867: Develop your Next Big Business Idea to Change the World with Bryan Mattimore

Speaker 1 0:00 a marketer of the Day episode 867 Develop your next big business idea to change the world with Brian Metamora.

Robert Plank 0:12 Hey, welcome back to the marketer of the day podcast. We're here with Brian Macklemore from growth dash engine.com. And Brian has a really important question for you. And that's what is your big idea? And what what actions are you going to take to develop your big idea in the next 21 days? And is your big idea going to sit in that graveyard of all the big ideas you've had and never implemented? Or are you going to grow this into the business that you know, you should build that can change your life. So we're here with Brian, who is the co founder of the 20 year old growth engine Innovation Agency, he has written three books, including ideas Stormers and 21 days to a big idea. He's facilitated over 1000 ideation sessions, 200 Successful innovation projects leading to $3 billion in new products and services. He's an innovation instructor at Caltech, he is the guy to talk to you to listen to, if we want to develop our big idea. So Brian, glad to be talking to you.

Speaker 3 1:08 Yeah. Thanks, Robert. So I was intrigued by your question, you know, what do you do with your big idea? In some ways, my work is to help people get that big idea. You know, people will have small ideas, and they say, Oh, my gosh, how do we get a big idea? And so I spent really my life, pioneering ideation and innovation processes to help people both get those big ideas. And then to your point, once they have those big ideas, what do they do with them?

Robert Plank 1:34 And maybe this is getting the cart before the horse. But have you heard an idea that's like, so cool, and so big? And we're just like the most the biggest the best idea you ever come across? Is that a thing?

Speaker 3 1:49 Well, you know, this gets this gets to the notion of, if you will, disruptive innovation versus innovation that creates huge businesses, but there's not necessarily disruptive right. And so to create a new iPhone, you know, that that can be pretty disruptive, to create a new Chips Ahoy cookie, as we have done, it seems easy, but it frankly isn't, you know, and so when we did the brownie chips of like, cookie, that's a very simple idea, but it went to $100 million business. So is that a huge idea? No, it's not going to really change the world. But it created a whole new platform, a whole new Cookie platform for Mondelez at the time, so we, you know, we hit a lot of singles and doubles, and triples, and occasionally, the singles and drug doubles, or total will turn into homeruns. You know, I didn't really answer your question. I'm skirting it a little bit. Because in these times, I think you probably have to be LinkedIn to some very sophisticated new technologies to create the truly disruptive innovation.

Robert Plank 3:05 And that's interesting to think about that your big idea to be successful to to be something that goes somewhere, it does not have to be disruptive, right? It does not have to be the iPhone, it can be the brownie Chips Ahoy cookie.

Speaker 3 3:19 Yeah, and in fact, you know, it's interesting, the word disruptive, you know, it's typically applied against disrupting the marketplace. But if you have an organization to do something that's disruptive, it will also disrupt your organization, because you may have to come up with a new brand, a new distribution channel, a new technology, right? A new package, a new positioning, etc, etc. And all of that is very hard. Now, one of the appeals of disruption is that you can get higher margins if you're first, you know, first mover advantage, first to market, right? And we've had clients who said, Yeah, we want disruptive technology. And then they say, Yeah, but we want under the current brands under the current distribution center, our current Salesforce, and that he or she has to say, Well, okay, you know, but, but but that's not really going to be disruptive. Right?

Robert Plank 4:07 Right. And that's, it's interesting that you put it that way, because it's like, they want the upside of the disruption without the downside of the the growing pains of throwing something out to create something else. They just want all the benefit without the work.

Speaker 3 4:22 Yeah, you're that is you nailed it. That's absolutely true. Because Because disruptions doing disruptive stuff is really hard. Right? And, you know, even you know, frankly, when we and I'm giving a lot of CPG examples here because they're fun new products, but when we did you know the the hearty grains, wine for Thomas's English muffin, right, which was essentially putting, you know, more wheat in an English muffin to make it healthier. And it became a huge, huge success represented 30% of their business, new platforms, new new people come you know, younger consumers come into the business. Well, initially when they brought that to the board The board said, Whoa, I don't know, you know, we do white English muffins, not brown English muffins. And so, so for them. I mean, that was, that was a big deal because they had 100 years of doing white English muffins. And the general manager was so passionate, he had seen how passionate the consumers were in the focus groups pushed it through, and it became the product to the year and led to huge margins and, and profitability for the organization. And by the way, that was somewhat disruptive in that figuring out how to get that higher week content, and still keep the nooks and crannies was not easy. The research food scientist initially didn't think they could do it. But of course they did.

