us that we're not allowed to do one thing or the other thing. So when you say we're living the dream, it doesn't necessarily seem like a dream, it just seems how it's supposed to be okay.

Robert Plank 22:18 Well, yeah, thanks for setting me straight, and that still makes a lot of sense. There just that, um, that you guys are doing what you're doing and not getting held back by the baggage of how things have always been done, like the I don't know, like the average I don't know, like the average Joe. Like, stuck in the role of ways would be saying, like, oh, well, go, Go For Facebook, or go for the click bait or email is dying, but you guys are being contrarian, and it seems like it's working really well for you. And so as you were getting this whole thing going, getting it started, have you ever had any sort of sort of doubts, or any difficult situations where you just, like, you're really uncertain and not sure how it was going to work out? Anything like that?

Sam Parr 22:59 Oh, hell yeah. I mean, like, probably, like, 90% of my time it's in my head, I'm like, Oh, this is gonna totally fail. But, like, that's what being an entrepreneur is, is like, you know, like, the creative cycle is, like, I have an idea and then it's like, this idea is horrible, and then I should do it, but it's horrible. And then, like, the majority of the time is like, I'm doing it anyway, but I suck. I suck, I suck, I suck. And you never think that you're good enough. And then finally, there is a little, like, there's a little, like, light at the end of the tunnel, which is like, oh my gosh, people actually kind of enjoy this, but then you go right back to like, oh, I still kind of suck. I need to get better. I need to get better. I need to get better, and I need to get better. So there's constant doubt that we face. We've been fortunate in that our business has been good, and so there's never been a case where we've, like, almost run out of business. But there certainly is, like, tons of fear when you're convincing friends and family to, like, quit their well paying job and move across the country to join you, or someone who's about to get married or have a kid, and you're like, hey, like, come join our company. Like, it's kind of working and but I don't know what the future holds. Like, we could pay you half of what you earn now. You want to take a chance. I mean, that's like, that's like, that's incredibly it causes a ton of fear and doubt.

Robert Plank 24:26 So how do you how do you still win? How do you get past or is it just a matter of doing it despite the fear?

Sam Parr 24:33 Well, it's, it's, that's what it is, doing it despite the fear. But there's a few things that kind of have helped along the way, which is, like, you kind of got to burn the bridges, which means not like, do bad things, but set it up to where, like, you have to go through with this. So, like, if you take investor money, it's like, oh well, like, there's no turning back. You have just committed to a certain path. Or, if you, like, publicly announce that you're going to do something before you back. Actually achieved it, then it's like, oh, like, if you don't do this, you are going to embarrass yourself and look like an idiot, or pre selling something. You know, there's a bunch of ways to like, set it up towards like, the like, if you do not follow through on this, you are you're screwed. And so we've, I've definitely set my life up to where it's like, if I don't execute on this, if I don't go through with something, even though I have a ton of fear. The the the the outcomes are huge, like the like, the the risk, I've set myself up to where it's like, it's very risky, and I have to go through with this, otherwise I'm I'm screwed. But the good news is, is that if you fail spectacularly, like if you try something and it really just fails horribly, but you actually took a big old swing. People kind of admire that. And so the downside is basically, like, you get a high paying job at a company that you're you don't own, or you're not exactly passionate about. And so the downside is actually, when you try to make it into a logical like roadmap, it's like, not that big of a deal. So it's kind of like a paradox, which is like, if I fail, the world is over, but then also if I fail, I'll just make, like, a ton of money working at Intuit or something, because everyone will have known that I started a company and failed, and surely they'll want to give me they'll want to give me a good paying job. You know what? I mean, yeah,

Robert Plank 26:25 yeah. Like, by looking at the big picture, you get that perspective. And it's really easy to say, Oh, well, if, if this company fails, and my life is over, well, you'll have a little bit of a setback, but you'll keep on living. You move, move into the next thing. And, I mean, I always love the stories. Like, like there was something like, of Elon Musk, like, he's like, I tried this company, tried this company tried, like, five or six different total failures, and then the next thing was PayPal. Or even, like, imagine if, if Mark Zuckerberg took 10 years to make Facebook, if he'd started in 2004 didn't even finish it till 2014 I mean, he would have been too late, right? Someone else would have beat him to the punch. So there's something to be said about about using that, that fear and and, like you said, burning the bridges and then getting to the failure quickly. Because the alternative is just kind of, kind of farting around, not really getting anywhere, and then wasting your whole life. Who wants to do that adventure? Sounds like more fun to me. I don't know about you,

Sam Parr 27:22 yeah, but, and also, like, the fact is, is that stuff takes a long time. Like musk and Zuckerberg totally pulled off what they pulled off in a in less than a decade, less than half a decade. And that's phenomenal. And that certainly happens sometimes. But like, it takes a ton, like success for most people, it takes decades. And I think that it's important to acknowledge that that for even the people who are billionaires, like even amongst like the 2500 billionaires that exist in the world, the people who have made it in less than a decade are the exception amongst billionaires. So even amongst these successful people, it takes a ton of time to get something done, and I think that's important to acknowledge. And so yeah, that kind of like helps is like knowing that. But then the other thing that I think is interesting is that, like, even things that, like, financially, I'm in a good place, right? Like, I don't, I'm not really like fear that much, because I've started and told companies before, but even though I've had that mild bit of success, like I was just talking to my coworker about this, like, in the backup, like, I have set aside $400 that I can buy a plane ticket so I can move back to Missouri in with my parents, like, I still plan for that. Like, in case, in case, everything fails. So it's kind of funny how even though you can have success, you still fear failure.

Robert Plank 28:46 Yeah, yeah. I mean, you're, you, uh, you're still hungry. You're you're you didn't get to, like, fat and bloated with the success. You still remember your roots. You still know that you still it sounds like you're still grateful. You know that it could all come crashing down at any time, but that maybe keeps you focused, keeps you creating a good product, keeps you managing your team. It's like all those things sort of help you be the person you need to be.

Sam Parr 29:13 Yeah, definitely. I agree with everything you've said. It, it, it. I think maybe it's a Midwestern thing. I'm from Missouri, and I live in San Francisco, so it's definitely like, I guess this is like a oxymoron to brag about, but we, I think there's a huge sense of humbleness with coming from the Midwest, coming from the midwest of like, basically, what you've built is neat, and you should be proud, but at any time, it's gonna crash and burn. So be thankful for what you got

Robert Plank 29:48 right good advice. And what I'm hearing a lot of just in our conversation here today was that there's a lot of like we shouldn't doubt ourselves very much, and we're kind of all in this together. And it seems like everyone successful has the uncertainty, has the setbacks, the struggles, all these things. And so maybe it's easy to look at, it's either to look at like the outliers, or even people who you know eventually made it after a couple decades, and say, oh geez. Well, they have it so easy. Well, you're looking at what they built up to now. You haven't seen the struggles that they've had to gone go through day to day. So I mean this, this has all been great advice and and it sounds like when people join the hustle newsletter, they'll get similar sort of stuff. They'll get, like, all the all the news that we all need to know as startups and entrepreneurs and things like that. So can you tell us about where to sign up for this, this email newsletter, and any other websites or resources you want to mention would be great

Sam Parr 30:47 too. Yeah, Google the hustle, and we'll come up or go to the hustle. Dot CEO, but if you Google the hustle, will be number one. I also think that if you want to learn more about this, one of my favorite websites is Digiday. I read them a lot. I also, we also host some world class events. So we've got events. One event that I particularly love called 2x it's a event that we host in San Francisco, Austin, LA, New York, and a couple other cities. And it's all about what it's like to succeed in the world of tech from a women's woman's point of view. And I really, really love that event. And they're quite popular. So if you are interested in some more inspiring stuff, particularly if you're a woman, this is a very popular event that I like. So you can Google the hustle, and then 2x and then what else do I like to read? And, I love reading Quora, where I where I love going to Quora and reading stories about failure, because people who I, who I admire, who struggle or went through failure, it's been a bit that's been a big inspiration for me, that and helped put things in perspective that even my heroes, who seem to be crushing it on the outside still struggle, just like everyone else. Well,

Robert Plank 32:06 super, great. Yeah, and I like stories like that too. It's almost like a, like a reverse Chicken Soup for the Soul kind of thing where you're like, well, like, I thought I had it bad. This person had it way worse, and they came out of it even better. So things aren't as hopeless, and it gives sort of that inspiration the trail to follow all kinds of great stuff like that. So once again, the hustle.co, Digiday, and then that 2x event, and then Quora. So make sure that everyone check that out. And most importantly, make sure to go to the hustle.co, or even better, Google search the hustle and go to the number one result, go there, sign up for that list and then be checking your inbox every day at 9am so is that weekdays only, or seven days a week? As

Sam Parr 32:51 of today, it's Monday through Friday, but we're adding in some weekend stuff. Ooh,

Robert Plank 32:55 exciting, exciting things ahead. So make sure that you join now, so that way you can say that you were a member of the hustle before they added all the cool weekend stuff. And who knows where you guys will be in 510, 20 years from now. So exciting stuff the hustle.co. And thanks Sam, for stopping by and sharing all these really cool like inside secrets and life lessons and everything that comes along with that. I appreciate it wonderful.

Sam Parr 33:20 Thanks for doing this.

Robert Plank 33:21 Want to listen to more fantastic marketers of the day. Subscribe to us at marketer of the day.com/itunes and browse past episodes at marketer of the day.com you.