Robert Plank 5:43 And I love those little problems that it's almost like you create them for yourself, and then you solve them. And then everyone else is thinking, like how the heck does even make that work like in because like, sometimes I do like, like computer programming and create software and things like that. And sometimes I'm trying to make a load in this amount of time, or to be this small amount of file size, or to like get this thing to work like this quickly. And I'm just like, feel like, Man, I am the one that created this problem. But then once it gets past the finish line, people are going to wonder like, how the heck did you do that? Kind of like, how do they make the weak content like that? And how do they make it even work?

Speaker 3 6:23 Yeah, and, and, you know, so we, we run into those, quote problems that are created all the time, we have all kinds of different techniques, we use problem redefinition, we worked with one company, how do we sell more life insurance to Catholics? Okay, you know, that's, that's a weird problem. But that was their business. And there's a technical problem, the definition, you redefine the way you redefine the verb sell, and you redefine Catholics, you do this sort of Chinese menu combination thing. And you come up with all kinds of new problems, right? So how do we get, you know, the board of directors to give away life insurance to parochial schools that have Catholics and, and so you redefine the problem, you're giving yourself problems, literally 1000s of problems. And then you come up with ideas to address those. The other thing I would say about these problems, sometimes we create impossible problems for ourselves. And I see, and I see, you know, middle managers like we work with the city of New York and state of New York, you know, they're in bureaucracies, it gets tough, right? And they are in impossible situations at times, well, we have to, you know, perform this with what we're, you know, not the same number of people, we don't have the budget, and it is an impossible challenge, frankly. And when you're in that state, then the technique that works best is questioning assumptions. So you go back, and you question all those assumptions you've made, there's also a problem called 20. Questions, technique, and that and all those kind of work to reframing how you think about your your challenge. So so you can get yourself in a software box that you may not be able to get out of? And if you're a software development box, and if you do, then I would recommend you question the assumptions.

Robert Plank 8:13 And it seems like what you've described so far is that maybe there's like a toolbox of different techniques, such as you said, like redefining the problem and questioning the assumption, so that maybe you have this problem. And you're you're stuck on it, because he's been looking straight at it. And you've just been going at it with this one pattern of logic. And you say, well, here's this, here's this other ways to attack it from the side. And maybe one of these other tools will get you what you want.

Speaker 3 8:38 You nailed it again, you know, we have four classes of ideation techniques we use. And by the way, if the listener takes anything out of this thing, it's I wrote an article recently for Forbes, it's why When will you start brainstorming and start ideating, right, because brainstorming is shown not to work ideation, which is what we specialize in. There are four classes of teaching techniques, we've identified questioning techniques, which we just talked about metaphorical techniques, of visual techniques, and fantasy techniques. And all of those trigger different parts of the brain. So if the question assumptions doesn't work, then you go to semantic actuation. If that doesn't work, you know, then you go to the trees triggers, if that doesn't work, you go to worst idea, silly idea. And if you bang around with all these in your toolkit to use your word, Robert, you will, you will get there, right, you will, and getting there maybe frankly, just redefining your challenge. You went in with one way you thought of it, and now you're thinking of in an entirely different way.

Robert Plank 9:41 And you know, when you describe some of that, like, you know, it's we're just talking about a really high level. So I didn't really quite get each of those four categories. But it seems to me from what little I picked up from it. It's like they talked about the four types of creativity, right? There's like the deliberate cognitive and the deliberate, spontaneous and there's like the four or quadrants. And it's almost like almost any problem solving kind of fits into that, right? Like, there's the there's the straightforward way of going about it. And then there's on the like, the diagonal to the diagram, there's like the magical kind of undefined, sometimes you look into it. And then there's kind of the off to the side approaches, like, basically, one's kind of the past and one sort of the future. And, and it seems like, anytime I'm stuck, I kind of think in one of those four boxes. And if I'm completely stuck, I'm thinking, well, what are the four boxes? Right? If I'm not even sure at all, if I'm like, Well, I don't even know which problem solving technique to use. I'm like, what if there were four categories? What would they be? And then I kind of begin to get on the path of like, okay, what questions should I be asking? But even speaking with you, it seems like if we're stuck, it might even just be we don't even know. Like, we don't even know the answer. But we don't even know the question. It's like, it's almost like you have to take a step or two back and be like, Okay, what's even the question in the first place?

Speaker 3 10:59 Well, you're absolutely correct. I mean, we had a client come to us and say, Can you help us invent new irons, you know, irons to iron your clothes? And we said, yeah, we can help you with that. But that's the last question we want to address. And they're like, Well, what are you talking about? I said, Well, we have to redefine that challenge, because you have so many assumptions about what an iron is, right? You know, it's got the metal plate, it's got the holes. And so we went into that challenge. We reframed it as how do you create a new anti wrinkle device? Right? So we're focused on the benefit, not the feature or the mechanism, right? And we actually went in with a broader definition even than that it was how do we create new garment care devices. And I know from experience that if we had gone in, let's say, let's invent a new Iron, our ideas would have been much closer. And because all the assumptions you make, again, this gets back to questioning assumptions about how you, you go about doing that. So you're absolutely right, you can, you can actually go down a certain path with a certain problem definition. But you need to be flexible, that you may want to redefine that definition, as you come up with ideas and learn more, and understand that it's really the breakthrough insight may be the process to your point, Robert, that you come up with to solve it and the redefinition of that problem?

Robert Plank 12:19 And do you ever have difficulties with you know, you have these clients, you have these these big brands? And maybe they've been stuck in doing the same way for the past 120 years? And you say, well, you're telling me to fix this problem. But really, the problem is completely different. Do you come across any kind of kind of resistance where they say, well, this isn't what we asked you, this isn't what we want to pay you to change for us?

Speaker 3 12:45 We do? Absolutely. But the some of the tricks are if you involve people early in the process, and so that they start coming up with ideas themselves. I mean, we're there. I mean, yeah, we get ideas. But we don't do that today, we don't go and say, you know, we're God, and you're not, here's the breakthrough idea. No, we first we force their teams to be involved in this process. So that when some of these breakthrough ideas occur, number one, I may have helped them get there, but I want them to take credit for it. And then that's the only way that thing, frankly, I shouldn't say the only way, but that's the way it's going to happen. If you're going to innovate successfully, which is hard, you know, the resistance, you know, in the organization, you need people to be passionate about it, and you want them to be been part of the process, creating it. And so that's a key for successful innovation teams to get as many of the are, you know, the you get the finance guy in there, right? You get the IT guy in there, because they all then have ownership. And they can then go to the board and say, Now, we've heard consumers, they love this, we got to go do this. Because because they were part of the process. But you're absolutely right. There's resistance every step of the way, is an innovator, right? And, you know, and the resistance is not bad. It's just it's the nature of an organization to try to be more efficient. And whereas innovation is generally pretty inefficient, right? So it's this, you know, eternal struggle. But but you got to do both, you got to do both.

Robert Plank 14:19 And what I'm hearing from your answer there is is how important it is to sort of work that the salesmanship into your idea and whatever context that means, and in this case, it might be like you said, involve the finance guy and follow this person in early and almost make them think that that they came to the conclusion and it seems like that's a seems like a huge problem, right of having a really good idea, something that really should be done, but just not setting the building blocks in place in the right order. So that way you have like the strategy or like the storytelling or breaking down the objection so that way people will be open to your idea because I mean, you probably know better than anybody if you have That's really good idea and but you present it improperly or you you're too forceful with it, then no one wants to do it. So I'm I'm hearing from you like how important it is to have like that that massaging and that that nuance in order to sell the idea itself.

Speaker 3 15:14 Absolutely, I mean, we're talking about innovation versus ideation here, right, the process of bringing it to market. And, you know, my dad had started a company, under the auspices of time Incorporated, became the second largest research firm in the nation. He but he got the eureka moment in a flash, and it took them seven years to get the board to, you know, put, actually, they, they, they, they, they have a lot of the money after three years, the $10 million to go do this thing. And then it was another four years before this thing came became profitable. So the innovation, it was being creative at every step of the way. So you're absolutely right, a big part of successful innovators. My business partner did mentioned in toothpaste, you know, when he went to the board and got the $10 million to build the plant for that he had had meetings with every member of the board a month before that board meeting to answer any questions they might have, because and address those before they got to the meeting. So that wouldn't be a yay or nay it was kind of like everybody was on board by that. But but the point was that yes, salesmanship of your ideas is, frankly, as or more important than the first eureka moment, right? It's, and it's all that and you can use all these techniques are in my book, not only to come up with the big idea, but to come up with how you innovate that idea, solve the hundreds, if not 1000s of challenges, you're going to have to bring that idea to market.

Robert Plank 16:42 And I like that a lot. But there sure there for sure is the art side of the idea and of plucking out those solutions. But then it seems like there's the science aspect of the coin as well, where you're like, well, we also need to be organized. And we also need to have somewhat of a timeline, we have to plan ahead. And we have to maybe try to anticipate the challenges that we'll have or budget this money or this time in order to kind of navigate this treacherous path of getting to where you need to know where you need to go. So I'm hearing like, there's the salesmanship that's required, but also kind of being organized. And so you're mentioning that this book. And so does this book have any sort of like a, like a catastrophic failure, because we're talking about big ideas and big risks, but when when the whole entire thing completely burns to the ground? That's exciting, right when the nuclear bomb goes off, like that's what we want to hear about that sort of drama. So does the book have any like total complete disaster in it at some point?

Speaker 3 17:40 Well, there's several books. One is ideas Stormers, which is really hard to get people to come up with, with new ideas. And yeah, there have been failures. I mean, our success rates in packaged goods marketing is about 70%, which is extraordinary, you know, the, you know, the success rates are typically maybe 10%. And by the way, we haven't really talked about it, but the key to the success rates is being iterative. So you get ideas, build, and build and build and build them, build them with consumer insights, and consume and presenting them to consumers and getting their input. And you do that enough. And sooner or later, you're going to get the price the package all that those elements will come together successfully. But you know, there was we had one product we worked on again, I'll just use a food example. Because it's so approachable. It was it was for Thomas's and it was bagel holes, right. And it was such a cool idea. We had an and shapes of footballs, baseballs and basketballs. And, you know, for young kids, and when we did the research on this, it was unbelievable. We had people, you know, crawling under the table, crapped my leg, you know, get get get they because they were delicious. And the wonderful. The problem with that was we couldn't get the price value equation, right? Because mom didn't want to spend four bucks on something that kid's going to eat, you know, in one sitting. And, and so that was a, quote, failure in the marketplace. And we, you know, to be honest, we tried to get them not to watch it until we figured that out. But but, you know, their, their internal politics. And I can mention this now, because, you know, we've had tremendous success in other arenas. But, you know, yeah, they're failures, and you just, you know, wick your wounds and moved on. We had one a corn English muffin. We tested it tested through the roof. It failed, because the lab samples were different than the produce samples. We went back two years later, and then it became a big success. So I don't know, I don't know if that's a catastrophic failure. That's not $100 million failure. And by the way, that's a key thing here is you try to fail quick and easy and simple, right? You know, and get the learning along the way. And by the way, one just tip for people who want to test their products. I'm use ugly prototypes, right? And what do I mean by that? We were doing a project for Dr. Scholl's. And they said, Oh, we can 3d print these things. And that looks so cool and all the rest. And we said, no, no, we want ugly, we're going to use duct tape and cardboard. And why would we do that when you can have these really cool finished samples? It's because if it's too finished, consumers will say yeah, like red versus blue, versus saying, well, that thing doesn't look like it would fit my foot very well. Or how can you make it more oval? Or where's the air coming in? They The point is with ugly prototypes, which are cheaper and quicker to make anyway, you can you're gonna want more of learning, which is what it's all about at these early stages the warmup.

Robert Plank 20:43 And that's interesting to think about that you're you want to like, what's the point of it, right of making the prototype? It's not necessarily to say, Okay, well, let's use it as is, but figure out okay, what areas can we improve? And so, so yeah, these are some really cool things to think about. And especially that hole, it's for sure, a cliche to iterate through failure, right, that you always hear about, you know, this bait, this famous baseball player, they strike out this number of times, and, you know, Steve Jobs fail all this, but I like how you said how to fail, it was something like quick, simple and easy, easy, or quick or early or something like that. So that way, fail early. So that way, you get the bugs out when you're just at this small scale, and you're not six months in and, and also that, it's like, instead of hoping that everything will ride on just this one attempt, you say, well, I expect to fail way more times, and I succeed, but I only need to succeed once or a handful of times in order to get to where I need to go. And then like you said, it's also fun to focus on maybe that outside the box niches to think about, like how this is working in the food industry, because it's so easy to get stuck in your own vertical, right? If you're just in like automotive, you think about other automotive stuff. But if you thought about how this other industry went, you might even get some new outside the box ideas.

Speaker 3 22:07 Absolutely, you know, if you can mash up, you know, it's called biomimetics biology with the design of your car and take inspiration from nature, you're gonna get a breakthrough idea. By the way. The other thing I want to say, Robert, is all this stuff, we've talked a lot about new products, but our work the ideation processes can be used for anything can be used for kind of with new sales ideas, cost cutting ideas, new, we've done mission vision and values work, you know, and on and on and on. Supply chain work, you know, if anytime there's a problem or a challenge, or we think of as an opportunity, you can use these techniques and processes to get new ideas. Right. And, and people you know, the point is, this is really inexpensive ways to to reinvent your organization. And to make it much more profitable, you know, you got a problem, you know, you invite your co workers for pizza over an hour, you do a silly idea technique or worst idea technique. And all of a sudden, you got a breakthrough idea, what's that worth? Right? It could be worth a lot. So I'm a big proponent and Evangelist, obviously, for companies learning. And now a lot of our work now is frankly, training companies in their teams how to be more creative to learn these processes, so they can use them on an ongoing basis. And frankly, don't have to call us did show up, you know, every month to help them with this

Robert Plank 23:34 stuff, right? Yeah, so I think you're onto something. And I think that this is kind of exciting, especially just breaking the mold breaking those old tired patterns of things have been done this way for decades and figuring out new solutions. And even as you were kind of explaining that, you know, you could fix this little problem, that little problem there's that concept of like if you fixed this 26% And this 26% Then all of your slight improvements within compound and then the whole business would be like completely unrecognizable because you fix this in the supply chain, you fix this in the marketing you fix this in the product development and then all those little things add up so there's there's more than one way one way to solve a problem. And maybe we just been so stuck in our thinking or stuck in the way things when done with our team. And so in a moment we want to make sure to mention your books and your websites or Brian but in the tail end of our conversation here. Do you have like a number one secret or do you have like a best idea? That's good is like super cool. But then so many people are missing out on anything come to mind there.

Speaker 3 24:40 Yeah, there. I'll just do two quickly one is the and technique. So I wrote it in my book ideas Stormers, I had asked to talk to the fiasco, florists, flower associate in Colombia, and I came up with 50 ideas on how to market for new flowers. And the key there was just mash up flowers. ours or whatever industry you're in with other industries or and you alluded to this before, so flowers, plus sports, okay? We get, you know, the Mets, you know, corsage or whatever, or flowers plus religion, okay, we've got to think for the saints, right? But you know, so it's a mash up of this plus that will equal a new thing. So How simple is that, right? I mean, that's incredibly simple. So just mash up your world with another world, if you're in the hospitals, and you want to reinvent a hospital, mash it up with a hotel, and all of a sudden, you'll get new ideas, right. So that's one technique. And the other one that's really, really fun and really easy is this takes the pressure off, is to come up with not good ideas with bad ideas. We call it the worst idea technique or the silly idea technique, we were helping the ASPCA. Get New Yorkers to adopt ex drug dealer pitbulls? I mean, give me a break, right. And so the silly idea technique we use there was, you know, dressed them up in costumes, and, and, and take, you know, have virtual adoptions where you have set up cameras, and then, et cetera, et cetera. And all of these were quite successful led to the national campaign, championing the personality of the dog. So that was a successful campaign. But but the technique is really simple, you just come up with a lot of bad ideas. And then you say, as bad as this idea is, is there any way I can do the opposite, or take something crazy out of it and turn it into a good idea, so throw up suit, well, maybe it's a suit for hospital patients, or, you know, slime soup, right? For kids or soup with body parts in it, right? This becomes, you know, zombie soup, et cetera, et cetera. And so those are the two techniques that are just really easy and fun to use the N technique. And this is in the book ideas, tumors, also 21 days to big idea, but also the worst idea technique, or the silly idea technique.

Robert Plank 26:52 I like that a lot. But by listing those bad ideas, something might jump out at you. And you have to wonder if a lot of these innovations came about that way. Like even you think about your your phone has no power button, right? Or has no keyboard and a few like a decade ago, that would have been crazy talk or like, my, I can't remember the last time I had a TV that actually had an off button. So just some of these weird things like you wonder if someone listed all these things and said, you know, maybe you're on to you can't take the battery out of your phone anymore, because maybe we just decided that you don't need to, and then that gives us some hidden benefits advantages to doing it. So my my mind has been blown here. Well,

Speaker 3 27:33 and one of the really powerful things is to say what can we limit to what we're doing to create something new? So what's Twitter? I mean, that's an idea to limit the number of characters, right. I'm just curious and quirky podcasts for for Cal Tech, I talked about, you know, the power of limiting yourself, right? Add constraints, you know, how about that movie? The one where they didn't have sound on it? Right? The you know, with the I've forgotten that anyway, but the planning place? What's that?

Robert Plank 28:01 Yeah, a quiet place?

Speaker 3 28:02 Yeah, likely, you know, let's limit this out or clubhouse, right. We're not going to use video, we're just going to use sound in this case, et cetera, et cetera. So that's a very interesting strategy that you're alluding to, as well, Robert.

Robert Plank 28:14 Yeah. TED talk is, what? 1718 minutes, there's only so many things you can fit into it. And you have to really make it count. So yeah, but the limitations, the restrictions might then give you something that you would not have come across otherwise. And speaking

Speaker 3 28:27 of freeing, yes. And yeah. My TEDx talk, if anybody's interested, where I go into some 80 minutes of detail on this is called solving impossible challenges isn't

Robert Plank 28:38 fantastic. So so we will make sure to give a link to that TEDx talk on the show notes. And in the meantime, Google Search Brian matter, more TEDx. And that way we can to find find your TED talk on that. And as far as getting to your website, and your books and all that, what are the resources? What are the links? Where do we go?

Speaker 3 28:59 Well, thank you. So growth dash engine.com is the website. You know, the newest book is 21 Days to a big idea. I have another book coming out this year on centers of titans of invention on innovation centers. And the master work is ideas Stormers, how to lead and inspire creative breakthroughs. And also all our training work now is, is if anybody's interested in creativity and ideation and innovation training, we've created courses around that as well. So the easy way is just to go on our website or email they can email me you know, be madam more growth dash engine.com

Robert Plank 29:36 Fantastic. And to repeat that be much more at growth dash engine.com. And the website is growth that dash engine.com And even just exploring some of these ideas, it feels like I remember having like a school assignment, Brian and being like, Oh, I've got to write this paper, but I could go off and do this kind of fun thing, this fun activity off to the side. This can be that fun activity, right if we're if we're done laying that that business activity that we know we need to do, or we need to do research on that maybe we can take a break, and go and have fun and explore some fun and playful ideas and come up with something that we would not have come up with. If we were just doing the same old day in and day out thinking you always hear about how some huge percentage of your thoughts like 98% of your thoughts are just the same ones on repeat. I mean, what additional existence right so it's time to break the chains and come up with something new and go to growth dash engine.com Go there, you'll be glad you did. You can find out about everything Brian has going on, including his books and more. Any final parting words of advice before we wrap up here, Brian?

Speaker 3 30:40 No, I just want to thank you, Robert, for having me on. And I do think that the last thing I would say is that, you know, we're in the talent wars, right, and talent is one right. And we've discovered through a lot of the work that we've done is that if you can create an environment where people are allowed and encouraged to be creative, you will find a that it's more fun, B that you're probably going to be a lot more profitable and grow more rapidly. But also frankly, you're going to retain and attract new talent because people want to work for an organization that is dynamically creative. And so I think it's incumbent on all of us frankly, to to encourage this kind of creativity I know from our work that's true, especially if you want to attract the best and brightest your organization.

Robert Plank 31:31 I love it it's just there's so many hidden benefits and it just increases from their upward spiral so growth that engine growth dash engine is the place to go and thank you Brian for stopping by blowing my mind blowing our audience's mind now we can think in a completely different way.

Unknown Speaker 31:47 Thank you, Robert. It's a lot of fun. Thank you.

Robert Plank 31:52 Thank you for tuning in to the marketer of the day podcast. marketer of the day is managed by dF why podcast clean your 12 podcast boosters at Def Why podcast.com/free